Indiecast - What Does Radiohead Mean In 2025?

Episode Date: November 14, 2025

Steven and Ian kick off with an announcement about an old favorite/punchline. They also discuss the recent Indiecast Bowl between the Packers and Eagles, the least watchable football game ever (3:41). From there, they have an extended conversation about Radiohead's current European tour, and what the band's standing currently is in the culture (9:59). Then they check in on the recent Grammy nominations, and critique the always unusual nominations in the rock categories (32:33). Then they do a "yay or nay" on The Neighbourhood (46:46).In Recommendation Corner, Ian talks about the Australian dream pop singer Hatchie and Steven weighs in on emo/folk/heartland rock artist Petey USA (51:41).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 265 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and X (formerly Twitter) for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about the new Radiohead Tour and the predictably hilarious Grammy rock music nominations. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. I have the honor of telling him that Tobias Jesso Jr. has a new album out this week.

Ian Cohen? Ian, how are you? I mean, Gooning's all. over the news right now. How could Tobio Gesso Jr. not ride that wave? That's true. He didn't call the album Goon 2 though. I think that would have really capitalized on the gooning trend. He announced this record right before we started recording, so bless him for that. It's called Shine, and it's one of those album titles where there's a space between each letter, and it might be also lowercase. So a double whammy with that one. The new single's called

I love you. Very Tobias Jesso, coded title. And the video stars Dakota Johnson and Riley Keog. Keog? Keog? Is that I say?

Code? Yeah, I'm gonna go with Keog. I think it's like Elvis's granddaughter. Yeah. She's, yeah, she's, anyway. Again, Tobias just coming back, like no time has departed. I feel like he was hanging out

Dakota Johnson 10 years ago, too. Oh, totally. I mean, he's hanging out with actresses. He's writing songs called I Love You. Releasing the press release right before we start recording so we can talk about it. The album is coming out next week. So we'll have some content during a pretty slow time of the year. We take a lot of shots at Tobias Jesso on this show, but I think we got to say thank you to him.

I think he was pretty kind with the release schedule of this album. We knew this was coming. We've talked about this already. There were rumors of a Tobias Jesso Assants in 2025. It's now here. So, yeah, thank you, Tobias, for being considerate in releasing this information in a timely manner. Yeah, you know, that's Tobias Jesso Jr. for you, always coming through in the clutch. And I do appreciate the fact that, you know, the video has, you know, like famous actresses in it.

I mean, that's just really reflective of, like, this guy's whole deal. I mean, since Goon, he's been, like, nominated for Grammys, like, writing for Adele. Like, he's not fronting like this. You know, he's back in the lab and it's 2015. No one really knows who he is. Yeah, you know what? I'm not going to, how, am I going to enjoy this album? I don't know.

But I appreciate the existence of Tobias Jesso Jr. And that means he's come a long way in 10 years and so have I. Yeah, we're going to enjoy talking about it. It's not about enjoying the album. It's about having grist for. the podcast during the holiday season when things are really slowing down. We have this lull in mid-November where album releases are drying up. The music industry is starting to go into hibernation, and we still have a little bit of time before year-end list happens. So who else,

but Tobias Jesso, comes out of whatever L.A. Mansion he's staying in right now to produce a new album for us. Again, I just want to express my gratitude for him from from a content perspective. It's very considerate of him, I think. Speaking of content, let's do a quick sportscast here. We had the Indycast Bowl this week on Monday night football, and it was really funny because I made a big show last week of defending the NFL. You were poo-pooing this game in advance. You were saying, I'm more excited about Bowling Green versus Vanderbilt or whatever college football game you were excited about. And I was like, no, this is going to be a,

a big game and it's going to be fun to watch. And then they play the game and it's the most unwatchable product you could imagine on primetime football. Your Eagles beat my Packers 10 to 7. Although your team looked awful too. Yes. It was like two, you know, dying men fighting on a field and just trying not to die first.

I mean, that's what it felt like. Unfortunately, my team was the one that died first. and I've been on social media this week and my feed is just Packer bloggers and podcasters going at each other about whether Matt LaFleur should be fired. I mean, that's been just dominating my timeline,

which is kind of a nice thing. I mean, considering how the world is, there are many more depressing things that I could be focused on. But my team is in shambles. We can't like get, through like a wet paper bag on offense. We're just awful. Our defense is finally good. I saw this stat the other day that we're the first team to hold another team under 16 points like three

times and lose since 1940. Hell yeah. So 85 years. So we're setting records in that regard. Meanwhile, your boy, A.J. Brown, going on Twitch. Which I love it. He goes on Twitch. I guess he wasn't playing video games himself, like someone else was playing. And he was just, did you see this video? Yeah, that's a real poster right there to like be on Twitch and not even playing. I mean, look, I mean, this is sort of like to me when you see, like you hear like a modern day rapper. like, you know, throw on like an old biggie beat, like, you know,

give me the loot and sicko mode. And it's like, yeah, this is kind of that version of the Terrell Owens time with the Eagles where you would just hear these stories about Terrell Owens, like beating up Hugh Douglas in the naked room butt naked. It just doesn't have the same appeal. It feels like a pale imitation of a very formative experience for me, even though the Eagles did win the Super Bowl and the TEO. This is the more successful version of that.

I know. And I got to say, man, you know. for all the birds fans out there listening to the show and I've heard me take shots at Siriani I got to pay my respect to Siriani he's holding this thing together I mean this seems like a house of cards with the Eagles but you're going to run away with your division because your division's terrible and I don't know you're probably going to pull it together and make a run I mean I don't I thought you guys were for sure going to be the team to beat and you still are you have a really good record but I don't know your your your offensive

is not that good, but it's better than ours, so I can't throw stones. It just reminds me of what it was like to play EA College Football 25 out of the box, and it doesn't matter if you're Ohio State against Kennesaw State. You can't run for more than two yards per carry. I mean, I don't know what's going on with Sequant Barkley. Kevin Petulow, I mean, you think Nick Siriani looks like a buffoon. This guy absolutely has the, you know, recording a YouTube in his F-150 with the weird camera angst. a look about him. I mean, Kellyn Moore, do you really think that you're going to turn the Saints around? They're somehow like $100 million over the cap and have no usable fantasy players.

I think the Eagles are obviously going to make the playoffs. I don't know if they're going to get run out on a rail once they actually play a team. They beat the Rams. So like what am I saying? I think the Lions game will will show us a lot. But I do have to bring up the fact that I know you pick two college teams at random. But Vanderbilt is much must see teams. TV this year. Tiago Pavia is, I mean, that guy's awesome to watch. They're like a top 20 team. Yeah, I know. I just was trying to pick funny sounding college teams, but yeah, I know Vanderbilt is pretty good. As for my team, you know, I've seen people, the aforementioned Packer bloggers and podcasters, I've seen people make this analogy to our 2010 season, which was the last time we

won the Super Bowl. And there are a lot of parallels for the Packers where, you know, we lost our top tight end. We had a bunch of injuries. We lost some. some really bad games, like early in the season. And then we got hot at the end and we won, including beating the Eagles in the playoffs on the road. Like, we were a road team that year, had to beat three teams on the road and then obviously go to the Super Bowl. So that's the thing that's giving me hope.

For whatever reason, in the LaFloor era, the Packers are slow starters in the season and also in games. So this is around the time. that year, the year before last, like when Jordan Love had that great run where we made the playoffs and he beat the Cowboys, he started to get hot around Thanksgiving and we played the Lions on Thanksgiving and we played the Lions on Thanksgiving this year. So that's the thing that's preventing me from panicking. Of course, we play the Giants this weekend and you think, okay, this will be the game. We start to get our swagger back.

Last time we played the Giants, Tommy DeBito beat us. So I'm not feeling confident. And we're playing James Winston this week. So there's some definitely, some Tommy Cutlitz energy, I think, with James Winston. So I'm not feeling, I'm not going to chalk that up as a W at all. We've got to grind that one out. So we'll see what happens.

I don't know. Maybe there'll be another Andy Casper bowl in the playoffs, though. You know, can happen. Yeah, it'll be like... Happen last year. It'll be 13 to 10 or something like that, you know. Oh, Jesus. As long as we have 13.

I'll be happy with that. Let's talk about some actual music now. I wrote this week for Up Rocks about the current Radiohead tour. If you're not aware, Radiohead is back on the road. For the first time in seven years, they're doing 20 dates in Europe. And it started last week with four shows in Madrid. Then there was a little bit of a break. And then today, the day that this podcast goes up, they're back on the road.

And they're going to be playing, I believe, in Italy. And I wrote about this. I've been following this tour from a distance. I'm not obscenely rich, so I wasn't able to go to Europe to see any of these shows. But I'm doing what they call in the jam world a couch tour, not a pure couch tour. A pure couch tour is where you go on nugs and you get the live stream and you watch the show as it's unfolding. Like you're there, but you're on your couch. Radiohead isn't live streaming these shows, so I'm following them via YouTube videos.

and stray recordings that I'm that friends of mine are slipping me. Have you ever done a couch tour? Is that at all interesting to you, Ian, to like follow a band from show to show and and see how the tour goes? Well, first off, is radiohead on nugs. Nugs.net at this point? No, they're not. And I feel like that would be a place for them, but I don't know if maybe they'd want to have

their own thing set up. They want their own version of like the fish app. because Fish has their own app maybe there'll be a Radiohead app at some point although they don't tour enough to justify that yeah I mean radio like you know Radiohead's slipping when like waste isn't his own app

or something like that they I mean that's the band that should have an app by this point but I mean that's true yeah well I mean Radiohead is maybe the only band I've done anything jam band coded with because there was I think the first thing I ever bought on eBay was a Kid A era live bootleg

That was super cool But beyond that I've never done a couch tour Because the bands I love enough To have done a couch tour for Are certainly not doing Couch tours The only thing I could think of

Is potentially the cure You know Like I mean But they like tour the country And I could see them Because you know they might play a different Three Hour show each night But beyond that

I think it just speaks to how I mean a major difference between our listening habits is that I see the live version as a live experience. Like, I don't know what the most frequently listened to live album I've ever had. It might be Nirvana unplugged in New York, and I haven't listened to that in like 20 years. It's made just, like, accumulated from me hearing it in high school. But, I mean, I would do a couch tour for radio head, because what I do know about their recent touring regimen is that if they do come to America, it's only going to be L.A.

and it was like Taylor Swift level on Ticketmaster trying to get those tickets. There's no way I'm going to be able to afford it. No way I'm going to be able to make it happen. So, yeah, I just might do that for this particular tour. Yeah, and again, there hasn't been like a recent tour regiment for them because, like I said, they haven't toured in seven years. I mean, the last time they played America was 2018. And like you said, they played mostly big cities.

They were in L.A. I know they were in Chicago. That was their big Midwest stop. I'm trying to remember. I feel like they always play Kansas City for some crazy reason. They haven't played Minneapolis where I live in a long time. I feel like they had maybe not since OK computer era. So touring in America definitely not very extensive for them in any recent era.

But in the column I wrote, you know, I was writing about how they sound, which I think they sound like pretty good for the most part. I mean, it's radiohead. But it is an interesting period for them overall. And I wanted to get your take on this because they are a band that I think for all intents of purposes, like does not really exist anymore. I mean, they did this interview with the Sunday Times recently. It's a, I think it's in, I don't know if that's an English paper or Ireland. I don't know. Do you know the Sunday Times?

I think, I think it's Irish. but uh i think it's irish yeah this is like the skinny what a what a get for them i mean like i'm just trying to think of like the person who's like oh by the way i have like i was somehow able to like wrangle this uh you know imagine like coming to your editor with that pitch it's like oh yeah i think we're going to run with that one so they're a british paper just to clarify i just i just googled it as you were talking but anyway they did this interview was a band interview and uh most of the guys in the band were doing the mostly PR stuff, but then

Ed O'Brien talking about the band was pretty candid, and he said that after the last tour in 18, that he was very close to quitting the band because he said the shows were good, but, and this is a quote, you know, I enjoyed the gigs, but hated the rest. We felt disconnected, fucking spent. Like, that is, that was his quote.

He said that they were fucking spent after that tour. And if you just look at their output in the last nine years, I mean, they haven't put out an album since the Moon Shaped Pool in 2016. And then if you take a wider view, really since Hale to the Thief, like 22 years ago, they put out like three records in 22 years, as opposed to the first 10 years of their recording career, 93 to 2003, there were six records. So twice as much music and, you know, half the time. And so they are this kind of aging rock band that has not been a creative entity in a long time. But at the same time, you know, they are a band that if they put out a record tomorrow, it would be treated like

an event. You know, and you can't say that about other middle-aged rock bands that have been more active, your Wilco's, your spoons, your Lola tangos, all really good bands. But their latest work, it's not an event, right? I mean, do you agree with that? Like, If there was a new Radiohead album that dropped tomorrow, like a surprise drop, like that would be a big deal. It would be like a break the internet thing. I mean, it would be the biggest thing for that week and the week after that. It would let loose the typical every month, hey, let's rank radio head albums.

It would be a real stimulus package for, you know, people of our age, but also for younger people because what I've noticed is that, you know, amongst the 18 and 19-year-olds I find myself around. and, you know, my line of work, they're still a band that has, that holds weight, you know, like people are still going through a radio head phase as a right of passage. You know, it was a 19-year-old who told me about the kid-A video, the kid-A video game that's available on PS5.

It's not really a video game. It's not, you know, but it's not, it's more just like a, you walk through this art museum type thing where, while Kid A and Amnesiac song plays. But, yeah, there's still, there's still like a band that they're not like I don't know like a fossil they are still like an

active part of the canon yeah they're a multi-generational band they are what the Beatles or the Pink Floyd were for people our age and in some ways still are I mean the Beatles I think are still a band that a lot of people check out when they're younger but yeah radio head has graduated to that

and the album still would be an event even though we've been drowning in like albums by the smile in the last few years which Those albums, which I think are good to like really good, those are not events. You know, even though the two principal guys are in the same band, it's definitely a different sort of perception that those records get. So you're right, they do have this generational appeal. And there was the TikTok thing earlier this year where letdown, re-entered the Billboard charts. I mean, not re-entered, it entered the Billboard charts.

It wasn't a hit in 97 when OK computer came out, but it became a hit this year because of TikTok. So you have that thing going on. And then you have this other thing going on, which I don't want to get too much into because it's a very complicated thing. And it'll take out the rest of this episode. But the whole Johnny Greenwood BDS controversy where he's collaborating with Israeli musicians, he's playing shows in Israel, going against the boycott that has been promoted there that a lot of other artists have followed. In a way, it kind of reminds me of the Paul Simon Graceland controversy from the 80s where the argument from the artist side is basically art can trump politics that if you can bring people together in art, then that is a way to bring about change politically. I think there is some validity to that, and I think there's also some skepticism that should be held of that sort of thing. I don't know if you want to weigh on this at all.

Yeah, I mean, one of my formative experiences with Radiohead, and as a matter of fact, one of the formative experiences of my life was being on an Israeli teen tour in the summer of 1997 and, you know, buying an Israeli record store version of OK computer and listening to, you know, subterranean homesick alien in the desert. So, but yeah, I think, you know, the radio has the new Pink Floyd. Those comparisons were already always in the air. But, you know, now it takes on. a different sort of tone because

when you think about Pink Floyd now, you think about Roger Waters and his particular politics and how that colors things. But, you know, I think the interesting thing about let down is that I think they opened their first show with that. Yeah, I'm wondering if they feel like,

okay, this is like the new creep. Let's get it out of the way. I don't know if they feel that way because I think it is representative of, you know, where they were at more so than creep but um yeah and another thing that you that that that got me to thinking you know from your article and also the release of the hail the thief live album earlier this year are we having like a hailed a the the thief as sons because it was always seen as like you know like a prime hour

radio head album but kind of a lesser one um you know kind of like the b tier yeah it's between the double shot of kid a and amnesiac and in rainbows which i think And Rainbow's for a lot of people is their favorite record. And then Kidd A has such a sort of landmark reputation. And then Hale to the Thief, in comparison, feels like, oh, it's them being a rock band again. But yeah, I thought it was interesting because in these sets, they've been doing a lot of Hale to the Thief songs. And they sound awesome. And that live record, by the way, which is a, it's not just one show.

It's a collection of recordings from like 03 to 09. Outstanding live record. Super good. If you are into live albums and you haven't heard that, I would definitely recommend it. Yeah, one thing I observed just from listening to the recordings of the show is that I really feel like the best material from this tour, just in terms of like how they're performing it, is Hale of the Thief and After. So in rainbows, King of Limbs and Amunshay Pool, like the 90s stuff sounds like a little creaky, I think, live. And, you know, look, there was another quote in that Sunday Times article that

that stood out to me where Colin Greenwood said, you know, this music doesn't, I'm paraphrasing here a little bit, but he said, this music doesn't have a lot to do with us anymore. And I thought that was such a poignant and honest quote because just think of yourself nine years ago or even seven years ago, like the last time they toured, how much your life has changed. Can you imagine revisiting a job that you stopped doing in 2018 now? Obviously being in Radiohead, it's not just like a regular job. But, I mean, there is something, you know, these guys have had lives.

They have families, you know, they've got their houses and their kids and their cars and their wine cellars and whatever else they have. Obviously, Tom and Johnny have a whole other band that they've been busy with. So to come back to Radiohead and then to play songs that you wrote and recorded in your 20s and also just being an older band where, you know, if you're playing the Ben's or you're playing planetellics, you know, they still sound good, but when you listen to the recordings, it's like, oh yeah, it's lagging a little bit. You know, these guys are in their mid-50s.

and the more recent material, even though some of that stuff is like pretty sort of swiftly paced, I don't know, it just, it kind of feels more in line with who they are now and maybe if they're going to take out, you know, karma police or something,

you know, I wonder how much that resonates with these guys at this point. Yeah, I mean, if I were seeing Radiohead, I mean, don't get me wrong, like King of Lim,

moon-shaped pool, those aren't my favorite, but if I were to see them live now, I'd be so much more excited to see those songs live because I just kind of want to see if they take flight live in a way that they didn't for me on the record. I do not need to see them try to run through, you know, like bones or my iron lung, which are funny because it's, I mean, the Ben's such a funny album because I've always wondered how people would receive it if Radiohead just never made OK computer. It's, you know, it's an awesome record and also why I think people are willing to like overlook some of its flaws. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely more of a alt rock record than Radiohead has such an elevated sort of way that people talk about them. That is an interesting thought experiment.

Like, what if Radiohead was like placebo or something? Or, you know, I'm just trying to think of other Brit rock bands. Or like Swade even for that matter, you know? Yeah, in a way it's like their most sort of swaggy rock record. even more than like, okay, computer, which has a stateliness to it. But the bends has more of a, you know, people getting drunk late at night type vibe, more than any other radio head record, I think. Yeah.

So that's one of the great things about it. But yeah, they're all, you know, like high and dry. Not the most intelligent song, perhaps. But if you're 16 and you have had your heartbroken, that's a good song to listen to. Yeah, the reviews of that album from back that, I actually found out a lot about the reviews from the Benz while I was writing about the self-title Blink 182 album for whatever reason. And yeah, those people were saying like, hey, man, these guitar tones are like super cool. I love the effects.

But what's up with the guy who's singing? What's up with his lyrics? This guy's holding them back. Yeah, I know exactly. You know, there are, it's funny because this has resurfaced a little bit with geese, how they've been compared to Radiohead. and I've seen people complain about Tom York's vocals via complaining about Cameron Winter's vocals. I've seen people say like,

oh, I love the music, but the vocals I can't stand. And it's a little weird for me to consider, oh, yeah, people don't like Tom York's voice. But a lot of people don't like his voice. I've always just considered him one of the great singers. And I will say about this tour, his voice, I think, is remarkably well preserved. He's still singing these songs, which don't seem easy to sing.

And, I mean, he's obviously been out on the road pretty consistently over the years and making records, but it's very well preserved. He's not lowering the keys as I'm sure someone out there, like the radiohead Muso might point out, oh, this key is lowered on this particular song, but just from a layman's point of view, it doesn't really seem like that. one thing I wanted to bring up to you and this goes back to what we were talking about before about how Radiohead

doesn't feel like a fossil you know that there are if you really compare them to any other 90s rock band they stand alone in a lot of ways in that regard and I'm talking about like bands at their level I'm not talking about the more indie oriented bands like your your letangos or even spoon

but like an arena rock band like placebo Pasebo, exactly. But this tour is a greatest hits tour, essentially. They're not supporting an album. It doesn't seem like they're even thinking about making an album or not planning to in any kind of serious way. I think if you look at this tour cynically or maybe just honestly,

it does seem like a cash grab. I mean, they could be doing more shows, I guess. And I would expect them to probably be doing more shows. but it's not a band that's gotten back together for any sort of discernible creative reason. You know, they're back together to play songs that people love. And just to be clear, if this tour comes to America, I'm going to want to go see it.

But is there reason to think that Radiohead has sort of exited their creative period and are now in that sort of rolling stones we're going to play our songs live and no one's going to really expect us to be brilliant anymore. I mean, we were just saying if there was a new Radiohead album, it would be an event. And I think people would expect it to be good. But should we put those expectations to bed?

Like, is that over for this band, you think? No, I think what we're going to see is Radiohead, new album, Super Bowl halftime show, 2027. You heard it here first. That'd be amazing. I mean, no, but I'm serious. And I'm not even saying that that's the case, but I think that those questions are worth asking right now about this band. Like is something over definitively you think with Radiohead at this point? Oh, absolutely.

I mean, Tom York just seems so much happier with his ponytail and his band, the smile, like playing the short scale bass or whatever it is and DJing. And you have to, it's just such an amazing thing to think about, like, they could make millions by just going out there, phoning it in, playing Radiohead songs. And it's like, nope, I don't feel like doing that. And I think about just like how often I do things or write things for like, you know, an extra $200. But like they can say no. It's a very.

Well, they're doing that right now, though, maybe. I mean, they're kind of, they're kind of. I mean, I'm not saying they're phoning it in, but they are kind. I mean, because what other reason are they touring right now? You know, it's kind of a like a, like a trial balloon maybe. For what? Uh, maybe, maybe, hey, if the, if the mood catches, like we can tour, like, like, they can do it in a friendly confine in Europe and it's like okay if this was like terrible as it was

apparently eight years ago then you know we could stop it there but you know if it's fun uh you know maybe the creative juices gets sparked again you need that phil selway drumline when uh you know tom skinner won't do um who knows i mean i feel it i don't feel it's like ed or like Who are the guys who make solo albums? The guys you, Ed and Phil Selway make the solo records, right? Really? I mean, Colin is the one who stayed the quiet. But yeah, Phil does, Ed does, and then Tom and Johnny together.

I mean, and again, I'm not criticizing it. I just think that the way we think about this band maybe has to be modified a little bit, because they aren't a band that you would think of, like, oh, they're just touring just to tour, or just to make money. I feel like they're in that phase now. I think the charitable way or, I mean, even the way I would look at it is that similar maybe to how Pavement is touring at this point. The difference is that Pavement actually broke up and Radiohead didn't officially break up, but I feel like they unofficially broke up.

Because with Pavement, I don't feel like anyone's expecting them to make an album ever again. I think the hope with them is, oh, they're going to just tour festivals or they're going to do a tour maybe every single. three or four years and we're going to go see it because pavement's awesome and they're still great live and this is better than not having pavement at all. I feel like that is where Radiohead is. I would honestly be surprised that they made an album again. I think that's probably over for them. Yeah, I have no expectations for any sort of music. The only thing that even seems within the remote realm of possibility and again, this sounds. silly, but they have done it before is like, I don't know, they play Coachella.

Yeah. That's the best we can hope for, I think. Yeah. Well, why is that the best we can hope for that they play Coachella? Isn't the best we can hope for as a tour? Yeah, you're right about that. Yeah, I don't care about them playing, because I'm not going to Coachella. The best would be, oh, they played my town.

Yeah, they played San Diego or something like that. But I mean it in the sense of like a big event, you know, like something that is. is something to hang one's hat on. I mean, an American tour would be awesome if it was one that extended beyond the New York, Chicago, LA axis, fantastic. But I think it's far, I think it's the best we could hope,

shy of like, like, an album or like just something that, like, speaks to, hey, this is like something that might lead to something, you know? All right, well, we'll see. I don't know. I hope it's more than a Coachella. I hope, I mean, Riot Fest.

I'll take a Chicago show if they play several and it makes a little easier to get tickets than, because I'll drive six hours to go see them in Chicago, maybe for the last time. I mean, I'm kicking myself that I didn't go in 2018. I don't know why I didn't go. There was some conflict that I couldn't make it. But hopefully I can catch them

if they come back to America in 2026. All right, well, let's get to our favorite topic here. We're talking about Radiohead. we had to punish ourselves to talk about that band because, you know, we don't really like Radiohead here at all. I'm being sarcastic, of course. But let's talk about what we really love to talk about, which is the Grammys. The Grammys were announced last week. And do we want to get into the top categories?

I mean, I definitely want to talk about the rock categories because that's always a fun thing to dive into. But do you have anything to say about, like, Song of the Year or Record of the Year? I mean, the obvious question is like, who is Leon Thomas and what have you done with John Batiste? You know, like, every year there's like a guy like Leon Thomas. And I'm going to assume I'm not going to fact check this. I know that's like irresponsible. But I'm going to assume it's like kind of like a soul artist, maybe like a war and treaty type thing. But yeah, it's like straight to the top.

Other than that. So we should say Leon Thomas, one of the nominees for album of the year. for his album Mutt, which we all know and love. And I don't think he's in the other top categories. I'm just looking here quick. He's in Album of the Year. And the other nominees include Tyler the Creator,

Kendrick Lamar, Lady Gaga, Clips getting the nomination. Sabrina Carpenter, Justin Bieber, and Bad Bunny. I really don't have any strong opinions about any of those artists. Leon Thomas, by the way, 14 million monthly listeners on Spotify, so that's not nothing. Seems a little small in this company.

I honestly thought they meant Leon Bridges when I saw the name because Leon Bridges is a NeoSoul artist. I think I'm not even going to say what Leon. I've never heard of Leon Thomas, but that may say more about me than about him. Yeah, I don't know. It's an interesting. I really have nothing to say about the top nominees. You got Dochi up here. You got, again, more Suprina Carpenter, Billy Ilish, of course, a lot of Gaga.

It feels like they want to annoy Gaga this year. Yeah. I also wonder if, you know, just the way I, at least people in my sphere talk about anxiety, the Dochi song. Is that going to be like in five years where there's like, you know, the worst song of all time conversations? Not like the worst song, but like the song that I heard all the time. And it just annoys the life out of me. I feel like that might get there. Well, again, I mean, we talked about this when Dochi really started blowing up last year when she was on a bunch of award shows.

And then she ended up doing really well in year-endless. I do feel like the type of hip-hop that she does, the more theatrical hip-hop where it's really based on these sort of grand production numbers that you see on award shows that end up going viral on social media and people. people saying, wow, this is amazing. And it's really more about the visual a lot of times than the music. I feel like that stuff never ages well. You know, whether we're talking about like childish Gambino, this is America. Like that, just be an example of that. Like that music video, very well done.

I still think that music video is like pretty engaging. But the song, like you don't really remember the song. But people love the video so much that they, I think that got record of the year, I'm pretty sure. back in whenever year, 2018, 2019. But yeah, I just feel like that sort of music, people end up having buyer's remorse with it

five or ten years later. Chance the rapper, of course. Chance the rapper. Some of the Janelle Monet stuff, I feel like, from the 2010s, has a little bit of that, too. She's more on the R&B side, less hip-hop. But, yeah, I don't know.

We'll see. I don't want to, to condemn, but you feel like the ladies in the office are turning against Dochi. Is that what you're saying? Like the office ladies are turning against Dochi? I mean, they might. Actually, no, they're not the types to go against them. I don't know. Like, I think that they're going to love whatever it is that Dochi puts out, you know, especially since like God, like, I don't know what's happened to Lizzo. Did she put out of them? Oh, yeah, Lizzo. That's another one. Yeah. She was on SNL, I feel like, last year. So there was probably some new,

Lizzo? Yeah, where's Lizzo here? I think he put out a mixtape recently this year. What is Lizzo, if not Grammy bait music? So she's not getting on here. But speaking of Grammy bait music here, we're doing a segue to the rock categories, the rock metal and alternative music categories. Is it fair to say that turnstile now is the new foo fighters? Because they pulled five nominations this year. And they're in the rock, metal, and alternative music category. They're covering all the flavors of rock music. The three flavors. You got your rock, you got your metal, and you have your alternative. Turnstile covering all the bases. And look, I love turnstile. Their record, never enough. That's going to be on my year end list. So no shots

at them. But are they the new sort of, we need a rock band, so we're going to nominate them? and, you know, like, were the foo fighters, where they probably still are, there was no new foo fighters music that I'm aware of. So is turnstile now, like the, like the emerging foo fighters of a new generation? I mean, if not like foo fighters, I think they are indicative of like, how like metal bands get like kind of grandfathered in and they just, no matter what they do, they're like, they're not that old though. I know, but like they're, they're like the young band and now they have 10.

tenure, I think is the right word. So Slipknot was there at one point. Yeah, but deaf tones are there. They're more, no, they're more food fighters-ish, though. Oh, totally. Because to me, again, they're covering all the three flavors of rock music here. Because that thing you're talking about, like, like, deaf tones got a nomination.

Was that an alternative music or was that in metal? I think it was alternative, which is hilarious because it's alternative and not metal, but this is the one that them and Lincoln Parker in, you're kind of duking it out with Hyam, you know, just like everyone, you know, expected to happen in 2013. I mean, I think Turnstile is going to be a band that will always pop up in the Grammys going forward. I mean, like, I don't think they have the same sort of ambassadorship for rock music as food fighters in that, like, oh, you know, they're going to get nominated and they're also going to perform at every single thing, but they're like apparently the first band ever to be, uh, to do the rock

alternative and metal nominations. Apparently no band's ever done this before. I bet if they were willing to do the Grammys and it was you were pairing turnstile with like young blood and, uh, you know, some other, you know, like, like somber or something. If they were willing to do that, they would be on the Grammys. I, I feel like they're, they're withholding themselves. By the way, turnstile and Hym and Deptones, it's a rock album. Oh. Alternative. And also in that category.

So you got Deftones, Heim, Lincoln Park, Turnstile, and then you have my favorite Youngblood, who, again, the industry plant thing, I don't really believe it, but he's one of those people, along with like role model and somber, who are all part of the hairy styles tree. I have this theory that every young male pop. star right now who is sort of doing rock music or sort of doing country music is in some way derived from Harry Styles because they either look like Harry Styles or they're styled like Harry Styles or they have some kind of flavor in their music that is very Harry Styles reminiscent. Like he is the Elvis of Crappy Male 2020s pop rock. Like that's Harry Styles right now.

And Youngblood, who I feel like he got some goodwill because he did that Ozzy tribute concert. And he sang changes and it was like pretty good. His music is awful though. And he's all over these nominations. He's like he's another one. Sleep token. Sleep tokens in the metal. Spirit box.

Never heard of them. Turnstile. Yeah. Spirit box is like one of those like them and sleep token. I mean, like there's big differences between what they do. But Spirit Box is absolutely one of the metal bands that is going to be in the metal category for the rest of their lives. You know, they're at that Mastodon sort of strata of the career. We got ghosts in there too.

Yes, them too. Definitely. They're locked in. Amel and the Sniffer's nominated for Best Rock Performance. You should not be doing that. Should also mention that Wetleg got a album nomination for Best Alternative album. I feel like they're sort of in the same category. Email and the Snippers, they're doing this punk rock thing.

I believe they're also British. They're Australian. They're Australian. We keep misidentifying. Is it British, Irish? Is it Australian? Our international listeners are going to be upset. Email and the Snippers, is there anyone under the age of 45?

You think that likes that band? I think that, yeah, I think you set the bar a bit too high. Now, is there anyone under the age of 35 who likes them? I just know Emil and the Sniffers is a band that is really appreciated by the same demographic who likes idols. They have this, you know, they have this like presentation and this sounds like, oh, yeah, this is like real rock and roll, real pub music. And you know what? Maybe this music is good. It is so not for me.

But, you know what, like it exists with the Grammys. I'm sure like Iggy Pop thinks they're awesome. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's like whatever, you know, like you can do a lot worse. My favorite thing, you know, it's not quite rock, but Dan Auerbach still got nominated for Best Producer after the year he had.

Like, that's how strong the Grammy, like, Kostra Nostra is, you know? I mean, you know, all due respect, he is a good producer. I think that his production work has been consistently pretty good, especially in that Americana bluesy rock space he's pretty good at that they did one of the albums that they noted was the Black Keys record

for him producing which was no rain no flowers which honestly if you would ask me to name the last Black Keys album I could not have done it like no rain no flowers that's a band that I might want to write about at some point they are a fascinating band to me I'm maybe the only critic that would say that

But I do think that they're interesting. Just their trajectory at this point where I feel like we forget how big they were in the early 2010s. I mean, they were on that foo fighters level for a couple years. And then I don't really know what happened. They just went into this thing where, well, I don't know. I don't need to go on a monologue about the freaking black keys at this point. Yeah, I don't know. Look, this show is going to be broadcast

In a few months And then we're going to get a bunch of think pieces Saying, oh, the broadcast was better than we expected And, you know, that, which I've written myself. So I'm not, you know, I've written that same thing too. But yeah, I don't know. There's not a lot of juice here, though. Maybe I'm wrong.

This seems like a very flat year for the Grammys. Yeah, it's chalk. And, I mean, maybe we'll get like a weird upset. But I think the Grammys have been very Grammy-ish of late. And so, yeah. I mean, they're trying to do better, but, like, I do feel like a lot of times they've got an album or two or three that felt impactful. And honestly, a lot of times it's a Taylor Swift album. But, you know, even, you know, like the Beyonce record, Cowboy Carter or you've got, you know, I don't know.

I can't even think of other Grammy Bate records. I feel like it's either Beyonce or Taylor Swift or Billy Eilish sweeping the Grammys like five years ago. but I don't know. It feels like Gaga's time. Gaga's time or they're, I guess Sabrina Carpenter has shooters. I mean, Bad Bunny is just going to do the Super Bowl halftime show

around the time of the ceremony, so maybe he'll parlay that into a win. I mean, he's obviously a big star. I don't know. Do you have any experience with Bieber at all? I've never really listened to him at all. I can't take that guy seriously. I've listened.

I've heard Love Yourself and like, you know, Target many a time. But yeah, that's about the size of it. Otherwise, I mean, it was not that long ago. It was this year that, you know, that album's swag came out. And like, that's the album that's nominated. Yeah. And this everyone's like, oh, man, this is, you know, this is like a renaissance for him. It's like he's really establishing himself as this, like, creative force.

And look, man, again, not for me. if like this is your career to write about pop music you are absolutely more in the right to talk about Justin Bieber than myself. I just think of, you know, the definitive Justin Bieber work is, and I think you'll agree with me, pop star never stop, never stopping, you know?

Yeah, I was just looking at the album credits for swag and guess who's in there? Our boy Tobias, Jessi, Jessio, Jr., baby. He's in there. Good for you, Tobias. Yeah, I don't know. I just said that I find the, downfall of the black keys interesting, so maybe I shouldn't throw stones.

But I just can't give a shit about Justin Bieber. Just can't do it. All right, enough Grammys. Let's get to our Yay or A segment. This is for the kids, for the IG users, for the TikTok people. This week we're talking about a 2010's indie pop mainstay, The Neighborhood. They have a new album out this week called Ultrasound, and I guess it has like a bunch of parentheses around it, like maybe three or four sets.

And that also might be lowercase. I don't know, man. What are we doing with all these weird formatted titles? Can we get over this? It's like, what are you? Are you, Mayor James Keenan here? Can we get beyond this? Anyway.

They have a new album out, ultrasound, first album in five years. So we figured this is a good opportunity to do the yay or nay on the neighborhood. The neighborhood, important 2010's indie pop act, or embarrassing pretty boys. The neighborhood, yeah or nay, I'll go first. I think we have to establish some like bonafides with this band. The neighborhood, believe it or not, has one of the most streamed songs of all time

with the song Sweaterweather, which has been streamed more than 4 billion times that's a billion with a B. They have another song called Daddy Issues that's been streamed nearly 2 billion times in another softcore that has 1.5 billion streams Again, these are all on Spotify. As you can tell from the song titles, this band does have sort of like a bad boy, sort of sexy dirtbag thing going on.

So I guess that was appealing to people back then. In the early 2010s, I feel like they had this rivalry with the 1975 where they were both these poppy rock bands that looked and sounded a little like boy bands. I think we could say that the 1975 went on to have a more impactful career, although their biggest songs can't touch. those monster streamers that I just mentioned. When I listen to their material, to me, I can appreciate the craftsmanship going on. And certainly the production's good. It's catchy. Like, it sounds good.

I get why this music would work really well on any variety of playlists. And I imagine that if I was in high school or maybe better, like, junior high school, like when this band was really cooking, that they would have, like, a lot of nostalgic appeal for me. I mean, I'm sure these songs were played to death at school dances back in the day. But unfortunately, I wasn't a junior high in the early 2010s. I was in my 30s. So take that as you will, as I render a verdict on this band. Again, I can appreciate the craftsmanship of what they're doing.

I think whoever they're working with is very skilled. But they do seem like a band that's better at making like chilled out jams than like overall like strong albums. and I don't know. They just seem flimsy to me overall. So I got to lean on the sort of embarrassing pretty boy side, and I have to vote nay on the neighborhood. All right. So as far as my bona fides go, you know,

let's flash back to 2012, 2012, 2013 or so before the first 1975 album. And I saw the 1975 do a co-headlining show with these guys in L.A. And it's, you know, for critics, it's kind of a real Peyton Manning versus Ryan Leaf sort of thing. Like, you can't believe at the time there was really a debate about which of these bands had a brighter future. But, you know, the neighborhood eventually became a version of the 1975 if they were fronted by Machine Gun Kelly or G. Easy.

And yeah, it's the fourth most stream song on Spotify ever, like ever, all time, all the songs ever made. Look, they obviously suck. But with bands like this, I always hope for a music critic who was, you know, like you were saying 15 in high school or middle school during their peak to come around and explain. why they're actually the Bush or like the Stone Temple Pilots of their time. And I actually ended up reviewing their 2018 self-titled out, which was a delightful experience. Because I think a lot of the subtext of those songs were then like self-pitying for not having a second hit, which obviously changed. I also learned their fans are called hoodlums. And they covered why geez me and my bitch for a Red Bull session.

And it's one of those rap covers where it's like, oh my God, they're not going to say the N word, are they? They come really close because they leave every other lyric. but they avoid that on the chorus. The problem with these guys is that their whole deal is buck cherry if it sounded like the weekend. But their presentation is buck cherry if they took themselves as seriously as the weekend. So it kind of defeats the whole purpose of making just trashy pop music in the line of like, you know, Bush or Centipo Pilots. So I don't feel like they under asan the assignment. So therefore it's a nay for me.

All right. We've reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner. where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? All right, so the record I want to talk about is one that I'm like, was really, really looking forward to, even though it's kind of flying on the radar. It's an Australian artist named Hatchie.

Harriet Pilbeam is the name of the artist. She's been around since, I don't know, 2018 or so. And you see a lot of artists these days, name dropping cocktoe twins, but it's always the most vaporous and abstract parts of the band. It's more rare where someone's doing the, let's do the lesser known pop songs from heaven or Las Vegas. Her last album had a Dan Nagro track and was doing the Romeo and Juliet soundtrack thing.

Apparently had eight singles. And, you know, a couple of bangers. But this one's back more in her dream pop wheelhouse. You know, it's not pushing boundaries like Joanne Robertson or Maria Somerville, who we've talked about here. But will I be listening to this more often? You know, probably because, you know, with a lot of the dream pop music that's happening nowadays, like they forget to write pop songs as opposed to.

to having the signifier. So this is a low stakes, fun listen, kind of back in that dream pop wheelhouse. So hatchy, licorice, it's spelled with the QU because she's Australian. So this next record, the record I'm going to talk about, actually came out in July,

and I've been aware of it for a while, and I wasn't sure what to make of it for a long time. I wasn't sure if I really liked this record, but it's grown on me a little bit, and I feel like it's worth bringing up on the show. The title's called The Yips, and the artist is, Hidi USA. And I was initially resistant to this artist because I've seen him described as like a

social media personality because a lot of his songs I've gotten big on TikTok. But he really does occupy this space where he's sort of like Noah Khan if he was more like emo coded. And like this record for instance, it's produced by Chris Walla. It has like a lot of electronic elements to it, elements of Heartland Rock and also emo and maybe even like a little pop punk at times along with the expected folk and country influences and in terms of the lyrics there is a song cycle aspect of the album where he's writing about you know the yips which is this term in golf where you start thinking too much about your swing and you can't drive the ball anymore you can't put or in baseball like he can't throw the ball the first base anymore and just all these sort of psychological

that prevent you from doing what you want to do in life. So he's writing about matters of addiction, matters of like mental illness and self-hatred. And a lot of lyrics are compelling, but he does ride that razor's edge of being cringy at times. And it's one of those records where I can't decide, is this working for me or is this falling flat? I actually feel like it kind of goes a little half and half at times.

But the reason I'm bringing it up is that I think there's enough here that I'm curious just for people to check it out. And you too, Ian, I'd be curious to hear you listen to this album, what you think. I do have a feeling that this guy who already is doing well on social media, that he could start having some real, like in real life success in 2026. Like if you start hearing this guy's name more next year, I wouldn't be surprised. So putting the flag, I guess, in the ground at this point, and maybe we'll revisit this later,

but it's an interesting record. We're checking out. It's called the Yips. The artist is PDUSA. Have you listened to this record at all? Chuck Knoblock core, if we're talking about the Yips. I mean, you neglected to mention this guy was the drummer in Young Jesus at one point. Oh, no shit.

I didn't know that. Yeah. So, yeah, this is someone who's been on my radar as well. And, you know, I'll reserve a bit of judgment. I will say, like, in a completely objective. objective level, there's some cheek face type elements of what they're doing. Well, that's what I mean. There's some cringe on this album.

But I also think there's some songs I like on there too. So I don't know. This isn't like a full-throated recommendation. It's more like a, hey, why you check this out? Let me know what you think type situation. And that's for you, Ian. It's for all of our listeners. But I do think there's potential for this guy to be pretty big.

Yeah. And I also think that, like you're saying, like I'm, know him as like, wait, you make, you know, it's like the, like, when Barney Gumble meets Dave Crosby, you make music. Um, yeah, I just kind of know him as a social media guy. And it's like, oh, right, he's got an album as well. So, yeah, I mean, he'll definitely always be in the conversation. And I think that, you know, if, when I dig more into it, we'll figure out, like, whether this is, you know, someone who I can vibe with or someone who's, you know, kind of more of a cheekface sort of thing. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see what happens. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast.

We'll be back with more news, reviews, and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Taped newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.