Influential Entrepreneurs with Mike Saunders, MBA - Interview with Wayne Miller and Darren Grunberg with Hale & Associates Discussing Fixed Index Annuities

Episode Date: February 11, 2026

Wayne Anthony Miller, II, is the Senior Managing Director and Executive Vice President of Hale & Associates, an independent nationwide financial services firm.Hale & Associates has over 40 years of industry leadership. Wayne specializes in helping retirees and pre-retirees protect their life savings, maximize income, and build durable multigenerational legacy plans. Wayne’s mission is to safeguard assets families have worked a lifetime to build and empower every client to retire with clarity, confidence, and long-term peace of mind.Darren Grunberg is a fiduciary advisor who helps retirees protect their savings and create dependable income for life. After years as a professional trader, he saw how quickly markets could rise or fall — and how fast a lifetime of savings could be affected. That experience led him to focus on helping people avoid unnecessary risk and build retirement plans that feel safe, steady, and easy to understand.Darren works with retirees across the country to protect their savings from market volatility, create guaranteed income, and reduce the uncertainty so many people face in retirement. He believes every retiree deserves clarity and confidence, not guesswork. His goal is simple: to help people enjoy a retirement they can trust.Learn More: www.haleandassociates.netWayne Anthony Miller, II – 0G30788 Vice President of Sales Hale & Associates, LLC CA DBA Hale and Associates Financial and Insurance Services, LLC – LIC #6013528 CA DBA Wayne Miller Insurance and Financial Services – LIC #6014459 PH. 317-677-7178 PH. 949-943-5266 FAX. [e-mail] Investment advisory services are offered through RLB Financial a registered investment adviser. Insurance products and services are offered through individually licensed and appointed insurance agents.Darren Grunberg-CA LIC#4333498 Managing Director Hale & Associates, Inc. PH: [phone] PH: [phone] [e-mail] Entrepreneurs with Mike Saundershttps://businessinnovatorsradio.com/influential-entrepreneurs-with-mike-saunders/Source: https://businessinnovatorsradio.com/interview-with-wayne-miller-and-darren-grunberg-with-hale-associates-discussing-fixed-index-annuities

Welcome to influential entrepreneurs, bringing you interviews with elite business leaders and experts, sharing tips and strategies for elevating your business to the next level. Here's your host, Mike Saunders. Hello and welcome to this episode of Influential Entrepreneurs. This is Mike Saunders, the authority positioning coach. Today we have back with this Wayne Miller and Darren Grunberg with Hale and Associates, and we'll be talking about fixed index annuities, what they really are. are without the noise. Wayne and Darren, welcome back to the program. Thanks for having us, Mike.

Thank you so much, Mike. Hey, so when I hear without the noise, that kind of makes me think there might be some misconceptions about fixed index annuities. And so let's jump right in there to go, hey, let's define what is a fixed index annuity and what would some of those misconceptions be before we kind of dive into the mechanics of why you guys specialize in this type of product. Sure. I'll start. I'll answer that question, Darren, if you don't mind. Sure.

So at Hale and Associates, we saw a massive disconnect, Mike, between what retirees needed, predictable income, principal protection, stability, and what traditional investment models provided. Fixed index annuities help fill that void. And what they do is they offered growth opportunities without market losses and the ability to structure guaranteed lifelong income. And by having that security, that's been invaluable for retirees. That's huge. Daron, did you want to elaborate on that at all? Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. Thanks, Wayne. So we saw that most retirees were educated really on how to grow money,

like most people, but not on how to protect it or use it effectively in retirement. And many, unfortunately nowadays advisors focus on investments and that kind of leaves retirees without a dependable income strategy. So we realize that retirees need tools that provide stability without I would say sacrificing growth potential and fixed index annuities really help fill that gap. Yeah. And I think that they're like we've mentioned a second ago, there's probably some misconceptions of how they're viewed. But first, let's just kind of define at high level what is a fixed index annuity. Okay, I'll take that way in. So to take a 30,000 foot view about what a fixed index annuity is, it's a retirement tool that really is designed to protect

your savings and turn a portion of it into dependable income for life. It gives you a downside protection so your money can't lose value during market downturns and it provides the opportunity for steady long-term growth. And it also offers flexibility, allowing you to access the funds when needed and guarantees that your income will continue as long as you live, whether you live till 70, 80, 90, 100 or beyond. And at its core, a fixed index annuity is about creating stability predictability, and peace of mind in retirement years. Well, anytime you hear the word fixed, that makes me think, well, what's the opposite of that? So when we're hearing fixed, that is the definition of, you know, consistency and confidence that

it's not going to change. Are there other types of annuities that you're telling people? Yeah, these are other ones that are out there, but the fixed is where you need to be. Why is that? Well, I'll take that question. So, Mike, just to be specific, there's fixed annuities, which are traditional fixed rate products. The acronym for it's known as MIGA, MIGA, which stands for multi-year guaranteed annuity, very similar like a CD in the bank is the best way for me to describe it. So the interest rate is guaranteed every year throughout the term of the contract. And then there's fixed indexed annuities. Fixed index annuities work different. Okay,

they provide you with the protection from the market losses like a traditional fixed rate product, but the potential growth is from an index link strategy. And think of the index like a measuring stick. Okay. So it gives you the opportunity to participate based on upside potential of a stock market index crediting method without actually being invested in the market. So you're not taking on the risk. It's an interest calculation tool.

And of course, like Darren says, many of them give you the option to create guaranteed lifetime income. no traditional investment can legally guarantee that. Yeah. So as an example, you could have the S&P 500 as the index that you're connected to with that annuity. And if it goes up, then your rate will go up. If it crashes, if you were invested in the S&P 500, you'd be losing money. But in this case, a fixed index annuity. If that index crashed, you then just get zero.

That's correct. But the key thing is on these products, a lot of them have what are called a reset feature. And that reset is based on what's called the index term end day, whether we're looking at that index over one, a two, a three, a four, a five year period. So whatever those potential earnings are based off that interest calculation, that index strategy, those earnings are locked in on that index term end date. And they're protected from any decline. So if an investor, Mike, let's say, for example, has half a million dollars in a fixed index annuity, and they had a good year. And let's just say they made seven percent.

set. Now their annuities worth 535 and it was an annual reset. Market goes down the very next day. They still have 530 in their account. So not only is their principal guaranteed, but whatever interest they earned, that's not protected. That's protected from any decline and that becomes their new account value. That's a good clarification because I think a lot of times when people have the trading mentality, it's like, oh, you took your loss and it's just all gone. But when you've taken that gain in the fixed index annuity, it gets locked in, then the next period starts from there and it creates kind of that ceiling and floor, right? Absolutely. It's like the best way for me to describe this and I meet with clients every day and this is the analogy I use. It's like walking up a set of stairs.

You take that first step. It's when the market goes up, you go up, market goes down, you stay flat. Okay, you're never going back down that staircase. Market goes up, you go up, market goes down, you stay flat. So this goes into the 0% floor. No matter how the market performs, no matter how ugly that year is, your account value will never decrease due to market losses because you're not invested in the market. It's just a crediting strategy. It's an interest calculation tool. You know, it's interesting. And I know that there's probably some really detailed Excel file with graphs that we can point to on this. But the analogy of the tortoise and the hair, you know, the people that have the money in the market and there's volatility and goes up and down and

hey, I had a great year, had a bad year. But the tortoise is the one that wins long term because they make steady plotting. And you can have all of those high years and low years and you might see that average as a pretty good number. But in reality, you're chipping away at those losses because those down years might have been really down. So talk a little bit about that consistency factor when you have that zero percent floor and you can't go below that.

And then the next year, maybe you have just a small gain, but where you're plotting along, plotting along without losses in the end, doesn't that provide just a much stronger return as well as way less pit in your stomach when you're watching the market's going all over the place? Well, absolutely. Now, one key thing, and here's one myth that I want to bust, so to speak, is that when many people look at these products, they compare them to the market. Okay, these products are not designed to outperform the market. Because of course you can make more money in the market, but you can also lose money in the market.

What they're designed to do is they're designed to give you a reasonable rate of return. And they're designed to be competitive better than traditional safe money products, better than CDs, better than certain money market accounts, other safe money type of products that are out there. And so that's what they're designed to do. And just like you said, your example, the tortoise and the hair, I use that staircase example. It just goes up. It can never go down when the market goes down. So, Darren, what's another misconception about fixed index annuities that we can explore?

I have two myths that drive me absolutely nuts. Myth number one is if you die early, the insurance company takes your money. That is categorically 100% not true. If you die, and I don't mean to be morbid, but if you die with money in your fixed index annuity, 100% of the remaining account value goes directly to your beneficiaries. The insurance company keeps nothing. Let me reiterate that. The insurance company keeps nothing and 100% of your account value goes to your beneficiaries. That's myth number one. Myth number two, your money is locked up and you can't access it. That is again, 100% not true. In a fixed index annuity, because it is a

a long-term product, you're allowed to withdraw up to 10% annually without any penalty during what's called the surrender period. And after the surrender period ends, which is typically between five and 10 years, you have 100% access to the money, no penalties, no charges, nothing. That is your money to do what you owe with it. Fully liquid, it is your money. It is not the insurance company's money. Those are two myths that drive me absolutely nuts because you hear on TV, don't invest in annuities, don't invest in annuities, don't invest in it.

But what they're talking about is they're really talking about the variable annuity because the variable annuity is tied to the stock market with exorbitant fees and a risk to your principal. And a fixed index annuity, there is no risk to your principle because you're not in the market. And again, it drives me nuts because from men, media and social media, you hear these things. And again, it's a lot on us to relay that message. But, you know, that's what we're trying to do. And again, it's through. Regarding liquidity, if a retiree knew that they needed a large chunk of a certain one of their accounts, then they would not want to place it into any type of an annuity because they know that they need a larger amount than that 10%. So it all goes into the planning. And just like I know that you guys will

agree with this statement, there is not one retirement plan for every single person, cookie cutter template. Next, here you go. Everyone's different. Everyone has different goals and needs. So you sit down with them and find out what they need. And then you would never recommend any type of an annuity for someone that needs a large chunk of their liquidity.

To your point, though, if you need 10%, you can grab that anytime. And then after that surrender period, whatever time frame that is, then it's totally liquid. So I like that clarification of the misconception that people have had in years past. Exactly. I'm sorry. One last point is that, you know, when we present to our clients, we ask them what their plans are for money. If they need their money one year, two years, three years out, then the fixed index annuity is not for them because this is a long-term, you know, solution to your retirement. This is not meant for short term.

So again, that's all with the meeting and getting to know your clients. This is not something that is for everyone. Again, if you need that money quickly, then this may not be the right solution for you. Exactly. If you don't mind, I want to take it a step further, Darren. So like Darren said,

you don't want all your eggs in one basket, got to have liquidity. Fixed index annuity is just a tool. And there's not one investment product, so to speak, that's going to solve everybody's problems. So like if you're in a stock, right, you don't have the downside protection, but you know, you have the upside of the market. The annuity gives you the downside protection, but then there could be, you know, limited liquidity and so forth.

So it's just a tool so that someone has a well-balanced financial plan, well-balanced portfolio. A couple other myths I wanted to elaborate on these fixed index annuities, if you don't mind, Mike, is that one of the, one of the myths out there is that these products don't earn anything. I mean, that's incorrect. Now, the last couple years, I've had clients that have purchased. these products, they did extremely well on these annuities. They made double digits. I mean, that doesn't happen every year. But this idea, so to speak, that they don't earn anything, that comes from outdated products or comparing fixed index annuities to the stock market, which is the wrong comparison. Okay, they're not meant to beat the market, like I said. Yeah. They're designed to protect

principle and provide steady index-link interest crediting strategies without losses. And many of the modern products, they've evolved. They have competitive, what are called participation rates, uncapped strategies, and their engineered volatility controlled indices. They have very strong crediting potential. And they're really not too complicated. Okay, the engineering behind them can be complex, but we try to make the client experience simple so that the client understand so it's not complex. Retirees need to understand how the formulas work. I mean, we can tell them, but, you know, just like you don't need to know how an engine works to drive a car. That's the whole point. I'm trying to make. The benefits are simple. You can't lose money from market declines. You can earn

interest when the index performs. You can create lifetime income and you get stability and protectability. So we try to keep the whole experience simple so that our clients understand, but we also pride ourselves being thorough so that they know what their options are so that they're educated so that they can make an informed decision. You know, you bring up a good point there, Wayne, and you've talked about this before, but I want to make sure that people really realize the power of having options and flexibility, meaning this. You are an independent advisor. You're not captured by any of the bigger names you see out there on TV or the radio or the internet. So you're able to draw from dozens and dozens of opportunities and tools and accounts and funds to show clients to achieve

what they need. Talk a little bit about the benefit of having that freedom and flexibility being independent. Oh, well, when you're independent, the best way for me to describe it is like, if you are going to go buy a car and you go to a Ford dealer, okay, that guy on the lot is going to try to sell you a Ford, okay? Yeah. So he might try to sell you, you know, a Lincoln or a tourist, but he's going to try to sell you a Ford or she's going to try to sell you a Ford.

If you go to a CarMax, for example, they just want to sell you any car on the lot, but they want to put you in the right car so that you're happy. That's the difference working with an independent. We're not bound to any company or product. When it comes to these type of plans, I mean, we have access to a plethora of different insurance companies that are all highly rated. So it's our job to point the client in the right direction. We're not going to recommend some product or plan that wouldn't be the best for them because, Darren and I, we simply have too many licenses to protect. We got to do business the right way.

I mean, our company's been in business for 40 years. You can look us up. we've never had a complaint, but our obligation is to the client to do what's in their best interest. You know, why don't we wrap up the concept here of fixed index annuities with something that I think I've seen out there online and regarding flexibility on annuities? Aren't there certain types of add-ons or riders that you can put into an annuity that gives even more flexibility to the retiree? How does that work? Absolutely. So there's what are called income riders.

which the income rider will guarantee them a steady stream of income for the rest of their lives or their life and their spouse's life either right away or they can choose to defer that income. If they chose to defer that income, many companies that we work with, they have what's called this benefit base, which is a calculation for their payout. It'll be guaranteed to grow. And many of them will grow at a predictable rate of return, anywhere between 8, 9, 10% per year as a calculation for a future pension. but the nice thing is once they start taking out income,

that income can last them for the rest of their lives, but they don't lose control of the underlying asset, which means the insurance company doesn't keep the money. They're not doing what's called annuitization. They still maintain control of that asset, and that income only has the ability to increase, depending on the product they're in. Once it were to increase, it can never decrease.

They can start and stop their income, and whatever's left in there upon death will go on to the beneficiaries as a death benefit. There's other products out there, that have riders that enhance liquidity for them. For example, to your point, the 10% traditional, you take out 10% a year, well, there's some products out there that if they decide not to take out 10% one year, they could take out 20% the following year. And there's other products that have return of premium benefits that if for some reason,

after a period of time, they want to do something else with their money, they can get back a minimum of what they originally put in, minus what they withdrew. So there's a plethora of competitive rider options that are out there, Mike. You know, you mentioned some of the car, automotive example, and it reminded me of the old Buick commercial like, this is not your grandfather's Buick. Well, this is not your grandfather's annuity because back in the day, there used to be some flies in the ointment, but nowadays they have really polished these up. Some of these benefits and protections and freedom and flexibility that you've mentioned sound just really spectacular for the right person in the right circumstance. So if someone is interested in learning more about how potentially a fixed index annuity would benefit their retirement, what's the best way they can learn more and reach out and connect with you guys? You can go on our website at www.w.h-a-L-H-A-L-E and Associates.com.

And you can find a ton of information on there, and you can reach out to me, you can reach out to Wayne. And, yeah, that'll be terrific. Excellent. Well, thanks, guys. I really appreciate you coming back on. It's been a real pleasure chatting with you. Thanks, Mike. Thanks, Mike. Investment advisory services are offered through RLB Financial, a registered investment in Pfizer.

Insurance products and services are offered through individually licensed and appointed insurance agents. California insurance license number 0G 30788. You've been listening to influential entrepreneurs with Mike Saunders. To learn more about the resources mentioned on today's show. or listen to past episodes. Visit www. www.

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