Indiecast - We Review The New Wednesday Album and The Coachella 2026 Lineup

Episode Date: September 19, 2025

Steven and Ian begin by touching on the recent Jimmy Kimmel news, and whether the indie-rock podcast space is also in danger from federal interference (2:04). They then pivot to a quick Sportscast about the early dominance of Steven and Ian's favorite teams, the Packers and the Eagles (4:13).After that, they usher in the first-ever Feudcast to cover the hilarious almost-fight between two bro-country dudes, Zach Bryan and Gavin Adcock (9:57). Then they discuss the newly announced lineup for Coachella 2026 (21:28), and do a "yay or nay" on music festivals (31:28). Finally, they talk about Bleeds, the great new album from Wednesday (34:54).In Recommendation Corner, Ian talks about the latest from electronic artist James K and Steven goes with pop-rock singer-songwriter Brian Dunne (50:39).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 257 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and X (formerly Twitter) for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indy Mix tape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news in the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about the new Coachella announcement, a big bro-country feud, and the new Wednesday album. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. This is his last episode because he just got fired by the FCC.

Ian Cohen, Ian, Ian, how are you? See, I don't know about it. that because I've seen J.D. Vance's Spotify playlist and he's got Death Cab on there. There's a non-zero chance he read my transatlanticism review. So I might be in his good enough graces to survive whatever's coming my way. So you think Vance has got Ian Cohen bookmarked in his internet browser? I got to get the Ian Cohen takes on the emo favorites of the 21st century. You think that's going to spare you in the in the grand purge we're in the middle of right now i mean anything's possible he just reminds me of so many people i knew in law school around like 2003 or 2004 where they had you know

they were like to bring the briefcase to class type people but they also liked you know like death cab and the shins or whatever it's very much a type of guy so maybe he will find some sort of I don't know if unity is the right word, but just like empathy for, you know, my particular platform. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, maybe in the future, when we have the dictatorship fully installed, we'll have death capture QDity. There'll be, I don't know if they can be sort of appropriated by the government. They can be enlisted. They can be like the national, indie emo band of the country, almost like, you know, they're being drafted into the administration. that'll happen with Death Cab.

Yeah, look, we don't want to get too deep into politics cast here because, you know, we like to keep it light and fun here. I just hate how this administration is making me care about late-night talk shows. Because, look, let's be honest. No one watches late-night talk shows anymore. I haven't seen Jimmy Kimmel. I don't know the last time I watched that show. The last time I did was when they had knock-loose perform.

Ah, there you go. Yeah, and God knows if they see that, you know, they have like the glowing cross on stage. But if that's how, if that's how Kimmel goes out, he went out on top. It's just the most boomer thing about Trump that he cares so much about these late night shows and that he has to get revenge on all the hosts that have said mean things about him. I saw that he was even talking about Fallon. Yeah. Like he hates, like, why do he hate Fallon?

Fallon is the most toothless late night comic. I mean, does he even do political? jokes? No, yeah, Donald Trump on. I mean, it's just like kind of busy work. You know, the cultural war is all, there's always battles to be fought on in the cultural war. And it's like, uh, almost like a pop culture socialism where they just want to like redistribute cred to their people. So, you know, maybe, maybe knock loose goes on Gutfeld, uh, when the next album comes out. It's just going to be, yeah, Gutfeld's going to be on every network now. Uh, it's going to be like a three hour show. It's going to be amazing.

Who are some like other right-wing comics that could get a show? Larry the cable guy. What's that guy's name? Kill Tony, the guy who did the roast. Oh, yeah. I only know that because they talk about him on guys,

the podcast about guys. But I mean, I'm sure there will be, it's almost like going country how, you know, Aaron Lewis from Stain did that. Maybe there are just some really cynical operators who will go that route. Be smart.

It'd be smart. Yeah, you know, like Dane Cook, you could reboot your career. just drop some, you know, right-wing talking points. I mean, Dave Chappelle, you could argue, it's kind of caught that route, you know. Maybe.

I don't know. Anyway, let's get out of politics cast. It's depressing enough. Let's talk about sports cast here quick. Both of our teams, Packers and Eagles, doing really well so far. My team is kicking butt. Your team is 2 and 0. You just beat the Chiefs.

Who, by the way, the Chiefs, did you see like they were wearing T-shirts, like the free four? t-shirts for Rashid Rice because he's suspended because he was in a car accident where he almost like killed like some people like some kids at a car

and they're they're wearing free four t-shirts oh free four like the number four gosh yeah yeah number four yeah and it's like really guys the cheese man we're doing that yeah I don't know but

like the Eagles have not looked super great I'm just going to be like very real about that all their wins thus far I've had a very like 2024 Chiefs flavor in that if you are not a fan of this team, they are just super annoying. And yet the Chiefs, I mean, Travis Kelsey dropping a pass on the goal line leading to an interception which changed the game.

Harrison Buckker. We don't have to go into him, but you already know his deal, missing a field goal, which would tie the game. The teams are just such a loathsome team. And also they had that guy Chris Jones trying to talk smack to Jalen Hertz while they're in the victory formation about not passing for 100 yards and then like crit jayl and hers holding to shut the fuck up uh that was funny yeah that that was great um yeah the chiefs uh look they're not dead they're not dead by any stretch of the imagination because i don't think there

are many serious teams in that division but the eagles are due for a dominant game like the kind that the packers are playing the packers have a very eagles 2024 look about them just to pick your poison, dominating on all sides of the ball manner. Like passing, yeah, everything. You don't want to dominate, though, in the early part of the year. You want to dominate later. So that's why I'm not going to be, I'm not going to be puffing up my chest too much about the Packers.

It's early. We beat two playoff teams. I'm happy about that, but they were both at home. So you've got to factor that in as well. I mean, the Eagles, you're going to be great in the playoffs. You're going to be great at the end of the year. And you're winning these games. So I think when you're not playing great and you're still winning and you're beating good teams,

I think that you should feel really good about that. It does feel like the tush push is going to be gone after this. The tide is turning it because it was my team. We were the hall monitors that tried to get it banned and the rest of the league wouldn't go along with it. But now it feels like everyone's catching on to just how unwatchable this play is. It feels like they're just going to start flagging it every time because you could call neutral zone. zone infractions, like every time they run that play. So maybe they're going to get ahead of the curve and not even ban it, but they'll just make

it so unpalatable to do it that the Eagles won't want to do it anymore. Yeah, it was kind of like with the Chiefs last year, how Pat Mahomes would use that play. Like, you can't hit the quarterback, so it just like kind of fake slide. Right. This is sort of like, I think what might happen with the tush push, because like when you look at the film, it's obviously a neutral zone infraction. And like the first time the Eagles get a. five-yard penalty, they might not do it anymore.

Yeah. Look, it's your play. It works really well, but it's unwatchable. It's like not fun to see that. You know what's going to happen. I mean, all props to Jalen Hertz because you can bench press like five million pounds, and he's the only one that can do it. But, you know, enough of the tush-push.

I just, it's amazing how they're always at the one. It's never at the two or the three. The Eagle somehow always get to the one-yard line. They never score like a four-yard touch. down. I know. Why don't teams just let them score? Let's just spare the tush push, just let them score, save some time on the clock, so we don't have to go through this ritual every time. So yeah, I'm not going to puff my chest out about the Packers. I'm happy about the first two games, but it's early, and you never know what's going to happen. I will say that last weekend I had one of

the great Schadenfreude days of my life as a sports fan just watching, you know, Caleb Williams, ball with the Bears just continuing to be a disappointment. And then J.J. McCarthy, just looking awful for the home opener, for the Vikings against the Falcons. I mean, that was beautiful. And now he looks awful, man. He's terrible. Yeah, and now he's hurt and Carson Wentz is in.

Well, is he really hurt, though? I've heard the conspiracy theory that it's like a soft benching that they're using this injury as an excuse because he's clearly. weigh in and over his head at this moment. So he's got like a little owie on his knee and now they're going to bench him for a little bit. I mean, I don't know. We'll see.

But that was a great shot in Freud day for me. It sucks that the lions had to win because they were playing the bears, but like they just destroyed them so thoroughly and that worm, Ben Johnson, just got humiliated. That guy's a worm, man. Really? I really, I think he's a total worm. I mean, he had this thing. he had a press conference when he got hired

where he was talking about how he's enjoyed beating the Packers twice, you know, every year and he had this a little wormy smile. It's like, dude, that's going to come back to hunt you. Okay, so it's a very, it's a very Packer-specific warminess.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, other people might not see the worm in the same way that I do, but definitely I see him as a big, big worm. Let's pivot out of sportscast here. Let's go to Feudcast here. It's a little bit outside of our purview,

talking about BroCcountry. Although Zach Bryan has gotten some traction in the indie world, indie sites review his records. The other guy in this feud, Gavin Adcock is his name, which does not sound like a country singer name. It sounds like he should be a character in fandom thread. You know, like Daniel Day Lewis's friend,

Gavin Adcock. Gavin Adcock seems like the kind of guy who would make fun of a guy named Gavin Adcock if it wasn't his own name. Right, exactly. Because he looks like, you know, he's got the country guy look. He's like a Colton.

He's definitely a Colton. Yeah, or Cody. Like, why aren't there more singers named Cody in the country world? Or, yeah, like Colt. Like Colt McCoy. Someone should ask Colt McCoy if they can borrow his name

and become a country singer because that's a country singer. Spencer Rattler as well. We have a lot of really good country name, country coded quarterbacks. Like JJ Watt, too. That could be a country name. J.J. McCarthy kind of has a little bit of that to it.

Yeah. Caleb Williams could be kind of the like alt-country guy. Yeah. So there was a video this week of these two dudes getting into a fight or almost getting into a fight. It was some country music festival and they're backstage and they're arguing on either side of a fence. And then Zach Bryan climbs over the fence and he goes through like Barb wire too. And he lunges at Gavin Adcock and then a bunch of people get in the middle of them.

And apparently there's some sort of beef going on. This Gavin Adcock guy who I've never heard of until he started getting into beefs with people. because he trashed this dude Charlie Crockett, who's a country singer I've talked about on the show. He's a good artist. Trash that dude. And he also trashed Beyonce because she made the country record. And I guess he's on tour with Morgan Wallen right now.

So he seems kind of like a scumbag a little bit. And then Zach Bryan, I don't know if you've listened to him. I was on board with his big breakout album, which was American Heartbreak that came out in 2022. that I put that on my year-end list that year. I still think that's a good record. I've liked his music progressively less ever since then. I kind of feel like he's a bit of a one-trick pony.

Like he writes a million songs, but they all sound the same. It's a lot of like mid-tempo acoustic songs that don't really have much production to them, which is fine, but everything kind of sounds the same. And it just feels like diminishing returns at this point. And he also just has a reputation for being like a bit of an a-hole. He gets into a lot of scrapes. And I don't know if he's got some personal issues. It kind of feels like maybe in some instances he's getting liquored up maybe and acting out.

I don't want to speculate. No slander. I'm not saying he did that. I'm just what he allegedly did that. Is that a way to protect myself? Yeah. Yeah. I'm listening to a lot of Pablo Tori finds out about the Clipper situation.

They say the word allegedly a lot. Yeah, I'll say allegedly, or I'm speculating, but I'm not saying it's a fact. So I don't know who the, I don't know who to cheer for here. Like, I love conflicts. Yes. You know, I love feuds. But this one, I don't know, there's not really a winner in this one. Yeah, I read the story.

Like, I've really tried to understand this. And first, the first thing that came to mind is that Zach Bryan trying to jump the fence reminds me of that Simpsons episode where the Lemon of Troy, where Icomer tries to climb the fence and beat up his Shelbyville doppelganger. I read the Stereo gum recap. It seems like Gavin Adcock just wanted to watch the Georgia game, which, you know, points there. This is a situation to me where, I mean, I feel like if I was 20 years old and, like, still in college at UVA, like Zach Ryan would be my guy because he's got kind of that alt country.

I would say kind of Ryan Adams-esque bad boy, like self-destructive, alt-country sort of deal, and he writes a billion songs. he seems like there might be some like mental health substance stuff at play here whereas Gavin Adcock just seems like he seems like a dick who just might have the moral high ground here apparently Zach Bryan pulled a stand like the song stand where this 14 hour this 14 year old kid waited hours in the blistering cold for an autograph and he just said no or whatever um yeah and then he posted about it I yeah he was like you know I you I don't owe you because I think the kid said something to him on Twitter and then he quote tweeted it and said,

I don't owe you an autograph for whatever. And I think he said like, get off my dick. Yeah, GOMD, which I've learned is an acronym that's popular amongst the online. And he said it's like a 14 year old. So yeah, not a great look for Zach. Is this more of like a white stripes von Bondi's thing or like a Jack White Black Keys sort of thing where is it like strictly in the physical realm or is it like the ladder where there's more of a ethical sort of thing happening.

I'm asking you because you're the expert on beefs. Well, it's somewhere in the middle because in the Jack White von Bondi situation, he actually beat the crap out of the Bondi's guy. So it did come to blows. And then in the White Stripes Black Keys, it was, I don't know if Jack White, I can't remember if he ever actually confronted the Black Keys in person. I feel like it was just...

More of a Cold War. Yeah, or interview, like, sub-tweet-type situation where you're talking about these guys being a rip-off. So, yeah, it's not quite either of those things. It just reminds me of, like, the typical high school fight where you have two dudes who want to make a show that they're going to fight each other, but they don't really want to fight each other. Yeah. And it just felt like that. Even though Zach Bryan did climb over the fence and go through the barbed wire. but like you're really going to hit this guy

do you want to deal with the ramifications of that I don't know but like a lot of people hate Zach Bryan there's this really good singer-songwriter John Morland who I think is from Oklahoma who was on Zach Bryan's record and then he recorded a video where he was dissing Zach Bryan calling him a jerk and then Zach Bryan actually took his vocal off the record

which I've never heard of like retroactively, like after the record's already out, like you take the track off. I mean, the song is on there, but I think he used to like erased his vocal track. Did he record over it, like Dave Grohl for the color and the shape with William Goldsmith? Or like Slice Stone with all the groupies that he brought into the studio. He just had Dave Grohl play drum fills where that guy used to sing. It was, no, first he brought to William Goldsmith and then he brought in Dave role so William Goldsmith got denied again. So yeah, I don't know.

Hopefully this continues. I guess this Gavin Adcock fellow, he's got feuds with a lot of people. So he may, who knows who's next? I mean, maybe he's going to, you know, take a shot at our boy Somber. Maybe that'll be the next one. Dude, I'd be into that.

No, there was like a New York Post or New York, not New York Post, New York Times article. It's like, Somber loves, women and he loves them back and I'm sure Gavin Adcock can find ways to uh you know if he is to read the New York times uh find the issue with that I wanted to just bring up something very very quick because it crossed my mind just with the way culture is heading uh and I thought that there's like some Super Bowl uh halftime show speculation is Morgan Wallen like in the running for something like that oh absolutely yeah he's uh probably the biggest recording artist in America right now I mean

his album, I feel like his last couple albums, I've just either been at the top of the charts or among the top chart getters for years. So if we really wanted to do the full vibe shift, it would be Morgan Wallen at the Super Bowl. Because if you have Kendrick Lamar, I guess Morgan Wallen would be like the natural counterpoint on the other side of the aisle. So are people speculating that's going to be walling? No, I just made that up. I saw someone speculating.

There was like a picture and they saw like Frank Ocean, which I mean, look. What? It makes no sense whatsoever. That is like the least compatible with the, like, the ethos of the NFL that I can think of. Yeah. That's a hard no. I don't know where that came from. That's like someone just trying to actualize, you know, like.

their own preference. Yeah, I don't know. I'm surprised that, like, Metallica hasn't done it. Are they, like, I mean, they fit with the NFL perfectly. Oh, absolutely. And they're popular enough and, like, you know, come out, enter Sandman into Sad But True. Probably won't do one.

Won't do one. I mean, I mean, you could just do all black album songs. Because if you did, like... I understand man, sad but true. Nothing else matters. And then... The unforgiven? The unforgiven, too?

No, it's like, what would be the big closer? Probably one. I bet it could, you know, it could be a tribute to our troops, you know, because of the video and everything. But, like... Maybe they just go into, like, the guitar part. There's St. Anger or whatever. You know, maybe it's their cover of Turn the Page. I would personally call for that.

I like that never. The jar just to like kind of levitate, you know, kind of kind of, you know, bring some levity to the circumstances. I mean, or actually they could do, maybe they would start with like master of puppets and then end with Enner Sandman. Maybe that's the big closer. You got to start with Enter Sandman. I mean, like they, have you ever seen Virginia Tech like enter their football stadium, then or Sandman? No. It's like the rival school of where I went.

It's like, it's undeniable pretty badass. There was some picture that used to come out to for whom the bell tolls. Trevor Hoffman, I think. Yeah, that's it. San Diego legend, Trevor Hoffman. That's a good poll, man. That's a really good. He was on the Brewers for a while, too.

I think that's where I saw it in person. No, Trevor Hoffman did Hell's Bells. Who, yeah, whom the Bell Tolls was, roll this chat. Man, I'm looking this up on Wikipedia. Wow. I feel like it was like a really well-known relief picture, though. Yeah, no, I think you're right. I thought it was, it's not Hoffman? That sounds right. Nah, that was Hells Bells.

Oh, okay. Because there's like actual bells. Oh, yeah, here it is. Okay. Hellsbell. Well, that's a good one too. Wow, we're just going to do Metallica cast here. Let's talk about Coachella here. They announced their lineup for 2026 this week, really early. I mean, this is a lot earlier than normal, isn't it? Or is it normally in September? They're saying recession indicator.

I think it's like two months earlier than usual because so many people last year did kind of like the layaway plan. Okay. So they're just giving people more time to pay for their Coachella tickets. I guess, yeah. That's what I'm hearing. So it's taken place in April, April 10th and the 17th headliner on Friday is Sabrina Carpenter, followed by the XX. They're getting back together. Hey.

Apparently. Okay, 9-inch noise. I was very confused by this. Apparently, this is a supergroup of 9-inch nails and some German DJ named Boy's Noise. Do you know about this? Boy's noise is a project I always see on, like, Coachella, like, playing at like 11 o'clock at the Saharanant, where all the EDMX are. I've only learned about this from reading Coachella poster recaps. Cool, I guess.

So yeah, I'm very confused by that. I don't know why it's not just nine-inch nails, but that's pretty cool. Disclosure. Have they gotten back together or had they always been active? I feel like they had that one record 10 years ago, and I haven't really heard from them since. I mean, they put out records. I mean, they're still like just enormous as like a touring thing. Yeah.

You know, they put out like settle, which, I mean, that's like almost more so than like random Access Memories, like a 2013, what it was like to be in clothing stores. They put out four albums. They put one out in 2023, which I think was pretty well regarded. You know, like Larry Fitzmaarisa on here. I feel like he would know all the disclosure albums since settle. I know them too because there are four of them. There's Caracow, which came out in 2015, which is like, they're, like, I wouldn't even

describe it as like Room on Fire. It's more like Andrew W.K's The Wolf. In relation to the previous albums I Get Wet. This is way more disclosure information than I expected. I feel like they get reconed into indie sleaze too, because the indie slees thing, because it's remembered by a historical kids who don't really know what indie sleazy music in that time was.

Instead of the early 2000s, it's like the mid to early 2000s, so like disclosure. I feel like they don't belong. They shouldn't be grouped with the strokes. I don't think. But anyway. But they're going to be like that level of Coachella performer for like the rest of their lives. It's sort of like chemical brothers, you know?

Right. Turnstile, Ethel Cane, Dijon, Teddy Swims, Kat's Eye. You know, it's interesting because Moby is on the second line. And I guess disclosure is bigger than Moby. Yeah. I mean, I just feel like, I don't know. Like, where is he at now in terms of POT? I have no idea.

No. I, but anyway, on Saturday, headliners Justin Bieber. Then my boys, the strokes, right after them. This is Givion. I have no idea who that is. This is another guy who, yeah, another guy who just pops up always on, like, he would be the, Givion, and if I'm pronouncing the name correctly, is the type of person who, if you're, like, your B-market festival would be the headliner along with, like, Chance the rapper

in, like, 2016 or something. something like that. That's what I think of when I see that name. Labyrinth, our boy somber. Hell yeah. Now they're capitalizing every letter. I thought it was lowercase. I don't know. There's some capitalization issues with our boy somber.

David Byrne, that feels like a reach. Reach. Putting him in the second line. I'm sorry. Look, I'm a 48-year-old man. I have a lot of respect for David Byrne. Love the Talking Heads. Not crazy about his recent turn as like this

kind of like jolly grandpa who like sings with young pop singers. It's like Wayne Coyne, man. Wayne Coyne already cornered that market. Yeah, it's a little much. I like him more as like talking heads like weirdo guy. You know, he's a little too warm and fuzzy now. He's wearing like the Super Mario suit and like running in place with Olivia Rodriguez. The thing with Byrne is that he's now almost entirely defined by Stop Making Sense,

which is an incredible concert movie. but the burn before that is a little bit different. You know, like the late 70s burn, it's kind of like a more sort of, I don't know, prickly character, and I miss that guy. He's a little too warm and fuzzy now. And like, are they going to want to hear, I assume, I mean, he's got to be doing Dave talking head songs here.

If he's doing like his new solo record at Coachella, like at 8 o'clock at night, I mean, who's going to be standing for that at Coachella? Well, I've been to Coachella. And like, I don't think this is necessarily going to be the case with David Byrne, but they do have, like, the rock and fun zone for, like, the parents or whatever. You know, when, I mean, granted, like, when I would go there, like, you would see, like, Grinderman or the swans in that, in that time. This is, like, 2013, 14, when, you know, the weekend is playing at the main stage. There would definitely be a, hey, let's give some guitars, you know, we golden voice started as a punk type thing. Maybe that's what's happening here.

But I also feel like it's a kind of a, it's a high floor, low ceiling pick. Yeah, I don't know. I don't see it. Interpol, I love that. Strokes and Interpol together. You're speaking my language with that. Alex G. And then Swalee, that's like the end of that line.

And then on Sunday, Carol G is the headliner. My familiarity with Carol G. Extremely limited. I mean, is this a proper... Coachella headliner. Oh, absolutely. Okay, because I feel a little like Sabrina Carpenter is a little bit of a stretch. Like, Justin Bieber's the only one here that I feel like, okay, I get that as a headliner.

And maybe this is just a sign that Coachella has slipped a little bit because I don't know. I know she's like a big pop star, but as a headliner, I don't know. I don't see it with her. Well, what you need to know about Carol G is that, The most recent thing I had seen of her is her being on The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. Like, Jimmy Fallon just, like, kind of jeopardizing his, like, he's got that look in his eye. Like, I would jeopardize my life to spend time with this woman. It's a very unnerving interview.

But otherwise, yeah, it makes sense as a Sunday night sort of deal. It's maybe not like the popularity level of, like, say, like a bad bunny, but it's probably close. It makes sense to me, you know. But yeah, the headliners feel pretty on point, I guess, because, like, if we didn't have Sabrina Carrey, like, I mean, you know, it would be like, you know, Chapel Rhone or something along those lines, right? See, Chaparone, I see more as a headliner than Sabrina Carpenter. Well, she's got two albums now, so.

And I don't know, I just feel like she just seems bigger to me, Chapel Rone. And one thing I wonder with Coachella, Like you brought up stage coach in our outline and how that's really grown in recent years. As far as I know, Coachella's never booked a country artist. And they've certainly never had a country headliner. Someone could check that for me, but I'm pretty sure that's true. I wonder if we're a year or two away from them booking Morgan Wallin or Zach Bryan or even like a Billy Strings as a headliner.

Well, Billy Strings and like Zach Brom. or a different sort of deal than like a, you know, a Morgan Wallen. And I don't know if, like, Coachella would want to, like, dip into what's very clearly, like, stagecoach, you know, I don't think we're that far off from it. I mean, that's going to happen because country's so big. And I feel like there would be a cachet for certain country artist to headline Coachella. What about a Chris Stapleton? I mean, he's certainly popular enough. Like, why not Wallach?

Because I feel like Wallen is as pop as, like, Bieber is. That's a good point. Yeah. Like Stapleton seems more like a stage coach guy to me. But I could see, like, Wallen is more of a pop guy. So that's why I thought maybe he would work. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, I was thinking more like, oh, Coachella, like,

kind of wants to, like, maintain this, like, sort of rock or even rockist. I mean, and I say that even as they have, like, a full-on pop headliner. Yeah, I think Morgan Wall would do big numbers because when I think about, or when I see in real time the sort of people who Coachella is catering towards, which is, you know, with all due respect, you know, the kind of late 20s, early 30s, more or less basic people that I run into in my, in online, in my, in my real life career, like they're excited about the lineup. I mean, they're not going to go because it's like stupid expensive.

But Morgan Wallen has a lot of crossover with people who would otherwise like Sabrina Carpenter or might otherwise like Justin Bieber. So it makes sense. And like he could bring out Drake and they could do something like that. There would be like a lot of easy like hip hop star crossover. Post Malone would show up for sure to do that song. I wonder like because Post Malone could headline Coachella. Has he not? Probably has.

Yeah. I don't know if like the country version of him has headlined it. I don't know if he was still doing rap music when he when he had like Coachella or if he did. But I don't know. Let's bump up our yay or nay segment here. We usually do this a little bit later in the episode, but we'll do it now. Let's talk about music festivals, Ian. Yay or nay on music festivals, a good value for the money or a terrible way to see good bands.

I'll go first. Yes. I think when we talk about music festivals, we have to distinguish between the big corporate music festivals and the smaller, more unique festivals. I think the big corporate festivals feel a little played out at this point. The lineups are often underwhelming. It feels like it's the same group of artists that just get shuffled between all the big ones. The food and drinks are really expensive. The lines are long.

The porta potty's are filthy. The heat can be oppressive and it just doesn't seem worth it. But these smaller and more unique festivals, you know, the ones that cater to specific genres or audiences, I think those can really be worthwhile. The difference in the end is that I think these big festivals feel like they're programmed by algorithms. And the smaller festivals feel like they're programmed by people. It just has a more handmade personal touch to them. And I personally like the festivals that feel like they're programmed by people.

I'm not into the ones that feel like they're programmed by algorithms. So I'll say yay to the cool, small festivals and nay to the big boring festivals. So to the point of like the lines along, the porthipies are filthy, the heat can be oppressive. Like you're describing in a way Coachella, which I will say like I had gone every single year from 2008-2015 on assignment, didn't have to pay for just about anything. And it's really well run. I will say that much. It's not like a disaster like some of the festivals I've seen. But, you know, I think that I'm actually going to one of these human festivals this October.

It's the first time I've gone to a festival probably in like eight years. years. That wasn't Pitchfork Festival. It's best friends forever. It's in Vegas. It's basically my book turned into a festival and Las Vegas is like an $80 round trip flight. Am I excited about it? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's some event sets happening. But at the same time, I'm thinking, can I be out at a festival on my feet for nine consecutive hours at a time, three consecutive days? I guess I'll find out. But I go back and forth because I like how these algorithmic festivals are a good way for artists to get paid. I think they're also the worst way to see a lot of these bands. These big algorithmic festivals can be a formative experience if you're young and you go

with a bunch of friends. And that's just not been my experience at all since I saw the Y100 festival in 1996 with 311 doubt, no doubt, and filter. Even pitchfork festival became like a stay for the festival a couple hours. But I'm going to go yay solely for the fact that the algorithmic part of it is really helpful for people like myself who exist on the periphery of like pop culture now it's very sports casting about music in a way where it's like yep it doesn't affect me in any real way uh i just like seeing a scoreboard that tells me what's actually happening out there so um spiritually nay i wouldn't go to any big three day festival like hochella or bonnero at this point but um in a way they're kind of necessary. So yay, but like a little bit nay.

All right, well, let's move on to our next topic, which is Bleeds, the new album from Wednesday. We're going to review the album here, but before we get to that, this is your number one pick, Ian, in the fantasy album draft. And just looking at the early reviews so far, it looks like Wednesday's coming through for you. Yeah, it's got an 89 right now tied for my highest with a nerd. Irish by time. It's putting up big boy numbers. I think it's going to stay high 80s. You know, pitch work review hasn't run yet. I'm sure that'll, you know, help boost it. But right now, as things stand in our draft, I need a 77 from Kate LeBahn to seal the deal. All five of your picks are between 82 and 84. Yeah. Fantastic. Like, you just really nailed that like solid

starter. But, you know, I think that, you know, your team's like the 2003-2004 Pistons, I'm a little more top-heavy with Star Power, and that just might reverse what actually happened with the Lakers. I was going to say, like the, like the Pistons won the title with a team like that. I feel like my team kind of reminds me of the Packers last year, where we had a good defense, but we didn't have that one dude that would just push us over the top, which is hopefully what Micah Parsons is going to be. Like, I've got like a lot of good performers. But you have, well, you have nourished by time already. That's like doing amazing.

And then you have Wednesday, which is at an 89, I think that's going to come down a little bit. A lot of the reviews are from, you know, all the European places. But I don't think it will go down much. I would expect it to still be at least 86, 87. So, and I don't think that Kate Laban's going to get a 77. I would expect that to be a little bit higher. So I'm sweating bullets here. Uh, yeah, you just, Wolf Alice made it interesting for a little bit until my Brits came through for me.

That's true. You kind of overthought the British music press thing out there a little bit that just, it was a good strategy. They just seemed like one of those bands. That's like a rubber stamp five stars from the Guardian or the observer or whatever or the skinny. You know, they're just going to love Wolf Alice. Didn't happen this time. But yeah, with Wednesday and Nourished by Time, you're definitely in good shape. Let's talk about this record. This is the new Wednesday album. It's out today, and it's their first record since Ratsaw God, which came out in 2023, and was, I would say, the consensus album of the year for indie acts that year. And certainly, it's one of the more critically acclaimed indie albums of the decade. And I wrote about this for Up Rocks.

You can read it over there. I think it should be up by the time this episode airs. In my review, I make the case that I think Wednesday now with this album has confirmed that They are a defining band, a defining indie band of the 2020s. And I make that case because I think you can look at them and say that they are a core act of not one but two important sub-genres of indie music this decade, which is Shugay's music. And then this sort of country rock revival that's been going on in the past few years. Wednesday has a foot in both of those camps. I think you can definitely say that they've been a big force in both.

of those genres in the last few years. So I think that's a pretty unique accomplishment. It is interesting with them, though, because I feel like there's been a lot of acts that have followed in their wake, and MJ Lenderman would be the most obvious example of this, who, in a way, have overshadowed Wednesday a little bit commercially. Like, if you listen to Manning Fireworks, for instance, I feel like that record, it's hard to quantify this a little bit,

but my sense is that that became an even bigger critical and commercial hit than Ratsug. God. And the thing about manning fireworks, I think this is also, you could also make this case for Tiger's Blood, too, the Waxahatchie record that Lenderman was on, that it's doing similar things to Wednesday, but in a more straightforward way. I think one thing with Wednesday is that they do have, and I think this is a great thing about them, but they do have a more sort of acerbic side to the music where you have, like on the last record, a song like Bull Believer, which I thought was very pointedly picked as the first single from the record,

this eight-minute song that ends with like just screaming and howling. You know, that's a line in the sand. There's going to be people who are going to be on board with that, and obviously there were a lot of people, but it's not something that's going to grab the listener of like the local NPR music station in your town in a way that I think a lot of the songs from Manning Fireworks did, and Tiger's Blood did.

And my sense listening to the new record is that, there is an attempt, I think, to streamline what Wednesday does a little bit. Like, this isn't like a dramatic, uh, reinvention of their sound by any means. It's definitely an extension of Rathsaw God. It just feels like a little smoother. You know, that song, uh, Elderberry Wine. I mean, that was the first single from this record. Just leagues removed from Bull Believer.

This very beautiful country rock song. I mean, really like the most kind of straightforward country rock song Wednesdays ever done. And there's other songs on this record. A song called Candy Breath that I like a lot, which reminds me of like hole at their poppiest in the 90s, like Celebrity Skin era, whole. And there is like a screaming song on this album, but it's also the shortest song on the record, that song Wasp, which is only about like a minute and a half long. And I feel like it's Wednesday doing what they do best, but it feels like maybe a more palatable version. of the band.

There is still the matter of Carly Hartsman's voice, which I think is the love it or hated element of this band. I think people who maybe don't get into Wednesday, I think her voice is maybe the obstacle to it because it's not sort of conventional voice. Kind of goes in and out of key. Her phrasing is a little eccentric. I think it's one of the things that makes this band unique

and it's what I like about them. but I do wonder in terms of like building a bigger audience if that's ever going to impede them a bit. But I don't know. I think this is a great band. Like I said, I think they're a defining indie band of the decade. And this is like a really great record. I'm on board. Yeah.

Not only are they, you know, shoegaze and country rock uniting those elements. But a big part of what, you know, became the narrative Ratsaw God. And it was in the interview I did with the Ringer is that they also bring up. and hey, these guys seem like they'd be cool to hang out with, which feels not totally far removed from the parasocial stuff happening with, like, singer-songwriters. I mean, now that, you know, Carly and MJ are no longer together and MJ's not touring with the band, I think that element is still there.

They seem very welcoming as people, even if, as you, you know, rightfully pointed out, Carly's voice can be a bit more abrasive. I mean, this is like one of the very few bands, which have kind of co-singers where, you know the female singer is like the one that's like more abrasive and like less accessible it's usually like the other way around where the guys got the really kind of tough to deal with voice um well it's like a sonic you thing i think they had a good point kim gordon and thurston more that that's but you're i think you're generally correct with that yeah and yeah wednesday is a band that makes me wish i was like 23 or something like that when this came out because this is at the almost exact intersection of say riloh

Kylie's the execution of all things and maybe drive-by truckers decoration day. It has both elements of like just kind of being a dirt bag, but being a charming dirt bag. There's a little bit of country rock, some obvious indie things going on as well. And I think this stuff would speak to my life more men because, you know, it's about like just being in these kind of messy situations, which I don't feel at the age of 45. You know, you mentioned Tiger's Blood by Waxahatchie. I brought up whether this felt, you know, I think you're more of the Wednesday expert around here, whether this is a next level sort of album or like a Tiger's Blood or like Beach House's Bloom compared to Teen Dream where it's a peak sustaining album.

It's definitely not post-peak. I think they've got the juice right now. I think they're absolutely one of the defining indie rock bands of this time. And I think that there's an interesting passing of the torch with the last big thief. I'm like, Big Thief was a band that people really liked, but they also seemed like they wouldn't be that much fun to hang out with. And that doesn't give you as much cushion when your music maybe takes a dip. So I think Big Thief maybe caught some flack there. I think it's also sonic and lyrical, too.

I mean, when I was talking about their influence, it is musical, but I also think Carly Hartsman as a lyricist has been really influential. Like what she writes about, how her lyrics have a real sense of place to them. Yeah. And how she's drawn to this grotesque subject matter. Like, there's, there's a recurring thing in her songs where she's juxtaposing, like, really sort of banal small town things with something perverse or, you know, dark. You know, there's a song on the record about this high school kid who drowns. And they talk about the vigil and how, like, his dirty jacket was hanging in a case. You know, things like that.

Like, there's lots of details like that. in her songs, and it really adds to the richness of it. The lyrics on this record are interesting. I mean, there's been talk about her writing about the breakup with Lenderman, and there's one song on there that seems very directly tied to that. I think for the most part, though, this is her writing about very Wednesday-like things. I mean, if there's a criticism of this record, is that I think sometimes, you know, that can risk lapsing into caricature a little bit.

Like there's a couple lines on the record where I'm like, okay, that could have been like a Wednesday lyric generator type thing. Like there's a line in one song. Apparently it's based on a true story, but it's about like throwing up in the pit at a death grip show. You know, like, okay, that's like a little, you know, I'm not saying this is self-parody, but like you're teetering a little bit there. But that just speaks to how distinct of a personality this band has and that Hartsman has as a song. So there's a compliment kind of wrapped up in a criticism there. But yeah, just like what she writes about, like, the sense of place. I know, like, that's the thing that really drew me to Wednesday initially.

And I think when Ratsaw God came out, it really felt unique. And in the past few years, I feel like I've heard a lot of other artists pick up that torch and write from especially like a strong sort of southern perspective, which I think is really appealing. And I think Hartzman still is one of the best and most interesting. people working in that vein. Yeah, the Death Grip's lyric like really turned me off.

It was like hearing, like, you know, I bring this up almost every episode. Like the fuck around and find out lyric you heard on like the Boy Genius record where it's like, it's not your, it's not Carly Hartman's fault that a lot of people are writing subpar Wednesday style lyrics.

But, and also, yeah, I guess it's a true story. But I'm like, that one felt like a little bit kind of verging on parody. And just to see people, like, oh, they talked about like death grips. It's like, yeah, like, I think you can do a bit better. And mind you, like, you know, there are some M.J. Lenderman lyrics that might threaten that in the near future as well. Well, and people would always talk about that with Craig Finn as well.

Yeah. You could kind of parse together like a stock Craig Finn lyric. And, you know, it's a double-edged sword. As a songwriter, if you have a style that's distinctive enough to be parodied, I think you've won. because most lyricists, you couldn't do a parody of their lyrics because it's not distinctive enough. So, you know, I think for the most part, she's on point with these lines on this record, despite some maybe occasional clunkers. But I think overall, to answer your question before,

I think this is a sustained peak record. I don't know if it's better than Ratsaw God. I would say it's in the same ballpark. It feels like a record that you could make a case for it being an improvement. Maybe, like I said before, because of how it's been streamlined and maybe, you know, honed a little bit more. Like you feel like they are locking into their Wednesdayness more and more with each record. But, you know, it also doesn't have the sort of undeniable leveling up quality that Retsaw got at. I feel like that record you felt like, oh, this band's arrived.

This record is more like they're still here. which is a hard thing to do and shouldn't be underestimated at all. And clearly, you know, critics are liking the record. I think fans are going to be satisfied with this album. Yeah, I think with this, it'll be interesting to see where this puts them in terms of, like, status because, you know, MJ Lenderman and San Diego just played the venue. This is funny. He played at this venue that his date was right between David Lee Roth and Grand Funk Railroad

and Jackson Brown and Andy DeFranco, whereas Wednesday's out. actually playing this festival I'm going to, and they are on the same line of the festival as the Apple Ced cast and Mates of State below cursive and Marietta. So that's a very... America Coachella, too. Yeah, they are, yeah. But they're pretty small. Yeah, they're on the fourth or fifth line, so like not a huge slot there, but, you know, that'll be a good payday for them. So, so good to see that. Yeah, I don't know. I do think, I mean, I think Lenderman, I mean, just setting aside the quality of the music because we can debate that. But I think Lenderman as like a commercial archetype, it just is an easier thing to market. I think solo acts in general are just easier

to market. It's hard these days to make people care about bands. We're going to talk about geese next week. And a big reason why they leveled up is because Cameron Winter made a solo record. Yeah. If he hadn't had done that, geese, I think, would have a much smaller status. Even though 3D country, their last record, I think is fantastic. But it's just the world that we live in now. People want to latch on to a solo artist more than a band. Even though people understand that Wednesday is Carly Hartzman's project, and I think she's clearly the person most identified with that band.

But yeah, I don't know. The great thing about them is tied up with what I think maybe limits their audience a little bit, which is that it's just there's more abrasiveness in Wednesday than some of their peers. the subject matter, music, and Carly Hartsman's voice. Again, it's not like a smooth voice. And a lot of people are going to hear it and be turned off by it. Same with geese. They're going to hear Cameron Winter and be turned off by it,

whereas other people are going to be like, this guy's incredible. So, you know, being a unique idiosyncratic artist is a great thing from an artistic standpoint, but commercially it can be a bit of a problematic situation. Well, we've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? I don't want to overstate things that are clearly only happening very much online, but our friend of the pod, Eli Anis, wrote a big substack by a song called Cloud Rock,

which consolidates these little threads that are popping up amongst the very online and very influential critical space, you know, like MLBusch, Astrid Sun. things like stuff that evolves out of Dean Blunt you know like 8093 that label Copenhagen I find some of it interesting and it's great that every critic you know every critical generation gets their thing

be it chill wave dance punk something from this world that came out a few weeks ago is this artist named James Kay and the album is called Friend and I'm really into this one and this might interest you because this is a very CD sounding album very CD sounding.

And I mean that because so much of it draws from music that I remember buying on CD at the college bookstore in 1998 or 1999. There's a lot of trip hop going on in there. Early Apex Twin, IDM. There's some Cato Twins, of course. Dot Allison, Beth Orton, and maybe some of those other post come. I'm using air quotes, post-come-down shantusis that appeared on like Chemical Brothers albums leading into, you know, imaging and heap and a lot of the Starbucks stuff.

Basically, the stuff I was listening to in college when I couldn't sleep and I would just put this stuff on hoping that it would just kind of knock me out. But there's some really cool stuff happening here. It's definitely part of a bigger trend that I'm intrigued by, if not totally bought into, because I'm not that online. But yeah, I think you might like this one, because a lot of this stuff is like very cerebral and a little off-putting. But this one is very pure moves with it. Yeah, that sounds cool. Well, I'm going to talk about a very CD album myself. The album is called Clams Casino. The artist is Brian Dunn. Not the artist Clams Casino. That's the name of the record. The artist is Brian Dunn. And he is an artist from New York City. And he is pretty much like

a straight down the middle singer-songwriter, like the likes of which we don't really see much anymore. Yeah, I've seen him compared to people like Springsteen and Tom Petty and Billy Joel. But he's even like more in the pop zone than those guys are. Like I would liken him to like Brian Adams, like reckless mid-80s era. Or that record that John Mayer put out a few years ago called Sobrock, where he was emulating like 80s pop rock. You know, there's some fountains of Wayne in there that I hear. I hear some of like the Ryan Adams like Heartland Rock type records, like that self-titled album he put out 10 years ago. it's just again like and I say this with love like there's nothing really cool about this album it is just

hooks and good songs and he's technically indie rock but like again it feels more like if major labels were trying to find you know the next brian adams in 2025 like they'd be signing this guy up like that's the kind of music he does and look I've always been a sucker for that kind of music especially when it's done well and I and I would argue it's hard to do this kind of music well because again there's not really anywhere to hide. You can't hide behind production or some sort of veneer of mystique. It really just comes down to the songs. Can you deliver? Do they work? And it works on this record. I really enjoy it. I guess it got a good review from Pitchfork. It did. Which surprised me a little bit. It doesn't really feel like a record Pitchfork would go for, but I'm glad to hear that they were into it. So yeah,

man, Clams Casino is the record. Artist is Brian Dunn. Very pleasurable, fun album for the early fall. Yeah, the guy who wrote the review for Pitchfork, Matthew Strauss, he did the Sunday review of Billy Joel's The Stranger. Oh, yeah. And this is, you know, Brian Adams' reckless, Bob Clear Mountain on the boards. Absolutely.

Yeah, does this album sound more like Run to You or like Heaven? Well, I mean, it doesn't, I mean, that run to you guitar sound? I think it's amazing. Like that, and I feel like Ryan Adams, the, not Brian Adams, but Ryan Adams.

I feel like he like tried to incorporate that guitar sound into like all of his Heartland Rock records. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't really separate much between having and run to you. I feel like they're both part of the same stew,

that very kind of boomy, live sounding pop rock type thing. I just, I dig that. So maybe some Bodine's. Can I mention the Bowdeans? beans. You absolutely can. You have to mention the Bowdeans. I got to bring up the Bodines, baby, as a Wisconsin resident. So yeah, Clams Casino, Brian Dunn, check it out. That about

does it for this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie mixtape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.