Indiecast - The War On Drugs and 2021's Return Of Heartland Rock, Plus: Kanye West + Music Documentaries

Episode Date: July 23, 2021

With new music incoming from The War On Drugs, The Killers, and Coldplay, this episode of Indiecast asks the question we’ve all been thinking: is heartland rock stronger than ever or drawing its last breath? The staying power of the aforementioned acts is undeniable, but at the same time there aren’t many up and coming acts who are creating music that feels similar, sonically or thematically. It’s unclear whether there is even room in the heartland rock space for any acts that are still emerging, including some of our favorite underrated artists like like Wild Pink or Strand Of Oaks.In this week’s Recommendation Corner, Ian has been vibing with Johnny Football Hero’s Complacency EP, while Steve is once again plugging HBO’s forthcoming Woodstock ’99 documentary for which he served as a consulting producer.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's indie mixtape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Indicast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we discuss how 2021 is shaping up to be a very big year for Heartland Rock. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host, Ian Cohen. Ian, who are you? As usual, just thinking about our intern's workload.

You know, this year they've already tacked. the St. Vincent beat, exhausted the Lana Del Rey beat. Yes. Yes. They are hard at work on the Sindry beat for people who listened to us last week. Everyone knows that's Bjork's in-cell son. We reward

close listening here at Indycast. Can we get the intern on top of the future Lord singles as well? Because I feel like at this rate, like she's obviously being very relaxed

I feel like in her latest songs. I feel like the next single was probably gonna be called something like Netflix and Chill. Yeah, man. It's the anthem of a pandemic living that we need in these times where we want to be more spontaneous than ever.

But yeah. Or she's like a really rich person who doesn't have much to say. I mean, that's my sense so far. I don't know. I could be wrong. This Lord Rollout is looking a little shaky thing. Yeah, we're gonna discuss a couple

couple in the next few weeks. We've got some really shaky album rollouts, but, you know, when it comes to like shaky, unpredictable album rollouts, like our intern is just sitting there wondering, like, okay, I work for two music writers who have been in this game for over 15 years or 20 years maybe, and how come there's just nothing brewing? Like, why are they not telling me to follow every single bit of Kanye West News regarding this album that's apparently dropping today? Yeah, Donda, Donda, yes. Coming out today, supposedly. Yeah, you know, look, like you said, we've both have been around for a long time.

So we're of the generation that, you know, really, I would say for a good 10 years, from like mid-Ot's to like the mid-2010s, Kanye was like must see, must listen to entertainment, whether it was his albums or his interviews, whatever he did, whether you loved or hated, It was very, I mean, it was compelling. I mean, he was a fascinating person. I still think he's the greatest rock star, pop star, whatever you want to call it, of the early 21st century. You know, and maybe I'm saying that because, like, I revisited Yeezus recently. And that's a, that album holds up for me.

That's a great record. I love that era of him. But, yeah, like, not caring about Kanye West stuff, because I do not care about this album, really at all. It's still new to me. It feels a little weird. Yeah. Like with Kanye West albums, it's like you just, it's almost like Eric Alper type crowdsourcing. You rank, you rank Kanye albums.

Like, you put something other than the first two at the top and, you know, you just let the conversation go from there. Like, it's more like you're just sort of giving back to the community. You're paying it for just to make sure the discourse continues to happen. But we haven't done that. Well, I mean, there was a period, again, you know, that, like, 04 to like 2000, I guess, college drop out. Up until life of Pablo. Yeah, exactly. College dropped out to life of Pablo, like that about, it's about a 10 year span, 10, 11, 12 years.

And it was like, well, he was putting out, like, it was a thing, like, you wanted to rank his albums because his newest album could potentially be your number one. I mean, your list was constantly changing. And now, you know, it's been. I guess there's somebody out there who might put yay at the top, some lunatic who would be ranking albums that would want to do that. But I think for the most part, you know, the list seems pretty set in stone. I was thinking, too, you know, if you look at like the young generation of critics who are coming up now, I mean, do they have any reference point for this?

I feel like, you know, if you're 24, does Kanye have that kind of relevance? or do you hear the conversation that we're having as a 24-year-old and just think, what are they talking about? Like, this is such old head, you know, BS. Like, I don't care about this at all. I imagine this is what it was like if in the 90s when, if you were to hear, like, 240-something music critics discussing, like, Prince when he was just about to drop, like, crystal ball or, like, or something. Or, like, I can't even remember his album titles, but maybe we were, like, deep into that era. But you know what? It's like cycle of life, man.

Like eventually the people, whoever is like the 2023 equivalent of Indycast, like, they'll be talking about like ranking Tyler the Creator albums when like Tyler the Creator starts making like acoustic singer-songwriter type thing. That's true. It'll have, if you're listening to Indycast right now and like you're feeling young and, you know, in your prime, you're going to get old and washed. It'll happen to you. That's our episode.

Thanks a lot. for listening. Well, I was writing something, and I realized, you know, in reference to Tau the creator, that that famous appearance that he made on Jimmy Fallon, you know, like, that was his big kind of mainstream coming out party. Like, do you remember that? It was like an iconic performance. That is 10 years old as of this year. You know, that was 2011. That's when Fallon was still on late night, like before he was on the Tonight Show. So even TOW the creator is he, he's got to be 30, I would think, by now, right? He's probably 29, 30.

He's been in the game for a long. Our internees, our internees to get on now. I think he was 19 when he was on Fallon, which would make him about, you know, maybe he hasn't turned 29 yet. Maybe he's like 28, 29 in that range. So he's still pretty young, but he's, like, been in the game for a long time. Time flies. And speaking of time flying, this is a little far afield from our show,

but can I do a shout-out, Milwaukee Bucks, first title? in 50 years, half a century, time flying. Time was very slow in Wisconsin, waiting for this to happen. I'm a Wisconsin native, of course, so I'm excited about this, although I have to keep it real and just say that I was a bandwagon jumper in the playoffs. I did not follow the season that closely, but I did watch every playoff game, and I always cheer for Wisconsin. I like to see the real America defeat the coastal elites. I'm joking, of course. I mean, Phoenix is not a coastal elite. Yeah, but they beat Atlanta, which is a city that always is seen as a prime NBA free agent destination because of the nightlife, the cultural impact of it. There is Miami. They beat in the first round because of, once again, the nightlife and the no state tax. And then they beat Brooklyn, which I'm sure was satisfying for you on many, many levels. Absolutely, absolutely.

And, you know, Brooklyn is known, of course, as a fashion of indie rock, but I just want to give a shout out. Or was. I don't even know anymore. Well, they're not anymore. And they probably won't be again, because it's too expensive for bands to live there. They have to do a serious, like, real estate crash in New York City for Indy Rock to return to that city. It'll be like a shit hole in the 80s again. And then, you know, we're going to get, like, the new CBGB. That's right.

That's right. But I just want to do a quick shout out to all the Milwaukee bands that I could remember this morning. So shout out to the Promise Ring, of course. And Cap and Jazz. Shout out Violin Femmes. Shout out the Bodine. shout out Dikruzen The Guffs

Dussaboli Shout out to jail Shout out to collections of colonies of bees Shout out to field report And the frogs And of course The Great Call Me Lightning If they're

These are all Milwaukee These are all Milwaukee bands by the way I'm not just doing Wisconsin bands These are Milwaukee specific bands I lived in Milwaukee for eight years So I still have a lot of love for the city But yeah you're talking about the nightlife You could go to the Cactus Club

back in the day and see, call me lightning. That was a pretty fun time. Jail. That's with two Ls, everyone. That is like elite remembering some guys. I profiled jail for Milwaukee Magazine many, many years ago. So shout out to Vinnie Kircher, lead singer of jail. I hope he's doing well. So, yeah, it's good to feel good about something because are you,

Are you feeling? Dark clouds emerging. Yeah. The future of live music again suddenly seems cloudy. We were like celebrating, returning to shows. And now we've got the Delta variant thing coming in. Yeah. And you get some articles coming out about like how in the Netherlands there was a festival that caused like a COVID outbreak. Florida is, you know, doing what Florida does and just seeing a surge, which, you know,

puts fest, you know, one of my favorite festivals in question. And, you know, it's just like, did we get our hopes up? Like, do we want to, I just, I want, I'm like dying to get back to normal, but I'm also like, we can't do another lockdown. Or maybe people won't do another lockdown. I don't think people will, right? I mean, it seems like there's not an appetite for that again. Yeah.

I don't know, especially if you're vaccinated. Are you going to want to go into lockdown? I don't know. I mean, we may not have a choice. Who knows? But, you know, can we just make a public service announcement for anyone out there who hasn't gotten vaccinated yet? Like, get the vaccine.

Come on. Just do it. Yes. So we can all hang out. We're taking a bold stand here. Well, it is a bold stand. There's like half of the country hasn't been vaccinated yet. That's why we're dealing with this stuff. So I don't know if, I don't know what the breakdown is in the Indycast community as far as

getting vaccinated, but I just want to say, just do it. It's okay. You're going to feel fine afterward, and you're going to help other people. You're not just helping yourself. So quick PSA there. Yeah. You brought up something that I had not realized a potential controversy with the Delta variant that's related to our show.

Yeah. Yeah, there's a band called Delta Sleep with an album coming out in Locke October, and Black Keys had their album like Delta Cream. Yeah. I'm just thinking back to like how after 9-11, a lot, like, if there was like anything that potentially referenced like bombings or like death, like you had to change it, like you couldn't play Blow Up the Outside World by Sound Guard. That's almost like five years old at the time. I also remember that, you know, Bleed American Jimmy Eat World's breakthrough 2001 album was also

called Jimmy Eat World after that. And by the way, that album turns 20 years. years old on, I believe this Saturday. Oh, man. I am, like, if you want to hear me, like, really get into my feelings and just talk about feeling washed, like, I will not write a single word. I will not participate in the 20th anniversary cottage industry. Like, I mean, I was asked, and I, like, I actually said this, y'all. Like, I think I've written a bit too much about Jimmy Heat World recently.

Oh, man. I feel like, I feel like there's going to be an outcry. in the emo community, that there's not an Ian Cohen retrospective essay on Bleed American. I'm shocked. I thought I would have already seen this this week. And now you're telling me that not only did you not write one, you had an opportunity to write one,

and you said no. I feel, look, I respect you for saying, I've written maybe too much about this band. I want to, like, just cool it a little bit. But I also wonder if you are derelict in your duty here. and not writing, you know, just purple prose about how great Bleed American is. Although this isn't your favorite Jimmy World Record, right? I mean, is this...

It is not my favorite Jimmy Eat World Record. Clarity is like my favorite album of all time. So it can only... I mean, is Bleed American number two then? Oh, yeah, it's got to be number two. I mean, like, it's like, I want to say it's like an okay computer kit A dynamic, even though they're like completely opposite as far as like their Sonic. styles, you know.

But yeah, bleed Americans number two. Sometimes, like, if I'm feeling a little bit frisky, I might say I like futures more than Bleed American now. What I find so interesting is that, like, you know, this is, yeah, for anyone who follows me on Twitter or just like kind of knows me as a person, like, this is my favorite band ever. And I don't think we've, like, ever talked about Jimmy World on this pot. So I have no idea what your take is on them.

I imagine this one is. you know, BLEAD America would be your favorite. A, because it's got like a Davey Von Boland feature on a praise course, which was like, you know, the NBA finals encapsulated with like we're Phoenix. They're from Mesa, Arizona, Jimmy World. But they played the halftime show for the Phoenix Suns during the playoffs twice. And when they stopped, well, they started losing. But, you know, and also there's like a song, like authority song, which is named after a John Cougar Malencare song. So I would imagine.

This one, if there was a hide-in-core Jimmy Eat World album, this one would be it. Yeah, I mean, for all those reasons you said, as well as I think it has obviously the biggest singles of their career and rightfully so. I mean, to me, I don't know where sweetness lands in the Jimmy Eat World Song power rankings, but it's the best. Okay, I was going to say, for me, that's like, hands down my favorite Jimmy Eat World song. I was actually listening to it before this show, like before we started recording. And I was like, damn, this is a great song. So, I mean, I don't go deep on Jimmy Eat World. I know Bleed American quite well, and I know clarity.

And other than that, I haven't really dug too deep in. Not because I don't care. I just, you know, I haven't had time to do that. But I plan to do that at some point. But yeah, Bleed American, I think, really great record. And I remember buying it when it came out is my first Jimmy Eat World record. I wasn't really familiar with their previous stuff. I think I bought it because of sweetness.

I don't think, I think, well, sweetness came out after the middle, didn't it? Was the middle the first single? No, the first single was the title, Trableed American. And I remember when I burned the CD from the radio station I worked at, I got a speeding ticket on my way home the first time I listened to it in my car. Now, mind you, it was like in a college. town so I was probably going like 35 into 20 mile per hour zone.

But Bleed American was first. And I don't know if I would be as hyped on this album if the middle was the first single. Right. But yeah, middle was the second one. Sweetness was the third one. That was the one where they hired the video director who did Cole Place Trouble and

made almost the same exact video. It's really good video though. And then praise chorus was the fourth one. That's like the one where like the video budget runs out and you just do a live clip. So that is the singles history of Bleed America. Well, and how amazing is it that Jimmy World had the budget on that record to go four singles deep? I mean, it's also because the record's really great that they could go that day.

Yeah. But it was more because it was more because it was successful. I mean, the famous story goes that, you know, Capital dropped them after clarity. But, like, they weren't as, like, broken destitute as people wanted to make them out to me. They were still doing well on tour. and they did like kind of a old, like a primordial Kickstarter type thing where they, you know, pooled their tour money and so forth to record the record on their own dime and they shopped it around like every single, like every single major label was bidding on that record. And they ended up with DreamWorks. So, yeah, I mean, when they got there, they knew it was a hit.

I like this because you didn't write the think piece, but like I feel like you're giving me your think piece. nuggets right here. Like, you're giving me some background on the record, which, you know, like, okay, I was just like, someone should be, if there's a stenographer out there in Indycast world, just type out what Ian was saying, and that'll be your Jimmy World Bleed American think piece that he didn't give you. Okay, I hope, I hope people out there let Ian know how disappointed they are, that he didn't write the Bleed American piece. This stuff is all out there, though. Like, It was in the ringer interview I did, the Up Rocks, Jimmy Eat World Top 30. They're still looking for the synthesis, Ian.

The people, they want you to synthesize this into a... I mean, there's still time. I mean, after we record this, you could knock out probably 3,000 words on this album in like 20 minutes. I have no doubt. So we'll see what happens. Maybe by the time we post this, you'll have written a Bleed American piece that... We are good at actualizing things into this one.

world. Can we, we should probably do a quick shout out to, there's a box set coming out. I think, is it out today? The, the, the anniversary of box set for tiny music songs from the Vatican gift shop, Stone Temple Pilots. And I wrote about this record earlier this year. And it's my favorite record, I think, by Stone Temple Pilots. I go back and forth between this and purple. Maybe is purple the clarity and is tiny music the bleed American? Actually, purple would be the bleed American and maybe core is the clarity because purple had all those hits. Maybe tiny music is the futures of Stozy. Yeah, I think, yeah, the chronology isn't exact.

But yeah, I would say that like, I don't know, maybe clarity is like tiny music because that's like their quote, weird one. But it's there. Yeah, I mean. It's not their, is clarity, is that their second record or is it the first record? Yes, it is. Okay. It's technically their third if you include their self-titled album, Jimmy World, which is out of print. But, uh, look at you.

That, that was out of print for a reason. The guy, it's like back when they were like a pop punk band, like no effects or lagwagon and Okay. So clarity is the bends then. And the, so-titled is Pablo Honey. That's the... No, that is static prevails. Static prevails is the day.

debut. That's like the real debut. Oh, right. Okay. Capital. Oh, God. We need a Jimmy U. World. The people demand it. We're getting to real. We were talking about STP for a quick moment. Yes, we are. And so, yeah, I tend to lean toward tiny music

with STP just because it was I guess I guess it's their weird record. It doesn't seem that weird when you listen to it, but it was a little more experimental. It was like less successful. And I mean, there's incredible songs on it.

There's like fewer hits, but like there's so many catchy should be hits, I think, on that record. But, yeah, I mean, like I said, I wrote about it earlier this year. So please Google that, find it on Uprocks. I did do, I did step up and write the anniversary think piece for that. But like, how do you feel like? Where do you stand? I actually listened to Purple the other day. And, you know, like, it's, it, it reminds me of being a music consumer in 1993 or four when it's like, oh, man, this is like my favorite album in the year.

Also, like, three of these songs kind of suck. But, you know, it holds up pretty well. I mean, like, some of it's, you know, obviously dated. Like, whenever I hear the intro of Loungefly, I think of MTV News and Kurt Loder. Wow. Like, like a supremely washed moment right there. But what interests me about the discussion surrounding Stone Temple Pilots now, like, are they properly rated now?

Because for so long you would have to say, no, go back and listen to Tiny Music. It's actually like really interesting. And they were kind of a glam band, but they were, you know, but they were like kind of fronting as a grunge band. I think at this point, like, whenever you're talking about Stone Temple Pilots, you have to say like they were, you know, overlooked to the point where like they can't really be underrated anymore, if that's. That makes sense?

Yeah, I mean, my sense of this is always a little skewed because in the worlds that you and I populate, I feel like it is properly rated, but I feel like the arbiter for this for me will be when Pitchfork does the Sunday review on Tiny Music, and they give it, and they give it an 8.1. At least give it an 8.1. I have a feeling that they would give it like a 7.7 or something. get me into the eight range and I'll feel happy. Dude, have you pitched it yet? Maybe I'm doing that right now. Although I just wrote this huge thing on it, so maybe I'm not the guy.

Maybe you're the one. You're the one talent. Yeah, I don't know. You're like, well, you've already written like five billion words about Jimmy Eat World. What's 3,000 more? So, you know what? Take your own advice here.

Well, I just wrote about this specific album. You haven't written specifically about Bleed American, have you? I might have. I don't know. Anyway, well, let's get to our mailbag segment. And thank you all again for writing. It's always great to hear from our listeners. If you want to hit us up, we're at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com.

This letter today comes from Kyle. He's in London. London, England. Yes. I love it when international people chime in. It's nice to hear about the global reach of the Indycast community. Kyle says, really excited for the Woodstock-99 documentary to come out soon. And that's today, by the way, on HBO and HBO Max.

This year has seen a couple of great music docs, including Edgar writes film about Sparks and Questlove's Summer of Soul documentary. Just wanted to know what other music documentaries both you and Ian would be interested in seeing, either about specific bands or a period in music history. And he says, i.e. birth of Midwest East, Emo, that's clearly directed at you. People just want to keep giving you work today, Ian. Like, I'm trying to give you work.

This guy's trying to give you work. Anyway, he says, thanks a lot, and you fucking broke my sit tar, you motherfucker. Good reference to dig. One of the great music documentaries of the last 20 years. And that's from Kyle. So, have you seen the Sparks movie? I haven't seen that yet. I really want to.

No, but, you know, I haven't yet. But, you know, whenever I, look, man, like, whenever I hear sparks, like, I do, I just think of, like, the alcoholic energy drink of 2009. And actually, like, that would be a pretty cool time to, like, document. Well, how about a sparks documentary about the alcoholic beverage? I'd be into a movie on that. I definitely drank a lot of sparks back in the day. Wasn't it earlier than 09?

I feel like that was more early aughts. Like mid-auts. Okay, that was, that was like early aughts. Like, 2003, 2004, like, that was big. I remember in, like, the DC bars where, like, people would also wear, like, trucker hats and that was kind of fresh. Oh, yeah. But it's peak.

Its zenith was Pitchfork Fest 2008, where in the VIP section, they had free sparks. As people who saw me there were, you know, still remind me to this day. But enough about that. enough about my dark, dark, dark past. As far as, like, you know, Kyle's question, like, oh, man, I'm getting, like, pigeonholed as, like, an emo guy, man. Like, I need to, like, just do a, like, a huge pivot this year into, like, I don't know, like, jazz or, like, you know, Egghead Electronica.

Like, I'm going to be a floating points guy for the rest of the year. You know, I have the glasses for it. Yeah, like, so you're just feeling this now, though? I mean, I feel like it's not a pigeonhole. This is something that you're... Known for this is like a trademark. This is like an area of expertise that you've cultivated for the better part of a decade. Well, would I be a real emo guy if I wasn't complaining about like, you know, people who listen to emo?

I mean, like, that's, that's, I'm just following in the line of every single band who's ever excelled in this field. But, you know, Kyle, like, he brought up, you know, birth of Midwest emo is like something worth documenting. Like, look, I've seen the, you know, the, you know, the. archived YouTube clips, like bands like braid playing Fireside Bowl or whatever. And, you know, I don't think I need to see a documentary on that. Like, I know the stories. It would just be a lot of semi-filled basements, guys in cargo shorts and, like, you know, ringer T-shirts talking about like how they, you know, no one came to the show, really,

and we were always broke. And then we broke up because no one came to our show and we were always broke. And then, you know, that would be it. It would be fun to watch because I like the bands. But, like, I know those stories. So the ones that, like, Steve and I talked in a previous episode about how much we love interviewing, like, B and C list guys from, like, the alt rock boom of the mid-90s. You know, they just have great stories of, like, having one hit, but, like, having that result in two million albums being sold. And that's the stuff I want to see covered.

Like, give me, like, Madonna introducing candleboxes, quote, my grunge band when she signed a Maverick. Like, I want to know, like, what Seven Mary three felt like at the top of their game. The video treatments for, like, the songs from 16 Stone. This era of just, like, I could watch, like, a 10 part, like, Ken Burns needs to get on that right there. It's like, jazz, civil war, buzzbin. Like, that's what I need to see. Just because, like, it's such a, it's part, it's, I just think a lot of people who are in that realm would have, like, a sense of humor about it or even better have no sense of humor about it and then you would see you know the guy like

you know the guy from sponge whose name was viny dembrowski like like i don't know that guy's name uh just being like yeah man with wax ecstatic we really pushed the envelope that's what i want to yeah yeah i always thought it would be a good our band could be your life type book to oh yeah to focus on that generation the like the the post grunge the the the bands that were dismissed as van wagon jumpers in their day. Because I'm with you. I find that fascinating. And like you said,

they had legitimate success for, you know, many years and then just totally fell off the face of the planet after that. Yeah, I'm with you. I want to see that movie. I'm going to, the movie I'd want to make,

this is actually a dream project of mine for like several years. Like, I want to make, or I want to be involved in a documentary, Warren Zeevan, who I think is one of these characters in rock history that is sort of well known because of one song, Werewolves of London, but for the most part, people don't know anything about him. And, you know, there's so many documentaries now, and a lot of them are made about really popular artists who actually aren't that interesting, like, in terms of

their backstory. Like, I watched the Coldplay documentary. actually thought that movie was pretty good. And I like cold play. But like, you know, there's not a whole lot of controversy in their past or anything. Warren's Yvonne, tons of controversy. He has an amazing book about him called I'll Sleep When I'm Dead that's actually written by his ex-wife. Okay. And he asked her to do it. And that just gives you an idea. Like there's no, uh, it's just like an unsparing book about his past. You've got drugs. You have self-destruction. You have redemption. You have a tragic ending that also turns, somewhat redemptive.

And you have like amazing people that he intersected with, like Martin Scorsese, Bruce Springsteen, David Letterman, Neil Young, basically all of the like surviving old, cool guys would be interviewed for this movie. I think it could be really good. So that's the movie I'd want to see. I feel like that will be done eventually by somebody because it has to be.

So I don't know. I'm putting that out in the world, hoping that there's like a producer with a ton of money who will dump it on me to help make that movie. And also dump it on Ian because I also want to see this mid-90s post-grunge movie, the MTV Buzzbin. Call it Buzzbin. That should be the title, Buzzbin. Yeah.

There you go. Let's get to the meat of our episode. And this is a topic that's really close to my heart, which is Heartland Rock. because we've seen in the past few weeks a like just a bumper crop of records coming out later this year that are in the Heartland Rock territory and I have to start with the war on drugs being at top of that list.

Their record was announced earlier this week. It's called I Don't Live Here Anymore and it comes out October 29th. We were talking about Jimmy Eat World before, being your favorite band. Warren Drugs are my favorite band of, I guess, contemporary band right now. But we also, you know, there was like a Killer's record that's been announced recently. There's like a Coldplay record, which I can't believe we haven't talked about that yet. The track list with the emojis on it, which...

This band just gives and gives, man. Absolutely. And then, you know, there's also a new Strand of Oaks record that's fan to the podcast. Tim Schoelwalter. And that's a really good record, too. I've been listening to that a lot lately. But I'm curious to get your take on The War on Drugs single, Living Proof.

I should say, I've heard this album. I was able to get an early preview. So I've heard this record many, many times, and shockingly, I really love it, and I've listened to it a ton. And I'm sure I'll talk about the album more in depth later on. But I'm curious. I think we'll dedicate an episode to that.

Yeah, but I'm curious about how you feel about the lead single Living Proof, because it is a little more subdued than I think people might have expected for a first single. Yeah, and I think that's like, I like that approach. I think I've seen bands do that sort of thing more often, particularly with, like, bands that are known for, like, a certain style of music. You know, had they released, you know, another song, like say pain or which by the way both a jimmy world and a war on drugs song oh really good songs yeah what record is the jimmy world uh pain on futures oh okay that was the lead singer that was the lead

single of futures oh very cool um yes and i think it was also in tony hawk skater one of those soundtracks so very different sort of vibes um yeah this the war war on drugs it's like look i i'm I'm a big fan of the band. It's funny. When I listened to this single on Spotify recently, like I didn't change the music after it ended. And it went back to one of the songs from Wagon Wheel Blues, like just kind of auto play.

And it really just showed the distance this band has come since 2008. And, you know, when I first heard this song, I appreciate the fact that it didn't sound. like other war on drug songs. You know, that's a style that has really become just kind of like a primary color of, you know, indie rock or like kind of indie-leaning popular rock. And the one thing that's like kind of prevented war on drugs from being a band that I revere to the degree that you do is that like the lyrics like are, the lyrics are there.

I don't think they're good. I don't think they're bad. They're pretty good. But like, I don't know them. a lot. Like, I really don't know a heck of a lot about, like, Adam beyond what they allow in interviews. It's like, oh, he's, you know, dating, you know, one of the characters from Breaking Bad. And, you know, he's, uh, you know, he was locked up in his apartment with like, you know, 80 synthesizers. But this one, it reminds me more of, and I know this is going to be a

endorsement for you. It sounds like those latter-day Wilco albums that are just like really, really quietly produced and have, you know, the tasteful guitar solo at the end and really focused on the lyrics. And, you know, like, by the end of it, I'm like, oh, I remember the melody. Great. I can't wait to hear what's next. But, you know, it's, it's, I'm just glad that, like, there's a positive reception for war on drugs. There isn't, like, this kind of cynicism that I'd expect, you know, kind of given the way they were, they've been viewed or treated in 2017. So, So, and I think that's kind of a, that's like kind of a, something that's true with all these bands we're discussing. There seems to be a general excitement for them.

Yeah, I mean, I'm with you on your observation about the lyrics. I feel this, I feel basically the same that in the scope of their music, like the lyrics are definitely, you know, fourth or fifth or sixth down the list in terms of things I care about in the song. And I don't know this for a fact, but like my sense is that. Adam probably feels the same way. I think he's much more into the music and also the production of the records. And he's been working with Sean Everett for the last couple records. And I think just working in like world-class studios and like laboring over, you know, different mixes and like how to put these things together. It seems like that's where he really lives and breeds. As far as the single, I mean, I did see like a little bit of chatter online from people

who felt like, I don't know if I feel this or this feels like a little underwhelming, just because it wasn't the roundhouse kick of a first single that a song like Red Eyes is or a song like Up All Night, you know, that are much grabier. And it has been four years since the last one on drugs record. So like when you have a longer gap, I think there is maybe more of an expectation that I need to be blown away immediately when I hear the new single. Having heard the whole record, I would say that the single, Living Proof,

is representative of the album thematically. Like, it has a lot of the themes of the record, which I think it's about sort of picking yourself off the mat after a difficult period of time, which is obviously very resonant at the moment now. But in terms of the music, I mean, I'd say that there's probably five or six songs, at least on the record, that to me are probably more in the vein of like a War on Drugs song that we would all know and love and would knock people's faces off. Like when they get released, like just like the big anthemic catchy type song.

So I have a feeling that one of those songs is probably coming fairly soon after this and people will hear that. but you know you make you said something earlier that i thought was interesting when you were talking about how that war on drugs sound it's become almost like this boilerplate reference point in indie rock what's your take on this band's influence i mean because i feel like it applies to some of these other bands that we've talked about that have records coming out in the fall yeah i mean the thing about like um you know a thing about like war on drugs is that like you would think that like this this band wouldn't be so influential or ripped off just kind of given the, you know, the, the trending away from like, you know, arena, heartland rock.

But do you remember, like, I don't know if this band is from Wisconsin? I feel like they could be. Do you remember Caveman? Yeah. Of course you do. Yeah, absolutely. And in 2016, like, they're the kind of band who, like, any given year, they're just going to sound like, you know, what was what was cool two years prior.

like a classic CMJ showcase type band. I remember, I reviewed one of their albums in 2016. It was like when Volkswagen tried to make a beach house song because they didn't want to pay beach house. This is like, yeah, this is like, we are now in an era of like where it's going to be incredibly easy and also popular to just like straight rip off war on drugs, particularly like the red eye sound where you got like that kind of militant, steady drumbeat. and like the waves of reverb and yeah I think like the gift and the curse of you know war on I think specifically lost in the dream is that it's a really easy sound to like just dial up and rip off right yeah I mean you know we talked about the killers they have yeah of course and their last album imploding the mirage I mean that was a total war on drugs homage I mean there's tons of songs on that

record that, like you said, seem to be channeling red eyes, which worked for them. I like that record. That record actually did pretty well, it seems like. People seem to enjoy it. And I think it works for them. Another band that we like a lot, Wild Pink, also seems like they've been clued in, although they have more of a lyrical focus than the war on drugs do. They're not quite as anthemic, but they have more of an introspect.

storytelling aspect to the songs. I thought it was interesting. I mean, I don't know if you care about this at all, but the John Mayer record that came out last week. I'm surprised we didn't talk about it. Well, I'm bringing it up right now. Sobrock, which I wrote about. I enjoy that album.

I've come around on Mayer in general, digging into his past records. I thought it was interesting that people compared Sabrock to the War on Drugs, which to me seems like a little too far. The distinction I would make is that, like, the War on Drugs, when you listen to them, they evoke, I think, the spirit of a lot of that 80s rock. But if you were to play Lost in the Dream next to Brothers and Arms,

the Dire Strait record, I think it's pretty clear, like what, that Lost in the Dream doesn't really sound like brothers and arms. I mean, there's like a postmodern quality, I think, to what the War and Drugs do, where yeah, they're drawing on Springsteen and Dire Straits and the Boys of Summer, all those signifiers. But, you know, Adam also loves suicide and the Jesus and Mary chain and like a lot of that post-punk and indie rock type stuff.

So it's like 80s put through that kind of filter. Whereas sob rock, it's just a straight up replication of 80s music. You got to respect the nice price sticker on the front. Yeah. And I think John Mayer, it works for him, because he's always been, in my mind, an 80s rocker. Like, he is more like Dyer Straits or Phil Collins than, you know, his contemporaries that he came up with in the aughts.

Like, I would like get him more to that 80 stuff than to Coldplay. And, you know, like the other, like, big pop rock acts that started around 2000. Yeah, I think John Mayer's just been a guy. Like, he's an example of how, if you, like, you stick around for long enough and your popular for long enough. Eventually people were like, I don't know, man. Like, it's just, maybe he's, like, better than we thought he is. Uh, the arc of history always bends towards pop, you know, like, I mean, we had like the Billy Joel Renaissance, uh, happening. It's, John Mayer is just like a guy, like, even if, like, he, you don't like his music. And yes, I, like, I, like, I hope I

depart from this mortal coil having never heard your body as a Wonderland again. But, you know what? I have to, like, in some way, respect the hustle. Well, and, you know, what I find interesting about Mayor is that he has this pop career, and when mainstream music publications talk about him, they focus on the pop stuff. But for the past six years, he's played guitar in Deaden Company. Yeah. So he has this, like, significant jam band following now.

I saw a video clip last week of him I think he was playing one of his songs but in the intro he did a tease to the riff from Stash which is a fish song And he did it really well So and of course You know on Jam Band Twitter

People were eating that up They loved that So he has that going And I think that's like an underrated aspect At least in the pop press about Like how he's been able to stick around because Dead & Co, I mean, they play stadiums. I mean, they're one of the biggest live bands in the world,

and he's the guitar player, and he's been able to, I think, build this other audience outside of the pop audience that has really sustained him in this part of his career. Yeah, throw a bone to the jam band community and, like, your second wife. Exactly. They are a loyal bunch.

I mean, like... Well, just like the emo community. Again, like, this, I'm bringing the jam and the emo community together because I think it's a similar thing. It's like... Well, I would say that if any of those emo bands were to like throw a bone to the jam band community, they might find themselves playing, you know, more to more than like 50 people. Well, what I would say like for you, part of your love of the 1975 is the fact that Maddie Healy

throws the bone to the emo community every now and then. Oh, yeah. And if he didn't do that, maybe you'd be more inclined to look at him as just like another you know pretty boy you know empty suit you know but you feel like that probably gives him some depth or it makes them more likable to you on some

well or just like a really or just like a really you know a savvy guy you know like I do wonder about that like if bands like really big bands like are told by their handlers like look man just like say this and you'll have like this segment of the critical thing you don't have to mean it just say it And it's the smallest thing, but they're going to, like, you will get, like, die hearts for life.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't think he's lying, Maddie Healy. No, he means it, dude. Like, he really means it. And John Mayer, I don't think, is lying either. No, not at all. But there is also a savviness to doing that.

That it is, it's like being a politician. I'll visit this constituency and make sure that they vote for me. You know, like I'll just throw them a bone here. Even if it's not the main thing that I care about, you know, throw them a bone, they'll be happy. And then I can, you know, consolidate my power, you know. I think you can be sincere and also calculating at the same time. I think that's an aspect of that. We kind of got far afield from Heartland Rock here.

I don't know, do we want to talk about the Coldplay record at all? Are we going to wait until that comes out? Yeah, this is going to be another Ken Burns type undertaking. But, you know, like, this new, the thing is about, like, their first single, we got to mention higher power because I thought, and, like, when I heard that kind of, like, you know, that up-tempo, like, mechanized drumbeat, it's like, okay, are they finally making their war on drugs like a song? But in reality, it's like, oh, this is a blinding lights rip off.

And I think it's interesting, like, how kind of similar, like, you could totally hear the war on drugs making a song like the weekend's blinding. lights, right? Oh, that's a great point. That never occurred to me quite like that, but yeah, I think they could totally do that. I suspect that if they were going to do that, they would have already done it. You know, I feel like the opportunity probably would have been there for them by now, or like for Adam to do like a Kevin Parker thing where he's appearing as a guest on other people's records or helping them. Oh, yeah. You know, but my sense is that

he's not interested in that, you know. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, maybe he is and just hasn't done it yet, but I feel like if he were to do it, he would have done it by now because I think the opportunities were there for him, but it seems like he's pretty focused on his own thing. Can I just say to, like, you know, because I knew we were going to talk

about Coldplay in this episode. And I think I like higher power more than you, by the way. I think it's a good single. I'm actually into this new album that Coldplay is doing. I feel like, I guess my hope is that it's a return of like the Milo-Zilito type

guys for that. Now we're talking. It seems, I'm getting some Milo-Zilito vibes from some of the things they're doing lately. But, you know, I went on Spotify and I was, you know, looking at their streaming numbers. And I don't know, like,

I was, I mean, I, I know that Coldplay is a popular band, obviously. but I was still like pretty shocked by how well they do on Spotify. I mean, they have two songs over a billion streams.

The scientist is over a billion in that son that Chris Martin did with the chain smokers. Something just like this is almost at 1.6 billion. So that's going to hit 2 billion. Like, you know, before long, I'm sure. But, you know, even, you know,

like yellow has almost 900 million. Yeah. Fiva LeVita is over, is over 900 million. Like, yeah. They're going to have multiple. Kind of like a, clock is kind of a deep cut compared to some of these.

Well, yeah, it's like, Clox has about 400 million. And then him for the weekend has 732 million. I don't know what that song sounds like. I'm sure I've heard that song, but I don't know that song. Or Sky Full of Stars has... Okay, I know that one.

I know that one. That has 765 million streams. Actually, and that's from ghost stories. That's like the one interesting part of the documentary because like the rest of the guys in Coldplay are like, yeah, this kind of sucks, but like Chris needs to make this album right now. So, you know, we're going to, we're going to help him out here. Yeah, I'm just, I mean, after looking at these numbers, I feel like there should be no question that Coldplay is the biggest band of the last 20 years. And not only are the biggest band, but they're like maybe the biggest pop act. I mean, who is doing those kind of numbers? I mean, Drake is doing those kind of numbers. I don't know. You look at everyday life.

And I mean, these are just like pedestrian, like 22, 14 million. That's true. That's, I mean, which the Grammy nominated Everyday Life, by the way, the album of the year nominated Everyday Life, which I don't think I've heard. I mean, it's a double album. I'm looking at this track list. I don't know this record at all. I did not listen. I kind of want to go back and check it out.

Yeah, I mean, certainly that record didn't do well, but, man, I don't know. I was blown away by these numbers. I just think we need to see, the way that we judge this, like, I would just love to see what a live, like, Cole Play playing Coachella would look like now. You know, that's, we've, like, completely lost that metric of assessing popularity. But, I mean, hey, maybe this is the album that reacquaints Coleplay with Middle America, you know? I mean, you don't think that they would kill at Coachella. Oh, no, they would. Totally, totally.

I mean, they're, I mean, they would do that, I guess, if they wanted to, but they're, they're a stadium band. So, I mean, they're not going to play festivals unless they think it's. you know, good for their exposure or something. I mean, I wonder like when the last time they did Glastonbury was. And I'll put the intern on that. Yeah. I'm curious to see that. Glastonbury, you should think about booking Coleplay.

I think that would be a smart move. We've now reached a part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? All right, after an entire episode of complaining about being pigeonhole as an emo guy, uh, those days are over. recommend this EP that I found recently on one of the message boards that I frequent, even though those message boards contain the worst shit I see written about me on the internet.

It's a Philadelphia emo band called Johnny Football Hero. That is, yes, it's an emo band because it's got football in the name, but also a lyrical reference to Nata Serfs popular. They put out an EP called Complacency. Now, this is a band that's got like, I think, I don't know, less than five. 500 followers on Twitter. This is like real. You got to search for this, but this just shows you how quickly things evolve in

emo. Like they're like, yeah, we really wanted to sound like dog leg. We really thought that album was awesome. But they're also bringing references like, you know, the Trail of Dead, particularly with the drumming and bands like Dance, Gavin Dance, these like kind of metalcore pop bands that I have no awareness of. But they put it all together on, it's, it's an EP, but it's 25 minutes. I can't think if you've liked any kind of emo from the past 20, like not 20, like, yeah, 20,

but mostly like the past 10 or five years, you're going to find something to love here. There's like group chance, but also the singer can kind of do the Gerard Way, Patrick Stump belting thing. There's, you know, really quiet mineral-type ballads. It reminds me a little bit of like Glass Beach in terms of how comprehensive it is. and I feel like I'm nowhere near getting to the bottom of, you know, what this EP can do. But Johnny Football Hero, Complacency EP, you'll know, like, within the first two minutes if you're into it. And God knows I am, so. Well, Ian was very nice, and he's giving some ups to a up-and-coming indie band.

I'm going to be totally self-interested with my recommendation and be a total promotional whore. And shout out, Woodstock 99. Peace, Love and Rage. A documentary airing on HBO and HBO Max starting tonight. I am in the movie. I am one of the consulting producers. It's the story of the

infamous 1999 music festival that featured a whole lot of new metal bands and a small handful of female singer-songwriters and totally went off the rails resulting in riots, sexual assaults, all types

of violence, just mayhem, all over the place. I'm proud of the movie. I think it turned out well. I would love for you all to see it and let me know what you think. Again, that's called Woodstock 99. Peace Love and Rage, directed by Garrett Price. Check it out on HBO and HBO Max this weekend or whenever you find time to watch it.

I think that about does it for this episode of Indycast. Thank you all for listening. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.