Indiecast - Wilco's Massive 'Yankee Hotel Foxtrot' Box, Steve's Pearl Jam Book, and a New Yeah Yeah Yeahs Album

Episode Date: September 30, 2022

Earlier this year, a major pop culture prediction was made: 2022 is the year indie sleaze returns. Think smudged makeup, disco pants, an odd obsession with cheap beer, and, of course, Meet Me In The Bathroom-era indie rock. So, it's only right that the period's most respectable band, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, are also making their comeback. On this week's Indiecast episode, hosts Steven Hyden and Ian Cohen review the band's comeback album Cool It Down (44:41). Plus, they share their thoughts on Wilco's absolutely massive box set (32:36) and plug Steven's just-released book, Long Road: Pearl Jam And The Soundtrack Of A Generation (20:06).The most talked-about music news story this week was fueled by Pitchfork's massive listicle where they rounded up the 250 best songs of the '90s (1:37). Like any major retrospective music list, the choices outraged some, particularly those who noted that Céline Dion made an appearance over Neutral Milk Hotel.In this week's Recommendation Corner (54:53), Ian notes the return of screamo legends City Of Caterpillar. Meanwhile, Steven tells listeners to check out 2nd Grade's new album, Easy Listening.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 107 here or below and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to IndyCast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about my new Pearl Jam book, the massive new Yankee Hotel Foxtrot box set in the new album by the Yeah Yeah's. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He's the one who decided to include one Celine Dion song and zero neutral milk hotel songs on the pitchfork 90s songs list.

Ian Cohen, Ian, how are you? Steve, I'm going to ask you to listen really close for about two seconds and tell me what you hear. Nothing. You want to know why you hear nothing? Because today I am in a chair with no wheels. Pitchfork has spoken. 90s low five production values are out. Wow.

Diane Warren. Glenn Ballard is in. We are going high-fi this week. Best new chair. Right here. You heard it here first, or you didn't hear it here first. Unbelievable. I have mixed feelings about this, you know, because we're getting rid of the squeaks,

but maybe we're entering our sellout period and our hardcore fans are going to abandon us. Of course, then we're going to get a whole new audience, a much bigger audience. Yeah, I'm with that. So that's the trade-off. Yeah, I guess so. You know, you and I were trying to figure out, do we want to talk about the pitchfork 90s lists this week? You know, is it worth it? You know, this is part of the conversation in the indie world, so you can't really ignore it.

But at the same time, it's like, well, what are you going to say about a list? Lists are created in order to infuriate, to provoke, to push the ball forward, if you will, on conversations about music. So are we going to talk about this list at all? Or are we going to just say mazzletoff and go on our way? I mean, I think there are a couple of caveats we need to put forth. You know, a lot of people are asking in my mentions and my email about like, you know, what happened? Yo, dog, where is Molly's 16 candles? And I got to say, like, the key to every successful social movement is organization.

and we just were torn asunder by rotting pinata and wax ecstatic vote splitting. Yeah. But I think, you know, you mentioned that. The sponge block. The sponge block was just not as unified as it needed to be. Yeah, a house divided or a wax, rotting pinata divided cannot stand or whatever. But yeah, you mentioned that like the, it's to infuriate and to push the ball forward. Like, you can totally tell who was like an OG pitchfork reader, i.e., someone who's like 35 to 45 years old.

by talking about like the CDs they bought because of the original list that they're like, wait a minute, this sucks. Like, I mean, Oval made the list again. I remember buying that CD for like 18 bucks and they, oh, this sounds really innovative. It's like, wait a minute. This is like an hour of like skipping CD sounds, you know? Like kids these days won't know the pain of like being robbed of $18 of their hard-earned money to like listen to something that was like number 45 on the list.

You know, one thing I'll say that I think is true of the new 90s list, because they did a songs list that did an album's list. The one thing that, like, the new list and the old pitchfork list have in common is that this category that I'm going to deem extremely 90s, 90s songs are underrepresented on both for different reasons. Like, for me, if you're going to talk about the 90s, there needs to be a space carved out for the Toad the Wet Sprockets, the Goo Goo Goo Dollses, the Harvey Dangers, bands like that that are not the headline artists, but they are undoubtedly part of the fabric of what 90s music is. And early pitchfork disregarded that for one reason because they were too indie.

And new pitchfork is disregarding that stuff because for whatever reason, pop optimism has not come for those bands yet. You know, it hasn't come for counting crows yet. Like, we can make a 90s list and not have Mr. Jones on it or my beloved along December. I will say to Wonderwall. and November rain have been streamed a billion times. Like they're in the billion times stream club. I think you've got to put at least one of those songs on this list. You know, if we're going to try to be more representative of what music was in its totality,

I just feel like, you know, the pop-timism people need to come for guns and roses, use your illusion one. I think because that, if we're going to talk about popular music, great music, that had an impact, And you're going to talk about Celine Dion, she gets absorbed. Mariah Carey gets absorbed. But those groups don't. I feel like that is still incomplete. So maybe the next pitchfork list will finally recognize the extremely 90s, 90s songs.

Because that's something pitchfork, both of those lists. That's the one thing they have in common. They both overlook that part of 90s music, which is a huge part of 90s music. Well, this is our niche. you know, like maybe it's just going to make an indie cast like 90s list where we put, you know, Harvey Danger, it's sponge, it's collective soul. It's funny because I think you like kind of hit the nail on the head as far as like why. And like I have to like deep breathe like shoulder slouch every time I say optimism in the year 2022. It's like though you what you mentioned are rock

bands which are like antithetical to the concept I suppose. You know, it's like at all point, It was like never like it's cool in some ways to be more informed about like pop like popular pop music. But that being said, like my whole thing was like, I mean, I grew up in Philadelphia in the 1990s. And man, I never knew one person who listened to a boys to men album all the way through. So look, it's a new generation. I'm going to step aside, you know, maybe revisit recovering the satellites and just, you know, try to take some comfort in holding true to the same taste. I had when I was 15. I just think that for the next generation,

that this is undercover territory, that the next generation, if you are a 12-year-old listening to this show, and you're going to be a music critic in 10 years, maybe start studying up on your, like you said, your Collective Soul albums, your Stone Temple Pilots albums, your albums that, yeah, they're rock bands,

but it's pop music. Like, that was pop music in the 90s, too. Yeah. You know, that was still a time where, you know, Googood Doll's name was like a number one song for like weeks, you know, or Iris was a huge song, you know. So if we're going to observe this other pop stuff, why not talk about this other thing that for whatever reason is still considered uncool? But like Celine Dion now is not beyond the pale. And look, I'm not saying don't put her on the list, but that is the one area where these two lists are linked.

You know, like if we want to talk about how new pitchfork is less snobby and more inclusive, well, there's still this corner that is not included. And I feel like this is going to be a running theme maybe in this episode because when we get to the Pearl Jam discussion, I feel like this is pertinent there as well. But before we get to that, we have our mailbag segment. And Ian, this is a good letter this week. We were actually going to read this letter last week. we had too much stuff in our episodes, so we had to hold it over.

If you want to hit us up, our email address is Andycast Mailbag at gmail.com. Ian, you want to read this letter? Absolutely, yeah. We did not get any updates on the Drake Fontano beef. So we're going to stick with this one. So hi, Ian and Stephen. I guess he went with alphabetical. I know you have been called the Stockton and Malone or Siskel and Iber.

but I would like to propose that you two are the Burton Ernie of Indy Rock. I won't say who is here. Not a question so far. Oh, my question, okay, he's getting to it, is around... I'm the Ernie, I think, because I'm the taller one. Isn't Ernie the tall one? I don't know, dude. Which one has less hair?

That's Bert, right? Okay, that's me. Ernie, the tall one has less hair, I think. Gotcha, I think that's Bert. Bert's the yellow one. Okay. Gotcha. My question is to around, to what extent?

do you subject yourself to a terrible album just because it is being talked about? Since you probably have to consume so much music on a regular basis to stay in the conversation with your jobs, do you wonder how often an impatient mood at the time where a huge backlog of albums on the to listen to list has killed most room for gradual assessment? Do you start skipping through tracks faster and faster to get the album over with and onto the album that will probably feel like a chore, only to realize you never even really got beyond the intros before you started skipping the last three or four songs? How do you mitigate that?

Dan from Austin, I think this is a really great question about like how the fuck do you listen to so much music? Yeah, and how do you get through what is a terrible album that you know you have to talk about? Before we answer this, have you been getting a lot of Hurricane Ian jokes this week? Like, is that something you've been subjected to? I feel like this might be a thing where if you write a negative review of an album that they're going to say, It got hit with Hurricane Ian. Like, maybe this will become a thing. Has this come up with you at all this week?

All right. I want to read to you like two texts that have come through in the 14 minutes in which we've been recording. First ones for my brother, man, I haven't seen an Ian be so hard on Florida since that Black Kids LP, which I didn't review. I didn't review that one. Let's get my brother Hal on the next episode. This guy's got jokes. That was a good one, man. We need a rim shot for that joke.

Next, weakened but still dangerous. is headed towards Georgia and South Carolina. I think they ripped this headline from a football weekend circa 2005, which refers to my heroic alcohol consumption when living in Georgia. So, yeah, just real-time stuff happening here with Hurricane. And, you know, like, with all, you know, of course, with, like, all due respect to the people who are, like, you know, getting battered with this. We're not trying to make too much.

This is more a joke about me than y'all. Let's just be very clear. Yeah, yeah, exactly. We, you know, our hearts go out, of course, to the state. but we do have Ian here, and we have Hurricane Ian. It cannot go unremarked upon. Your brother with the Black Kids album joke.

My God. Yeah, he's definitely a guy. That was a good one. He's definitely a guy who stopped reading Pitchfork in 2008, so. Oh, man, good ref. I would have gone, is Puddle of Mud from Florida? I feel like they do. No, they're from like Kansas City, I think.

Really? I'm almost positive. They're like one of the few bands from that era who are not from Florida. They are from Kansas City, Missouri. Because West Scanlon... He's very Floridian. He is. He looks like if you were to look up Florida man in the dictionary, you feel like you'd see a picture of West Scanlan looking disheveled with his white undershirt on.

What was that Nirvana song he sang? Didn't he do a Nirvana song? Was it Polly? I think it was... I'm going to... Yeah, we are... It was a... About a girl. It was about a girl.

Okay, good. I'm glad it wasn't Polly. That would have been just beyond the pale. Yeah, that would have been offensive if he had done Polly. But yeah, about a girl. For those who haven't seen it, look up West Scanlon about a girl and just enjoy some great music. We're definitely not going to answer this mailback question, aren't we? No, let's get back to the question. So Dan from Austin, he's asking, like, how do you plow through a terrible album? and I have to say that I actually get excited if I'm writing about a terrible album because I think a terrible album like a truly misguided, miscalculated, badly executed record by a major artist.

You know, not digging into band camp to find some obscure record, but like by a major artist, just like a disaster. It really is, I think, as unique as like a masterpiece. And in a way, it's more fun to write about. I'm always more interested in failure than success. I think failure is more interesting than success. So if there is a record... And I was trying to think of an example of this.

I mean, we talk about album cycles all the time. But, like, Daddy's Home, for instance, isn't, like, a terrible record. No. I don't think it's a great record, but it's like, okay. It was just that the conversation around it was funny. But the album itself was fine. I mean, the closest I could come to from like a major artist was everything now by Arcade Fire, which I'm not even sure if it deserves to be called Terrible,

but it was an album that was bad in ways that was fun to write about. So I got really excited about that record, even though I didn't like the record itself. I got excited about talking about it and writing about it. what's harder for a critic, I think, is an album that's just okay. And that's true of like 90% of albums. They're just okay. And because there's nothing really to say about an album that's just okay.

I mean, all you can really say is, oh, it's fine for what it is, which is the most boring observation you could make. So I would say that the problem is sort of mediocrity, not awfulness. You know, and a lot of things are just sort of mediocre. And there's nothing really to latch on to as a listener or as a writer. Yeah, I mean, my interpretation of this question wasn't so much about like terrible albums because like, yeah, terrible albums, which I haven't had the pleasure of reviewing in a very long time. I mean, I'm thinking about like the profits of rage EP, like the public.

enemy rage against the machine slash cypress hill. Like, that was fun. I have no problem getting myself excited for that. And also, like, the okay for what it is, like the middling, like, for example, that preoccupations album I reviewed. Like, I mean, those can be, like, the most rewarding things to do as a critic because it really forces you to, like, be, like, to work through ambivalence and so forth. But, you know, the thing that I took away from this question is, how do you listen to

stuff that you kind of feel obligated to listen to for the sole purpose of keeping up with the conversation, you know, being able to comment on the narrative. And, you know, that is really tough because, you know, he mentions our jobs. Now, for me, it's like I do have a nine to five. And so, which cuts, which cuts greatly into the amount of time I can spend like listening to music. And every single album has, like, plays a part in this calculus of like, do I listen to this thing that I'm pretty sure I'm not going to like or do I listen to this new album that I might like or what about listening to old music I know I will enjoy? And so my patience has been very, very limited in the, you know, in the past few years, but also there's

like a freedom in that, you know, because, you know, in 2012, let's say, I would have like, I would have listened to that say Sudan Archives album like five times to see if like the hype is real. Now I can listen to like five to ten minutes say it's not my thing and then go about listening to Animal Collective feels. You know, because that's because that's what the weather dictates and that's what I want to listen to. And so I mean, I think what Dan's asking here is like just a question about aging and like reconciling your receding relevance, which great question in regards to the Pearl Jam discussion that we're going to have because the second half of your book is kind of about that. Well, I'll say too, like I am a full-time critic and I have to write columns every week.

And I really don't feel obligated to listen to an album I really don't care about in order to have a take on it. I actually think that if you do it that way, you're doing it wrong. Because there are so many people now who have... takes, that if you're just manufacturing something that you're not really invested in, it really defeats the purpose of doing it. Like, for me, I think that if I'm writing something, I want people to know that I actually give a shit about what I'm talking about. And I think that comes through.

It just comes through in how you express yourself. I think people just have a sixth sense for that kind of thing. And if you're like the critic who's like, well, I'm going to talk about Lizzo. this week because Lizzo, she twerked and she played James Madison's flute, and that's what people are talking about, and I have to have a take on it. If you

actually don't care about Lizzo twerking and playing James Madison's flute, the people who are seeing you talk about that, they're going to know that. So, like, for me, like this week, I wrote about this band from Philadelphia called Second Grade, who I'll be talking about in Recommendation Corner.

And they put out a record that is out today. It's called Easy Listening. it's one of my favorite records of the year. I wrote about 2,000 words on it. I have a long interview with the lead singer. Second grade, obviously, not as popular as Lizzo, but I also know that, well, there's not a ton of other people talking about this record,

and maybe I can corner the market on the second grade easy listening conversation, and it's actually something I give a shit about. And if you approach it that way, I think you will actually be more sustaining for yourself and your voice as opposed to just chasing trends on Twitter. I just think that that's the wrong way to do it. So yeah, don't keep up with conversations you don't care about. I think that is a good rule of thumb in all corners of life.

You will be happy because, you know, you're only alive for so long. And I'm like, I don't want to be on my deathbed and be like, I spend three days talking about Lizzo twerking and playing James Madison's flute. that seems like I wasted those three days of my life. So, yeah, that's my answer to that. Yeah, on my tombstone put, he spent way too much time talking about the crystal flute. Yeah. But you didn't, though.

You were like, you were talking about, you were posting Simpsons memes and talking about college football. Like, you died as you lived. That's right. You know, it was a great life. Let's get to our list of topics for this week. And of course, we're starting off with the biggest music news of the week, which is the release of my new book, Long Road, Pearl Jam, and the soundtrack of a generation.

Look, this is our show. So I made Ian read the book so that we could have a self-promotional infomercial in the middle of this episode. We could talk about the book. You know, if I'm going to tie it to something relevant from this week, I think I would go back to those pitchfork 90s music lists. Again, they ranked 250 best songs of the decade and 150 albums. And Pearl Jam made the songs list, Corderoi from Vitology, I believe, was at number 240 or so.

No albums on the albums list. Kind of a surprise, you would think Pearl Jam, if they were going to end up on any list, it would be on the albums list, not on the songs list. I'm actually surprised they made any, like, either list, just because pitchfork historically, not a Pearl Jam fan. And again, it goes back to my point before that there are certain bands that old pitchfork and new pitchfork are an agreement on, but like for different reasons.

And like Old Pitchfork didn't like Pearl Jam because in the late 90s, early 2000s, Pearl Jam was the epitome of mainstream rock. It was sort of like what indie rock in a way was reacting. against, or at least it could be perceived that way. And new pitchfork, I would imagine a lot of the writers there now would look at Pearl Jam as being this sort of old-fashioned classic rock style band. I mean, really, their opinion probably wouldn't be that much different than the old pitchfork opinion.

It's kind of an interesting concentric circle scenario, like where this is like one of the areas like where maybe those two different groups agree. One of the feces of my book is that Pearl Jam, I think unfairly is locked into this sort of image as a 90s only band. I think like the popular understanding of them is that they are like locked in the 90s and really kind of locked in their 10 period. And that's all you really need to know about them. The attempt I'm making with the book is to broaden the understanding and the appreciation of this band.

That I think there is a bigger career and a bigger impact than maybe they get credit for. one of the cases I make in the book is that the 2002 where they release 72 bootlegs, which is something many people have made fun of over the years. I make the case that that is one of the strongest bodies of work in their catalog,

which might seem contrarian or even insane to some people, but I do think that if you want to make a case for them as a mature sort of forward-looking rock band, that their work as a live band is so important to understanding that. And I think all of their songs sound better live. But I just think how they have lived on as a great concert act

in the vein of like a Bruce Springs in the East Street band or the Who, you know, being part of that continuum. I think that is their greatest legacy even more than the albums. But I've talked a lot about Pearl Jam this week. I am curious, I know you read the book, which was very sweet of you. I appreciate that. it means a lot to me. You checked it out. What did you think of the book? And what are your thoughts on Pearl Jam at this point? And where they stand and what their legacy is. So, I mean, Pearl Jam was

one of the things that your book gets at, which I found to be very resident, was how for someone like myself who was 11 or 12 years old when 10 came out, like you could own that and think like, this is my band. Like this is something that is like off the beaten path and, you know, is it what all the other kids are listening to. You know, this album like sold how many copies, but yet it was so true because this was like the first band that made me feel like an individual as far as a music consumer. I have a very distinct memory of bringing a cassette copy of 10 to summer camp and one of the older kids, he said, yo, what's that MC Pearl Jam and the boys?

Like, you know, reference to obviously Heavy D and the boys who are much cooler. I mean, that is, look, that is a devastating. diss. I remember it like 30 years later. And you mentioned the irony of like, you know, us getting back to right where we were in 1992 where all the cool kids are listening to Mariah Carey and boys to men and like Pearl Jam fans are marginalized. So, yeah, this, I own the Pearl Jam like stick figure, uh, t-shirt. Um, this, I was very much in the tank, uh, up to Vitology. No code. I was still there, but, you know, I kind of, um, um, You know, started to recede at that point.

And, you know, you also mentioned how, you know, this book is kind of a commentary on Generation X as a whole being in the middle of this pre and post internet sort of timeline. And when the time came for me, like, the other most important album of my teens was OK computer. You've written about Radiohead as well. And so, yeah, like, when that album came out, like, I turned on Pearl Jam really hard. Like, that to me was I'm not listening to this great. grunge, this alt rock stuff anymore. And yeah, I didn't like, I, I bought yield. I thought it was kind of boring. I think one of the best things your book does is make the case for yield is

misunderstood, which is really fascinating, given my memory of it as this very middle of the road, you know, Pearl Jam, desperately doing Pearl Jam, sort of thing. But yeah, it was just so, I don't know, just so disorienting to read this and just remember what was absolutely like this time that I actually live through. And especially how Pearl Jam, like, even if they are seen as this, like, kind of quasi-boomer, middle-of-the-road, like, corporate rock sort of band, how with a lot of the things that Nirvana is credited for, for example, like, kind of centering women in their lyrics and, like, standing up for social causes, like, Pearl Jam, like, really did that stuff, you know?

and I think they're kind of misunderstood or underappreciated as this agent for social change, but the way they did it, I guess, is like locked in the 90s and kind of embarrassing, be it the Ticketmaster stuff, be it the message songs on versus, which, you know, let's be real. Like, yeah, glorify G, WMA. It's like, I can imagine a band trying to do something like this and have it be super embarrassing right now. But yeah, they're not subtle. on that record. There's not a lot of subtlety,

although I will say that in the context of the time to have a major rock band do a song like WMA was actually pretty progressive. Even if, in retrospect, you want to look at it and roll your eyes at it, I think the intention there was to use the platform in a positive way. And when you exist in the media landscape,

that's pre-internet, which is, I think, vital to understanding the impact that Pearl Jam had, that this was really the last stages of a media culture where if it wasn't on MTV, if it wasn't on the radio, it was really hard for people in the middle of the country to hear what you were doing. And it really exploded what the significance of the band was. Like what you were saying earlier about how you felt like this was a band for you

and that this was a band for like outsiders. And I think that's a take. that I also feel is true, but if we had been five years older when that record dropped, probably wouldn't have felt that way. You know, like, if I had been in my 20s when 10 dropped, I would probably look at that record much differently. But I turned 14, like, the week after that record came out. I was square in the demographic for appreciating that album.

I'll say this, too, you know, since I'm in salesman mode here, that I do think, and I've heard this from various people who don't like Pearl Jam, but have enjoyed the book, that if you're curious about the 90s, curious about the culture and the music landscape at the time, that you have to at least acknowledge Pearl Jam's presence. And I think studying them, learning about them is a way to understand the decade. Like, if you want to cut them out of your narrative about the decade, you're leaving out a pretty significant chunk, you know, and it's not really about your, you're

personal feelings about the band. You know, that's in the eye of the beholder. That's an opinion. But it's a fact that they were a huge part, certainly of music in the first part of the 90s. So if you're an agnostic or even if you hate the band, if you like this show, I think you'll get something out of the book. At the very least, it's entertaining, I think. Yeah. I would like to think.

They sold a million copies of verses in its first week. I mean, like, you can't, like, that is insane. numbers. If the very least you're interested in like pop music from like a straight up statistical standpoint, then yeah, Pearl Jam absolutely is a part of that story. And

just thinking about like so many of what they did, which has like really no modern day analogs. Like not going on MTV, fighting against Ticketmaster. You know, like making an entire album with Neil Young. It's just like

it's just such a fascinating a story and you know to think about a time when a rock band like pearl jam who you know not a pop rock band but a rock band like the world anticipated every single move they made um and just the way that they i think that the the the the kind of takeaway from that era is like you mentioned how people more or less turn their back on pearl jam and don't defend them the way they might like with even like corn or limp biscuit or like the way the boomers like still rode with like the who and by the way like this is I can't believe I'm just like kind of sliding this admission in here until this week when I read your book I have not listened to a Who album as a whole I listen to

who's next it's pretty good wow it's pretty good wow I got you to listen to who's next I'm pretty happy about that yeah you know as you were saying I mean you know the book I tried to have a broader discussion about just the decade and other things that were going on in the culture. And it's not just the 90s either. I mean, there is the whole second half of the book, which I know from talking with you, you're like, I don't really know even what you're talking about. And this part of the book in terms of like what the songs are and stuff, I think a lot of people dropped off, you know, going into the 21st century with them.

But in a way, I think that's the most interesting part of the story just because so many of their contemporaries completely imploded, you know, by the end of the 90s. And obviously, if you look at the big four Seattle bands, Pearl Jam Nirvana, Allison Shane Soundgarden, Eddie Vedder's the only frontman who's still with us. And I think just how they survived, the intense fame and the backlash and all the things that changed in rock music, you know, going into the new century. I think is interesting. I say that as an unbiased observer of all this.

So, yeah, I don't know. I guess my humble hope is that people read this book and maybe when there's lists in the future that they'll slip no code into their albums list. Because I do feel like that's an album. That is their sort of like potential cool guy to rediscover album. That is definitely a contrarian's choice. Though I listened to Vitology and that one stood out to me is still their best work. I think because that's got Quaroy as like the kind of peg for people to revisit it.

But yeah, no code Vitology, super interesting albums. So let's get to our next topic. And we're going super dad rock this week, which is of course my comfort zone. We need to talk about the massive, and I mean super massive, new. box set devoted to Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. I believe that there is a smaller version of this box set, but if you are interested in this record, and actually this is going to be part of our conversation about this,

because I think you and I come from different points of view on this, but for me, if you are a fan of Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, you need to spring for the deluxe edition, the 11 LPs, 8 CDs. I don't know if they're going to be streaming the entire box set on streaming platforms, I guess we'll know by the time this episode posts. I know sometimes with these box sets, they'll only do the smaller version so that they compel people, you know, the insane people that want everything to like, you know, drop some money and get the big box.

I wrote about this box set last week and it really was a revelation for me. I've often said in the past that my favorite Wilco record is my bootleg of Yankee Hotel Foxtrot outtakes. Because as much as I love the original record, I think that the pursuit of making that record is even more interesting than the record itself. And look, there aren't that many albums I think you can say that about. There are certain records that have that reputation where people just want to hear. every iteration of what was done during the making of the record. I think Pet Sounds obviously is

that kind of record in a way it's maybe the original of that kind of record. But you have records like Fleetwood Max Tusk. I think Radiohead Kid A probably falls under there. There's other examples, but I think what makes the Inky Hotel Foxtrot stand out, if you know anything about the history of that record, is that

Wilco went through many different iterations of the songs when they were working on that record. So you have versions of, say, of the song, Camera. I think Camera is like a song that they did so many different versions of. There might be like a psychedelic rock version of it. There might be a garage rock version of it. There's like a country rock version of it.

And for me personally, hearing them work in the laboratory and run through so many different arrangements where it's camera, but it feels like a different song. You know, it's the same. song, but it feels like 10 different songs in one. For me, is endlessly fascinating. And, you know, I'm one of those people. I've rode

with Wilco for a long time. We talked about Cruel Country, their album from this year, earlier this year, and I was very, I think I called that their best album in at least a decade. So I still think Wilco's making great music. But you listen to this album, and you really realize,

like, wow, Jay Bennett was such. a genius when it came to arranging songs. Because he was really the guy that took the lead on that. And when you listen to the final Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, I mean, the story of that record is basically Jeff Tweedy, Jim O'Rourke, and Glenn Cochie, essentially taking a lot of the music out of the record and, you know, crafting it into this very austere,

kind of chilly sounding sparse record, which is brilliant for what it is. But in my piece, I mentioned this Bruce Springsteen quote about the difference between making music and making a record. And how when you make a record, you sometimes lose the spontaneity or the joy that comes from making music. And that's a necessary process. but the music that We also made at this time, I think that really comes through on the box set. And as much as I love the record, I also love the music, if that makes sense.

And the box set is what really spotlights that. Yeah, the one that's available on streaming, as you mentioned, I believe that's the 7 LP version. That's got, it's five discs, 7 LP, 51 songs. But that's not the one that, like, is the super deluxe $250 one that has, I believe, 11 LPs. So, yeah, if you're... Well, you can get the CD version for like $70.

Just throwing that out there. I got that. That's what I got. That's what I paid for mine. And believe me, it's like my memories of Yankee Hotel Foxtrot are CD. I know that like this is such an audiophile album and it's like, it would seem to be like conducive to vinyl listening. But like, I'm thinking of like my bootleg CD version. followed by the official CD version.

Yeah, this is a CD album. This is, you know, I think we get a sense of, like, the different ways in which you and I interact with some of our favorite bands in that, for me, like, I never like to listen to the songs in process. Like, like, there have been times where bands I've really liked have asked me, hey, you want to, like, listen to the demos of this album I'm working on, and I'm always saying no. not out of like, yeah, I don't fucking care to listen to this, but more it's just like, I think I ascribe this magic to album making as opposed to songwriting to put that Bruce Springsteen quote

in context. And, you know, as much as I love Yankee Hotel Foxtrot and Wilco, it wasn't until, I guess, the pandemic that I finally watched, I am trying to break your heart, you know, which isn't just like this thing for Wilco diehards. It's roundly considered like one of the best music documentaries of recent times. And I just saw their setup in the studio with the microphones and like all the strange instruments and it just gives me so much anxiety thinking about like how difficult it is to even just like make a song on your computer. And also like with the demos and outtakes, unless I'm listening to, unless I'm reviewing

a reissue, which I've made, I've had the either privilege or onus to do with smashing Pumpkins albums. Like, I mean, we're talking even about like the 128 song deluxe version of the aeroplane flies high. I'm not really interested in to add alternate takes or demos. Like, that's kind of one of the things that makes me pissed off about Apple music is that they'll redo albums and like include like 24 songs on the Stone Roses. But with this, listening, I did, you know, take some time to listen to the outtakes and alternate versions. And I don't know if it makes me appreciate Yankee Hotel Foxtrot more. I mean, I think it should because there are just so many ways that Yankee Hotel Foxtrot

becomes something different and something lesser. I think the unified theory of everything version of camera is very indicative of that because it's raw. It's more like, I guess like a country rock song instead of the version with like the thumb piano on Yankee Hotel and it just shows how much effort went into making this record, which really creates this interesting conflict with Jeff Tweedy's book, How to Write One Song, which seems to espouse more of a guided by voices philosophy of like, yeah, just put it on tape. I'm sure it'll be great.

You know, I guess, but that book was written for like novices, whereas Jeff Tweety is a genius. So, yeah, I mean, I think it has allowed me to see this is the work of humans, but also to, I guess, be kind of sad about how I don't know if bands get to do this kind of stuff anymore. You know, take three years to just rework and rework and rework and rework and have the trust of a label and like a band to put together a record of such magnitude, but also just so much elbow work. I mean, God, can you imagine how many times they had to do, like, the poor places, radio stuff to get it right? You know, that probably took like eight hours. Yeah, exactly. You know, it is interesting the narrative of this record and how I think the box set will change it a little bit because when Yankee Hotel Foxtrot was released, a big part of the story was Wilco makes this record. it's kind of weird

and they get dropped by their record label. And that's a big theme of the movie too, this like David and Goliath story between like the small indie band and this like corporate label. And I feel like that story does not seem significant anymore. Like it's not really

the most interesting part of it, especially since Wilco was like swiftly resigned by another label that was also a subsidiary of the same company, which is Warner Bros. So it's not like their big star and just got destroyed because their album didn't come out. You know, it was like a minor bump in the road during Wilco's long career. The interesting part of this record is, like you were saying, that they took so long to make this record.

And that it was like a real sort of artistic saga, you know, where they're just in the studio trying to make not just a great record, but a record that, you know, Jeff Tweedy-Talk. about this in the liner notes, he wanted to make a record that he hadn't heard before, you know, like a visionary type record in the vein of like a kid A. Like that's the same thing Radiohead was trying to do at around the same time. And there was a similarly like long process like where they were exploring that. And, you know, I'm with you where you were talking about how you're not really interested in hearing demos for most bands or most songs in progress. I think I'm actually with you most of the time because most,

most of the time, like demos just sound like poorly recorded versions of like what the song is going to be. Like it just seems like a lesser version of what is going to end up on the album. I think Yankee Hotel Foxtrot is an exception because the outtakes and the alternate versions, even if you can justify

the record as it was released and I think the record as it was released. Like there's, I don't think that there's anything on the box set that should have gone on that record because that record is what it is. But the stuff that's on this box set is also awesome.

And I think really, it's not a matter of the stuff on the album is better or the outtakes were better. It's that Yankee Hotel Foxtrot as it was released, like that's what the record is. It's a mood piece. And the big difference between the album

and the outtakes is that the outtakes tend to be a lot more bombastic and overstuffed and kind of crazy at times. And if they had gone in that direction, it just would have been a much different record. But, like, I love hearing this stuff because if you just divorce yourself,

if you don't compare it to the album and you just experience this as music, it's a lot of wonderful music. So the matter of, like, what deserves to go on or not, I think that's a moot point. I just love immersing myself in this world and experiencing a band that was really pushing itself. to be inventive, you know?

And it's exciting to hear all the ideas being thrown around. It's just such an exciting listen, I think, for that reason. Yeah, so Wilco, highly recommend listening to this band. Yeah, Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. Good record, yeah. It's a pretty good record. Let's get to our last topic for this episode, which is Cool It Down, the new album by the Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.

This is the fifth Yeah Yeah Yeah's record. It's their first in nine years since 2013's Mosquito. I feel like we have talked about other Meet Me in the Bathroom era bands that we recently talked about Interpol, for instance. The strokes have come up, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I guess they're the number three band. They're the Alice in Chains, if you will, of the New York scene. I'm curious, what do you think, of yeah yeah yes generally and how did this new record hit you so you mentioned that there i disagree with the uh alison chains comparison because i think if only because like nowadays i think the yeah yeah's are at least the most respected or respectable of the band to come out of that era um i think and there are several reasons for it first of which is well like the strokes are obviously the biggest band

yeah from that time absolutely they're the pearl jam of of that scene and the stroke By the way, huge Pearl Jam fans. It was so funny in the 2000s, people were like, oh, you, like, Julian Casablanquins, you must listen to television all the time. And he's like, no, like, we grew up listening to Pearl Jam. And like, they still waved the Pearl Jam flag. Like Eddie Vedder recently performed. I think it was Juice Box with the Strokes.

So, in Interpol, there's really no Nirvana. No. Unless you want to say the White Stripes are Nirvana. I don't know. Except the fact that like Kirk Cobain never lived to have like just some of the worst haircuts you've seen on in the 2020s. But yeah, the AIA has like have this position of like being a band that is, you know, maybe second to TV on the radio as far as like respected or respectable because even if their music has been at least for me a little bit hit or miss over the years, they release albums so in. frequently that you can't really get bored of them, you know, because like Interpol, they release a new album, you kind of know what to expect. The strokes, you kind of know what to expect. With this one, I think every time they come back, there's a desire to, you know, reassess them. And also, Karen O comes off definitely as the best of the bunch and meet me in the bathroom.

She seems very level-headed and likable in a way that a lot of those bands don't. And being able to just kind of flip the gender dynamics of an era makes it more interesting for reassessment. So the AAS have benefited from that. And also, like, they've put out the most recent, beloved album of those bands. I guess we could look to

its blitz in 2009. That was sort of grouped in with Dirty Projectors and St. Vincent, Animal Collective, such and such as, like, as, like, peak indie. And it was kind of ahead of its time as far as, like, an embrace of

dance music, synthesizers. And I think that's as loved, if not more so, than fever to tell. So I think, yeah, so I think that there's so much goodwill coming into this. And yeah, I'm interested in hearing it. It's a short album. I'll give it that. It's like eight songs, 30 some odd minutes, right? Yeah, yeah, it really breezes by.

Yeah, you know, going back to what you were saying about, you know, just comparing them to other bands of their generation, they are the most malleable out of those bands. Like if you think about the New York bands, and we'll group the white stripes in here too because they're not from New York, but they're part of that era. The thing that's striking about them is like how fixed they are

in terms of their image and sound. Like you think of the white stripes, you think of the strokes, you think of Interpol. They all wear costumes, essentially. And they all make records, within a fairly narrow sonic vein. If you hear one record, you kind of know what the next record is going to sound like.

Some records are better than others, but they're not really breaking the mold in any way. And as you said, yeah, yeah, yes are the exception to that. Because while Karen O is one of the most magnetic and stylish lead singers of the last 20 years, and I think one of the best lead singers of the last 20 years, you know, she's not fixed in one moment in time. You know, like the fever to yell era, which was more of this post-punk era, is wildly different from, as you were saying, it's blitz. And it's always felt like yeah, yeah, yeah's had the ability to pivot much easier than the other bands. And I think that's also allowed them to have maybe in a way, a more consistent career. And, you know,

that brings us to this new record, cool it down. As you said, it's a pretty short record, but I feel like it's probably one of the best, if not the best album to be made by a band from that scene, like in the last few years. I mean, I have a soft spot for the new abnormal.

I like that record quite a bit. But this album, I think it feels more like a contemporary indie album than what the strokes do or what Interpol does or what it's a little bit later, but like LCD sound system.

you know, they feel like they're sort of evoking what they've done in the past. And I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, as I've been able to move forward with this record that it's basically like a doom-laden synth pop record. You know, like perfume genius is on the first song on the record, which is called Spitting on the Edge of the World, which I think for me is clearly the best song on the record. And it really sets the tone for what the rest of the record is. which is again this sort of like spooky, sexy, cool, electropop vibe. It's a very vibe type sound. And it really benefits, I think, from the presence of Karen O, who, if she weren't on the record, maybe you could mistake this for like any other group or any,

there's lots of people working in this vein right now. But because she's such a singular charismatic presence, it really gives it a character. that it might not otherwise have. I guess my question, because I don't know a ton about the making of this record, is to what degree is this like an actual band album? Because if you had told me that

this is just a Karen O. Solo record, I'd have no reason to dispute that, because that's what it sounds like when you listen to it. I don't get the sense of this being a band necessarily, but maybe I'm totally wrong with that. I mean, the other members

sort of faded at the back. background, it really seems like a showcase for Carineau. And I can think you could argue that that's always the case with a yeah, yeah, yeah, this album, even though like Nick Zinner is someone who's kind of an in-demand session player, he has a very distinct style of playing guitar. But when you mention that it does sound contemporary like a modern-day indie band, I mean, yeah, it's released on Dead Oceans, which makes it technically speaking an indie rock record.

It's short like an indie rock record, and it is going for this kind of kind of, cosmic reverby synthesizer dance. Like it fits very well within the modern scope of things in the same way that like its blitz did. And also like show your bones, the very underrated show your bones. The yeah, yeah's album I we listen to the most. But I think what's I guess nice about this album is how unassuming it is. I think spinning on the edge of the world makes

It sounds like a huge comeback album, but it stays more or less within that realm for about a half hour. You know, I was listening to it while making dinner. I'm like, oh, wait, like it ended. It's over. Which can be, you know, it could cut both ways in that if you really believe in the EAS is this generational band, it might seem a bit, a bit slight. But if you're someone like myself who just really likes to feel like, you know, not falling off the edge of relevance, You can say, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, they still got it.

Maybe we should reconsider whether bands from that era have something to say. And, you know, this also, of course, makes me wish that, like, TV on the radio can make an album like this in the not too distant future. I would be totally happy with that. I think the world would be as well. Yeah, you know, it is curious that, you know, this is the first yeah, yeah, yeah's record in nine years. So maybe people will be expecting something a little weightier. than an eight-song record. But I actually feel like that plays to this record's advantage

because, you know, how many albums do we hear that strain for importance by just putting a bunch of stuff on there that doesn't really need to be there? And it ends up killing the experience. Whereas this record, you put it on. And I think it is actually, you know, a nice, succinct statement that asserts what you like about Carineau. you know, because that was the impression I had listened to this record like, wow,

what a cool singer, what a great presence, what, again, like one of the great lead singers, I think, of the last 20 years, like, where, you know, there aren't a lot of people like her that just, like, you cannot ignore her when she's on, when you're listening to it, you know, it really made me appreciate, like, what she brings to the table because there's just not a lot of people like her, you know,

before or since. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? Speaking of stuff from 2002 that's now just coming back into the fold, City of Caterpillar, they are what, like, when you talk about like Screamo, I've had numerous instances at work where people like, oh, you listen to Screamo, like, slip knot, for whatever reason, that's like many people's working definition of Screamo. but like city of Catterpillar is the kind of band that you would bring up when you want to talk about like quote unquote the real stuff. They released an album in 2002. They're a Richmond, Virginia band who pretty much make it onto every single like best emo album or best emo songs list. And they've come back with a new record called Mystic Sisters. They more or less invented the seven minute screamo song, you know, the one that has those elements.

but also like very vast post-rock passages. And they've come back with an album that is, you know, it sounds more mature, it sounds less raw, it sounds better produced. But at the same time, it sounds very contemporary because so many of the bands that are trying to do a more post-rock, more indie, more considerate version of Screamo sound like this. So I think it's the, I think it's like the best thing to say about this album that it sounds like, it could sound like a new band, except, you know, there's excitement centering around it because it's their first record in 20 years. They've been playing some shows recently. And they are kind of one of the many old school screamo bands like Jerome's dream, who's coming back.

So it really, and satia, you know, the band, the band who had the original drummer from Interpol, as four-year-old. Health pointed out. So there are really cool things going on in Screamo just in general, but like having this band come back really gets to see where this stuff came from. And hopefully it will open up a door where people can discover this music from the late 90s, early

2000. So City of Caterpillar, Mystic Sisters, if you like 8 Minutes Screamo songs, there's a couple on this album. Well, there are no eight minutes Cremo songs on the album I'm going to talk about, unfortunately. But as I mentioned earlier, my recommendation corner for this week is about a band called

Second Grade from Philadelphia and their new album Easy Listening. And I've talked about second grade on this show before. It's led by this guy named Peter Gill, who also plays in another really good band called Friendship. But second grade has become, in a way, his central concern in recent years, and you can really hear that attention paid on easy listening. I was a fan of this band's 2020 record called Hit to Hit, which was this record. It was sort of like if guided by voices sounded more like the raspberries, you know, a very sort of melodic band that specializes in really short songs.

I think that record had about 24 songs. This one, easy listening, the songs get a little bit longer, but it's still about basically having a really cool verse, a catchy chorus, maybe repeat the chorus again 30 seconds later, and then you get out. Like very efficient and spelt songwriting, but just really well done. And look, when you come, when you talk about Power Pop, you're not really looking for originality. You're not really looking for someone to reinvent the wheel. You're actually looking for pleasures that are comforting and are also really well executed. So if you know the tropes of Power Pop, you're not going to be surprised. Like, are there jangly guitars on this record?

Yes, there are. Do the vocal sound boyish in a melancholy sort of way? Yes, they do. Are the lyrics replete with references to the Beatles and Beach Boys? Of course. Are there lots of handclaps and gooey backing vocals? You bet. All that stuff is here.

and I would say that there's like a lot of mediocre power pop records that get made and they all try to do this so like when someone actually pulls it off I think it is a special achievement because it is well trod ground

but to find some way new to do it and to do it in such a sort of charming and effervescent way I think it deserves to be commended so easy listening by second grade a record I've really enjoyed listening to this week you this week. As I said before, I have a feature on the band on Uprocks this week. I invite you to check that out.

If you're into this kind of thing, I think you're really going to like this record. We've now reached the end of our episode. Thank you so much for listening. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mixape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie. and I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.