Indiecast - The Super Bowl, (Fart), More Pitchfork Intrigue + A Possible 2000s Indie Folk Revival

Episode Date: February 9, 2024

Steven and Ian start today's episode with an in-depth critical analysis of one of the hottest songs in pop right now, Ice Spice's "Think U The Shit (Fart)." Probably too in-depth, really. But the song is truly a rich text. From there they do the inevitable Sportscast on this weekend's Super Bowl game. Anyone who gets their sports news from indie rock podcasts will want to hear Steven and Ian's predictions (6:51). They also wonder how the brewing Taylor Swift backlash (if such a thing exists) might karmically affect the outcome. In the fantasy draft update, Ian marvels at the performance of the new Brittany Howard solo album and Steven wonders whether the controversy over Mannequin Pussy's recent AI-assisted video will impact his team (15:02).Next is a conversation about 2000s era indie folk spurred by new music this week from The Decemberists and Iron And Wine (23:10). Are the guys yay or nay on these acts? They also talk about a recent article outlining the behind-the-scenes fallout from the Pitchfork layoffs (34:17). In the mailbag, Steven and Ian reflect on the breakups of two bands, Tokyo Police Club and Hot Hot Heat (40:59).In Recommendation Corner (47:56), Ian goes with Bill Ryder-Jones (formerly of The Coral) while Steven picks two records from David Nance and Mowed Sound and Ducks Ltd.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 175 and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indie Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to IndieCast. On the show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, we review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about the return of 2000s indie folk, more fallout from Pitchfork.com, and the most heartbreaking band breakups. My name is Stephen Hayden,

and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He loves the new Ice Spice song about farting. Ian Cohen, Ian How are you? I'd hate to be a fart. fart spliner here, but it's not a song actually about farting. See, the fart, not to get too goop on your grinch about it, but like the fart is a metaphor here, Stephen. Specifically, a metaphor taken from a meme featuring Mario smoking a joint. Like, I just love how our biggest female rappers, our biggest female pop rappers, I guess, like Ice Spice and Doja Cat are basically like

posters, like posters, first, rapper second. It's like Azealia Banks is their rock cam or KRS one. So, for those who don't know, the rapper Ice Spice has a new song out called Think You the Shit, and then the word fart is in parentheses. So think you the shit, fart. And this song is already a top 40 hit. I don't know if we should just expect this to enter the top 10, the top five, maybe even the top spot. I'm going to tread lightly here because I don't want to. to be one of those like boomer, Bill Marr type scolds who like looks at the pop charts and says,

oh my God, I can't believe this song is a hit. I'm really just here to make sure that our listeners know that there's a song called Think You the Shit, Fart. And yeah, I know it's a metaphor. And the metaphor as I follow it is that a fart in relation to shit is the fart is like a poser. and like the shit is like the real deal. So like if you're farting, you're just posturing, but if you're actually on the pot and you're following through, then that makes you a real person.

Am I breaking down the metaphor correctly here? Well, first off, you're correct in that the parenthetical is the best part of it. It's titled like a deaf tone song. But yeah, otherwise... Well, I didn't actually say that yet. I said that in the outline that the thing about this song title that I love is, you know, she could have put fart in the proper title,

but instead of that, she put it in parentheses after the proper title. And I actually think that that is a really nice grace note, because I just think that putting fart in parentheses is funnier. There's just something about the parentheses that's more comedic to me. So I appreciate that grace note. And as far as the metaphor goes I mean, we are saying in this song that farting is a form of posturing that should be looked down upon

whereas taking Let's just say defecation That is like the real admirable activity Is that a proper way to read this song? Yeah, if I was writing for slate.com or whatever I would say that like every generation gets the hollow back girl they deserve or something like that

if I wanted to get like real metaph-you-metaf-you-met-frofx. You know, this is a very, like, 2005 blog-spot, a trenchant analysis of think-you-the-shit, fart, action. Blogging is back. But let me ask you this. Would it be funnier or, like, more trenchant if the song was called fart, parenthetical, think-you-the-shit?

I don't think so. I mean, this is the word fart in a musical context. I think, I mean, it's not a very, like, nice sounding word to hear in a song. Like if you're just thinking about lyrics as part of the music and words are there because of how they sound more than what they mean, I think fart, you know, it doesn't really, it feels like a speed bump in a song.

You know, that's going to, it's like the record scratch part of a song, you know. So, I guess Ice Spice here could be, you could admire her for taking on this difficult challenge of can I even have a hit if I put like fart in the song? Like is this, you know, this is like a testament to her popularity, I think, that even if you put the word fart in a song, Ice Spice is going to have a top 40 hit. Yeah, I think that like fart is like one of those words. It just does not sing particularly well. The only acceptable use of that word is Eve fart low. otherwise it's

uh otherwise it's really tough to make it work but even if it isn't in the top ten I get the feeling that like Ice Vice and her fans and just the way the way things are is that she'll just probably put out a call on Twitter to like kind of juice the charts

and like have everyone like you know request the song or whatever so that like we can kind of like astro turf it as a number one hit like this stuff does happen like you can get like indie band saying hey buy our iTunes song on iTunes for 99 cents and be like in the top 10 of iTunes because nobody uses it.

But I think something like this is happening. Either way, I think pop music is in a pretty good place in 2024. If something this extremely weird is a bona fide pop hit. I will say too sincerely that I like the idea of a genuinely stupid pop song becoming successful versus the very self-serious. We're talking about trauma. type pop song that I feel like has been very common lately. You know, we're in that era where, you know, it feels like we're, you know, not to minimize these issues, they are important.

But swinging the pendulum back to just pure trash, I think it could be a positive development. So, Ice Spice, thank you. I just think about so many times in, like, school, like, when someone farted or shit their pants, that was traumatic, too. Like, what if it was, like, thank you the shit fart about a time? someone poop their pants in first grade and it's really about trauma. I think that would be a stressing angle too. I believe that's known as sharding.

So it's not farting. So maybe there needs to be a sharding trauma song. Maybe we should pivot out of this. Because people might be eating their breakfast while listening to indie cast. And to those people, I apologize. Let's do a quick sports cast here. We have the Super Bowl coming up this weekend. And I feel like the world is waiting for our Super Bowl picks.

at least the world that listens to indie rock podcast to get their sports news. So who are you picking? Niners or Chiefs this weekend? Well, I mean, so far in the playoffs, I've predicted the outcome that I would find most unpleasant personally. And I guess it hasn't steered me wrong so far. So I'm going to, like, actually backtrack on what I said last week and say that the Chiefs are going to win. And it is in one of those, like, really annoying ways that the Chiefs win where the score, is like 17 to 13, but somehow Travis Kelsey has like 12 catches on 150 yards and some waiver

wire receiver you've never heard of like gets a like a like a touchdown on like an option pitch. Yeah, I've are and I know we're going to talk a little bit about the Taylor album announcement, but like that alone has shifted the pendulum to me thinking the chiefs are going to win. Also, I predict the commercials are going to be absolutely fucking miserable. I hear there are two already, there are like two. commercials inspired by Flashdance, like Dante's Peak and what that other volcano movie. Like, we're getting that kind of deal going on. Hmm.

Yeah. I mean, if I'm following you, you think that the Chiefs winning is the less desirable outcome. And that's why you're going with the Chiefs. I'm speaking in the immediate sense because, like, I'm just, you know, last week I was annoyed by like the Taylor Swift, like conservative posters. Now I'm more annoyed by the Taylor Swift album announcement. So I'm kind of firing from the hip here. It could change by Saturday.

See, I am rooting for the Chiefs and I am picking the Chiefs. I think that they're going to win and I want them to win. And it has more to do with just my hatred of the 49ers. And look, I know sports cast has been rough writing lately for our San Francisco listeners. And I apologize. We love San Francisco as a city. And look, you should take my hatred. of your football team as a compliment because the Niners are like just all-time Packer

Killers, especially in the playoffs. I mean, I'm looking at like a quarter century of you guys just ruining my life in January and February. I mean, go back to 98. You got the Terrell Owens catch against, it's the last game, Mike Holmgren coach for the Packers. You ended the Holmgren era with just like this last second touch. You got Colin Kaepernick coming into Lambo and putting up like 200 yards rushing or whatever. You've got Jimmy Garapolo of all people coming into Lambo and beating us.

And then you got the game this year. So yeah, you've just tortured me for more than half my life. That's why I hate your team. It's a compliment. So please take it as a compliment. But yeah, I just think the Niners have looked super shaky the last two games. Packer should have beaten them and the line should have beaten them. I don't trust your defense and I don't trust Brock Small Hands Purdy.

I'm sorry. I think the Cinderella story ends against Patrick Mahomes. The only thing I think is going against the Chiefs is karma. And this is where I want to talk about Taylor Swift a little bit because I was listening to The Town. So Ringer podcast, one of my favorite podcasts. It's about the entertainment business and the host, Matthew Bellany, was talking this week on the show about how he went to the Grammys. He was in the room when Taylor Swift announced her new album,

the tortured poets department. And he said in the room that the reaction was negative, that people in the audience, they were chattering amongst themselves. They felt like, really, Taylor Swift? Like, you have to use this show as a platform to announce your next record when you're the person who needs this platform the least. even by Taylor Swift standards

it seemed very cold and calculating in a way that I think turned a lot of people off in the music business it seems I do think that this record which again is called the Tortured Poets Department which by the way you're putting out this record after winning album of the year at the Grammys for the fourth time

which nobody's ever done you top Stevie Wonder and Frank Sinatra and Paul Simon and now you're calling yourself a tortured poet I just think that the situation is ripe finally for at least some kind of Taylor Swift backlash this year. I think that she has provided the grist for people who have maybe been waiting for a while to vent about Taylor Swift and they didn't really have an opening. I think this record's going to be the opening. Now, it may be great, and I'll be wrong, but I don't know.

I think that there are storm clouds brewing here. I think that gravity exists even for pop stars. There's always some sort of course correction eventually. Michael Jackson had it. Bruce Springsteen in the Born in the USA era, which, by the way, I have a book about that coming out in May. There was a backlash against him. You can only get so big before people start to get sick of you.

And I feel like we're there with Taylor Swift. and maybe the karma from that somehow throws the chief side of whack and then the Niners win the game. People have asked, you know, is this where the backlash happens with Taylor Swift? And I do think that the vibe around this announcement is very different than that of folklore or midnight. I do get like a sense of exhaustion. I mean, at least amongst like the people I talk about with music online. The Taylor Swift fans I know in real life are just like super. We're stoked.

But I think what's interesting about the concept of a Taylor Swift backlash is that we've experienced it in the not too distant past. I mean, I think reputation or lover was seen as like, if we're thinking about the context of, you know, other big giant pop artists, maybe like Madonna, Circa, Erotica, where, you know, they're still famous, but they're not like quite as A-List as they used to be. But they, you know, they kind of wriggled their way out of that jam. What I think is funny about the album title, it's like, I do think that, I don't know,

Taylor Swift is probably trying to be kind of tongue in cheek in a way that doesn't really mesh with every other thing they do. I just think it's funny that like after trying to do like a national, the national sort of thing and now moving on to Alana Del Rey and or Father John Misty thing, whether she's kind of slowly drip running the 2010s of Indy and then three years later. She's going to kind of make her Alex G album or like all the songs are named like Leach, Jamie, Pencil. And it's all like, you know, altered acoustics and like voice and like voice manipulation. I don't think there's going to be a significant backlash to this.

I think critics might feel more emboldened to talk their shit. But I still think we're going to get like Rob Sheffield being the David Frick to her, you two. This might get four and a half stars. Yeah, I mean, she's going to get positive press. but I don't know. I just feel like... The vibe is shift, yeah. Yeah, I really feel like there's going to be...

And look, she's still going to be hugely popular. I'm not saying, like, oh, people are going to, like, not buy her records that go to her shows anymore. She's still going to be the biggest star in the world. I just think that, at least in the media, you're going to see more griping about her than you did in 2023,

which really isn't saying much, because really in 2023, you saw one of the all-time just media, genuflecting at the first. feet of a pop star type years. I mean, it was way over the top. So if we even get like a little bit of pushback in 2024, that would be an amazing development. Let's do a quick fantasy draft update here. You have a new Brittany Howard album out today, which is doing extremely well, I believe. What's that album called? Great question. This is your squad, man. It's called What Now? It's called What Now?

Okay, but like this record's doing really well, right? Yeah. Last I checked it had a 91. Wow. Wow. I mean, it's like I expected this out on to do well, but as we talked about last week, it's released date got kind of pushed back with like out much notice. But I'm expecting it to hold in the high 80s when it's all set and done.

I mean, that was like, yeah, I was very confident about this pick. Like this is overperforming, right? Like, did you think it would hit the 90s? maybe at the beginning, but like, I think it's going to, I think it's going to level out in the high 80s. Like, that was my, that was my expectation. And, you know, like once, you know, maybe like a pitchfork 8.0, no best new music hits or whatever, it'll, like, dial back down a bit. But I think that, yeah, this was a strong pick. You know, I'm not expecting it to hold at 91, but, yeah, it's like this is, I expect at least one or two Grammy nominations.

nations in 2025 for this one. Yeah, but that doesn't factor in for us. So just so we know, Grammys don't matter. It's just all Metacritic score. I'm intrigued by your jazz pick because VJ.I. or this record came out a few weeks ago. I did see Pitchfork reviewed it this week. It's got an 8.1.

I've listened to this record. It's a very lovely record. I enjoyed it. I'm going to be the rock critic who's listening to the crossover jazz record and liking it. I'll be that cliche here, but I do like the record. But it's still not a Metacritic. I mean, do you want to hold on to this or do you want to pick something else? I feel like we could give it one more week, but I also owe you because of the Faye Webster

exception that many in the Indycast community thought was questionable. You're wrong, but I understand you're questioning the decision. Do you want to pick something now or do you want to wait a week? I'm going to say wait a week because, you know, they're, they're, when you go on like Metacritic, like one or two weeks. weeks after an album's released it, you'll like, you'll like look at things like, I don't remember that one coming out. So I looked on album of the year, which does unweighted scores. And there are four reviews of it, all of which are very positive. But let's give it another week. And if that, you know,

if, if not, then, you know, maybe we can get a little subs. Or maybe I'll give you a list of three and you can pick the one that you want me to have. Well, we'll see. I mean, again, the Fay-Webster thing, I owe a favor, so I'll follow your lead on that. I do think that the only reason it's not on Metacritic is that whoever is the medicritic minion that controls that, they just haven't gotten around to VJIER yet. Once that gets on there, I think that will be a strong performer that's like in the mid-80s. So I think it's wise to wait and see because I think that is a strong performer. One thing I'm a little concerned about

Talk about my team here I've got Manicin Pussy Coming out in a few weeks That comes out on March 1st I believe And there was like a mini controversy this week online Because they put out a new music video And by the way Manicin Pussy

It's a rock band from Philadelphia A really good band. They're on Epitaph Records This new record coming out It's their first in five years And I've heard it I think it's a really good record. I think the singles have been really strong. But there was a mini controversy this week

because they put out a new music video for the song, Nothing Else. And I'm a little confused by what went on with this. But in the press release, they said that it was AI-assisted in the creation of the visuals. And if you watch the video, it's kind of weird animation going on.

I don't really love the video, to be honest. I mean, I like the song a lot, but the video to me is visually not very appealing, but apparently AI was used in some capacity to create these images, and there was blowback online about this, as there is about all things involving AI. And I think that the idea is that, you know, with AI, you're basically taking images from the past and recombulating them, and I think there's a legitimate concern about how this affects human art. And, you know, if you're just going to recycle images from the past, are you putting a human

artist who could have worked on this out of work? It's my understanding that a human artist did work on this video. So I don't really know, like, how AI came into effect. So to be totally honest, I'm like a little flummoxed. If I can use the word flummoxed here by this controversy, I get the principle of it, but I also don't really know exactly what went on here. Anyway, I'm a little concerned that this is going to affect my fantasy team. Like, I don't really care about humankind being destroyed by AI.

I just care about my fantasy team here. Because I feel like the people most likely to be upset about a mannequin pussy music video are also the people most likely to review this record. And are they going to, like, dock this record half a point or whatever because they're mad about this video? So, you know, again, I'm just a little worried about my team getting sandbag. begged here. You know, let's, let's focus on the real issues here. If I were you, I wouldn't be. I think the people who were mad about this video, and by the way,

great record. The song is my favorite on the album. It reminds me of smashing pumpkins, apples and oranges, which, you know, that's like very high praise. But, you know, the sort of people who are mad about this, which is, you know, you're typical anytime, like a band has used DIY in their like narrative and like they hire somebody else to do something. It's like, oh, ho ho, oh, like what's going on here? Um, I think AI was like utilized as like kind of an intentional ugliness like, you know, like if it was an Apex twin video. And, um, yeah, it's just, like, to me, it's, people see AI and they automatically like jump to, oh my God, this is going to like, you know, take a job away from, you know, somebody.

probably they would hire in their friend group or whatever. But like human hands went into it. I think it was just misinterpreted off the rip. And if we're going to talk about like unforced errors that completely sandbag and albums roll out, if like, you know, on a scale of like one to power bottom with like Royshund Murphy being like a nine, this is like a two tops. I can't imagine like anyone reviewing the album taking that into consideration because it's AI.

it's not necessarily a controversy surrounding any of the actions of the band itself. You know, like I think, you know, like what happened with SoulGlow once their basis got, like, left the band due to accusations. That album did just fine. So I think that's the best comparison. You're, you're, I would not worry about this at all, especially since people are excited about this album. If I lose by like two points in the fantasy draft, I'm going to blame this. Okay. So I'm just saying that right now.

I'm going to say I'm blaming the AI. music video controversy if I even remember it by that time, which I probably won't. But I'll be looking for excuses. Dayflowers fumbling on like the one yard line type

out of there. This is like the bad officiating. This is like, you know, Tony being in the neutral zone against the Bills and they were retracting the touchdown Chief Spills game.

Let's talk about 2000s indie folk. Fuck yeah. Because it's having a moment this week. We had announcements, which I think we're on the same day. Was it the same day? I think it was a day apart. It was a day apart.

First announcement was that Decembris are back with their first song in six years. It's called Burial Ground. It's actually a nice song. I enjoyed the song. It doesn't really sound like the stereotypical December song you have in your head. It sounds like a 60s, like Mersey Beat type song. You know, like one of the British invasion bands

writing like a jangly, mid-tempo type song. So I like that. And then, right around the same time this week, Iron and Wine, they're back with a new album, Lightverse. It's their first record

in seven years. So that's coming out later this year. So I figured this is a good opportunity to talk a little bit about 2000. Indie Folk, which like I said, it seems to be having a moment. And I also was wondering, like, yay or nay, what's yay or nay these bands? I don't think we've talked about either band. We wouldn't have had an excuse.

They haven't had any music since the show started. So Decembris, let's talk about them first. Yay or nay on Decembris, Ian. Yeah, it's so funny how, like, these bands, like, are seen as, like, 2000s indie folk. When back in, like, 2002 or four, they were, like, very different bands. one's like theatrical and like twee whereas iron and wine is like somebody who's got the huge beard

and like raw and earthy but I get how they're like kind of seen as the same thing Decemberus you mentioned how it was like kind of 60s British folk pop that's kind of the direction they've been going in for the past 10 or some odd years they just don't release albums as often

so it's kind of easy for to get me they're like a one album only band for me I love the crane wife do not listen into anything else. I just associate them so much with Portlandia and that kind of era. By the way, we have friends who live in Portland and their daughter goes to like one of those

outdoor schools and one of the, a band member of the Decembris is like on the school music department, which I think is just so extremely Portland. Yeah, Decembris, I would say like at this, in 2005 or, well, no, in 2007 I would have said, nay because they were so much you know more part of the narrative but at this point a band who's like that has that distinct

of a sensibility and they've done it for so long even if it's not one that I particularly care for like I don't want to totally listen to their music but I kind of respect what they do so yeah niac I think on the Decemberus

okay I'm gonna go straight yay on the Decemberus even though I haven't listened to in a really long time, probably 10 years. But I have fun memories of several of their records. I actually like castaways and cutouts, probably the most. But I think the King is Dead, which is like their sixth record, came out in 2011. I think that's a pretty strong record. It might have been 2010. Like Peter Buck plays on that record, and it sounds very R.E.M.ish. So I like that side of what they do. I feel like in the 2000s, the Decembrists were sort of like The band that people who didn't like indie rock would make fun of.

And they would say, oh, every indie rock band's like the Decembris. And they were an easy target. And like you, that makes me want to defend them because I think that was unfair. I actually think Colin Malloy is a good songwriter. And they're actually like a really good live band too. And that was like a big part of what they did. I just want to tell a quick story about one of the most controversial incidents for me when I was the music editor of the AV club.

There was a Decembris live album that came out. I think it was 2011. Or maybe it's 2012. I don't remember the name of it. But back in those days, I don't think people really do this anymore, but publicists would send out press releases with the track lists of albums.

And websites would do posts with the track list. Like we have the track list of the new animal collective record or whatever. And I hated that. I always thought, like, this is the most phony baloney news ever. You know, like, who cares what the track list is? Like, that's not news, especially if you haven't heard the record. Like, who cares what this song that I've never heard is called

and that it's the fifth track on the record? Anyway, my editor wanted me to do a newswire item on this new Live Decembris album. And I argued with him over email for three hours. about it. The most pointless argument ever. And I ended up writing the news brief anyway, because of course, he's my boss. I had to do it. And then when I had my performance review several months later, this was brought up. And it was like a big black mark on me. And I ended up leaving the AV club six months later. So the December has kind of brought me down in a way in one of my jobs. But I'm still going to yay them anyway.

Iron and wine, nay or yay for you. A weird blind spot for me. You know, I'm sort of a, like, look. I mean, like every other person who's now like 40-something indie male, I put naked as we came on a mix for a girlfriend in 2005. That one also had Block Party's blue light and stars, ageless beauty on there. Like, I was extremely indie basic back then. But, you know, I don't recall the first two.

albums, the ones that were most critically acclaimed. I really like the Shepard's Dog, but after that, they kind of won in the same as a December, like, as a Decembris where they kind of, they, they, they, they veer more towards like a more broad sort of folk pop idea, not as distinct as it used to be. Um, I'll like check in every now and again, but don't really care too much. That being said, I want to say nay for the sole, for like the sheer fact of their, uh, such great heights cover. I fucking hate that. I don't really, like, I like the Postal Service, such great heights, I don't really like that song that much. The cover is like, if you want to, if you want to, like, have the bullseye of taking aim at Garden State indie culture, like that would be it.

Like, I hate that song so fucking much. But otherwise, Iron Wine, putting that aside, I'm like generally, yay. Yeah, I'm going to go straight nay on Iron and Wine. And the thing I said about the DeSembris, how they were treated as a punching bag for people that wanted to complain about this kind of bookish, uptight, fokey type indie music that was popular in the 2000s. I think they should have been complaining about the Such Great Heights cover by Iron and Wine. I agree with you 100%.

I hate that cover. I actually liked the original song. on the Postal Service record. But yeah, I don't know. I tried with Iron and Wine a bunch of times, and it just bored me to tears, just could not get into it. He did a record with Calexico that I kind of like.

That's the most, that's the closest I came to getting into Iron and Wine, but it's got to be a no-for-meadog on Iron and Wine. I'm not in on them at all. But yeah, I don't know. It's interesting with this kind of music, because we talked about this a couple episodes ago with Noah Khan that there's this kind of music that people will say sometimes always having to come back when in reality I think this music always stays popular

it's just maybe not talked about all the time I think there's always an audience for this kind of music and Noah Khan's a little bit different that's like the Mumford and Sun's side which you're getting more into like 2010's era that's more of the like bootstomped like Lumineers, yeah. Yeah, that kind of stuff. Whereas Decembris and Iron and Wine and I don't know if we want to put Fleet Foxes in there or you could put Bonny Verre in there, at least like the first

record. It's a little mellower, I think, and it doesn't have quite the same, I think, feel. Like the Mumford's thing, I actually think is better in smaller doses, but more annoying in large doses. It's like way more formulaic, I think. But if you hear one song in a trailer, like a movie trailer, there is something sort of Pavlovian about that kind of sound that it just gets, your heart starts to soar and it's the feel good hit of the summer or whatever. But yeah, I don't know. I feel like this kind of music, and both of these bands are going on the

road. I'm sure they'll do very well on the road. The 48-year-old indie fan community, they're calling the babysitter right now, and they're saying, you free this summer? We're going to like book this several months in advance. It's going to be a big deal. Yeah, I think that I remember the iron with the iron and wine Andrew Bird Cotor and that was like, yeah, that was like a that was like a big moment for like 46 year old in the in the former pitchfork readers who like really love to put a bird on it sketch from Portlandia. I mean like the good. So that was, wait, that was a recent tour? A couple years ago, I think.

Okay. But yeah, I mean, this music, I don't, like, I think it's more coincidental that these two bands came back. I don't see, like, a real, you know, culture shifts. I do think it would be funny if this was the kind of music that ended up unseeding the extended Punisher era of indie rock. Like, this is the stuff that come back. it's like super twee and nerdy and like, you know, like pitchfork dies and all of a sudden old pitchfork comes back. I think that would be kind of the most hilarious outcome. So therefore, that's what I'm rooting for, but I don't think it's going to happen. I think it'll just be the same

audience and a couple of people on Twitter who can like convince some publication to let them like cook on the return of, I don't know, poetic indie folk. But otherwise I don't, I don't, With TikTok, so many trends can happen simultaneously. You can't say that there's a real zeitgeist. I don't know. Zach Brian posted a Bonnie Verre cover this week. Could be in the air. We'll see what happens.

Bonnie Vare was on Kanye albums. I don't see Colin Malloy license beat for like Twista or whatever. All right. Well, before we get to the mailbag, because we really need to do a mailbag this week, we've had like these two emails that we've booted several times, and we may only get to one.

But we have to get the one because I previewed it in our intro here. But I did want to talk to you quick about the story that was published this week on Semaphore about pitchfork. And the behind-the-scenes intrigue of Condé Nass's decision to fold pitchfork into GQ. I've been saying for a few weeks that I've been waiting for the Maxwell Tanny story about pitchfork. Maxwell Tanny is a reporter for Semaphore. he used to work for The Daily Beast, and he covers the media. And I was, I could feel it in my bones. I'm like, Tanny's on this.

Tanny's on the phones. He's working the email. He's getting some anonymous sources together to talk about what happened at Pitchfork. And he finally delivered the story this week. And the story itself, I mean, it's not all that surprising. I mean, I think Tanny basically confirmed what we all assumed, which was that Kandai Nest, never really understood what pitchfork was, didn't appreciate it. They looked at it as a site that wasn't making enough money,

even though it's one of the most well-trafficked sites, apparently in the Condé Nast stable. But there's one paragraph in this story that I wanted to talk to you about. And it's the paragraph where it's talking about the pitchfork festivals and how some at Kandai Nast were complaining that they weren't luxury enough, which is very funny to me. It's like, oh yeah, the backstage, you serve an ice cream. Why not, you know, caviar?

And, you know, we'll get, you know, we'll get Alec Baldwin to hang out with, you know, Lauren Michaels backstage. It'll be great. We'll get all the New York people at Pitchfork. But then there's a line here where, let's see, where is it? Okay, so this is like a, apparently a senior vice president in charge of events at Kandai Nass. Was looking at the festival in Chicago, and I'm reading here, he made the outlandish suggestion that Pitchfork could juice ticket sales by reuniting Oasis or the White Stripes. Now, a lot of people screenshot at this paragraph and they're like, what a buffoon this person is.

And this person clearly is a buffoon. but Ian is this person also awesome as well? Because look I'm not

depending Konday Nass in any way shape or form and I don't think that they would have been able to actually reunite Oasis or the White Stripes

I'm just saying that if I worked at Konday Nest I might have been this person I might have been like hey guys let's aim big here you know maybe instead of

booking I don't know the 1975 let's get Oasis back together, man. That'll be awesome. So, I don't know. I was asking the question here. Probably a buffoon, but is he actually a genius? I love how

and I think this story as a whole, I think there is this need for something a little more explosive and, you know, dishy about how this all went down. But this one more or less confirms that a, pitchfork is nowhere near as like conspiratorial

or calculated as people want to think they are and that Condé and ass is every bit as like true C-suite media stereotypes. I love this. I love the guy coming in it. Like, I can just imagine, he's got the blazer, like, with the sleeves rolled up. And my only issue is with the wording of that paragraph, because it suggests that the idea that Oasis or White Stripes could juice ticket sales is outlandish. Not so much that, like, pitchfork trying to make that happen is outlandish.

I mean, I know what they mean. I'm just a little, I was a little unnerved by the sentence construction, but I mean, right. So you're saying that it's not outlandish to think that an oasis reunion would juice sales because it obviously would. Yeah, seriously. What's outlandish is that pitchfork could reunite Oasis, which is obviously, yes, that is outlandish for sure. And the white stripes even more so. I think the white stripes isn't even more sort of unlikely reunion.

than Oasis is. You think? Absolutely. I don't think there's any way Meg White ever gets on a stage again. I just think she is happy, hopefully doing what she's doing, and, you know, she had,

you know, stage fright issues, and I just don't think she would ever do it. Whereas I think, I still think it's inevitable that Noel and Liam get back together, especially now that Noel's divorced. You know, he needs money. You know, it's going to happen.

It won't happen at the Pitchfork Festival, but it will happen somewhere. But white stripes, I don't think will ever happen. Yeah, I think with the, if the white stripes did happen, which they probably won't, I think it would be more for like a one-time pitchfork fest type affair. Whereas Oasis is going to do Glastonbury. It's going to do, you know, Coachella. Like, I mean, I just like that idea of like a kind, like Kande Nast, the guy, the people who like, you know, control the finances.

This is like, it's similar to when you listen to Philadelphia Sports Radio. people would call up. It's like, oh, yeah, what I think Nick Siriana needs to do is, uh, I think we need to trade for Patma Holmes and, uh, have Jalen Hutzby, like, just completely out of pocket shit, but like, Condé Nass are like the people who have access to the finances. Like, I'm just like wondering like where, like, whether it's just going to be like backdoor diplomacy or just rolling up with the Brinks truck to Meg White's house in, uh, Detroit or whatever. Yeah, it's not a question of money with her, though.

It's not, because they get offered, I'm sure, a ton of money every year. Oh, yeah. I just don't think it's going to happen. I will say, like, Kanday Nass, I'll take back every bad thing I said about you if you roll out the check and get away this back together. If you're the ones to do it, I'm like, okay, maybe this is where I forgive you guys for everything you've done. So we'll see what happens.

Fuck, man. Shoot for, like, the verve or, like, stereophonics or, like, embrace or asses. athlete, you know, let's remember some, you can't get Oasis, but like, you can get like kind of the, you know, the two, like 10 ones like make a 10 or something like that, you know? Well, let's get to our mailbag segment. Finally, we haven't done a mailbag in a while. And look, people, please keep writing us. I think we'll probably end up doing an all mailbag episode next week or the week after, because we're coming into a real dead zone in the year. We don't even have sports cast really after this week.

week. So please write us. We're at Indycastmailbag at gmail.com. We love to hear from you. Anyone who ever says that they love the show, that means a lot to us. Thank you so much for your support. Ian, you want to read this email? Yes, I do. I think this one's very much up my alleys. Hey, Stephen Ian, I love how the show has evolved. Keep up the great work. It's always a great week we listen. All right, cool. That was a good mailbag question. Let's move on. Thank you. My question. Thank you for the compliments. We left the compliment in this week. We'd like to hear the compliments be read out loud. In light of the recent band breakup news, Tokyo Police Club and Hot Hot Heat, again,

I'm hoping the two of you can give some insight into the business dynamics of band breakups. Like, what is the point of formally, quote, breaking up or going on, quote, hiatus? I feel like it just sort of implied their band like Moses Campbell. That is so, like, peak remembers some guys from the smell. Like shout to Michael, anyway, isn't ever going to make another album and they didn't have to announce anything. Does announcing a status change from a business perspective with records, management, companies, etc., move the needle? Do the bands have non-compete equivalent causes for members so it frees up the others to do tour solo work? I can assume personal relationships, visions need for real job, stomach aches from too much Taco Bell makes bands dissolve.

What does breaking up serve any purpose other than maintaining some old worn-out bastion of rock and roll tradition, then applies the natural progression of an aging indie rock band is to burn out and break up? Michael in Sacramento, light the beam. So this is an interesting question because as Michael is sort of hinting at here, I think it is unusual in modern times to announce a breakup. I think usually bands will use the hiatus word, which suggests that we're not going to be active for a while, but we will at some point in the future,

or they just don't say anything. And, you know, we've talked about this with Radiohead as an example that, like, they haven't really worked together in several years, but they've never made an announcement either way. They've never said we're on hiatus or that were broken up. It's just left open-ended. So it's like, well, maybe they'll make a record next year or maybe they'll make a record in 10 years or maybe they won't make a record at all. The one sort of like maybe financial incentive for announcing a breakup. And to be clear, I don't think that most bands are this calculating with it, but I, I don't think that most bands are this calculating with it. But I do think sometimes, if you say we broke up, that does allow you in 10 years to do the reunion tour.

And then maybe when you do the reunion tour, there's extra sort of urgency on the part of fans to go see you live. Whereas if a band just hasn't made a record in a while, and then they come back, maybe it doesn't seem as sexy when that happens. So again, I don't think most fans are that calculating, but I do think saying that, like, we're done does create a level of maybe sadness in a fan base and then to come back for the reunion. It just makes it seem a little extra special. Yeah, I think I'm just so astonished that Moses Campbell is this person's example for... What is Moses Campbell? I'll bite. I have no idea what that is. So, I mean, like, so they're a band from like the smell, like that scene in Los Angeles, I guess, like late aughts. And, I mean, these guys are so heads only that, like, the May she or Abe Vagoda are basically arcade fire by comparison.

Like, this is, like, they went on to make another band. I think it was called Moning. They put out a record on subpop. But, yeah. Okay, I know that band. Yeah, I think that they were post-Moses Campbell, of first. phrase I never fucking thought I'd say on any cast. But I love the question. But yeah, I think with specific interband dynamics with breakups or hiatuses, I mean, I do think it kind of, you know,

leaves open the possibility of like a 10-year reunion. I think the hotel year is a good example of that, which, you know, they obviously haven't made any new music since goodness in 2016, but that kind of mystical status allows them to do a 10-year tour for a home like no place. and yeah, it just kind of leaves the door open. But I think the bigger thing I want out of this is that for a lot of people, even like Indycast listeners, they probably think Hot Hot Heat and Tokyo Police Club are the same band, you know, whereas, I mean, look, hot hot heat, that's dance punk, that's OC, Tokyo Police Club is Blog Rock.

But I do think they could get together like combination pizza, Taco Bell style or like Tim, Tim Horton's Harvey's or whatever. Well, like, Hot Hot Hot Heat. They had a reunion and then they broke up before the reunion, right? They made one song. But they were going to go on tour, weren't they? Yeah. They didn't do the tour?

I did the bio for their reunion and I'd hate to think. Oh, man. I'd hate to think that like I got more, I got more out of their reunion than they did. But I mean, they think they read their bio and went, you know what? We don't need to add to this. This is perfect as it is. We don't want to ruin this bio by doing a reunion thing. So we'll just end it right now.

Yeah. I think with those sort of reunions, though, and I think this is kind of true for bands of that level where, you know, Dante de Caro, like he was in Wolf Parade for a while and, you know, one of the other guys was doing like real estate, like, you know, the actual job, not the band. And people of that level, it's sort of like they build lives and families and perhaps like jobs that can't really be put on hold anymore. They're probably not, you know, working at the coffee shop. or doing any of those other sort of service jobs where you can be like, hey, I'm going to go on tour for a month piece. So, yeah, I think with breakups more often than not are for the band itself, you know,

just to get some like real deal closure on it because when I talk to hot, hot heat, you know, they would talk about the offers that would come in and they'd turn them down. And it was more just to say like, hey, we're not taking offers right now. So I don't feel any certain type of way about it. as far as like bands choosing to say hiatus or it's more, I think it's more just kind of a selfish sort of thing

and then anything calculated in that event. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? All right, so this is going to, this recommendation corner choice is going to, you know, tie together a lot of Indycast threads. This is from a artist called Bill Ryder Jones. Their album is called Yucky Da.

I hope I pronounce that correctly. It's not spelled like that at all, but it's Welsh for Cheers. And I believe this is currently the highest album on Metacritic in 2024. It's got a 90 right now. And if you're not familiar with Bill Ryder Jones, you might be familiar with their former band. The Coral, whose self-titled album is one of the prime examples of Best Buy 699 core from 2002 and 2003. So this came out a few weeks ago, and he's put out five albums. And this one reminds me of the sort of thing I would check out from an NME review in 2000

that praised it as a singer-songwriter with orchestral flourishes. We loved orchestral flourishes back then. You know, there are kids' choirs, there are strings. And I would, I'm like, oh, this sounds cool. I'd have to check it out. But I'd have to wait six months or find it on Napser, because this is back when albums would come out in the UK and then like eight months later in the United States. But this kind of fits right between, say, I don't know,

badly drawn boy and the first Doves record, or, you know, Mercury, Rev, Circa, All Is Dream. It's a very pleasant record, but it's also very out of time. Just in the sense of having, like, you know, string sections, like kind of a beach boy's sort of hermetic influence to it. So, but people seem to like it. It's out on Domino, so this is not like some obscure thing, but I think this is like a UK-only sort of affair. If anything I just said sounds interesting to you.

Yeah, check it out. All right, so I'm going to talk about two records here. I'm going to cheat a little bit because I think I want to give them both a little bit of a boost. The first one is by a band called David Nance and Maud Sound, M-O-S-O-Sound, I should say, M-O-W-E-D. and the record is self-titled. And I've been a fan of Nance for about six or seven years. He's a Nebraska singer-songwriter. And I first heard about him because he would do these very unconventional album-length covers

of classic rock records. Like he did a cover of Beatles for Sale. He did a cover of like Lou Reed's Berlin. He did a record, he did a cover of the Doug Somm band self-title record, like with the, you know, cartoon cover. and he did covers, but they were like radically rearranged, and they're very interesting to listen to. And he's also done a lot of work with the Philadelphia singer-songwriter Rosalie,

who has a record coming out next month that I'm a big fan of, we'll be talking about then. And his band is sort of acted as like her crazy horse, like her backing band, lots of gnarly, thorny guitar jams backing up this, like, beautiful voice. And he's like a really great singer-songwriter, too. And he like really leans into that like kind of ditch era, Neil Young type sound, like late nights, evoking like a 3 a.m. type vibe, loose arrangements sounds really cool, a lot of atmosphere. So his record's really cool.

I also want to talk about this band from Toronto called Ducks Limited. And it's spelled Dux L-T-D. I believe it's pronounced Dux-L-L-L-L-L-D, if I'm incorrect. I'm sorry. Sorry to the ducks. But this band, look, they are a... classic flying nun New Zealand

guitar pop type band and if you know what that is you will love this band it's very jangly guitars very sort of zippy rhythms kind of like a melancholy vibe permeating throughout the songs but look

a lot of bands do this kind of thing and Ducks Limited they're not reinventing the wheel by any means but they are really good at it they execute that type of music extremely well and this is the kind of record we're in the middle of winter

but it's like unseasonably warm so it kind of feels like spring and this is like a really good springtime type record so again it's called Harms Way the band is Ducks Limited and of course David Nance that self-title record

that's out today as well they're both really good check them out I think back in the day there was a band called Ambulance LTD and I think it was Ambulance Limited so I'm going to go with that

yeah you know look bands put in parentheses if we have to say this out loud or if you just want us to do the LTD. We don't know this for a fact, but yeah, I think it's Ducks Limited. Anyway, thank you for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news reviews

and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.