Influential Entrepreneurs with Mike Saunders, MBA - Interview with Daniel Wachs with Perpetual Wealth Management – Leveraging Premium Finance

Episode Date: January 15, 2026

Daniel has worked in the insurance and financial services business since 1995. He is the founder of Perpetual Wealth Management, LLC, and the Perpetual Wealth System for Premium financing transactions. Daniel’s business has been focused on Premium Financing for the last 15 years. Daniel is a National Vendor for Premium Finance Strategies, representing multiple life insurance carriers and finance lenders. Perpetual Wealth Management has funded over $2 Billion of Death Benefit and has over $750 million of funded and/or committed capital loans outstanding, with multiple finance lenders. Daniel works around the country with IMO’s, agents, and HNW clients to implement these concepts. His main focuses entail Estate & Charitable Planning, Business Planning, and Supplemental Income Planning. He has spoken at many industry events on the topic of Premium Financing. Daniel works and lives in Chicago with his wife, Anna Marie, and has three children, Isabelle, Alexandra, and Andrew.If you are interested in learning more about Premium Financing and how these concepts can be implemented in your practice or financial plan, please book a no-obligation 30-minute conversation with me.Learn more: http://www.perpetualwm.com/Influential Entrepreneurs with Mike Saundershttps://businessinnovatorsradio.com/influential-entrepreneurs-with-mike-saunders/Source: https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/interview-with-daniel-wachs-with-perpetual-wealth-management-leveraging-premium-finance

Welcome to influential entrepreneurs, bringing you interviews with elite business leaders and experts, sharing tips and strategies for elevating your business to the next level. Here's your host, Mike Saunders. Hello and welcome to this episode of influential entrepreneurs. This is Mike Saunders, the authority positioning coach. Today we have with this Daniel walks with perpetual wealth management, and we'll be talking about leveraging premium finance. for high net worth individuals. Daniel, welcome to the program. Mike, thanks for having me. I'm excited and look forward to talking through the premium finance strategies with you. Yeah, I think this is a unique realm in the world of financial services.

So I know that it might be new to some people. And then there also might be some confusion. So I'm looking forward to kind of clarifying that up as well. But before we dive in, get us started with a little bit of your story and background, and how did you get into the financial services industry? Well, I had a sales training and marketing business when I went to school, and after finishing up that and getting done with the sales training business, I went into the insurance business. I started with Northwestern Mutual back in 1995, so I am on my 30th anniversary of, being in the insurance. And over time, got financial services, investment licenses, all those different licenses to work with clients.

But yeah, I've been doing this for about 30 years. Started with Northwestern Mutual, a couple years there, and then went off and went independent. So now I'm an independent broker representing many companies. But about 15 years ago, my... I started to really specifically work in this premium financing world. I always enjoyed helping people and taking care of their families using life insurance and philanthropy strategies. But the premium financing was intriguing to me. So I dove into that and studied and learned and talked to banks,

talk to people that were doing it. And then eventually what met with different insurance carriers, went through a process called a vetting process, which was mainly to see how I structured programs for clients. What must my renewal process for, you know, the annual renewals of the bank loans and went through that and became what's called an intermediate or a vendor. And so I represent five or six different carriers with the vendor relationship. and what that means is that I work along with other IMOs, agents, clients, providing them these services just to finance insurance policy. So I'm providing the lending aspect.

I'm not personally preventing the lending, but I'm providing the banking relationships to facilitate it. Yeah, facilitate. That's correct. You know, I want to dive into, you know, this whole world. what is a premium finance and, you know, what does that look like? But it was something you said, I want to kind of drill in a little bit deeper because I feel like it's really important. When someone in your world works for a company, they typically can only offer that company's products or services.

When you are independent, and like you said, you've got your set up with several larger organizations, you can sit down with a client, find out what they exactly need and then pick and choose and structure something that is specific to them, not, trying to fit a square peg in a round hole with limited choices, right? Right. That's exactly correct. Every client's unique. Every client's different. So not every product or not every strategy works for them. So when we're sitting down, a lot of our meeting with the clients is really getting to know

them, getting to know their situation. And I feel, Mike, that the best way for a premium finance strategy to work for a client is it to be a part of their overall plan. So some carriers, depending on a client's situation, may be better than others. But like you said, being independent allows us to almost be like a fiduciary that we're able to provide the products that fit the client's needs. Yeah. So I want to move into what is premium finance.

So if you can define, you know, we hear what is premium finance. finance for high net worth individuals. What is premium finance? And then how does this create opportunities for these high net worth individuals that traditional strategies really aren't going to, you know, touch? And kind of within that thought process, it makes me think, you know, why high net worth individuals? Why can't it be, you know, a minimum wage employee a person? So talk a little bit through that. What is it? And then what are the opportunities for the high net worth individual? Okay. Mike, so the premium finance. a lot of people feel it's a pretty complicated type of strategy, but theoretically it really isn't.

I mean, really what a client that is utilizing premium financing is instead of them paying for premiums out of pocket, traditional strategies, they're actually going to a third-party lender that's going to pay premiums on their behalf. So like the one thing to realize, though, is that premium financing obviously is not for everybody. So I want to just explain who it's for and why. So the who it's for is about 2% or less of the population in the United States qualify for this. So it's not a strategy for everyone. And the reason that is is because one of the requirements is that a client's net worth be around $5 million. So that takes out a lot of

people. And the reason that is is because, you know, most premium financing transactions, the premium minimum for a bank to do this is $100,000. So the premiums are going to be substantial. And the right type of person that can do premium financing is a person that could write a check for that premium based on their plan, but instead is choosing a lender to do that on their behalf. So the client will make interest payments to a bank instead of premium payments to an insurance company. Yeah. And I think key word their insurance company, because when you hear premiums, you know, okay, well, $100,000 for premiums, what in the world kind of premium with that before is for a specially structured insurance type of a tool.

We don't need to get into the weeds of what that is, but I just want to kind of clarify that that's what the end result is. Yeah, because I think, like, just to get into the weeds just a little bit, most insurance plans, you know, when they're designed, are that a client will pay a premium every year, and that will provide coverage similar to like a term insurance plan. They pay premiums and they have the insurance. A lot of policies are structured the same way, but what a bank does is actually instead of a client paying a premium

for the rest of their life, what they'll do is take that number, basically and fund the policies quickly to make them more efficient. So when we structure a policy, we're buying, you know, a minimum death benefit and allowing the cash to go in. But a bank wants to do that in a five, seven, ten-year period at time. So they're taking the cumulative amount of premiums over a lifetime and then putting it in to the policy, usually in a 10-year period at time. So that's why the premiums are.

little bit higher and it's not for everybody. Yeah. And then there's a myriad of benefits of having that financial tool. But let's move into what are the key benefits of borrowing the money for the premiums versus what if someone just had it sitting liquid? Why not just put it in liquid? What are the benefits of using other people's money? Well, some people will do that, right?

I mean, if they're liquid, they may choose to do that. the main thing is, is educating the client and saying, you know, this strategy is available because a lot, like you mentioned earlier, a lot of people have heard the term, but they really don't understand or don't really know exactly how this works. So it's intriguing to me to understand that a high net worth, we always think high net worth people, they know everything because they're successful. But the point is, is there are rules we have to follow, and there's also ways to structure the plan. But the main reason, I feel that high net worth people will use a lender to fund their premiums is number one,

they understand leveraging. So they know that if the bank's putting the money in the clients ends up usually paying about 30 to 40 percent of that premium amount through leveraging. And so they understand that they're already used to it. A lot of them have real estate and people understand buying a home in real estate. But the tax savings is another area. And what I mean by that is that the interest payment being, you know, 20, 30 percent of what the premium is, you know, if I'm funding an insurance policy, it's usually with after-tax dollars. And if I'm only having to 30 percent compared to 100 percent, that in and of itself is a tax saving.

And then in the insurance policy itself that, you know, as that grows, it grows tax deferred, but also people take distributions in the future and they do it. properly, then, you know, that money can become tax-free when they're taking distributions and all death benefits and insurance are tax-free. But the main reason, too, is that if the policy is structured, that, and outside of the estate, it's also, you know, estate tax savings, because a lot of people will use insurance paying, you know, that discounted premium to cover their estate costs upon demise. So that's a big savings as well. So leveraging tax savings, retain capital. If I can use 30% versus 100%, I have the other 70% working. And most high net worth people have a lot of money tied up into their businesses, investments, real estate,

all those things. So if this is part of the plan, then it's, we're using a port. of their plan to fund the insurance policy, but the rest is going to be working for them. So leveraging tax savings, retained capital, and by using someone else's money and paying 30 cents on the dollar, their internal rate of return of the policy and the way the bank structured with those 10 payments, larger payments, then the internal rate of return is dramatically increased by utilizing this strategy. You know, it makes me think of the word arbitrage. And I'm sure that there's an element of arbitrage there, right, where you're, you know, yeah, you are incurring a debt because you have to make the payment back to that institution, but then the benefit of having that underlying policy is bringing some benefit. And then there would have to be what goes in, then goes out. But then there's a little bit left over. And some of those left over might be cash value, tax advantages and things like that. Is that a kind of a broad way to think of things, too? Yeah, I think so. I mean, it's definitely, I mean, arbitrage is, you know, how much am I paying and, you know, am I using the leverage and can I earn a better rate of return to, you know, to satisfy my needs or desires, right? So that that arbitrage is important. And I think we'll get into that a little bit later as well. But in itself, the main four reasons that, you know, that I feel that the client's leverage.

or arbitrage, you know, could be almost the same word, tax savings, retained capital, and increased internal rate of return that we're doing it as we're moving along down the strategy. Yeah. So let's talk about, you know, really dialing it in, like we mentioned about you being independent. You can kind of go, okay, let's roll up her sleeves here and create this custom plan. How can premium finance strategies be tailored to fit the unique needs of business? owners because it's definitely not something just off the shelf. Let's Google this, click it and set it up. Right. Well, the business owners that I've worked with, Mike,

is, first of all, you know, I've met some really, really neat people that have, you know, I'm fascinated on how people earn a living and, and have been to some different businesses. But in business in general, a lot of the benefits for employees or other people involved in the business, really are geared for, you know, that type of person where the owners are really limited in what they can do and, and the earnings that they're used to making, you know, contributing to your 401K, all these other things, you know, it's, even if those grow dramatically, it's probably not going to, it's substitute, you know, the income that they've been earning during work. Plus, in business owners, if there's partnerships, I mean, a lot of times, you know,

entrepreneurs feel they're invincible, but theoretically they're not. And we have to structure plans or buy-sell agreements allowing, you know, them to protect their interest in their business. And I'll give the capital available then upon demise that allows them to, for the partnership to buy out those shares and then become the owner of the business rather than being, you know, partners with their partner spouse, you know, so there's, that's one area. The other area we, you know, is it's a competitive world now.

I mean, and to keep good talent and keep people working, you know, they need some other benefits. So we've structured these plans to where the, where the business, you know, becomes the, the borrower on the transaction, but then they buy a policy on some of their key. people and once they fulfilled their commitment. So it's almost like they handcuffed their talented people. You see this a lot in doctor groups, lawyer groups. I mean, even I've seen, I've done some with the universities, you know,

is paid their coach that way. I mean, so many unique ways to do this. You know, Harbo had this plan in Michigan. and I think the coach at Clemson has a strategy like this, but they see it as a benefit because of the tax savings, and then the university doesn't have to pay out as much in their salaries, but they're borrowing the money from their endowment. So there's a lot of neat ways to do this, but I think business owners, you know, the protection in the early years with the death benefit. But and then as the business grows or they sell the business or they retire, then, you know, we'll transfer the policy to them where they can use that for supplemental retirement income just to take care of themselves, but also in the early years, protecting their each other's partnership interest. Yeah.

That's a really good point. And, you know, also I've heard that same, you know, set up and scenario with business owners to attract, you know, top talent. and retain top talent. So I think that's, there's so many ways that people, I love when I, when you can see, hey,

here's this tool. You could use it one of, uh, multiple ways. But it, it, it kind of brings this, this thought to my mind.

Someone can listen to this and go, that's a great idea. Let me just go buy one off the shelf or down, uh, you know, Googling it. But you really need a specialist like yourself to know all the nuances and intricacies.

So talk a little bit about, the role a specialist plays in making sure that the full picture is articulated, their complexities of this premium finance is actually dialed in the right way to meet the needs that you've got and to hit those objectives. Well, I think that insurance cures over the years have evolved into saying that they don't want a person to be able to just go out and buy this because there's just, there's too many moving parts. So they started this vendor intermediary program, you know, years ago.

And I went through this, you know, a long time ago. But the point is that when you're an intermediary, you have to know, number one, you know, you have to have relationships with the banks, the lending. So you have to understand finance and lending and how to structure. the policy and then, you know, the insurance policies and being independent is great, but you also have to know a multitude of products with different carriers and how they work and which type of product is going to fit the clients. So, you know, it's not just one size fits all, you know, so it's really is uniquely designed depending on what they want to do. But, but Mike, I spend a lot

of time reading, studying. I enjoy that. I enjoy doing that. But also, you know, I have to understand, you know, because the insurance policies have, you know, rules, too, but tax laws. I mean, there's just a lot of different types of things that you need to know. And what's been great is over the last, you know, since COVID, I mean, COVID wasn't great, Mike, but it transformed my business instead of having to, you know, do a presentation, travel, you know, and hope it works out. I mean, Zoom has been so great. So a lot of times, you know, I'll present this concept as part of, you know, the team of the advisor or IMO I'm working with knowing that, you know, I can present it. I can answer the questions for the client.

You know, we funded over $2 billion. of insurance, you know, since I've been doing this, I have, you know, close to a billion in loans. I mean, so that wasn't always like that way, but every year, you know, you learn a little bit more. A client situation is a little bit different, and you learn from them. But the main thing is, is that when I work with an IMO or an advisor as a specialist, you know, I have one job to do is make sure that the policy gets funded correctly, make sure the policy is performing correctly. I have to pay a bank back. I mean, so that's, you know, that's, you know,

so the money isn't free. I mean, they need to get paid back. So that's, that's really important to me. Yeah, that's a great point. And making sure that all of the pieces are put together in the right way, performing the right way, deadlines, checklist, you know, if this, then that. That is invaluable for someone to know that this is being put together by a specialist.

And I think that's really, really powerful. So I think at this point, Daniel, if this is something that someone is hearing a couple of these things that resonate with them and wanted to get a little bit more information and reach out and connect with you, what is the best way that they can do that? Well, I think that my website is www. www. perpetual WM.com. So www. P-E-W. Perpetual P-E-R-P-E-T-U-A-L-W-M.com. I got a ton of resources on my website, and the best way to get a hold of me is to get in contact

with our team by email, and that can be at info at perpetualwm.com. It's a great use of time, because we do have a lot of information. Mike, the reason I love this strategy so much is the fact that, you know, I just educate people. And this is not a transaction that happens like, hey, I'm going to the store. I'm going to buy something and I have it, right? I mean, this takes time. There's a lot of planning involved.

It could be estate planning. It could be insurance planning. It could be a lot of different things. So it does take time to work through the strategy. And the clients do have to qualify. Like we talked about early financially, but insurance. is also underwritten, so the client has to qualify medically as well. So that's the process.

That's perfect. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on, Daniel, and giving some of these insights and appreciate your time. Thanks, Mike. I appreciate it, too. Good speaking with you today. You've been listening to Influential Entrepreneurs with Mike Saunders.

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