Influential Entrepreneurs with Mike Saunders, MBA - Interview with Daniel Wachs with Perpetual Wealth Management – Strategic Use of Leverage in Retirement Planning

Episode Date: January 16, 2026

Daniel has worked in the insurance and financial services business since 1995. He is the founder of Perpetual Wealth Management, LLC and the Perpetual Wealth System for Premium financing transactions. Daniel’s business has been focused on Premium Financing for the last 15 years. Daniel is a National Vendor for Premium Finance Strategies, representing multiple life insurance carriers and finance lenders. Perpetual Wealth Management has funded over $2 Billion of Death Benefit and has over $750 million of funded and/or committed capital loans outstanding, with multiple finance lenders. Daniel works around the country with IMO’s, agents and HNW clients to implement these concepts. His main focuses entail Estate & Charitable Planning – Business Planning and Supplemental Income Planning. He has spoken at many industry events on the topic of Premium Financing. Daniel works and lives in Chicago with his wife, Anna Marie, and has three children, Isabelle, Alexandra, and Andrew.If you are interested in learning more about Premium Financing and how these concepts can be implemented in your practice or financial plan, please book a no obligation 30-minute conversation with me.Learn more: http://www.perpetualwm.com/Influential Entrepreneurs with Mike Saundershttps://businessinnovatorsradio.com/influential-entrepreneurs-with-mike-saunders/Source: https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/interview-with-daniel-wachs-with-perpetual-wealth-management-strategic-use-of-leverage-in-retirement-planning

Welcome to influential entrepreneurs, bringing you interviews with elite business leaders and experts, sharing tips and strategies for elevating your business to the next level. Here's your host, Mike Saunders. Hello and welcome to this episode of influential entrepreneurs. This is Mike Saunders, the authority positioning coach. Today we have back with this Daniel walks with perpetual wealth management and we'll be talking about the strategic use of leverage in retirement. planning. Daniel, welcome back to the program. Mike, it's good to be back. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. You're welcome. Yeah, I know you do a lot of work with the premium finance, and this is an interesting opportunity that you are going to talk about here to kind of collaborate and have

strategic alliances with other advisors that help them open doors to, you know, create some of these opportunities for themselves. So talk a little bit about your work with advisors and how does this strategic use of leverage help them with their retirement planning to open up doors to high net worth individuals that they might not have had the opportunity to work with before. Yeah, I think the advisors I work with, you know, varies, right? I mean, you know, not everyone has, you know, again, the clients that were working with, you know, the minimum net worth of $5 million, you know, good income earner. and those are not like your everyday people, but, you know, most advisors have a couple of those.

Some have a lot, but they don't really have strategies or programs that are different and unique that set them apart. I mean, there's only so many investment strategies, only so many, you know, annuities or whatever it is that they can pitch. but a lot of times, you know, I tell advisors when I meet with them, when I present this to them, you know, when I hear more and more from clients is, wow, this is something, you know, that I've been pitched a lot. I've been pitched a lot of insurance before, but I've never seen anything like this. You know, so it's a differentiator and allows clients because, as we all know, in this world is that the more things that a client does,

with you, the stickier the relationship becomes. So we're trying to add another service. Plus, you know, there's only, you know, so many things that we can learn. I have a partner that does all my investment management. I don't even deal with it, you know, because I just don't have time to do that. Same with these. Not everyone understands insurance, but they understand investments. So we're helping them open doors. We're providing another revenue stream for them that allows them to, you know, introduce a prospect to, to me and to our team. You know, we do Zoom calls, we talk them through it. And also this client, you know, does the strategy and the investment advisor makes a six-figure income and doesn't do, you know, doesn't have to do a lot

of work, you know, but they do, you know, manage the relationship as well as. you know, providing the person to implement the program. So it works great, but being, like I come in as a specialist, Mike. So all I tell advisors is, I want you to introduce me as someone that all as I do is this. So if I present it and the client says, yes, great. If they say no, they're saying no to me and not to you and your relationships should not be impacted by, you know, by that happening. So it works great.

I mean, I really, and plus I really enjoy, you know, these clients that I've met, these high network people that, you know, they're interesting,

you know, and they, you know, and we just educate, Mike, I just, I mean, my goal is, I want them to educate and at the end of the day,

if they do it great, if they don't do it great, you know, it doesn't matter to me. I just want someone to do it because they're educated. They, they understand as much, as they can understand. And then over time, they understand it more and more because we meet with

them every year and go through the program and renew it and work through the policies. So, you know, it's a compliment to their team. And then a lot of times I end up, you know, the clients call me direct, right? And I, and I just inform the advisor, you know, what's going on. You know, here's what we talked about. So it's been, it's been really fun, you know, do this over the last 15 years. You know, it makes me think of what type of advisor would be best to kind of have this on their radar, meaning this. Someone that just graduated college got licensed and thought, oh, I can make a six figure, you know, commission, let's do this. No, because you don't have the respect, the rapport, the connections with high net worth individuals. So what type of financial

advisor are you looking to partner with that might already have these relationships versus someone that needs to go out there and establish them from ground zero? Well, I think it's a really good question. I mean, I think that the younger person, you know, there are some younger people that are really smart, but then, like you said, they're maybe lacking in experience at that point in time. And that's what I feel I can bring to the table is I work with a lot of younger advisors,

might that, you know, that know people that have money. And then they bring me in and I, you know, I'm, you know, able to, you know, provide the strategy that makes the customer or client feel good because, you know, they're not just working on a multimillion dollar transaction with someone just out of college, you know. So, but, you know, my kids are a perfect example. I mean, they've interned with me over the time and they have spent, you know, a lot of time in my office listening to Zoom calls. and I'll tell you what, they know the strategy, I would say 99% percent of the lot of advisors I work with. I mean, so anyway, but I don't care, you know, it's just like anything. Like if I have to have a surgery on my back, I'm going to go to a back surgeon, right? I mean, so when they bring me in, you know, I'm a premium finance specialist.

This is all I talk about. And this is all I do. So, you know, it's just they position me that, but the advisors that are great are ones that, allow how should I say this but because to stay in their lane

and allow a specialist to do what they do well and then one plus one equals nine right exactly but but I also am aware that these are probably their best clients

and you don't just let your best clients talk to anybody right I mean you don't want that so you know so I but I understand that that's why I got to educate them I got to keep them you know informed on what's happening, but, you know, but the Zoom calls that we do have been great.

And an advisor, you know, you want an advisor that the client respects and will, you know, will listen to them because my way I approach, you know, clients, people ask me, how do you get in front of these people? I said, really, it's really simple. I say, Mike, you're a smart guy. and I value your opinion. I have a strategy that I've come across and I'd love to get your thoughts on it. That's gotten the appointment every single time because they don't even know.

And then when you bring like the advisor was saying that, you say, hey, listen, I have aligned with one of the premier experts in the industry doing this strategy. I'm going to set up a three-way zoom with us and then we can kind of all chat about it and just see if it resonates with it. you. Well, at that point, the advisor doesn't have to know all of the intricacies. He's bringing the expert on yourself. Right. And that's, and that's where it works very well because, you know, that as, as we're presenting, you know, and it's like I said, it's not, it's not a something that happens overnight. I mean, the goal of my Zoom call might the first time that if a client's interested, you know, the goal is saying, okay, we need for you to apply with an insurance company and get a medical offer on what it is because that's what the bank will use

to determine, you know, the payments, the collateral, all the situation. I can't even go to a lender unless you're approved for the policy. I don't, you don't want me to go to a lender if you're not approved for the policy because we're not going to do anything. I mean, so it makes no sense. So it's a step-by-step process. Insurance first, get it approved. Then we go to the bank and get that approve, but the bank financing is not like your mortgage financing and, you know, jumping through hoops, doing all these different things. I mean, it's, it's, it's pretty quick because it's a secured note, 100% secure. So a couple tax returns, investment statements, so some liquidity. And the process doesn't take, you know, a long extended process. But the same

thing happens with the insurance is that, let's say a client is trying to protect their estate and they need insurance to discount to purchase it. They're not going to create the trust unless they qualify for the insurance, right? So there's just a step-by-step process, but spelling that out, the clients. I mean, there's transactions, Mike, that I've worked on. And it's taken two years to get them done. Yeah. And let's tie that thought.

Let's tie that thought into relationship like you touched on. but I want to go a little bit deeper on this. These are not transactions that you're asking for someone to flip your referrals and I'll split a thousand dollar commission with you. These are large opportunities. And your focus is to develop a long-term relationship with the advisor so that they have such confidence in you that they're going, wow, this opened up so many doors for me to really serve my high net worth client better.

It actually increased their AUM. and we sold them a big FIA. But now all of a sudden, when there's a win-win-win, when the advisor wins by looking good and creating that extra revenue, the client wins because this is something they had never thought was a possibility. And now they're seeing the plan come together. And then, of course, you win. Well, why would you want to throw a wrench in the works and mistreat the relationship?

Because then it's one and done. You want to develop such a long-term relationship that you can do this once, twice, three times a year, potentially. with that advisor. Yeah, that's a good point because, you know, I mean, I look at it and say, okay, if I'm not adding value, then I'm of no use, right? I mean, I've had advisors that, you know, they've got in the door, we put a buy-sell agreement for a company, you know, insured the partner so they, you know, if something happened that

they could, you know, raise capital quickly to buy each other out. but that advisor then did the 401K for the company. He sold insurance for, you know, employees at the company. I mean, he just, it got him in to a relationship. And now, I mean, he's in a fairly small town in right around St. Louis area. But, I mean, I've gone to Gulf Outings and now he's known as the premium financing expert in that, and all these business owners work with them now. And this was a strategy that, you know, he took,

and ran with it, but I helped him, you know, do that. And then, you know, he was able to really increase his, his, is, his, is, his, is, is, is assets under management. So, you know, and I don't participate in those type of, you know, sales. Like I said, I focus on, I focus on the, if a client does financing, I get paid. If they do anything else, then the advisor gets paid. So, I mean. Yeah.

Let's even explore that a little bit. What are some times you've worked with an advisor that you conducted the transaction, like you're talking about, the premium finance, but then it opened up the door for that advisor to then go back to their client and provide maybe, you know, increase the AUM production or sell them a fixed indexed annuity. Have you heard that coming up? What are the benefits that way? Yeah, because, I mean, the main thing is that, you know, the advisor utilized,

the premium finance strategy as a unique strategy to provide value to his client. And once the client goes through this process and starts to implement it, then, you know, they also have other needs, right? So then, you know, annuities, income needs for retirement, 401Ks for their employees. I mean, so, you know, the sky's the limit, you know, but they just needed to somehow connect. with the client. And what's interesting, Mike, is, you know, if someone showed you, you know, the features and benefits of an annuity and you're either going to buy it or you're not going to buy it one meeting, a couple meetings, right? But I tell advisor, I said, listen, you know,

if I have six, eight, ten meetings with your client, you know, to do all the planning and figure out this finance strategy and every time I call them, they pick up my, they pick up the phone and they talk to me and, and we're working through this. That's an intriguing strategy that someone's interested, right? I mean, so, so that's the whole, the whole, you know, process. And then over time, you know, it's just, you know, it's, it's a bigger transaction. So it's important to them. So, you know, we have to do it right. And then, you know, like you said, then the way it wins for me and my team is that the next time they have someone that fits the criteria, then I want them to call me instead of another vendor across the country. So let's wrap up with this thought, Daniel.

I know that when you're working with advisors, they already know how to sell an IUL. and they may already have a high net worth client, they might think, oh, well, I'll just go talk to them about a mega-mega-sized I-U-L and I'll go find some lender and I can connect the dots. What are the advantages of working with the specialists like yourself whose sole focus is premium finance for high net worth individuals? Well, first and foremost, I mean, like we've talked through these different conversations we've had is that obviously, you know,

it's more than just, you know, writing a premium a check to an insurance company and buying an insurance policy. That's what it is, but it's, you know, now you've got a bank involved. Now usually because of the premium limits, you know, that we have that, you know, they have to, you know, they have to, understand that, you know, they're borrowing money, how the policy works and all the other things.

So, but I think the main thing, Mike, is that I've been doing this for a long time and I've seen, you know, a lot of different strategies. I've worked with a lot of really good producers, learned from them, learned a lot of different things. So I think the value that I bring to the table is, is, you know, when a client's having a conversation, I'm thinking in my mind, okay, how do we put the finance program into their overall plan? So, you know, with real estate guys, I'll talk about, you know, 1031 alternatives with business owners, buy, sell agreements, and then the policy being a form of supplemental retirement in a tax advantage way. I mean, so I'm bringing a lot of ideas, and that's how you keep the interest of the client.

And I'll just say, you know, because I've done so many of these is I always tend to talk in third party. Mike, this is what one of my clients has done before. You're kind of similar to him. This is what he utilized it for. So I'm just giving them ideas to use and for them to use the strategy and become part of their plan. And that's where it becomes super effective. Yeah, huge point. You know, I guess you're just kind of the thought process of it's a team.

It's a team effort that you're not looking for, you know, one-off relationships. You are looking for long-term relationships with the advisor. And the only way you can win doing that is if you do a good job for their client and you would love to high-five them five years down the road going, look at those four clients we worked on together. You know, everyone's happy. So, you know, that being said, I think if an advisor is looking for opening up some doors to increasing some of their revenue with their high net worth clients without having to go through and learn everything you know, but partnering up with yourself, what's the best way that they can learn a little bit more and reach out and connect with you? My website has a ton of resources. www.

perpetual, p-r-p-et-u-a-l-w-m.com. So, www. perpetualwm.com. Phone number 630-445-1399, 630-4-4-5-1399, 630-4-4-5. or emailing info at perpetual wealth to get information they need. And one last point, Mike, what I thought as you were just asking those other questions is a lot of the insurance companies realize that, you know, this is a strategy that, you know, needs to be monitored, needs to, you know, and there's a lot of things that have to happen year and year off for premiums to get paid.

So a lot of insurance companies now are requiring that a person, you know, that specializes in finance and go on the application, you know, as part of it. So, you know, a lot of people, you know, may have the skill set, but they still need an intermediary because, you know, I had to talk to actuaries and, you know, all these other people and show them my strategies. So it just the success rate of the policies getting funded and banks getting paid back are in the high 90s, 90%, 99%. And a lot of it is because they specialize and have intermediaries or vendors to work with the advisors around the country. Makes total sense. Everyone's covered and their safety and clarity. So that just makes total sense, Daniel. Thank you so much for coming back on.

It was a real pleasure chatting with you again today. Thanks, Mike. I appreciate doing this. And it's been fun. Thanks for everything. Appreciate it. You're welcome now. You've been listening to Influential Entrepreneurs with Mike Saunders.

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