Indiecast - The Weeknd Controversy, Bruce Springsteen, and the Dance Punk Revival

Episode Date: March 10, 2023

On this week's episode, Steve and Ian discuss a wide range of topics while acknowledging that neither is as good at music criticism as Jamie Lee Curtis (3:59). They dive into Steve's recent Bruce Springsteen live experience (23:24), the controversy over The Weeknd's new HBO show (34:18) and whether he's too big to cancel, the rumors about a possible reunion tour by The Hotelier (45:38), and the recent wave of dance-punk bands inspired by the mid-aughts (51:24).The mailbag addresses the state of bands performing on late night television (9:03). Doesn't it seem like that golden era of a band killing it and then going viral with a late-night performance is over? It's been a while since it happened, right?In Recommendation Corner (1:01:08), Ian recommends the latest album by Slowthai, Ugly, while Steve gives props to the brand new EP by Manchester Orchestra, The Valley Of Vision and the excellent new single by Ratboys, "Black Earth, WI."New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 129 here or below and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to IndyCast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, we review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we cover a variety of topics, including Bruce Springsteen, the weekend, and the dance punk revival. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He's an even better music critic than Jamie Lee Curtis.

Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you? I'm going to start going by Ian Lee Cohen. now. That's like my actual name. And just when you say Jamie Lee Curtis, it flows so well. But I mean... Your male name is Lee? Yeah, it is. Wow.

That, okay, why isn't this your byline? That is an awesome byline. Like, Ian Lee Cohen? It really flows. It's like David Lee Roth or Jamie Lee Curtis.

Dude, you have blown it for the last like 20 years, man. You could have been Ian Lee Cohen. I think you should transition into this. in your 40s. This should be your thing. I'm going to start introducing you as Ian Lee Cohen. I love this.

It's like a little bit like more dignified. But you know, as far as like... It's more like hair metal, I think. It has like a real flare to it. I guess... Yeah. It's Jewish but hair metal kind of like David Lee Roth. I love it.

By the way, that's going to out. But I just learned right before we started recording that today is... is registered nutritionist day? Oh my fucking God. It's dietit. Like, I'm like joking, but not. Like, if you call a dietitian and nutritionist, like, that's, I don't know, that's like calling an emo band emo.

Even if that's like sort of what they are, they kind of have to reflexively be insulted by that. Whoa, whoa, wait. So like, because I was, I was feeling good that I was going to bring up registered nutritionist day to you because we're recording, just to be clear, recording on Wednesday, March 8th. That is registered nutritionist day. But there is a, there's like a, a rivalry between nutritionists and dietitians out on these streets.

Yeah, registered dietitian is what I am. That's like the thing you have to like, you know, do an internship for and go through a program and get like certified. Whereas I believe you could, you know, finish this episode and say that you're a nutritionist. Most states don't have any sort of licensure with that. So basically, I mean, it's not a huge. deal like you know a patient once got me a mug that said you know uh call me a nutritionist says no dietitian ever and by the way it's like if you see someone like in the streets out there with a like you know like a beats don't kill my vibe tote bag they're probably a dietitian say hi to them

you know it's their day to shine actually no don't do that because by the time this airs it'll be friday the tent well but you know what we we need we need the love so yeah i mean because this is registered nutritionist day. So is this a mitigating factor at all? Because you're talking about nutritionists not being properly accredited. But this is singling out the nutritionists who have done the work. You know, I don't know how you get registered as a nutritionist. You get registered as a dietitian.

A nutritionist is like kind of like life coach. Think of it as like the difference between, say, life coach and a therapist. You know, there's a nutritionist listening to this episode. right now, driving their car into a ditch with rage for all this slander that you're dropping on the nutritionist community. I just hope you're prepared because you're basically, you know, you're throwing hands at the nutritionist community right now. That's right.

I want all the smoke with the nutritionists. Okay, so I made a Jamie Lee Curtis joke at the top of the episode because there was a story this week where Jamie Lee Curtis was at some red carpet of the... and I don't know how this came up, but she went on this little rant about how she wishes that bands would play matinees. So she's like, Bruce Springsteen, you two,

Coldplay, whoever, play a matinee, play at 1 o'clock in the afternoon. And she's saying, you know, because I'm an older woman, I don't want to go out at night, I want to go to bed at 7.30. So why not play a matinee? And this got a lot of traction online. And it does seem like an idea, like when I first heard this quote, because several people sent this clip to me.

And they're like, isn't this great? And I was like, yeah, it makes sense. And I was like, why doesn't this happen? And the thing I realized is I think the reason why there's not matinees is because music venues make a big part of their money from liquor sales. And you can't just pour beer into your... your audience's mouth at like 1 o'clock in the afternoon without looking like you're contributing to the disintegration of the social fabric. Although now that I say that, that's basically what sports is. Yeah, you're describing like on a Sunday or a Saturday like football. Yeah, you're right.

So like why, I mean, what do you think about this? Do you wish that they were matinees? And why do you think that there aren't? Well, there actually is a, sometime next month in San Diego, there's a Sacia, like one of the pioneers of Screamo. They're playing like a benefit show at 3 o'clock on a Sunday, which, hey, that sounds great. Yeah, but that's the exception. Yeah, totally. It's an exception. But, yeah, I mean, I've thought about this myself.

And it's kind of the same reason that venues don't like to have all ages shows because, you know, you can't sell alcohol at those and they lose money. But, yeah, I think the difference is with. you know, like a football, like I've been to many, many football games where, you know, you get drunk at like 10 o'clock in the morning. And the game starts at like one. And, you know, you just kind of have to not really pay too much attention. You're just there to like kind of, for the ambient experience. And maybe that's how you get down to cold play. You just want to get like completely fucking plastered and listen to strawberry swing. But, um, I mean, I'm open to the idea. but I think that like with concerts, it's like it needs to be more of a, it's like a social event, you know, it's like when I do a concert, I don't want to do like other stuff after it.

Like that is the terminal of my day. Whereas with football, I don't know, you go home, you get dinner. I'm open to the possibility, but like I don't see that happening. What I would want is not one o'clock. I want the show to start at like six. or seven, you know, like I'm done with work, we get out, it's like 10 or 11 o'clock. Like, I think that is the middle path to walk. No, I disagree because if you're going to, if you're going to argue that it should be a night, the six, seven o'clock hour should be for dinner and drinks. You know, you want to get dinner beforehand and then you go to the show.

So you either do that, you either have to start at 7.30 or you start at one. Like, I like the idea of a matinee. and I do think that for some of these older acts, it would make sense to do it in the afternoon, just as an experiment. Like, maybe it would be weird, you know, like, oh, I just woke up at a meeting breakfast, and now I'm going to go drive to the arena and see you too. You know, that might be a little weird.

I don't know, but maybe it'd be awesome. I got to say, though, that, like, when you say, like, oh, six or seven o'clock is, like, the dinner or drinks hour, like, I eat, like, someone. who's like 65 years old. I'm having dinner at like 5 or 530. So that's, we have to put that into perspective. But even if you eat at 5.30, you can't really do that if the show starts at 6. So now you're eating like at 4 o'clock.

Now you're like, I'll miss the opening band. Now you're going to like Old Country buffet with like all of the senior citizens who go to bed at 6 o'clock. That's what you have to do now if the show starts at 6. I don't, I'm not sure about that idea. But I like the matinee idea. I would like someone to try that. Someone out there should be a trailblazer and see if they can do this. I feel like...

Chris Martin, I know you're listening. It's like Rafi probably does this, you know? People like that. I feel like they do the early show because, you know, you've got the kids that can't be out late at night. But I feel like adults don't want to be out at night either. I think there's a lot of... You get to a certain age.

It's like, I don't want to be outside when it's... You know, it's like Libya and the Sopranos, you know, like she doesn't drive when it's raining. You don't want to drive when it's dark. So we're doing like an all-bantor episode this week because we have like a lot of topics that we want to get to. And I touched on some of them at the top of the episode. So we're going to do the mailbag a little bit earlier today. There's no meat guarantee this episode because we don't really have meat.

It's all little, it's small plates in this episode. Yeah, top is all apps, you know. You've got some chicken wings, got some fried pickle spears. Halapeno poppers, of course. The blooming onion. Got all that stuff. Do you want to read our letter this week? Yeah.

So this comes to us from Graham in Dallas. And he, or it could be she, could be anyone. But nonetheless, Graham and Dallas asked that they're bringing up that I shared a Twitter performance of at the drive-in on Conan. depressingly 20 years ago, gosh, at least 20 years ago. It's probably 22. Yeah, and this was like a few weeks ago because this letter's been bumped a few times. We've been, you know, we've been too busy talking about ugly kid Joe and, you know, incubus and stuff. And we, we've, well, we wanted to get to this letter. So yeah, it says this week, but I think this, I think he did like last month or something.

Yeah. And, you know, we talked about 93 and 99. We're back to the future in 2001. where at the drive and are playing like a dozen different late night shows, each one's sloppier than the last and more awesome. So during the late 90s and aughts, I know I either discovered to or came to newly appreciate lots of bands from watching late night shows, mostly Conan, Letterman, or Craig Ferguson. Some notable examples that come to mind are radiohead playing fake plastic trees on Conan, my morning jacket playing one big holiday on Conan, future islands doing, yeah, that one's definitely awesome.

Future Islands doing seasons on Letterman, that's the one that broke them big, and Warren Zivon on Letterman lots of times. So Graham wants to know if there are any bands that we discovered via late-night TV and what are some of our late-night performances. In the age of streaming, and it seems the death of late-night TV, does something equivalent exist today? So this is a great question, Graham. I've written about this before.

I wrote a big column last year, I think, talking about my favorite TV performances since 2000, and most of them are late night performances. And the angle I took in the intro to that piece was that this has pretty much gone away. Like, I don't, I'm trying to think of like the last time that there was a live performance that just grabbed me. And I think the gang of youth's performance on Seth Myers is It's like the last one that comes to mind I know people talk about Big Thief when they played not

On Stephen Colbert I think that's like another one that people Reference as being like a great late-night performance But it seems like it doesn't happen very often anymore Just because late-night TV In general seems like it's in decline And a lot of times they don't even have bands I feel like bands back in the day,

it was like every episode that'd be a band. And now it's like maybe once a week, if that, that they'll have a band on. I want to ask you quick, because I think we both have like a small list here of our favorite late-night TV performances. Going back to the At the Drive-in thing that you posted from Conan,

is that the canonical at-the-drive-in performance? Because on my list, I had their performance on Letterman from that tour cycle. And I think they do one-arm scissors on both shows. And they're pretty similar. But is the Conan one, the canonical one? Because Letterman was the one in my mind. And maybe because I was more of like a Letterman person back in the day.

I think so those two, like I think you can go. That's like, you know, kid A versus OK computer. Like you can't go wrong with either one. But there's also, I think, performance of that they do on British late. TV where they just completely like piss off Robbie Williams or something like you know Robbie Williams maybe like towards like the

downslide of his career and that that one I don't know exactly which it might be Jules Holland but like that's the one where like it really gets deep into like the vocal pedals like you really start to see the Mars Volta take shape on that one and that's like I think the

the guitar becomes unplugged halfway through that's just straight up physical performance they're like barely even playing They are like an all-time late-night TV band. If you're making the Hall of Fame of Late Night TV bands, they're like a first ballot Hall of Famer. I mean, just killing it on every show. We're actually debating which at the drive-in performance is the best. That, again, I think, tell me if I'm wrong, but I mean, I think that, again, highlights what I was saying before,

that you had this golden age of late night TV performances that seems so distant now. I can't think of, there's just not that many memorable performances from recent years that come to mind. Maybe we have to ask somebody younger.

But they would care even less, though. Maybe, yeah. Someone younger, like, they don't, like, if you're 20, why would you care at all about late night TV? Like, where of the generation where Conan and Letterman mattered. You know what I mean?

I feel like if you're born in 2002, why would you give a shit about any of this stuff? To me, Letterman was the greatest appreciator of bands in Late Night TV. Because he would get genuinely excited about bands. And when Letterman would get excited about like Dumb Dumb Girls or something. I remember when Dumb Girls were on, He's like, oh, that's how you get it done there.

And, like, you know, he'd go great. And he always, like, love drummers, too. Like, he would always fawn over drummers, I feel like. Oh, yeah. And, I mean, I feel like Seth Myers is a legit music fan. And you could see, like, he's the one most likely, I think, to book indie bands that haven't been on television before. Like, he booked Cheer Meg, you know, a few years ago, bands like that.

He seems like he's a genuine fan. But, you know, Jimmy Kimmel, I don't know. he's a, I'm sure he owns some Dave Matthews CDs, but, you know, other than that, I don't know if he's like a big fan of music or anything. Yeah, I mean, but I mean, who does, who, who of that age group doesn't own a few Dave Matthews albums, you know, you can't hold bad against them. But I think that, like, this, this gets the kind of point of, like, what purpose, um, late night TV serves, um, you know, because I think an important point that Graham, uh, makes is that he or she or they, discovered bands via late night TV. And to me, like, even back in the day, I don't think I discovered any bands on late night TV.

That doesn't mean it's not a discovery tool. Like, if you're a person who, you know, kind of consumed passively pop culture, you watch MTV or the radio back in 2001, you might not be aware of at the drive-in, but you see them. And, like, that might be, like, one of the five CDs that you buy that year. You know what I mean? it's more to me like a confirmation these days that like a band has reached a certain level like even when like um wild pink did CBS this morning you know that kind of let me know okay they've reached a point where they can be on TV you know what I mean um turn style is another example like they might be kind of an analog to uh at the drive in in the sense that like you know you as the song goes you got to see it live to get it and you see them playing with such energy on stage and it's like, oh, they're making mute, people are making

music like this. Like, this looks really energetic and awesome. Even though, like, watching one of their hate five, six videos is like a way better advertisement for what they're about. It just kind of confirms to me that, like, a band has reached a certain level. And you know what? There's probably a lot of, you know, for lack of a better term, normies out there who still, you know, see the YouTube posted on the next day.

Like kind of similar to Saturday Night Live, how people talk about that show, not necessarily having watched it on Saturday night at like 10 o'clock or 11 o'clock. It's more that like it disseminates via YouTube, you know, the next couple of days. So it has a longer half-life, I suppose. Yeah, I mean, and I think that underscores like why late night TV in general has faded and why these performances seem less special. Because like you said, if any of the, if a performance gets traction now, it's because people. see it on their computer. It's not because they're actually watching the show. And part of what made late-night

TV performance as special was that that might be the only chance you get to see the band. If you were a Pearl Jam fan in 1993, seeing them on Saturday Night Live was like a pretty exciting thing because it's like you can't just go on your computer and watch a million other videos. I mean, this is like the only chance you get to see

the band. But there was that window. Again, I think, like the last Hurrah, I think of this, was you know, like late odds, early 2010 where music websites would write about late night performances and they would go viral.

And, you know, like the future islands. The future islands. There's like the go-to example of that. But there's other examples. And I made a mini list of things that I still remember and I still watch that I think are just classic performances. And these, again, are like from the last 20 years.

But TV on the radio, on David Letterman doing Wolf Like Me. Yeah, that one. Like, that, that's kind of, like, that, that performance, I know has been brought up by quite a few artists. I know, like, Barty Strange has brought that up of, like, watching that and thinking, like, holy shit, I, you know, not necessarily, oh, I can be that guy, but more like, I can do this. Like, that's a real, like, that was a real game changer, I know for a lot of people. Total classic. I actually think they did it twice on Letterman.

I think they did it again later, but, like, the first one is the, the, classic one. The Walkman doing the rat on Conan O'Brien. I think it's a classic performance. The drummer in that band, whose name I cannot remember. Just a complete beast. I can't either. Yeah. And it's like, dude,

I'm sorry, we're going to call you the beast. You know, I'm sorry we can't remember your name, but you're the beast. The National doing terrible love on Jimmy Fallon, like three months before High Violet came out. And it was... That's like your definitive version of that song, right? It is. Well, and

And that's how they play it live now. And they've, but they fucked it up on the record. But they play it like they play it on Fallon now where it's like this anthemic, awesome song. And that was great. Jimmy Fallon actually is a good music show. I think his old late night show in particular was really good. That's because another thing that we could say is the odd future performance.

Yeah. Totally iconic from that. And then I was going to say, and this is a little bit more obscure, but I remember it. I think it's great. Is Deer Hunter doing Motomania on Jimmy Fallon? I don't know if you remember this. Oh, yeah, I remember that one. It's sort of like their version of terrible love where it's like that.

You know, it's a good song on the record, but I think that's like the definitive performance. And people might actually remember that one more so than like the actual, like, Monomé is a good record. but I think that that performance was perhaps that was like the last deer hunter moment I think like the last like Deer Hunter newsworthy type moment. And for people who haven't seen it

what makes it so memorable not only the performance is great but like Bradford Cox is like dressed up in this sort of glam rock decadent costume. He has like a bandage on his finger that I don't know if he was actually bleeding or if that's fake blood but then at the end of the song he

walks off stage and the camera follows him as he walks through the bowels of 30 rock. And it's a very theatrical performance, but it, you know, I think is a pretty brilliant use of television to really make a performance seem special. You know, it feels like an event when you're watching it. And again, I just don't feel, I feel like that medium as a way to move the needle, it's just been really diminished. It's like a million, it's one of the million things you can blame

the internet for, you know, but I think, it feels like that moment has passed. Yeah, I do miss it. I still, like, there's still, like, ones that I, like, prefer to watch. I think the Ganga Youth's one, where they play on Seth Myers, like, even though the sound is just, like, awful. Like, the sound mixing just makes no sense.

And I think that gets to a point of, like, you know, a lot, people may be, like, shying away from this because, like, very few bands, particularly on Saturday Night Live sound good. They've just, it's been, like, 60 years and we've just not mastered sound mixing on, like, a TV show. I think Top of the Pops or whatever, like, kind of got the right idea of just, like, putting a band on there and lip syncing, you know. I always felt like on the other shows, bands sounded good, though. You know, like on Conan, Letterman,

like, there is something about, like, you know, like the Lorne Michaels produced shows, for whatever reason, the sound mix is always kind of janky. I don't know why that is. The Jack Antonoff of,

like, late night, like executive producers or whatever. So, let's transition back to our banter here. And, which I guess is the meat. I guess, you know,

it's a, it's a tapas meat episode and we're well ahead of the guarantee so it's it's it's Brazilian barbecue you know we're bringing out like skewers of meat like not all at once but you know you're getting it it's just not like a plate of like you're not getting a teabell you're getting like the skewers of like pork and uh beef and chicken you know it's it's consistent yeah and this is the blooming onion right now we're bringing this out right now we're in and the twice baked potato is to be coming right after this. Are we at Fogga to Chow or we at Outback?

We're both, baby. We're both. So I saw Bruce Springsteen this week and the East Street Band. They were there as well. Amazing show. Loved it. I was extremely fortunate because I'm a privileged member of the media. I got a press ticket and I was in the pit.

So I had an amazing spot. Bruce at one point was about three feet away from me. He was sweating on me. I had Bruce sweat all over me. It was incredible. And I wrote about this for Up Rock. So I'm not going to talk at length about this show. You can read my review because I don't know how much you care about Bruce Springsteen.

Oh, I care about Bruce Springsteen. Do you care about Bruce Springsteen? Like, are you friends? I care about the boss. I've never seen him live. And like when you said I was in the pit, I'm just like imagining like Bruce doing one of his monies. along is about like, let's open up this fucking pit. Like, but it's not, it's like an arena rock pit.

But no, I had a major Bruce Springsteen phase in college. And like, I'm not like an expert on Bruce by any means. Like, you know, I could, if we were to do a future episode where we like rank his albums or like his studio albums, you know, and cut off like after, after human touch, you know, I can do that. You know, I'm a, but I've never seen him live. And I think, you know, when I was reading your piece, which if you are listening to Indycast, like I highly recommend reading it. It's like just a really resonant piece about like, you know, the passage of time and this particular artist. And, you know, with Bruce Springsteen, I think that he is, like, we use the word iconic a lot.

And Bruce Springsteen, like, is an actual icon or like an avatar. and that like so much of our views on like what classic rock should be what an artist should be like what an artist should stand for like every time he's on stage for three hours we're like we are like one show closer to not ever getting this anymore and I think that's the kind of the message that comes across also like he talks a lot in that in that piece about like I'm so old I'm so old, I'm so old. I looked at his age. He's like seven years younger than Joe Biden,

and I feel like that's only, that's like way closer in age than I expected. Yeah, I know, exactly. I mean, and it does highlight how amazing it is that this dude is still doing three-hour concerts. Like, the paradox of Bruce Springsteen is that a major theme of his recent work, and this goes back,

at least to his memoir, born to run that he put out in 2016, is reflecting on his own mortality and writing about, you know, friends of his that have died and, you know, his parents died, and loved ones have died. And, you know, it's natural that a man his age will be writing about this and thinking about it. It's a major theme of his last studio record of original material, which is a letter to you, came out three years ago.

So he's ruminating on death. But at the same time, he is, second only to Mick Jagger in being sort of maniacally committed to staying physically fit. His body is like pretty damn solid for a man his age.

He's like an expense. He could be like an honorary expendable. You know what I mean? Like Mick Jackar is like kind of wiry and like lizard like whereas like Bruce Springsteen man that guy he could be like Tulsa King

status. Yeah. There's one point in the show toward the end where he like rips his shirt open. And then he's It's like right it's right before 10th Avenue

freeze out because then he walked out onto the platform in the middle of the arena and was like singing the people and that's when I was close to him and his shirt was open and he has like

yeah you're right like these Stallone-esque pectoral muscles glistening with sweat bulging out very tanned very leathery pectoral muscles. And you can convince yourself watching him like, oh, this guy's never going to stop.

Like, he can do this forever because he just looks so fit. But he can't do it forever. And he's even kind of hinted that, like, at some point he's going to pivot to being more of like a Johnny Cash probably type person where he'll be performing, but he won't be doing these like gargantuan shows. Maybe he'll be sitting on a stool playing a. acoustic guitar, you know. Like in high fidelity. Yeah, hopefully, you know, because, I mean, and he, again, he seems very healthy, so, you know,

hopefully we have like 25, 30 years more Bruce to enjoy. But I did think watching this show, like, I don't know if I'm going to be able to see this again. Like, how many more tours can this band do? You know, because they're just, I mean, and maybe, you know, because, like, the stones are still touring. They're in their 80s. But, you know, you have to think about these things when you see a band like that.

It was also making me think, like, okay, you have Bruce and the Stones. They're like sort of at the top right now of the arena rock chain in terms of age. They're the most experienced. And then the next tier you have like U2 foo fighters. Is there a tier after that?

Cold play you can't call it rock really, I guess. No, but like they're, no, you're right though, but they're like a U-2 type band. So they would be there just trying to just i mean you got to put metallica with that you two food fighter and you get the chili peppers are also in

oh yeah of course of course i mean they're playing a stadium here in minneapolis next month so they're oh yeah and and and and bruce is playing stadiums this summer um so you can play stadiums too but i'm just thinking with the pivot for bruce like i mean i i you know like is there an end

like a arena rock like for bands, yeah, perhaps. Like, I don't, like, you know, we're gonna, we could possibly be seeing like Taylor Swift or, yeah, and the weekend, you know, the weekend, playing, like, stadiums, like, well into their 50s or 60s. Of course, though, that, like, you know, it just remains to be seen, like, what that's going to look like, you know, for a bit. Because, like, Metallica, like, yeah, they look pretty rough, but, like, you can kind of see how they are, you know, they, they, they, they kind of works. when you're thinking about like rock music. They look pretty good for their, I mean,

Headfield, I mean, he looked rough. He looked rough in the 90s, you know? I mean, he's still, he looks pretty good. I mean, you know, arenas are obviously not the ideal place to see music, but like when I was watching Bruce, it just drove home again. Like, this is the, he's the best to do it in arenas.

Like, he can make you forget that you're in an arena. Like, because I've been to arena shows that were really boring, you know, where it's like, I wish this was in a club or a theater, you know, I'm not feeling any connection. But Bruce's music is so big that it's, in a way, enhanced because it's in an arena. And that seems like maybe like a lost art, you know,

because I think even these other people were talking about, I don't know if they're better in an arena. You know, they play these venues because they're really popular. Like Taylor Swift, I've never seen her live, so I can't speak one way or the other about that, how, you know, whether she works in that space. Because it's a different conversation of like, are they a good performer? Because there's a lot of good performers, but there's not that many performers where if you put them in that humongous venue, you're glad that they're in that venue. Most of the time you feel like, I wish I could be closer. But with Springsteen, you know, because I had great seats for this show,

but I've seen him in stadiums like where I was in the second to last row and he was like a little tiny dot and it was still a lot of fun. So that seems like a really unique thing. I don't know if there's many people that can step into that role in the same way that he did. I guess, you know, Grohl, Dave Grohl is so much, he's so committed to being like the rock ambassador that it seems like he's like preordained to take over that role if Bruce ever steps aside but i don't know it's that quite

the same thing though to me no food fighters just never have that real sense of like meaning to their music that Bruce does and i mean just the one thing that i that i'm thinking of with like Bruce just when you're talking about like how populist he is and how great he is in arenas and so forth and also like his advancing age and what the pivot's like if he ran for if he wasn't like the Democratic primary in 2024. He'd finish no worse

than second, right? Like, would Obama endorse his podcast buddy or Joe Biden? I think that's like what the kind of

drama we need to like spice spice up what's probably just going to be Biden. But I'm like, who,

like, it would like completely neutralized the election. Like, what fucking Republican's going to run

against Bruce Springsteen? Like, I, I, like, and he's 73. That guy's like

fucking spry, man. Yeah. I think that's the direction. I love the scenario of Obama having to decide who to endorse Bruce Springsteen or Joe Biden. I definitely think he would, I definitely think he likes Bruce Springsteen more than Joe Biden. I have no doubt about that, but is it more politically feasible to endorse Joe Biden? I don't know.

I think he would go with Bruce. I think he would go with Bruce, too. So I wanted to talk to you about this story that dropped last week. It was right after we put on our episode. And it was a Rolling Stone story about the weekend and his upcoming, I assume it's still upcoming, HBO drama called The Idol. And it's a collaboration with Sam Levinson, who is the guy in charge of Euphoria, one of the big breakout hits on HBO of recent years. And this show, apparently it's about a budding pop star played by Johnny Depp's daughter, Lily Rose Depp, and she gets taken under the wing of this Spengali type figure,

played by the weekend. And apparently this show, it's like a very chaotic production. they had a director, a very acclaimed indie actress and director named Amy Siametz. She directed most of the season, and then she departed. It's not clear if she was fired or if she left voluntarily, but she left the show, and they decided to scrap the entire season at the cost of like $50 million. It's like $50 to $70 million. It's a lot.

A lot of money. Ridiculous, like right off. and they're redoing the the season with Sam Levinson in charge and they were reporting the story is reporting on you know the turn that the show was taken because apparently it originally had

maybe more of like a feminine perspective more told from the perspective of Louis Rose Depp and apparently the weekend said this show is too feminine we need to sex this up or something so now it's going to Apparently there's just tons of sex scenes in it and like really weird stuff going on.

Like there was one scene that I remember from the story. Apparently this didn't get filmed, but they threw out the idea of having Lily Rose, Lily Rose Depp's character put a egg in her vagina and cracking the egg or something. Some sort of egg and vagina thing going on. Yeah, there's that. There's like a lot of like nexium cult sort of. parallels as well.

Yeah. A lot of this just kind of reminds me of like the stuff the weekend would like play in the background during the Kissland tour. Like there, like I distinctly recall seeing him at like the Greek theater in L.A. and there was like he would just throw on some like Japanese porn while singing, whatever songs there were on Kisland. I completely forgot what's on that record.

It's so weird that Kisland is technically his debut because the first three albums are are mixed tapes. So like, House of Balloons is not his debut album. Kiss Land is his debut album, even though everyone considers House of Balloons his debut album. It's very confusing.

But anyway, you know, Twitter predictably went nuts over this story. The weekend responded with a tweet at Rolling Stone, and it's a clip of this show that hasn't been released yet, but it's a clip where the weekend is talking with his publicist, played by Dan Levy.

And he's basically talking about how irrelevant Rolling Stone is in this clip. So it's like tweaking Rolling Stone. I wanted to bring this up to you because it just made me think like, you know, people were going nuts about the weekend. And I'm wondering, like, is he too big to cancel at this point? Because I think it's pretty clear that he is. I feel like this story, if it were about anyone else, it would have had some sort of impact.

But with the weekend, I feel like the net result of this story is probably neutral. And if not neutral, positive, like slightly positive. Because people are going to want to watch this show. I know I want to watch this show, especially if it's bad.

If it's bad, I'm going to watch the whole thing for sure. because it has a train wrecky type vibe from this story. It just seems like there's people who love the weekend and people who hate him. I don't see this affecting him either way. And I just wonder, like, what could he do

to get canceled? I mean, I feel the thing with the weekend is that, like, he's never done anything. You know, he's never, like, assaulted anyone, right? It's not as far as I know. He's just, like, kind of a creepy guy, He's a creepy guy who sings like sleazy lyrics.

Like that's the doc against him, right? And it's like been baked into his like entire persona from the jump. And also I think it's worth mentioning that as we record this episode, the weekend has the number one song in the country. And it's a song that's six years old. It's like Ariana Grande remix. I heard this when I went to get ice cream the past weekend. You know, it was a TikTok hit. It became a viral hit.

So, yeah, his six-year-old weekend song is now the number one song in the country. I cannot wait until our guy, Tom Bryan, gets to, like, this era of explaining number one hits and, like, how that's come to be. But, and also, like, I think that the thing that neutralized, I mean, like, let's just be very clear. A lot of the stuff that they talk about in this story just sounds like, it just sounds like a really fucking, like, actual toxic place to work at. And it's also the exact kind of show I would have expected the weekend to make if he was given $50 million in 2013. You know, for all the laundering of his image that he's done in the past five years, he's still very much the character he plays in Uncut Gems, which is himself, like basically trying to convince Julia Fox to have sex with him.

Yeah, it's like he's him. And like I think any time his actual personality comes out, you get. the sense that like he's exactly the kind of guy he talks about in his music and I think that like to a degree I don't want to say this helps him but it kind of does distinguish him from you know pop artist for who it's assumed that I mean when you compare him to say like Harry styles I think that there's like a component of his on camera just not like particularly like on record or on set type toxicity that like draws people in just because it's counter programming to everything else going on in pop music.

Exactly. I mean, that's the thing with, I'm going to revisit this when we talk about dance punk here in a few minutes, but I do think we're in a moment where there is a hunger in the 2020s for scumbag music. And I mean, you, like, you've talked about like shittiness, like you like shittiness in bands. And that's something that draws either in 1975. I think there's a definite shittiness element to the weekend. And look, he's not new.

I mean, he's been around a long time. I would say, I guess Taylor Swift is probably the biggest pop star in the world, but if it's not her, it's the weekend. I mean, it is neck and neck, and it might be the weekend. I think Harry Stiles is probably bigger. I think the weekend is bigger just because he has a longer track record. But I don't know, maybe if you're considering the One Direction as part of Harry Styles. Yeah, I do.

And I think the fan. intensity for Harry Stiles is way, way, way bigger. See, the thing with the weekend that's interesting to me is that he does have this persona, like you said, of he's a scumbag singing about his scumbag life, which by the way was the norm for pop music when I was growing up. I grew up listening to Guns and Roses and NWA and the ghetto boys and scumbags talking about being scumbags. That was the formula.

People loved it. the weekend is proof that people still love it. It's a very commercial formula. You take a catchy song and you add lyrics about being a horrible person. It works. People like it. It's interesting. It's dramatic.

You know, that goes back at least to the blues. You know, we could go back 100 years. You know, Robert Johnson did not have a progressive view of men and women relationships. You know, women are literally the devil in his songs. You know, I mean, so this is nothing new.

But there's also an element. with the weekend, I think there's a big part of his audience that doesn't know anything about him. They just like his songs. Like, my kids love blinding lights and, you know, I feel it coming and, you know, some of his big hits. I don't feel about glass table girls. I don't think they go that deep. But, you know, they don't care about the lyrics. You know, a lot of people don't listen to lyrics.

They don't, they couldn't care less. And I think the weekends catch with that audience, too. I think about when I was listening to, um, George Michael's faith in like, you know, when I was seven years old, I was definitely not getting the message of like, I want your sex or monkey, you know? Yeah, or like father figure, like, oh, the psychosexual consequences of the song. I was not pondering that. I just thought, oh, this is a cool song. And then PM Dawn samples it. And I like that too. So, yeah, I don't know. I think the weekend. He's, look, I like the weekend. I'm a fan of his music. I mean, I don't, when I say I like the weekend, I'm not talking about him. personally. Right.

Although, again, I am, I kind of going with what you were saying, I am intrigued by scumbaggery in music, if it's not literal scumbaggery. You know, to me,

there's a difference between actions and lyrics. You know, and maybe that's just because of how I grew up. I'm used to despicable lyrics and songs, you know, and people, and I feel like,

there's a higher threshold for me with lyrics in terms of me holding that against an artist. I feel like that's part of the art. And unless you're actually doing these things in real life and hurting people, that's a different story. But if you're just singing about this stuff, I do think that's a form of escapism for people. It's the same reason why they watch gangster movies

or play violent video games. As long as it doesn't translate to actual, you know, abhorrent behavior, I don't know. I have a hard time saying, oh, you're canceled because of that. Yeah, I think that there's like the implication that like the weekend in person is the guy that he portrays himself to be on the record. And, you know, like not. Is he though? I mean, is there evidence of that?

There's just like a lot of implications in that Rolling Stone piece that it's just like a really shitty environment. But like, again, it just sounds like a complete cluster fuck on all levels. You know, I am so much more interested in watching this show now than I was when I first heard about it. I feel like we need to talk quick about a big news in the Ian Cohen world. And you should take the lead on this, I guess. Talking about the hotel year, it sounds like they're going to have a comeback this year? I think so. I think so.

Emo Legends, the hotel year. Yeah. I found this out in like, you know, the most Christian Holden way, which is that they posted on, um, they posted on Twitter. Like, they were having this like chatbot conversation with like Sweetwater, the, um, the music, uh, retailer, which by the way, if you buy anything from Sweetwater or like Guitar Center, they are going to call you every other week asking how things are going. So that seems legit. But, um, you know, at the end of it, they get into as they are prone to do, some deep philosophical questions about like the nature of existence and friendship and capitalism and

also that they are probably getting together to play some shows, which that sounds great. I'm not expecting any new music. I don't necessarily want new music if they don't want to do it. Like Christian said that they're not going to make another hotel year out until the revolution happens, like kind of jokingly, but also quite seriously. They're just an interesting person in that, like, they get involved in so many flights of fancy that it does not sound like they really. want to be in a kind of, you know, semi-popular emo band, and which is great.

I think goodness ended their career on a perfect note. But, you know, we are rounding the corner on a 10-year anniversary of Home Like No Place is there, you know, next February. And I think for their sake, like, I always predicted that if they were going to come back and do like an actual tour, it would be for that album. And, you know, part of me, like, wonders if that is the case. again, I have no inside information beyond what they post on Twitter. I'm just sort of wondering what those 10-year anniversary shows are going to be like because

they were kind of like not like as revered as they are. They like even amongst like emo revival band, they weren't that popular. This is the thing I wanted to ask you because, you know, I'm a casual listener of this band. I like this band. But I remember on my old podcast, Celebration Rock, you were my guest when we talked about our favorite albums of the 2010s. And I think you had two hotel year albums in your top five. I almost certainly did.

And I probably still would. And I was like, really? And you were like, really? And I was like, okay. And like where, like, what is their legacy at this point? Like, are they sunny day real estate at this point? Because I feel like they're not. I feel like they're, they haven't reached like that sort of iconic status.

Like they weren't like sunny day real estate had nonny. in its day, but, like, they weren't a huge band, and then there was some time after their initial run of records, and I feel like their stature grew a bit in that scene. Has that happened to the hotel year, or are they still in flux, or are we not far enough removed yet from those records? Like, what's their reputation in 2023? It's really tough to say, because, I mean, like, Sunday Day Real Estate is a band that was, like, on subpop.

Like, I mean, for a long time, Diary was one of the best. selling records on that label. You know, they played late night shows. I love watching their John Stewart. It was the MTV show that John Stewart hosted. Their performance of In Circles in Seven, also a great one. But, you know, I think that just even more so than like the second wave bands of like, you know, Sunny Day or Braid or, you know, American football or Promise Ring.

like the level of visibility for the hotel year is so much smaller. Like in about a month, I'm going to see Sunday Day Real Estate do their comeback tour in San Diego and they're playing like, you know, in a 1,000 cap room. Like the same place that, you know, I recently saw a Manchester orchestra, let's say. Yeah. But, you know, I think that if they do a home like no place is their tour, you know, it'll do well in like, 300, 500 cap room in whatever city you're into. But, like, they were never as ambitious as a lot, the bands from, like, you know, the Sinai real estate era, nor even, like, the bands from their own era, you know, because, like, one of the themes of everything that Christian Holden has done since they, since goodness, which

was seven fucking years ago, has been about, like, just not really wanting to go through the grind of, like, you know, doing tours just to do tours or doing festivals just to do them. They're ambitious or lack thereof as far as like the way I want them to be popular has been a little bit frustrating in a way, but I think it's kind of perfect as far as like where they're at. So, you know, I don't think that it's going to be a sensation. When they come back, it'll just be like it was in 2016. Or like the people like myself are just going to be like super fucking stoked.

And, you know, they sounded great last time they played live. which was at the Cower Intuitive holiday show in Boston. So, you know, I'm looking forward to it, and I just kind of want them to do their thing. Yeah, I mean, I'm not as invested in their popularity. Yeah, I mean, the people that love them are, like, obsessive about them. They're putting both albums in their top fives, all that stuff. And then it's like the Velvet Underground here.

They've got a Velvet Underground, like, following. And it's like, you know, we're in, like, 1974, like a couple years after their peak. and now the legend is still growing. Quickly here, I want to talk to you about dance punk and the possible revival of dance punk of the early 2000s or mid-2000s variety. And this is inspired because you DM me this week about this band called The Dare.

Yes. And they're a new band. They only have like two songs. Each song is about two minutes long. And I want to read what you said. You prefaced it with, they're like, LM-F-A-O doing LCD sound system. And I was like, oh, boy, I got to hear this song.

And I played it, and it's pretty stupid song. But it was stupid in a way that I appreciated. Do you want to talk about this band? I do. Set up this band because there's some other, there's at least one other band doing something similar, and I just wonder if maybe we're on the verge of a revival here. But yeah, talk about this band The Dare.

I feel like all of our listeners need to listen to this band and have a laugh. So this is such a fascinating thing because, you know, throughout 2022, people talked about like the return of indie slees. And it was like more just this kind of, I don't know, it was like this media creation. But like here's this band The Dare that's like actually going to get signed to a major label and has like really popular songs. Before we like talk about like what this band is right now, we got to talk about like the person in this band.

Their name is Harrison Smith. And they were in a band like this like real like indie slash emo band called Turtleneck. And like I gave him a pretty harsh review in 2017. And you know, they kind of took that to heart. Like they made a video in 2018 for a song called Today where like they get like a text message from Ian Cohen. they put me in the video. So, like, they've been kind of shit posty.

I mean, between that and a new protomartor album and, like, the enduring popularity of war, which our friend of the potty, Eli Enis talked about, my ops are thriving right now. But this, this artist, like,

they were kind of shit posty back then, and they're still kind of shit posty right now, and they just, like, kind of stumbled on this thing that, like, has actually connected. And they're just kind of doing, like,

LCD sound system like people are like oh this is just like a pale rip off of like LCD sound system in the rapture but it's like think of it like Cobra Starship or like LMFAO and it's like it's somehow I don't know captured the imagination of I don't know if people really like this man or whether it's just like kind of a funny thing to talk about but I think that they're just kind of cool in the sense that like that whole era of like meet me in the bathroom is being like very museum piece. And it was also a time for like people who like really just wanted to do coke and like

act shitty unironically, which is also a huge part of the Meet Me in the bathroom book that kind of got downplayed in the documentary. Again, like you're saying, it's like there is this desire for indie sleaze that has just kind of sublimated into this song called Girls. Yeah, I mean, I think we're starting to see a pendulum swing in this decade from the previous decade, which was very serious, very taking people to task for bad behavior, which was a necessary development, of course. But at some point, it starts to just feel scoldy and not a lot of fun.

And there does seem to be a desire out there to be stupid and have a party. And I do think that, you know, when we talk, you know, there's been this conversation in the culture about, like, why are teenage. girls depressed. It seems like a lot of people are depressed. And I do wonder if all of this culture that we consume about trauma and mental health and figuring out, you know, getting your mind right, which again are very important things, but the fixation on that at some point, I think becomes a burden.

And you just need to hear songs about like having a fucking party, you know? Sometimes like that is the best thing for your mental health is to not think about your mental health, but to have a fucking party. And when you tell me about this band, I was like, okay, this feels like it's maybe in line with that. And I wonder, because this is like, again, they only have two songs. So, like, there hasn't been, like,

much written about this band that I've seen, and they are sort of at the beginning. So I'll be curious to see what critics say about them. I suspect that they will not be critically acclaimed. They will not be critically acclaimed. But it made me think about another band that you talked about on the show recently and that I've been listening to a bit, this band model actress that is critically acclaimed.

But they also fall under this dance punk umbrella, and the lead singer has a very, you know, it's like a self-conscious rock star type vibe. And there is, you know, that... All very decadent. Yes, very decadent. And after you talked about it on the show, I checked out the record, and I message you that this felt to me like upscale monoskin. And I meant that as a compliment because I don't hate Monoskin.

But to me, like those bands are more similar than they're not. Like there is, with Monoskin, it is, again, like a dancey rock band. It's a very self-conscious rock star vibe. It's just that model actress does it in a way that appeals to critics. I do wonder if that has something to do with... model actress being fronted by a gay man, which is different than like some, you know, some bro singing about this kind of stuff. I think that that makes it feel more palatable to critics and maybe more subversive because it's not, although there are a lot of decadent

gay male rock stars and rock history. I mean, you know, starting with like Freddie Mercury, like one of the greatest rock stars of all time. So it's not like that's unique or anything. but I don't know like the model actress it's just interesting like the degree of seriousness with which that record has been written about compared to like monoskin which is just

like dismissed out of hand and I think that they're they're kind of coming from a similar place I think model actress does it better than monoskin but like philosophically I don't think it's that different it's really not and I think that when we talk about like indie slees

like when we talk about like the decadence of model actress. I mean, if you read the lyrics, like they are real ripe right there. It is like purple as fuck. Which, again, like, I didn't pay a heck of a lot of attention.

When I first listened, I'm like, okay, this shit bangs. This reminds me of the band Health, you know, which was kind of like a hymbo take on nine inch nails, which was a pretty hymbo, like, decadent band itself. I mean, you look at the Wish video. That is like high, homoerotic art.

But, you know, with model actress, like with the monoskin comparison, it's like, I think with them, what they're coming from is in terms of indie slees. And I think this is also true of dare. It's that this band has to be from New York. You know, it's like it is, because we hear a lot about, like, how their live shows are, like, subversive and they're dangerous and they're highly sexual. and also like most of the people writing about them, like that show's happening right down the street. You know, they can see that. Right.

So I think that this kind of gets into not, I think a big part of like indie sleeves or dance punk or like this era that people may or may not want to revive is that it centered New York in a way that hasn't really been the case over the past couple of decades. I mean like Philadelphia has just been whipping ass, but like Philadelphia is kind of a more blue-collar sort of modest city, which is kind of aligned with the way in the Iraq has been going. But, you know, this band just kind of makes you think of like the kind of like gutter, shitty, like doing bad coke off like a Honda Civic key next to the waterfront sort of vibe, you know, that we were that people want to, you know, people want to have.

And I just think it's kind of funny, though, that like when I, everything I read about. this band just leads me to believe that like it may there may be more of a put on than we're willing to believe i mean like i saw the uh you know the pitchfork profile and for some reason they're dressed like fucking neutral milk hotel like i don't i don't know if that was like the intention but like i when i read about them i mean like i think there's a part of me that like feels sort of pander to like all evoke beach slang like and again that's like a very problem but it's very clear that like I allowed certain critical

faculties to be shut down because they just reminded me of like a bygone era that I miss dearly like in the same way that like they fill the Japan droids void it's like this is man I I want to like I want to remember what it was like to be 23

and think House of Jealous Lovers is the most profound fucking thing I've heard in my life we've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week Ian, why don't you go first? So we're going to stick with the theme of just celebrating like real dumb, not dumb as in like it's stupid, but like dumb as and like kind of dumb out sort of dumb out music, like music that just kind of

speaks to the more lizard brain aspect of what we do. And, you know, next week maybe we'll get more into like, you know, the cerebral ship. But there's a UK, I guess you can call him a rapper. For the most part he wraps. His name is Slow Tie. and, you know, I'm aware of his existence. I haven't really listened to much of his stuff before. He's one of these rappers that you can typically find on, like, you know, Glass and Berry

or other rock-leaning festivals. And I heard that his new album, Ugly, was, like, more like post-punk. You know, he's performed with idols, and, you know, he's got, like, Fontaine's DC on this album. So all those two things would probably not have me inclined to check it out. but I was talking to someone whose taste I trust a lot and he's like, yeah, I'm not into his old stuff, but I like this slow tie album. And I listened to it at the gym and it completely fit the need of like just dumb, outrage for rage sake music. It's probably the only post-punk, like classic kind of post-punk album like in 2023.

And you know what? If I were 16 years old, this would probably completely alter my worldview. Like most of the songs are about like how, you know, depression and like the evil voices in his head telling him to drink and do coke and like have sex and cheat on his partner. And yeah, if I'm like at the gym, which is in like a very, very plain stated way, just me lifting heavy objects for no reason whatsoever, I need dumb out music for that. Like I don't need like, you know, this anger to be directed at like, say, certain political structures. I don't need it to be like anything deeper than what it is. And it just kind of does remind me of like being 19 or hearing Eminem and just like, I don't relate to what he's saying. But I'm like, you know, I need to feel pissed off.

I need to get this out of my system. So if any of that appeals to you whatsoever, slow ties up. ugly. I think that'll, I think that's the kind of dumb out music you need in 2023, at least for right now. See, I like that there's a, there's a thread in our show of you talking about music that you listen to at the gym. That is definitely a big genre in Ian Cohen music, whereas I, I do not go to the gym. I take long walks every day. I walk several miles every day. So perhaps that is, uh, that is a, why I listen to the music I listen to. So, My two recommendations, I have two recommendations I'm going to make here in Recommendation

Corner, both Music for Long Walks. The first is the new EP by Manchester Orchestra, Friends of the Pod. It's called The Valley of Vision. It's a record that really feels like an extension of their previous record, Million Maskes of God, really kind of building on the more sort of atmospheric sound of that record. And this is a cool album as well, because, there is a film that accompanies it. It's a 3D visual reality film that you can stream.

I think it's on YouTube. It's very trippy. Like lots of nature scenes and office scenes. It kind of reminds me of like the kind of thing you would see like Pink Floyd put out around the time of like, umma gama, like that kind of stuff where it's just slow pans across like landscapes and you feel instantly stoned when you look at it. So that's a really cool record.

The other thing I have to recommend is a single, it's the new single by a band that I love called Rat Boys. The song is called Black Earth Wisconsin. Incredible title. I'm predisposed to like it. Yeah, I was about to say, this is like prime hide and core. But in addition to the title, this is a nine-minute song, and about six minutes of it is guitar solo in the middle of the song. Just an incredible song. This is probably my favorite song of the year so far.

I'm going to say that right now. It only came out yesterday, but I've been listening to the song constantly. I think it's so good. They haven't announced an album yet. I assume that there will be an album announcement coming soon. This isn't just the standalone single, I don't think. But it makes me very excited for what this record is. Because they haven't, there are hints of this kind of music on their previous records.

but I feel like their last record leaned more maybe like in the pop punk direction because they also have like an old country vibe to their records as well and this is leaning more into the all country side with like again just like awesome guitar solos going on so I'm very excited for this album but the song just a great single one of my favorite songs of the year so it makes me think of a bull believer the kind of similar eight nine minute song that Wednesday released prior to the announcement of their new record. So I think that like Rap Boys appeals

in a very similar way. They're definitely like in a similar lane. And I love Wednesday but man this song this is this is my song of the year so far. It's so good. They nailed it. And Rat Boys really nice people, really good band.

I really like their other records as well. They're due. I cheer for them to make a great record and to really expand their audience because I think they deserve it. Really cool band. It's funny because they are highly associated with Wild Pink, a band that we talk about in very much the same way. Oh, yeah.

Love that crew. Great crew. Good people, great tunes. Thank you for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Taped Newsletter. You can go to Uprocks. backslash indie and I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.