Indiecast - The Rise And Fall Of Chillwave

Episode Date: August 14, 2020

Purple Noon, the new album from Washed Out, is the impetus for this week's episode of Indiecast, which finds Steven Hyden and Ian Cohen digging into the rise and fall of the chillwave genre, starting and ending with Washed Out. Purple Noon is an album from a genre strongly associated with nostalgia, but also manages to provide nostalgia for... chillwave itself. In 2020, the genre stands to remind millennials that they are getting older.Also covered in the episode is Welcome To Conceptual Beach, the expansive, stunning new album from Young Jesus that is already a strong contender for Album Of The Year.This week's recommendations: Dehd's Flowers Of Devotion and Gulch's Impenetrable Cerebral ForcesSign up for the Indie Mixtape newsletter at indiemixtape.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to IndyCast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums, hash out trends. In this episode, we're going to do a little bit of everything. We're going to discuss the rise and fall of Chill Wave and review the latest albums by Washed Out and Young Jesus. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host, Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? Steve, to be, I mean, to be honest, I'm not at all. that different than the artists and you know bands that we talk about here and like those bands. I'm just obsessed with the reviews. I read all the comments about our podcast. And the one that stood out were people saying they related to July is Dream Pop and August is for Chill Wave. I said that in the first episode. And right now it is 7 o'clock in the morning in San Diego.

I'm already sweating. there is no such thing as central air conditioning in San Diego. So this is the absolute perfect time to talk about chill wave. I'm stoked, man. Like, I've never felt more in the zone. Yeah, I was going to say that when we first brought up the idea of doing a podcast together, I feel like the way I enticed you was to say that we will talk about chill wave at some point. I feel like you were on the fence, but then I brought up chill wave and you're like,

okay, I want to talk about chill wave on a podcast. Any podcast TV shows, I'm like the cheapest day. Talk about Chill Wave and I'm in, okay? So the reason that we're talking about Chill Wave is that there was a new album that came out by an act called Washed Out. That album is called Purple Noon. And of course, Washed Out is one of the defining acts of Chill Wave. And it's a project spearheaded by a guy named Ernest Green. He's a guy from Atlanta, Georgia.

Like a lot of millennials, he went to college with big dreams. He was, oh, that's right. I must, like, I cannot let this part go without saying go dogs. He's a Georgia bulldog. He's a Georgia bulldog. And like a lot of people, he went to school. He wanted to be a librarian, I believe. He couldn't find a job.

So he ended up moving back into his parents' house. He set up a studio in his bedroom. And he started up making, like, indie rock under the name Lee Weather. But then he was also experimenting with a more electronic-type music under the name washed out. And that was the group that ended up hitting the big time, at least in the indie rock sense. The big song that he put out in 2009 is a song called Feel It All Around. You might know that song as the theme from Portlandia. It really is, am I stretching to call that the smells like teen spirit of chill wave? Some would argue because

Tori Mois's Blesa is the one with the lyric that everyone brings up. I got a job. I do it fine it's not what I want but still I try still a lyric that kind of relates to what was going on with Ernest Green so maybe that feel it all around was it smells like teen spirit of Chill Wave and maybe Blesso was more like Pearl Jam's Alive I don't know like you could they collaborated so you could kind of think of them as being in competition on that end but anyway I mean feel it all around I feel like is the song that if you were to do a period piece about Chill Wave like that would be the song that you would play. It's the song that I think instantly evokes that time, and it really put washed out at the forefront of that scene. And we're going to talk more about Chill Wave

here in a minute. But I remember the first debut full length that Washed Out put out. It was called Within and Without came out in 2011. It peaked at number 26 on the charts. I remember I saw. That's amazing, by the way. I think that's a reflection of how much easier it was for indie bands to chart because like number 26 like you should go look at what's number 26 right now right exactly but there was also like a lot of conversation about washed out and about groups like this was definitely their moment at that period of time and I remember I saw washed out on that tour pretty boring pretty boring show as you might expect but I remember enjoying that record I the song amor fati is still a song I love that song

I can listen to that song about 10 times in a row. But of course, Chill Wave came and went. It became a punchline for a lot of people. It was something very associated with a specific place and time in music. But Washout has endured. And here we are over 10 years later. He has a new record out. What did you think of this album?

Well, as far as the new album goes, look, music writers in a lot of ways, like, we're pretty lazy. We always want a shortcut. you know, how many times can you talk about a guitar, a distorted guitar? And I think what's happened lately is, and trust me, I'll talk about how this relates to the record. But there seemed to be this reflect, like, there's this reflex now to talk about like how music made before the pandemic is appropriate for the pandemic. And I think with washed out, there was this reflexive backlash. Like, what does this guy think he's doing? You know, he's on the cover wearing like, what,

white khakis. He's on like a Mediterranean coast. It's called Purple Noon. Like it you can never accuse washed out of like not being on the nose man. His last album was called Mr. Mello. But what, and so people are like, what does this guy think he's doing? He's so tone deaf. This is not what we need right now. And what that leads me to like, because to be honest with you, like I kind of like forgot about washed out for a while, even though I've, you know, enjoyed all of his albums. But once that starts happening, I get like in this pose of wanting to defend washed out. It's like, no, this is what we do need this. We need counter programming. And this is the guy who's going to bring it to us. We are just going to vibe out for like 35 minutes at a time.

And he's the guy who's going to bring us there. Initially, once I actually listened to the record, it was, it was a bit disappointing because his past two records, particularly like Paracazzo, in 2013, the follow-up, which was surprisingly really strong. He branched out more into like shoegaze. There was a song that sort of sounded like mercy, mercy, me, which is probably not a great idea, given his vocal abilities. But nonetheless, it showed he was trying. And then he made Mr. Mello in 2017.

I gave it a fairly average review. He was not Mr. Mello after reading that. That being said, he- Oh, did he lash out? Did he lash out of you a little bit? A little bit of a tweet and delete going on. Oh, really? Yeah, but anyway, with that record, I thought it was just kind of interesting from a trajectory of him being on Stones Throw,

like as opposed to subpop, Stone's Throw being a hip-hop label that put out Mad Villany and Jay Dillis Donuts, two records that are really, really influential on Chillway producers. So I was thinking that perhaps he might, like the, The arc I envisioned for him was maybe like an M83 sort of thing where that guy just made like really vibey reverb music. And then he started touring with bands like Kings of Leon and Depeche Mode. So he learned how to be a front man. And then he started to outsource his vocals to people who had like real powerhouse singing abilities.

I thought washed out might go that direction, just kind of be a producer who maintained the vibe of his past stuff, but put people on top of it that. could sell it or make it sound a little bit different. He went the complete opposite direction and made an album that sounds almost exactly like within and without. And I don't expect to have like an existential crisis when I listen to Washed Out. Like I think, but nonetheless, it's so similar to his past work. So intentionally similar.

Some of the drum fills or call back to feel it all around, which call back to, you know, Phil Collins in the air tonight, like some of the same. synth sounds are pretty similar, some of the vocal lines of the same. And it makes me wonder, like, I was super into chill wave, like, ground floor, buy all the stocks. It makes me think back, it's like, was there value in this music or was I just influenced by the situation of my life at the time? I was going to a lot of pools. I was, like, doing a lot of day drinking at the time. And so, you know, when the, when the record's playing, I'm just asking myself, like, was I suckered in some way?

I mean, the record began, I made dinner, it ended, I could, like, there was no real arc to the album. It just kind of kept this kind of mid-tempo pace. And when it was done, like, I only realized it was over 35 minutes later because feel it all around came out on spot. Right. Yeah, you know, it's interesting to me that washed out is at this moment in his career where he's making the, like, I call it the, I'm reminding you why you liked me once record, you know, which is like the album that, like a lot of legacy artists make when they get to like the 10, 12, 13 year mark in their career, you know, like where they've put out a bunch of albums. They haven't totally faded away, but they don't have the prominence that they once had.

And in a way, it's a reboot to a time when they were making music that was really relevant and people liked. And, you know, obviously you heard Mr. Mello in 2017. You reviewed it. I don't even remember that record coming out. I mean, it was kind of, I think it was kind of seen as like not an official. It was like a video, a visual album. Yeah. So it might not be, it might be seen as part of the extended washed out universe, if not

like washed out LP3. Yeah, I mean. But also that came out in 2017. And that was four years after Paracosum. This guy, he is very chill in his work ethic. Yeah. I mean, to me, like Purple Nune just strikes me as a record that is like reminding people like, oh yeah, I remember me.

Remember like when you were into this kind of music. And it's very fascinating to me that, you know, Chill Wave historically was very, very strongly associated with nostalgia. And now here's a signature chill wave artist who's making music that evokes nostalgia for chill wave. You know, like we are now in the nostalgia wave for this nostalgic music. And, yeah, I agree with you about the album being pretty forgettable. I think it is a very explicit attempt to recreate what he was doing in the early 2010s. It is an album that really evokes within and without for me. But what is lacking is that one banger that is going to bring you back to the record

over and over again, which in the case of within and without, as we said before, a more fat tea. Again, when I was researching for this episode, I found myself just on a loop with that song. It's such a great song. It's such an atmospheric songs. There's other good songs. There are other bangers on that record, too. I think the first song, Eyes Be Closed.

I'll vouch for that one as well. I remember when that came out, people were, like, uh, kind of taken aback how much it sounded like a song from Moby's play. Um, and also there was a song with Caroline Polichick from chairlift, uh, belongs a great song as well.

Like, it's surprisingly holds up. Plus it's got that Ben Allen production, Ben Allen, the guy who did Halcyon Digest, Merri Weather Proz Pavilion. Like that to me is like, I will strongly advocate for that because it's not just like,

a chill wave record, but it's like also a 2011, like what was going on then. Oh, yeah. It definitely, it definitely has that like Halcyon Digest, like bigness to it. It feels like a shiny record and like those songs, as big as washed out can sound. Like that record, it blows up the best songs on that record to like near anthemic status. But yeah, like this new record, it has a lot of the, like, as you said, like there's, sonic illusions pervade the songs to

other washed out songs. It sounds like a washed out record from, I guess, the classic chill wave era, if we can say that term. But yeah, there's just not any truly memorable songs. In a way, this might be kind of a weird comparison, but it reminds me in some

ways of like a late period U2 album, like where U2 was trying to evoke the Joshua tree, but they just didn't have the songs. You know, it's like, again, as I saying like when artists get to this point in their career where they want to remind people of like why they love them in the first place and like that's what this record strikes me as an attempt to do

but yeah I don't know if it's wholly successful you know but like but like pivoting to like a larger conversation because you know we want to talk about chill wave in general what's what's interesting to me listening to this album was that you know while we're talking about about it, you know, he's trying to evoke sort of like the older albums, the albums that he put out like when Washda out was like a bigger thing in any music. Generally speaking, I felt like this album, it didn't feel anachronistic in a way. You know, it wasn't like a band trying to make like a 90s grunge album, for instance, where, you know, you associate grunge with a very specific

period of time. I was really kind of surprised by how contemporary this record sounds, just because I feel like Chillwave just permeated music in a way, even as the term fell out of favor, it's almost like what happened with disco music at the end of the 70s, like where people didn't want to say the word disco anymore because that it becomes such an overexposed term. So people, but keep people kept making records that were in that vein. You know, they just didn't use the word anymore. And, I mean, I've written about this before. I felt like the 2010s were like probably the most mellow decades.

decade musically that's been around since I've been alive and I think there's many explanations for that but I think the chill wave aesthetic ended up infiltrating like almost every other like popular form of music wouldn't you say yeah I think with chill wave at the end like at the end of 2010 we when we look at like the way it was made which is like quite literally guys in their bedroom on synthesizers and computers and that really predicted, maybe not predicted, it was just like kind of a natural outgrowth of where technology was leading to. And the fact that like chill wave encompassed more than just a sound. Like in the like I wrote about this last year for the 10 year anniversary of

Deadbeat summer, but prior to chill wave being coined by hipster runoff, I think that guy's credited with the creation of the term. It was known as like glowfi or hip beat. hypnagogic pop, like things that people would, like, in terms that music critics understand, but like nobody would be able to say in a public conversation. But when you say chill wave, beyond evoking the classic sound, which Watchd Out does here, and I love the fact that it always comes back to you too for you. You know, I thought this, this is like the closest like Washed Out can get to making like that Rick Rubin back to basics type record. Right. Chill Wave encompassed a lot of things that became central to the internet. Like it evoked Tumblr, it evoked, you know,

Instagram, it evoked filtering. So it kind of was absorbed by the culture. You mentioned disco. I think the same thing could be said about goth or grunge or emo, like anything that used to define a set parameter for music, but became indicative of like, larger cultural trends. So when we look at like what chill wave did, first off, it's music that it's very cheap to make. There's a low bar for entry. Two, it's more easy than ever just put it out there in the world. Three, it usually sounds great while you're high. So that worked out for its ability to leach into hip hop. It can leach into rock music as well. So I mean, we could, well, I'm sure you'll have things to say about how chill

Wave integrated itself into rock music. Well, and I was going to say, too, that, like, all those things you mentioned about it being cheap to make, and, like, from the creator standpoint, I think that's all spot on. I'd also say, too, that, like, Chill Wave and, like, the aesthetics of Chill Wave and how it ended up influencing other genres, it's also music that, like, plays really well on a laptop, like, as a listener, you know, like, just the dynamics of it, you know, you don't need, like, a great sound system to appreciate Chill Wave.

Wave. I mean, that was one of my theories about why the 2010s were, I think, generally a pretty mellow decade for popular music is that, like, really loud, aggressive music, it doesn't sound like optimal on a laptop. Like, you want to hear that in your car. You want to hear that, like, on a great stereo where you can appreciate, like, a great bottom end and, like, loud guitars and, you know, banging beats. But, yeah, there was something about, I think, Chill Wave, the flatness of it sonically, just works really well on how people ended up listening to music in this decade and beyond. Yeah, I mean, I started to tour like a few years ago. I started to buy like MPCs and like keyboards like the the basic elements of like Chilway beat make just because I just wanted to like I was

bored. I wanted to learn a new instrument and I started to like realize like how this music was made. And first off, it's like, wow, I'm going to put all these panning effects and filters. Like, it doesn't matter that I can't sing. Like, this is part of the aesthetic. And it does sound great on laptops. And then you try to play it on loudspeakers. I'm like, oh, my God, this sounds like shit. Right.

And, you know, just because, like, I have no idea how to, like, mix things or whatever. But, yeah, it's chill wave was music made for the stereos at the time. I mean, most people are listening on laptops. most people are listening in headphones. Most people are listening, you know, for some, like, there's something else go. It's great for multitasking. Right. I can put on a chill wave record and still get an emotional appeal to it.

And like old school chill wave, I mean, you listen to like newer records from like Toro Mi Mouin or neon Indian. And it's like they became like pop artists. They became much more exploratory. But I admire. how washed out is like the last man's standing of chill wave like this guy is going to defend it till the wheels fall off so but yeah I mean what happened afterwards is it it was right place right time and predicted how people were going to listen and interact with music for the rest of the decade and I think even as people bring up like how it obviously influenced electronic music or how it influenced hip hop A lot of rock bands, I think, became products of Chill Wave era. Like, even bands that predate it because you think of Chill Wave as being one guy in their bedroom, lots of effects. And you could think, like, well, doesn't that describe the war on drugs in some way?

Doesn't that describe Tame and Paula in some way? Because those are rock bands, like everything you said, like big guitars, big sound systems, laser light show. but at the end of the day, they're kind of more vibey than rock. Yeah, I was going to say that. I feel like, you know, I wouldn't describe the war on drugs as a chill wave band or Tameyman Pala. But like, yeah, I wouldn't. They're not a chill wave act, but I do agree that there was something about that aesthetic where, you know, you listen to the war on drugs and, you know, people compare them to like Bruce Springsteen and Tom Petty.

But then you listen to a war on drugs record next to like born in the USA. or dam in the torpedoes, and, like, there's obviously a different production style. Like, they don't really emulate the sonics of those records, which are very bright and loud and, like, geared toward FM rock radio in the 70s and 80s, whereas the War on Drugs have this sort of postmodern quality to the way that they approach classic rock. And I really feel that, like, four bands like that, and you mentioned Tame and Pala as another one. It almost, like, I think the chill wave aesthetic, it almost became a way to launder classic rock influences in an indie rock setting where you could, again, you could evoke the feeling of a Bruce Springsteen record without sounding like Bruce Springsteen. You know, it really is the difference between a band like the War on Drugs and say the Hold Steady, for instance.

Like the Hold Steady is more of a straightforward, you know, replication or homage to what Springsteen was doing where you can like see Sonic Similand. And it's much more comparable. Whereas the war on drugs, again, I think it's about evoking the same feeling that you get from those records without necessarily sounding like those records. I mean, I think the thing with Chillwave that we have to mention too

is that, you know, I feel like from the beginning when people were talking about these acts, it was always with an edge of hostility or skepticism. And it goes right to the genre tag, which, as you mentioned, was invented by hipster runoff.

Do the kids know hipster runoff? I feel like that he's like faded away. He was such a big deal for a long time. But like it was a jokey, you know, genre tag, obviously. But I feel like at the time, Chill Wave, there was this sort of element to it where I think people associated it with like the hipster debates of the time. And this idea of like young people in big cities ironically embracing art that was. shitty, you know, for lack of a better term. And doing it, like, in a way that wasn't sincere.

And I feel like people sort of looked at chill wave in that respect. It's like, well, what is this music? It's, you know, there's no emotion to it. You know, it sounds not all that impressive sonically. There's not a lot of musicianship here. Like, who really likes this kind of music? I mean, is this just for people that are logged on all the time? And, you know, they can't really distinguish between, like, what they like

and just like what they like in sort of a jokey way. I think that was the impression that a lot of people had a chill wave at the time, which really, I think, saddled it in a lot of these groups with, I think, some unfair baggage, because I don't think, in the case of Washed Out anyway, that there was anything ironic about what he was doing. I think there actually is a pretty genuine emotional component, even though washed out, especially like the new record, It also has some of the negative attributes of chill wave,

which is that it is sort of wallpaper music, and it's pretty easy to ignore. I mean, I know you remember that time, where people would talk about chill wave like that. I mean, am I classifying it accurately? I think this is a situation where both parties have a point. Like, I was ground floor of chill wave. Like, from the very jump,

this was music that I gravitated towards, because for all the things that subjected it to critique, the fact that it was so viety, the fact that it was such a low level of musicianship, at the same time, it was something that felt like honestly new. It felt like something that was a product of its time, a product of young people, and the fact it could, it was something that evolved and took in contemporary trends the same way that like hip-hop and pop did. Because as an indie rock listener for the.

2000s a lot of the trends that came up be it dance punk be it you know the the Springsteen wave of the mid 2000s like a lot of that or postpunk a lot of that required you to like know about the roots of indie rocks like okay I got to listen to gang of four now or okay I got to go back listen to enjoy division but like with chill wave you could be into chill wave and like it just kind of starts its own history. I mean, there are aspects of it that draw on like boards of Canada or Venice or whatever. But if you were someone listening to Chill Wave in 2009, you were kind of already an expert on that. And so I think the people who were negative towards it, they weren't wrong. But when we look at like the idea that there's no emotion to it at all, I think we have

to look back to a point that a lot of people have made in retrospect, because you look at at like Ernest Green story, went to college, tried to get a job, you know, went back to live with his parents. Similar with Chaz Bear of Toroie Moore, he was in an indie rock band. He stopped, you know, he started making beats in his home in South Carolina. Alan Palomo of Neon Indian. Also indie rock guy started making music as Neon Indian. All like when we look at like what was happening in 2008, 2009, that was like the recession. Like that was a time when a lot of people were discovering that their prospects were not better than those of their parents. And that was like probably the first time in generations that had happened.

And so that stuff may have not been like Chilwave might not have been like protest music on that front. It's like, I'm going to make music that, you know, like I'm going to make protest music that like protest the economic situation. But like it was a reflection of it. And so I think Chilwave now is kind of seen as. if not overtly political, like inherently political. And I think it should be admired for creating this kind of new path for indie rock to follow because before then, everything was starting to become like kind of cyclical. You know, the 80s were post-punk and dance punk and like disco, so were the 2010s.

The 90s, like the 90s, the 90s indie rock aesthetic. that was always coming back. But Chilwave really charted a new path. And I think that, yeah, there were a lot of bands that were careerists and started to emulate that stuff just to like get some sinks at Urban Outfitters or H&M because it was so easy to make. But looking at the time, there were a lot of talented artists that use that aesthetic. I mean, you listen to a tour-re-moie album now.

One of his recent ones are Neon Indians last album. It's like, these were talented musicians. I think that the cream of this crop did rise. And any band that was just trying to hop on, this trend ended up being kind of exposed. So there was a weird amount of quality control like two years after the fact. Yeah.

And, you know, I was just thinking about what you were saying about this music being political. I don't know if I agree with that necessarily just because I feel like political music, at a bare minimum, at least has some level of commentary to it or at least offers a call to action. And I mean, I guess you could say maybe the political statement of Chill Wave is to not act and to retreat. I mean, that seems to be the message of this music to me, which isn't really an explicit message,

because I don't think Chill Wave acts really said anything ever substantial. It was more of like an implicit message, you know. And I feel like that was something that really resonated with people in the 2010s. And I'm very ambivalent about that. be honest. I think there's a lot about music in the 2010s that was about retreating into yourself and retreating into a world of your headphones and a world of like your favorite drugs and maybe not interacting with the world, which, yeah, again, I think it's reflective of people's reality. And you're right in that I do, I agree that like that, that, that chill wave was

something that was genuinely new compared to a lot of what happened in the odds with indie rock. where it was about reviving things. Whereas I think Choway was definitely a music that it's hard to imagine this music existing without the internet. And without the specific moment in time that we're talking about, the recession, all these people making music in bedrooms, this idea of not really being in a band anymore, where you're just going to make music by yourself.

And if you become popular enough and you can actually make money, that's when you start a band. And you teach them how to play your songs, then you go on the road, which became the model for a lot of people in the 2010s. So, I don't know. I mean, to me, like, you know, we've said this before. We haven't even really talked about the influence of Chil-Avon pop and hip-hop, which I think has been pretty profound.

I mean, if you listen to, like, popular music now, a lot of it sounds inspired by the 80s. It has sort of a blurry, drug-y quality to it. You know, it has a lot of the sonic hallmarks of, like, feel it all around. Like when you listen to that song from 2009, a lot of songs on the radio now kind of sound like that. So again, it's that chill wave influence without it being called chill wave. So yeah, I mean, I feel like maybe we're just now at the point, you know, 10 or so years later, where people can really assess the importance of this music with a clearer head without all the

sort of hipster baggage that I think was affixed to it back when it had its moment. Yeah, daddy, what was a hipster? Like, yeah, hipster runoff. I mean, like, I, you know, I laughed at it. But, yeah, in the same way that, like, a lot of stuff from that era has grown to scrutiny. And you could see, like, hipster runoff, a lot of it being, like, pretty overtly misogynist and just kind of nasty. And, you know, in some ways, it's an era. We should be glad we're beyond.

Oh, believe me, I do not wish that it was 2010. well you know actually there's a it's very easy to be nostalgic for any year I guess in 2020 yeah basically basically any year but prior to this one like it's like that one article in New York

or Giotolentino wrote it's like every year's the worst year until the next year you know so like I'm feeling nostalgic for like oh man December 2019 like I'm just going to throw on like an FCA Twigs album it's like those are the days man

Well, let's stop being nostalgic and let's talk about an album that came out this year. Actually came out today as we're recording this podcast. It's the latest from a band that we both really love called Young Jesus. The record is called Welcome to Conceptual Beach. And I reviewed this record this week and you have a review coming at a publication that I guess we'll leave unnamed because we wanted to be a surprise when review drops, but I assume, you know, that review will be out early next week. Maybe. For those who don't know who young Jesus is, this was a band.

This is a band that formed in the aughts. The main guy in the band is a person named John Rossiter. He formed this band when he was in high school, back in Chicago, in the aughts, and went through a bunch of different lineups before settling on the current lineup of the band. I guess it was about three years ago when the band moved to Los Angeles. And really, that was the point where they came to my attention. I don't know if you were listening to them Ian before this, but they put out a self-titled record that ended up coming out on Saddle Creek.

And then the following year, they put out another album called The Whole Thing is Just There, which to me was like their real breakthrough. I thought the self-titled record was great. But like that 2018 record, it just reminded me of like a classic Modest Mouse record, crossed with the Grateful Dead with like some sun raw touches to it. Like it just had this sort of overwhelming emotionalism that you associate with like classic indie rock, with an approach that is based in a lot of improvisation and experimentation that is inspired by jazz and jam bands. And it's interesting because I feel like this band meets at the midpoint between you and I in terms of our tastes.

I can't imagine a band that, you know, because it's a little bit of emo over here, a little bit of jamming over here. and you meet in the middle with this sort of incredible one-of-a-kind band. Yeah, I mean, it's, I've followed this band's journey for quite some time. The first time, well, like, I just have to give kind of a shout to the earliest material. These guys made in Chicago. I interviewed John in 2018, and he talked about when he was in Chicago, like, what he would do is just get drunk with his buddy in his garage and listen to bright eyes. Nothing gets crossed out and think, that's going to be us, man. like, I'm going to be Connor and you're going to be Tim Casher.

And they made these albums. Like, I would describe them like they're on band camp, but kind of written out of their history along the lines of, say, like, the first national album or, you know, Deer Hunters Turn It Up F Word or the Antler albums before Hospice. Like, they're there, but they're kind of written out of their history. And he was saying at the time, like 2012, this album called Home, it was kind of like a party, emo album. Like in the sense that this was kind of what was going on in Chicago with a lot of the emo revival bands, which is kind of hilarious to think about in the space where they're at now.

But where I first heard of them was 2015. They had this record called Grow Decompose. Just one of those sounds that pops up on some blogs that cover primarily indie rock, you know, like Brooklyn Vegan or what have you. And John's on the cover in drag. And I think that record was made while they're in Chicago. But that's when he moved. move to LA and kind of, for lack of a better term, got a shit together, started working at Skylight Books. And that record, you know, stood out to me as being kind of that erudite, barfly midwestern rock sort of thing.

Like I figured listening to it, they'd be like seen along the lines of, say, like, Proto Martyr or like the Holt Steady. And just listen. Wait, wait. Who's that first man you mentioned? Proto Martyr? Protomartor, yeah, dude. Oh, okay.

I just want to make sure I heard you say that. Okay. I'm sorry, keep going. Yeah. And I paid attention to them. It's like I heard it, thought it was interesting. And I'm like, eh, you know, I didn't really go back to it much because it was very kind of a difficult record. The vocals were very upfront and kind of ungainly in a way.

But, you know, two years later, the self-title comes out. It was initially released on a very, very small label. and I think someone, the promo email referred to its comparison points. This was 2017, remember, as American football, Red House Painters, Pine Grove, and Broken Social Scene. So, of course, I'm, oh, okay, I guess I'm going to listen. Oh, yeah, young Jesus, I remember them. Just one of those bands that you kind of hear in passing. And it's like, okay, I'll listen to this album.

If it doesn't get my attention in the first five minutes, like, then I'll move on. And I was just kind of blown away by where they had gotten to that point. It reminded me a little bit of like you mentioned Modest Mouse. To me it was more along the lines of like talk talk or this kind of post rock sort of thing going on where it was extremely quiet in some points, very meditative. And I remember listening to it like while I was hiking in San Diego on a hundred degree day sometime back in September of 2017. And you mentioned they got signed to Saddle Creek. Like I talked to someone from Saddle Creek about that signing. And she said that she basically saw them play live in L.A.

and was just so blown away by it. She's like, I don't care if this band sells no albums. Like, we just have to have this. Right. Kind of a vanity signing. And to be fair, you know, between this and the whole thing is just there, I mean, they are kind of a band that isn't really. well known.

No. I figure the trajectory for them would be, you know, like that band I mentioned before, like a proto-martre or a symbol Zee guitar is like that a kind of band that just puts out a record every now and again and the same five music writers just like completely lose their minds over it, right, really long glowing profiles and then no one else really gets into it. Yeah, it's weird to me because that definitely does seem like the path with this, with this band. And I hope that doesn't happen with this record, which,

we haven't really talked about yet. I think we should dig into Welcome to Conceptual Beach here a little bit because you're right. I feel like to me, it's clear that this is one of the best albums of the year. And I felt that from the first time I really heard it. I just thought it knocked me out right away. I love the previous two records, but I really feel like this record is a culmination in a lot of ways of a lot of what they've been working toward, I think, where, you know, they come from this, in a way, conventional indie rock background.

And I think they still sound like what you might expect an indie rock band to sound like. But to me, like, their approach of improvisation and bringing in other kinds of music, you know, like there's a song on here called Patterned Out, for instance, where, and I interviewed John about this, where he talked about how that song draws on both his, teenage love of the Dave Matthews band and his current love of the great jazz artist Alice Coltrane. And you can hear both of those influences in that song. There's like this beautiful saxophone part that goes through the song. There's like these beautiful like sort of fluttery keyboards that go about. So they can do that kind of thing. And then there's like another song on there that I love called Meditations,

which is this again sort of surly post-rock song for about half of it. And then like in the middle, it transitions very smoothly into this like just furious kind of rapid-paced rocker that like John ends up kind of screaming at the end of it. And, you know, there's so many songs like that. Like the song Lark, this 11-minute song where you can really hear the sort of improvisational influence of the band on a song like that where it's this beautiful, you know, sort of stately song that just melts into like free-form noise for a couple of minutes. And then it kind of goes back into this sort of anthemic stately splendor type song. And, you know, I hear myself talking about this record and I feel like I sound like a music writer raving about a band that not a lot of people know. But I would say that like if you love, you know, just emotional, big sounding indie rock,

but also are maybe a little bit bored with that kind of record because you feel like you know all the sonic signposts, I feel like this record will give you the, exhilaration of those classics without relying on the same old sort of signifiers that you're bored with. Like this is going to take you to a different place while also kind of delivering something that is that feels familiar even as it goes in different directions. Yeah, I think as inaccessible, like they get kind of played up as like inaccessible because they make songs that are regularly longer than 10 minutes and there aren't a lot of easy

hooks. And yet, like you mentioned, it touches on, it, it's a. band kind of for everyone because it's it's for the people who were into indie rock but then got into jazz i know that's a very big subset of people uh it plays on like kind of the jam band aspect because they all come from like a very improv uh background like that there are a lot of songs that just kind of stop midway it breaks down and then they just pick it back up like stephen mentioned um but it also has that i don't think he's totally jettisoned that indie emo sort of thing like modest mouse like if you want to hear that you can and i'm just blown away by this record because

i thought what they were going to do is they were so into this idea of jamming and improv that they would be the type to put out like a record or two every single year that was more interested in process than like putting the seven best songs and this one um it just kind of shows this mastery that really was hinted at at the previous records my favorite songs on here are the ones that Steve didn't mention, like, unknowing, which to me, it sounded like the melody is sort of like radio heads let down, but it's also this distorted shoegays song. And like you mentioned, meditations towards the end, it's more like a DC post-hardcore sort thing, like almost like dismemberment plan.

So, I mean, it is really easy to geek out and be a music writer about this because they, the band who made it are such music nerds. one of the guys teaches a college course on Sun Rock. Right. But I think it's worth noting that for as challenging as this album seems, it also can appeal to basically every single form. Like if you like indie rock music or like of any sort of variant, there's something for you here.

And I think that comes across to a degree that the previous record, as strong as they are, didn't. It sounds like what they did. this time was they came with a batch of songs and then did the jams as opposed to the last album, which intentionally was like, we're going to jam until a song comes out of it. So, I mean, I think with this album, it also helps that it's coming out of a time where there really isn't much. There aren't too many big indie rock releases. So this weekend is Young Jesus and Young Jesus is alone.

Yes, yes, carve out a good portion of your weekend. Listen to Welcome to Conceptual Beach by Young Jesus. All right. We have now reached the point of our episode where we give a recommendation from each of us, something that we're enjoying. We call it Recommendation Corner. We're going to talk about an album or a film or a book or whatever, something that Ian and I are into.

Ian, why don't you go first? All right, so we talked about Chill Wave. Let's go in the complete opposite direction. How about some hardcore? I think that this genre, it's a bit of a hard, sell in a lot of indie rock because for one thing, it involves a lot of like physicality. You kind of have to be at the shows. You have to be at the ground level, like seeing these EPs and these singles.

It doesn't really lend itself well to albums. And also, even writing about it is tough. I mean, how many, like, can you really spend 600 words saying like, oh, yeah, this stomps ass and be done with it? That was a problem I kind of had with what I think is the best hardcore record of the year, which is Gulch's impede. impenetrable cerebral fortress. It's a band that had gotten a lot of hype in the past couple of years in the hardcore realm

because weirdly enough, not just their live act, but their merch. They have this logo that's been on like San Rio themed hoodies and rugby shirts. And what happens is their merch sells out and like really quickly and then gets resold for like $200,500 on resale sites. Who are these hardcore people that have that much money to spend on merch? That's what I'm wondering, dude. It's like maybe you just wear that like Gulch hoodie until it, like for like the next two years until you can afford the next one.

But they kind of surprise dropped their album on the same day that folklore came out. And it was funny to see that kind of people who are, who listen to both. And it's, it's 15 minutes. It ends with the Susie and the Banshees cover. but it was produced by Jack Shirley, a guy who's done Def Heaven and Jeff Rosensock, Joyce Manor. And for like all you give it is 15 minutes and it just is so aggressive but like big sounding in a way that you kind of don't expect hardcore to be. And it's it's a weird thing with hardcore now because you think like, okay, they're not touring. And you're also stuck inside like how you possibly enjoy this music.

But I think all one for one thing, A, it's. counter programming. And for someone such as myself who's like 40 and kind of a wuss, it might be easier to enjoy this music than ever because you don't have to, you could kind of like watch and observe the shows. And I think one of the best examples of this is a YouTube channel called Hate 5-6. It's a guy named Sunny Singh who makes a lot of like really high quality hardcore show footage. Gulch being among them. You can look at their performance from 2019's This is Hardcore Festival in Philadelphia. A couple other bands that come from Golgisine, such as Drain, you can look at their

Sound and Fury set. And it's just phenomenal to like watch this stuff because it's so violent in a lot of ways. Like people like really like freak out like just doing the circle pit thing, spin kicks, like handstands on stage. Sounds great. And you, yeah, you can. Sounds amazing. I mean like

I don't know man Enjoy it from the comfort of your own Yeah Like you see like People still feel this way About hardcore music in 2020 I don't know man Like I don't really need to be around

Or even watch Aggressive young men Kicking each other I don't know I like this record I listen to it a couple times I feel like that's probably all I needed From this album personally

But like I agree with you that like There's if you're averse To hardcore music If you don't listen to like a lot of this type of music. I would say that Gulch is like relatively accessible. There are like more snatches of melody on this record than you would expect. So I know like I went through a period like where I listen to like a lot of hardcore, post-hardcore music and I'm kind of not in that place right now.

So it's harder for me to access stuff like this. But I would say, I love you too, Steve. Well, I was going to say like the record I'm going to recommend I know is definitely not a beer alley. But it's a record I love, and it's sort of the opposite, I guess, of what Gulch would be, which is a record called Flower Devotion by a band called Dead. Dead is a band. It sounds like

The Grateful Dead, but it's just Dead. D-E-H-D is how it's spelled. But anyway, this is a band from Chicago. There's some members of this band that played in other groups that you might know, like, Nihai and La La La La La, other Chicago bands that are

really cool, but they never really broke out, I think, in a big way. And I would say that dead is the best thing that these people have been involved with. And Flower Devotion, I think, is their third record, but I think it's clearly their best album. And it is the, I guess, prototypical third album by an up-and-coming indie band and that, like, it sounds a lot bolder, the production is better, the songwriting is a lot sharper. You know, kind of like in talking about hardcore band, you know, it's hard to write about music like that because there are certain sort of genre requirements of that that like people are pretty familiar with and in a way that's also true

of dead because this is basically a reverb heavy guitar pop record which uh is a kind of record that I feel like we've all heard and we've probably all heard that many times but like I feel like flower devotion when I put it on it really kind of blew me away because I feel like it's such a better version of that kind of music than I've heard. in a really long time. And for me, like the strength of this band, along with just like the melodies, which I think are really strong, are the vocals. Like there's a, there's like man and woman vocals playing off each other. Just these really great harmonies that kind of, I mean, I've heard this band talk about the

cock two twins being an influence that's sort of like ethereal sound that you associate with that group. And there's some elements of that in dead, although it's, It reminds me more almost of like a mamas and popas type vocal sound. Like it has like a classic kind of harmony quality to it that you associate with like great 60s pop. So just that combination of influences really is in my wheelhouse. I hear a little bit of like early cure in this band as well. I know they've also talked about like Roy Orbison being an influence. Obviously he, you know, he's a great singer as well.

So yeah, I mean, flower devotion, you know, it kind of also falls in that dream pop lane that we've been talking about on this show for the last couple episodes. And I know we said Dream Pop was more for July, but I guess I'm carrying it also into August. So this is an album I love. I know like you are pretty underwhelmed by this album. Yeah, more like me. Am I right? Yeah, they even spell it like that.

To me, it's like I do, like you mentioned a lot of influences that I like as well. Now, I didn't hear Mamas and Pappas what I heard with the harmonies. I think the female vocals, like, are really distinct. They really, they're interesting to me. And then the guy gets on and it sounds like a lot of bands from the early 2010s that, like, I've kind of forgotten about, like, crocodiles. Like, it, like, a lot of, like, kind of lesser stuff that I reviewed in, like, the C to E slots in 2012. But to me, it's like, I get it.

It's indie rock kind of fan service where it brings up, like, a lot of. of influences that are like perennally, perennally, I don't know how to say that word, perennially cool. They're always cool in other words. And to me, that's like not very interesting. And also, like, I get kind of weary of Chicago hype because, like, you hear like knee high and la la la, they're like the best, man.

They're making incredible projects. Like, I think that a lot of this right now just shows to like kind of my exhaustion about this sort of sound or just bands coming out of Chicago, which don't get me wrong. a lot of great stuff comes out of there. But this to me, even though it is kind of up my alley as an indie rock kind of purist, it just, it hasn't connected with me yet. But I think maybe that will happen in like a year or two when I have some distance from, you know,

the fact that this is the indie rock record people have like rallied around. That's happened to me a lot this year because I can go back. It's like, oh, yeah, maybe Mac DeMarco has some things that I might like about it. Maybe I should give Ice Age another shot. You know, I feel like that is probably that. sort of thing as well. Well, if you want to sit in your house with headphones and drink yourself into a stupor, listen to Dead. If you want to go lift weights and be really active, listen to Gulch. So I feel like we're giving people lots of different lifestyle options with our recommendations.

I'm feeling good about this. We have run out of time here on Indycast, so thank you again for listening to our show. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to Uprocks.com. backslash indie and I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box. We'll be back next week with more reviews of albums, more indie news, more recommendations. Take care everybody.