Indiecast - The Many Live Albums Of 2020

Episode Date: November 20, 2020

Something we can all agree upon is that it’s been far too long since we’ve heard live music in person. In 2020, recordings of live shows feel more relevant than ever, with the roar of a crowd imbuing nostalgia for a simpler time. This is the central focus of our latest episode, which finds Steven and Ian digging in to the swath of live albums that are on the docket for the remainder of the year, including forthcoming releases from The War On Drugs, Arctic Monkeys, and The Postal Service.2020 has forced artists to get creative in how they connect with fans, and are utilizing live streams and live albums to remind music lovers of why shows are such a vital part of their lives. Sometimes, these live albums offers listeners a glimpse at exciting alternate versions of the songs they know and love, with improvised sections, different arrangements, and elongated instrumental sections. Other times, they just feel like relics of a lost art.In this week’s Recommendation Corner, Cohen is endorsing 'Summer Sleeping,' the new EP from Indiana quartet Thunder Dreamer. Hyden is advocating for the new Ganser album, 'Just Look At That Sky,' which he believes is being slept on by most.Check out Steven's ranking of the best live albums of all time here and sign up for the Indie Mixtape newsletter here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we're going to be talking about the resurgence of live albums in 2020 and also the future of live music and whether we're just going to be watching it on our computer screens from now on. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host, Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you?

Steve, I don't know if it's people. needing a break after the election or whether, you know, they're just looking forward to Thanksgiving or conserving their energy before the year endless. But this week just seemed like a legendarily dry time for hot takes. Like what were we what were we fighting about online this week? Like relitigating. We were relitigating Harry Styles wearing a dress on the cover of vote like Ben Shapiro like terrible. story. I hated that story instantly. You know, I, look, do we have to defend pop stars from every lame attack? From Benchip hero, man. It's like, yeah, it's like, do we have to write think pieces now

about how, you know, yeah, Harry Style should be able to wear a dress in vogue? And who cares, man? Like, that story, it irritated me from the jump. Yeah. Man, didn't we like do this like five times in his press cycle. And I think the other thing, like, I can't, I think the other thing was, like, talking about, like, whether slow dive was male manipulator music. Oh, right. Yeah, yeah. That was a good one.

These were the things that we hashed out this week. And, man, Thanksgiving just cannot come fast enough. It's like, there's always this, like, one week in the college football season where, like, the season's heating up. And then all of a sudden, like, everyone plays their, like, non-conference games, like, Alabama's playing Western Carolina. just to give themselves a break. And I think that, you know, that happened to us this week.

But I'll tell you what, Indycast never, Indycast is never not on the grind. So we are here to save this week. Well, I was going to say, like, I think, would you say that Indycast is male manipulator music? I think maybe this podcast is a red flag. I'd like to get that trend going. If someone, if some random Twitter account could get that rolling for us. Yeah. We need some controversy to get us to that next level.

Yeah. We could use some negative pub for this podcast. I think that would help. It's always good to have a little negative pub. It shows that you're stirring the pot. Helps us with the next contract negotiation, you know? Exactly. So, speaking of which, yeah, we're going to just talk about Harry Stiles' dress in this episode. This is going to be 60 minutes of debate about Harry Stiles' dress.

Spoiler alert, we both agree that he can wear a dress. Yeah, and we brought the entire staff of Rolling Stone here to debate it. It's going to be an eight-part series. We all agree, but we're still going to debate it regardless. No, we're not going to be doing that. We're going to be talking about live albums, which is a topic I am very interested in, and this has been an interesting year for live albums in sort of a surprising way, but really maybe not a surprising way.

But before we get to that, we have our mailbag segment, And this is one of my favorite parts of our episode. I love mixing it up with our readers. I always say readers. I'm just a writer first, not a podcaster, I think. They're probably readers, though, of us, too, right? I mean, they're probably readers as well as listeners. Yeah.

I do wonder how much, like, the podcast is, like, expanded the readership as opposed to just, like, deepened it. But either way, man, if, like, you're listening, like, thanks, man. It means it's super meaningful either way. I'd like to think that there's like people out there that have never read anything. Either one of us have written, but they love the show. It's like I don't like to read music criticism, but I like hearing people talk about music criticism or perform music criticism orally. So I'm just listening to your show.

Wait a minute. Write us an email. Are we saying Indycast live, like doing the live stream is the future of that? the podcast. Like maybe that, maybe that's the upshot of this entire episode. I mean, each podcast is a live album. Yes. But, because we are, we are recording live. There are no overdubs. There's minimal editing. Yeah. But, you know, other than that, this is, this is pure unfiltered, uh, jams in the, in every episode. True. But, you know, you can't, you just, you just need the visual aspect, I think, with this. Oh, man, I don't,

it's like, it's like, you wouldn't let, you wouldn't do Pink Floyd live at Pompey without, like, the visual. And I think we, every episode, do Pink Floyd live in Pompeii except talking about, like, I don't know, war on drugs. But, you know, that was Pink Floyd when they were young and they could perform without shirts on. Like, we're at our, like, you know, we're in the momentary lapse of reason part of our careers, I think, right now,

where you don't really need to see Pink Floyd at that time. Anyway, okay, so let's get to our question. This is from Patrick. Thank you, Patrick, for writing in. This is his question. He says, I'd like to get your thoughts on King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard Wizard, specifically their crossover appeal between disparate guitar genre fan bases. King Gizzard, talismans of the psych rock scene with indie rock creed.

Crayad, I kind of said that with the southern accent, appear to be gaining traction with a notoriously insular fish fan base. I love the fish reference because it indicates that this person was, Maybe thinking of me specifically. Yes. If they had dropped like a dog leg reference there, it would have been one of your people. I think their profile is going to increase greatly in 2021 with the eventual return of live music. They could become one of the touring dynamos of the next few decades and start playing smaller sports venues, possibly garning a fan base closer to fish.

I guess meaning like a cult band that is able to play arenas, which is what fish can do. what do you think King Gizzard's trajectory is? I absolutely love the podcast and I hope you guys discuss this fascinating band at some point. Now, thank you, Patrick, for that question. This is a pertinent question because King Gizzard has a new record out today. Oh, wow. I believe. Wow, like, what's it?

This, like, their 12th of 2020, like, they might have another one out by the time this air. So, like, let's the... No, this is, like, their first studio record in over a year. Like they dropped two live records earlier this year, live in Paris and live in Adelaide. The new record that's out today is called KG. I haven't heard that record yet. I will be checking that out. I may be listening to that album Friday morning when this podcast goes up.

I'm definitely going to be checking that out. But yeah, you know, as far as King Gazard and the Lizard Wizard, again, for those who don't know, this is a band from Australia. They are famously prolific. I guess indie famously prolific. They're known for putting out a lot of albums and also albums in different styles. They put out sort of like manic punk rock records. They put out more sort of psychedelic type records.

They put out like kind of sunshine pop sounding albums. And I've dabbled in them. There's a few albums of theirs that I own. I did pick up those live records that came out earlier this year. And I have to say, like, I love the idea of this. band. I love, you know, I love prolific bands. I love a lot of the genres that they've, that they've worked in. And, you know, similar to our listener, I love the idea of there being like an indie rock band that is adventurous live, that's doing a lot of different kinds of live sets that can build more of a jam band

type following, even though I don't think King Gizzard really can be described as a jam band. although I think there's some elements of improvisation in their shows. But I have to say that I haven't fully connected with this band yet. Just in terms of their songs, I don't feel like the songs for me have been all that memorable. It's more about sort of the visceral impact of their music, especially they're more sort of up-tempo stuff, which is really highlighted on those live records. There's a ton of energy on those albums that I appreciate. But again, the songs don't always quite stick for me.

in a way they remind me of that band the OCs who I think are they have some similar sort of sonic attributes I think they have a similar kind of following where the OCs don't get a ton of mainstream music coverage but I feel like they have a huge following especially among maybe dudes our age I have a bunch of friends who like love the OCs and I have to say I like the OCs a little bit more because I've actually seen them live and they're a fantastic live band and I have a feeling that if I get to see

King Gizzard and I was going to see them this year. They were coming to the Twin Cities and I was planning on checking out their show. So I'm sad to have missed that. I think if I see them live, it'll maybe click for me. But so far it's like I'm kind of halfway there to being a fan, but I'm not fully invested yet. How do you feel about them? I feel like this fans aren't in your wheelhouse, really. Well, here's the thing. I do find them to be a very fascinating entity. And look, as much as I love our listeners and I love what we do and I respect the hell out of like what we put out so far. If we were to just completely pivot into covering King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizards releases every week on this podcast, like if we were just to go full King Gizzard, I think our, I think our listenership would probably like triple or quadruple or something like that.

Because this band, as you mentioned, I think psychedelic rock, you know, of this sort like, The bands that exist in the jam band's psychedelic rock sort of continuum are probably the most underserved fan base as far as like music writing goes. They like when in 2019, I think Cream, the magazine made a documentary. And I thought to myself, like what if there was a kind of a similar leading publication that just considered King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard and like the, the OCs and Ty Siegel, the pinnacle of modern music. I think that there is such a large audience for it. I know it because I live in the part of the country that does desert days. It seems like my in real life friends who are like in the music all seem to gravitate

towards jam band type stuff. And look, I mean, I would imagine if I saw them live, I would be super into. to it as well. I remember seeing, you remember the band called Goat? They were, I think, I think they were Australian as well. They were on subpop, I think, and they wore masks. I think similar sort of vibe to, if not like in sound, but just a similar idea. And I saw him for like 35, 40 minutes at Coachella one year. And I thought, this is fun. Like, would I see three hours of it? No. I mean, in general, you are correct in that like the new, psychedelic rock or garage rock scene like is means absolutely nothing to me on a songwriting level.

Like I am fascinated by people who can become emotionally invested in like the OCs or Ty Siegel. Like I get why they like them. But like I don't know if anyone has like an emotional connection to this music at all. Like whether it moves them in any sort of way or whether it's just cool to see like three drummers on stage, which inevitably it is. I listen to well, I listen to one album of. theirs, King Gizzard. It was Polygon Dwanaland in 2017. And you know what? I kind of dug it. I didn't want to, I had no desire to listen to it again. But I respect this realm of music just because, like, they have absolutely no need to follow a narrative of any sort.

Like, they are just, they, there's something weirdly honest about people who are like straight up King Gizard. Gizzard fans. Or maybe there is like, you know, a whole bunch of people like calling out industry plants in the psych rock jam band world. Well, I mean, I think, you know, to go back to what you're saying about like, do people feel emotionally connected to this music? I think they absolutely do. And I think, you know, the people who are into it are really into it, I think partly because it is not covered by music publications. In a way, I feel like that is a plus for a lot of these spans because it feels more countercultural to dig into this kind of stuff. And I mean, look, we're two music critics, so we're always going to be looking at this kind of stuff through the prism

of music criticism and whether things are being covered or not. And we have this bias toward like, well, things should be covered. They should be written about. But I do think that on some level, there's a real benefit to not being overexposed and not being think peace to death. And I think that for a lot of these bands, one thing I really respect about them is that there isn't this sort of expectation that they're even going to be covered. You know, because you definitely see, I think, in the indie world, sometimes there's bands who get a little bit huffy because they don't feel like to get enough attention from music critics. And I think they feel as though that if they get, you know, a review in pitchfork, that that's going to make their career,

that they're going to be more famous. And one thing I love about bands like this is that, like, if they get reviewed or not, it doesn't really matter. And it doesn't even matter to their fans, they're going to love them anyway. Yeah. And in a way, it's like, if big music publications are covering these bands, it's almost like, well, you're crashing the party. Like, in a way, you might ruin the party by showing up. So it's like we're going to build our own scene and be self-sustaining and, you know, not have to depend on sort of the whims of a very fickle mainstream music media.

So, you know, I really love that about these bands. And I think, again, like, from our standpoint, I think, journalistically, you have I think you can justify covering these bands. I think they deserve to be covered. But from their perspective, I could see them easily saying, no, continue to ignore us. Like, we're doing fine as we are. And please don't ruin the good thing that we have here.

So it's a good segue to talking about our main topic in this episode, which is live albums. You know, I mentioned King Gizzard has put out two live records already this year. And it's been interesting because I feel like, you know, there's always live records that are coming out. Obviously, there's bands that actually allow taping at their shows. So there's always going to be some groups that have like a ton of live material, no matter what's going on in the world.

But it does seem like there are more live albums to me, like by prominent groups that have been coming out this year, and especially now at the end of the year, we're getting a bunch. Today is the release of the new War on Drugs album, Live Drugs. In a few weeks, we're going to have live records from Deaf Heaven, Arctic Monkeys. the Postal Service is putting on a live record. I don't really understand the point of that personally. I don't know.

I'm curious to hear what that would even be like. That's not a band that I ever thought. Did they even ever play live shows? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I saw him at Coachella. There's that Sun Kill Moon song. Ben's my friend about a Postal Service show.

Okay. I just don't see the point of seeing them live. Are they like... Look, if you're someone who loves the Postal Service album, give up and I think that it's it's I don't know if it's the best selling album on subpop history I think that would still be bleached by never by Nirvana but it's probably number two yeah when people love that album and they just want to go to see it live I mean does it can't you just go to your friend's apartment and get drunk and put on the the album I mean I feel like

that would be the same experience well I'm like I'm not saying I'm not saying it's on a good album I'm just saying that they don't strike me as like a yeah but I I A band you have to see live. Yeah, no, and I don't think so either. But, I mean, it's cool to see, like, you know, the, when you, depending on who the co-vocalyst is, I think when I saw him a Coachella, like, Jenny Lewis showed up to do her parts and that was fun to see. And, you know, maybe you get cool, like, audiovisual things going on just because, like, they don't have to really focus on, you know, playing guitar, drums, like live. I mean, you could tech, like, it would be interesting to see them take that music in a more organic way. just for kicks, but I think that with this particular release, you know, you're going to get like

the one Postal Service album and like a couple of covers and maybe a B-side and, you know, just it's content. It exists and, you know, good for them. Well, good for them. You know, they're coming back. They took some guff because they had that comeback announcement and then they just told people to vote. People were like, well, I thought you were going to drop a new album or something. Well, they did both. And you know what? Like, if when we look back on the 2020 election, I'm just going to think back to the time that Ben Gibbard told me to vote. That was the real

turning point for our nation. Postal service bump. But what if secretly more Trump people voted? Because they're like, because they weren't specific part, you know, could have been a lot of Trump fans that love postal service. You never know. You know, it's been a while since the early odds. People that were liberal then, they could have, you know, grown up and become Q&N supporters in the last 15 years. You never know. Going back to the War on Drugs album, which again comes out today, it will shock no one when I say that I love this album. I wrote about this record earlier this week. I actually wrote a piece on my favorite War on Drugs live bootlegs. So if you go on Up Rocks, you can check that out. There's a lot of great albums that you can find on Live Archive, or if you get the Relisten app, that's a great

place to check out bootlegs. There's a ton of good Warren Drugs albums on there. But the live album, live drugs. This is an interesting record because they do something on here that I normally don't like, which is editing a bunch of concerts together, sometimes within the space of a single song. Like there's songs on here that, like, might have, it might be like six different versions of under the pressure, edited into like one super Frankenstein under the pressure. And normally I don't really like that.

I kind of like the feel of a complete show, the documentary aspect, the feeling as if I'm actually in a venue and hearing a band, that tends to be what I like more. But on live drugs, they integrate all these different versions pretty seamlessly. So, like, I didn't know that until I read the Stereo Gum interview that Adam gave last week. So I haven't heard the other live records yet, like the Arctic Monkeys record I haven't heard of the Deaf Heaven record. But I love live drugs. Have you heard live drugs yet? Yeah, I've heard a few songs. And I mean, I think it's very appropriate when you think about, like, War on Drugs as a studio band,

how Adam will take, like, years to tweak phaser pedals and, like, EQing. And, you know, particularly nowadays, it takes, like, three or four years between albums for him to just go into the booth and listen to, like, dozens upon dozens of war on drug songs to find. like to isolate a few seconds of like yeah this is the best part of red eyes i'm going to do this woo um so that makes sense to me um as far as this record um look i i like the i like the war on drugs a lot uh all their albums as far as like a i think of them uh as being like maybe in a position where it's sort of like when wilco released kicking television or my morning jacket it released Okanokos. I think that's how it's pronounced in 05, 06 or whatever.

And then I look at the track listing. The War on Drugs have only four albums. They are not like a deep cut kind of band yet. And so it's cool they have greatest hits. On the other hand, you could argue that their last two albums are greatest hits. Like I think there's one song from Wagon Wheel Blues on here and a cover and otherwise, like, their best known stuff. So I think it does kind of function as a greatest hits album for a band that doesn't really

need a greatest hits yet. That being said, when I listen, I think the production on War on Drugs albums is like just as important as like the songwriting, like the immersiveness of it. But the one thing I do always kind of wish is that like the guitar solo from Strangest thing would go on for like five more minutes or like red eye would red eyes. would kind of go on for longer. So that part's good for me as far as, like, would I ever listen to live drugs compared to, say,

a loss in the dream or a deeper understanding? Probably not. And if I'm looking at, is there any, are there any songs from a slave ambient on this one? I don't think so. No, it's like, it's definitely, you know, I mean, I think Adam even talked about this. This is like a representation of the band.

Essentially from like 2014 on, you know, when they became the lineup that they are right now. And you mentioned kicking television, the Wilco live record. I think that's a good comparison because I feel like that record was very much about establishing, like, that lineup of Wilco. After several years of instability, like where Jay Bennett left, and then, you know, Leroy Bach was in there for a while, and then he left. And the kicking television lineup, that's where you have, like, Nels Klein, you know, Glenn Cochie, of course, is in the fold. I think Patrick Sansone was in the band by then. You know, basically the lineup that they've had for the last 15 years was really, I think, it was like they were presented to the world on kicking television.

And I think that this War on Drugs Live album has a similar function, like where, you know, starting with that Lost in the Dream Tour, that's where they had like the full band lineup that's like where John Natchez is coming in, Anthony Lamarca, you know, joining, you know, Robbie Bennett. And Dave Hartley, you know, the steady lineup. And I think, you know, the argument I would make for live drugs, along with the greatest hits thing that you mentioned earlier, which I think it is a good sampler of their, certainly their recent output,

is that it makes a case for the war on drugs being a band. Yeah. As opposed to just being like a solo project for Adam, which is how they're presented on their live records. I think that the band aspect does come through clearer on the live. record than it does sometimes on their albums. And, you know, we mentioned King Gizzard having some overlap with the jam band world. I think Lauren Drugs is also like one of those bands that appeals to that audience, just because,

again, they're not quite a jam band, but there is enough elements to what they do where when they play live, there is some rearrangement of songs. They're rearranging their, the arrangements of like, Eyes of the Wind is like fairly different on the live record than it is on the album, for instance. And like you said about like the strangest thing, guitar solo, like the guitar solo on this record are louder and they go longer, which for me is like reason enough to like this record. But it is interesting that, you know,

that some of things you were saying about like what I would listen to this versus a studio record. It does point to like the larger questions about live records in general. Like my feeling is that I probably like live records more than you. Like I wrote a piece earlier this year. I wrote about my favorite live albums. I wrote about like 50 live albums that I really love. Which I just love this format.

This is, it's interesting because I feel like there's people that really love live records. But I think overall people are pretty indifferent toward them. I think they are more of a niche product. And I think it is probably dependent on like what kind of music you like. Like if you are a person who likes, bands that stretch out live, that improvise a bit more live, or if you're a person who just likes classic rock, maybe, I think you tend to like live records.

You know, like, I've been listening to Mad Dogs and Englishmen a lot lately, the Joe Cocker live record. Like, I think that's a great record from 1970, you know. And again, I go back to the documentary aspect of it. Like, I like listening to that record and feeling like, oh, this is what it was maybe like at the Fillmore East in 1970, a place I'll never get to go to. or if I listen to James Brown live at the Apollo.

Oh, yeah, that one, yeah. You get the vibe of like the Apollo in 1962, like the time travel aspect of live records I always really like. And, you know, that's why a record like Live Drugs, while I love Live Drugs, I tend to not like it when they edit a bunch of performances together. I like the idea of a single performance, you know, a moment in time that's been captured.

And you're also not just getting the band, but you're also getting the atmosphere of the venue. you and I always really love that aspect of live records. But like what are your feelings about this? Do you ever get excited about a live record or do you just think they're sort of redundant? Yeah, I mean, I love live music, but like for the experience of it, when you talk about like the documentary aspect of like listening to a James Brown album, absolutely. Joe Cocker, I did not expect that to be brought up on Indycast.

Great live record. That's a great live record. Yeah. Go check it out. But as far as. like what a live record is meant to achieve. I liked something like daft punk's alive that came out in 2007 where the music is fundamentally altered. They kind of like mashed up and segued a lot of their music. So I think that was a good one. Built a Spills live album was surprisingly good just because

I think I'd put it along the lines of like, you know, kicking television and Okinocos because like those two bands, like Built a Spill had really evolved quite a few times. up to that point. Same with like Wilco. They had gone from, you know, they had songs, I think,

from like being there up until a ghost is born, just wildly different stuff. And, you know, my morning jacket as well, like they put theirs out immediately after Z. And it kind of shows a band's trajectory,

but also like how it all comes from the same source. And, you know, the war on drugs, like I don't, like they have certainly evolved from wagon wheel blues. But I think that a deeper understanding and, you know, Lost in the Dream are kind of the same sort, cut from the same cloth.

Those are fine, but like otherwise, like live albums to me usually signify some sort of like contractual obligation or, you know, need to put out content. I would say as far as like, it takes all the things away from live music that I enjoy, which is like the social aspect. If I were to watch like a live DVD, yeah, I think that would be more. more to my tastes, particularly if it's like an iconic performance. Like I remember I bought the DVD of the Cures trilogy where they played pornography, disintegration, and bloodflowers.

And, you know, that was a cool thing to own. But otherwise, like, live albums to me are like somewhere below remix albums on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, uh, they're below remix albums? Below remakes. Because like, I mean, remix. So you put a remix album higher than a live record? As far as like what they do to interest me because I mean like with a remix album you at least have the chance of like getting like a different song like for the most part like live. Also radio heads I might be wrong EP because like the live version of like spinning plates really does it for me.

But that was also at a time when I would buy pretty much anything radiohead put out. But I mean it like live albums to me like look in the past year I've reviewed like car seat headrest and Japan droids live out. albums like bands I really love but it's like why would I listen to this like more poorly recorded and incrementally longer version of the same song and like what what I need is just the feeling of what it's like to be amongst other people who you know love this band especially like I don't know if you feel this way like where you live but San Diego is like kind of a surprisingly like not a good music town and when I'm in a venue and it's like where wow, this many people in the same city in which I live also really enjoys seeing Pup.

That's something that's very heartwarming. It kind of gives me more faith in humanity. But as far as what a live album does, I mean, it just, it doesn't add much value. And also I'll also qualify that most of the bands that I love to see, and I would say are great live bands, it wouldn't come across. cross on an actual live album. Right. Well, I was going to say that, like, yeah, there are live records that aren't very good

because the bands themselves don't do anything particularly interesting live, you know, or at least musically interesting. It is more about that social aspect that you're talking about. Like, I love Japan droids, but, like, just listening to a live record by them. Like, low-key, not a good live act. The shows are awesome. The shows are awesome, but they're not a good live- band. No, I mean, just purely like, if you're just listening to, like, the music being played,

no, it isn't great. But I actually like that Car Seat Headrest record more than you do, just because I feel like they took their records and just made them sound like Arena Rock records. Like, yeah, on the live album. I like how much bigger it sounds live. So I appreciate that difference. I think that there is a gap between the albums and what they're doing live. In a same way, I think with the war on drugs, like where, you know, as a studio entity, maybe Carsey Headrest is more of a one-act show where you have other musicians that are helping to realize his vision, whereas live, they do feel more like a band. And I think that's the case with the war on drugs as well. Also, you know, hey, as someone who loves, you know, the dead and

fish, I have a different feeling about this because these are bands, obviously, that are taking their songs and playing them different ways every time they play live. So that is also something that is really interesting. I have to say, too, that just for me, like in my own personal listening, I tend to listen to live bootlegs as much as I listen to records, just like when I'm listening to music for fun. Because I find that listening to a record, if it's an album that I know really well, I get a little tired of it.

And hearing, like, a live version of it actually, enlivens it a little bit. It's coming at a song that I love from a slightly different angle. So, you know, going back to the War on Drugs example, I do see myself reaching for live drugs because, like, I've heard Lost in the Dream

and Deeper Understanding like a million times. And I still love those albums, but I look forward to hearing the live versions of those songs. You know, it's interesting to me. I mean, I was thinking about, you know, all these live records that have come out this year. And there's other albums that we haven't mentioned yet.

like a Father John Misty album that came out earlier this year. There's a Hiss Golden Messenger. He's put out a couple live records. Obviously, those King Gizzard albums, there's like a couple Drive-By Trekkers live records that have come out. I mean, like a lot of artists have put out live albums on Band Camp in conjunction with Band Camp Friday. I mean, there's been a ton of records like that that have come out. And it's hard for me to not see a coincidence between that and the fact that there is no actual live music for the most part this year.

It seems like, you know, if this were a normal year, I wonder if we would be seeing as many live albums as we've been seeing. And it also made me think about how really the only way that most of us have experienced any kind of live music in 2020 is via live streams. And I'm curious, like, I've had kind of a mixed experience watching concerts via live streams. There's some I really love and some that I thought were kind of flat and boring. What are your feelings on that? What have your experience has been like? So the first live stream or like the first, you know, live show that I saw that was like tailored to towards the pandemic came like pretty close to when it actually started.

Like Code Orange, a band that I don't know if we've talked about on this podcast. I just love their energy and what they do. they're like kind of a j soprano windbreaker music but i mean that in like the best possible way their album uh underneath came out on march 13th which was pretty much when the lockdown started and they had plans to do a really cool tour um with who was it i think i think it was with like wicca phase and like nico dahlengar or whatever and and so they had this tour plan but obviously they had to shut it down. And what they did is they used all of their stage production,

which is really incredible, like all of their lights and that to do a release show in an empty Pittsburgh theater where they're from. And just the production quality of it was so high. I think it put a, I think it set the bar too high going forward because that show's incredible. It showed a band that was like really willing to like challenge

what the live, what live music could be presented as in two, 2020, but after that, it's just been a lot of, like, the way I'll compare it is this. Like, I know at work or just in general when I'm on like a Zoom call or something along those lines, like, I'm paying attention, but like I'm also kind of distracted. And I think that's what like live streams have done for me, even with bands I like, because as much as it's cool to see, you know, the recordings be good, like the sounds usually good. especially now that they have some practice on it.

But it's almost like I can distract myself from it. Or I can pause it and go to the bathroom. Or I can like mute it or just like fast forward to a song I like more. So I understand like we are in a process of just trying to figure it all out. I don't hold it against any band who doesn't really come off yet on a live stream. I think we're still, I think we're slowly. moving away from the we're just going to perform our songs live. I don't know. Maybe there's going to be more like David Bazan style Q&As or like cover like versions of songs like what

Post Malone did with Nirvana. But you know, this year like I haven't had a the transformative experience with the live stream that leads me to believe that we're going to find something to replace the you know, the go to the club. sort of thing that I think people really want to get back to. Yeah, you mentioned that Post Malone Nirvana show. I feel like that is the most iconic live stream concert of 2020. That's the one that I hear mentioned the most. And it's the one where people always say, wow, that was like better than I thought it was

going to be. Like, that was pretty, pretty good. Which I thought it was, I thought it was pretty good, too. I enjoyed that. What you were saying earlier about how a problem with live streaming concerts is that you can skip around easier. and in some ways it distracts you from the immediacy that is one of the great things about live music that you can sort of get lost in the moment of watching a band.

It made me think about how difficult it is. Certainly for me, and I think a lot of people, like when you DVR like a football game or a basketball game and then you watch it later, like when you know that it isn't live, it's so easy to just be like, well, I'll just go to the fourth quarter. I don't need to watch all this. And it kind of ruins the experience when it's not live. I think there is some of that with streaming. I have to say that for me, you know, I've tended to gravitate to artists that were already

live streaming shows, like before this happened. Yeah. And in some ways, I think are better equipped at approaching it in a creative way. Like, Trey Anastasio from Fish, he's been doing these weekly concerts at the Beacon Theater in New York that have actually been really great, like not just visually, but like musically, like they are shows that you could actually listen to later on. Because he's playing with a band. He also has like a string section that he's been playing with every week.

So he's been like radically, you know, rearranging some of his songs in a really interesting way to the point where you feel like, oh, yeah, like I'm curious to see what he's going to be doing musically. I also really loved, like, Sturgle Simpson did a live stream from the Ryman back in the summer where he previewed like the bluegrass arrangements that he was going to be doing. You know, he put out that album Cutting Grass. Volume 1. I guess that was last month now, but he previewed it with that Riemann show. That was really fantastic. I saw a Rowley Walker live stream from La Poisson Rouge.

I think that was last week. That was really cool. There was a Pup live stream that I really liked. Yeah, out of bands, I like am super into that I've done live stream. I think that was the best. That was the best of the bunch, which is. done. Yeah, which is really hard to do for PUP because I mean like the entire

point of going to a Pup show is just to like really wow out with like everyone like in a real cramped space but they've been one of the best bands as far as like Utilat like putting out material in the pandemic with their zine you know the live stream just the fan engagement

like they're I like it's really heartening to see how a band like them who would be kind of consider the typical like brick and mortar type rock act that they've been able to adjust to being online.

Well, I think they're another band that, and this is a theme in this episode, I guess, where we could link this up with the King Gizzard discussion. I think Pup is a band that is creating its own world around its music that fans feel invited to be a part of where Pup gets good coverage

from the music press, but I feel like they're approaching this point, like where, you know, that's going to matter less and less because if you are a band that can create its own world, you know, it doesn't really matter as much like what the outside world is saying. It's like if you love Pup, you're in the Pup world, you're going to want to be with them. And I see like their live stream concert as being a part of that. And I think maybe that's why it works better with them than it would maybe for a lot of other bands of that sort. I was going to say, too, that like the other, you know, live stream format that I've responded to is like when

artists don't try to replicate the feel of a concert, but actually lean into the intimacy of a Zoom and give you a different look at what they do. The Jeff Tweety thing that he's been doing with his family, like where I don't know if you've seen any of these, but like I think it's just called like the Tweedy Family Show or something. But they're basically like in the attic of their house. And it's like Tweety and his wife is holding the camera and like his sons are there.

And like they'll talk and goof off and then they'll play songs. I think that's like pretty cool because again, it's like that's not something that you would have ever gotten if not for the pandemic. You know, that's not a typical concert. It is something where if you're a fan, it's like, oh, I'm getting a peek into a world that I wouldn't normally get. So I like that too. It's like don't even try to replicate the feel of a concert sometimes. Just kind of embrace the limitations and the attributes of this new format that we're in it. It is curious to see.

I mean, I do wonder, like, you know, as we see live music come back, you know, I don't know what the timetable is for that. I mean, we're talking about, you know, there's all this news about coronavirus vaccines, hopefully being introduced by like, you know, early to mid next year. But then you feel like, well, Ticketmaster is asking us, hey, have you been vaccinated? Yeah, exactly. Also, here's an additional $50 surcharge. Right. Yeah, like, well, yeah, for those who haven't seen the story, there was the story that Ticketmaster's. going to be asking for like verification that you've been vaccinated before you can attend one of

their concerts. I don't know if that's like for certain or if that's just been floated out as a proposal. But anyway, you know, I do wonder like if this is something that's going to be here to stay or if this is just a stopgap, you know, these live stream concerts, these Zoom concerts. Because like I said, there were artists that were already live streaming concerts before this. they were streaming concerts that were in front of people. You know, it wasn't just like in a room somewhere. But I do think that there's a potential here to, you know, make this part of what live music is now moving forward.

You know, not the only thing. But I would be curious to see more bands embrace this and to approach it in a more creative way as a way to just engage with an audience. And, yeah, maybe you can't get to a show because the band's not in your town, but you can still see them and experience them and feel connected to this band that you love. Yeah, because I mean, I think even in live music, like 2019 live music, you know, bands wouldn't necessarily come to your town.

You know, like even San Diego, like, you know, bands would skip it over because they played L.A. or they're playing Orange County. And I don't think we're ever going to go back to the, you know, bands put out an album, they do a tour, then they come back and they do another tour. I think that they're going to have to be more creative as far as engaging with listeners. Or, you know, in the alternative, I've spoken with a lot of bands who, I mean, yes, it takes away

like one of the most reliable streams of revenue. But also, if you're in a band that's kind of, you know, not making a lot of money and you're kind of on the older side, it, like, they actually kind of, it's kind of a relief to not have to, like, you know, go leave your home for like three months just to, like, like, lose money. I mean, if you're 20, bands I've spoken to who are like 22 years old or whatever, like they don't care because they're not really doing a major job anyway. But I would wonder if like for a certain level of bands, it's maybe a relief to not have to, you know, get in the van the way they used to, especially nowadays where it's like, I know, like, it's about to be winner and,

you know, no band wants to go through the Midwest during that time, you know? Well, well, no, True. Yeah. No, you're right. Yeah. It's like, I'm not, it's not a knock on the Midwest,

but like you hear bands like not realizing like what it actually means to have to like drive through Buffalo, you know, in November. Right. Well, and I don't even want to leave the house. And sleep on floors or whatever. I don't even want to leave the house like in wintertime.

And, you know, living here in the Midwest. So it's also good for music fans on some level. If you just want to be lazy and, and, stuff at home. Although at this point, I would trudge through like two feet of snow to see a live show pretty desperate at this point. All right, we've now reached the part of the episode that we call Recommendation Corner where Ian and I talk about something that we are into this week. Ian,

why don't you go first? All right, so I'm surprised that you haven't brought this one up first, but a band called Thunderdreamer. They are from Evansville, Indiana. And, And that I'm going to Don Mattingly. Okay. Which I knew because Don Mattingly was my favorite baseball player as a kid. Got it. Yeah, I've actually, I love their 2017 album capture in a weird sort of coincidental circumstance. I was in Evansville, Indiana when I first listened to it in 2017.

Evansville, Indiana, for those who doesn't, don't know, it's a border town with Kentucky. and I was at the Kentucky Academy for Nutrition and Dietetics meeting, which took place in Owensboro. And it really struck me how being in the Midwest affects listening to Midwest music because I just remember in Evansville so much open space. You would get people who like, you know, own homes and just enormous yards and also long stretches of nothing. It's really a quintessential Midwest sort of,

Midwest sort of not quite suburb, not quite city. And that was really reflected in capture being this expansive combination of a lot of Midwestern rock, be it like Magnolia Electric Company, there was some cloak room in there, maybe some early Red House painters. Love that album. And they signed two tiny engines, and we all know what happened with that. but a few weeks ago they put out an album called Summer Sleeping, or it's actually more of an EP. And like so many other former Tiny Engine bands in 2020, they've just really taken on,

they've really established this label knew what they were doing, at least with the A&R part, maybe not so much like the accounting. But they've taken a turn into more of like a, almost like a Tweed pop sort of thing. Like someone I knew compared it to the Yen's Lechman, maybe more like a Pernus Brothers sort of thing and it's five songs that are still like

they still have that kind of atmosphere and the ranginess of you know maybe like a band like real estate but more of like they're more like kind of love songs sappy in a little bit of a way but nonetheless like I'm really interested to see where they take things from here because I could see them being a favorite of if we can consider indie cast almost the genre.

I think it hits like, kind of like Wilco's more sweeter songs, but also maybe more of like a gritty Midwestern sort of take on it. So their new EP, Summer Sleeping, highly recommend it. Indiana, a state that I find endlessly fascinating for some reason,

mostly because it like sits at this intersection of like the South and the Midwest and the Rust Belt. Just very interesting and overlooked state. Yeah. Yeah, I love that EP. I tweeted about it like a week or two ago. And I made the Pernese Brothers comparison. And the band tweeted back saying that they'd never heard the Pernese brothers until I tweeted that.

And then they said that they checked out some songs and liked it. So yours, mine and ours is a real sleeper. from 2003. That is like a quintessential suburban Fourth of July album. Check that out if you get a chance. That's my personal favorite. Yeah, their first three or four albums are really good. Overcome by Happiness.

The 98 album is really good and the world won't end, I think, is the next album. Really pretty, you know, melodic indie rock. Yeah, like real clever and academic. Like this is back when, like, you could say, yeah, I'm a real student of like, you know, Morrissey or like orange juice and like not have it be a problem. Or like the zombies like that 60s type. Yeah, exactly. You know, it can kind of like sunshine pop type sound.

Largo core. Yeah, also I have to shout out the Scud Mountain Boys, which was Joe Prunice's previous band. Their album, Massachusetts, we're going deep on Pernice Brothers here in the recommendation corner. I like it. The album I'm going to recommend is called Just Look at the Sky by a Chicago band called Ganser.

and I've been listening to this record because I'm in that process now where I'm starting to think about my year end list and I've been revisiting a lot of albums that I enjoy during the year or maybe I sort of earmarked to like investigate further and I maybe didn't get around to doing it

and this has been an album I've been coming back to a lot. I have to say that when it came out I didn't really notice it, I didn't listen to it a ton and quite frankly like no one else really did either. Pitchfork didn't review it. I don't think Stereo gum really wrote about it.

But to me, it's been really hitting me at the right spot now. I guess now that we're approaching the cold weather months, I mean, we are in the cold weather months here in the upper Midwest. So this is a band that has this kind of chilly post-punk sound. They are a band from Chicago, so I'm sure they have some of that frigid weather baked into their bones. but what really draws me to this band is the contrast between, you know, the guitars and rhythm sections, which is very surly and angry and has like a real kind of gritty edge to it, and the vocals by,

there's two singers in this band, Nadia Garofalo and Alicia Gaines, really good singers. And I have to say that I'm at a point now, like when it comes to punk bands or post-punk bands, that like I feel like I only like bands with female singers at this point. I feel like I've been listening to like punk rock guys for most of my life, and I'm just a little tired of the punk rock guy vocal. And I don't know if we're going to have a conflict over this. I'm not saying there are bands with dude singers in the punk world that I still like that I enjoy. But just like the whiny dude who can't really sing or is like screaming a lot.

I'm just like tired of it. Whereas I feel like there's like a lot of like great women and punk bands and post-punk bands that just have like much better voices, like full-throated, like they're, you know, they can, they have a greater range. I mean, they're technically better singers, but they just have like more soul to me. And I think that is the real thing with Ganser that puts them over the top for me, that, you know, they have all the kind of post-punk attributes that you want from a band, but just like killer vocals.

So this is an album that is definitely shooting up my list, and we'll see. see if it makes my top 20. We're going to be doing, I think, multiple best albums of the year podcasts on Indycast in December. So looking forward to getting into that. But yeah, this is a really good record. Yeah, this album, look, I don't think it's much of a secret that, like, you know, the qualifiers of Chicago and post-plunk don't really move the needle much for me. That being said, I remember hearing this one a while back and enjoying it as well.

like um i first off band that's great to interact with on twitter i'll give it that um they're they're they're they're they're good folks and um yeah i mean i think the vocals were surprisingly strong on this as well um as far as like i think there's a time in place for all vocals um you know obviously i'm a big fan of the bad singing um and in a weird way like um i think most of the interesting punk rock of late has been made by people who aren't dudes so uh you know what whether or not that's due to the vocals, I'm not sure, but I just think it's, for me, it's like more of a perspective than a vocal thing because in some weird way, no matter who's singing, if the vocals are too good, then that's kind of a weird thing for

me to interact with in, um, you know, in punk rock. Like I, I, I think about like back in 2007 or eight when, uh, after riot came out, like a whole bunch of like punk rock bands, like we're trying to rip off Paramore with like, you know, really actually, they, can sing singers and it just seemed a bit off putting to me. Yeah, I mean, it's a quality, but it's also like a vocal personality. Like, I feel like there's just so many dudes

who sound like the standard punk guy voice and it doesn't have any character to it. Whereas generally speaking, like with a lot of the punk bands and post-punk bands that I've been responding to in the last few years, I feel like they're generally like women singing and they have more character. Like, I feel like,

oh, I can, if I hear that, I know that's them, you know. rather than just, like, again, a person who I feel like is sort of imitating a vocal style that they've heard from, like, a million bands. Well, it's very... Let's have a different vocal style. Yeah, I'm a little tired of that vocal style. Well, I think we can... I know that there's, like, a lot of, I think, like, British post-punk bands that are kind of coming back with that style of vocal.

Right. That's bad, too. Yeah, I'm interested to see, like, where the world comes down on that, because that seems... Yeah, like the, one of the more renewable resources is, like, the NME, like, kind of postpun. Ooh, they're bringing danger back to rock and roll. Right. Yeah, like the monotone, like the monotone voice, like, with the pronounced accent. Like, that is such a cliche of that kind of music.

And I'm, like, tired of that kind of vocal style, too. Like, let's shake it up here a little bit. You know, like, I love Ian Curtis. But, like, don't be Ian Curtis. Be yourself. Like, so, yeah, there's, I don't know. That might be a topic for another. Indycast where we just rank

singers and talk about vocal styles that we can't stand. But I should say that before we conclude this episode that we are going to be taking Thanksgiving off, we will not have an episode next week, but we'll be back in December, and I think we're going to be really ramping up with our

year-end stuff. So if you're looking for music recommendations, we're going to be hitting you hard with lots of albums that you may know, but hopefully lots of records that you missed throughout 2020. We'll be hipping you to those. So excited to get into that. But for now,

we must bid you farewell. So thank you for listening to this episode of Indycasts. We'll be back with more reviews, news, and hashing out trends in our next episode. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mixedape newsletter. You can go to Uprocks.com backslash indie. And I recommend five albums per week,

and we'll send it directly to your email box. All right, peace.