Indiecast - The Indiecasties Part 2

Episode Date: December 18, 2020

In the second of a special two-part episode, Steven and Ian are wrapping up the show for the year by awarding the highly sought-after Indiecasties to the most surprising, overrated, and genuinely impressive releases of the year from artists like The Killers, Fiona Apple, Phoebe Bridgers, and more.This week, the duo are ready to bestow some trophies upon the albums that best embodied the aesthetics of 2020, as well as the artists who made the best comeback this year. Also on the slate for this episode are artists who defied the odds set by their back catalogue to surprise critics with the strengths of their most recent release, and the most overhyped albums that actually managed to deserve the praise, among many more.Subscribe to the newsletter for weekly music recommendations in your inbox and follow the official Topsify playlist.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indy Mix tape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to IndyCast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we continue our look back at 2020 with the second installment of our award show, The Indycasties. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you?

Steve, like, one week after the fact, and I already feel like I'm going through year-endless withdrawal, man. They're starting to come in in a trickle as opposed to a flood. And I mean, I just find myself, like, waking up in the middle of the night, like, needing to look at a, like, looking at like the cover of the Duelipa album or something like that. See, like, you read a lot of Year Endless. I get this from your, your Twitter.

Because, like, I have to admit, I read only one year-end list from beginning to end and it was my list. And I have to say, I have to say, I did a great job with my list. But otherwise, I don't read a lot of year endless anymore. I think I'm just, just like I don't read a lot of record reviews anymore. I'm just like this, you know, sort of jaded person now. I only just want to read my own. I'm like Eddie Van Halen, like how Eddie Van Halen never listened to like any other bands.

I think like the last record he had bought was Peter Gabriel So. That was the last album he bought in his life. You knew a lot worse. Yeah, well, exactly. I mean, and he bought that like in 1986. He didn't like buy that in like 2016 catching up with it. So I feel like I'm like Eddie Van Halen in that, in this one very narrow way in that like I've so saturated myself with music writing that I actually don't read a lot of music writing anymore. I mean, I don't read a lot of music writing.

And I, you know, many people are saying, you know, Stephen Hayden, he is the Eddie Van Halen of music. music list reading. But for me, it's like, I will, I will read any, like, I will, if I don't, I might not read your publication, like, for the entire year, but I'll read the year end list. And I might not, like, follow you on Twitter, but if I see that, you know, someone liked your year end list, I might go look at it. And it's because I feel like in a lot of ways, like, I miss out on so much that goes on in the year because I'm so focused on my own thing that I'll just, like, look at. Like, I love year-end lists. And here, here's the thing that really bugs me about, like, the way they're rolled out. Like, I feel like they're coming out earlier and earlier. And, you know,

from a logistical standpoint, I get the criticism of, you know, releasing your year-end list in November because you might miss a few records. I know Rolling Stone's probably stoked that they'll have another Taylor Swift album to put on their 2021 list because Evermore missed their 2020 list. But also, like, We are heading into the last two years of the two weeks of the year. Nothing's really happening. And there's just so little content to, you know, help you pass through the day. Because, you know, some of us still have to go to our office jobs and have things to, you know, pass, look at during lunch or whatever. But this is where Indycast comes in.

We are providing that crucial, that crucial year-end content after all the year-ends have come out. Yes. although this is our last episode of 2020 like fair warning to all of you you're going to have to survive beyond this you know these next two weeks without us we will be back in 2021

barring some sort of disaster yeah so excited for that we'll have to figure out what the hell we're going to talk about in January or anywhere in February or if the wrens drop the album on like December 28th then we'll have to do an emergency episode

yes if the rents drop the sequel to the Metallands we will do an episode I that's really funny to me that story because I remember I wrote about that album for Grantland I did this I did an interview with Charles RIPRRRRNNN's album

and he said he was like I think at that point he said he was something like 70% done and that was in 2013 and we're still waiting for the new Wrens album I wanted to ask you something quick what's that you are a person that looks at a lot of music, a lot of year-end list.

What do you think about this, like, mini sort of issue of, like, ranking albums? Because, like, Van Camp had this thing where they, like, made a, you know, sort of a big deal about, like, we're not going to rank albums on our list. A list that I actually like a lot. And this, I think, list, it dropped the day that we're recording this episode is the Aquarium Drunkard list. That's a great blog. They never rank their list. And that's actually a list I do look at because I end up discovering a lot. of albums from there. But like what do you think about like, because people are saying like you

shouldn't rank art. It's, it creates hierarchies. And like, because to me, I'm like, if you make a list, unless you're going to list every single album that came out in a year, you're creating a hierarchy of taste. You know, whether you rank it or not, it's on your list. So there's lots of albums that are on your list. Yeah. I mean, personally, I don't really care if you rank it or not, but like making an issue of it, like you're taking a moral stand. I kind of question that a little bit. I'm just like, you know, it's just the list. If you rank it or not, it's fine.

But, you know, if you're ranking it, I'm not looking at you like you're some sort of like enemy of art. Yeah. Because you said something was number one and number two. You know what I mean? Like, how do you feel about that? The way, I mean, I'm a list reader of all sorts. Yeah, Aquarium Drunker definitely one of the best year in year. shout to Justin, you know, go dogs.

And I think you're right in the sense that there's room for everything. Like if you do it put, if you feature 50 albums, you've created a hierarchy between those 50 albums, even if they're unranked and everything else. And also, you know, like Band Camp Haslo has like charts for bestselling, you know, in any given genre. So I think hierarchies, whether they're stated or unstated are kind of unavoidable. But, you know, my question is like, what do readers like? like. Yeah, I'm sure there are some readers who find the idea of ranking things a little distasteful.

Others, you know, such as myself, I love rankings. Like, I'm, I'm a sports person. I like the, I don't like the fact, I don't, I don't totally believe that art is like a winners and losers sort of thing. But I do think it helps in a lot of ways get a sense of, you know, what matter or maybe not what mattered the most, but like, what was the biggest story of any given year. And, you know, you got a I like things more than others, you know, for different reasons. And it is tough to say, you know, do particularly if like you're comparing albums across genres or like doing decade lists. Like I find those to be quite difficult.

But I don't know. I think there's room for everything. Right. Yeah. If, if people want to not rank them by all means, if people want to rank them and get like super granular about it, that's cool. too. I don't know if, you know, I don't, I would just love to know what the readers think. And it's not that every publication needs to like cater to the reader's whims. I think there

needs to be editorial voice. But I don't know. I get a little bit, I get just like this bad taste on my mouth when people treat music writing as if it is like some sort of like higher calling. I take it very seriously. But like at the same time. it's still kind of fun, and we have to think about, you know, what's fun? Exactly. And I guess my take is, you know, because I see these conversations take place among critics about how, you know, it can be dangerous to create a canon because canons have biases and, like, it can keep out records that are worthy because they don't fit whatever criteria

critics think are important in a particular time. And those are important conversations to have. I think it's good to be thoughtful about that. but I think it also is necessary to have some perspective on what music writing can and can't do. And I do believe that, yeah, it helps for a record, certainly in the short term, to get a lot of praise from critics and to end up on these year-end lists. But, like, I would just invite anyone to look at a year-end list from, like, 10 years ago or 20 years ago and just look at the records that, like, no one remembers. You know, that records that were praised in the year they came out that were totally forgotten. And then also to remember the records that weren't on those lists that, like, people just revere now and love now.

And we talk about that happens every single year. You know, there are critically acclaimed records that just come and go. And there's records that are sort of, you know, sort of critically ignored maybe or more under the radar that end up becoming revered. You know, my point just being that, like, critics are not the be all end all in, like, what is remembered. And I'll say even like, you know, I made a joke earlier about how my list was the only list I read from beginning to end. I honestly can't remember everything I put on my list already, you know? It's like, and like I was tweeting about this this week. Like there's this great album called Hit to Hit by a band called Second Grade from Philadelphia.

I was listening to that record this week and it was totally one of those things where you feel like late list making buyers remorse. where you're like, oh, why didn't I put this on my year-end list? Like, I've talked about that record on this show, but like, I wish I'd put it on my year-end list because that's such a good album. I feel the same, man. I wanted to shoehorn it into this episode because I wanted to shout out second grade because that's a really good record, hit-to-hit. Go check that out if you haven't yet.

I should have put it on my list. I feel a bit of, I feel a bit of buyer's remorse because, like, you know, I, in the Up Rock's list, I put, like, the first glass beach album on there again, and it's like, you know what? technically a 2019 record. I could have put something like literally new. And as far as, yeah, at this time of year, Facebook puts up memories. And I often, like back in the day, I would post my top 50 lists. And you would, and I would see one from 2015. And I just like, did I really like 50 albums that year? It's like, did I really listen to this number 47 all this time? And it's, yeah, You just think about like how I think lists are important because they do give you a sense of like what was important at the time like I don't think we make these with the intention that 10 15 years from now this is going to be the canon you know and even if there is like a like you know let's create a new canon it's still a canon you know so I think it's kind of impossible to do music criticism without you know putting things on higher art like putting things in.

a hierarchy. That's just kind of the nature of it. And, yeah, at the end of the day, we're just still a bunch of nerds talking about music. Yeah, exactly. It's fun. We're just, you know, we love this stuff. We take it seriously, but it's also a laugh at the end of the day. And it's good to keep that in mind. And I feel like that's a good segue. into the indie castes section of this episode. The most important awards ceremony up in here. Yes, exactly. The only year-end retrospective that matters,

I think it's fair to say. That's what people are saying. That's not what we're saying. Many people are saying it. That the indie castes, it's the only year-end honor that anyone cares about. I should say just as a sort of a housekeeping thing here, that we are suspending the mailbag segment this week,

and we're also going to suspend the recommendation corner segment just to make sure that we can get as many indie castes into this episode as we can. Last episode, we had to, like, sort of delay one of the categories because we were talking way too much about Greta van Fleet, I think. I'm not to blame Greta Van Fleet for that, because we got sidetracked on them. But we're going to pack as many indie castes as we can into this episode. So to start off with a big category, comeback of the year. I feel like this was a year where a lot of familiar favorites from the past in indie world came back and put out records.

You had, of course, Fiona Apple putting out her first record in eight years. You had the strokes put out their first record in seven years. Bright Eyes came back. you had HUM came back from like a 20, I think, 22 years. That's a great record. That was on my year-end list. I think the one that stands out for me, though, is the killers. And the killers, you know, they weren't like some of these other acts I've talked about who, you know, came back from like a long absence to put out a record.

Like, the killers have been fairly active. They put out their previous album, Wonderful, Wonderful in 20s. But for me, this is a comeback in the sense of them actually returning to an artistic state that I actually care about. Like, I wrote a review of Wonderful, Wonderful, and I think I literally said in that review that I'm giving up on this band. Like, this band is finished. Like, I left them for dead on the side of the road with that review. To the point where when they put up this new record in 2020, imploding the Mirage, I was ignoring it. I didn't really care about it.

I wasn't paying attention to any of the singles. And then when it came time for me to write about the record, I was shocked by how much I enjoyed the album, especially some of the singles, like my own soul's warning and caution. And I don't know if maybe my expectations were just low, you know, but I think those are legitimately great songs. And I think that album overall is, like, pretty damn good

and about as good as you could expect from a killer's record. in 2020. So yeah, that for me, I think, really stands out as like, wow, I thought this band was finished, but they actually have some juice left in the tank and they came through in a big way. How about you? Yeah. I mean, I think hum has to be mentioned. And that, I think the release of that album is one of the very few pure, good things in 2020.

Like usually when there is a surprise. drop of an album. It's called Inlet, by the way. We should say the album title. Yes. I usually get some advanced warning about it. Like that happened with Fleet Foxes and that happened with Jeff Rosenstock. But I woke up one morning and people were talking about this new Hum record.

And sometimes on Spotify, you'll notice that bands, especially if they have like pretty common names like hum, cursive, like words that you might actually use. there's like a rapper or something like that with that name who releases new music and everyone gets like super weirded out about it. But like, wait, this is an actual like an actual hum record. And the fact it turned out to be an incredible record, I mean, one of the pure good things of this past year. And in a way, they never really went away because they were so influential. But if I had to pick like a comeback of the year in the sense of like a return to form or

just like kind of coming back from something as opposed to hum making. an excellent record 22 years after their previous album, which is also excellent. Kind of an unconventional choice for this. I would have to say Grimes because, granted, in 2015, Art Angels was one of the, you know, most acclaimed albums of the year, super popular. But I think between then and her most recent now, Miss Anthroposene, it's a little hard to pronounce. I don't know if anyone besides like Kanye did more to kind of devalue. you their goodwill, like short of getting canceled, like, you know, between like the relationship with Elon Musk and just all the kind of goofy stuff that Grimes does. And also maybe the sense that,

you know, the, the zeitgeist has, like, moved on from her after, after Art Angels. I mean, like, we'll talk about this more as far as, like, albums that we expect to age the most poorly. But you would get the kind of sense that maybe like Grimes was like a you know kind of a millennial thing like a like a 2015 sort of thing but yet she she put out a record that was really well accepted and people sort of kind of forgot about all that other stuff and you know those are the those are the comebacks that interest me because it's it's it's it's it's it's easier to like go away for a long time as opposed to like come back from like any sort of PR flap or even like just like making a whack album like the killers did.

I don't think that the narrative or like critics in a sense are very forgiving, especially if there's a descendant artist who like gives that like one little slip. So I think Grimes like really held serve in a way that impressed me. So yeah, maybe not like coming back from like making a terrible album or like, you know, it's only been five years. But I'm really interested to see where she goes going. forward, you know.

I feel like people were kind of lukewarm on that album. I actually thought it was like a pretty good record. I enjoyed the Grimes record. It didn't do as good on like year ends's visions or art angels did. But I got the sense that people were kind of like winding up to like really dismiss it. And that didn't happen. I think I think that also sort of happened with Tame and Paula as well. They came back from like what I thought was like some a really cool reception to the singles.

And there were like eight of them. So yeah, I think at the end of the day, if like, if you're that, I think popular bands tend to get a lot more leeway. So, yeah, that would be my choice. Moving on to our second indie castie of this episode, worst musician tweet. Wow. I'm excited for this episode. I was excited for this category. I have to go with, this is kind of an obvious choice, but it's obvious, I think, for a good reason.

because it was really terrible. It was from Halsey in January, and it was when she basically wished another 9-11 on Pitchfork over a review of her record, her record Manick, which got a 6.5, solid score. Not bad. Definitely not a home run,

but, like, you know, if you want to break that into, like, the star, like if you're doing, like, the Rolling Stone 5 star rating, that would be like about a three and a half star album. So pretty solid. Maybe a little less. It would be like three and like maybe like a third star. So, but she,

she tweeted, can the basement that they run pitchfork out of just collapse already? Also, you must, you must, you must mention that it was P, asterisk, like pitchfork, but the I is with an asterisk.

So people might not find it, you know? Exactly. Like the editors are pitchfork. searching Pitchfork in Twitter looking for people mentioning the site, it wouldn't have come up in this site because of Halsey's very clever ruse there. But yeah, she didn't, you know, she's making a joke there about music critics living in their parents' basement, or bloggers, I guess, living in their parents' basement.

I think that was the original sort of idea of that tweet, but she didn't realize that Pitchfork is now a big-time corporate music publication that is housed inside the World Trade Center or the World Trade Center building. So, yeah, that was a problem. She actually deleted the tweet and apologized after that. But, you know, to me, this just, it signifies a larger trend that we saw in 2020 and, you know, has been going on for the last several years, musicians clapping back at critics on Twitter, which is something that, again,

like, I don't have a problem with, you know. If you, you know, if you're a music critic, putting your opinion out there, you have to be prepared for the person that you're writing about to come at you? You know, I think that's part of the gig. However, I think it always looks musician, it always makes musicians look awful when they do that. Like, if I was Halsey's friend, I would say, don't do this Halsey. This is a mistake. It's going to make you look terrible. You have a right to do it, but it's not good form for you to do it because you're just going look terrible, and in this case, she looked especially terrible doing it. So that's my choice.

You, I think, even have a better choice, though. I love your choice. I mean, I think if you overlook the fact that Halsey kind of, kind of sort of wished another 9-11, it's actually kind of a legendary tweet. Moreover, like, she didn't, she didn't intend to invoke 9-11. Like, I'll give her a little bit of leeway. She apologized. Accidental 9-11. Yeah, I also think of it. Like, maybe I have, like, a little more, like, warm feelings towards it because this happened on January 23rd, 2020. And I don't know about you. I don't do, like, anything to go back to that time.

And just when, like, the biggest thing that we're talking about on the day is, like, Halsey made a 9-11 tweet. So, I don't know. I think what? I'm sure Trump did something that day that people were talking about. I'm sure Trump, like, you know, executed a member of his cabinet for, you know, doing a bad tweet. or something. We just don't remember any of that. Yeah, we're, we, we, we, we feel romantic for the awfulness of early 2020 because it makes

the awfulness of later 2020, like, like, seem good. Yeah. Or, or whatever. But on a related front for like my worst tweet, now, I mean, you could, we could, like, dedicate, like, an entire week's worth of episodes to this, you know, just for any number of of reasons, you know, musicians you find out who are, like, anti- COVID truthers or, you know, not wearing masks or like there are just so many ways. But if I had to like think of the tweet where I looked at it and thought this is like everything

about 2020 or even the past four years that I kind of want to leave behind, this happened on November 7th, 2020, which I believe is the day that we kind of figured out that Joe Biden was going to be the next president in the United States. James Blake, in the 2010's one of the most innovative, like an innovative electronic producer, kind of a pop star now. He tweeted, how do you cough, like that word,

C-O-V-F-E-F-E, like the kind of cough-fave. Let's call it that, just so I have a way to pronounce it. I've never heard the word said aloud, but he tweeted co-fave this morning tasting different. Now, how it reads right now, how it reads right now is probably very innocuous, like, what's so bad about that? But I think one of the worst, the trend that I'm hoping we, I'm hoping the Biden presidency kind of gets rid of the whole like resistant tweeter sort of thing.

Now, if we really wanted to be accurate about like worst tweet of the year, like we would give the airborne toxic event guy like a lifetime. Achievement Award. Oh, my God. Because this guy... How did he become, like, the big resistance guy? Like, he is the... He is the... He was an NPR...

Wasn't he like an NPR writer or something like that beforehand? He's like the indie rock. He's the indie rock Jeff Tedrich. That's what he is. Like, you just see him all over the place. And, you know, doing like, let me tell you something, Mr. President. Yeah. You know, you know.

Sir, have you no decency? Like, that whole... It's Dr. Biden. not Mrs. Biden. Yeah. You know, like 200,000 likes. You know? Yeah.

What? Like, who likes this garbage? Well, a lot of people do. And I think, you know, maybe it's, I don't know, the fact I live in Southern California, like you say, things are a bit different here. But it's that, sir, do you have no decency sort of bit? Or if you give, like, anything like Donald Trump says, like, he gets five Pinocchio's for this thing. It's this sort of, like, impotent. like liberal resistance Twitter stuff.

And it's usually, you know, from the Airborne Toxic Event guy or like some other 40-something artist or like, you know, your neighbor, it's acceptable. It's like, okay, well, this is what they need to get by. And, you know, at the end of the day, we're kind of on the same side. But to see this from like James Blake, I don't know if like being in a relationship with Jamilla Jamil, who is also like a legendary tweeter. Like back in the early 2000s, like there was like people would make jokes about like these rappers who would date Erica Badoo like Andre 3,000 and Common and Dead Prez and they would all of a sudden be like dressing real different. And like they would just like kind of stop rapping and become like kind of like neo soul. I don't know if James Blake is having that same effect. But like it's been a very interesting trajectory for this guy to go from this.

She's let him down the resistance Twitter path. I think there's no question. And the content of it, like this thing that was played out like a week after it was said back in, I don't know, 2018. And James Blake, I don't even know if he's American. I guess he lives in L.A. now. But just the combination of the author of it,

the content and the, oh my God, like, are we going to get like resistance Twitter for four more years? this one just struck me as it was a perfect storm of just bad Twitter and I'm looking at it right now and he's just got this wistful look in his eye as he's in a mountain scene

all right 2020 man that is 20 20 20 in a tweet even when you win you still sort of lose yeah a terrible tweet man we spent a lot of time on the James Blake tweet we got to move on here we have a lot of kids we got to keep it moving

This is why the Grammys are so long because they get distracted by James Blake tweets and then you have like four more categories you've got to blow through here. Our next category is the hey, I actually like this album artist award for basically like an artist that you came to like this year. And for me,

and it was also because of the record you put out this year, but also just in general, like I did more of a deep dive into this catalog than I'd ever done before. it was Sufian Stevens. And this has been sort of like a couple year process for me getting more into his work. Because like when he first emerged like in the mid-aughts and like Illinois was like his big record that was like the most acclaimed record. I think it was like 2005 that came out, 0506.

And we're going to talk about this later. But like that was the like record for me that was like really hyped that I did not like. and I was a little tired of always hearing about that record. And it's one of those things where you don't, where when you really don't maybe like a record that much, it just gets exacerbated by all the praise that it gets and you end up disliking it more than you probably should just because you're reacting to all these other people

in your mind over praising it. But the Sufian Stevens record that he put out this year, The Ascension, I really responded to, I thought it was like a really strong record. It almost made my year-end list. It'd be right outside the year-end list. But I have to say that, like, my favorite Sufian Stevens album that I listened to in 2020 was the age of odds. That was an album that I had sort of dabbled in before this year. But, like, in 2020, it really became a record that I really got into and just became fascinated with.

And just found myself really responding to that aspect of what Sufian Stevens does, the more sort of electronic. almost like a hybrid of like electronic music and Prague rock. Like that's what that record is. And there's some elements of that on the Ascension, although that record, the songs themselves aren't that complicated. It's just like a really long record. Whereas age of odds,

it is much more sort of convoluted, but in a really fascinating and I think ingenious way. So, yeah, I would say Sufian Stevens was the artist for me that like in the past, that was a little skeptical about him. But he really kind of came home for me this year. because of the Ascension and also just because I dug into his catalog more.

Yeah, for me, I want to give a kind of a special shout out to the fact I listened to a Velvet Underground album for the first time this year. Like, that's a whole other story about like why. Which one? All of them. They're really good. They're good band. Yeah, good band. But yeah, I think just my own sort of like antipathy towards like New York and like critical canon and all that sort of.

of stuff. Yeah, I made it a point and you know what? I now realize that it is true. Like 99% of all indie rock spawned from these four records and, you know, but beyond that, if we're talking about like newer acts, an album that came out after I made my year end list was the new and final Joan of Arc album. For, you know, those of you know, I'm familiar with Joan of Arc. It's led by Tim Kinsella. They've been around since I believe 1997. It's the act he started after cap and jazz imploded. And Joan of Arc, if they're known for anything amongst people our age or just music critics in general, is there's no band that has gotten worse, like worse pitchfork reviews and more bad pitchfork reviews than this one.

Like you look back at their, you look back at their archives and we're talking about like 1.9, 2.8. like they just despised by them to the point where that's like the one thing they're sort of known for even in the Tim Concella documentary that Vice ran they dedicate a lot of time to not saying that specifically but just how critics quote unquote hated them and you know I think it's it makes sense they're a really pretentious band intentionally like knowingly so and they make a lot of very unconventional difficult music but they put out an album about a week ago called Tim Molina Theo Bobby. It's named after the four members of the band.

Shockingly accessible. A lot of it does sound like, you know, maybe more like American football, which Tim Brothers Mike started. Really pretty electronic instrumentals. Melina is a vocalist who has a weird sort of twang. She plays a fake guitar on stage. And if this was like from a new band,

I think it would be a lot more hyped up, but with Joan of Arc, you're either there or you're not. And this, this, this, this, this inspired me to go back and listen to their very, very deep catalog. And yes, a lot of it is unconventional, maybe somewhat borderline unlistable. But I just, it's one of the best experiences to, to discover a band late in the game and then realize, oh, wow, I got 15 records I can listen to. Like, this is something I, that's unexplored because. You know, at times it feels like you've heard everything and, you know, there's really no, you know, past canon to look at. But, yeah, Joan of Arc, turns out if there's a Kinsella involved, I'm probably going to like it. All right, moving on to our next category.

I'm calling this the, hey, why isn't this on your list award? Oh, yeah. This is honoring the album that was a consensus favorite that we feel is actually overrated. And for me, this was a pretty easy choice. It has to be the Run the Jewel's album. My friend Rob Mitchum every year, he compiles a spreadsheet where he takes all the year-end lists that come out from publications and he creates sort of a composite score to show which albums did the best overall on all the big lists.

The Run the Jewels album, I think, is number three currently on that list. Like, it's ahead of the Waxahatchie record. It's ahead of like a lot of the other albums that we consider to be like the consensus picks this year. Like Run the Jewels is like right there with them. And you know, my feeling about Run the Jewels is I liked their first album. I thought it was like pretty good. After that, I just felt like it was more of the same with every album. And it just like I don't dislike it.

It's just not something that I find to be terribly exciting or interesting. It's pretty one note for me. And I have to say too that it's a little weird that this is the most critically acclaimed rap record of the year. Like these two guys, are they both in their 40s? Yeah, I would imagine they're both in their 40s. Like, I mean, they've been around since like the early 2000s, late 90s. So I don't know their exact age, but I would guess 40s. I mean, I don't keep close enough tabs on hip hop now, like to really know, like, if there are other albums that deserve to be.

higher than that, but like, it seems a little weird that, like, run the jewels is, like, still the go-to critics pick for, like, a rap record. It strikes me as, like, that being a choice when people just aren't being creative enough for picking albums. I don't, I don't know. I mean, maybe people really love that record, but I don't know. For me, you know, like, when I made my list, that's the one album that people asked about the most.

like why isn't this on your list? And it's just not something that I really ever responded to this year. And, you know, I'm not mad at them. You know, I don't dislike them. But I just can't really muster up much excitement for Run the Jewels at this point. Maybe people say, like, ask you like, hey, how come this is not on your list? Because I've called Run the Jewels the National of Dad Rap. So those are a couple things that might apply to you.

Was that an insult or a compliment? I can't really figure out. It is a value-free judgment. But yeah, I mean, I remember writing the pitchfork review for Run the Jules 2, which was like 2000, like words. And that ended up being the number one album of 2014. And I cannot remember a album that like I got tired of more quickly than Run the Jules 2. Like maybe it was just them being on every single festival, just really overexposed. And they continue to do the same thing.

And I don't know. like yeah, it slaps, but I need some sort of like resistance, you know, when something slaps. It, it just reminds me of like being at like Coachella eight at night, you know, it's, it's, I get nothing out of it. But, you know, I think it's properly rated by people who would like that sort of thing. It's just that I can't imagine like how you can look at 2020 and see this kind of conventional rap album as being like what really spoke to people. But for me, Yeah, I mean, I think it's fine for what it is, but just that it would be like number three. Like if you, when you compile all the list and it's like, I mean, because that shows that that album is like consistently in the top five.

I just, yeah. I just, yeah. That seems like a little too much. Yeah. To me, to me, it's like a Marvel movie in the sense that like, you know what's sort of going to happen. And, uh, yeah, I just can't emotionally invest in it. Like, it's, yeah. You know, if you like Run the Jewels, by all means, I hope you get to see them at like every single festival in 2020 when they come back.

But when it comes to overrated for me, like I, a lot of the albums that kind of top the list are ones that, you know, I can understand. They're well crafted, but maybe just not for me. So I have to think of overrated as being an album that would otherwise appeal to me. But I think that maybe it just didn't hit in the way I expected it to. And for me, that would be Eve's tumor. I really liked their 2018 album. It was kind of like harsh electronic music. And also a song that sounded like orgy, which I really appreciated.

But with this new album, and this one topped a lot of, you know, heaven to a tortured mind is the new one. This one topped a lot of critics lists. It came out on Warped. And I think what people, what happened here is that people sort of ran with the narrative that was being established where it was like, Eves Tumor is a new rock star. It's like this is a real rock star album because this as compared to the previous record, which was more like more sort of like Arka or one of a trick's point never. This was, there were some rock songs on here that sound a little bit more like Prince maybe in some places or a little bit more like David Bowie. and and and this album start like gospel for a new century the first song it is awesome and i think that song carried the weight for it but i what my problem with like oh yeah the new rock star sort of

thing with it's like i listened to this album like a dozen times and i cannot remember any songs from it besides gospel for a new century and this it makes me think back to how like it reminds me more of not a rock star, but like someone like, say, tricky from, you know, like, where it's like back in the days when like electronica is the new rock stuff, like rock music, trip hops, the new rock music. And it creates a good ambiance. And I like what it's doing sonically. But I think too often, and I think this is kind of true with St. Vincent as well, where people like would say that St. Vincent is the new Bowie. But in reality, I don't think she's really created a lot of songs that people really like. I think Eve's Tumor presents what a great idea of a rock star in 2020, but it lacks like songs that I can actually remember.

Like I'll listen to, I just listened to album the other day and I just found myself kind of zoning out, which is really not what, you know, not what like a top 10 album consensus should really be doing. I see this person going on kind of a tricky trajectory, and hopefully they'll, like, tricky, collaborate with, you know, our decade's version of Ed Kowalchik, you know? Well, I mean, I... I know you love this record. This was in my top ten, and I mean, I would say that the most memorable song for me is kerosene. I think that's a great song.

That one's good, too. And I think when people talk about, you know, this being like a rock record, I mean, to me, it's because there's, like, lots of great guitar solo. It has like a vibe to it that I understand what you're saying about the songs not standing out. I kind of feel like it's a record. In my write-up of it, I likened it to albums like Goat's Head Soup by the Rolling Stones and there's a right going on by Sly Stone, like these early 70s kind of drugged out swampy, murky albums that are, I think, more about a vibe and creating something that's like greater than the sum of its parts, like, where you're sort of immersing yourself in this, like,

scummy, you know, seductive, like, setting, like, environmentallyally, you know, that to me is the strength of that record. I can understand, like, if you're trying to break it down into tracks that you're going to put on a playlist or something, I don't know if that album works as well. I think it really is an album in the sense that it's best enjoyed if you listen to it from beginning to end. But, so yeah, I like that. I'm going to disagree with you on there. I like that record a lot.

But, you know, agree to disagree on that one. I think we're on the same page with Run the Jewels, though. Yeah, which is strange because, like, we're 40, like, by the way, they're both, Killer Mike, LP, both 45. This should be, like, the one rap album that we're willing to engage with. Like, if any, it's like, run the jewels is made for us, you know? It's like, right. And it's in the same category, and I don't mean this is an insult. Like, Jason Isbell fans are like Run the Jules fans.

Like it's, it's that dad rock sort of college football, Twitter. But apparently its reach is far broader than we could possibly imagine. Like, I'm just sort of amazed like how despite everything being turned upside down in 2020, like people thought like a Run the Jules album was the Sound of Revolution. And maybe it is in the sense of like that. James Blake tweet where it's just going to kind of be the same except a little bit different, you know, going forward. Maybe people are just nostalgic for the Obama years. So like they're in the list of Rundi Jules and it reminds them of the mid-2010s. Moving on to our next category,

this is, you call this the Phoebe Bridgers Award. It is for the most overhyped album that actually deserves the praise. So again, like an album that gets that, you know, ends up on a lot of year end list near the top. But actually, we feel like, you know, it earned the right to be there. And I had to say that, like, with the exception of Run the Jewels, you know, when I was looking at Rob's spreadsheet of all the albums that are ending up, you know, at the top of Year Endless, I have to say, like, for the most part, like, I like most of the albums. Like, and it really is, I think, different than most years, because there's usually, like, one album that stands out to me as being like, ah, I can't stand that record. Yeah. And it's on all these year-end lists.

I'm not really finding that this year. I love the Phoebe Bridges record. I love the Waxahatchee record. You know, the Fiona Apple record, fetch the bolt cutters. I love that record, too. Like, I guess I'll say that record because I feel like, you know, that album, I mean, it got a 10.0 from Pitchfork, which I don't know if I'd give it a 10.0, but I'd give it, I'd give it like a 9 or something.

or like a high eight. I mean, I think it's a great record. Yeah. So, yeah, even though, you know, people were talking about that all the time. And I would have been irritated if I didn't think that record was good. But, like, I did think the record was good. So I was like, okay, yeah, great. I'm glad people are praising Fiona.

I'm sure that you have a choice here. Yeah. Because I feel like you tend to be more resistant to, like, the hyped records. Yeah. But, like, is there any hyped record that you thought actually deserve? the praise. Yeah, I mean, I do think that all the records that are at the top, like, are well crafted. Like, there's nothing where I think people got kind of, you know, fooled.

Well, maybe. We'll talk about it in a bit. But I think that, I don't know. And the one out, the one upshot of, like, you know, like music critics, like kind of having much more of a hive mind than before is that I look at this list and this seems pretty sturdy. But, you know, the reason I call it the Phoebe Bridgers Award is because, you know, Phoebe Bridgers out of all the artists here, like she has the most active Twitter presence. She does the most stuff publicly that could possibly rub people the wrong way or that could have people turn on her. And when I listen to Punisher, like, this is a record that, you know, when you look back at her past three years after, you know, putting out strangers in the Alps and boy genius, I mean, and better oblivion communities. Center. The fact that she actually

made good on that hype is just really hard to believe. I can't imagine what kind of pressure she must have been under to really deliver with Punisher. But I mean, this album, if I were, like, look, if I was like 22, this album, I would probably get like tattoos of these lyrics. But, you know, even now, it reminds me of like what it must have been like to hear, like, let's say Bright Eyes Lifted for the first time or, you know, Rial O'Kiley's, the execution of all things. This just incredibly well crafted and exciting in a way. It really kind of captured 2020 in a way that didn't seem like too on the nose. Like it was clearly created

before 2020, but it was just right on time. It's enjoyable and it's very accessible, but also it provides like layers of like lyrics and just like endlessly quotable. I mean, I put it in my top 10. It was the one record where I really felt I was, you know, on in concurrence with the narrative. And, you know, that's a good feeling. You know, I know that in a lot of ways I like to be maybe a contrarian. But like, I do, I do miss those days where I, my like, my year end list would like kind of

resemble that of, you know, what ended up being in Pazzoop or whatever. Oh, and shout to Rob Mitchum. Like, this is God's work right here. I'll forgive him for, you know, Rob Mitchum was a guy who shit on so many emo records in the early 2000s at Pitchfork, like DeSaparacitos, but that's my dude. I love that Rob does this. Yeah, and, you know, going back to Phoebe Bridgers, I feel like, you know, either she or like her publicist deserves an award for keeping her her, like, in the conversation, keeping her in my Twitter timeline, like, practically every week. Every, okay. She's either doing, like, a Goo Goo Dole's cover, or she's, like, on a talk show doing, like, a cool,

like, music performance, or she's, like, doing an interview where she's, like, making fun of Eric Clapton, or she's, you know, she did something every week, I feel like, that kept her, present and prevented this record from disappearing like pretty much every other indie record this year. And that's also due to the record being really great. Oh, yeah. But, I mean, the promotion of Phoebe Bridgers, I thought was like pretty genius this year

and that like it was constant and yet I didn't feel like it was oppressive. I'm sure there's people out there that probably got to give. Oh, no, there are people who can't stand her. Hearing from her, right. I'm sure there are. I mean, because she really was, I think, Certainly in the indie world, she was the most ubiquitous person this year.

I mean, you could not get away from Vibrippers. I happen to like her. I like her music. And I think, you know, I've interviewed her a bunch of times. I think she's really funny and engaging. And I, so I'm a fan of her just as a person. But, yeah, I mean, whether that's going to spark a backlash at some point, that's significant. I'm curious to see if that happens.

But in 2020, like, she was promoted, I think, pretty serious. skillfully. Like, to the point where, you know, she didn't tour, but it still felt like she was like a breakout star. Like she could keep herself present in a way that like no other artist I feel like was able to do. Yeah. It's, you know, it's, it's really incredible. Even if the record was like just kind of okay, being able to like get through 2020 and be

that on the present, but also like never tip it over to the point where there maybe, like, look, maybe there's a backlash brewing. think that the goodwill she's generated amongst like across generations. I think she's safe, you know, for now. Maybe in 2020, maybe in 2020, there's a record that comes, she puts out a record that just like, we're like,

you know, like like an arcade fire sort of backlash or all the people who like secretly stued over Punisher are like now at the wheel and they get to, you know, get their licks in. But, you know, I think she won 2020 in a way. I say that in a way that makes me feel like disgusting, because I hate saying, like, what if who killed it in 2020, you know? I know.

Well, what if Elon Musk, like, divorces or breaks up with Grimes and then marries Phoebe Bridgers? I feel like that would derail her. But short of that, I think she's going to be okay. Yeah. So Phoebe Bridgers just don't marry Elon Musk and you'll be all good. Or do. I don't, maybe she can pull that off too. I don't know.

Maybe she could. Maybe she would redeem Elon Musk. Who knows? our last category of the IndyCasees in 2020, the most 2020 album of 2020. And this is for the record that, and I mean, this could be construed as a negative thing. I don't necessarily think it's a negative thing,

but it's the album that we think that when people look back on 2020, people are going to say that was the album that is most specific to that year, that signifies everything that we associate with that year. And again, that can be a negative thing or it could be a tremendous honor. The album I'm picking, I guess it's maybe more of a negative thing.

It's ultra mono by idols. Yes. A band that we've taken some shots at idols on this podcast. No, I guess all disrespect to them, but like, you know, nothing personal to them. But, you know, to me, like this is kind of like a minor record. It's not, you know, one of the flagship albums, although I think it's doing fairly well.

I'm looking at Rob Mitchum's list, and it's number 41 between microphone. and Beatrice Dillon and above Deftone. So, and the weekend. So it's solid. Top 50. See, because to me, this record comes to mind just because I feel like it personifies this. I think anxiety among like a certain class of like indie guy where you have to bend over backwards to prove that you're not one of the bad ones.

You know, like I'm one of the good guys. So I'm going to like hit all of the sort of class. social justice benchmarks in the music in the most sort of obvious way possible with maybe not a whole lot of insight, but almost like checking off a list of like what people are talking about so I can be perceived in a certain kind of way. Set to music that is, you know, as unforward thinking, if I can make up that term, as the lyrics are supposedly forward thinking. Like pretty like run of the mill rock music. To me, I feel like this is a record that,

like I don't know if people are going to care about idols in five years. Maybe they will. I suspect that this is a band that's going to fade. And they will be the landfill indie, you know, equivalent of like this era. You know, that's my feeling about them. I could be wrong. And I hope they prove me wrong. I hope they have a great career.

But that's just my gut feeling about them at this point. So I just feel like, When we look back on 2020, people are going to look at this. They're going to look at that ridiculous album cover where it's like a, is that like a ball, like a red ball hitting a guy in the face? I don't think it's that bad of a cover. Okay. Well, I just think that's going to be a meme for 2020 rock when people want to make jokes about like 2020 in the future.

So yeah, that would be my choice for most 2020 album. Yeah. When we talk about like the most 2020 album, I think that like the, the, the, subtext is the one that we might expect to like age the worst. And that's always tough to predict because I mean like I can't tell the future. But I think it has to be something that what like when like when I when I look back at like 2016 or 2015 as I started to like kind of do a little bit of research. What stood out to me is that the stuff that like seems the most ridiculous or either like a

rapper that gets super popular and that people are like haven't quite turned on yet such as chance the rapper, like someone who you get a sense that a backlash is just being like kind of snuffed out. Or there's like some indie artist who there's a big discrepancy between like the critical enjoyment of that artist and like the public perception of it. You know, something like, I don't know, like tune yards or whatever where you get a sense that like this is a critic thing. And I think that like this year, there isn't a lot of great, there are not a lot of great candidates because everything just seems so thoroughly vetted and sturdy. It was a big year for like singer-songwriter artists who have been already very much approved.

But, you know, when I look at this list and I mean, we could talk about stuff like, you know, the machine gun Kelly pop punk album or Megan Nies Stallion. I mean, I think those speak more to 2020, like what it was like from the pop sense. But if I'm looking at the top 20 or so and think of the record where people might. might look back and say, man, what, like, I don't know about this. I have to go with this, uh, this act called salt. It's S-A-U-L-T. Anonymous, uh, act from the UK who topped a lot of year end lists, um, with two records.

One being untitled Black is and another being untitled rise. And I tried listening to this record. I think that, um, when you talk about like, uh, in 2020, people wanting to be like, um, yeah, like, resistance. Twitter, if you will, that like Jeff Tedrick or what or whatnot. This one, like, I think people really wanted a, like, Black Messiah by DeAngelo in 2014 or to Pimp a Butterfly. Like, I think there was this desire for this one record to explain everything to be the sound

of the riots and all of, you know, the election and just something that like really summed up politically. what was happening in 2020 and I tried listening to this album and to me it sounded like okay if you ever been to a music festival you maybe heard of a band called Jungle they play like kind of

it sounds in a lot of ways like cooling the gang or just or earthwind and fire like a real heavily orchestrated like you know disco or funk and and but with salt there's there's first off they're an anonymous band so you'd never

really get a sense of perspective, but a lot of their lyrics just sound like kind of bumper stickery. And when people listen to this record, like, you feel like, okay, I'm a good, like, I'm a good person for listening to this. This is talking about, like, you know, resistance and it's talking about rising up and these real generalities. And I think that I'm going to have to steal something that a writer at Pitchfork, I won't say who it was said about this. It's like, when Netflix makes a a movie about the riots in 2021, this is going to be the soundtrack. And they did not mean that as a compliment. To me, when I listened to Salt, I just think of like, it just reminds me of this sort of,

like, in 2016, when like you hear fight song at Hillary Clinton rallies, this sort of like impotent, like, we're going to rise up sort of perspective. Whereas, like, during the riots this year, like, what would you, what you really heard was like stuff like, you know, like pop smoke or like Lujo job or whatever. I think that this album is a real sort of Netflix version of what actually happened. And it was a, I got the sense that people were trying to like kind of force a sense of importance on it. That really wasn't warranted by the music. I mean, it meant well like so many of us do.

But yeah, I think that this one we're going to look back and think, I don't, I think this one might be forgettable in a couple years, if not one that we look back to like, you know, what the heck were we thinking? That album, I feel like I didn't hear about it until I started hearing about year-end list discourse. Like, yeah, I heard about this album a bunch. It's like the black pumas of critically acclaimed albums. Yeah, the black pumas. Oh my God. They're like, album of the year.

And like, I was aware of black pumas, but I'm like, really? Like, who the hell is this band? So, yeah, I have to admit I have not heard that record, and your description does not make me excited to check it out. But, you know, maybe I will, because we'll have a lot of time to listen to music for the next two weeks because we will not be doing any indie cast episodes. I hope all of you listeners out there can muddle through the holidays without us, but we're going to take a little vacation here. But we'll be back in January with more indie cast episodes. We'll find something to talk about. I don't know if anything is happening in January.

January. But I don't know, we'll just, we'll just talk about James Blake, I think, maybe during that time. I think we've got a lot of James Blake conversation in us. I do think it is the 10 year anniversary of his self-titled album. Like, oh my God. Yeah. Yeah, 2011. Look back at 2011, like the, oh my, like the first Joyce Manor record came out in January 2011. And that's as far away from now as like the, the strokes was in 2011. So, just. We're marching towards the grave here, man. Time. If you take anything, if you take anything away from Indycast, is that the inexorable march of time is, yeah. It's coming for all of us.

Well, thank you for listening to this show. We'll leave it on that note. If you enjoy our show, I would encourage you to leave a review on iTunes or wherever it is you get your pods. reviews help the show. The more reviews we have, the algorithm I'm told is kinder to us. It will give us better placement.

It'll help us grow the audience. So if you can do that for us, I'd really appreciate it. Otherwise, I hope everyone has a good holiday. Ian, I hope you have a good holiday break. You too, man. Looking forward to talking more and hashing out trends and reviewing records in 2021.

Until then, everyone, yes. Have a good new year. We'll see you in 2021. Thank you.