Indiecast - The War On Drugs, Plus: Lana Del Rey, Spoon, And Pronunciation Backlash

Episode Date: October 29, 2021

The first new album from The War On Drugs in four years has finally arrived. Steve considers The War On Drugs his favorite band of the last decade, while Ian considers them in a similar lane as Tame Impala or Beach house, where the music is enjoyable but does little more for him than establish “vibe.” Musically, I Don’t Live Here Anymore is a refinement of the craft the band explored on 2017’s A Deeper Understanding, which itself was a refinement of 2014’s Lost In The Dream. Will this finally be the record that wins Ian over?In this week’s Recommendation Corner, Ian is plugging the new book Sellout, as well as Another Kill For The Highlight Reel, the new record from New Jersey band Save Face, which sounds like a lot of the bands covered in the book Sellout. Steve, on the other hand, wants to spread the good word about Myriam Gendron’s new album Ma Délire that was released earlier this month, a collection of reimagined folk standards that gives the songs new life.Submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail] Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's indie mixtape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to IndyCast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about the new album by The War on Drugs. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host, a man who on Halloween hashes out bodies along with trends. Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? Yeah, tired, Monster Mash, wired, Halloween hash. Yeah, I'm looking ahead to Like we do every time we record I have to look ahead to when people are actually going to listen to this episode And when our West Coast contingent is You know checking out the new episode of Indycast Odds are I'm going to be at work in costume

Every year the dietary team has a theme Last year we did holidays I was Hanukkah Probably a little along the nose Wait, wait. How do you dress up as Hanukkah? I wore a big dreidel outfit that I returned to Amazon the next day. I feel like having a holidays theme is just begging people to devolve into stereotypes that might prove offensive to people. Yeah, I think we really tried to, well, this year, there was a decision to make it rock stars.

And so one person, like my entire team is like women except for myself. And like one person brought up she wanted to be kid rock. And then we just kind of talk about, yeah, maybe that's not good idea. Then someone brought up like, you know, David Bowie or John Lennon, like all these like legendary rock stars and like the degrees of cancellation that they're all subject to right now. Now it's for me what I'm going to be showing up to my job, which is, you know, through the state of California. I'm not going to spoil it, but let's just say that right now,

sitting on my shelf, are temporary face tattoos and something called an adult men's music cloud rapper wig and beard set. I'm not going to give it away. I'm not, and I'll just point out that when they said rock star, I'm like, well, who has a song called Rockstar?

So, yeah, I'm going to be taking all my sessions on Friday, this outfit. Hopefully I pull it off. I had to actually buy a shirt as well. Like this is, I mean, Steve, like, the fact that you don't like go to an office and like have these sort of, like, do you dress up for Halloween anymore? Well, I have children. I know, but still. That has reinvigorated the love of Halloween because you take the kids out for trick-or-treating and you wear a costume yourself. I often wear the same costume. We have a pirate costume at our house that I've worn a few times. I'll probably wear that. We also just have a collection of wigs. So you could just slap on a wig

and I'm basically just a Midwestern burnout looking person, which is not too far from what I actually am. I was going to say, I mean, were you tempted at all to go as like turnstile singer Brendan Yates? I got to hit the gym if I'm doing that, man. Well, I'm just saying, like, do the people in your office, Are they aware that you are, to a degree, a rock star yourself in the music criticism world? Like this. Okay. So this is like an alter ego that they're totally unaware of. You're like Clark Kent in the office.

I don't hide it. I just... They don't know about Superman. I don't hide it. I just think that like to discuss it would... It's like speaking a different sort of language. It's like finding out that I have like, I don't know, an entirely different family a la that guy in succession, like dollar bill or something like that.

It's just like there's... There's no real way to kind of understand, like, the extent to which I discuss, which I, you know, review albums and hash out trends of the minutiae of, like, indie rock Twitter. I think you just mixed billions and the secession references because you said billions, but then you, I'm sorry, you said secession, but then you said dollar bill. Oh, yeah. Who's a character on billions, which I wonder, that seemed, not to get too far off course here, but that seems like. Intentional. There needs to be some sort of meeting of the world's there. It's like BC and Marvel or something.

If you could mix that together. Holy shit. I wonder if that will ever happen. This is like the best idea we've ever come up with. Eric Bogosian is on both shows. So he is the, he's like the nexus point between the billions and the secession universes. Two very different characters.

Very different characters. Yeah. On, who does he play on billions? I'm trying to remember his character. He's like the guy who went to jail, like Spartan knives, and now on succession, he's a fake Bernie Sanders. Exactly. Showing the Bogosian range. He could go both.

And uncut gems. This guy is like an indie cast, like, uh, low-key Hall of Fame character actor. Love Bogosian. Um, I feel like we need to do some housekeeping from last week's episode. Last week, we had to record a few days early because I went, uh, to South Dakota, which was an incredible trip, a very weird trip to take. I actually thought of you on this trip, Ian, because while driving through the middle of South Dakota, which is some of the most desolate parts of the country, I would imagine, I found a weirdly

Ian Cohen-esque, like, Alt Rock Radio Station that played Owl City, and then they played Give Yourself a Tribe by 1975. And a bunch of other sort of emo-leaning rock songs. And I almost thought I was hallucinating. I was imagining you programming a radio station as I was driving

through the Black Hills and the Badlands and all this mind-bending terrain. But anyway, we were unsure if Laudel Ray's record Blue Bannisters was going to drop last week. It did come out on Friday. It sure did.

It sure did. You know, I always feel like I don't want to put too much weight on my own social media feed as far as that being reality but am I wrong I feel like that record came and went already and it's almost as if

it didn't come out at all I mean has that record had any impact are people excited about that album? Well I think that you're wise in saying that our social medias are not like a greater indication of the world at large

I think that Lana Nell-Rae this year has been a phenomenal example of tweeting through it. Like the backlash was coming and she just kind of put her head down, put out some records that do what she does quite well, but don't drum up the kind of excitement that, you know, Norman fucking Rockwell or anything before it did. And I would, I'm going to say like if we're talking about like the off-track betting that we sometimes refer to here, Like, by low on Lana Del Rey, I do think that she will be making quite a few appearances on year ends. I do think that by the time her next album comes up and drums up a little bit more hype, people have gotten the backlash out of the way. Look, it's a decent album. It's pretty good.

Which album do you think will be on the year end? She's put out two albums this year. She's going Robert Pollard in 2021. I would say that like chemtrails over the country club is the better one. but I just think in general people, like, I think we've seen the, the pendulum shift from like, yeah, fuck this, we're backlashing Lana Del Rey to, you know what? Maybe we're taking her for granted a little, so just a very, just a very vertiginous experience with her. Look, it happened. The Lana Del Rey supply chain is totally happening.

My kitchen table got delayed three months, but the Lana Del Rey, Lana, that's going to happen. happen on time. So you think that there's like a huge shipping container out at sea somewhere of Lana Del Rey hype that just hasn't arrived yet to the discourse and in you know early January it's just going to show up on our doorstep? Yeah, it's like how my kitchen table chairs arrived like way ahead of schedule but the actual kitchen table got delayed like three months. So now I'm just going to sit for like the the in this metaphor which is like completely on point like this is an incredible metaphor. The hype is the kitchen table. Okay.

All right. Well, we'll see. I mean, that would actually be perfect because in early January, we're going to have nothing to talk about. Yeah, we got fucking nothing, dude. So if that shipping container with all the Lando Ray hype inside of it, if it can just arrive on our doorstep on, say, January 5th or something, that would actually be perfect timing. So let's hope that happens.

Otherwise, it remains to be seen. Otherwise, it's an entire month of Indie Rock, of Indie Cast Hall of Fame. Oh, yeah. That's not the worst thing. We can do that. We're actually a little bit behind on that. So we can, we'll induct tons of stuff. We'll induct like the second hours record at that time.

Like we'll be so desperate. We'll just be going, you know, several albums deep into the hours disguised. Yeah, I only go so far as their 2002 album precious, which was, I believe, produced by Ethan John. So. Oh, man. Look at you. I'm ready. Look at you.

He's got the Fenfatal cup. Oh, man. Oh, again, we got to hold on to that gold. Don't want to spend the gold. Because we're in rich times right now. We have a lot of things to talk about. We have a war on drugs record. This is my Christmas today.

So let's hold off on the hours deep cuts. I also have to acknowledge I got roasted on Twitter because of my pronunciation, and I'm going to say it correctly now, of doxins. We had some dachshund discourse in our last episode. I was butchering the name of that dog. And we were also arguing about whether it was sausage dog or weaner dog. I think you can go either way on that. But definitely I was wrong in my pronunciation of dachshund.

So I just want to clarify that I acknowledge my error and I pledge to do better in the future. Yeah. Also, oh, go ahead. With that. You want to take a shot at me too about this? Yeah, man. It's like the saying goes, like the bigger. the lie, the easier it is to believe. And like, your confidence in pronouncing Doxon that way,

like, it really led me to question, like, am I the one who's wrong here? Like, I've been saying this my entire life, but, like, this is so radically different and he's so, like, assured. Like, it really, it really turned my world upside down until, you know, the rest of the world came to realize that I was correct. Yeah, I mean, that's my strategy with all things. Just act like I know what I'm doing, even though when it's clear that I'm not. But, you know, I'm big enough to acknowledge my dog-related errors on this podcast. So I just, again, I wanted to make clear to our listeners because of the sacred trust that we have with Indycast Nation that I acknowledge my mistake. If you thought that I was saying it correctly, do not imitate me. I was

wrong. Follow Ian's lead on all things docksus. Also, we have some breaking news. It won't be so breaking by the time this post, but right before we started recording on Thursday morning, there was a new Spoon album announced. It's called Lucifer on the Sofa. And there's a single called The Hardest Cut. And what can we say about it? It sounds very spoony. If you, if you like Spoon, this sounds like Spoon. Is there anything else to say about it? I mean, we'll probably talk about this album, I think it comes out in February. It comes out in February. We are lining up for a lot of big, like, you know,

like foundational indie bands, but coming back in 2020. Yeah, it's going to be good. I think, you know, it looks like kids are going to be vaccinated here at the end of the year. That'll get people out, like any lingering people that have little kids

that don't want to go to indoor shows, which I'm in that camp right now. The decks are going to be cleared now for that. It seems like we're going to be full speed ahead in 2022. Yeah, We are going to be really hitting our stride when the Beach House and Big Thief and Spoon albums come out. Oh, man.

An Animal Collective. It's going to be good. One thing that blew up last week, this happened after we recorded. Of course. Was John Hinkley, who, for those who don't remember or know, he was the man who attempted to assassinate Ronald Reagan, I believe in 1981. That was correct, yeah. So we're at the 40th anniversary of the assassination attempt.

I don't know. We got to get like Chris DeVille of Stereo Gum to write a 40th anniversary piece on John Hinckley's assassination attempt. DeVille is the master of anniversary pieces. He is. And John Hinckley now, he's great at it. He does, he writes them for Stereogum. He does such a good job. Chris DeVille, a friend of the podcast.

But John Hinkley now is an indie rock figure in a way because he's been tweeting. about like tweeted about neutral milk hotel he was tweeting about other musical preferences that are sort of cool and people were getting into it there they're there Hinkley was blown up on Twitter last year I mean I think with the indie rock crowd like trying to kill Ronald Reagan isn't necessarily going to make you like a villain but yeah like I would hear stories about how this guy would go to Plan 9 music in Williamsburg Virginia not will Williamsburg, Brooklyn. But Plan 9 was the record store I went to in college at UVA. And he'd like trade in UCDs and the man has good taste. And like, I don't think there's anything that will

endear you to like the indie rock music critic world than like having what is perceived as good taste. Because people were just like utterly shocked when people who aren't necessarily in this realm demonstrate that they like the same things. Like, Big Boy, like the rapper, Big Boy from Outcast. Like, he's been talking about how he likes this one Kate Bush song for like 15 years and getting mileage out of that. More ass with John Hinkley. Oh, yeah, you know, well, I don't like Ronald Reagan either.

I like Neutral Milk Hotel. Sure, come on in. I mean, you almost feel like if Twitter existed in 1981, that he could have just tweeted about his musical preferences. and that could have been the way that he tried to impress Jody Foster, you know, instead of trying to kill the president, because that was the motivation for that, that he was trying to impress Jody Foster.

He was a big fan of the movie Taxi Driver. So there was all that sort of stuff. This comparison got brought up last week, and I think it is pertinent. People were likening John Hinkley in a very specific kind of way, because these two people are otherwise, not at all alike, but the guy from Eve 6

who became the Twitter superstar of 2020 when he went on and he was funny and he was self-effacing and he was self-aware and we talked about that at the time that like what are the limits of this?

Can you rehab yourself on Twitter by simply just having some self-awareness, having a sense of humor. And I feel like this is like the next threshold. Like John Hinkley, who failed at killing the president, by the way. I feel like if he had succeeded, it wouldn't have worked.

By failing to kill the president, it actually made him more successful at Twitter. Yeah. Yeah. I think one thing that was said... He lost the battle, but he won the war. One person said on Twitter that like the difference between Eve Six and John Hinkley is that Eve Six had a successful hit. But... Oh, man.

But yeah. I mean... Is it too soon? No, it's been 40 years. Yeah, and Ronald Reagan has passed. He's been, he died. I don't know when, like a while ago. Nancy Reagan died.

So, yeah, I think we're okay. And again, he was unsuccessful. So I think it's okay to joke about unsuccessful assassinations. They're inherently more comic than one that succeeds. So again, I think that's what enabled John Hinkle. He was playing the long game. He failed in 1981. 40 years later, though.

He's a Twitter star. Yeah. And he's a singer-songwriter, too. So I think he has songs on Spotify. It does. Is that true? And apparently he got into a little beef with Devo because Devo used one of his love letters to Jody Foster as lyrics, and he complained that he hasn't gotten royalties for it. Oh, man.

Yeah. It's a very rich text, John Hinkley's indie rock career. That's kind of a spin on the bad art friend scenario, you know, except Devo wasn't really friends with John Hinkley, but it's a similar situation where you're lifting someone's unhinged public statements and re-contextextualizing them for art. I want to read like a 20,000 word piece in New York Times Magazine about that dynamic. That should be the bad art friend part two story, I think. Anyway, let's let's go. get to our mailbag segment. Thank you again for writing in.

If you want to hit us up, we're at Indycastmailbag at gmail.com. You can also find us on Twitter at Indycast 1. And if you like the show, please leave reviews. Wherever you get this podcast, leave us five stars or four. We're always open. You know, if you don't think we're perfect yet, if you want to say that we're almost perfect, that's great. Anything below a four, just keep it to yourself. Yeah, you don't need to do.

You don't need to share all your opinions publicly. Let's get to our first question. Do you want to read this one, Ian? I will read this one. So this one comes to us from Jordan, from Detroit, Michigan. Very indie cast. With the announcement of the new Animal Collective album, Time Skiffs, and the excellent new single, Presser John,

it was a good day for an AC head like myself. I've had to act as an Animal Collective Defender over the years as the population seen to become colder and colder to the band. So it was nice to see such a warm response to the new single, people saying this could be their potential comeback album. Well, I believe Animal Collective have remained relatively strong, especially live, I understand the sentiment. So my question is, what are some of your favorite comeback albums to come out after a long hiatus or string of mediocre albums? And he also asked a bonus question of what indie legacy act you would root for to have a big comeback album.

Arcade Fire come to mind and pre-breakup, Jordan's answer would have been the Indy cat's favorite, yay-sayer. Yeah, he's buttering you up with that one specifically. You're a gay-sair, But Booster. Oddblood needs like a two-episode Indycast Hall of Fame arc. Man, that should be your 33 and a third opus. If there's any 33 and a third editors out there, Ian, I think you're ready to write 50,000 words on Odd Blood, like tomorrow.

You can just do it off the dome. So, yeah, the question is, so Jordan is, talking about Animal Collective. They announced this new album, Time Skiffs, and that single is good. Prestor John, have you... Yeah, good stuff. Yeah, it's good. It's, you know, I'm not...

I am cautiously optimistic. You know, I was thinking about this, you know, and by the way, we did an Animal Collective episode. I don't know when, sometime last year. We were ahead of this curve. If there is a comeback, we were ahead of the curve. And I feel like... A lot of the previous decade, 2010s, in indie rock, was about reacting against the music of the late aughts.

That Animal Collective was a part of, grizzly bear, dirty projectors, that Brooklyn art rock scene that was really popular and also critically in vogue. And it seemed like there was a generation of critics that came in that wasn't into that, that grew up reading think pieces about how great those bands were. and there was this really pronounced correction. I would say over-correction. Yeah. Against that generation of bands. But it feels like we've moved past that now. And again, this is just a gut feeling I have.

But, you know, there was that nostalgia for the early aughts. And I wonder if we're now about to have some nostalgia for the late aughts in indie circles. What do you think? I mean, do you think, because I feel like that's part of this. I think people are ready maybe to embrace Animal Collective, like a new record in a way that they wouldn't have been even two or three years ago. I think that you are correct and that Animal Collective has been kind of a mascot for everything people wanted to move past from the past decade to the point where I think the pendulum has swung back to

where people might want to overrated Animal Collective album on the mere fact that it doesn't sound like flora dada or whatever um i i don't know if people are quite ready for that yet i do think that um the the animal like there were a few years where if like you wanted to get like 10,000 likes for a tweet you would just say remember when it would remember when pitchfork like tricked us all into liking animal collective l.O.L like that was a guaranteed viral tweet but nowadays I think that the the reservoir has been exhausted and I think that like Pressor John, like, it definitely doesn't reach their heights of, you know, like their prime. But I do think that people are willing to take a much softer attitude towards it.

But, you know, as far as, like, whether or not they can release a comeback album, like, and the question, you know, Jordan asked, like, what our favorite comeback albums, so to speak, are. It's so much easier to come back from a hiatus than a period of mediocre or just okay albums. We saw, I think, Lowe do that this year, or in 2018 as well with double negative. I think flaming lips are like the model that Animal Collective would follow, I think. Like, at war with the Mystics, like, they were on thin ice before that. And like that just completely tanked Flaming Lips stock. And then they made these like really dirty and dark albums like Embryonic and to a lesser degree of the terror.

And I think that was what I'd always been hoping Animal Collective would do. this seems to at least trend in that direction, Presser John does. But as far as my answer to his quote, which is my favorite comeback album of recent times come back after a string of mediocre albums, I'm going to be very own brand, bring up Jimmy World's Integrity Blues.

I had very little hope for that after damage, but it gave me that feeling when I heard it in 2016, like not just going from, wait, this is like not bad to, this is good. Like, no way, this is actually great. Holy shit. Very rare feeling.

And I think Integrity Blues bought Jimmy Eat World like 10 more years of me being excited about their albums. So that had, like, the yield has to be like Jimmy Eat World as far as like comeback albums. So you're very unbranded with your answer. I'm going to be very on brand with my answer. I think that if you, you know, I was talking about nostalgia. for the early aughts before and that was fueled by the Lizzie Goodman book, Meet Me in the bathroom.

Ah, yes. Around that time, the strokes were able to reemerge after a period in the 2010s where I think people left them for dead. And I think maybe even Julian Casablanca left them for dead. And then they come out with the new abnormal that came out in 2020. And to me, that is maybe their most beloved record since Rumen. on fire. Oh, yeah.

Just from anecdotal evidence, people talking about that record, there was so much a genuine love of that record. And I think it's a really strong record myself. There might be some of what you were referring to with Animal Collective where people might feel tempted to overrated a little bit. I think that might be happened like a little bit with the new abnormal, but it was definitely a return to prominence for that band. I would also say, you know, we've talked about this band on this show.

fairly recently, you know, the Killers is another band that I had left for dead. And their last two records, I think, are, like, really good. And the records I'm most excited about from that band probably since their peak in the mid-auts, you know, the Hot Fuss and Samstown, that era. Yeah. So I agree with you. I think what a lot of bands do is they go on an extended hiatus, five, six, seven, eight years. they don't put out anything

and then they come back and there's this natural responsive goodwill to that whereas if you've been putting out albums the whole time that people haven't responded to to get people to click back into attention is always

I think a really difficult trick your low example I think that's a great example like their last two records I think have totally elevated them past the sort of standard legacy band status and hopefully Animal Collective can do the same

yeah And I think another example that like, speaking of On Brand, like the last Muse album, by that point, people were like were so done making fun of them that they were actually willing to convince themselves like, hey, you know what? This is actually pretty, it was actually pretty good album, The Resistance, I believe that was called. Was it called The Resistance? Oh, man, I don't know. Either way. That last muse album, not half bad. I mean, well, and we also talked about Band of Horses last week.

Oh, yeah. seem to be in the same slot. You know, Jordan was asking what bands that we would want to have a comeback. That was a band we talked about last week, about having good feelings about. I think we would both hope that they put out a record that we could get into in the same way that we get into their best records. Yeah, 2020 is shaping up to be the most indie cast year of all. Besting 2021, which was previously the most indie cast year of all. I'm excited for it.

Let's get to our second question. Yeah. And we should breeze through this because I'm excited to talk about the war on drugs. But we first have a question from Mitch. He's in Sydney, Australia. Tight. And we're always excited to get questions from Australia. Australia?

Is that how they say it down there? Australia. You don't have a good track record with pronouncing things these days. Down under. Downanda. Like, that's how they talk, right? That's a pretty good Australian accent. Okay, maybe not.

We'll have to ask Mitch. Mitch, Mitch just unsubscribe. from our podcast. With Ian Tynne, than not recently, and much discussion given to the wedding playlist, let's shift the attention

to the ceremony at the other end of life. What are the tracks you want played at your funeral? My two are unashabably Campfire Kansas by the Get Up Kids, and for me,

this is Heaven. That's a Jimmy Eat World Song. So Mitch definitely leaning towards Ian with this question. So let me hear your tear jerkers or mood lifters. Your Chugel, yours and Chugel and Emo, Mitch. Chugel and Emo, aka chemo.

Oh, man. So is this something you've thought about before? Songs you'd have played at your funeral. Look, man, Mitch, if you're already unsubscribe because of how Steve, you know, because Steve's Australian accent. Down under. down on da. Look, man,

like, you know me in Getup Kids. Like, Campfire Kansas is like one of the worst Get Up Kids songs. Like, whoa,

shots fired. Yeah, dude, like I'm generally speaking a big on a wire backer. It's kind of like their wood water, but man,

Campfire Kansas. I skip that one. But... Is that a sad song? I mean, it's like an acoustic song like quite literally about going camping.

Okay. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe you'd fuck with it. But I, you know, Mitch brings up how you would play something different at your wedding

as opposed to your funeral. You know, like during my wedding ceremony, I played something from Sigra Ross's album that was titled with parentheses. And that was my first thought for my funeral as well. I think that's why, you know, Sigra Ross has really been making, they've been one of these bands

over the past 25 years that has made so much money from music sinks because you hear that album and you think like, oh my God, like I am in love. like never before and also I feel like I'm dead. It does that at the same time. I think explosions in the sky would do the same thing.

But at a funeral, like, I just don't want people to take my death all that seriously. I would actually prefer to go in the opposite direction and kind of make light out of it. Because, you know, I'd imagine most people would be sad. I want to do things like play, like something that's so on the nose that it's actually funny. You know, like bone thugs the crossroads and maybe you. reenact their iconic VMA performance where they had a horse drawn buggy with a hearse on it. Yeah, like I am going, I am veering completely in the opposite direction. Because, you know, with my wedding, like I had to play things that people would enjoy and wouldn't

break the mood and were, you know, conveyed certain things about my relationship with another person. My funeral, it's all about me. So we're going to play the crossroads. We're going to play maybe, like, I'll be. missing you. Yeah, I'm just going to die off brand. That's the only time I'm going to be off brand.

So this is an intriguing scenario here because when I first saw this question, I went to a very obvious place. I was thinking, well, I'd want to hear, I want people to play Broke Down Palace by the Grateful Dead because it's a song literally about dying. It's a beautiful song. It's a song I imagine. If they're lowering my casket and they play the song, there's be tears all over the place. you bring up an interesting scenario here.

I wonder if it is actually kinder as a person who's the corpse, essentially in this situation, to play music that will make people glad that you're no longer around. So just like an irritating piece of music. So I'm wondering, like, maybe I'd want them to play the entirety of Lulu, the Metallica. Which turned 10. That turned 10 this week.

That turns 10 this week. I didn't even think about that. That's a great shout out to that record. And I legitimately really love that record. record, but I just would want people to, like, listen to junior dad as they're sitting there and just being like, oh, I'm so glad this guy's dead. Like, I'm so glad I don't have to be subjected to this guy's music tastes and takes anymore. I was also thinking, you know, because you say, well, the funeral was all about me, but, like, you're not even there to hear it. You know, like, this is

not music. Or am I? Well, that's true. Maybe it's like an Albert Brooks situation from that I don't know if you saw the most recent... I did see the most recent curve. The living funeral? Yes. It could be that. But I was thinking, like, well, maybe the better question is, what song do you want to hear as you're dying? Oh.

Because the song that's going to usher you out of the world. And I've been listening a lot lately to Screamadalica, the primal scream record, which turned 30 this year, another anniversary. And I was just thinking about the song higher than the sun. Lord's influence. No, that was loaded. Loaded is the one that she ripped off. But higher than the sun is one of the slow songs on that record. It's very dreamy, very druggie.

And I just like to imagine that as I shed my mortal coil, that I'll just be on tons of painkillers and just be totally out of it, be like just have dementia, be on drugs, be totally altered. And I can listen to this very druggie, beautiful ballad about ascending into the sky. you know, either through chemicals or through some sort of spiritual escape. Yeah. So I think I'd want to hear that song as I was going. And then you can play whatever at my funeral.

Except you can play whatever, but first you have to play the entirety of Lulu. Yes. By Metallica and Lou Reed, or Lou Reed and Metallica. I can't wait until we're doing indie cast in our 70s and we're just all completely drugged out. Oh, it's great. I know. It'll be great. Just incoherence. and I won't even pronounce my own name correctly. It'll be beautiful. 2015, that's really going to be where Indycast hits its peak.

You thought 2022 was an Indycast type of year. Waits who are all whacked out on painkillers. Oh, it's going to be beautiful. I can't wait. All right, let's get to the meat of our episode. Finally, my Christmas. Yes. The new War on Drugs record.

I don't live here anymore. Drops today. Their fifth album, the first War on Drugs record in 4th, years, the follow-up to their Atlantic Records debut, a deeper understanding. Of course, the War on Drugs is a band that formed in 2005, fronted by a guy named Adam Grand Dusiel. When this band first started, Kurt Vile was in the band famously for a few years. He plays on their first record, Wagon Wheel Blues, which came out in 2008. But he departed shortly after that, and of course, he went on to his own very successful solo career. The big breakthrough for the War on Drugs

came in 2014 when they put out their third album, Lost in the Dream. That's one of my favorite albums of all time. And I'm just going to put my cards in the table. If you don't know anything about me, just know that the War on Drugs are my favorite band of the last decade. And the new album does nothing to discourage that.

I would say, and this is another part of my schick, but I will stay true to it, this band has passed the five albums test, as far as I'm concerned with the new album. I think it's another great record, and I'm happy to explain why I think that, but I'm curious to hear what you have to say, Ian. I know you like this band.

You don't like them as much as me, but you like them. What are your feelings about the new record? Okay, I first have to bring up that Doxon and Australia, not your finest moment as far as pronunciation, but this guy with the notoriously, how do you pronounce this guy's I've never said this guy's name out loud

because I don't know how to pronounce it. You just like nailed it right off top. Hey, I did my research. I listened to the CBS this morning interview with Adam from 2017. So I'm trusting that pronunciation. All right. So yeah, I wanted to stick the landing on that.

I appreciate the acknowledgement. So I am generally speaking a war on drugs fan. And I think that this album, like I do think they've passed five album test. Now, I think this is a good album. And I also would say that it is probably their fourth best album, or my fourth favorite album at most. I think what this album does. And I, boy, I'm glad that I waited this long in the episode to like say the sort of thing that just might make Steve so apoplectic that he couldn't conduct himself properly over the span of the hour. Hey, man, I'm a war on drugs fan, man. I'm chill so don't worry about it. Well, let's find out how chill you are when I say that I like

war on drugs in the same way I like say like beach house or you know to a degree Tame and Paul like they're a band that like when I'm in the mood for this kind of expansive festival filling rock music but I also don't want to feel anything emotionally too strongly that's when I can put on war on drugs and I think that's kind of by design. It's really interesting over the past decade how a lot of the biggest rock bands like the ones that play festivals the ones that like are have reached a peak of popularity are in way that's kind of viety um you know like i think that adam has even when he does speak from autobiography uh i think the way he sings and like the the lyrics themselves tend to not be he doesn't tend to overshare um and

I think with this record, what happens is that, like, the kind of emotion of, say, lost in the dream that I could conjure for the fact that it's a little shoegazy or a little electronic. Like, he's gone, like this album sounds a lot like Phil Collins or solo Don Henley. It's not like a kind of evocation of those. If I already hear, say, like, change in the supermarket or I don't want to wait, which really does sound like that Paula Cole song. I wouldn't know the difference

But I think that he just does such a good job with it In a way that It's not excuses the blankness But like aligns with the blankness I can hear like the title track And you know compare it to something like say M83's Kim and Jesse There's just this big grand blank canvas

To project my own emotions Rather than like a stimulus to make me feel something. I mean, do you think that like he's kind of like reached, like, reached his final form as like a big corporate rocker now? Well, I have to address some of the points that you just said. Okay. I mean, you have your own experience with this band and that's how you feel and I can't argue with how you feel. I would just say that it does not align at all with how I engage with this band or how I feel like a lot of the like super fans of the War on Drugs engage with them. I find their music to be incredibly emotional.

I mean, I think Adam's strength, his greatest strength, is his ability to create just transcendent moments in the context of a song. I'm thinking of, say, the second guitar solo from Strangestown. Oh, yeah, that. The guitar solo from an ocean between the waves. On the new record, probably my favorite moment on any record I've heard this year is on the song Old Skin,

where it starts out as this piano ballad, that slowly builds, you hear a guitar come in, you hear the synths swell up, and then the drums come in. And it is the most exhilarating moment that I've had listening to a record this year. I actually tear up a little bit when that comes in, because it's one of those things that it doesn't sound like Bruce Springsteen, it doesn't sound like Tom Petty, but it evokes the same kind of feeling that you get from the crescendos

in like the best of the classic rock songs that everyone knows. and loves. And I just feel that Adam is so talented at doing that, at isolating those moments, at building them, at just sculpting them so perfectly. And I think on this new record, you know, you asked about him achieving the final form. I mean, I agree with you. If you look at the war on drugs throughout their entire career, they started out as a band that was much more lo-fi, much noisier, much blurrier sonically. And over the course of, you know, it's a lot of, you know, 13 some years, they've slowly refined that and clarified it

to the point where now, instead of making these sort of, you know, homemade versions of arena rock songs, he's just making arena rock songs. And he's not an indie rocker anymore. He's on Atlantic Records. So, like, he's on a huge label.

They're going to be playing Madison Square Garden on this tour. Oh, yeah, they're headlining Madison Square Garden. They're at a point now where they're playing multiple dates in big cities. So they're definitely ramping up to being, not just the band that's influenced by arena rock. They're playing arena rock at this point. And to me, I feel like, you know, the vibe thing,

certainly there's an aspect of the war on drugs that I think has been very influential in indie rock and just rock music in general that is plugging into the vibe thing you're talking about. But I actually feel like that has been de-emphasized. and their music as they've gone along. I think Lost in the Dream, for instance, is a much vibe-yer record than this one.

That was a record that they were still doing these long intros and long outros that were akin to the fragmented instrumentals that were on the first couple records. And that aspect has been totally excised from the band. And now Adam is just writing great pop songs. You mentioned, I don't want to wait. I think the title track falls under

Songs like Wasted and Old Skin and Harmonia's Dream, Victim, these are all just immediately engaging pop songs that work because they're just super hooky. And I can say this because I've had this record for a while. It's already my most played record of the year. You can listen to these songs over and over again and not get sick of them, even though they are very immediate. And I think in that respect, that is the Tom Petty aspect of his, songwriting that I think he's really developed.

Even since Lost in the Dream. Lost in the Dream, like I said, is one of my favorite albums of all time. But there's no question to me that his songwriting has just gotten much more streamlined, concise, and approachable to the point where I don't think you need to be in their cult or to have heard, like, the early records to get into this one. This might be the first record that a lot of people hear from this band. I could totally see that happening. So I don't know.

I mean, look, you feel like there's a blankness there. I feel like, you know, there's so much emotion in this music. I mean, I think that's why I like it. And that's why I think that they can play these big rooms, because it connects with people in a way that he doesn't have to spell it out in the lyrics. You know, it's not about the words. It's about, again, how that drum part sounds in old skin when it comes in.

You know, like, the vocals and the lyrics are all part of, like, a larger kind of sonic landscape that I think is about evoking just these huge outsized emotions that work so well in, like, the big rooms that this band is playing now. I would, what, what I, what I wonder about this band is that what you mentioned, it's like, yes, it's a motive and also, like, you don't have to, uh, pretend that you're at him when you listen to it. And I wonder sometimes if this is like a reaction or maybe even a necessary counterbalance to, I think a lot of the bigger rock bands or guitar bass bands nowadays where you hear it.

It's like, run me over with a fucking truck Mitzky or something like that. Like Adam is a guy who, like he looks like a pretty normal dude. He's married or at least has a kid with, you know, like an actual like TV slash movie star. And like I don't hear people like think. that they're at him, even though he's this very aspirational character, it's like, you don't, like it doesn't have the cult of personality that seems so necessary when talking about big indie rock these days. I mean, I think, like a Mitzki or Phoebe Bridgers. Yeah, he doesn't have that sort of thing, that intensity where it's all about him. It really is more of like a band persona,

even though he's clearly the face of the band. I mean, to me, like the most obvious model for the war on Drugs is Wilco. Because like Wilco, you have one person who's clearly at the center of the band, who's the face of the band. You have the bass player who's the other charter member, you know, sort of the vice president of the band. And then, you know, for a part of the history, you had a shifting lineup. But with the War and Drugs, I mean, they really have locked in to this lineup since

the touring cycle for Lost in the Dream. In the same way that Wilco has locked in. They locked in around the tour cycle for Ghosts is Born. Like, it's been the same lineup since then. But I also think Wilco has been a band that's like, their sound has like shifted in a lot of ways. Whereas War on Drugs has been, I think, a lot more, like, overtly influential. Like, if you hear a band trying to do war on drugs, like, you know they're trying to do war on drugs, where I won't say the same thing about, like, say, Wilco.

You know what I mean? Well, I think Wilco, when they were in the 90s, and they were more of an all-country band. I think that was influential in its own way. I mean, obviously coming out of Uncle Tupelo, they were part of that lineage. But, you know, the thing with Wilco is that they just do what they do, and there's times where they're in fashion

and times when they're out of fashion, but they just put out albums and they can tour really well, and they don't really need to be a Mitzky or Phoebe Bridgers-level buzz band. to be successful. And I just feel like that's the road that the War on Drugs is so clearly on. Like if I were to guess what they're going to be doing in 10 years,

I would say that we're going to be getting very good to great albums every three years. They'll tour really well. They'll never be the most fashionable band, but they'll have a fan base of people who will be in there, probably from like, say, 30 to 50, you know, ages there,

which is, again, not a very glamorous demographic, but it's a very loyal demographic. demographic. Those people will go. They'll listen to the War on Drugs at barbecues, and it'll be a great career. They'll just be that kind of band. I just feel like that is so clearly the road that they're on to me. Do you think that like War on Drugs is the most sonically influential rock band of like

the past decade? I would say probably yes. Just because they've, you know, if you, especially, I would say the songs, red eyes and holding on specifically. There's so much music that I feel in the rock world that is aping those songs. Yeah. Maybe holding on even more so. Where it's that drum sound, it's the guitar sound, it's how Adam's voice, you know,

weaves in between all of that, how layered it is, but it also seems like pretty open at the same time. Yeah, I mean, I think. I think they have been influential. I wonder how that's going to spin out from here. I'm curious, too, like, how they're going to evolve from this point, because I do feel like a deeper understanding was a refinement of Lost in the Dream, and this album is a refinement of a deeper understanding. And their evolutions, I think, have become less dramatic with each record.

Like, if you listen to the new record and you listen to Wagon Wheel Blues, those two records are pretty different. But like the last three records, I think, exists in a similar space. And I'm just curious to see if they continue to just refine and refine and refine and refine to get cleaner and cleaner. Or if Adam will ever feel tempted to just make another record in his bedroom, you know, with a bunch of tape recorders. I would actually kind of like to see that happen

because I've been really listening to a lot of early war on drugs. lately and I really like that era. I mean, I love their whole catalog. But that more homemade era is really fascinating. He needs to do like Robert Pollard did with that one album where like

they just socked away the entire advance and spent it on beer and just recorded it at home. Like that's what Adam needs to do. Like take that Atlantic money, buy himself like some luxury cars. Like I anticipate him maybe like getting into like a Jerry Seinfeld-esque luxury car era. I wonder, I mean...

Adam, you're a rock star. Be a rock star, man. I would like to see him go low five. But part of me is also like, make your version of the wall. Make your version of melancholy. You know, go really grandiose. That could be cool, too.

Do a Coldplay album. You know, do your collaboration with BTS. Do your Max Martin album. Like, go, just like, go, complete 180. So you said that this would be your fourth favorite. Are you, would you say Lost in the Dream is your number one?

Absolutely. Yeah. Lost in the Dream with Slave Ambient coming in at number two and a pretty significant drop for a deeper understanding. See, I think I agree with your top two, actually. I think Lost in the Dream is, that just seems like the Yanky Hotel Foxtrod of the catalog. And then Slave Ambient, I think, is such a great capper.

of their early era. And that album's aged really well for me. I would put deeper understanding and I don't live here anymore. And even Wagon Wheel Blues, that's been a real up-and-comer for me recently as like 3A, 3B, and 3C. Arms like Boulder, see,

I mean, that's a great song. Or show me the coast. I love that. I mean, just the 10-minute song, so noisy. I really like that, I like that kind of thing. But I don't know. To me, like, their catalog is really consistent.

I love all five albums. I don't... Not a dud in the bunch. I don't think, yeah, I think it's really strong. I think you make an interesting point about the call to personality thing, because Adam, I think, has done something where he is the figurehead of the band, but he's also pretty clearly not interested in celebrity. Like, I don't see him doing the Kevin Parker thing, like, where he's going to be trying to get

on Travis Scott records and things like that. Maybe that should happen. Like that's a thing. Like, I, I want to see, you know, like, I want to see, like, I want to see, like, I want to see an Adam war on drugs being on, like, the next posthumous pop smoke album. All right.

We now reach the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? All right. So, you know, a part of me does want to give a shout out. to Dan Ozzy's new books sell out. But, I mean, it's a great book, but that dude's been all over every single outlet this week.

So that guy doesn't need any more attention. Shout to Dan, but also, Dan, go away for a little bit. No, I'm just playing. Great book. But an album that came out this week that actually evokes a lot of the major label punk slash emo bands that Dan talks about in his book, is a man called Save Face.

They are a band who put out a album called Another Kill for the Highlight Reel. If you look at the album cover, it looks a lot like the one from Distillers' Coral Fang. And the sound itself is taking a lot of cues from Black Parade-era My Chemical Romance. Very interesting shift because on their previous album, which came out in 2018, Mercy, it was more of like a kind of quasi-em-em-mo or is it pop-punk type sound. This one's gone incredibly theatrical. They all wear matching red jumpsuits.

pretty clear-cut my chem fanfic, but at the same time, I just love an album that embraces the more campy side of things and also has kind of a big major indie label production. They really commit to the bit on this one, and I can't think of a heck of a lot else that's like it right now. So I'm very curious about whether it finds an audience or if it finds an audience,

but if you find yourself being nostalgic for particularly that 2004-5 era of mainstream emo, I would say that Save Face, definitely a band you need to check out this week. So I'm going to go in the total opposite direction with my recommendation. I want to talk about a singer-songwriter from Canada named Miriam Gunron. She is a cult favorite, I think if you're into indie folk type music, she put out her debut record in 2014 called Not So Deep as a Well. And it's been a while since she's put out a new record, but she finally dropped a follow-up this month.

It's called Ma DeLiree, Songs of Love, Lost and Found. And this is a record I've been playing a lot lately. It really casts a spell. So be warned if you put this record on because I have a feeling that you're not going to want to shut it off. It's a collection of reimagined folk standards from Canada, France, and the United States. So sometimes she's singing in English, sometimes she's singing in French. And I know that, like, when I say a collection of reimagined folk standards, that people might have this idea that it's this very neat and sterile sounding record,

very, you know, coffee house, Starbucks CD on the counter type record. But it really isn't like that at all. Mirren Gerdron is really gifted, I think, at taking old songs and revering them, but not being intimidated by them. You know, she injects a lot of rawness and a lot of feeling into these songs to the point where it feels like they were written last week. And to me, that is what the best interpreters

in the folk realm always do. You know, it connects you to this history that you didn't know existed, but you suddenly realize is relevant to your own life. And to me, that's what this record does. It's a really powerful record just a very kind of cathartic listen and I really recommend it

I think it's a really beautiful album and it's perfect for this time of year as the weather turns cold at least where I live I guess in San Diego it's going to rain on Monday it totally rained on Monday it was like cold and rainy for one day

What's cold though? What's cold in San Diego? Fifty-five I listen to Foxing's dealer and now it's going to be 86 today so beautiful We've now reached the end of our episode here on Indycast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week.

And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Taped newsletter. You can go to Uprocks.com backslash indie. And I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.