Indiecast - The Indiecasties Part 1

Episode Date: December 11, 2020

Just like everyone, as the year winds down, Steven and Ian are getting reflective. But rather than just continue breaking down the best of 2020 in a standard list form, they are launching the official Indiecast awards show, The Indiecasties. Across two episodes, the duo will be awarding the highly sought-after Indiecasties to the best, worst, and downright strangest releases of the year.This week brings the first of two installments of the award show, and Hyden and Cohen are waiting and ready to bestow some trophies. assigning the most “Indiecast-as-a-genre” album or artist of 2020, Hyden’s favorite “Ian Cohen-core” album and Cohen’s favorite “Steven Hyden-core” album, as well as the year’s most annoying album cycle, and most memory-holed album.In this week’s Recommendation Corner, Hyden has been enjoying Open Door Policy, the forthcoming new album from The Hold Steady. Cohen has been listening to a lot of Ogbert The Nerd.Subscribe to the newsletter for weekly music recommendations in your inbox and follow the official Topsify playlist.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we're going to be looking back at 2020 with the first installment of our award show, The Indycasties. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host, Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you?

Before we get into the Indycastes, I want to bring in just a little bit of wisdom. I do have a real job, like a real life job. And I want to be able to share some in real life wisdom that I've gained at that job. So there's a phrase that you'll hear often when you're working with people in any form of recovery, which is pause when agitated. It's, you know, like everything else in this realm, it's a cliche, but it's true. And what it reminds people is to give themselves a little space between the agitating thought or impulse. over which they have no control and the action, the problematic behavior over which they do have control.

It's why you'll see sometimes people have like pause tattoos on their wrists. You know, that works for people, whether they're trying to recover from drug or alcohol addiction or shopping or eating disorders or, and I also find that it. This is very heavy, Ian. This is a very heavy introduction. I'm curious where you're going with this. It also works if like your problematic behaviors are. or not any of the things I mentioned, but being on Twitter.

And so I am glad that we have this episode today because when the first thing you'll wake up to after weeks of criticism about like hegemony and pop music and how all the year-end lists are the same and stand culture, when the first thing you wake up to is the announcement of a new Taylor Swift record. these are the times which I have to remind myself to pause when agitated and to not say or do anything on Twitter that may, I don't know, cause my car to end up on cinder blocks or angry calls to come into my work. So I get to bring. But by saying that you need to pause, but by saying you need to pause, you are in effect saying volumes, I feel like. because it's pretty clear that you've been triggered by the news of a new Taylor Swift record.

I assume that you're more triggered by anticipating the discourse than the actual record. I have absolutely no problem with the, and we'll get into this a little bit during one of our categories, but it's not, it's never just the album. It's always the discourse. And I mean, yeah, in a weird way, it's like, oh, cool, we have something to talk about during a time where the year end lists all came out. And now, like, what the heck are we supposed to do until, like, you know, mid-January where we start getting new music in earnest? But, yeah, it's just like, man, people are bored and this is like, this is just sucking up all the oxygen.

So, well, you know, I'll say, like, for me, like, I was on vacation when folklore dropped. So I didn't write about that record. It's the first Taylor Swift record I didn't review, I think, since Speak Now. Like, I've somehow written about all of her records for the most part. So I think I'm reviewing this new one, which is called Evermore. So I'm excited, I have to say, to reenter the Taylor Swift discourse, because I was actually in the woods at a cabin when folklore dropped. I was having my own Taylor Swift experience, communing with nature, and, you know, I think I was probably wearing a cardigan sweater or something. when I saw the news of that album.

So I feel like I've been refreshed. It's like I had a sabbatical from the Taylor Swift Wars. Or they're not even a war anymore. I mean, I feel like it's all in agreement. The one thing with Taylor Swift discourse that annoys me sometimes is when people still suggest that she's underrated or that she doesn't get respect from critics. Because I feel like at this point, she is the most universally, like, liked person. I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but like, did you know that 1989 was not reviewed by Pitchfork, but Ryan Adams was?

I don't know if anyone's brought this up, but it's a real delicious new angle to this discourse. Yes, yes. Yeah, and that was back when Pitchfork might be the only major publication that wouldn't review a pop record, which I think at the time was perceived as this, like, you know, indie hipster, superior. attitude toward pop. Now I find that, I feel like most people, even like pop fans would find that kind of refreshing. If there was like a major pub that just didn't review pop records, not out of disrespect to pop records, but just to say like, hey, like everyone else is doing this. We're just going to cover something different. But we don't live in that world. Indicast can't even say that they're doing it because like look at us right now. I know. Yeah, your pause monologue has just

totally gone by the wayside because I sucked to. into a Taylor Swift conversation. Maybe we'll talk about Taylor Swift next week once we hear the record. Yeah, also, by the way, I just got an email that a new Greta Van Fleet video just dropped, so... Yeah.

We might just... I don't know. Either it's going to be the best day in Twitter history or the worst, so there's really no middle ground. I got to say, I'm excited to write about the next Greta Van Fleet record. Oh, I am stoked. I am stoked. I am stoked, man. They're a fun band to write about, and

they played, I think they were on Colbert. this week. I thought their song was okay. I didn't mind the song, I got to say. There's elements of that band that I enjoy. I think the vocals are easily the most irritating part of that band, but I don't know. As a lover of big, dumb rock, Greta Van Fleet, I push some of my buttons. It does not get much bigger, it doesn't get much bigger or dumber than that in 2000.

Absolutely. It's like with that, that incredible Darren Rovell tweet. I feel bad for our country, but it's incredible content, you know? I'm holding out hope that Gretaven Fleet, like, on their third record, makes their tiny music songs from the Vatican gift shop. I feel like they could do that, especially if they got hooked up with, like, the right producer. I'm trying to think of, like, who would be a good producer for Gertivin.

Mark Ronson or something like that. Like, just someone who, like, has the veneer of creed, but also, like, is a songwriter, maybe. Or maybe if they just went totally old school. like when the darkness hired Mut Lang or like Roy Thomas Baker I think like the darkness hired Roy Thomas Baker

They did yes So yeah Gretta Van Fleet if they hired Mut Lang or Roy Thomas Baker I think that could be a pretty cool record Just just go all the way You can't half ass this stuff Or maybe Brendan O'Brien

Get Brendan O'Brien in there Maybe he could That's too too credible Yeah maybe Like we need like We need someone like Or like Jim Steinman. Jim Steinman.

Yes. Like someone who, someone's like super hair metal. Like just get like just get out of this Leds up one thing. Just go full like winger. Go full on. Or like Bob Rock? Get Bob Rock. Yeah.

Yeah. Get Bob Rock in there. It could be good. There we go. We've solved the Greta Van Fleet problem. So, okay, before we get into the Indycastees part of the episode. And by the way, Indycastes, this is something that we're doing. for the first time, obviously, because this is still a relatively new podcast. But it's just going

to be us looking back at 2020. We're going to be doing this this week and next week. Getting beyond the sort of standard, like, what are the best songs of the year? What are the best albums of the year? We came up with, I think, more creative categories. Some of them positive, some of them negative. I think it's kind of fun to talk about negative stuff. I feel like that's discouraged now. People don't really do like worse songs list anymore. But I think it's kind of fun. And it's all in good fun. We're just two idiots. on a podcast. Doesn't really matter what we say anyway. But, so Greta Van Fleet, if you're listening,

I do legitimately like you on some level. We're pulling for you, man. Yeah, we are. We like Big Dun Rock. On here. I really hope you get, I really hope you get like at least a two next time on your before preview. You know, yeah, exactly. I mean, come on.

We don't need to take shots at Greta Van Fleet. They're doing what they're doing. You know, they're in their lane. It's not a very reputable lane. if they executed that formula perfectly, they still wouldn't get a good score from Pitchfork because I don't think Pitchfork would appreciate that kind of band. But I don't know. Anyway, that's for another day, that conversation. Let's go to our mailbag first before we get to the Indycasties. This is a question from Matt, one of our listeners. Thank you, Matt, for writing in.

He says, hey, Stephen Ian, thank you both for all your work over the years. I've been listening, I've been following you both for a while now, and you've had a huge influence on my listening. habits. Thank you for gangs of youth, Steve, and the Hotel Year Ian. Oh, nice. Yes, two pet bands for each of us. The other day I saw you both engage in a Twitter discussion on Queens of the Stone Age prompted by Larry Fitzmaurice's tweet, and I immediately wanted to hear a full episode of you two talking about Queens of the Stone Age. Down that thread, I saw more and more people saying either rated R or the self-titled are the best Queen's record.

But as much as I love those, that seems insane to me when songs for the deaf exist. Are we sleeping on, like clockwork as one of their very best? How do you guys feel about lullabies to paralyze an era of Bulgaris? Albums I have great fondness for, but recognize aren't their best.

What do you think is the legacy of Queens of the Stone Age at this point? So, yeah, we're not going to do a full episode on Queens, but we will talk about them briefly here at the start of our Indy Cassie's episode. I don't know how you feel, Ian, With me in Queens of the Stone Age, I feel like the first three records are clearly head and shoulders above the rest. I like clockwork.

You know, I think Lelibis the Paralyze is a good record. I actually saw a lot of people in that Twitter thread that the listener is referencing say that that was their favorite album, which seems like kind of a contrarian choice to me, but I do like that record a lot. But yeah, for me, it's Songs for the Deaf, number one. probably the self-titled number two and rated R number three, and then the rest in some order. They exist. For me, by the way,

no one mentioned villains, which came out. Like, I recently found out this morning that I reviewed this album for Spin back in 2017. And I, Mark Ronson was producing it. And I don't remember a damn thing about it, except there was one song with like a wah-wah pedal.

Queens of the Stone Age, it's pretty good. It's all right. It exists. And I think I was super into Queens of the Stone Age for a very brief window of time when I was working at Alt Rock Radio 2000, 2002, and I had like some to which I could compare them. When I'm thinking about my favorite Queens of the Stone Age record, it's probably rated R. I think that's the weirdest one, the one where they kind of were in that space where they were really left of center of what like was playing on rock radio. You know, like your food fighters are stained. and when I'm actually listening to Queens of the Stone Age album,

I mean, it's clearly songs for the death. Like that first half of that album is just so insanely peak after peak. I mean, also, it's a way too long record. And then three years later, I just kind of found myself not really caring about Queens of the Stone Age. Like, Lovelby's the Paralyze came out. I may have listened to it once. I can't say I was lacking for time back in those days.

but yeah that narrow vulgaris it's just like yeah i guess like they exist by that point like they had become uh kind of part of the gq rock continuum of like you know it's very um it's very kind of poignant in 2017 and ended up working with mark ronson and like the arctic monkeys and all those bands that like you know kind of remind me of the movie baby driver uh where it's like kind of like real rock and roll like at least kind of iconography or what have you but their legacy is really I don't know what their legacy is because they kind of exist in their own realm like I can't think I think a lot of bands want to occupy that same sort of lane but like if you were to like try to sound like queens of the stone age you would just be it would be

very clear that you were ripping them off um I think they're a band kind of defined by you know the vocals and the guitar tones but like as far as I I I I just... Well, it's funny you bring that up because I feel like Arctic Monkeys, when they put out A.M., which I think that record was produced by Josh Ome. I feel like they kind of like took... Usurped Queens of the Stone Age mojo on that record. And like they took it off. Like, do I want to know is like the most successful Queens of the Stone Age song ever.

That's my Arctic Monkeys. That being said, I mean, 2013, my God is the Sun from Like Clockwork. That song fucking rips, man. But I don't remember anything. Like, they're a band that comes out. it's particularly since Songs for the Deaf and just put out like two or three really like

there could be a great greatest hits record for them post Songs for the Deaf you know and that's yeah I mean I think all their records are are solid after Songs for the Deaf I thought songs for I still think I've said this many times and I believe it's still that Songs for the Deaf is like the best hard rock record of a

21st century like I just in terms of and I actually don't think it's too long I like the whole thing. And I like the interstitial skits on it. I know a lot of people find it irritating. But like, what's the saga? Yeah, that's funny. I like that part.

But I get into it. Because I feel like it's kind of going back to what you were saying about rated R. How about how that record was so much of a departure from like the radio rock of the early aughts? And Songs for the Deaf, I think is pretty clearly making fun of rock radio. Yeah. So I appreciate that aspect of it. There's sort of like a meta quality that like, yeah, we're like the outs. Sider Radio Rock band and were making fun of Radio Rock, but that also was the record.

Obviously, Dave Grohl came into the fold. So they were embraced by Rock Radio, I think finally with that record. And now I feel like they're one of the few, if I can use the word credible bands that could, you know, at least a modicum of airplay on rock radio. Yeah. Like, I mean, like, if I listen to Rock Radio, you know, you're going to hear like tons of chili pepper songs from the odds. It's not just California.

you where that happens? Like, because we get nothing but sublime in red hot chili peppers. That's Midwest, too. It's like chili peppers. It's like disturbs cover of sounds of silence and like, you know, food fighters and maybe you get like an occasional like no one knows sprinkled in there. So that's always good to hear. But yeah, I mean, there are a band that like if I heard today that there was a new Queens

of the Stone Age record coming out, like I would be into it. I would check it out. and I would expect it to be like a B or B plus album. Like I probably wouldn't necessarily anticipate it being totally great. But again, I do feel like they have three great records and I don't think they have any bad records. Like I enjoy every album to varying degrees. So, you know, they're a band that I think, you know, in terms of what their legacy is, I think they have their niche and they're going to continue to have it. you know, Josh had that weird run.

I guess that was like a couple years ago. I guess that was like the villains era. Where it seemed like he kind of cracked up on tour. I think he like kicked a photographer in the face or something. It was like pretty, pretty bad. So hopefully whatever he was going through got over. That's a pretty crappy thing. There's an air of problematicism surrounding that band,

particularly because of Nick Oliveri. But yeah, you know, it just kind of dawned. Queens of the Stone Age, I've kind of just realized they're sort of like deaf tones for GQ readers, you know? Like they're like the rock band that like really did their thing in the early 2000s and continue to be really good. Oh, I'm sure plenty of GQ readers like deaf tones though. I don't know. Like I think Queens of the Stone Age are like Coachella. I think they're for like a lot of people who like go to Coachella and like wear expensive boots and so forth.

Yeah, I think there's plenty of that in the Deftones fan base. I mean, I think you're kidding yourself a little bit. I've been to a deaf tone. I've been to Deaf Tones. Sharp Dress Men. I've been to Def Tones festivals, and I stand by my... I've been to Def Tones festivals and Coachella. I stand by my assessment.

And I'm a Def Tones fans. Well, I mean, the Queens of the Sonnade shows I've been to, it was not a fashion show by any stretch of the imagination. It was a lot of guys wearing dusters at the shows I've been to. But, I don't know. Again, you're in Southern California, so I feel like that just throws everything off a little bit. It's not totally a representative. I'm not saying, you know, Minnesota is, but I think it's a little more like everywhere else than Southern California.

Fine. I could be wrong. You're the real America. You're probably. So let's commence the indie castes portion of the episode. I feel like there should be like a theme or like a introductory dance number. Maybe like there should be like a collaboration between like a younger artist. Like Kid Cuddy and like Dolly Parton should be doing a duet at the beginning of the show.

Kid Cuddy is like one of the, like I reviewed one of his albums in like 2009 or 2010. That is one of the few people who are, his fans are still guaranteed to get at me like every couple of months. Like what do you think about giving men on the moon of four? It's like how stupid do you feel? So I don't think we're going to get Kid Cuddy any time soon. Well, Kid Cuddy has a new album out today. He's getting totally screwed by the Taylor Swift. Him and Jack Harlow, man.

Let's think about the real victims in all this. I don't know if there's like a feud between Taylor Swift and Kidd Cutty, where she was just like, I'm going to kill this guy by dropping. He is a Kanye associate, so if we want to rehash that all over again. Oh, there you go. There you go. We are through the looking glass. I love it.

All right. Well, anyway, back to the Indie castes. Our first category, we're going to get started with a big. one right away. We're not going to be like doing any like two hours of like categories no one cares about. We're going to get into the big categories immediately. First category is the most indie cast as a genre album or artist of 2020. And this came from one of our listeners. This is looking for his name. Benjamin Moffitt. Thank you Benjamin. He suggested a bunch of categories. We got a lot of good suggestions from our listeners, by the way, as you know, as you would expect.

We weren't able to use all of them, but this was a good one. So yeah, indie cast as a genre. We've joked about this on the show before about how basically it's like the meeting point of our taste. Let's like emo on one side, maybe like a rootsy or jamier thing on the other side. And where that meets in the middle. And it seemed like the obvious choice for me was young Jesus, welcome to conceptual beach. also because I think we're like one of the only two people who like talked about this record at all this year which is really wrong because it is it didn't make either one of our top fives it made it was my number I think 12 record it was top 10 for me

I think I might have like pushed it a little bit lower because we had an episode where we talked about and I wanted to talk about other records but it's definitely top 10 for me yeah and again this is a a band that, I think on one hand, I mean, they started out in the emo scene. Oh, yeah. And I think that they have, to me, and I wrote about this, they remind me of like a band, like modest mouse that kind of has like a indie rock, you know, like a bedrock indie thing going on, but it's, it's more expansive. And they can stretch out and get a little like crazier and weirder than maybe just like a straightforward indie rock band.

and yeah this is a great record and this is a band too that like I'm a little you know we talk about bands that get slept on this band in particular I feel like ought to be written about more because I do feel like they do break the mold in a lot of ways of like what an indie rock band could be

and I just feel like they're more adventurous than a lot of bands that I hear that are young coming out you can't really classify them as any one particular thing and maybe that's why they slip through the cracks a little bit because they don't really fit in with like a scene. Yeah, they, they, they, they're a band, they're, and also before we get any further, like indie casty as a genre, I know how like, how that can sound.

But like what we, what we, what, the reason I think we have this category is because we saw this phenomenon, like readers would point this out where bands that we talked about on this show, when you look at their Spotify fans also like, it would be like bands that have absolutely nothing at all to do with each other sonically, but it would be like, stay inside and dog leg, but also David Nance in like kind of the same grouping. So it was really cool to kind of see that. But yeah, with Young Jesus, that's pretty much like the band that embodies like what we talk about in the sense that like, yeah, they started out in an emo sort of Midwest emo sort of mold like worshipping bright eyes and so forth. And then they kind of move more towards like astral jazz

and like real jam band stuff. I mean, their songs are like six minutes or better like regularly. on albums. And more, I think more to the point, like this, this is a band that kind of, like Steve said, covers so much ground, like they could be liked by so many people, but that also allows them to slip through the cracks a bit because, you know, they don't really have that, like, core scene. Like, I mean, they're from L.A., but they operate in their own sort of world. They don't have, like, associated bands with them, like, despite being on Saddle Creek. And I think my, like, Obviously, they're number one, but like a close number two is another band that embodies those sort of characteristics, which is empty country. This is Joe Dagastino's post-Symbles-Eat guitars band.

Symbols-Eet guitars, I kind of respect the fact that they, in 2014, after Luz came out, they started to shift a little more towards emo. Like, I think they saw that there might be an audience there for them, and they toured with Say Anything in modern baseball. that didn't obviously work as far as, like, exploding their fan base. They're, like, another, like, sort of like young Jesus. I think bands that we, like, tend to have kind of hard luck stories where they're just, like, really underappreciated. Like, they're just kind of...

Yeah, you want to... You cheer for underdogs. Yeah. Like, you want, you know, you find the bands that... And we talked about this last week, that, you know, there's definitely artists that, um, always end up on top ten lists, that they always end up, you know, among the most critically acclaimed records of the year.

And I think sometimes, again, you don't want to back away from those albums if they happen to be great. But at the same time, if you're a critic, you do like to support the bands that are maybe a little underloved out there. And empty country is so underloved.

Like, the real shame about this is that this was supposed to be the album where Joe gets, like, separates himself from the hard luck narrative around Symbol Zee guitars. like and then what happens he announces a tour with uh purple mountains the day david burman dies and then he's on tiny engines and that label full so he's got to release it on his own then he puts it out on a smaller uh philadelphia label get better records and then the pandemic happens and so it it is an island that

like kind of endured more hardship than anything previously and they were always a hard luck band and with this album and this album man it's like this album and it's like The songwriting is so, like, there are bands where I like the songs, but it's rare for me to find, like, a songwriter who I'll follow whatever project they do. And his songwriting is just, I just don't understand, like, how it doesn't, you know, that it doesn't translate to a much larger audience because it is, like, very personal, but also surreal in a way similar to, like, say, Phoebe Bridgers. but I also think that he's just not somebody who's ever really been able to create a narrative beyond like, how come these 10 writers are the only people who like simple Zee guitars?

You know? Well, you know, I will say too, like a sober landing, I think, with the empty country is that I do feel like people were aware of his past and some of the hard luck things he's had. And I think that there was like at least a mini ground swell among fans of this kind of music to buy that record, like when it came on a band camp. I feel like a lot of people were talking about that. And I know even Joe even talked about that.

Like, he felt like he got a good amount of support, not as much as he deserved. But, I mean, like, I know Billboard wrote about that record. I mean, it got, like, a decent amount of press. I think, you know, more than, like, Young Jesus did, certainly. Yeah. So, you know, hopefully that continues. I think it's a really good project for him and, like, to see that keep getting momentum. But my concern with him is that he's just so, I just hope that he continues making music

because he always says in every interview that like if I, if this one doesn't break, I'm going to have to quit music. So I just hope he keeps going in some form or fashion, you know. Maybe that's why I feel like more personally invested in the success of this one. Well, Joe, if you're listening, please make another empty. We'll talk about that on Indycast. Moving on to our next category. This is a, this is suggested by another listener.

Mikey ETC is his username. I had his real name and I don't have it anymore. So we'll just call you Mikey, et cetera. Yes. He said, Stephen's favorite Ian Coencore album and Ian's favorite Stephen Hydencore album. So this is kind of playing off the first category a little bit. If you listen to this show, you know that Ian and I both have our lanes that sometimes intersect. but often do not.

So, and I think we all know what we're talking about when we say Ian Cohencore, Stephen Hayden Corps. For me, I'll say, and I quite like this year was called, I'll figure this out by a band called Barely Civil, which is, and I saw you talk about here and there. This might be cheating a little bit because Barely Civil is from Wisconsin,

which kind of makes them in my lane, you know, because I am a booster of the Upper Midwest. But this record I like quite a bit. And I'll say that, like, if you're a person who listens to this show and you hear Ian talking about emo records and you're not sure, like, well, I don't listen to emo all that much, I'm not sure where to dive in. I would suggest this record as being an example of, like, a really melodic, pretty, kind of like a Jimmy Eat World type emo rock thing, which is what I tend to be more amenable to,

the more melodic, I guess, like, not so much screamy, but like more, you know, I guess Jimmy World Bleed American type era stuff. Very wistful. That's what I really respond to on this record. Yeah. Wistful, yeah, wistful sad, but also like a good amount of like crunchy guitars and, you know, you get the riffs and the sadness at the same time. A little bit like heavier than something like Death Cab for Cutie, which, as I've said

on a previous episode, is a band I think is fine, but I have ever. and really responded to all that much. But I do like Jimmy Eat World quite a bit. And yeah, this record kind of scratches that itch for me. So, Ian, good job talking up, barely civil. I do like this record quite a bit. Yeah, we're out here making a difference. Great record.

It's very, I imagine it'll hit very differently now that it's like actually winter in most parts of the country. It was a very autumnal sounding emo record in the more of the vein, like, you know, American football or the quieter Jimmy Eat World songs. And yeah, I'm excited to hear what they do in the future. I don't think this band's masterpiece has come yet. But this one's certainly very good. Like, there's definitely room for growth.

This is like their second album, right? It's a massive, massive growth. I remember liking their first album too. Yeah, massive improvement over the first one, which is also quite good. But this is where they're starting to come into their own. So for... Well, and I think they're from O'Clair area. They are from...

They are from... I interviewed them for Stereo Gumman. Like, there are four members of the band, and three of them went to different University of Wisconsin. and satellite campuses. I think it was like... Oh, which ones? I think Oshkosh,

Whitewater, and O'Clair, maybe. Like, definitely not Madison. Like, it was, none of them went to Madison, but they're, yeah, they're... We got a blue gold in the band. See, I didn't know that there was a blue gold in the band. This makes me like them even more. Yeah. And UW Ashkosh, that's definitely in my backyard from where I grew up.

So, all right, barely said, well, I love you even more. Yeah, but problem. wave the flag for the for the UW satellite schools. And one of them is wearing a University of Minnesota sweater in the press picture. So that's even bonus, right? Say, love it. Love it. All right.

So what album that I like do you also like? So, yeah, I mean, in the way like Steven said, if it's, if it, if it, if it, if it, if it, if it, if it, if it, if it, if it, if it, if it, it, if it, it's probably Ian Coencore. Like, like, Steve's more on, like, kind of the folk chugel side of things. And, um, uh, this one, this one is kind of cheating as well, because this one, because this one is, This is in the Justin Vernon cinematic universe. This is now that came out in January from a band, a folk super group called Bonnie Light Horseman. It's an Anais Mitchell, Josh Kaufman,

who's worked with his golden messenger in the national and Eric Johnson from the fruit bats, not the Eric Johnson, who I think was in like guitar world, who did White Cliffs of Dover or whatever. But, you know, this band came together at the O'Clair Festival in 2018. So that alone puts them in the you know the Stephen Hayden realm.

But yeah, I mean, but yeah, this record is it, it's something I would like typically ignore. It's like being, you know, I think it's nominated for Best Contemporary Folk Grammy and the songs themselves are kind of like public domain. They're based on like historical folk songs. but for whatever, it came out in January. Like one of the underrated parts about putting it out of it out in January, people are like, oh, people are going to forget you by the year end. It's also, now mind you, this was January 2020 before the pandemic where, you know, the year was looking normal.

But it's a time where I am more likely to give albums that I otherwise wouldn't listen to a chance because there's just basically nothing else out. And I was just really taken aback by how the similarities this had between, albums I already like, you know, like alternately tuned guitars, harmonies. It's just a really, like, beautiful record, but not in, like, in a way that's, like, kind of boneless, for lack of a better term. Like, I think the fact that it draws from, like, traditional folk gives it a bit more heft or just, like, a bit more bloodiness than the sort of thing I might overhear on MPR and just kind of ignore. It's not a record I revisit a lot, but like it is one that I do when I just kind of

want to reset, you know, just to just to kind of reboot the day or whatever or when I'm like driving to work in the morning and I don't want to be like, you know, agitated, where I just want to listen to something like really pretty, but like still like very crafty. It's like, it's something, oddly enough in the same way that like barely civil reminds me of something I'd listen to in college. Like, this is something I'd also listen to in college because, like, I, I tried really hard to get into, like, traditional folk and, like, country living in the South at that time, you know, just so I'd have, like, something to talk about with, like, you know, my dormates

or whatever. So, yeah, the duality. Yeah, and this is a good winter record, too. Yes, very much, though. Like, this record, like, really suits the time of the year that we're in. Yeah, this record, uh, it made my mid-year list for 2020. It didn't make my year end, but it would have been, like, right outside of it. I did a top 20. It would have made probably my top 30 or 35.

So yeah, definitely Bonnie Light Horseman. It's a great record. So, okay, so we're moving on to our next category here. And this is what I'm pretty excited to talk about. Because it's most annoying album cycle. And we've already talked about annoying album cycles in this episode. I feel like this is something that we probably both, I feel a lot of affinity for in terms of complaining about. It's a very music critic thing to complain about. And I had two choices here. And I'll go through them quickly. I think my number one choice would be the car seat headrest album cycle for making a door less open.

Because I feel like that is actually like a pretty good record overall. Like I think it's a significant step down from, you know, like teams of denial, which I thought was like one of the best records. of the 2010s. This is, I don't think, even one of the best albums of 2020, but I think it's like a pretty good album. But you had the whole thing with him, like, wearing a mask in interviews. Oh, yeah. Which was really kind of weird.

You had, like, three slightly different versions of the same album. Like, when I reviewed the album, I was sent three different versions. And I was like, what is, like, the real version? Like, what should I be? reviewing and they're like they're not dramatically different but it was like sometimes like the track order was different or they were like somewhat different versions of like of the same song where like the mix would be like a little bit different or be like a little bit longer on one of the other albums and then like the lead single Hollywood is I think hands down like one of the worst car seat had

red songs ever like super irritating song and it just set a bad tone for that record, which again, I think there's some like pretty strong songs on there that I quite like, but it's like I had to get over, I feel like, so much garbage to get to the good stuff that, you know, it just seemed like it took a lot of work. It felt a lot like everything now to me. Like, just like how that album launch felt like they were throwing too many ideas against the wall, too much shtick, like the mask thing, especially, you know, that was conceived, before the pandemic, obviously. But then to be wearing a mask during the pandemic,

it just seemed like, oh, you're commenting on celebrity, but now everyone's wearing a mask. Like, it just didn't land. My second choice, and this will not surprise you, that I'm going to take another shot at this band, but the 1975, the 1975, their album cycle for notes on a conditional form, this is the album cycle that just kind of talk me out of being a fan of this band. I've talked about this.

I like their previous records. I like it when you sleep, I think in particular, is a really strong record. But, like, I think my problem with this album cycle is that I just liked the 1975 more when they were critically disreputable. They were more fun to get into, in the same way that I think I'm drawn to Greta van Fleetman.

Like, they're this dumb rock band that everyone takes a shit on, which kind of makes me like them. The 1975 kind of had that not to the same degree as Reda Van Fleet, but like they, you know, they were a band that people made fun of for a while. And then they became like,

just think peace fodder for people because of if we made it. You know, that really was the turning point for them. And just him talking about how, you know, doing interviews where he's like, we're fucking up the mainstream discourse. And, you know, if you're a band that

isn't trying to be the big span of the world, it's not aspirational. It's a hobby. It's just like, oh, just shut up. You just had so many obnoxious quotes to me. And I know, look, we don't need to rehash this too much. I know, like, we both love Billy Corgan. We both love, I love the Gallagher brothers, obviously. I'm not necessarily against delusional, egotistical rock stars.

But I don't know. My patience just wore thin with them, you know, during that whole thing. So, yeah, so definitely Carsteadhead Reds number one, I think, for worst album cycle. And then 1975 would be the runner up for me. What are your picks for most annoying album cycle? Yeah, the thing about the 1975 is that they're always on an album cycle, so I can't really separate one for the other. That's true.

And that cycle went on forever, too. I mean, that was like almost, was it a year? About. It was almost a year. Yeah. Tame Impala had the same thing, too, like, where there just went on forever. Yeah, I like that record, but the singles were very underwhelming. So I thought about Tame and Pala as a candidate, and I thought what I had to do to make

sure that this, you know, the pause when agitated bit is to separate the album cycle from like the album discourse because I think those are two very different things. I had to, like, I can't think of too many like press cycles that really reminded me of like, say, everything now where you just kind of recoil that everything the band did. I think, you know, the pandemic really tamped down bands or artists tendencies to do really extensive, kind of cheeky, prom. Moes. But the one that So, you know, they're exhausting discourses, but as far

as the ones that the, the album cycles that really kind of wore me down, they're kind of two sides of the same coin for the Haley Williams and the Bright Eyes album releases. Now, I wasn't, nothing about like the singles was, you know, annoying. I mean, like, I'm, I'm not sure about the whole, like, release, like, five songs, like,

every four months sort of thing. I appreciate they're doing something experimental with it. But what, you know, particularly with bright eyes and to a lesser extent the Haley Williams album cycle was that just the redundancy of like reading 25 to like 30 of the same damn profiles every time. And having it be written by someone who was like clearly like a huge fan at like 15 or 20. Now granted, I did one for bright eyes. So, you know, guilt like I contributed to that discreet. course, but I remember thinking, like, I got really, I got in really early on that bright eyes, uh, you know, beat like back in like, say, February. And then, you know, every, like, it seemed like

every week, like a new profile of Connor Oberst with the same talking points. And none of them really, like, challenged him at all. And like, I had to think like to the last, like, man, how is mine going to be any different? And so to me, like, those understandably, like, were the, we're the realm of like kind of fanfic or like just all like kind of fawning in a way. Like I get it. But it seemed like a kind, maybe I'm just projecting like a little cynical in trying to like insulate either of these artists from like having to be, I don't know, criticized or in any way. So I mean, it's small potatoes compared to something like car seat headrest and like 1975. but to me those were a little

it was a little bit kind of an insidious form of like when you get like celebrities interviewing other celebrities in publications and so I maybe I'm just like projecting here maybe I'm just mad because I had to like

I was like the last of 50 bright eyes profiles but I think that those artists in particular I was sort of turned off by just the and the redundancy of how, just how extensively they were profiled. But, like, there was a lot of breadth, but not a lot of depth I find in those album cycles. Can I just say that, like, I have never interviewed Kiner Oberst. And I feel like I'm the last music journalist who likes Kiner Obersm music, who's never

interviewed him. Like, I don't know how that hasn't happened. Because that thing you're talking about, like, I noticed that, too. like there were like multiple kinder obers profiles every week and I'm like how have I not interviewed this guy yet? And now I feel like I shouldn't interview him. This should be just like that thing like where like I'm the one guy who's never seen Star Wars. You know, like I'm going to be the one guy who's never interviewed counter overburst.

That'd be amazing. So on to our next category here. And this is going to be our last category category of this episode. I'm going to call an audible here because we're running a little long. So we were going to do five categories this episode. We'll just do six next week and try not to spend as much time talking about Taylor Swift. Although I know it'll be hard to keep you from talking about evermore next week. I know you'll be excited to get into it.

Let's talk about the most memory hold album of 2020. This is like another category that is always very close to my heart. The albums that, like, you look back on the year and you actually forgot that they came out. And my choice is the Green Day album, Father of All Motherfuckers, which came out, I believe, in February, right before the pandemic. They give true. And I remember that this album was sort of controversial online because there was that billboard that showed up in a bunch of places where it said something like, like, no DJs, no Swiss producers. Yeah. No auto tune. No Swedish producers.

No auto tune. It was a very dudes rock type ad campaign. And like the title, the record obviously is very sort of like, you know, we're putting our junk on the table type move. You know, like we're showing off here, like how tough we are, which I don't really like that for Green Day. Like I don't, like, when they try to be like the angry punk band, I don't think that really works for them. I always thought that they were like a pop band that had like heavy guitars. And like, and I say that as a compliment. Like they write really good songs that are melodic and catchy. They're not like this like badass, like scary punk band.

Them trying to act that way, especially now that like what, are they in their 50s now by now? Yeah, I would say got to be. Like if I would think that they were in their 50s by now. They got to be. It just seems like a little desperate, you know, especially like you see Billy Joe Armstrong now. And his face is like so smooth. And he has like, his hair is very, very dark. I don't know.

He looks very waxy right now. He's actually 48 years. He's 48 years old. He's 48? Okay. So he's pushing. He's getting close to 50. Wow.

So then he was really young when, when Duky hit. 22 or 21? 21 or 22. Yeah. Ugh. Yeah. And he's been around forever. So yeah, that's a record.

And I can't remember any of the songs on it. I remember that billboard. That's all I remember about that record. And, you know, Green Day, obviously, they're not a band at their creative peak, and their last bunch of albums have been pretty forgettable. But it's still Green Day. I still feel like you ought to remember that they put out a record. But I don't remember that album at all.

Like, do you remember that album being any good? I never, like, is it like, like, Green Day is like a band that I'm surprisingly not that into. Like anyone of my age group who talks. about the things I talk about. I totally own Duky. I learned how to play all those songs on guitar, but like they never really spoke to me the way that like other bands from that era did. And like even like American idiot, like that just kind of passed me by. But you know, the fact that like we remember the Billboard, um, kind of defy like kind of defies the memory hold aspect. Like I can't

remember the album itself. But I remember like Green Day did something. And you know, that that's, that to me is like more than a lot of bands can say. But the thing about like Green Day is that I get the feeling that maybe people who still like Green Day haven't memory hold that album. I think they've, they're like in a space where they're kind of like a huge cult band in that like nothing they do right now would probably expand their fan base. But, you know, perhaps that there's like a very vibrant Green Day community that's, you know, that is ranking father of all motherfuckers like right up there with like say Nimrod or

whatever. that's not that's not happening i don't you're right and that a lot of people love them but like i don't think green day fans were really excited about that album i i think they're probably they probably still have like insomniac in their car you know or they have uh yeah like yeah like nimrod or something i would just think that like a green day album is like an any year would probably be memory hold at least by like our standards but yeah this one in particular is like wow like that was February. Like you could have, I could have sworn that happened in like 2017, you know. Right, right. Well, what are your memory hold? Oh, gosh. So this one, I thought about like,

should it be something from pre-pandemic or I, or should it be something like during the pandemic? Because like, there are albums that came out that like should be big, but just people have kind of completely almost like for like even big, big, big artists. that just seemed to have like no real impact that they should for a pop act. And our guy Larry Fitzmaurice brought this up yesterday. I mean, like there was a, you know, there was a Lady Gaga album out this year. There was a Drake album. I mean, technically speaking, a Drake album out this year.

It was more of like kind of a collection of like B size or whatever. There was an Ariana Grande album that came out a little while ago that doesn't seem to have, like, you know, it's pretty bad. And like when you're a pop artist that puts out an album and like, you know, the only year end list you make is like billboards, like, critic list. I mean, like, that, that is a signal that you've kind of put out of memory hold pop album. But the, I feel like Ariana Grande was all over my Twitter feed for like two weeks. Yeah, but like, yeah. This is the, this is the horny album we need in 2020. I feel like I read that

like a hundred times. Yeah, but I think compared her previous albums, like the tail, like, after the initial impact. Well, you, well, you, I have to tell, I have to say like in our outline, you put Childish Gambino. Yes. In this category. And like, I have to say that. I have to say like that I legitimately forgot. Yeah, that was a Childish Gambino record. So, yeah, so, but the one album that I swore, like, I could not remember this coming out. And I'm not trying to rehash old beefs because along with Kid Cuddy, I still get grief for my review of Childish Gambino's camp. I would have written it far differently now.

It's still terrible. But Childish Gambino in 2018 put out, This is America. a song that a more astute critic than myself called a pop-up shop for like you know for Twitter discourse I think the song itself wasn't particularly good the video was like very compelling but what this what that song did it I think it topped quite a few year end list in 2018 it really put forth this idea that like he is fully like Donald Glover is like fully this like cultural force who you know is not just strong-arming people through to his popularity or the fact that he's in movies or Atlanta, but like this is like one of our more, like this is one of our most important artists.

And he putting out that song and then headlining Coachella in 2019. And everything was leading up to, I don't know, his stankonia, his, there's a riot going on, just something that really cement him as one of the foremost artists of our time. And, like, he put it out an album in March. Like, do you remember what the title of it is? Like, it just... Yeah, I honestly don't remember anything about this album. And, like, I had to think...

Like, again, like, when you put in the outline, I was like, wow, that's a good choice for memory hold album. Because I literally could not remember that. Yeah, what was it called? It had a date on it. And, like, I'm not trying to be flip about this, but, like, it was like 3, 15, 20 or something along those lines. I mean, like, was it a full-fledged record? Yeah, 315-20. It was a full-fledged record.

It had like just a white cover. And, I mean, it came out on a major, it came out on a major label. Well, okay, I'm reading the Wikipedia page here just to refresh my memory. That's how you know this one really belongs. Well, no, it was posted on his website, Donald Glover Presents.com, and then it was taken down 12 hours later. So I wonder, like, if it, does that? count as coming out because I don't know if it was like...

I think it exists. I'm sure it's floating out there. I mean, it was out for 12 hours, so I'm sure like tens of thousands of people downloaded it in that time, but it seems like maybe he had second thoughts and just like pulled it.

Yeah. It's a stunt that that he's just going to do that. I mean, it got some pretty good reviews. It got a 6.0 from pitchfork. Consequence of sound gave the beat plus So yeah there's different opinions on it apparently But the fact that like someone

At this level Like this was supposed to be like the Like the zenith of his art And you know maybe that like Maybe this is like a good thing for like the long term Where he you know Where the next album is like the one he's like really on board with or whatever Or just maybe it's like in tune with his mistrust

of like, you know, discourse. Like, his interviews are, like, usually really combative. And maybe this is indicative of that, but it's... Well, he released it, like, right at the shutdown. I mean, that was right when things were getting shut down. So it was, like, terrible timing, too. I have to admit, I've not heard that record, so I can't really comment on whether it's good or bad.

It's interesting, that thing you were talking about with This Is America, I feel like, you know, how that was, I think, the chalky choice for like song of the year. In 2019, like, you know, if you were a major publication, that was the song. I think a lot of people picked because it seemed to like say something about the state of the world or it was a very zeitgeist-type song. And, I mean, it's fair to say that that's what WAP was in 2020. I feel like this is America as a song that I agree with you. I think it's a song. It's okay.

It has a very memorable music. video. I think the music video was like kind of brilliant. And I feel like a 20-20 WAP was that where I don't know, is that a great song? I don't really know. I don't really think so. But the video is very memorable and it was very zeitgeisty in the moment. And it's like one of those songs that you put at the top of your list because it's like, well, what other song seems significant enough to go in that slot? You know, is it really the best song or is it the most sort of significant song. So I kind of see parallels

with those two tracks. Top in the list. Except like Megan These Stallion's album, like people like, you hear that one. Like that actually exists and we know it exists. Well, I'm not saying it was memory. No, I'm just saying like, I'm not saying like those two songs.

I understand the comparison. And also like, you know, it's similar with like Love It if we made it or like, you know, the Lana Del Rey song from 2019 where it's like, okay, this is like a significant signpost. about like what we you know dealt with this year and also the song's called this is america it's like you can't really if you want to like talk about a song that like projects its own significance

about like what it's about then i think there was i don't know i thought there was like maybe a little something cynical about that where is you know he kind of understands how like i think he has a good understanding of how like particularly like white critics think about his work and so um but yeah i I mean, maybe, maybe his, you know, maybe his stankonia, maybe his, to pimp a butterfly awaits. But, yeah, this is an album that, like, when we're talking about, like, a headliner for Coachella and someone who has, like, a very, very ardent fan base who, and this, it's just kind of hard to remember. Like, this is, like, this got sucked right into the memory hole of, like, late March when, like, we were still trying to figure this whole thing out. And, you know, if anyone you'd think be able to, like, come out, come through that with, you know, a significant pop album, it would be him. But, yeah, I think that one is really something that just got, I got sucked into the rupture in our daily life that occurred in late March.

So we're going to put a pause on Indycassie for now, but please check back with us next week. We'll be back with part two of our Indycast Award Show. We've not reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I recommend something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? All right, so I think this part of the show is really going to show the Ian Steve dichotomy. If you want to talk about like true emo, like I mean, like we're talking like playing in a basement to like 12 people in New Jersey, breaking up after your first album, not getting

covered on any kind of like major publications. We got to talk about a New Jersey band called Ogbert the Nerd. This album comes out tomorrow or Friday, December 11th also, clearly a band that doesn't care about getting on year endless. But they are a band that's named after a Tracy Jordan bit on 30 Rock. And their new album is called I Don't Hate You. And this is just like an album that's like really fun to hear, particularly after we've spent so much time trying to think about like the heaviness of 2000. and like year endless and um you know significance and narratives like these guys that you know they're a band that reminds me a little bit of like say snowing or whatever from i guess like pure

emo revival where like they clearly love making emo music but they kind of hate it too and so there's this sort of meta self-destructive quality to it where um it's just like they they don't take themselves too seriously and they kind of play up a lot of emo tropes but it's also super catchy as well um if you like um basically i think like 2016 dogleg or like uh 2009 2010-ish choice manner like before they got polished or you know just back when they were just like a punk band that didn't give a shit about anything other than like pleasing their 12 friends on twitter augbert the nerd really does that and like will it show up on my 2021 year end list? I don't know

but for people who are like deep into emo Twitter like this is like this is this is the album for you also if you're the type of person who likes to say hey so what are you into lately Ogbert the nerd I think this one I think

you definitely owe this at least the list and it's a little good it's good counter programming to say like Kid Cuddy Jack Harlow Taylor Swift if you really want to be like pissy about like people paying too much attention to, you know, popular stuff. This one, it definitely has the Ian True Emo seal of approval. Yeah, I mean, they're making it hard with that band name, I have to say, but I'm going to

give it a shot. I'm going to give it a shot this weekend. I'm coming for you, Ogbert the Nerd. I'm going to go to an old school pick for my recommendation. I checked out one of the massive nights live streams concerts that the Holt Steady played last weekend and I really liked it. Why'd you laugh? I'm laughing because like when we talk about the favorite Ian Cohencore and the favorite Stephen Highencore, we were like a like a very, very small emo band and the hold steady. Like we are like really playing our roles here. Well, the whole,

well yeah, like the hold steady is like Led Zeppelin. I mean, come on. Like this is not like the biggest band in the world by any stretch of imagination. But they are a band that I loved. I've loved for a really long time. They were definitely like one of my favorite bands of the odds. I have to say that like I kind of fell out of step with them a little bit in the 2010s, but watching that live stream, it really just reminded me again of how much I like this band. And it was a really great show. I've actually been digging more into their last couple albums, I think thrashing through The Passion, which came out in 2019. I remember when that came out, really enjoying it. I think that was perceived to be sort of a comeback from the previous two records, Heaven is wherever. And the

teeth dreams, which I think are actually both like pretty solid records, but like certainly not as good as the four records that came before it. Hold Setti just announced a new album called Open Door Policy that's going to be coming out in February. And I got a promo of that and I'll abstain from talking about that for now. But I think that's something if you are a Hold Sedy fan, maybe if you haven't checked out their last couple records, you might want to put that on your radar. I think it will be worth looking forward to, and I'll leave it at that. But yeah, it's always fun for me, you know, maybe you have a band that you really love, but you haven't listened to for a long time, and then you have that experience, like, where you can, like, get back into them

and really kind of dig back into their, their back catalog and hear them with fresh years. And I think that's true for me with the Hold Steady. You know, I think this was a band that I maybe over-listened to a bit in the authors. and maybe got a little bit tired of for a while, and now I'm just totally back in to listening to them. So if you're a fan of them, I recommend re-investigating their catalog. If you're younger, maybe you weren't around

when records like Boys and Girls in America came out, I would suggest investigating those records. There's a lot there to check out. Before we sign off today, I just want to say that if you are a fan of our show, I would encourage you to leave us a review on iTunes or wherever it is that you get your pods, the more reviews that we get that helps our show.

It, I think, helps with the algorithms for our show. It gives us a little bit better placement on platforms that helps build our audience. So if you don't mind saying something nice about us or just leaving us a good rating, that would be very much appreciated. For now, though, we will be signing off on this episode of Indycast.

Thank you for listening. We'll be back with more news and reviews and Indycasties. next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.