Influential Introvert: Communication Coaching for Professionals with Performance Anxiety - Co-Hosted Podcasts: How to Succeed Without Ruining Your Relationship

Episode Date: February 22, 2020

Special request: The podcast media host Blubrry is looking for nominees for Favorite Woman Podcaster.   I would love to spread the word about Podcasting Step by Step so I can help more people podcast.    If you feel I’ve helped you and I’m one of your favorite podcasters, I would appreciate it from the bottom of my heart, if you’d nominate me, Sarah Mikutel. Nominations close March 7, so you might as well head over there now before you forget :)   Go here 👉 sarahmikutel.com/fav   Now on to today’s episode...    Are you considering a co-hosted podcast? Stop! Before you proceed, listen to my conversation with Lyn Lindbergh.    Lyn joins me to discuss the absolute essentials you must have in place for a co-hosted podcast to succeed. Because if you get it wrong, the consequences go far beyond having a bad show. A co-hosted podcast gone awry can ruin your relationship.   Show notes at sarahmikutel.com  Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free Conversation Cheat Sheet with simple formulas you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you’re in a meeting or just talking with friends.Download it at sarahmikutel.com/blanknomore and start feeling more confident in your conversations today.

The podcast media host Blueberry, and that is B-L-U-B-R-R-Y, they don't believe in E's. They are looking for a nominee for Favorite Woman podcaster. And I would really love to spread the word about podcasting step by step so I can help more people podcast. So if I feel like I've helped you and I'm one of your favorite podcasters, I would appreciate it from the bottom of my heart if you would nominate me. So nominations close March 7th, but there's no need to wait until then. I have included direct links in the show notes. And you can also get there by going to sarah micotel.com slash fave. And once again, this is to tell Blueberry that you love this podcast and me as a host. And this feels kind of weird promoting myself in this way. But I really believe in the show. I would just love to be able to help other people. people in the same way. Thank you very much. And on with the show. Have you been wanting to start a podcast for a while now, but something's holding you back? Maybe it's fear of putting yourself out there or confusion about the technology. I'm Sarah Mikital and on podcasting step by step,

I'll break down how to podcast with a little loving motivation to give you the skills and the confidence you need to finally launch that show of your dreams. Let's get started. So you've been thinking of starting a co-hosted podcast, or maybe somebody has come to you and wants you to be part of their show. Should you do it? In today's episode, my friend Lynn Limburg joins me to discuss the absolute essentials you must have in place for a co-hosted podcast to succeed. Because if you get it wrong, the consequences go far beyond just having a bad show.

A co-hosted podcast gone wrong can ruin your relationship. So Lynn hosts the solo show Couch to Active, but she also co-hosts the Lindbergh's podcast with her husband, Eric Lindberg. And yes, he is related to Charles Limburg. I really love this conversation with Lynn. And even if you're not interested in a co-hosted podcast right now, you are going to learn a lot about how to use feedback to improve your show and your relationships. Now into my conversation with Lynn. Welcome, Lynn. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.

Oh, thank you very much, Sarah. It's an honor to be here. We have been podcast Accountability Buddies for a while. And when I met you, you had a solo show called Couch to Active. And now you are co-hosting a show with your husband. So what made you decide to take on the second podcast? I'm crazy. And don't want to have a life. No. No, my husband and I, we both work for me. home, we're both entrepreneurs. My husband's Eric, Eric Lemberg, grandson of Charles Lemberg, and he's in obviously the aviation industry. And we'd been looking for a long time for something that we could do together to give us a platform, but it had to pass the very important test of, could we do this and stay married. And we, and we, we. And we. We know, we're both idea people. He even more than me and, you know, a million ideas. And then one day he came and he's like, hey, I was talking to, you know, the director of the foundation. And he was thinking we should do a podcast. And I told him no, because I see the podcast you do and I see how much work it is. And I looked at my husband, Eric, and I was like, oh, my gosh, that's exactly. We've got to do this. So that was really the inception of I've seen a lot of co-hosted podcasts fall apart. And I think it's because one of them is much more into it than the other, or they didn't really set out any roles or like roles and responsibilities up front. And so one person ended up like doing everything. So what, did you guys do anything up front to sort of like figure out what you wanted the show to be and who was going to be doing what? Yeah. Yeah, we sure did.

And really me having my solo show up and running for probably six or eight months before we did this was really a critical piece in making the co-hosted show success because succeed because I knew what it took. I knew, like I had all the one-on-one questions answered already. And, you know, I mean, he was, and he's not the technical person. I'm totally the technical person. So one thing that was critical for us was role definition. Who's doing what and when and who's accountable for what. And for us, what that looked like is I said to him, I said, I have to be the executive producer.

I have to own everything. So I do it all. I produce it all. And he just comes on, I mean, I essentially roll out the red carpet for him. But it works for us. because then there is not this back and forth of who's supposed to do what. And then he does do, he brings in some really incredible guests on the show. So he's got a lot of really great, a bigger networking connection than I do.

So he helps with that a lot. And he's a really good docker and a really good storyteller. And so that helps it to work. We've had our share of fireworks. You know, of when we first started the show, we realized that he is a really good speaker-talker, and I'm a really good interviewer, not the other way around. So when we did an episode on Who's Eric Lemberg? And I asked him a bunch of questions, and he answered, it was a beautiful episode.

It was fabulous. Then when we went to record mine, who's Lynn Lindbergh, it freaking sucked. Can I say that on your podcast? Yes, you can. I don't think that's explicit. Okay. It was horrible because he didn't know how to interview people and I didn't know how to be interviewed. So we were both working in our weak spot. And we had no idea. Like it was just this like, why is this one so hard? So we've really what's helped is we've had to stay committed to supporting each other. We had to stay committed to taking that feedback from each other because we banter, but sometimes I can just be mean to him. Really? I can't picture you being mean to anyone. Oh, well, we were interviewing somebody and he

went off on a tangent, and I said to him, I said, this podcast is not all about you, you know. During the interview? Yes, during the interview. I know, that was bad. I edited it out. So I was like, wow, that was really mean. But good feedback for like a later time that listening is very important for a podcaster. It is. Yes, exactly. Exactly. And so we've worked through, we've worked through that. Even with all of that, I still always underestimate how much work these are. And so we actually were. on episode number 43 we just published and we just made a decision to go from every week because we've gone 43 weeks without missing a single week. And so now the next five episodes we're going to do every other week and then we're going to take the summer off and do a season break. So, because at first we're like, we're going to go, you know, eight years through because we have a date eight years ahead of us. Wow, that's so ambitious. I know, 400 episodes.

rah-rah, you know, and now we're like, wait a minute, wifey's going to end up in a padded room with, you know, this has got to be fun because, you know, you can, as he says, make as much as some poets doing a podcast. Yeah, yeah, for a lot of us, a lot of these things are passions. And it can be a good thing to test out different frequency rates. You know, maybe you want to start out weekly, but it doesn't fit into your life and so you want to go.

bi-weekly, you know, or start doing seasons. I think that's fine. And I've noticed one of my podcasts, I now have three. It takes people a while to actually catch up. I think there's so much content out there these days that I don't think anyone wants to listen to a daily podcast unless it's like two minutes long. I think people are happy. I think weekly is a great consistency, but I think my weekly is also fine. Yeah. I think, yeah, it can take people, a lot of people who tell me, who are like my biggest fans of my show are like, oh, I just listened to the such and such episode, which I put out like a month ago, you know, so people aren't always, as soon as we put it out, consuming it. People, I mean, that's the beauty of podcasts. They come at their own time.

Yeah. Well, and that's exactly part of what's happening with the Limburgs podcast, with my husband and I is, you know, when we first started, our audience was a lot smaller, and I was so focused on producing these things that I didn't do a really good job of marketing them. So now during the season break, we're going to focus on marketing and, you know, letting folks know what's out there so those can get more consumption. And then my individual one, it was interesting because it was, full hour every week. And then I, now it's five minutes, five days a week. And that's way easier for me to produce. And I'm actually doing it more successfully. So yeah. Enjoying it more? Tons more. All right. So you said that you and your husband are good at giving each other feedback.

Yeah. What's your approach to this when you're not in the middle of an interview? I saw you glare at me during the interview. I'm like, What? I wasn't glaring. That's kind of hard when you know each other so well. You know, I think part of it is we, it's our relationship. We knew we could do this. We're a second marriage. The podcast is the theme of second chances.

So we've really learned a lot of how to not do relationships well. And we have this thing in our relationship and in our family of, feedback is okay. And sometimes, actually, you can just have a bad day and it's okay. And sometimes one person can just be just a grouchy, awful, you know, for a half a day and it's okay. It doesn't mean the relationship is at risk. It doesn't mean the sky is falling down. It doesn't mean we're, you know, on the way to the courthouse to get divorced. It just means we're human. And I think when we really came to that point and where we could trust each other in that and remind each other that, hey, sometimes we're just like, rah, you know, and it's okay or it's going to be okay.

Yeah. Then it really makes it not as scary at all. I don't think, you know, 15, 20 years ago, I could have done that. Even with the right person, it just, I hadn't matured to that level yet. And so grateful that I'm I'm there now. Yeah. I love that. And I think that's true of a lot of women.

We're too afraid to, like, say what's really on our minds. Then we get a little bit older and just let it fly. It's what we're afraid to say what we're on our mind. And I think we, I hate stereotype. So just, you know, take this with a grain of salt. But I think we underestimate how sensitive the men in our lives are. and how, even though sometimes they can seem like a manly man, they tend to be way more aware of or sensitive to feedback. And so I've learned to just be as gentle as possible without, you know, not walking on eggshells, but to be, you know, gentle and loving and compassionate because he's a sensitive guy.

Yeah. Well, we should try to be gentle and loving and compassion to everyone, I guess. Exactly. Exactly. Do you guys give feedback in the moment? Do you like have certain times of the week where you're like, let's have a family meeting? Oh, for the podcast? No, not just for the podcast, but like giving each other like open communication and like talking about like what's on each other's minds. Do you, is it like in the moment you're doing this or do you, is it more planned? It's in the moment. especially because we both work from home. So we spent, yeah, so when, you know, when one of us goes on a business trip and people say, oh, you're going to miss them. I'm like, no, thank God, I got a couple days to myself. And it's all good. Like, we're like that, and that's all good, you know. Yeah.

Some, I think a lot of why the in the moment works for us is because that's really how he is. He is an in the moment person. And that's partly what makes him a great speaker, is he can just be right there with you in the moment. He's, I think for somebody else, maybe they would be more comfortable with a, you know, hey, let's meet once a week and sit down and discuss and give each other formal feedback. And that would just not fly, mainly just because of his personality, really. Yeah. And people have misunderstandings too, right? Maybe somebody like thought, you said something. And I have a very soft talker. And then sometimes people will completely think I said something like completely different.

I'm like, oh, my God, you thought I said that? And then I wonder how many things people thought I said. And I had no idea. Like, how many people have I offended because they thought I said something and I didn't say it? Oh, oh, we have, oh my gosh, we miscommunicate all the time. And part of it is he uses like way too many, what is it, prepositions, this, that, them, us, them. And I'm like, okay, what is that? Who is they? Who is us? Who is them? Is us me? Is, you know, like, don't use any prepositions. And he's like, but that's so hard.

I'm like, but I'm really, I'm trying to understand what you're saying. But when you say us, but you mean the guys, not you and me, it means something totally different, you know? So, yeah, yeah, we, we've had a few times where we're like, oh, good thing we figured that one out. So speaking specifically about the podcast, are you guys quite consistent in like your recordings together about when you're doing it? Does it depend on just when your interviewees pre? How does that work? Yeah. So we have a calendar that we work together and look at guests. And so we have an online sign up form that our guests, it's a secret form that we send them a secret link and they go to it and the website says, welcome to the inner circle, you know.

So that is been a beautiful, beautiful thing because our calendars are all connected and it only shows free time when both of our calendars are free. Total pain in the rear end is set up, but it was so good to do. What scheduler do you use? Dobsado. So it's a lot of people use like calendarly or, others. This one I can also, when they sign up, they also do a form of like, I have a microphone or I'll be in a quiet room. You know, they can fill out a form. If I want them to sign a release, they can have that. If for other parts of the business that you can invoice. But Dubsado,

it's beautiful. So when those are scheduled, that really, that tail wags the dog in a big way. and then we have a weekly two-hour block that every Tuesday afternoon we sit down and talk podcast stuff. That is more for me and my sanity because I will go, I have to be able to compartmentalize it a little bit. I can't be talking podcast at breakfast and then at dinner and then during a commercial break of a show at 9 o'clock at night. I mean, like, there's like, so one of the things that's helped keep me sane is, is, you know, sometimes at 6 o'clock, I'll be like, okay, baby, I'm shut down. And so, like, work is not invited this evening, you know, I just need a break. So that's, that's a big piece of it for me, too. Good for you for having boundaries, Lynn, and, like, time blocking and

just being very mindful of what you're doing when. It's survival skills. And it's born out of going crazy and then meeting with a coach and having the coach say, okay, honey, why are you doing this to yourself? You are more empowered than you realize you are. Yeah. And me saying, oh, oh, you're right. I don't have to be at everybody else's whim. I can set boundaries and it actually makes it good for everybody else too. So, I think if I was able to just like random everything and the rando life was great, I wouldn't have put these boundaries in place. But no, I have to manage my stress. I have to manage my mental health. And so those are things, quite honestly, that's why those are there.

Yeah, I love it. I love it. So do you have any other advice for either a couple or best friends who are like, I think we should start a podcast, what would you, what advice would you give to them? I would say be really, really confident that that is what you want to do and that the relationship can weather it. Because even though I think my husband and I have this extraordinary ability to work together and part of it's because I own it all. I'm the producer. There's still some tough times. I mean, there's still times where we've both been like little middle school kids kind of mad at each other

about, you know, you rambled too long and now I have to edit it all out and that's extra work for me and, you know, and you kept backing up and away from the microphone, you kept backing up away from the microphone and then you kept coming up way too close to the microphone and that makes it an editing nightmare, you know, I mean, those kind of things over time really do wear you out. So I would just really, really be cautious to make sure that the relationship can weather that. Yeah. Yeah, you need to have a good relationship. You have to be comfortable, like giving each other feedback. And also, everyone wear headphones. So you can hear whether you are too close to the mic or too far away. Yeah, exactly. The headphone things is critical.

All right, Lynn, is there anything else you want to say about? co-hosting a podcast. I love saying I have a podcast with my husband. It's awesome. And tell us a little bit more about what this is. What's the name of your show? Yeah. So this one is, it's called the Limburgs, and we are the Limburgs. That's our last name. Like I mentioned, my husband's the grandson of Charles Limburg. And we get to meet a lot of amazing, extraordinary people in our lives. And we bring them on to talk not really so much about how awesome they are. We really bring them on to talk more about what were hardships in their own lives and second chances they had. How are they helping to bring second chances to the world and

the planet? And it's a really meaningful, heartfelt, we joke and call it, it's our therapy on the couch that we just publish out to everybody. We have. We've had a couple things come out that we didn't know about each other. And we're like, all right. Yeah. Oh, yeah. About, like, sexual harassment in our 20s, both of us getting sexually harassed and some details we'd never knew about from each other.

Oh, interesting. Well, that's what we said. And we're like, wow, okay. Well, now we just told everybody, you know. Yeah, but I absolutely love it. And our next piece is we are doing a app so folks can download the Limburg's app. And so then they can have easier access to all the episodes of the podcast without getting lost in the abyss of everyone else's podcast players. So we're excited about that.

So tell me a little bit more about your guests. So your theme is second chances. Are there particular kinds of guests that you're going after? Is there a big aviation theme due to Charles Limburg? Yeah. How does that work? Yeah. So we try to make it not too aviation theme, but obviously people are curious.

And then we've got connections with the XPRIZ Foundation, which is helping to solve some of the biggest challenges on the planet. So we brought in the founder of XPRIZEYES, and we brought in the president, Anusha Ansari, who's also an astronaut. And then we brought in like a gentleman who was part of a CAPS program, executive director of a CAPS program, which is a high school program. and he spent most of the time talking about his anxiety disorder and how he manages it, and yet he's still this incredibly successful person who can help change lives of high schoolers. So, yeah, lots of just, it's kind of a variety, kind of a variety show with the theme of second chances. And why that second chances specifically? Is it because it's second marriages, second careers, all of the above?

Yeah, I think it's developed over time and it's become more and more deeper. It started with, yes, second marriage. Eric, when he was 20, he got rheumatoid arthritis. By the time he was 30, he couldn't walk without a cane. And when he was 32, he had got a double knee replacement. And so he really got a second chance at a physical life. Do you mean now he's much better? Yeah, now he's out.

He's not home right now. He's backcountry skiing. Okay. Well, that's quite a second chance. A huge second chance, a huge theme in his life. But then as we have slowly seen more the issues on our globe and in our nation, the United States, where we are, we're beginning to realize and believe that part of the healing that will come between nations and people and parties is going to come from figuring out how to give each other a second chance. And the more people we interview, the more we're realizing that there's forces out there who are profiting and benefiting from keeping people divided and keeping people.

Yes. Amen, Lynn. Yes. and attacking each other. And I mean, we brought on Eric Rasmussen, who wrote a white paper for NATO and talked through all kinds of data and statistics about bots and fake accounts and swinging elections. And we're like, oh, my gosh. And we're realizing the only way the two, you know, sides that are pointing at each other, no matter what the topic, is you got to put the arrows down and be able to figure out how to give each other a second chance and figure out that actually, you're probably, not as far apart as you think you are. Podcasting for world peace. Let's just all have conversations and talk to each other.

Exactly. Yeah. And talk to the other. Talk who is your other and figure out how to talk to them. Because really, when was the last time you changed your mind about something important to you, right? To be honest with you, I changed my mind all the time. Maybe not about like super serious things.

But I love it, actually, when I'm listening to a podcast and they change my mind about something. Cool. I think that's great. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. You're at the very tip of that iceberg of lead the way. Teach us how to do that more and more.

Because we need that. We're starving for it as a nation or as a globe. We're sick of this. We know what we're seeing isn't real online. But it's so, you know, when you're scrolling through and you, you know, it's so-and-so's baby. and then now this political ad and you keep scrolling, like your brain can't. Your brain can't keep separate between what's real and what could be a bot or what could be, you know. Yeah.

I don't consume much social media anymore these days, so maybe that's why my mind feels a little bit more clear and open. That's awesome. I do a lot. Like the news, I like to call it the Crisis News Network. Like, you know, they're just, yeah, yeah, that's a whole other. whole other topic. When there is, there's so much good happening in the world, too. And that's part of what we do is we find out who's doing the good and how, and especially if there's something that can be emulated that somebody can take and replicate. You know, that's what we

really love to shine. Yeah. I love it. Well, Lynn, how can we find out more about you? You can Google me pretty easily, Lynn Lindberg. I'm one N. And Lynn, L-I-N-D-B-B-E-R-G-H and Couch to Active, the Lemberg's that'll all come up. I feel very moved right now. Oh, you know what? I love what we've been doing with the Lundbergs. We brought in a woman this last episode we did. She's the executive director of a community effort called Raising Resilience.

And she just brings in the mission is raising the resilience. of our kids and teens. And they're learning more and more that a big piece of that is teaching the parents how to take better care of themselves. And yeah, I thought that was really, really fascinating. And they bring in authors and movies. And she just brought in a movie, an indie flick about anxiety in teens and families. And so we talked a lot about that.

It was fascinating. It was just like, yeah, there's a lot of, and her, what she did, she talked about how somebody else could do the same thing in their community, you know, just get a couple of policemen, get a firefighter, get a local counselor, you know, have a meeting at the school or the library, and boom, there, you know, you've started with no budget in one person. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's a great idea. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think we're, I think we're starving for goodness. I agree.

I agree. And I think it's something that we need to be mindful of. Like, it's so easy to get worked up and want to get on a soapbox and just like rant and scream because we just feel like this world is spinning it out of control. And I think when we're doing our podcast, you know, there's a time and place for that sometimes. But you should also keep in mind like, how do you want people to feel when they're coming. away from your podcast. So I definitely believe that we need to speak out against injustice, but I also want people to feel something hopeful about the world as well.

So just like keeping that top of mind. Yeah. Yeah. And things like, okay, on a total teeny tiny microcosm note, right, on Couchdictive, I talked about the biggest loser show that's out again. Okay, I hate it. There's so many people railing against it. They're like, ah, blah, blah.

And in my little six-minute podcast on it, I told them, like, you know, don't watch it. Don't recommend it. Here's why. But much respect for anybody who's ever doing anything for their health and wellness, even if it's misguided. And, you know, we can't get our panties all in a bunch about, you know, every little tit and tat. And I said, and if I, you know, rail off about, oh, we should protest the biggest loser. Well, then I'm raising your cortisol. And cortisol stores fat.

And so I'm actually contributing to not a healthy place for you or the listener. If I, yeah. And so we're just, we're trying to do just, Eric and I are trying to do more and more of that of like, how do you have really big impact without just doing the easy polarize and, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And I think your biggest loser example was perfect. you addressed what the problem was, how dangerous that show can be, but also congratulating people for like trying to do things the healthy way. And, you know, I think that's a good message.

It is. Yeah, the needs there. People are trying to figure it out. And if we waited until we knew we had the perfect solution, I mean, we would never get there because we're still trying to figure out if butter is good or bad for us. I mean, geez. It changes every week, doesn't it? I know. It sure seems that way. Cale, kale's the superfood. Wait, wait, kale has something bad for you in it. Don't eat too much. No, don't drink coffee.

Wine's good. No, it's bad. Exactly. Whatever. We're all going to die. Yeah. Yeah. That was a really fun conversation.

Yeah. That was great. That was really great. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Sarah. This is a pleasure. What a wonderful.

conversation. To summarize, if you want to co-host a show, you need to be realistic about your relationship with a potential co-host and your time commitments and your own behavior. So this person might be really fun to hang out with, but are they the type who is going to show up week in and week out? Do they want this as much as you do? You really both need to want to be part of the show. And chemistry is key, and that doesn't mean that you need to agree on everything. In fact, it's really fun if you can have different opinions on things and debate things. And that's how movies suck us in a lot when you've got those two pairings. One of them is zany, the other one's straight-laced.

Maybe you've got the wise older sister and younger sister who's just trying to figure it all out. So it's really nice when people can bring different ideas, different places in life, different energies. That makes for a really interesting show. You're also going to want to set up a system for recording and also discussing your show. So get it on the calendar. When exactly are you going to produce this podcast? And it really helps if you do it in a consistent way. So you might know, okay, every Tuesday we're sitting down to record or at the first of the month we're going to bang out three episodes. And you need to know who is doing what. So set up roles and responsibilities that you're both going to be happy with. For Lynn, this wasn't 50-50. She's happy doing a lot of the work. She likes being the executive producer. And then her husband, Eric, is the one who finds the really great guests and is a really great storyteller. So they both before the podcast even started, they knew what their strengths were. And of course, as you're doing your podcast, you learn different things about each other and what works and what doesn't. But it really

helps if you start upfront saying, okay, you're going to do this. I'm going to do that. We're going to come together on this day. And finally, as Lynn said, communication and feedback is essential. When something isn't working or can be improved, talk about it, and accept the feedback with the assumption that the giver has positive intent. They're not trying to hurt us or upset our feelings. They're just giving positive feedback on what could work better. If you have all of those elements in place, you are going to have a fantastic co-hosted podcast. Okay, thank you so much for listening. Once again, Blueberry is looking for your favorite female podcaster. You can nominate the host of this show, that's me, Sarah Micatel,

by clicking on the link in the show notes, or by going to sarahmicatel.com slash fave, and that's F-A-V-V-Fave. Nominations close soon, so if you have a moment to do it right now, I would love you even more than I already do. Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free conversation sheet sheet with simple formulas that you can use. So you can respond with clarity, whether you're in a meeting or just talking with friends. Download it at sarahygotele.com slash blank no more.