Influential Introvert: Communication Coaching for Professionals with Performance Anxiety - How to Start Your Podcast Editing Side Hustle

Episode Date: March 6, 2020

Steve Stewart started listening to podcasts while driving around for his job as an internal auditor for the fast food chains Hardee’s and Carl’s Jr. More than a salvation from boredom, Steve loved that he could learn from podcasts while he was at the wheel. Eventually he started his own show: Money Plan SOS and became known as THE podcast guy at FinCon, a conference “helping financial influencers and brands create better content, reach their audience, and make more money.” Soon, people from this conference started asking Steve for help with podcast editing, thus launching a podcast editing career Steve  fell in love with. In this episode, Steve talks about how he nurtured his podcast niche to build the podcast editing career of his dreams. Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free Conversation Cheat Sheet with simple formulas you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you’re in a meeting or just talking with friends.Download it at sarahmikutel.com/blanknomore and start feeling more confident in your conversations today.

Are you headed to Podfest 2020 this week? I will be there and I would love to meet you. I just set up a little meet and greet in the Hova app that you heard Steve and I mentioned last week. So if you want to find it, go into the Hova app, scroll down to the bottom and click on Community, then click Meetup and then click on our meetup. So I named it Aspiring Podcasters Hangout for podcasting step-by-step listeners. And just click join and then I will see you there. Have you been wanting to start a podcast for a while now, but something's holding you back? Maybe it's fear of putting yourself out there or confusion about the technology. I'm Sarah Mikital and on podcasting step by step, I'll break down how to podcast with a little loving motivation to give you the skills and the confidence you need to finally launch that show of your dreams.

Let's get started. We are back with my friend Steve Stewart, a former podcaster turned professional podcast editor. Now, Steve sort of stumbled into this career and he ran with it because he discovered he absolutely loves editing audio for other people so he can help podcasters shine. If you are interested in starting a podcast editing side hustle or a full-fledged editing career like Steve, stay tuned for his sage advice on how to get your business off the ground by building relationships. Now into my conversation with Steve. Tell me about your transition from podcaster to podcast service provider.

Yeah. What was your podcast? The podcast was Money Plan SOS. It was about budgeting, saving, investing, getting out of debt. It started in November 2010, and it lasted all the way through September of 2015. I actually recorded the 200th episode at FinCon 2015, which is kind of a perfect little closure. and the idea was I was going to relaunch that thing as a different show because I had put restrictions on myself as far as what I could do there. And instead of just rebranding, I'm just like, I'm going to close the doors on this one, we'll retire it, start a new show.

In the meantime, I had been in this community, that FinCon community, encouraging people to start podcasts because it was still pretty small back then. People were getting interested, but they just wouldn't pull the trigger. And I was like, start a podcast, start a podcast. I was speaking about it. And a couple of well-known bloggers got together and they were talking for months about starting a podcast together. And they were like, you know what, we've got to get off the pot. Let's do this thing. We know Steve.

We like Steve. We trust Steve. Let's call him and see if he'll help us out. I had just left the day job a few months prior to that. And what day job was that? I was an internal auditor for CKE. CK.E is the parent company of Hardee's and Carl's Jr. So I'd go around and just, anyway, we won't go there.

Lots of travel. I'm curious. Lots of travel involved in that job. That's where I found podcasting, was listening. And I found a way to plug my iPod into my car, which saved so much. What were you listening to back then? At first, it was some tech TV with Lealaport, or not tech TV, but whatever his show was, this week in tech, probably this week in tech. And then Dave Ramsey, he put his radio shows on Apple.

Back then it was iTunes. Those are the starting points. And then I found some other financial ones that I was interested in. I was like, oh, this is cool. And money guy from Brian Preston and Bo Hanson. And that just kind of filled up my day of driving because I just couldn't put up with FM or AM radio anymore. Listening to music was okay. But, you know, that gets repetitive because it's songs you've already heard.

Whereas I was learning while I was driving. That was the benefit there. So while you were driving around and listening to these podcasts, did it ever occur to you like, this is something I could do? Or this is something I want to do? Yes, it did. I had discovered podcasts in 2007, so it wasn't original back then. They've already been out a couple of years. But I have been for people, you know, people can't see, but I've got a bunch of vinyl records right behind me.

I have a wall of records. I was a DJ for three decades. So I knew how to use a microphone. I knew how to use gear and record and all that stuff. So that kind of helped me to be able to say, you know what, I've got the skills. to be able to do this myself, at least the recording and editing part of it. Now, getting an RSS feed together and all the stuff, that was kind of a mystery. So I did have to hire and get some help from that, get some coaching.

That was back in 2010 when I finally did launch a show. So I was thinking I could do it, and then I had a plan to do it, and then I started putting some pieces together, but I never actually pulled the trigger for like two years. It was ridiculous. Yeah, common story, though. A lot of us are like that. So what came first, DJing or auditing? Oh, it was DJing. Yeah, DJing was high school.

I was one of the founding members of a breakdance group in the suburbs of Chicago, and I was the DJ. My best friend was the graffiti artist. We had another guy who was the muscles. I cannot imagine this. Well, it's because if you look at me now, you have no idea that I could actually get on the floor and dance on my back. So it doesn't look like I could do it. Well, you're just like such a sweet nature. your dad type. I always think of you as a big family man. I can't imagine you being part of like a

breakdance crew in where did you say Detroit? No, no, no, suburbs of Chicago. So now I'm that guy at the wedding who will get on the dance floor and he's completely out of shape and you're like, what's this guy doing? And he breaks, you know, doesn't pop and lock. And I'd be that guy probably. Oh, God, I love it. Well, we've got to see these moves in Orlando. Oh, make sure. Make sure I stay away from the party. So, okay, so you were driving around, listening to podcasts as your salvation to give you, like, some education and to just prevent you from being like bored as heck. And then you became a podcaster. And then you were the inspiration to other people, it sounds like.

Yeah, we never did finish that story. Yeah, let's go back to it. So the day job was like, that specific day job was the year 2000, found podcasting 2007, started podcasting myself, for that financial coaching business that I was growing, which I hadn't mentioned that yet. This was your side hustle? Yeah, it was the side hustle at the time during the day job because what are you going to do in the hotel rooms at night? Watch television? What a waste of time?

I started working on a financial coaching business and then the podcast was just the marketing arm of that. Then 2015, it wasn't doing what it was supposed to do, so I was retiring it. But then in the middle of that, these two financial bloggers got connected with me and said, hey, we just want to hit record. We do the rest. And I was thinking, sure, I've got the time. I had then just left the day job a few months earlier, had all this extra time now that I was spending doing the financial coaching business, it was now my day job. And it wasn't going anywhere. So I thought, sure, I got the time.

I have to charge you for it. They're like, absolutely, Steve, you're worth the time. And I was way undercharging myself. Oh, my gosh. But I didn't know any better back then. Did you think you were starting a business? Well, sure. It was a side hustle.

It was going to go on my taxes, but it wasn't going to be. an LLC or anything like that. The editing thing, I mean not coaching editing. Okay. Yeah, the editing. Yeah, the editing thing was just a side hustle thing. Just like, you know, any other type, part-time job, but it was something you could do yourself, an entrepreneurial journey. And it was like, yeah, I love to serve podcasters. And these are two big names in our space. I'd love to be able to connect and serve with them all the time. So it was December of 2015. They launched January of 2016. And it would, it would, it would, it would, because, you know, it, it, Because they had huge email lists, it just exploded.

And it really got people in the community, in that FinCon community, the financial blogger community, talking about, oh, Steve edits for other people, which never existed before. We know them. I hate editing. So let's call him. So by June of 2016, just six months later, my dance card was full. I couldn't do anything else. I had to give up the other podcast that I started, which will remain unnamed.

I had to give up the financial coaching business that I had started building eight years. years prior and this editing thing just took over my life. And I'm really happy it did because I love it. What do you love most about it? Oh, gosh, that's a great question. I hadn't thought of answering. I think I like the fact that I can make a lot of the people that work that I work for, my clients are my peers or my friends and I get to make their art better.

They're not going to go in and do the deep dive editing like I do. trusting me to take it and polish it up and make it better. And I do believe that, especially in this much more competitive space of podcasting now, where there's, I think we're, we're about to peak 900,000 podcasts in Apple Podcasts Directory now, it's getting crowded. And the shows that stand out are the ones that are produced better, sound better, the performance goes over better to the listener. They're going to be the ones that come back. And it's easier to keep somebody coming back to your show than to find a new listener. Like anything in business, right?

It's better to retain a customer than to try to find a new one. Yep, yep. So your niche has always been finance. Were you very mindful of keeping it that way rather than accepting people from all over the place? I had first started just because it was easy to get more clients who already knew who I was. because they already knew. I was already in the community. I was a member of their community.

I was part of them. But I was getting clients who were outside of the community. A couple of doctors, a real estate sales guy. I had some other ones like that. I eventually shed them and gave them to other clients or other people because I did want to make my niche focused on this FinCon community,

which is paid off in dividends because I am now the podcast guru. They actually gave me a t-shirt at FinCon last year. It says the podcast guru on it. FinCon podcast guru. And everybody looks to me like I'm some kind of an expert in that community about podcasting. There's other people who know a lot about podcasting there.

I've tried to help a couple other people get into editing podcasts for other people. They're my direct competition in my own niche. And yet I'm still helping them out. It's kind of weird. It's because I don't have to be the only guy. This thing is growing leaps and bounds. So I can focus even deeper on my niche if I want to. And with my dance card being full already,

there's nothing keeping me from growing this thing or just letting other people get into the space as well and having them be on my team rather than being my direct competition. I love that. That's a great way to do business. So Steve, you mentioned that you're still going to FinCon, even though your business is podcasting now

and not necessarily finance and financial blogging. So can we talk a little bit about how we can go to conferences to network for business and to like find new clients like what's your strategy there? Oh, it's those conversations the hallway, absolutely, because there's going to be a time where you meet somebody and you just click. And it's not going to be the first person and it might not be the last person. It could be anybody in the middle there. And it may not be somebody who hires you for six months. One of my biggest clients, the podcast that has one of the biggest downloads of any show that I edit for.

We talked about, you know, they had approached me at FinConn 2017, and it wasn't until January the following year that they hired me. That's fine because that was, that was the, you know, it's a long play. A lot of this is long play as long. I guess I just want to talk through how these nurturing relationships works. You don't strike me as the type of guy who would you like the hard sell or like chase people around. So they approached you because you built your name because you picked your niche. And then you just had like a good chat with them and, you know, they knew what you were all about.

I've always had a giving spirit in how I approach things because for me, just to go up and say, hey, I'll be your editor and sell them on a cold call. It just makes me think of those people on Facebook or like, oh, I'll get you 400, you know, reviews in 24 hours. You know, nobody wants that. Nobody wants that. And if I can help somebody get better and then they just happened to mention it to somebody else that I helped, you know, help them out, just grows my image, my credibility, I guess you'd say. And that was all came from a giving spirit. There's nothing wrong with giving and helping other people,

which these conferences are all built around, helping other people do better in their own things. And I think the underlying cause, you know, I had an underlying cause I still do with helping the FinCon community, and that's helping to promote and improve financial literacy, because there's not enough of that in the world. And in the podcasting space, I'm doing the same thing. but about podcasting, helping podcasters do better and make better content and be able to connect

with their audience better. And the only way you can do that is you help people who are just like you. So you have been editing podcasts for quite a while now, but this is editing is something that really intimidates a lot of people. Just the sound waves, just really freak them out. What advice would you give to somebody who's just getting started? What are like, what's the easiest way to get started? First of all, if you've done any kind of video editing or anything with any kind of editing program on your computer, just go ahead and try using that a little bit. I do have people tell me that they edit their podcast in Camtasia, which I think is horrible. A horrible way to do it, I should say. It's not horrible.

It's just a horrible way to do it. Camtasia, is that a presentation software? Yeah, it's a screen capture software. So it's more built for video, and it's not going to be as detailed as what you can get with, even in audacity, things like that. What I don't want someone to do is to try and learn a new DA, a new digital audio workstation, a new software if they don't have to. What we want to do is get past the problem of using the tool and get to the point where you're getting the job done. You need to ship the job. You need to get it done.

Otherwise, you'll quit podcasting. And that's the worst thing you do is just quit podcasting if you're editing your own show or if you're editing for other people as well. So get to know what you're using, but then also entertain the idea of other softwares that, do what you need it to, which again, with some of these, like Hindenberg's got some great tools that are built into it that automatically will do the normalization for you. It's amazing. It's just bringing in there. Volume levels go up. It's fantastic. And then you can invest some time over the next days, weeks, months, learning some new tool that will then make you a better editor or producer of your own show or shows for other people at well. What advice would you give somebody

if they are like, you know what, I'm not sure editing is for me. I want to outsource this to somebody. You definitely want to get it off your plate. If you don't know somebody who does it, then I know of a Facebook group where we could post something for them and get them applications from all of the world and all kinds of different people and just filtered through some of the submissions there. It's not that hard to find, no, I shouldn't say it. It's not that difficult to find an editor. It's just finding the right editor. It might be a little more difficult. A lot of people start off with Upwork, but then again, you're just going with sales copy on a page. If you want to have a conversation with a human being and get to know them a little bit, and I do believe hiring an individual is valuable, although there are some larger services out there with, you know, they've got dozens of editors that they outsource to themselves that can do it as well. I don't even know where you could, I mean, there's so many different ways you can start.

Upwork was one, like I said, but I wouldn't go there. There's the companies you can just Google search for and find them there. Or you can reach out to me and I can help you find any one of 5,000 podcast editors who are interested in working with you at different stages of their expertise as well. But giving the project away to somebody else is scary. Yeah. Letting somebody else edit your stuff, it's scary. It's scary for me still to give projects that my clients are paying me to do to the people who I've trained in outsource too. Even though they're doing fantastic jobs and they have been for a couple of.

years now. It's still scary because you lose control. So you've got to get past the scariness part. And you can always review it too before you publish it. But you've got to get some help because the editing and show notes, I think, are the two biggest pain points for any podcaster. Yeah, that and social media, I think, is the third one. Yeah. Social media is optional. Editing, in my mind, not optional. Show notes, not optional. Yeah, editing's not optional for sure. So you bring up a good point about control and trust. And yeah, that's a hard thing, especially when you have a vision in your mind of how you want an episode to go or your overall show to go. So how do you have that conversation with your clients to make sure that everybody's on the same page?

I always have a first conversation with them after we've talked about getting work together, you know, getting together and working together. We always have at least a 30-minute conversation. And it's mostly about format and stuff like that, but they hopefully already generally know what I'm going to be doing. But I will mention, you know, we're going to do a deep dive. We're going to take out the ums and odds,

which they appreciate. And they, the people hire me are paying a premium. I know that sounds bad, but they're paying me a premium to do it. And I do a deep dive at it. I won't just slap the thing together and EQ it for 10 bucks. That's not who I am.

So they already know, it's by the amount that I'm charging them, that I'm going to do a deep dive. edit and the post-processing of the audio, stuff like that, it's that conversation that really makes it clear. I don't actually have any sales copy on my website, and I should probably, but a contract also comes in handy too when you've got a contract, and contract sounds so formal and, you know,

restrictive on what you'll do, but sometimes they really do pay off by having terms and agreements clearly stated to each other, both as a client or as the person, providing the service. That way there's no gray areas. And if there's any gray areas, I make sure that customer service comes first.

If you've got a heart to serve and you go in it first off with saying, I'm going to serve this customer really well, yes, you will be spending more time answering questions that don't have to do with, they'll ask you about their microphone and stuff like that. You'll be doing more stuff for them, but it's going to pay off in retention much, much later and recommendations as well.

Yeah. So do they trust you to do contextual edits? Like if you hear something that sounds like, oh, this would be much better over to like the beginning. Do they trust you to do that? Do they give you notes? Does it depend on the client? You know, I didn't even think about bringing that up. That's such a great point because I don't do that unless I'm told to do that. Now, there are a couple clients that will say, Steve, I trust you, take out anything that's just junk. And it still scares me too because they know what the record. was they were there. So they might have had a dog barking when the Amazon truck showed up and dropped something at the porch. And here I edited it out, but then a half hour later, they refer back to it saying, yeah, when the dog was barking earlier when the Amazon gave, you remember that? Yeah,

and I went to the door. Well, now it's like, I don't remember when that was. I got to go put this back in. So I fear taking out context because A, it's not my responsibility to decide what stays in. B, I don't know if it needs to stay in until I'm done. I'm not going to go through it a second time. It's something that they would have to clearly state to have taken out. And that happens too. Oh, Steve, they said something they thought was kind of off color. Can you take that out? It's political, take it out. Any kind of bleeps take it out. For new podcasters who are just, or new editors, who are just getting into this space, what are some things that you think should be in the contract to protect them.

I hate to protect them part because if you go on with the mindset of you're protecting your client. I was going to ask the flip side after as part two of the question. But we can say it's for both. So I'll start it again. No, no, we'll start it again. Okay. Because I think this is the way I want to answer that question.

Okay. So your question was, as a podcast editor, going with contract to protect them. I actually think that the contract should be written to protect the client. Now, I don't think that you should just ignore the fact that you need to put parameters on what you're going to do. And that's part of your quote system is how much more extra effort will you add to your price tag that they won't take advantage of? If they're going to be calling you every week about stuff, that's time intensive. Make sure that's in your quote. But you're going to go in there with the mindset saying, I'm going to do this for you.

This is all going to be something for you. And I'm going to provide that service. rather than going in there saying, I'm not going to do, I'm not going to do, I'm not going to do. You're serving the customer by giving them a contract.

Says, here's what I'm going to do for you. And those are the fences on your services that you're going to put up. And it doesn't look like a fence. It looks like I'm giving, I'm giving to that person. So the contract could be written in a way where it's more like,

here's what I will do rather than here's what I won't do. Yeah. That's brilliant for any service provider, I think. Very good advice, Steve. And there's always going to be questions that come up later.

just got to be ready for them. Yeah, yeah. Well, Steve, do you have anything else you want to say to the future podcast editors of the world or current? When you start out as a podcast editor or VA serving podcasters, just keep in mind that your quote right now is going to be low. You're not going to be making as much money as you need to. I do think everybody needs to be making at least $20 U.S. every hour of their work. However you charge for that, is a relevant. You need to be able to earn that much because otherwise you could just go flip burgers at McDonald's. But if you're getting started, you need to build that portfolio. Do excellent customer service and deliver on time or early if possible because what that will do is pay off in dividends

later on where your clients are going to brag about you to other people and that other person is going to be the one who's coming on board saying, hey, Steve, somebody told me about you. They say, I should go with you. And now your rates have already went up. So you're going to start to earn more money with every additional client that you bring on. Great advice. Well, Steve, tell us where we can learn more about you. You can learn more about me at steve-stuart.m-E. That's steve-E-W-A-R-T-R-T-M-E. Or if you want to learn more about the podcast editors conference, go to podcast editorsconference.com, March 6th in Orlando. Thank you very much, Steve. Thank you, Sarah. So much great advice from Steve. And my favorite takeaway is write your contract to

protect your client. I really love this giving trust-building language that shows that you care and that you want to help your podcaster grow. They're not just a paycheck. They're a partner. What was your biggest takeaway? Find me on Instagram and let me know. And I am going to see Steve in a few days in Florida at Podfest. And I am for sure going to get him to do some break dancing for us. And hopefully I can get it on video and I'll share it with you. All right, that's all for now. Talk to you next week. Thank you for listening to podcasting step by step. You are now one step closer to launching that podcast you've been dreaming about. But I want to get you even closer. I created a free guidebook for you with actionable worksheets called eight mistakes new podcasters make and how to fix them. To find that, head on over to sarahmicatel.com slash fix. Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free conversation sheet sheet with simple formulas that you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you're in a meeting or just talking with friends.

Download it at sarah micotel.com slash blank no more.