Indiecast - The State Of Livestreamed Concerts

Episode Date: January 29, 2021

Despite a handful of optimistic festival announcements, the return of live music still doesn’t look to be closing in (unless you live in New Zealand). With the absence of in-person events, many artists have been turning to both free and paid livestream concerts to keep their fans engaged.This week, Steven and Ian are discussing the pros and cons of a virtual future for the live music industry. Is livestreaming here to stay? Is it all even worth paying for? While it’s great to see your favorite artists perform, it’s hard to feel the same magic you get from being in a room with other music fans. Earlier this year, concert database Bandsintown announced a paid tier of their service, wherein fans can unlock live performances from artists like Phoebe Bridgers, Adrianne Lenker, and more. This, combined with long-running livestream organizations like Audiotree, could indicate big shifts for the music industry as we know it.In this week’s Recommendation Corner, Cohen has been digging Portrayal Of Guilt, who released Garden Of Despair, a new EP, earlier this year. Hyden is taking a step away from new music this week, encouraging wants listeners to check out Miranda Reinert’s new music-centric newsletter, Something Old.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indy Mix tape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we're going to be talking about live streaming concerts, specifically the new subscription series from bands in town and just the viability of streaming shows in general. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host, Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? So, Steve, I know we consider ourselves, you know, writers, podcasters, maybe not so much the last one. But I think like above all else, like all people who do podcasts, we're artists or artistes, if you will. And, you know, the thing with art is that you just kind of have to let the muse enter and follow her wherever she might lead. And, you know, I realized that last week as I'm pretty sure no episode we've ever done has had the instantaneous and impassioned impact as the one that we were. We've never done as the one that we did about ska.

I mean, like the moment that hit the air, people were like, yeah, it's good. Like, Just Friends isn't Scott. And like, I apologize to the band, Just Friends, the energy and the horns are ska. You do not play ska. But nonetheless, it was just like great to see, like, how many people have just been waiting to be activated by someone just acknowledging their existence. And lo and behold, on Monday, I wake up to an evening. email announcing that the Mighty Mighty Boss Tones are A,

back and B, signed to a label run by Tim Armstrong of Rancid, who were, of course, not a ska band, but Time Bomb, certainly a ska song. So I mean, yeah, kind of scah adjacent. Yeah, some like punk ska songs. Yeah, they sign Mighty, Mighty Boss Tones. And I wonder, like, you know, I feel like we touched on this a little bit last week. Obviously, they got the Indycast bump, you know, Tim Armstrong. very real listening to our show and he was like get me dicky beard on the phone i'm going to hand

him a check for 10 million dollars for the next boss tones record um i i just feel like you know we've all been locked up for a long time and um uh it's it's been kind of a grim uh you know almost almost like 12 month period now of being in lockdown and now people are getting vaccinated i think we feel like oh we're going to get out in the world now and um if ever there was a time that was opportune for for skanking i think this is the time like people want to skank out of their doors yeah go out in public skank in bars and restaurants and skank in shopping malls and skank in the town square it's really open across it's open for everything man like i i i wonder like if scah's coming back and like i hope it does like what other trends that people were just

absolutely not at all about, but it's like, well, this is better than lockdown. It's better than lockdown. Like, it's time to bring back. Well, we'll talk about one specific blog, Rock trend that came back later in this episode. But, you know, I mean, you know what's going to happen. If Scott's coming back, the thing that is immediately going to be swing. Exactly. It's going to be the swing music revival.

Oh, God. Big Bad, Doodoo Daddy. Get the Zoot suit out of the closet. You know, you probably haven't been wearing pants for the last year like the rest of us. Dust off the zoot suit. There's going to be a zoot suit riot. I think in the streets of America, once we can all get out of our homes again, we're going to be skanking. We're going to be swinging.

It's going to be a nonstop party in 2021. I think that's going to be the energy. Maybe I'll start working at the gap again. I did work at the gap during the swing Christmas of, I think it was either 98 or 99. frankly like I don't know how like I really look back on that specific time of my life as just like a mystery

of how I survive that without going insane I just thought of like I mean I was just thinking of like the Brian Adams song when you said that swing summer of 99 yeah I got my phone me and some guys from school

yeah we it was not swung a lot and we swung real hard it was more it was more like that was my first year of college and like for that brief period like the guys in the marching band who played horns like they found themselves like vaulted several steps up the social hierarchy and it didn't really last all that long so I think by the next semester like swing had already crested but you know what they they had a good run um so I don't know I'm down for whatever but you know as as people who

frequently reveal our age as writers who are children of the 90s. I must, it's clear that the next thing we have to talk about is Weezer. Well, I was going to say, speaking of ridiculous music from the Clinton administration, Weezer has a new album. You know, apparently you reviewed this album. And I wonder if that review will be up the day that this podcast posts. Yeah, I think it could have a real impact. Are we allowed to say this?

Yeah, probably. Is this top secret? No. Okay, because you reviewed the album for Pitch for it. I assume another best new music for Rivers Cuomo and Company for this record. It's called OK Human. You know, I feel like Weezer, and I wrote this once, I feel like if you put like two guys together that were born between like the ages of,

or born between the years of like 74 and like 82, that they will end up talking about Weezer at some point. Like it's just like a total cliche of that demographic cohort. And now we've totally fallen a victim to it. You know, I listen to four songs from OK Human, like the new Weasr record. I had to stop. You know, I'm not even like, I think I'm like past even like the morbidly curious stage now with Weaser. Like where you check in and you're like, oh, what the hell is Rivers thinking?

Like, you know, is this ironic? Is this serious? You know, that was intriguing to me for a while. well past that point. I mean, I don't know if you can say how you feel about the record. Oh, yeah. Look. Because this stuff is all like,

I think the cool thing about Weezer is that you, they're one of the bands or one of the demographic fan bases or what have you that still feels like people, whether you like them or not, can like, you can get a free shot at them. Like, yeah, you'll probably get some like Weezer fans, like maybe, you know, voicing their opposition to your opinion about the T-Lers.

album, but like they're kind of seen as a fan base. It's like sort of a free shot. And I think for them, there's a lot of fan bases like that, though, and they don't ask for it as much as Weezer does. Yeah. Weezer. And look, I'm saying this as a person grew up with them. I've written a lot about them. I like them. Weezer begs for it. Like a lot of, a lot of artists take shots, and I feel like they're not like line stepping as like consistently as, like, uh, consistently as a Weezer does. And this album, I mean, it seems like one of their, like, air quotes, serious records.

Although, like, Rivers Cuomo has, like, a ridiculous mustache and, like, a weird, sort of, like, coffee shop barista haircut now that he has in the music video for... Yeah, I did watch the music video for the new single. So, like, I guess I'm not totally over, like, my sickness with this band. It just sounded like... Because, I mean, like, the sort of concept of the... record is that they're working with string sections. Yeah, 38 piece orchestra.

And yeah, I mean, with this album, like, I found it to be a real Spider-Man pointing at Spider-Man moment when they were on the Simpsons last year. They were debuting a song from the Sheld album Van Weezer, which was supposed to accompany their hella megatore

with Fallout Boy in Green Day. And it was like that, like, it's, you know, Simpsons, Weas are both, like, I would not be the person I am today without those, you know, make about what you will. But they, they somehow, like, still go. And I don't know, like, I talk about The Simpsons. I talk about Weezer and I, and yet I don't know who is excited about new material. Like, it exists. It happens. They'll keep going until someone tells them to stop, which no one will. But, like, who, and like, every now and again, you'll get, I'll run

across someone who's actually kept up with everything who will say like no like there it's actually better than you think and to a degree well yeah i mean it's actually that sannel sketch is yeah that s&l sketch with matt damon and leslie jones it's like one of like i mean s&L's like falling off but like that's a pretty brilliant sketch that breaks down the you know divide between people who believe that you know they were great on the first two records and then you have like the lunatics who are like no the teal record is like a subversive active like genius and it's really fun and why can't you just like fun. I love that Weezer was on The Simpsons because I feel like that's totally catering to like the

emo Twitter demographic because I feel like emo Twitter is basically like just Simpsons memes and like, you know, self-pity. Like that's like that that that is the emo Twitter like theme. Like I see those two things coming out. You're missing all of like the DIY like R. arguments and also like people trying to want off each other with you. I was, I was being,

I think I was being a bit facetious there. That was a joke. You're talking about like, emo Twitter, like through the prism of like myself and Dan Ozzy and like, well, there's a lot of other, this is,

Simpson's memes are pretty big in that corner of the world. They're enormous. Like every time I think of like a Simpsons quote, like this pops in my head. I wonder myself, I wonder if there's been an emo song with that title before. So, the overlap is big but i mean with with weezer it's i list like short like long story short i kind of

listen to them every third album which you know kind of with which makes a new out like writing about a new album like a little more interesting because you know you haven't completely been um you know immune to whatever the heck rivers is up to and it's like it's fine like i i'm just super curious about like whether there's a young like whether it's like the doors in a way where the doors happen when like you go through your doors phase when you're feeling like young and pretentious and want to be like a poet or like you have this like ridiculous sense of self and whether there's this like regenerating younger demographic of like weas or fans who are just starting to feel like super awkward and that's when you find a sweater song and those two things

are enough. The difference with the doors is that like Jim Morrison died when he was 27 and like they didn't keep making records when he was like in his 50s and had a stupid mustache and a, you know, another dumb haircut. Like I think if he would have got that. Wieser was never cooler than like when Rivers Cuomo like went to Harvard for a few years in the late 90s and it looked like they were never going to get back together. Like that's like when they were at their peak coolness and then it's been downhill ever since then. But anyway, Reed, Ian's. review if that is up already, if not look out for it. As for me, I am never going to listen to the rest of that record, I think, ever again. And I'll be pretty happy to ignore OK human. Let's get to our mailbag segment. Of course, we did a mailbag episode last week. This was actually going to be in our mailbag episode, but then we ran out of time. But this is a good question. It's from Mike S. Thank you, Mike S, for writing in. After the great tweet the other week about the difficult second impeachment. That's a reference to my great tweet. Thank you for noticing a great tweet of mine. It got me thinking, what is the best sophomore album of all time? It's interesting because as

the same goes, you have your whole life and no pressure to make your first album. Your second album is 10 months and a ton of pressure. Obviously, Nirvana's Nevermind comes to mind, but what else? That comes from Mike. Good question, Mike. You know, yeah, never mind. Obviously, a very great choice, like one of the sort of classic benchmark second records, kind of like the classic example probably of like a band leveling up on their second record. I mean, I think bleach is great, but obviously never mind is like the, you know, every song sounds like a single in that album clearly was a huge hit and changed the trajectory of the 90s, as we all know from 90s music documentaries that we've all seen a million times.

I was just thinking about this I don't know how you feel like The Second Records that come to mind I would say like the Ben's by Radiohead Paul's boutique Beastie Boys If we want to go like more kind of older Classic Rock stuff like Astral Weeks by

Van Morrison is a great example I think Funhouse The Second Stoge's record I feel like Siamy's dream would have to be your choice Ian If I had to predict Yeah gosh we're talking about like Weasar and the Smashing Pumpkins

of the same episode, you know, a little, kind of playing to type here. But, yeah, I think what, and also, it's a great question because I think with the sophomore album, these are like competing legends where, yeah, the first album is like no pressure in your whole life to make the first one. And a lot of the reason people might gravitate towards the debut and say a band never top that is because there's just like a total lack of self-consciousness. It's seen as more of like this divine. inspiration that happens and bands can never recapture it. They get too much in their own heads or

there's too much pressure. You know, and that can certainly be the case. I mean, there are countless examples of bands who really nailed it on the first record. They did everything they set out to do. And then after that, it was just, you know, pale limitations thereafter. But the sophomore one, you know, there's a couple of kinds. Like you mentioned Paul's Boutique or Astral Weeks. Like those are ones where, you know, a group really goes off. the deep end and just does something that was completely unprecedented or not even like predictable at all from what they did at first. And then there are the ones that I'm a little more interested in. I think the ones that Mike S are referring to where it's kind of the leveling up where, you know,

the thing about making a debut record is that a lot of bands who do that have no idea really what they're doing. They don't have a real sense of like craft in the studio or, you know, they get a little self-indulgent and yes, I mean... Or they're like, it's the most derivative record usually that you make too. Like you're much more beholden to your influences on the first record. You haven't really discovered who you are. Yeah. And I mean, I would put the Ben's in that category too, which I don't think people think of it

that way now because you look at that progression of radio head records and it seems like not that dramatic of a change. Yeah. But like in the 90s, I feel like the Benz was kind of looked at, you know, to make reference to my great tweet, like, as a difficult second record, that it was like a more challenging record than Pablo Honey. I would also say, too, like, the reason that I put the Ben's or Paul's Boutique, you know, the top for me is that, like, you know, again, we think of the Beastie Boys and Radiohead

as being these, like, sort of, you know, landmark bands of their era. But, like, at the time, I think they were both looked at as, like, potential one-hit wonders that had almost, like, kind of sticky hits on the, you know, their first record. And I think there was an assumption probably in both cases that like, well, you know, Beastie Boys, they're just like this white frat boy group. They're going to fade away. Radiohead. They're like a sort of a Nirvana or Pixies also ran. You know, they're going to go the way of many MTV Buzzbin bands. And then they both kind of come up with like really ambitious second records that like blow people away. And it really establishes them as acts that are going to

go the distance and not just put out one record. Yeah. Because I think a lot of times, if your debut is your best record, a lot of times you end up fading, like, fairly quickly. I mean, some people can keep that sustained. I guess you think of like the strokes or Interpol. Or a weezer. Or Weezer. Although, you know, what Pinkerton, I think a lot of people would say is a great second record. Yeah, absolutely.

But you kind of lean more towards the level up side? You mentioned the BC boys. and I think one of the greatest examples of like a second album leveling up also comes from that sort of era. I've read a couple of really incredible books about like hip hop history, Can't Stop, Won't Stop, and the big payback. And both of them talk about what happened with Public Enemy on their first record. Now you wouldn't think of like Public Enemy as like a group that ever had trouble getting its intentions across or that scene a little tentative.

but you listen to Yo, Bum, Russ, the show, and it was somewhat successful, but, like, nobody was, like, listening to them. Like, they were, weirdly enough, just a, like, an act that was seen as, like, you know, for college radio critics. And then they make, it takes a nation of millions to hold us back. And that's kind of an example of, you know, an act that really figured out what they were doing became much smarter about studio usage, much better about, like, developing their message. and also an act that had taken criticism of their first record and really applied it. And so, I mean, that to me is perhaps in hip-hop the best example of a second record. But, I mean, Siamese dream also is in that realm because, I mean, Gish was, it was a good record. But, and I don't know how serious Billy Corrigan is when he's saying this.

He likes to, you know, print the legend as it were. but he would see 10 by Pearl Jam and Nevermind. And he would think, like, he was basically suicidal because Gish had not achieved the success of those records. And so he just, you know, hunkered down and made Siamese Dream essentially by himself with, you know, Jimmy Chamberlain on drums. And I think it's, it's, I think it's kind of impossible for us to not talk about, you know, celebration rock as kind of another record, which basic, which did the same exact thing as the first record, but a lot better.

I think those ones are pretty rare because, you know, they also took four something, you know, four years, yeah, three or four years to just think to themselves like, okay, what do we learn on the road, what works, how do we do what we did when nobody was paying attention and now that people are paying attention? How do we make everything bigger, better, and also just more confident? And that comes across there. as well. And, you know, my, I think, I think, I think, I think loveless too.

Oh, yeah, that's definitely. It has to be in that conversation as well. It's just like, I mean, isn't anything as a, is a great record, but, like, just, but, but just kind of taking what they did on the first record and just exploding it and, and then pushing it, like, to its greatest potential. And, you know, that was a band. I think it was, it was, like, 22 years then, like, you know, until their third record. I mean, so they were like, our, yeah, we.

We freaked it so hard on our second that like we're, we're just going to take the rest of the 90s off as well as the aughts. And then we're going to come back with that. So, yeah, I mean, yeah, I hear you. I mean, I do think that like the level up thing and this sort of ambitious left turn thing, I do think that they merge sometimes, like where you can level up and also just totally sort of remake expectations for like what people had for you after your debut. And I think I have to mention here, you know, like my favorite album of all time, Jimmy Eat World's Clarity, which is one of those albums where they did like it's got all the above. It's the one that flopped and got them more or less dropped from their label.

It was the one that pretty much changed the trajectory of emo as we see it. And the one where they really came in to their own as kind of a stylist. because, you know, the first album it was pretty standard issue Midwest Emo, and then they added electronics, bells, whistles, and made this album that was mostly not maligned

by most critics and got them drop and then they made Bleed American, which is another reboot. But, yeah, I think I'd be remiss not to mention the album. That's like my favorite of all time and embodies all those things. people were worried that you did not work an emo reference into this answer so I'm glad or home like no place is there but that's uh well okay now you're crossing the line uh no it's uh

so yeah lots of great second records i love second records and again i would just say that like if you can make a great second record that's usually a sign that you are not going to be a flash in the pan that like if you can make a great second record you're probably going to be able to make a great third record and so on and so forth unless you're oasis and you people with What's a Story in Morning Glory. Although, Be Here Now is one of my favorite third records of all time, too. So anyway, and here I had, you had to talk about Emo. I had to work in an oasis reference.

Everyone could check off their boxes for Indycasts for that segment. All right, let's get to the meat of our episode here talking about streaming concerts and the new subscription series from bands in town. Now, bands in town, you might be aware of that website. It was basically a place like where bands, like post their tour dates, kind of like a poll star, but like for like indie bands essentially. And they recently announced a subscription series called Bands in Town Plus. And basically like for $9.99 a month, you get access to 25 live stream shows a month.

I guess it's more than 25 some months. And this started earlier this month. And so far there's been performances by. B.B. Bridgers, Adrian Linker of Big Thief. There was a Jeff Tweedy performance, and we're also going to be looking at in the future. There's sets from Robin Pechnol, the Fleet Foxes, Flying Lotus, Soccer Mommy. There's a lot of Joe Bonamassa gigs on you, the blues guitarist. So, you know, we've talked about streaming concerts on this show.

And I've said that, like, you know, I expect this to be, a significant part of the industry, even after live concerts come back. I mean, we don't know when live concerts are going to come back. It's probably going to be, I would imagine, like a relatively slow rollout for that. And it's something that I generally support. Most of my experience watching streaming concerts is, like, in the jam band scene. Like, as, like, the jam band scene often is with technology. Like, they're a little bit ahead of the curve with everybody else.

Like, this has been a part of, like, you know, that, like, corner of the world, you know, going on like a decade almost at this point. Bands live streaming concerts, the so-called couch tour, you know, where you could just, like, sit at home and watch nugs.net and see bands play live. But now we're seeing it more in indie rock. And you and I both checked out bands in town this weekend. Why don't we start out, like, just by talking about what we liked about the service. Yeah. I would just say, like, in general, that, like, with these types of things, like, the easiest way they can get, like, screwed up is on the technical end that, like, things don't stream well, lots of glitches, or, you know, maybe they look like crap or they don't sound very good. And, you know, for a new platform, I thought, like, on the technical end, it was pretty good.

I mean, there was, like, a few glitches during, like, the Jeff Tweedy concert I watched last Saturday night. But other than that, it was going pretty well. I have to say too that one thing I liked about the performances I saw was that there was an effort made, particularly by Phoebe Bridgers and Adrian Linker, to present a live performance that wasn't just people sitting in like an empty club. Like they were trying to kind of present something that was like a little bit different. Phoebe Bridgers was in, it looked like a rehearsal room with Ian Gruska, this piano player who was also, he's like on her production team. for her albums. And then Adrian Linker, she was actually at home

or at her parents' home in like the Minneapolis area and like her grandmother was like painting behind her. Apparently her grandmother painted the album covers of like her most recent solo records. So I thought that was kind of interesting. Like I liked that aspect that was a little bit more creative

than that. And I think that is a good way to kind of think about these performances as something that isn't obviously a straight concert because you're not there. And maybe might be something closer to like cinema in a way, like a hybrid of music and cinema, like kind of trying to present it in a more sort of cinematic way. So those are things I liked about it.

What are the things you liked about like the shows that you saw? I mean, I just want to, you know, step back a bit and say to talk about like how at 999 you can stream more than 25 live shows per month. And I'm just trying to let that sink in about what it might be like to actually go to 25 shows in a month. And how like, man, what would I stream, you know, 25 live shows? Like, what would that lead me to say, well, I got 25. I might as well use it. And, you know, just like scraping whatever bottom of the barrel exists there.

But I think it's just really, I was just surprised because, you know, bands in town, like you were saying, It was like I thought of it more like a Polestar sort of thing or just something where you would check like tour dates or like fact check reviews and all of a sudden now it it might be this like major player in whatever live or quote unquote live music does. But you're absolutely right in that, you know, the the glitches were really the thing that prevented me from fully embracing this form of, you know, music broadcasting. during 2020, like I would watch a lot of bands, you know, particularly the ones I like who didn't have, you know, very high production values or sort of learning this stuff on the fly. You would go on Twitch or whatever other streaming platform and like there would be like this kind of weird warping effect sometimes. Like it would sound like a half step down and then go back up like it was like tape manipulation or something like that. And that was obviously not

at all a problem with what Bandcamp was doing, particularly with like Adrian Lanker's set. You know, the sound was just fantastic on that one. You know, not that I expected any different. And you're also, I also agree that the... And she's playing like very quietly too. Yeah. That was the thing. Like, you felt like you were, you know, sitting right next to her when she was playing.

So I guess she had a microphone, but like she was singing like, it didn't seem like she was singing as out maybe if she would in a normal show. I paid very close attention to her setup. And she had, I think she had a microphone for the guitar. and one for her vocals. But otherwise, it was like one of those shows that I would see sometimes like houses where people would just be sitting like cross-legged on the floor, like super polite to the point where it was kind of weird. But I think that, you know, and also the cabin setup really established a sense of place,

particularly with the album that she was playing from. Mostly, I believe, like songs and instrumentals. I have to point out, though, even if it is. is kind of endearing to watch her grandmother paint while she plays. People who, like, lived through the blog rock era remember this act called Cloud Cult, which, weren't they from Minnesota? Yeah, we're big on painting during shows here in Minnesota. Yeah.

And that's a big, that's a thing we love. And that was seen as maybe just like the peak of preciousness during the blog rock era. things like that or like, I don't know, like freelance whales or what have you. And I'll say this. I think we've alluded to this in previous episodes where we've talked about Big Thief, but there's like this streak of real preciousness when they talk about art, particularly Adrian Lanker, that if anything causes people to turn on Big Thief, it might be stuff like that.

But nonetheless, at this point, it's still pretty cool to see that sort of interactivity. I didn't mind it in this context because you know she was at you could tell that she was like in a house and it felt like a little more sort of intimate like if it's on stage and you're seeing it in person I think it hits differently than it did there like I didn't necessarily think

that it was precious it was very relaxing to watch it reminded me of like who's that guy on PBS that paint stuff he has like the Bob Ross Bob Ross very Bob Ross very Bob Rossi to me.

Although this is sort of, I guess, transitioning to, like, the stuff we didn't like about, you know, watching these shows and a little bit. Because, you know, I'll say, again, like, I am a supporter of streaming concerts. I think it could be a really great thing. But the downside is that, like, a lot of times it's, you know, even when it's done well, it's kind of boring. And I'll say, like, watching these shows. on bands in town, you know, I found myself looking at my phone a lot, you know, being kind of

distracted, not really ever kind of giving myself over to the, to the music. And, you know, I was asking myself, like, why am I not feeling engaged by this? Because I have watched streaming shows in other contexts, and I have been really into it. And, you know, I like all the artists I saw again. I saw Phoebe Bridgers, Adrian Linker, and Jeff Tweedy. I'm a fan. And you like those, you like them. I like all those artists. Obviously, they're all kind of coming from the same sort of singer-songwriterie wing, and it seems like bands in town is mainly in that vein right now.

I don't know if they're going to be expanding beyond that as they roll out a little bit longer here. But I was trying to think, like, why am I not feeling engaged? And I really think that for me, the thing that was missing in these bands and town shows that has existed in some other streaming things I've seen is the engagement with other people who are watching. Yeah. That's obviously a big part of like the in-person live experience. But like, you know, when I think about, say, like the jam band stuff that I've seen, you know, usually because there's such a, you know, devoted following for that kind of thing, like if you go on Twitter and you tweet about it, you're going to get like responses from like a dozen people who are also watching like the Trey Anastasio stream that night. And if you can interact with other fans in that way, it feels more like it.

it's actually happening? Like, like, the thing with these concerts is that, like, on bands of town is that I don't think, like, many of them were actually live. I think they were canned performances. And then there's a weird thing on that site now, like, where you can't, there's no archive of performances. Like, it's basically on the time that it, that it's scheduled, and then you can't go back, even, like, for 24 hours or something, which I think is, like, a pretty big negative of that

site. You know, because, like, are you going to set a clock? to watch a streaming concert. I feel like there should be like some leeway there for the viewer. Like if you show up an hour late that you can like still see it from the beginning. But, you know, another like really great streaming show that I enjoyed was like when the Hold Steady played their three nights stand at the Brooklyn Bowl in December, they did this thing like where, you know, they were playing on a bowling alley and there were screens around

them like that, where you could see fans watching them. and it sounds kind of corny when I say that, but like when I was watching it, it actually made it feel more like a party watching it. You saw people drinking beers. You saw I'm having a good time holding signs. And it kind of added to my own. It created more of like a fun festive atmosphere

that I found infectious as a viewer. Like a lot of these bands of town shows, a constant with the performers was, you know, the performers commenting on how awkward it was, was to be performing in this context. Like Phoebe Bridger said that a couple times that like she was trying to do like between song patter and she's like it's really hard to make jokes when there's no one listening.

Which I totally understand that would be awkward. But like to be reminded of how awkward and cold this, you know, scenario is isn't always like the greatest thing as a viewer. You know, it kind of takes you out of the experience a little bit. So I don't know, does any of this stuff make sense to you? Like, you know, experience? Yeah. You were kind of bored too, right?

Yeah, I mean, I, well, I mean, first with the, you know, the setting the time to be there, I mean, I think that it's trying to, and once again, we're all still kind of working through how to make this stuff work, but like how do you incentivize, you know, the eventitude? I'm just making up that word of it all. But what happens with streaming is that it has, you have to account for the fact that, like, everyone's on a different time zone. Like the Jimmy World album length concerts that are happening in this weekend next, they begin streaming at 2 p.m. on the West Coast.

Now, granted, you can watch them pretty much anytime you want afterwards, but they have to take a new account the fact that people are going to watch it on the East Coast, overseas, etc. So I'm not sure how that one's going to be solved. but as far as like being kind of bored, you know, when the Adrian Liker concert started, I'm like, I thought, like, okay, I'll check this out now, like just kind of dip in see what it's like. And when I got there, she played anything, which, you know, my estimation is by far the best song on songs. And I saw it and it's like, this sounds great. And then it's like, okay, maybe I can do something else now. It doesn't have, it doesn't give a lot of incentive to stick with the entire. entire thing. I think you're kind of screwed either way because if you can stream it whenever you want, you can think, okay, well, I'll just get back to it. And unlike in a concert setting, you know, you can pause, go to the bathroom, check Twitter, you know, just kind of do any, like there's a

billion other things you can do aside from, you know, fix on whoever's performing. And yeah, the crowd interaction is, you know, crucial, not just as music as a social event. I mean, I love concerts, you know, at not, not so much because I like to see how a song gets reinterpreted live, but more because I'm very, very uncreative in my social life. And it's, you know, it's like, oh, there's a concert in town. Let's do that because it's much harder for me to think of, like, more creative pursuits. But when I, I think you're getting to the root of what's happening with, you know, live and or film performances in the current time. Like, you know, if, I guess we can call her a friend of the pod, Miranda Reiner.

She wrote a newsletter called Something Old. And she talked about something that I think is really astute, which is that throughout a lot of 2020 live performances, like or live streaming or what have you, were supposed to be kind of a replacement for concerts, basically just recreating what you would have seen in a club, except we're at home now. And I think that what these performances are trying to do is establish something different. You know, it's like, yes, this isn't going to be like what it is being in a sweaty club, but it's also something that provides its own value. It's just trying to create this new form. And in a way, I almost think that this is going to bring us full circle back to like a pre-MTV idea of what music videos were. my understanding of this era is not complete but what i sometimes i would see like on vh one or whatever

uh like old led zeppelin videos um what like the what their equivalent is which is that like it's you know they'd make a single and like throw some live footage on it and you know that would be it would be like almost an advertisement for the record um and i i do wonder if we're maybe heading back towards that because I mean like why would I see you know like why would I see a punk band perform perform like to a crowd of no one like when well I mean I think the thing is is that and you know I want to go back to what I was saying like the shows that I responded to the most I guess like the jam band stuff in the whole city we're talking about groups that have like a real community around them and I think one reason kind of speaking to what you were saying that like people go to shows

because they love the music, but they also want to be like a part of a community. And I think that for these shows to really work as streaming, that like you have to find some way to recreate that. And I think, you know, whether, and I don't really know how you do that because it really kind of depends on the fan base in a way. Because again, like, it's not like when Fish does like a live show, it's not like they're a live stream. They're not telling people to tweet about it amongst themselves.

People are just doing that on their own. It's like a very organic thing and it creates something that's more fun. It's like it is akin to like watching the Academy Awards or any sort of like massive event, except it's obviously concentrated on a particular scene. Yeah, I don't, I mean, I think you're right. I think there is going to be something about that sort of like music video reemergence. And like if you can't recreate the sort of community at a show, maybe it is thinking more. more about these performances, again, like in cinematic terms, not just in musical terms,

like that we're not just going to sort of have this utilitarian, like, video that is kind of flat and unenvolving, that we're going to maybe figure out some kind of way to make it feel like to engage someone like you would have with a TV show or a movie, but it's, it's music now, you know. And so I'm very curious to see how this will evolve, because I think in a way, you know, Well, you know, these types of things have been around for a while. We're seeing an embrace in a wider kind of way now than ever. And in a way, it feels like we're at the beginning of something.

I can see how this evolves. Yeah. And as far as like the interaction, you know, I've tried doing that a little bit, particularly with, oh my God, like it seems so long ago. Like the first, I think it was April or May of last year or whatever, where you started to see like those minds. Minecraft festivals where you would get bands like performing or doing DJ sets within Minecraft or Twitch. I think it was either platform.

You would get like chat windows. And those are, I mean, I don't really interact much on Twitch anyway. So that whole thing is a bit intimidating. But it's it the interaction with these things is just kind of distracting in a lot of ways. because, you know, you have, like, thousands of people all trying to be in the chat room. And, you know, it just goes so quickly. Well, the chat rooms are garbage. I mean, it can't be the chat room.

You know, again, I feel like there's certain things that, like, maybe just aren't applicable to every artist. You know, I think there's, like, certain artists that are just easier to engage in that kind of way. So yeah, I don't know. I wish I had more constructive ideas here and how to improve this thing. But I do think, you know, like, when I was watching the Jeff Tweedy concert, there was a Q&A afterward.

And I wonder if there was, if there's just some way to, like, make that more part of the show. Like, again, to go back to the Tré Anastasio example, like, when he did his live streams, between songs, he could see, like, the stream of comments on

on Twitch because that's where they were live streaming those and he would like engage with that sometimes and make reference to it and be like oh yeah this guy said that he just proposed to his girlfriend and blah blah blah and I actually found that endearing I like that it again made it feel like more alive

in a way that a lot of performances so I just wonder if there's like some way to integrate that I just think I just think like the interaction of the audience and the performer is like the essential you know sort of core of like what like what live music is yeah maybe maybe maybe i need to like start doing maybe i start need to doing that at home you know like maybe every now and again like schedule to have like a beer poured on me or like design it with like you know tell my girlfriend hey like lock the bathroom for like you know

the next 15 minutes so i can't get in uh or use it just like recreate like all those things that remind me of like, oh yeah, I don't miss this stuff at all about live music. But I also wonder if like maybe we're in the midst of a reassessment of like, I'm going to get like super late aughts early 2010s like LeBlogotech or like takeaway shows, which were a major driver of like, how am I going to post new news about local natives or bear in heaven where it was these like kind of staged like. live performances that were just kind of news items, but also just reimagining, like, almost kind of stunt live performance, where they would do it in a big church or, you know,

completely acoustic or something along those lines. I don't know. I mean, I just wonder, though, like, what sort of, you know, besides jam bands, you know, we're basically living in Trey Anastasio's world right now, like, what sort of bands can stand to gain from this style? like the streaming model because you know i hear 999 a month and i immediately think spotify and i also think well you know there's more access to everything but also spotify seems to benefit the upper crust alone uh this i mean like who stands to benefit

well you mean in terms of like artists or yeah like who who like artists like who is who is who is who is set to like really take advantage of this or like because you know i think of like live music not only as like an experience but as for bands a means of you know getting the name out there and building up their reputation and being seen um you know like the more bands tour the more they you know become connected with other bands and so forth and it's like there are some you know bands that become a thing because they're live at there like who stands to, you know, level up. People who are good live,

I would say people who are good live for stand to benefit. Like, I guess. Like, like the simplest answer to that, like, it's like anything that goes viral that if there's like a clip of like a band that plays really well,

they'll stand to benefit. I mean, again, I think that at this moment in time, especially, that really, you know, even as we kind of figure out, like, the best way to do this, that it is like a net positive

that this is being attempted. Yeah. I'm glad that it's happening, even if it's not always satisfying, because I think the only way that it's going to improve, and we're going to kind of figure out, like, the best way to present this is through trial and error. And again, I think we're at the beginning, really, of, like, certainly indie bands thinking in this kind of way. But personally, I would love it if indie bands maybe took this as a inspiration to, like, kind of rethink how they do their live shows and to be a little bit more creative about it. And not only in a streaming context, but also, like, when

live music comes back. You know, knock on wood. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner where Ian and I recommend something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? All right, so if you know me, I like to listen to music that kind of counterbalances the general narrative about people wanting something that's more uplifting

or people really got into ambient music or just something that speaks to our isolation. for me, I've been listening to a lot of the new portrayal of guilt record called We Are Always Alone. Portrayal of Guilt is a band that put out a well-received, more or less screamo album in 2018, called Let Pain Be Your Guide. That was something one of my doctors said to me when I broke my foot and he talked to me about how I can know if I'm ready to run again. But, you know, they're the sort of band that opened for Tusha Amora and Death Heaven when they did

that tour. And in this new album, they worked with Will Yip and Philip Bodom and they've taken things in more of an industrial kind of cold way, but black metal sort of way.

Like, we want to talk about like sophomore album leveling up. You take like a really, really strong anthemic screamo album, but like do everything nastier and meaner and just more hostile. And that's what portrayal of guilt have done here.

And it's not, a record where I think, oh, man, I would love to see this live. Like, I think, frankly, a portrayal of guilt show would scare the living hell out of me. I just wonder, like, how my glasses would fare. But I think that this album, like a lot of the better Screamo records of 2020, is actually really well suited to isolation because when I hear this, I just want to, like, do push-ups on broken glass or do any sort of, like, exertion of like just punching things but also solo and i think with 2021 i'm hoping that there's more of an

embrace of this just kind of nastier side of rock music i think that it's generally not taking all that seriously anyway but i i also believe that as tastes become more chill or live music becomes less of a concern that stuff like this um which is really pushing boundaries and pushing the genre forward tend to get seen as more of a niche thing. I think they are. But this record particularly, I do see this as,

I don't know, maybe in like 2031, we're going to think about like a time when people had gotten portrayal of Gil tattoos. I just, I think of this record and I think of fellow Texans Pantera

with their song, they had a song called Fucking Hostel. That's this album to me. So obviously you can't recommend it highly enough. It reminds me of like The bass player from Pantera wrote a book That I can't remember his name

But Rex I think his name is Rex Rex. Rex Brown And he wrote a memoir That's pretty good So I'll That's my addendum to that Recommendation

My recommendation This actually came up a little bit earlier Ian referenced this But I just want to give a shout out To Miranda Reiner Something Old Substact And I've been into this newsletter lately

say that a lot of subsnacks, I can kind of take her leave. You know, there's not a whole lot out there that I think is really distinctive. But, like, what I like about hers is that, like, it's focused on, like, I think, sort of a specific area of thinking about music, but it's also, you know, within that, it's, like, pretty broad, and she kind of goes in, like, lots of different areas. Basically, she writes a lot about, like, how the internet and technology affects. like how we as music listeners engage and understand music and also writing about it from like a DIY perspective and Miranda we both follow her on Twitter I know her like I mean I don't really

know her at all I know her from her Twitter but like I gather that she's like like fairly young I think she's like in her early 20s so she's writing it about it in a way like you know she's she's writing about these things that we talk about on this show a lot I think especially lately. We've been talking about, I mean, obviously today we're talking about streaming concerts and just, you know, talking about streaming music in general and how this affects our experience as music fans. And I'm, you know, really intrigued to always read Miranda because I think she's a good writer and also she's coming at it from a perspective that's like, you know, not two middle-aged guys, you know? She's like, she's a younger person, you know,

someone who's born like in the late 90s and someone I think who is coming at this like from a different perspective maybe than you and I because you and I can remember a world where the internet didn't really even exist and then you have this generation obviously that was sort of born and raised

in the internet era and just how that affects your perspective on these sorts of things so and I also say that I think Miranda's funny too which is also helpful to me because I feel like in general I'm always looking for music writers who are thoughtful and smart but also have a sense of humor and that can be really hard to come by I think in in music writing unfortunately but yeah I would you know if you're curious about like

again a lot of things that we talk about on this show but you're looking for a less washed perspective I would check out the something old substack from Miranda right yeah it's good stuff All right, well, thank you again for listening to this episode of Indycast. We will be back with more reviews and news and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Taped newsletter. You can go to Uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.