Indiecast - The Smile, Plus: Jack Antonoff's Indie Rock 'Minions' Soundtrack, Kendrick Lamar Discourse, And The End Of The iPod

Episode Date: May 13, 2022

Nearly a year after Radiohead's Thom Yorke and Jonny Greenwood first teased The Smile, their side project with drummer Tom Skinner, the band's album is finally here. Indiecast hosts Steven Hyden and Ian Cohen dive into their album A Light For Attracting Attention (31:47), a title that can be taken ironically seeing as the side project garners far less attention than an official Radiohead release.After a fair amount of banter, Steven and Ian get into some of the relevant indie news from this week. Music discourse this week was mainly dominated by two very different album announcements: Kendrick Lamar's Mr. Morale And The Big Steppers (7:02) and the Jack Antonoff-produced Minions 2 soundtrack (2:20), which features groovy music by artists like Tame Impala and St. Vincent.In this week's Recommendation Corner (51:17), Steven plugs Rolling Blackouts Coastal Fever's zippy guitar pop-filled album Endless Rooms. Meanwhile, Ian shouts out power pop band Hey, ily!New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 88 and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to IndyCast. On this show, we talked about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we review the new album by Radiohead's Side Project, The Smile. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. You can hear him covering the Steve Miller band on the Minions' Rise of Gru soundtrack. Ian Cohen, Ian, how are you?

Yeah, and I'm going to be covering The Joker, but in the style of this cover band, I see at college all the time. Like they would play the Joker and they'd get the same lyric wrong the same way each time. They'd say, I really love your peaches when to climb your tree. So when you hear that, Benny Dodd, if you're still out there kicking around in Charlottesville, that one's for you. Has anyone ever covered the Joker as the Joker? You know, like they sing it in the voice of the Joker. This seems like an idea that's so obvious and yet no one.

has done it. Like, none of the DC movies, they'd never had a scene, like, where the Joker is looking in the mirror. Like, a real Jordan Peel, like, reverb slowed down version of the Joker. Like, this is, like, real 90s stand-up hour shit. Hey, hey, guys, I've been thinking, you know, what if the Joker cover the Joker? Am I right? But I'm just saying it's such a dumb idea.

Like, you could see, like, the next iteration of Batman, there's, like, a slowed-down gothie version of the Joker. And there's, like, a children's choir. on it. And they're like, I'm a joker. I'm a smoker. I'm a big night toker. It's very, and it's like, good, gung, like very sinister. No, that or, no, the riddler's going to cover Abercadabra. That's what's going to fucking happen. So we have like so much banter in this episode that we're not going to be talking about things that would normally dominate the banter. Like there's a smashing pumpkins Jane's Addiction Arena Tour set for the fall. That

that would be good material for us. Sunny Day, Realty. estate is doing a reunion show. I think it's their first show since 2010. I guess Nate Mendel isn't coming back, so it's on a complete reunion, but he hasn't been involved in a long time. We're not going to talk about those things, because we need to talk about the Minions Rise of Gru soundtrack that Jack Antonoff is involved in. And it's like the indie rock soundtrack for the Minions movie.

And I have to say, like, okay, so my kids love minions. They love those movies. And Despicable Me, The Dispicable Me, The Dispicable Me, trilogy, I think there's three of them. So I'm going to be hearing these songs a lot. So Jack Antonoff is coming into my house basically.

I'll show you the marks, kid. Intimate way. Yeah. Can I just read, I just want to read from Rolling Stones News Brief about this album, because I think this is funnier than anything we have to say about it. But we'll see if you can come up with something, but I can't think of anything funnier than this.

Jack Antonoff crafted the 70s-inspired soundtrack for Minions, The Rise of Gru, set for release on July 1st, with participation from Brock Hampton, Caroline Polichick, Bleachers, of course, Phoebe Bridgers, of course, Callie Uchis, I've heard that name, I don't know, not familiar. I'm pretty sure you did not pronounce that right. I'm sure I didn't.

Tierra Wack, H-E-R, Brittany Howard, Thundercat, Riza, St. Vincent, and more. This batch of artists have tackled classic releases from John Lennon, The Carpenters, Nancy Sinatra, Sly and the Family Stone, Cool in the Gang, Santana, and more. On Instagram, Antenov wrote, My Favorite 70 Songs, Performed by My Favorite Artist. In an original, I wrote with Sam Doe, Patrick Berger, and Kevin Parker, performed by Diana Ross and Tamim Pala, called Turn Up the Sunshine.

that just gets more and more ridiculous as the sentence goes on, like, or harder to believe. Yeah. So, I know, I mean, you got, you got, all these indie rock luminaries covering songs from the 70s.

So it's like a little bit like the Guardians of the Galaxy soundtrack, but with a little bit of indie rock in there, too. Yeah. I mean, it's like, I just love the, my favorite 70s songs performed by my favorite 70, my favorite artists.

Like, that is such a natural thing that people would talk like. I mean, it's like blink twice, Jack, if you can see us. You know, we hash out trends and we review albums here, but I think what is IndyCast, but this long-running experiment of me just becoming increasingly numb to just what our culture has become. Because, I mean, I think in past years I would have looked at something like this and felt outrage or just the desire to like roast it for like weeks.

on end. I mean, I don't, like, St. Vincent is doing Funky Town. Like, I think we have to be, we have to point that out after, like, her unfunkey 70s past siege, St. Vincent is doing Funky Town. And we, you know, I joked about Steve Miller Band at the top of the episode. Someone's doing Abra-Cadabro. No, no, Thundercats doing fly like an eagle, which given, like, what Thundercat actually, that could be half decent. Yeah, that's like I'm mildly excited about Yeah, but I mean, look, I think we've taken a pretty can't knock the hustle approach to just music in general. Like, whatever you got to do to get the bag while the bag's there, please just go for it. I don't know if this leads to, I don't know, maybe this is like a sci-op from the Grammy commission.

You know, if kids hear H-E-R on the Minion soundtrack, that maybe they'll care about them as much as like the Grammy Commission does. I can't think of anything else really. I mean, like, who is this for? It's like, no, as a parent, I'm not going to take my kids to see minions the rise of grew unless I hear Caroline Polichick doing, I'm imagining if it's a Santana song, it's not smooth, right? No, she's doing bang, bang, the Nancy Sinatra song. Okay, cool.

That's a song you hear at the beginning of Kill Bill. Okay. For you, Tarantino heads out there. Bleachers is doing instant karma. the John Lennon song. I hate it already. Look, I'm not mad at this either. Now, you know, I've been

Indycast-pilled where I see something like this, and I'm like excited because I know we'll talk about it on the show. So like, oh, this is great podcast content. I do think, you know, I'm looking at our outline here. It is funny that we talked about the Minions Rise of Gruz soundtrack ahead of the new Kendrick Lamar album that's out today. Yeah. Maybe the most anticipated album of the year.

I mean, it's hard to think of an album that has more, you know, people looking forward to hearing it. I mean, we haven't had a new Kendrick album in five years. And we're not talking about it in this episode because we didn't get in advance. I don't think anyone got an advance of this album. I guarantee right now maybe you could go on like, you could go on like Kevin Durant's Instagram and there will be like little snippets of it. but I think this is one where it's not like you're going to reach out to TDE and say, hey man, we're

thinking about hashing out this album on Indy Cash. You think you can slide this one over a day or too early? Like, I don't think we got pull like that. Kendrick doesn't need advanced reviews, you know, to get people hyped for this record. By the way, it's called Mr. Morrell and the Big Steppers.

In this economy? Wow, we are really doing the fucking airplane food jokes this day. It's all right. I think it's like ironically bad. So, you know, we're aware of how bad these jokes are. He put out that single, I guess that was this week, right? The single in video?

Yeah, that was like on Sunday, I think. How do we feel about the single? I wasn't knocked out by it. I thought it was all right. Maybe it's just like too much writing on it because you're like, oh, New Kendrick Lamar album, get the first taste. There's like so much baggage you bring to that. Yeah. If it doesn't knock you out.

I mean, I'm not calling it a disappointment. I'm just saying, I thought it was okay. Yeah, I mean, I thought the video was a little bit, This is America for my taste. I know there's like a, there's a time in place for like blunt force, but the deep fakes just seemed a little gimmicky in a way that was a little bit beneath Kendrick. That being said, it was like an opinion that I had to just kind of waded out

and keep to myself because this, I mean, we talk about like other Stan armies for, like Taylor Swift or Adele or what have you and you know what they do their thing but like Kendrick is a completely different sort of beast because there was one great tweet

where it's like look he's standing on the left side which is where the heart is located and that's him bringing the heart back into hip-hop and people will really mean that and the thing about Kendrick is that he really encourages that so this is you know what if that's true like what if it was like

no no one's going to notice this I'm going to move a little bit to the left because there's been no heart in hip hop since my last record. So I will visually put myself in the frame to subliminally communicate that I am bringing the heart. Imagine him thinking that. Like, he would be that full of himself. He might. You think he would? He might.

That is the thing. Like, Kendrick has, the thing about Kendrick, and we'll talk about this in the next episode, is that, like, the conversation around Kendrick Lamar as opposed to, like, other people at his echelon. is that he's got like a lot of kind of goofy ideas that are really hard to talk about because you know it's like he's a Pulitzer Prize winner like it and so forth like it's really tough to just say like are we sure Hallie Berry or Hallelujah is that profound or like the song about like what if God was a homeless guy so I mean Kendrick has a lot of like kind of half-baked ideas but the genius and mastery of his performance are like so fucking obvious that it's it's

almost like, ah, we'll take it. Well, you know, we'll talk about this next week. I am a little

curious, because there is like a generation of, of kids now who are removed from his, you know, sort of epoch in the 2010s,

you know, because, you know, five years, if you're a teenager, is a really long time. And there's been a lot of things that have happened. I am curious to see if he is now

moved into, you know, sort of like a, the category, where older people appreciate him and younger people pay lip service, but maybe they don't really love. I don't know. I'm dying to see it. Well, the better idea next week when we see the reactions to the record.

But I'm curious to see how that plays up, because, you know, as revered as he was in the 2010s and still is now, that's an interesting thing to contemplate, you know, the kids. Like, how do they feel about this guy? This is a great subject to entertain on a day we're talking about a radio. Exactly. Absolutely. obvious parallel there, and we'll be talking about that later in the episode. Before we get to that, we got to talk about the Evan Dando, jawbreaker feud. This is kind of an old story, so maybe we don't want to dwell on it too much, but this broke, I think it was like right after we recorded.

It was like, yeah, it was hours after we recorded to the point where our intrepid indie cast listeners are like, goddamic, you guys go back in the lab and like do a little bonus. Yeah, we, we probably should have at that point. For those who don't know what happened, you know, Evan Dando, The Lemonheads. He went on his Twitter account. I guess it was last Thursday or it might have been Friday. And he called the 90s, emo punk legends jawbreaker.

He called them Pussies. And he challenged them to a fight. And this was the beginning of a tweet thread that he did. And I tweeted about the initial tweet where he called them Pussies. And I was just amused by this because it just seemed like the most random and ill logical feud ever, you know, it's like, oh, it's like Ben Fold's going to challenge Rancid to a fight now. I mean, like, it just seemed really weird. But then subsequently he explained that they recently played some shows together,

Jobbreaker, they're doing some reunion shows and they invited the Lemonheads to open. But then I guess they fired the Lemonheads. Yes. They were going to play four shows and maybe it was just three shows, I think, something like that. Which, does that bill make any sense? Absolutely. It makes a ton of sense. I mean, like, but like, I know the Lemonhead started out more punky,

but I just think of them as like a country rock 90s band. Whoa. Like, it's a shame about Ray. That's like, that's like a punk record. That's like just like a jankly, like country rock record. Yeah, but I mean, I think they started out more in that sort of realm. And like when I interviewed Blake for Up Rocks, like, you know, him and like many artists from that era, like respect the hell out of,

the Lemonheads, you know, great songwriters. And, you know, the whole thing about this tour, you know, aside from like booking acts like the Linda Lindas is that, you know, Jawbreaker wanted to bring, you know, their friends on tour, like smoking popes and jawbox. And Evan Dando, who's like, never heard. And Evan Dando, who did exactly what you expect Evan Dando to do. Like, it was a... He said that, like, I've never listened to Jawbreaker before.

Like, that's what he said in his tweet threat. And he was basically saying, like, he was calling them doing like a... you know, like a Springsteen routine and that, you know, he wanted to, like, throw up when he heard them playing. So, like, there was clearly, maybe Jobbreaker loves the Lemonheads, but this was not a mutual appreciation. Oh, absolutely not. So it's just odd, I don't know, I guess, I mean, if you think they make sense musically, to me, it doesn't make a lot of sense. It does, but, I mean, with the Lemonheads, like, Evan, I feel almost bad talking about this, because Evan Dando's, like, struggles with addiction are, like, really well-known.

And, you know, I'm told that the shows before they got fired were, like, super incoherent and, like, worrisome. And apparently, like, at the end of this tweet thread, Evan Dando, like, tied it back into something going on with the Ukraine, which, you know, it's, that's a real triple Lutz sort of thing right there. I mean, I never thought of Evan Dando as an elite poster. But, look, it's just kind of sad all. around. But the upshot is Lemonheads, they get fired from the tour and people who are supposed to see the Lemonheads got to see the Get Up Kids, which A, makes

more sense and B, they're going to put it on a much better show, if not like one that you might want to surreptitiously capture on Instagram for like a few really sad laughs. Before we get to our mailbag segment, I do feel like we need to talk a little bit about the announcement this week that

Apple will no longer be making iPods, which I thought they stopped like five years ago. I was surprised that this was still like, were people still buying iPods earlier this year? It blows my mind. I mean, maybe they were winding down and this is like the official end of the iPod. But I wanted to get your take on this because I, you know, I've seen people write about the iPod in a romanticized kind of way, like reminiscing about the iPod and comparing it to what we have now with streaming and really preferring that era where, you know, you had your music collection on this thing and you didn't have to pay for Spotify or Apple Music or whatever. And I'm wondering if you have any of those feelings, because I have to say I really don't.

Looking back on the MP3 era, which seems like a discrete era at this point that has a beginning and an end. I mean, obviously there's still MP3s, but as far as that being the preeminent, you know, music format. I mean, we've really moved on from that. And, I mean, I still use MP3s

because I have a lot of, like, bootlegs and, like, live music and, like, you have to listen to it that way. But I have to,

I have to say that. I feel like MP3s were like, it's like the worst of, like, all worlds. Like, it's not as convenient as streaming and it's not as aesthetically pleasing

as buying, like, a physical, like, record or CD or whatever. You know, and just like, like,

buying a seat, an MP3 download for $10? I mean, people complain about when they used to charge $18 for a CD. Yeah. The MP3 thing just seems worse to me because you're just getting, like, files

that in some cases, like, you couldn't move to, like, a different player or, you know, you don't actually own the MP3s. Like, sometimes, like, you know, there'd be weird things, like, with the coding, if you had, like, something other than an iPod, you couldn't put it on there. They're so easy to lose.

I just don't feel a lot of warm feelings for that. Like, do you? I would say that, like, look, my nostalgia for the iPod and my nostalgia for like that era of music in general are just inextricable. My memories of listening to say Death Cap for Cudy's plans or like the first Girl Talk album are, yeah, like it is just, I cannot separate it from having an iPod and getting the new generation of I. iPods. I mean, I owned an iPod as recently as like 2018 or 19. It was like a touch one and it got stolen from the gym. And yeah, after that point, it's like, well, I haven't really been like downloading, you know, album promos and I haven't, you know, I don't have a lot of like, add mixtapes off datpiff.com. So I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to like buy an iPod classic on the secondary

market like I was tempted to back in the day. And yeah, I mean, I'm just kind of surprised they're done. Look, I just love organization and I love, like, arranging things. So I'm going to miss spending like two hours making sure the metadata for like all of my Lil Wayne mix tapes are correct where it's like, okay, the reason this isn't working is because this version of Little Wayne has an apostrophe after Lil and this one doesn't. So, yeah, I just think of the hours I spent trying to arrange my stuff, so I'm not, like, scrolling through six different Little Wayne entries. Well, you know, I still do that because I'll go on expecting rain and I'll download Bob Dylan bootlegs. And then I have to pay for iTunes match so I can play them on my phone. So I still do that, you know, but in terms of, like, buying a new album on MP3, that just seems.

No, I never fucking did that. That just seems like the worst way to get music. I mean, look, streaming has problems. I, but I stream music, but I also buy records. And I'm like, if I'm going to buy something, I want a physical object. I don't want to just buy MP3s. You know, that seems like a terrible way to shop. So I just, so for that reason, I don't feel a lot of nostalgia for that era.

I'm like, okay, this deserved to end. Yeah, I'd rather, like, give a band, like, $10 directly and listen to their album on streaming rather than buying a band camp version of it. Because, yeah, like you said, it's like, oh, cool. I get like a lower quality of music and I don't get to hold something in my hands. Sick. And I might not be able to play it on a different player. Am I going to be able to play this on my Pono device?

I mean, let's think about the big picture here. You know, if I'm buying Neil Young albums on iTunes, I want to be able to play it on my Pono. I mean, why do I have a Pono? I guess though I've been by it from the Pono. store. Is there a ponos? There must have been a polo store. Probably still is. You would know better than me. I haven't delved into ponos yet.

I've never gotten a polo. I did, I think I probably told the story before when I was in Los Angeles about a decade ago. I saw Neil Young and Darrell Hannah at a restaurant and I walked out and I saw Neil Young's car and he had a big pono on the deck of the car and I was like,

this man walks it as he talks it, man. He's got the pono in his car. Let's get to our Mailbag segment, thank you all for writing in and reaching out to it. It's always great to hear from our listeners. You can hit us up at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com. Do you want to read our letter this week? I do. So this comes from Kyle and Glasgow, Scotland. Nice. Glasgow. Yeah, cool. Our first Scottish listener, I think so. Yeah, a lot of Indycast core coming from Scotland. So last week you briefly mentioned the replacements, a band I haven't heard reference on Indicast too many times before, which seems unbelievable, but here we are.

Just wanted to hear both of your thoughts on the, he calls them the Ments. I've never heard them call that. They are the Mats as far as I know. But, you know, we'll let that slide. Maybe the Ments in Scotland. Ooh, that would be kind of cool. Maybe the Scouts called the Ments. Regional dialects.

Do you feel they get their just rewards for being as influential as they are, or do you think their body of work sometimes gets overlooked? Basically, are they a first ballot Indycast Hall of Fame band? Cheers, Kyle. So it's really funny that we got this email this week because I am currently in the midst of rereading Trouble Boys, which is the great replacement's biography by my friend Bob Mayer came out in 2016. Kyle, if you are a replacements fan and you haven't read that book, I'd recommend it. I think it's probably the best rock book written in the 21st century.

It's an incredible book, incredible about a research. incredible storytelling. You learn a lot about just indie music in the 80s reading that book, as well as alcoholism in the Midwest. And, you know. Our favorite indie cast, so much. Well, you know, we won't delve too deep into that right now. Anyway, I assume that you and I have different takes on this band. I'm curious to hear what you have to say.

I'll just say that for me, you know, I'm a 40-something-year-old man from the Upper Midwest. So it is illegal for me to not love the replacements. And I'll just say that I follow the law. You know, I wrote about this recently when I did my lead singer's list, and I wrote about Paul Westerberg. And in that blurb, I wrote about how, you know, there's this, someone once talked about like how Woody Allen before his scandal period, he provided a blueprint for a certain kind of like nebish East Coast intellectual

where you could take the annoying things about yourself and make them attractive attributes because of Woody Allen. And I think Paul Westerberg did the same thing for, I'll say mostly guys from the Upper Midwest who drink too much. Guys who drink too much who are judgmental can be snarky and jerky,

but at the end of the night, they're being sensitive and crying in their beer. And that is the Paul Westerberg model. that I think a lot of people of my ilk have followed and aspired to. The differences that when Paul Westerberg did it, it led to like dating Winona Ryder and things like that. Whereas for everyone else who tried to be like Paul Westerberg, it just led to like Alcoholics Anonymous

and being overweight and having a heart attack, you know, before your time. So anyway, I'll say too that I think for people checking out the replacements now, they might sound a little dated in terms of the production. I feel like it was really hard to capture them on record. I'll say, like, if you're listening to this and you've never listened to the replacements, I really recommend checking out. This live record that came out a few years ago, it's called For Sale Live at Maxwell's 1986,

which captures a show right before Bob Stinson, the original guitar player, was fired. So you're really hearing the replacements, like, in their original glory. They're playing their best-known songs. They're playing a lot of, like, you know, 70s cover. like classic rock and bubble gum pop covers, which was very much their thing in the live show. And it sounds really like ragged and raw,

and the guitars are loud. It really, I think, captures the mythos of the replacements, maybe even more than their records. So listen to that record, I think, and then, you know, drink too much while you're listening to it, fall down and embarrass yourself, and then feel bad about it the next morning. So that's my take.

I wonder how you feel, there in your San Diego sunshine. I feel like this is not a band that speaks to you. I'm just taking a guess. Yeah, I mean, well, it's funny that you mentioned Woody Allen, and I don't want to belabor this comparison, but, you know, someone who actually grew up on the East Coast and, like, you know, kind of a middle-class Jewish household.

Like, Woody Allen never resonated with me either. I'm like, fuck that. Like, I don't want, like, I always like to think about, like, something that doesn't necessarily speak to my experience. But, you know, with the replacements, like, every now and again my wife will bring up a movie like

back to the future or like Star Wars or Pewy's Big Adventure these like iconic films that you know she's probably seen like multiple times and I look back

I'm like wait a minute I don't know if I've actually like sat down and watched these movies you haven't seen Back to the Future I like I've I've seen parts of it I'm sure and I've like

absorbed all of it through cultural osmosis but, like, I cannot recall a time, even as, like, a teen or, like, a, you know, a grade schooler where I sat down for two hours and watched it. And, you know, it's, and she looks at me like I'm insane. I just want to say quick that Pee We's Big Adventure, maybe the funniest movie I've ever seen. I'm going to throw that out there. See it this weekend. And we'll talk about it next week, all right?

Okay. Watch it with your wife. She'll want to watch it because she will probably also agree with me that it's the funniest movie ever made or one of the funniest movies ever made. but that movie makes me laugh. Like every scene. They would on car rides listen to a cassette-like recorded version of it without the visuals. Because I think they like the soundtrack as well. Get your wipe out of the show, man.

We actually be talking to her, man. Like she's seen Peewey's big adventure. She pays it the proper respect. Yeah, definitely you have to watch that this weekend. We'll talk about Kendrick and Pee We Herman next week. They'll look at the next episode. Yeah. What's it?

big morale and the big adventure or some shit. Yeah, so it's just these cultural blind spots I have, which seem pretty inexplicable. And look, I've listened to the replacement. I've listened to their albums

numerous times. I think Alex Chilton was like my number one. You know, when we did the pitchfork 80s song list. And yet, yet, even though like the replacements are like the source from which a lot of the music I love comes

from, they, I feel somewhat like ambivalent towards them. Like, I like them. I think they're important, but they, like, I never had a replacement phase the way I did with like a cure or Zeppelin. I mean, I think that's kind of true with a lot of 80s indie rock. Like, I've never had the desire to, like, I'm going to go through a pixies deep dive, even though like I recognize their importance. And also, like, here's the thing that I, I know I'm going out on a limb here. And I'm not trying to like insult your entire, the entire fucking Midwest region. But like the genius who can't get out of his way sort of mythos behind them, it just doesn't really resonate with me. Like I talk about this in the 10 year anniversary piece of Celebration Rock that it's coming out in a few weeks. And I mean,

you can't get Celebration Rock without the replacements. But why that album resonates with me so much more, it's like Paul Westerberg's clearly a genius. Japan droids are not geniuses. They just like push themselves to extraordinary lengths to make something great. And, you know, that sort, I don't know, maybe that's just the sort of thing that, I aspire to more than like being this like, and I'm going to have to throw in guided by voices because I think there's like kind of the similar sort of thing of like, oh, he's a genius. But if he could just put that beer down.

Oh, you had to bring it guided by voices. I do have to bring it. Well, that's different because, God of my voices, I think, they were clearly never going to be stars. Because even when they emerge, you know, they come out in their mid-30s, they're writing, you know, super short songs that are recorded in a basement. I mean, it wasn't like the replacements where they were signed to, like, you know, Sire Records and had a lot of opportunities that they squandered. I mean, I will say that I think Paul Westerberg, I mean, he was like a janitor, you know. Like, he wasn't some guy that, like, everyone crowned as a genius. I mean, he had to, like, work pretty hard to get to where he was.

But they also had a self-destructive thing, which I'll talk about Trouble Boys. Trouble Boys does a great job of de-romanticizing that and really grounding it in, like, basically just the trauma of, like, their childhoods. Like, they had terrible childhoods. Of, like, abuse and alcoholism and, you know, so anyway. But don't bring it down to my voices here. Not feel bad. Exactly. But yeah, I think to Kyle's point, like, do they get their due?

There's no universe where the replacements were or are underrated. Like even back in the day, they were like super acclaimed. Yeah, I mean, I think at times you could, I don't agree with this, but I think you could make the case that they were overrated. I mean, they're closer to overrated than underrated, I think. Absolutely. Not to keep plugging my friend's book here, Trouble Boys, but if you get like a 500-page biography, you're not underrated.

You know, I think you're properly, you are properly rated at worst. So, they got their... I mean, there were a ton of bands that were signed as like replacement, like, you know,

like nowadays, like, oh, let's look for a band that sounds like Beach House or, you know, Mitzky. It's like, that was kind of the... Like Soul Asylum, Gougu Dolls. I mean, there was like a wave

of, you know, kind of B-tier replacements until they ended up getting way more popular. Yeah, I mean, yeah, the Gugu Dahls were such a replacement's rip-off, but they sold, like, way more records and had way bigger hits. You know, that's a sort of like part of, you know, but they also didn't screw up themselves as deliberately as the replacements did. But anyway, yeah, check out that live record, live at Maxwell's

1986. I think if you are a newbie, that I think is a better entry point than any of the records, as much as I love the records, check out that live record, I think you'll dig it. Well, let's get to the meat of our episode here. We're going to be talking about a record called A Light for Attracting Attention that is out today by a band called The Smile. And if you're like, who is the smile? Well, two-thirds of this band is Tom York and Johnny Greenwood of Radiohead. The final third is Tom Skinner, the drummer, best known for the group Sons of Kemet. Not, Mike, not the guy from the streets. No, not the guy from the streets. That would be an incredible side project.

And this album is getting a lot of attention for various reasons. I mean, of course, Tom York and Johnny Greenwood are two very beloved musicians. And they haven't made a record together in Radiohead since 2016's A Moonshape Pool. They've both been busy, of course, with their solo endeavors. Tom York has put out various records over the years. Actually, the last Tom York solo record, I thought was really quite good. that came out in 2019. Johnny Greenwood has become one of the most acclaimed film composers.

Of course, worked with Paul Thomas Anderson for a long time, but he's branched out to various other filmmakers. He worked on the Year of the Dog's score for Jane Campion, among others. But here they are working together in a group that, as many people have noted, sounds the most like radiohead than anything else that they've done on their own. And this is something I wrote about in my review, which is out today on Uprocks. If you know anything about Radiohead, you know that the creation of Radiohead records historically has taken a really long time. You know, they go through many different iterations, you know, many different discussion points within the band. You know, they aren't a total democracy, but they are a band where each member has input and is very important to the creation of albums.

and York and Green would have both talked about how this has been frustrating for them in the past. If you look at Time York's solo career, he actually put out his first record as a solo artist, the Eraser in 2006, when Radiohead was in the midst of starting to work on in Rainbows, which was a process that took about two years for them to make that record. Gosh, Steve, I really wish there was a book that, like, delved into the difficulty of Radiohead making a record. Where could I find such a thing? Well, it's funny that you mentioned that, Ian, because I wrote a book about the making of Kid A and Amnesiac that came out in 2020. It's called This Isn't Happening.

We've talked about it on the show before, but you can still buy it at a bookseller near you. Thank you for opening the door to a plug there. I appreciate it. And Johnny Greenwood, in the run-up to this album, he gave an interview with the NME where he said that he wishes that at times that Radiohead albums could be, where maybe 90% as good and then come out twice as often. Like he feels like a lot of times they end up sort of working a really long time

on the like minute details of a record and waiting for it to finish. And it occurred to me listening to this album that it feels like it's 90% as good as a radio head record. I think that's a good way to describe this record. Which to me like that means it's damn good. Like I like this record a lot.

And I think it will really function as methadone for radiohead fans that, you know, I've been waiting a long time for them to make another record, like more than the Tom York solo records or like Phil Silways, Phil Selway's solo records or, you know. E.O.B. Yeah, like the O'Brien record that came out in 2019, which are all, you know, they all have their merits. But if you're looking for like a radiohead sounding record, this isn't as good as. a Radiohead album, but it's still damn good. And I kind of appreciate how it is maybe not as perfect sounding because it means that we're actually getting a record as opposed to having to wait a really long time.

I mean, how do you feel about this album? I mean, do you think I'm on track by describing it that way? Yeah, I totally think you're on track with it. You know, like I think about the other Radiohead diaspora albums that you mentioned, like the Eraser, like, I really like that one a lot when I first reviewed it. I also thought I was probably just excited to get like a big assignment. You know, that album is good, but it's like if Hale the Thief were like half as long

and just backdrifts or like the gloaming or whatever. But yeah, and I've been kind of left cold by pretty much everything else in that realm. But here it's like, okay, well, Johnny Green was involved and Nigel Godrich is involved. So yeah, it's going to sound kind of sort of like a radio head album. them. And specifically, it sounds kind of sort of like a easier, more jazzy moon-shaped pool, which is now my listen to last week. Still feel like it stands alone in the radiohead discography. I don't love it, but, you know, I appreciate what it does. I don't know. Like, maybe you like, can we like spend 20 minutes talking about tomorrow's modern boxes or something like that?

I just feel like we haven't, or Adams for Peace, nah, I'm playing, but yeah, I mean, I hear this album, particularly the first song, you know, because that to me is like radio, that could be on a radio head album. And yeah, I like it, you know, I don't get the same, this is history and the making feeling that I get when I listen to a radio head album.

But, and I also don't, get the same sort of like, oh, this is like a band that is like central to my identity feeling that I used to get from listening to a radio head record. But hey, cool, it's out. It's something different. And I just also kind of wonder what like, you know, Colin Greenwood and, you know, Ed, think about this because it's like, man, are people going to start questioning what we actually bring to the table?

Well, you know, I actually feel like in a way this album makes a case for what Radiohead brings the table as a band because again, I don't think that it is as good as a Radiohead record. It feels like at times that, you know, there's some songs on the record that I feel like are a little, you know, they feel like a little stock to me, you know, kind of like in the back half of the record, but like, you know, like speech bubbles and skirting on the surface, songs like that are like very pretty. And of course, you know, Nigel Godrich worked on this record. So it sounds like immaculate. Fantastic.

But you know, you mentioned a Moonshay Pool. I was getting like Hale to the Thief vibes with this record too. Like, you know,

there's songs, for instance, like we don't know what tomorrow brings, which is like this synth rock burner. You know, it's like really kind of fast pace. It reminds me of like

some of the more aggressive songs on that record. I mean, really, if you look at Radiohead's trajectory on their recent records, there haven't been like a lot of like up-tempo rock

I mean, really the last one they made was, you know, in rainbows, like body snatchers. It's kind of like the last song in that mode. And then, you know, you have that song. It was the first single from the record. You'll never work in television again, which is just going right back to that. They have not, you know, hit those marks in a while. Like, you know, King of Limbs and a Moon-shaped pool, which are both records that I think have their merits.

And I like both records overall. There's not a lot of just like zippy, fast-paced guitar. rock where Tom York is like, you know, spitting shrapnel, you know, like those kind of songs, which, again, I associate more, you know, even more than like in rainbows. I think Hale to the Thief is like kind of like their last record where there's like several of those kinds of songs. I think the most beautiful song on the record, I think the song that like stands out the most to me is that song Free and the Knowledge, which is really returning.

With the acoustic guitar. And the strings come in. And it's interesting to me because I feel like a lot of times on Tom York's solo records, and this is kind of going back to Kid A, he really resists the beauty of his voice. Like he, there's a famous quote that I cited in the book. It might, I think, be the epigraph where he says, like, I'm annoyed by how pretty my voice is. So, like, a lot of times he buries his voice in, like, kind of glitchy subterfuge that, you know, because I guess he doesn't want to be associated with Chris Martin

and all the people that emulated his vocals in the 90s. But there's something about maybe working under the smile moniker where York and Greenwood both feel liberated to sound like their older selves in a way that I think they resist on proper radio head records. So, I mean, I have to say like this is a very basic thing to say about this record, but I think that the simplest and most profound pleasure of this album is hearing Johnny Greenwood play guitar and hearing Tom York

sing beautiful melodies and a beautiful voice. I mean, you know, if you like that kind of stuff, it's great. And it delivers that in a way, again, that like, I feel like they feel more inclined to pull back on regular radiohead records. You know, because I think that's always what makes radiohead records difficult to make is that they don't want to repeat themselves and they don't want to lean on what their obvious strengths are. And it just seems like maybe they felt a little more comfortable being a little more obvious on this record. Yeah.

And still, though, I think that there's, I guess, like, lyrically and melodically, there's still, I think, the desire to kind of overcomplicate things. Like, these songs do have a framework of, let's say, you know, like scatterbrain. I'm going to like discuss this strictly within the scope of Hail to the Thief which in I feel like that album's like kind of underrated now because yeah it's like a bit of a mess compared to like what preceded it but when I think about like you know sit down stand up or where I end and you begin like these songs that are considered like inessential they're still like to me they hit way harder than the music

here because I think, you know, especially like working with like these, you know, London contemporary orchestra and like these jazz people that like radio had sort of like looked down on rock music, which they happen to be really fucking good at. And it's like, I wonder how this album is going to be received six months from now as a, like I feel like this album's going to be like kind of overrated in the immediate, underrated, and, you know, and we're not underrated, but it's going to fall back as the year goes on. And then maybe like three years from now as we're still waiting on like a, and we're doing like the 10-year anniversary piece of Hale of the Thief.

It'll be like, oh, this is an underappreciated album again. So I don't know if it'll ever be accurately rated. Well, it's hard to say. I mean, because obviously radiohead fans, it's such a, you know, passionate fan base that, you know, they're going to analyze the hell out of this record. And I think for that segment of listeners, it probably will generate more excitement than anything Tom or Johnny have done in their own, just because those guys working together, I think it really is like a magical combination.

In terms of like, you know, the overall sort of critical community or maybe just like general interest audience, it really makes me think about like where is Radiohead's place right now in music? Yeah. Because for obviously people like you and I who grew up with this band and became critics when They were still, I think, looked at as like a focal point type artist, you know, that they put out a record and everyone cares about it. And not only is it being judged on the musical merits, but it's almost expected to change the paradigm of like how music is made and sold. I mean, that was a standard that they kept up for a long time. And even a Moonshape pool was a record.

I remember when that came out that, you know, people were live tweeting that record. I feel like everyone was listening to it and everyone had to have an opinion on it. But, you know, going back to our Kendrick conversation, you know, it's been five years since his last record, it's been six years since the radio head record. I have no idea when they're going to make another one or even if they will make another one. There's this whole generation of listeners who have no firsthand experience with this band, who have only had it passed down. I actually recently had a conversation with the people over at Endless Scroll, the only other indie rock podcast in the world. And of course, all the hosts there, they're all in their 20s. It was interesting talking to them about Radiohead because to them, Radiohead is a band that you hear about in college.

You know, almost like when we were in our 20s, how we heard about Pink Floyd or something. Or, you know, Brian Eno or craftwork or something. And I just got the impression talking to them that it was almost like Radiohead was homework to them. And it wasn't like a, again, a first person type love. So for that audience, I feel like a side project, even with the two main people in it, is not going to seem significant at all. Yeah, I do wonder, I don't worry, but I do wonder, you know, like whether radio has going to be seen in that sort of way. because I think that if they were to release an album, it would still be kind of a break the internet type event.

Like maybe not to the extent like in rainbows was or kid A, but certainly like a moon-shaped pool where it is the thing that like sucks all the oxygen out of the room for a period of time. But I don't know. I don't doubt that Radiohead is there may be not like the focal point of music. but I think that like people who go into music writing are still going to view them as like kind of being a true north. You know, like I can't think of too many bands right now that are in the A list or top tier that are like radiohead influenced. You know, this isn't like 2002 or 2003 anymore.

And I also wonder, you know, it's been a while, I think, since we've seen like a 90s albums list or a 2000s albums list made by, you know, a prominent publication. And, you know, back in the day, especially like, you know, me writing a pitchfork, like we never did a re-vote of the 90s one. Like you would expect like, oh, yeah, of course, okay computer is number one. Or of course Kid A is number one. And I think if one, if a publication was going to do that like in 2022, even it would be top five, but I think you would have put something else in there just to make a point.

Because I think you're right that radio head, even if they are. aged incredibly gracefully for a band of their stature. They're still kind of viewed as like being symbolic of the, you know, older white male critic who sees art rock as, you know, the epitome of like what music should shoot for. So. Right. Yeah. I mean, I think I think if Pitchfork did a 90s list now, they'd put something like Mariah Carey Butterfly at number one.

You know, and I say that seriously, it would be something like that. it'd be a pop R&B record or it'd be a hip hop record. And like, but Radiohead would probably have the highest rock record. Yes, that's exactly. Or maybe Nirvana too, but Radiohead. I mean, I do think it's remarkable with Radiohead. I can't think of another band that has been around as long as them and have been as prominent as them where if they put out a new record, there's an expectation that it will be

great. You know, like they've been around almost 30 years now. And you're right. I think if they announced next week we're dropping a record on Friday, people would be excited about it and there'd be like a thought like, oh, this could be really great.

You know, there's not a lot of bands that you can say that about. But going back to, you know, you were saying like, what is Ed O'Brien and Colin Greenwood and Phil Selway thinking when they listen to this record? I would like to pull them aside and like have an off-the-record conversation. because it is a little like, and excuse the very classic rock reference here,

but it's like Keith Richards and Mick Jagger making a record with a different drummer where it sounds just like Exel and Main Street. You know, it's like a little weird to make a record that is playing in the same lane to the degree that this record is when like your other band just seems inactive. I really wonder sometimes if there will be another radio head. album. I mean, maybe they've been working on one this whole time. I think it will be an instance where they just put out a press release and say, we're dropping something this afternoon. And we've been working on it since 2018. And like, no one will know that this has been going

on and then all of a sudden we'll have a new radio head record. Yeah, it's going to be the back to rock one. Like, hey, we're going to sound like the one that people have been trying to will into existence for like 25 years. But then, you know, but it feels like this record would steal the thunder from something like that though, you know, even if it is the full band, you know, how different would a record like that be from this album? You know, it just, it's just interesting to contemplate this stuff. I have no idea what's going on in their camp.

But I mean, the other thing about a moon-shaped pool, too, is that it sounds like a final record. It has that vibe to it. Yeah. the true, ending with true love waits. I mean, it's, I think the finality of it is, like, it's baked into the album. Like, you, a lot of the reviews of it, a lot of the reception of it, a lot of the, you know, the way people talk about it now talk about it as if, oh, yeah, we must view this in light

of finality. It's like, you know, the divorce album and it's like they end with a song that's been around since the 90s. Like, there is no better way for Radiohead to go out. Like it's just a perfect ending. And I think almost, I think maybe there's like a little bit of like, I kind of hope Radiohead doesn't make another record because then you might have to like reassess a moon shape pool, which is, it might be a little bit overrated, but that's neither here nor that.

Yeah, I mean, I guess I just hope that they'd do something again. But, you know, maybe it's better that they don't. And we'll just have, you know, the smile from now on. Which wouldn't be so bad. I like the smile. Maybe they're going to do their kid A after this one. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner

where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, want you to go first? Yeah, so gosh, that one week we took off really set us back as far as recommendation corner. So there was an album that came out on April 29th a couple weeks ago that I probably would have mentioned in the past. It's from a band called Hey, I Love You,

stylized hey, comma, I-L-Y, exclamation point. They put out a record called Psychokinetic Love Songs. They are a self-described power pop kind of music from Billings, Montana. I think of them as more kind of a fifth wave emo band. They're in the Glass Beach diaspora. If we're going to talk about the Radiohead Diaspora, we've got to talk about its 2020s equivalent, the Glass Beach diaspora.

And it throws a lot of really cool things together. There's chip tunes. There's like glam rock. There's like metal riffage going on. and it's the kind of album that people talk about. It's like, oh, we live in a genreless era. I don't know why they're talking like a 1920 news person talking about this 2022 fifth wave emo album.

But that being said, this does build on the promise of internet breath and digital lung, which were a couple of releases from last year. You know, it's been kind of overlooked or at least maybe I think it's been overlooked. Maybe some not writing about emo as much. in the public sphere. But yeah, this is in the same way that the smile is like, hey, if you like Radiohead, this will tie you over. I think that this album will definitely hit the pleasure points

if you're still waiting for the second Glass Beach album, which I fucking know I am. So I want to talk about a band from Australia called Rolling Blackouts, Coastal Fever. They put out their third album last week. It's called Endless Rooms. This is a band I've been listening to for several years now going back to the EPs that they put out in the mid-2010s. And there's an element of this band where they seem like sort of a quintessential group

that would appeal to a 44-year-old music critic. So there's a part of me that wants to resist what they do, but they're so good at what they do that I can't, you know, I have to play to type and endorse this band. There's elements of this group that I think could be described as post-punk. I think especially if they were from England, I think they would be a darker sounding band. But because they come from Australia, there's a sunniness that they bring to those post-punk influences, which of course would be jagged guitars, occasionally talky vocals.

But instead of coming across as dark, it just comes across as like very zippy guitar pop songs with the swinging rhythm section and like cool guitar solos. And essentially, I think that this record is very well-timed coming out, you know, in May because this is the beginning of barbecue season, especially for people like me that live in the Midwest. I know this weekend it's supposed to be in the mid-70s and sunny and beautiful, and I look forward to being in my backyard and listening to a lot of music. And this record, I think, is just perfect for that. Again, if you like great melodies, if you like cool guitar solos, if you like driving rhythm sections,

you're basically getting that over and over on this record. It goes great in the sunshine. I'm going to throw some hot dogs on the grill and put this record on. I think it'll be a lot of fun. Again, it's called Endless Rooms. The band is called Rolling Blackouts, Coastal Fever. Check it out. We have now reached the end of our episode.

Thank you for listening. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out. trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the indie mixtape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.