Indiecast - The State Of Mainstream Rock: Måneskin + White Reaper

Episode Date: January 27, 2023

This week on Indiecast, Steven Hyden and Ian Cohen delve into the world of mainstream rock and assess the state of major-label bands waving the flag for guitars in a pop-dominated world.In the "meat" portion of the episode, they review the recent album by the viral Italian band Måneskin (30:28), who make their (mostly) English language debut with Rush! Is this record enjoyably dumb or just plain dumb? They report, you decide! They also talk about the latest LP from White Reaper (44:09), Asking For A Ride, a lovable one-time indie act who made the transition to the big leagues without losing their sense of humor or ability to write a hearty arena-rock hook.In the banter segment (1:40), they talk about the latest news regarding Panic! At The Disco (they're breaking up) and Fall Out Boy (they're putting out a new album). They then transitioned to talking about a happier topic — the 20th anniversary of Zwan's Mary Star Of The Sea, a long lost classic worth revisiting (14:39).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 123 and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about new albums by Monoskin and White Reaper. My name is Stephen Hayden and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. I hope he's prepared for me to go negative in the banter segment. Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? I really hope we haven't officially codified, like, let's get to the meat of the episode within 30 minutes because like this is more of a you know when I make like pork shoulder in an instant pot like I feel like I have to just like set it come back in 40 minutes and just like let you cook I am so I've like very rarely been more stoked to hear a banter segment than this one well it's interesting because we are basically doing like a state of mainstream rock episode like we didn't plan this it's just how things aligned. Because we got the Mona Skin Talk and White Reaper in the meat segment.

And then in the banter segment, we have two bands who I hate. I hate these bands, but they're both in the news, so we're going to talk about them. And like I said, I'm going to go a little negative here. I might get a little rantey, and I just want to apologize in advance, but hopefully for our listeners and for you, Ian, it'll be cathartic. I don't know how you feel about these bands. Let's find out. The first band is Panic at the Disco.

They announced this week that they are breaking up. I think they're doing like one more tour. Sure. Right? I think they're doing a tour. It's a little strange because this band is basically the lead singer, Brandon Yuri, and ringers. They started out as a band. I guess it was early odds.

Yeah, 2005 or so. Like, I think they got signed to, just to kind of a spoiler alert, they were signed to Pete Wentz's Decadence label, I think before they played even one show. So that album came out in like 2005. Yeah. And at some point, the other Panic at the discos were scattered to the winds. They're not in the band anymore.

So it's just been Brandon Uri. Is it Yuri, Uri? Gosh, I, a Uri. Yuri. You know, if you're listening, Brandon Yuri, like, you know, right? We're really like going out on a limb with some of these fans, like Monoskin, like Brandon Yuri, we don't, we are not 100% certain how these things are pronounced. Monoskin, I was looking at their appearance on the Ellen DeGeneres show,

and she pronounced it like that. So going with the Ellen pronunciation of Monoskin. But back to Panic at the disco, you know, when I think about this band, I don't know if you remember this, but do you remember, like, that video of Pete Buttigieg supporters? How can I forget? Dancing to High Hopes? How can I forget? Like, that is the, gosh, that, I mean, if we're, if we're, like, doing, like, the time capsule of, like, 2020, like, so much other, like, terrible pot.

Like, I would say that's, like, that might top the Gal Gadot Imagine video. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's one. of those things where like that's the thing that could turn me into like a Tucker Carlson viewer you know like just peak like left wing lameness

right there and flash mob cringe it's like I thought we left that shit in 2012 and it's perfect that it was scored by high hopes which is I'm going to use this word a few times talking about this band and the other band spoiler alert but it's fallout boy is the other band that we're going to be talking about here

the word crass I'm not talking about the punk band Crass. Talking about the word crass, the dictionary definition of crass is lacking sensitivity, refinement, or intelligence. That to me just sums up what that song is, High Hopes. And I want to talk to you about this

because, I guess we'll just kind of branch this into the Follow Up Boy conversation too, because Fall Out Boy has a new album coming out in March. And so I shouldn't totally go nuts maybe in this banter segment because we'll probably review it down the road. But was this like the first generation

of like punk bands or ostensibly punk bands that didn't have any sellout baggage? Because a song like High Hopes is like the most egregious sellout move that I can imagine. Like where you are just pandering

shamelessly to the worst instincts of like modern pop music to have a hit and it worked because that song I think has been streamed 1.3 billion times. Lord Huron numbers. Yeah. They're laughing all the way to the bank. But it just makes you think about Green Day, like how Green Day got crucified in the 90s because they put out good riddance and it was an acoustic ballad and it got played at graduation parties and that was supposedly a big sellout move. Meanwhile, fans like Panic at the disco put out high hopes or all the awful post-hiatus singles that Fallout Boys put out, like centuries.

Oh my God. Centries, probably the worst mainstream rock song of the last 10 years. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that. They skate for these egregious sellout songs. Like I see millennial and zoomers. I'm calling you out millennials and zoomers. Many of whom are music critics, many of whom I like, but they defend these bands. And look, sellout stuff, I don't really, I'm not a punk purist.

opposite of that. But there is something to be said about if you do something that blatant, where you're just pandering to like the lowest common denominator, like you ought to get roasted for that. Just making a shitty song that gets streamed a billion times. You ought to get crucified. And I see so many millennial and zoomer people who are like nostalgic for middle school who defend these bands and they're fucking awful. Yeah. I don't like, I don't hold it against these bands for like, being sellouts or whatever because I mean like panic at the disco like they had no cred to begin with so I almost like appreciate their trajectory of like just making like pop music like you know

he's a Vegas guy he's like a you know a theater kid it's theater kid pop music like no different than like Mike you know M I KA if you remember that guy or like CIO for that matter fallout boy like I mean look Pete Wentz released a lifetime album on Decadence you know he's got he was in like a lot of, like, aggressive punk bands in Chicago. And so, I mean, they do have, like, real roots. But, yeah, I would say, like, Fallout Boys just had a very interesting career in that I almost appreciate the fact that they're not trying to, like, represent for punk music anymore, that they're just like, yeah, here's where we are.

Like, we're just going to make, like, jock jams. and you know what more power to them. It's like weird because, yeah, there are, you know, there are millennials or Gen Z people like being nostalgic for that shit. I mean, like, look, I like a lot of bullshit in middle school too. And, like, I can at least see how fallout. Like, I kind of see the appeal of early fallout boy. Now, mind you, this stuff was coming out when I was like 24, 25, 26,

when I was like going full indie rock, like full emo rum Springo where I like I stopped listening to that music altogether. Um, but, you know, like, I like one song from each of these two bands. Uh, I, I can, I can give them that. I've tried my music writing career would be far more, um, lucrative if I could, like, convince myself or like, you know, fake liking these bands or like my chemical romance. But I think that's just kind of the cycle of life, you know. Let, I say let the, uh, I, I say let the middle schoolers and Gen Zers. like the Fendus band. What I can't condone is like hearing high hopes or centuries, like every time I go to the grocery store or like watch ESPN.

This is where I get mad. I mean, you know, you brought up my chemical romance or did you bring them up? I did. Or was that just something I thought mad. Look, they're far more credible than any of these bands. Yeah, they're, they're leagues beyond these two bands. The Fallout Boy, you bring up an interesting point. They're better than Panic at the Disco, which in a way makes them worse.

the panic of the disco because there is a decision it feels like a more conscious decision to again go the crass route to just totally make ugly sounding garish over the top horrible pop songs

that are engineered to get played a lot like it just fits the radio format so well but there's no soul behind it at all there's a soul behind it but it's more like centuries No, that song is bullshit.

Like, I will defend, look, their aughts era work. I can see that. Like, there's some decent stuff there, but the post-hyatus... Yeah, it's terrible. Which, by the way, okay, so the new album coming out in March,

it's called So Much for Star Dust. Four is in parentheses. I love that, yes. So it could be so much Stardust or so much for Stardust. They released the video this week for the single Heartbreak feels so good,

which has a cameo by Rivers Cuomo. Just in case you thought, could they go any lower? Which will answer is yes. Who could go lower? Fallout boy or Rivers Cuomo? Well, it's a, however you want to interpret that.

And it was, the video was described by Stereo gum as hijinks heavy. Ooh. I like high jinks. I like japes. I like capers.

I like all that stuff. It says it all. Again, like I go back to the Green Day example because I feel like they, like, Billy Joe Armstrong couldn't go to like Gilman Street anymore or whatever because Duky sold 10 million records and they were just slammed for being the sellout band when really Billy Joe Armstrong's biggest crime is that he just writes really hooky songs. Like I think anyone, if you're talking about pop punk, like he has to go on the Mount Rushmore, right? Yeah. Of like the greatest practitioners of that. He's a great songwriter. It's like he wasn't going to be playing basement shows forever because he's just a great songwriter. That's his biggest sin.

And Greta's made bad records too. They've never done anything like, again, as just egregiously sellouty as Fallout Boy. Everything that they've done, you know, you could say like, oh, it's a little too slick or whatever, but it's still punk-sounding music. I don't think they've embarrassed themselves. Yeah, they wear too much mascara now, or like the eyeliner. The eyeliner era. And they're looking like a little waxy these days. But, you know, I mean, the thing with Fall Out Boy, too.

And we're going to get off of this because I feel like this is too much anger at the beginning of this episode. I don't want to just rant. We got to let this ride, man. I'm feeling this. I think the thing with Fall Out Boy, my aversion to them, it's, it really starts with Patrick Stump's voice. Yeah. Patrick Stump, who seems like a very nice guy. I've seen interviews with him.

I would love to have a cup of coffee with him. I'm sure we'd have a very pleasant conversation. But his singing voice, it just combines things that I can't stand. He has the whiny punk guy voice, which is like the middle-aged guy that sings like he's trying to sound like he's 15 years old, which I used to have more tolerance for that. That tolerance is mostly gone at this point. life. And then he's also like a fan of R&B, you can tell, because he does like a lot of sort of R&B vocal affectations, which is great in an R&B context, but when you have Patrick Stump doing it, along with the whiny punk guy voice,

and then he's bleeding so loud in the chorus of centuries. It's like musical kryptonite to me. I cannot stomach it, you know. And obviously a lot of people love it. It's, like uniquely unbearable to me. I love the fact that like you described his voice in that manner and this guy literally made an album called Soul Punk. Exactly. Exactly. Which

like if you're Joe Strummer and you make a record called Soul Punk, I'll get behind that. I don't know. I'd rather if we're talking about like my least favorite band ever I would say that's like social distortion because they are like they would make a they would

they're like the type band who really would want Joe Strumber to make an album called Soul Punk. I won't get into social distortion. I'm not going to like, I don't want to run the risk of like walking around San Diego and have a guy like covered in sailor Jerry tattoos beat the living shit out of me. But maybe we'll save that for another episode.

Just like a guy with like the greaser haircut and wearing a bowling shirt. When you're like, you're like you're either a social distortion fan or you're in smash mouth. Like, one of the two is true. You don't know for sure. All right, let's get out the anger here.

I've been, this is too much anger. And I apologize. I don't people listen to this show in the morning. They're going to work. Maybe that was too much anger. So we're going to tone it down here. Let's talk about something that we're both happy about. And this is something, I guess, that we're nostalgic for.

Yeah. Speaking of, like, shit. Speaking of, like, you know, possibly shitty music led by, like, guys who have, like, very strange ideals about selling out. Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, there might be a hypocritical pivot here, but it's okay. We all are contradictory human beings. It's a dialectic, yeah. None of us are consistent all the time.

But I wrote a column this week about the band Swan, the short-lived supergroup fronted by Billy Corrigan. Because the one-and-only swan album, Mary Star of the Sea, it's the 20th anniversary. I believe the release was January 28th, a day burned into music. history. We all know. And it's funny because I was, I started tweeting about Zwan earlier this month.

And it started out as a bit because I said, oh, there's not a whole lot going on in January. So maybe I'll write a column on Zwan. And there was so much response from people that I was like, okay, I actually have to

write about Zwan now. And the thing I discovered is that there was like a passionate fan base out there for for Zwan. And obviously it's an offshoot of Smashing Pumpkins fandom

which is really, I mean, the online fandom for Smashing Pumpkins I would put up against any 90s alt rock band. I mean, they've really, I think, survived. Despite Billy Corgan's best efforts

the fan base has survived. And I think they've translated to younger, and we've talked about this before, and I think they've translated a bit better, compared to like, say, a band. I wrote a book about Pearl Jam. I mean, not even close. I think way more younger people care about smashing pumpkins.

But I'm curious for your take on Mary Star of the Sea. This album is not available on streaming platforms. Although, apparently Billy Corrigan said on his podcast that there's going to be a reissue of this album. Because apparently there's like a ton in the vaults.

Like a ton of unreleased Swan material. I can't wait to be, I can't be, I can't wait for the email I get from my editor. Like, hey, Ian, there's like a 10 album, uh, deluxe version of Mary Star of the C. Like, ever since I reviewed the deluxe version of the Aeroplane Flies High, uh, which was like a, God, it was like a 10 album reissue of a fucking like B-Sides record. Like, I'm like the pumpkins guy. I can't wait. Yep. You're going to get the Zwan call up for sure. Oh, I can't wait. Um, this is an album that I remember at the time was sort of

of, the reaction to it was pretty meh at the time. And I think because there was a perception that Billy Corcoran was just recreating the smashing pumpkins with a new band. And it was too soon after the peak of the pumpkins. And it just didn't seem very fresh, especially in 2003. I mean, this is like, you know, the New York City, you know, post-punk thing was still big.

Right. You know, new metal and, you know, it was like, the sound of like radio rock like Lincoln Park having huge hits and all that stuff. But I actually feel like this record now sounds a lot better in part because of what came afterward.

On this record it's a little overstuffed, but I think it's the best example of Billy Corgan just writing straightforward really catchy songs in a way that he hasn't really been able to do since then. I mean he's always

was making these huge concept records. But, like, with Swan, he was just like, I'm going to try to get on the radio. And I'm going to write really kind of catchy power pop songs almost. And that to me is, like, the appeal of that album. Like, honestly, and lyric, like, songs like that, the singles. Yeah, good songs.

It's just simplified pumpkins, basically. Yeah. And Corrigan being like, I'm like Billy Joe Armstrong. I just write great melodies. I break, I bang out hooks. That sound good on the radio. So I don't know. Did you listen to that record at all?

Like recently, I mean, because I feel like that's the strength of that of that record. Yeah. My history with this album is like kind of weird because I kind of don't want this album to be on streaming because it is so tied into its era for me. Like not even like owning it on CD, like owning a burned copy of this CD. Like I had to put like I have a version on my hard drive, which is just like really shitty. like 128 kilob like KBP mp3s but even back in 2003 when like I like ripped it off whatever like lime wire whatever was popping in 2003 um I found out like a little bit later that like I had a version of settled down which was like a it was like a 30 second loop that played for five

minutes and I realized like wait a minute this is not how the song actually goes but it's not that much different than the actual song, which is like really repetitive in and of itself. But, yeah, when I go back to this album, a couple things stand out. First of which is that I had no idea about the lore surrounding it. About, I mean, the same thing happened when I did a 20th anniversary piece on Machina Machines of God, where like Billy Corbyn was talking about like how he's going to have an animated series behind it and all these other things. Like, I had no clue about the interpersonal beef, which, God, I wish that they followed through on, like, filming the entire making of it.

But, you know, this album, I think it benefits from not being on streaming because it's the kind of album that I can trick myself into thinking is way better than it is by an account of not hearing it. I revisited this past weekend, and, I mean, yeah, the first half of it, bangers straight through. I mean, lyrics, great song. Honestly, great song. And it's also somehow, like, worse than I remember because then you get to the second half of it where it's like, like, Baby Let's Rock, Endless Summer, and yeah, like...

I'll defend Endless Summer. I like Endless Summer, even though you have to imagine Billy Corrigan actually go into the beach. Yeah. When you listen to that song, like the palest man of all time, it's a little weird. Yeah, Baby Let's Rock. It's like, self-explanatory.

And then the 14-minute song. I like the 14-minute song. Because that's the only song where you can hear, I assume that's Matt Sweeney. You would know better than me. You're more of a super wolf guy. Well, I don't know. I mean, it's hard to know, like, is Billy?

Because otherwise, he's just soloing all over the indie rock guys on that record. It's almost like, Billy Corgan hated indie rock so much that he's like, I'm going to get these high-profile indie rock guitarists. I'm just going to show them up. Yeah, this man is playing 5D chess at all time. Like, I'm, like, inspired by how much Billy Corgan despises indie rock politics, you know? Yeah, it's so much that he, yeah, he forms a band with these guys. And then, yeah, it's a disaster.

And on the other end, like, you have, like, these indie rock legends who are like, yeah, I'm going to get paid. Which is funny because, like, the entire time, like, Billy Corgan's, like, none of these guys want to be successful. none of them want to put in the equity but like they're all finding their ways to like con Billy Corgan it's it's just such a fast it's such a fascinating dynamic and like Matt Sweeney I mean he strikes me as like a very nice guy

who is collaborated with like a lot of different people it seems like a pretty easy guy to work with so it's odd that even he couldn't coexist in the bed although it's not really out at all but again I'll just say like I've really I really got a glimpse of like Swan fandom this month. And it's like there are people who collect Swan

bootlegs and, you know, they're obsessive about that band. So I think based on the bootlegs, that's where you can really hear what kind of band they were. Because they sounded really good as a band. I mean, they're a good band. Like, on the record, I'm just not sure if Billy's doing like the Siamese Dream thing where he's just overdubbing all the guitars. It's hard to tell. Because again, it sounds so much like

smashing pumpkins. But for now you can go to YouTube and hear the record. Or you can go to a local used CD store. It's definitely there. And get it, or go on eBay and get it. That's how I got it. I think I have a couple copies of that

CD actually. I couldn't find the one I had, so I bought another one while I was writing that story. Let's get to our mailbag segment. Thank you all for writing in, and it's always great to hear from our listeners. You can hit us up at IndyCats. Mailbag at gmail.com. You want to read this letter, Ian?

I think I do, yeah. So this comes from Michael, a self-described coastal elite in West Hollywood. It's my old stomping ground. So happy-ish new year, or no, happy new-ish year, Stephen Ian.

In the Rolling Stone interview with Boy Genius, their co-producer contrasts yoga sessions with Phoebe Bridges to working with Manchester Orchestra, who never want to exercise because they're nursing a bourbon hangover. This is the opposite extreme of the arm, and it got me thinking about whether there's an indie band even less likely to work out the Manchester Orchestra, and it was harder to brainstorm than I expected. I feel like Interpolar secretly ripped while Big Thief go jogging but just don't shower or change their clothes afterwards. On the other hand, oh, this.

Taking shots. Taking shots. On the other hand, there's no way someone like James Murphy lasted more than two weeks on a gym trial membership. So who do you guys think is the artist who, like me, feels three days of soreness every time they lift the heavy package up to their room? Okay, so we got to be positive here. I'm not going to, you know, we preach body positivity on this show. We do. So we're not going to, yeah, I will say, you know, even James Murphy, I'm sure he works out.

Yeah. Because the fact is, is that if you're a performer and you're doing like a two-hour show in front of like thousands of people, that's a physically taxing. activity. So, like, you have to be, like, a pretty good shape, even if, like, you may not look like you're muscular, you know, like, the guys in the national, you know, like, they're all, none of those guys are, like, ripped.

But, you know, they're nearing 50. Yeah. I think Berninger might be over 50. And he's singing in front of all these people. He's got to, like, walk around the stage. He's also chugging some wine while singing. Yeah, wine. Wine I put in, like, mock

quotes because there's a good chance that he's like I don't know pounding Gatorade Zero or something in that well okay you know all right well even even if it is Gatorade Zero it's still uh you're up there in front of a lot of people if you're gonna sing and play and all that stuff and you don't want to get winded after 15 minutes I think you're at least doing some cardio yeah and uh you know watching your what you eat to stay to stay trim so I imagine that every performance is probably doing some kind of gym work. I mean, you, I don't even know why I'm talking. You're the one who should be, you're the dietitian here.

You should be addressing this. Does that sound right to you, though? I mean, I find it hard to believe that, like, any performer isn't doing at least like a little bit of exercise. Yeah, I think to Michael's point, when they say that Interpol are secretly ripped, I think that, like, most musicians who are over the age of, like, 35 or even 40 are definitely in better shape than younger bands.

Like Interpol to me has that Trent Resner possibility where a band that was like once associated with like this dark and druggie music, they eventually get sober and like become really into physical fitness. Like I'm in like less interested in like that these guys clearly don't work out. bands rather than like the secretly jacked guys. Like I've seen pictures of Sufion Stevens where that dude's like straight up guns out, man. Or Colin Stetson that, you know, saxophonist who looks like a college football strength coach. I bet that James Murphy like totally like does some bar classes or things like that.

You know, maybe he uses like his American Express points or whatever. But the band that like, I mean, there are a lot of easy targets as far as like bands I don't imagine having a lot of physical fitness. But the one band I can't imagine, and we're just going to keep it to the fellas. Like the one band I can't imagine like going to the gym is actually Phoenix. I think for them, it's like not I look at them. It's like look at these slovenly assholes. It's more like when you look at them, like they are just like such like life of leisure people

that I just cannot imagine them ever breaking a sweat. Like can you imagine Thomas Mars with like the life he lives? like, I don't know, like hanging out with Sophia Coppola and like trying out scarf samples, like doing like deadlifts. I think that would like kind of ruin the image of Phoenix if they were actually to like set foot in a 24-hour fitness or even like one of those, you know, those private gyms in West Hollywood that Michael probably drives by and like they, they, it probably looks like, you know, just like a shutdown house when in actuality like the elite of Hollywood or, you know, doing, uh, doing burpees. See, I could see the Phoenix guys having like a pickleball game every week. They get together for some pickleball, and that's how they get the cardio in that they need to stay fit. Yeah, but even then, I think you're right.

I don't think they would sweat playing pickleball. They would look perfectly tousled by the end of it. Like every hair kind of askew, but perfectly. Because there's also people that, like, they have a certain image where if they were to get fit, it would actually undermine their music. You know, like, like MacDamarko. Like, MacDamarko is someone who I imagine walks and probably jogs. But, like, if he hit the weights too hard, it just would be in Congress with his music. Like, it wouldn't fit.

You know, you don't want the guy, you know, playing Chamber of Reflection to be all chiseled. You know, he's got to be a little rumpled. So I think it's that fine line. Because, you know, like Sufion Stevens is really jacked now. Yeah. Which is good for him. It seems like he is really happy doing what he's doing. I do think it's possible sometimes for people to get a little too jacked.

You know, it's like you don't want to be overly muscular. It gets a little out of control. We're looking for tone here. Looking for tone. Yeah, you don't need to like beat up people, especially if you're Sufion Stevens. Not judging at all, though. Good for him. he's a happy guy it seems like we're happy for him here but again I'm not throwing stones at

anybody because I'm gym reverse myself I do not go to the gym but I do walk five miles every day yeah so get those steps in yeah I think that's what it takes to get 10,000 on your Apple health app you're right I typically get between 10 and 13,000 steps a day so and that's what I'm doing as a music critic, because I feel like as a music critic, I can't look too good. I've got to look a little rumpled myself, so I can walk, stay in reasonable shape, but, you know, no one's going to mistake me for... You can't show up to the whole steady gig looking too jacked. I mean, that just means you're not really listening to the music. Damn straight. All right, well, let's get to the meat of our

episode, and I think we did hit the 30-minute mark, just about. I think we're, we might be a few seconds over, but I think we hit the 30 minutes. After all the talk in the banter that we weren't going to hit the, hit the meat on time, I think we actually did. There's actually a bunch of like outtakes, like a swan album. We have like two hours that Brian cut of like you just kind of going off completely on centuries. This is fake. Yeah, it's true. I was I, I rented for so long that I blacked out and Ian went back to bed and, uh, I think you actually went into work for a bit, and then we had to call you out of work

to record the rest of this episode, because I was just speaking in tongues by the end. It was crazy. Let's talk about monoskin right now. And again, this is our state of mainstream rock address in this episode, because Monoskin, for those who don't know, this is a band from Italy. And they are like the hot, young, mainstream rock band.

Are they young? I don't know how old they are. Relatively young, I think they're in their 20s. All right. That's a good question. I don't know that. Maybe you're thinking there's like a Robert Pollard thing going on here, that they were like in their mid-30s, and that's when they finally hit it. I mean, they look young.

But I guess I'll say young in sort of like a career sense. They've been around since 2016. For some reason, I feel like they had been around. Yeah, I feel like they had been around for longer. But you know what? Yeah, 2016. They're 2016, but they really don't enter like the worldwide consciousness until 2021. That's when they win the Eurovision Song Contest, and they did it with a cover of a 1967 four-season hit called Beggen.

And I don't know if you out there in Podcast Land have heard the song Began. I heard it on the local rock station about a year ago between Chili Pepper songs. Like they played, you know, a ballad of rain dance Maggie or whatever. They did not play that one. They played Danny, California. They played, you know,

they might have played other side. They did not play Rain Dance Maggie. This station goes deep with the chili peppers. I wouldn't be shocked if they dropped a little, you know, Frosante Les-era chili peppers. But anyway, I heard the song on the radio. And it kind of sounded like a klezmer version

of like a Buccauxer version of like a Buccafers. Cherry song to me. But huge viral hit streamed 1.2 billion times on Spotify. They had another viral hit. This was an original song called I Want to Be Your Slave. That's been streamed about 750 million times.

So between those two songs, over two billion streams. So a big band. And now they're back this month with their first mostly English language album. It's called Rush. It's co-produced by Max Martin.

who you may know from like a million pop hits going back to Backstreet Boys, I want it that way, since you've been gone by Kelly Clarkson, yada, yada, yada. And there's also like a long list of other producers on this record that have been associated with bands like Walk the Moon and group love

and Imagine Dragons if you're wondering what zone this band is in. Is Jack A-Anthanoff on there? No Antenov. I mean, there is a woman in this band, so I'm kind of surprised about that. It's true. Antenoff.

he's going to be lurking maybe at some point. So I wrote about this band this week, and, you know, the record, we'll get to the record here in a minute, but one of the things I was talking about in my column is the idea that, like, every few years, it seems like there's a band like this that is sort of like a caricature of a rock band.

Like, they look and they sound like what an arena rock band was in the 80s or 90s, and it always causes people to talk about how rock is back. There are no successful rock bands, and now there's this band that's successful, and they're going to bring rock back. And it's always odd to me, because I always feel like there's like a weird cultural amnesia

whenever a band like this comes along that no one ever remembers the other caricature rock bands that are successful, because there's actually quite a few. You know, like you've got Greta Van Fleet, You've got Ghost, you've got Youngblood. Even someone like Harry Stiles, who his music doesn't really rock,

but he acts in a way that was associated with transgressive rock stars in the 70s, and that causes people to call him a rock star. And I don't know, in my piece, I just was sort of bemused by this, that the only bands that inspired, fire like rock is back conversations are like the

bands that are just trafficking in the most outmoded stereotypes of what a rock band it's supposed to be and I don't know it's just amusing to me but at the same time it proves that the clichés of a caricature rock band are like

pretty damn commercial I mean yeah they're not doing weekend numbers or you know whatever the rapper de jour is but 1.1.2 billion streams, that's like nothing to sneeze at. I mean, it's like pretty big. So there's clearly an audience for this sort of like

cartoonish type rock band. Yeah, I think, well, I think one of the reasons that, you know, this band might have, you know, the rock is back sort of talk on rather than like, who the fuck are these guys?

I think they can get away with looking like this, maybe because they're Italian. Like, they can totally pull it off. Like, I don't think an American band can really look like this. But I think that the conversation about like monoskin is like entirely based on screaming because like, you know, I think about like how you first heard it, which was like on rock radio. And I just love how, you know, rock radio and you're part of the country is exactly the same as like Southern California where you're either like hearing the red hot chili peppers or like not chili peppers.

Those are the two categories of rock music and rock radio. But, yeah, I heard this song first time in like 7-Eleven, which is usually where I hear like, you know, like you were saying, like maybe the new Justin Bieber or like the weekend song. Like I thought it sounded like live circus mental jewelry. Oh, man. Yeah. There was like some slap bass in there, isn't there? At least the rhythm. The rhythm itself is like kind of mental jewelry-esque, like Operation Spirit.

But, you know, like, it was like one of the songs that's, like, ubiquitous enough for me to hear at 7-Eleven. And, like, I thought their trajectory would be similar to, like, the other band I used to hear all the time at 7-Eleven and absolutely nowhere else, which was magic and their song, Rude. Oh, man. I like that song. Like, I'm not going to front, but. Oh, man. That is a blast from the past, right away. But, um.

Magic? Yeah. With my skin, I mean, like, it's cool. guess that like a presumably rock song is like doing those sort of numbers because if you look on Spotify like rap and like you know R&B and pop are just like fucking destroying rock music like young gravy has like about as like some like I look this up like young gravy and rich Brian have like seven times as many monthly Spotify listeners is boy genius not that's like the only metric but it's like If you're primarily writing about, like, music, you know, like in Rolling Stone or the Atlantic in, like, its contact with the pop world, they are, like, monoskin matters.

But the thing about them is that they also, I compare them to, like, say, the strokes or like Nirvana or, like, those bands struck me as like, okay, this is like a sea change because these bands are replicable. Like, they have, they come from a certain type of scene and they, like, are in a certain lineage where you can see, you know, like, where you're going to get a. bunch of like strokes rip-off bands this band you use the term dead end to describe like what monskin are doing and like that's what i got when i listened to this new album you know it's like i don't i think that they can maybe remain popular but aside from like working with max martin which you know bands like maroon five or fallout boy do anyway i don't see how this you know becomes anything more than like an oddity in terms of like when we look at the two thousand and 20s in retrospect.

You know what I mean? Yeah, I just find it so reductive that this is how rock music gets defined. Because I personally think that you could define rock music as something much broader than it gets classified as in the discourse or even like in the music industry. You know, it's like if we're going to have a popular rock band, they have to, again, just be like the most cartoonish caricature version of what a rock band is. Like, that's the only thing that is able to break through. It'd be like if we expected rappers to dress like Run DMC in 2020.

You know, like, just this thing that was popular a long time ago, and that's the only thing that is allowed to be hip hop is, you know, wearing the gold chains and like the black clothes and kind of doing like the, you know. The kind of like, you know, call and response, like sort of like people make fun of the Beastie Boys for doing. But I mean. Right. Exactly. Like, if that was the thing.

But don't you prefer, like, at least the band trying to do this as opposed to, like, the way rock is most frequently talked about, where it's like, this band is, like, you mentioned it in, like, our least favorite, you know, least favorite words used to describe music. It's like it's meaningful. It's like revolutionary. It's, like, radically, it's, like, radically open to expressing our thoughts about, like, bodies and spaces. You know, like, I think. Yeah, like, it's a fun record. I mean, that's the, that's like the, the upside of this band and this album is that, you know, in my column, I think I said it was, like, difficult for me to hate and impossible for me to take seriously. You know, like, I don't hate this band.

And there's moments even where I like this record just because it is enjoyably dumb in a lot of places. Like the, like the single gossip, which is the song that Tom. Morillo is on, which of course Tom Morello is on a is in like a Rolling Stone video calling them like standard bearers of like the new generation of rock bands. Tom Morello like he's basically like Dave Grohl with harder left politics when it comes to like being on documentaries. Yeah, but even Grohl I don't think would do. I'm not seeing him talk about monoskin. He's more like a Billy Eilish. He's like he's got to talk about Billy Eilish being the new Nirvana or whatever.

I wonder what he has to say about the. Oh, I'm sure he's got like, oh yeah, boy, genius. They really do remind, you know, me and Chris and Kurt being in Aberdeen, you know. Like, I'm sure he's got things to say. Yeah, I'm sure. But, you know, again, I think for what it is, it's an enjoyable record. And I have to say, too, like that first time I heard Beggin, it did make me Shazam the song because it was something I just did not expect.

Like, there is something about this band that, because they're from Italy, there is like an uncanny valley quality to like the way they approach this kind of music, you know, where it's a rock band, but like it's a little off. And the offness of it is what makes it interesting. So in that respect, I kind of just appreciate that they were able to have this weird left field hit because they do still strike me as a band that even though they've had like multiple hits, they do seem like a, novelty band to me still. I guess I'll see in 10 years if Monoskin is headlining Coachella and they have all these hit records, then I'll eat my words. But I don't know.

There is a little like Red Said Fred feeling to this band that makes me wonder if they're going to be around in five years. Yeah, I mean, I was kind of hoping that it would sound a little more like the darkness. Like for all the talk about like rock being

back and they're like dangerous and they're like sex positive or whatever. Like I don't hear their music, like, hear their music and think, oh, yeah, these guys are, like, actually, like, living the stuff they say. It's like, when I think about, like, say, the darkness, at least they kind of reminded me musically of Def Leopard. And, boy, that that out's going to turn 20 this year. Maybe I need to pitch something.

But, like, Buck Cherry, I at least appreciate it because, like, they were absolutely that dumb. Like, they were just, like, kind of going for, like, a lobomized, like, Guns and Roses thing. And for what it's worth, like for the movies, the Buck Cherry Power Ballad, much better than the Monoskin power ballot time zone. Wow. I appreciate the Buck Cherry Deep Cut there. That was a very cool call there. Yeah, good song.

Let's transition here to the second band we're going to talk about, which is White Reaper. And it's an interesting contrast with Monoskin because White Reaper, first of all, they're a band from Louisville, started making records like in the early to mid-2010s, and they originated in the indie rock world. And at first they sounded like a band that was almost commenting on mainstream rock. Like they were this indie band that clearly loved, you know,

Thin Lizzie and Ted Nugent, but because they were not actually on a major label, it was like an element again of like metacominy, in the same way that there was with early hold steady records. You know, that they're making records that sound like Bruce Springsteen, but they're actually like this bar band from Brooklyn. And then White Reaper, they put out this record that we both love from 2017 called The World's Greatest American Rock Band.

It gets a lot of buzz. They get known as a really good live band. And then they get signed to Electra. And they put out their major label debut in 2019. And that record is called You Deser I. of love, and they have a hit single from that record called Might Be Right. They have a new record out today called Asking for a Ride. And I'd say, I'm a fan of this band.

You know, I still feel like that 2017 record is my favorite thing that they've done. But, you know, you were talking about how you're glad that a band like Monoskin exists, that they're competing on that level. And I feel the same way about White Reaper, even though, like, they're not nearly as streamed as Monoskin is. There's an element to this band where, like, they feel like a big cult band. In the same way, like, to me, the best comparison I would make for White Reaper is to Cheap Trick, which was another band that came out of the middle of the country that entered the major label system

and they had all these hits, but they were always able to retain this sort of, like, knowing sense of humor about what they did, that they could be an arena rock band, but on some level they were also not poking fun at it but giving it a somewhat subversive edge and White Reaper to me feels like that kind of band and the difference is that they're no longer the indie band

commenting on mainstream rock now they're a mainstream rock band making mainstream rock but I still feel like that edge is there and it's that edge that I think makes me like them even after they'd move on to a major label. Like, I like these last two records. I don't know how you feel about those.

Like, were you a fan of their 2019 record? Yeah, I mean, what surprised me about this band is when they first started out, like I just kind of figured they were like, you know, just some like garage rock band on some like, you know, let's play like burger record, like burgerrama type shit. But then I was really into the world's best American rock band. That's the album they released in 2017. Like, not coincidentally, I happened to be living in Kentucky at that time.

So, yeah, I saw the release show for that album in Louisville, which was fucking phenomenal. That was so much fun. And then, oddly enough, they were the, I saw them in early 2020 on, like, some random Wednesday night. And, like, I left after 30 minutes because, like, they went on at, like, 11.30. And that was, like, the last show I saw before the pandemic. It was just, like, this, like, I wanted, like, my last pre-year-old. pandemic show to be this huge event. No, it's just like some White Reaper show on a Wednesday. But, you know, when I heard that as far as like how I view them, like you mentioned cheap

trick, what they remind me of and I think the reason why they're a great pairing with monoskin on this episode is that in the same way that like you compared monoskin to like Aerosmith's Circa get a grip. This reminds me of the song, the bands that I would see on MTV alongside like them playing Alicia Silverstone videos 5 billion times a day, which is like these bands that were like on an indie rock label, like maybe in the late 80s, early 90s, and then

get promoted to a major label and then like end up with a hit similar to like say like meat puppets or something like that. Not that they sound like urge overkill. Yeah, like urge overkill or like I was like surprised they got like signed by a major label

because like who the like how is this going to work. And yet might be right actually became a hit. Like, I think it took a lot of Electra elbow grease to do so. But what was interesting to me about that album is that it didn't remind me

of, like, cheap tricks so much as, like, and again, I'm going to be very on brand here. It reminded me of, like, Hot Hot Heat's major label album or just, like, the album that, like, came after the indie rock peak. It just, it made me think of, like, a band that would have come at like post-ost-strokes OC music like um not exactly like french

kicks but like the sort of band that you would that they wore skinny jeans and they made like rock songs about girls and like you know they they showed up on maybe an episode of the OC and you know got like a six point two on pitchfork or something like that um I didn't love that album um but you know the new one I think it kind of gets back into more of like what they do really well. But, you know, as far as like meta commentary goes, I often, I think of them alongside like another polyvinyl band, Japan droids in that, you know, it's a lot more fun when they're like imagining being rock stars than it is when they actually get there. Like when they finally get access to like, you know, a major label producer or like major label finances or like they're

opening for like pearl jam and shit. it there's just like something that like seems a little less it's a little less fulfilling than when they were like imagining like trashing like hotel rooms while like just being this like Louisville band on polyvinyl like I I appreciate their existence I like this new record it's very fun and very like low stakes fun but um you know I think this is just kind of I mean you're a bit I feel like you're a bigger cheap trick expert than I am I don't know how you feel about the flame. That was the first chief trick song I heard. And I know that was like straight song doctor shit. Yeah, I mean, there's nothing like the flame on this record. And I like

the flame, by the way, because Robin Zander is a great singer and he sings the hell out of it. But I think with this new White Reaper record, they do strike a good balance between what they were before they signed to Elektra and what they were afterward. If you listen to, you deserve Love, that record was produced by Jay Joyce, who is a long tenured record producer. He's probably best known for being Eric Churches producer, which tells you how much in the zone of mainstream rock that record is. Although I think, and I revisited that album this morning, it actually sounds less slick than I remember it.

I think coming after the World's Greatest American Rock Band, it was a little jarring hearing that album. but now it feels more of like what they actually are than maybe it felt at the time. And this new record it does feel like a little grittier, I think, than the previous record.

And it rocks harder, if I can say that. Well, at the same time, having that kind of fun rock and roll vibe that like all White Reaper records have, you know, you talked about how you feel like they were more fun when they were

imagining being rock stars than maybe they are at this point. I mean, I would say that they're still not really... Oh, no, by no fucking stretch of the imagination. So they still have, again, that cult underdog band appeal that I think that they've always had. They're the kind of band that makes big sounding rock records

that used to be more popular than they are now. Like, if this band came out in the 90s, they would probably be more successful because the kind of kind of thing that they're doing, it's a traditional classicism type thing. It's a classic rock, really. And I know, and again, this is where I'm going to be

contradicting myself. I was criticizing Modiskin for being a caricature of a rock band. I don't think White Reaper is a caricature. They're actually, you know, I think they're partly winking at this kind of music. And at the same time, they're executing it about as well as you could hope for from a band in 2023. like the Lester Bangs, like

Fogg, or Lester Bangs, guess who, like Jim Morris is sort of dynamic, isn't it? Well, yeah, although he would defend Monashk Yeah. I think he would be like, you know, Lester Banks would say that Monoskin have the courage to be buffoons,

which makes them poetic. That's what he says about the guess. That's what Philips Seymour Hoffman as Lester Banks says about the guess who and almost famous. But anyway, yeah, this is a band I like. I cheer for them. I hope that they can stay in the system because because they have that major label budget, they can just make really beautiful

sounding rock records. And this record sounds great. You know, again, it sounds like a record like Celebration Rock with a bigger budget and like more of a sense of humor. Yeah. I also hope that like their success, like if they are successful, this will lead to like more bands taking similar approach where like they, you know, they put out a record on an indie label and then they get called up to a major and, you know, whether, like, even if they're not, like, the type of band who, like, you know, tops critics lists. I mean, you know, there was, like, that period of time where, you know, Columbia was signing,

like, Vampire Weekend or Atlantic signing War on Drugs or LCD sound system. Like, I'm hoping, like, one of the bands that might be in, like, our recommendation corner, which this album would have been if it was 2017, you know, they get a chance to get that major label Funny Money. Yep. and our people listen to our show and sign all these bands please we've now reached the part of our episode that we call a recommendation corner where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week Ian take it away all right so this album actually doesn't come out until Saturday the 28th which is a little

unusual I'm not aside from like a surprise drop I've never heard of such a thing but I believe I talked about this band on a 2021 episode of an indie cast it's a band called Paranul. Actually, it's not even really a band. It's a, I think it's just one person. It's a still anonymous Korean artist who operates, they've been called, they operate in a space that's either described as Shugay or Dream Pop or Fifth Wave Emo. And their new album is called After the Magic and it's a follow-up to see the next part of the dream, which came out in 2021. This one goes in directions that I am a personally huge fan of

such as early M83 or maybe Zwan or filters take a picture some of it also sounds like Dunyan playing Jimmy Eat World's Clarity I guess the fact that it is made by an anonymous artist makes it a lot easier to project a lot of comparisons onto it

but it's easily one of my favorite records of the year so far you know this and fireworks have really stood out for me. But just really wild to see an anonymous artist kind of functioning in 23, but like not like the weekend or not like, you know, burial. It's music that you would expect a band to make and like a band who's like on Twitter talking about like what baseball, what their fantasy baseball team is looking like. Yeah, I would say if like this basically sounds like 75% of the bands I mentioned on Recommendation Corner all in one. So, yeah, when this drops on Saturday, check it out. Love this record. Can't say enough good things about it. Yeah, the filter take a

picture reference. It has acoustic guitars and kind of like a synthesized like bongo on one of the songs. So yeah, that's where that comes from. You're selling me on this record. I'm very curious to hear it. An album I'm going to be talking about actually came out in December. but I just heard it this month and I've been listening to it a lot. It's called Anyhow, and it's by a guy named Leland Witty. You may know him as the multi-instrumentalist from the Canadian jazz funk band Bad Bad Not Good. I've been a fan of Bad Bad Not Good for a while, a casual fan, but really enjoy their records. I would say that like there's a big jam band constituency with that group too, but again they do also exist in the jazz sphere as well.

This solo record from Witty is definitely in that same lane as the Bad Bad Not Good records, although I would say there's a little bit more of like a psych pop vibe to the record. At times it made me think about air with like more saxophones on it. So it has that kind of, you know, slightly retro sound with just amazing instrumental tones like cool sounding drums and guitars and keyboards and all that stuff. stuff. And I've been just listening to this record a lot. Really good wintertime album. Really good. Just kind of like vibe type record. And yeah, I missed it in December, but better late than never and better late than never for all of you. So definitely check it out. Leland Witty. That's W-H-I-T-T-Y.

The record is called Anyhow. Anonymous Korean Shugays, Canadian Jazz. There's a little, there's some for everyone here in this recommendation quarter. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mixape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie. And I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.