Influential Introvert: Communication Coaching for Professionals with Performance Anxiety - Online Courses: The Best Way to Monetize Your Podcast 

Episode Date: January 24, 2020

The most profitable way to make money through podcasting, for most people, is to promote your own products and services on your show, and what’s a better business than an online course?   I’m an online learning addict. I love taking courses online and even created my own: Podcast Launch Academy.    My guest today is going to teach you how you can start your own online course, which you can use to sponsor your podcast.   Natalie Sisson is the author of the bestselling book The Suitcase Entrepreneur and The Freedom Plan. She’s also founder of the live training program: Launch Your Damn Course Accelerator, which begins it’s next round Jan. 27, 2020.   I interviewed Natalie about online courses for the Postcard Academy podcast, but thought you’d get a ton of value from it, because, as I said, being your own podcast sponsor and promoting your own business is a lot more financially rewarding than having other companies sponsor you.   Another reason that I love online courses is that they’re the best way to support a location independent life, something that my listeners over at the Postcard Academy are very interested in.    Enjoy the show!  Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free Conversation Cheat Sheet with simple formulas you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you’re in a meeting or just talking with friends.Download it at sarahmikutel.com/blanknomore and start feeling more confident in your conversations today.

I can definitively say if you do what I say at the end of the 60 days and we work through it together and you put your all in and you do the work, you're going to come out with course sales and then you can skies the limit. Have you been wanting to start a podcast for a while now, but something's holding you back? Maybe it's fear of putting yourself out there or confusion about the technology. I'm Sarah McGatel and on podcasting step by step. I'll break down how to podcast with a little loving motivation to give you the skills and the confidence you need to finally launch that show of your dreams. Let's get started. The most profitable way to make money through your podcast for most people is to promote your own products and services on your show. And what's a better business than an online course? I myself am an online learning addict. I love taking online

courses and I even created my own podcast launch academy. Another reason that I love online courses is that they are the best way to support a location independent life, which is something that's very important to me and to my listeners over at the Postcard Academy because we don't want to be tied down to a certain place. We want freedom of movement and for our time to be on our own and to be able to make the choices that we want to make in life and not have other people dictate them to us.

And so podcasts are a great way to build your authority and influence in whatever. genre of online course you choose to make. And your course doesn't have to be dedicated to helping other business owners. You'll see a ton of courses out there on like how to run Facebook ads or how to create a marketing funnel. And that's all fine and good. And if you want to go down that road, then that's totally fine. There's room for more courses like that. But people are making money from courses that are teaching all sorts of things, everything from meditation to how to make candied apples. My guest today is going to teach us how we can make our own online courses, which you can then

use to sponsor your own podcast. So yes, I think that you should be your own sponsor. Natalie Sisson is the author of the bestselling book, The Suitcase Entrepreneur and the Freedom Plan. And she also has an online course and training program called the Launch Your Damn course accelerator. And you will find a link to this in the show notes at sarah micotel.com slash Natalie. Now I interviewed Natalie about online courses for my other podcast Postcard Academy, but I thought it would be a great idea to share the episode with you here because, as I said, being your own podcast sponsor and promoting your own business is a lot more financially rewarding than having some other company sponsor you for most podcasters. Now into my conversation with Natalie. Welcome, Natalie. Thank you so much for coming back on the

Postcard Academy. It is so great to be back. Thank you. I have been doing this podcast for a few years now interviewing expats and nomads. And I've realized that the easiest way to make living abroad a reality is to create your own job. And the easiest way to do that tends to be to create an online course, which is why I'm so glad to be talking to you today. So could you tell me a little bit about like the opportunities for creating an online course? Yeah. Oh my gosh. I kind of feel like they're endless. And I know that sounds like a big, broad sweeping statement, but I really do because I'm a firm believer that if you have knowledge and skills and your own unique experiences in life, that you have the ability to teach somebody

else what you know. And I think a lot of people seem to complicate that and think they need to be an expert or have deep, deep industry knowledge or niche knowledge in a particular industry, profession, etc. I also think they need to think that they've had five, 10, 15 years experience. But I know people who are going through something right now, like maybe they're, you know, as you said, traveling the world and they've had a really interesting experience with Airbnb and they've found this kind of cool thing about it that nobody else is really doing. And so they can turn around and go, hey, I want to share this with people. And I'm going to share it in an online course because when you're traveling the world,

as you said, it's just easier to be able to produce a really awesome experience and course and then be able to market it and sell it to people who really need it or want it or are interested or curious and want to learn and not have to be doing one-on-one calls or just, you know, workshops or anything else where you're having to turn up and be somewhere when in fact you just want to be on your laptop with a Wi-Fi connection. So that is why I think there's just so much possibility out there. Yeah, not only that, but it just makes it so much easier to get a visa for where you want to be. Like, it's really not that easy to go to another country and apply for a job there.

But if you can go there with your own job, then they're like, oh, well, sure, come here and, like, spend money on housing and food. And as long as you're not taking any of their jobs, then, like, great, you're welcome. So I think that's great. I'm a course junkie myself. I'm, like, a little too addicted to buying courses. It's, like, become my book replacement, I think. But what are people looking for when they buy a course?

Like, what motivates them to buy? I'd actually just love to reframe and say maybe you're just a learning addict or just somebody who's a lifelong learner. Yes, that's a good way to put it. Yeah. So I think what people are looking for when they buy a course or it speaks to them is often it's right time, right place, right topic. Yeah. So if I was suddenly wanting to become an expert podcaster and you came across my periphery, like I was like, oh, there's Sarah, she's on an email. and then I heard somebody talking about her,

and then I listened to a podcast, and she was on that podcast, and then maybe I saw something on Facebook, et cetera, and wow, she's got this podcasting thing going on, and, you know, it's one of my things in 2020 that I want to launch a podcast. You'd be on my radar, right? And then I'd be interested in what you're doing,

and then I'd say you have this amazing course, and I'd be like, cool, right time, right place. I trust Sarah. I don't know that well, but I think she's doing some cool things. I like the way she's come across to me. I like what she said about her experience. I dig what she's put in her curriculum, for example.

and then there I am. So I think I really am a firm believer because I've seen some awesome courses out there in the world. And like you, I like to learn and develop myself and I do take on specific courses. But over the years, I become way more strategic about what I want to learn and at what time. And it almost always comes across my radar when I'm like, this is the next thing that I would like to upskill in. And then I'm like, oh, and there it is. So I do think you have to be ready for what you're looking for. And then it will actually kind of just come across your radar.

I honestly do. Yeah. So know what you want and then also visibility, people having to build their name out there. So we talked, the last time we talked, we talked about like validation, like coming up with business ideas and validating them to see if they could actually work and make money. So once we've validated like a course idea, what are the next decisions that a potential online course creator has to make? Well, so much of it comes out of the validation. up and being really honest, and I know we talked about that, but if I can just recap briefly, like, the biggest mistake that I see people making is they go, I have an idea for a course. I think this would be really cool.

I'm going to create it, market it, do all the stuff, and then cricket, like, literally nothing. And it is 100% because they didn't actually validate if somebody needs this, if it's going to be useful for the person, if it's even solving that person's problem or a group of people's problem. So, yeah, maybe they should go back and listen to that podcast for sure, because it is, is something that I have missed time and time again in the past. I think it's something that so many business owners miss.

They just don't actually ask what people are struggling with, what they're challenged by, what they need. And then they go and produce something that is not what people actually ask for. So, very important. Hello, this is Sarah popping in here, obviously. Since our talk on how to validate a business idea happened on my other podcast, I'm going to splice in the highlights here. and if you want to hear the whole episode,

you can look up how to design your ideal life, freedom planning with Natalie Sisson, at the Postcard Academy podcast. The very first thing that I would do these days is literally go out and seek out my ideal customer and sell them on it and get them to prepay before it's even there. I know that sounds super like, what are you talking about?

But I would literally be either online looking in groups and seeing people who have a problem that I think I can solve, direct messaging them, calling them, inviting them for a coffee, sitting them down and saying, tell me where you're at, what your challenge is. Okay, if I could offer this, this, this and this to you, would you be interested in that? And if a person's like, yes, and you say, great, it's this much, when can we start?

I mean, quite honestly, it does get that simple. And I see so many people spending tons of time and energy affecting whatever it is they have, never ever validating it with somebody. So I'm so glad you brought that up. And the best way to do that is to just ask and really get an idea of whether people jump at it and they get that like fire in their eyes or their eyes light up and they're like, yes, this is exactly what I need? And then it's tanking the gumption of going, okay, what if I was to coach you on this? Or what if I was to put together this package that allowed us to work together

over four weeks to get this problem solved and putting a price on it and working from there. And a lot of coaches and consultants do this. They might start out for free. But it's really just about understanding that person's problem and then presenting them back with an opportunity or an offer to help them solve it. That is so great and so bold. So I guess you really, before you sit down with the person, have to have it sort of mapped out what you want and have a price in mind so we can actually pitch people if they seem like they're the best fit.

Yeah. I mean, it does sound bold, but it's, as I said, so many people waste so much time, almost like they're validating their own idea on themselves. And a lot of people, let's be honest, start a business because they're trying to solve a problem that pisses them off. but there will be many other people out there who probably have the same problem

and you don't really want to be your own customer. There's a lot of things for and against that, but ultimately at the end of the day, you want to not be your own customer because I think you can get quite skewed in how you view something. Other ways to obviously validate stuff is to go on to Google trends

and look at how many people are typing in keywords or search terms around what you're thinking of offering and seeing what the, I guess, the demographics and the volume of people who are searching on that because it's quite good to be niche when you're starting a business,

but you also don't want to be so niche that there's not an audience for it. And so just looking at what people are searching on there. Also, as I said, jumping in LinkedIn groups, Facebook groups, forums, and just seeing what people are talking about. Is this enough of a problem that you can kind of see that people are talking about it,

especially if you have a solution for it? So some of it's gut instinct, a lot of it's just asking the right questions and then continuing to validate. And I'm a big fan of surveys out to your own audience, out to your friends, to your peers or into some of those groups, just getting a feel for what people are really, really interested in and what they need. Your question from there is, what are the next steps once they've validated? Right.

Yeah, so I kind of teach something completely different to my students in my community. That is, there is absolutely no way you should go and create an entire course, then market it and try to sell it. I would love people to think about a different reframe, which is, why not sell the possibility of what they're going to learn in the course before you even create it? And there's a really, really good reason for this, because I don't want anybody taking 40, 50, 60 or 100 hours to create this entire curriculum and course, put their heart and soul into it, launch it and not sell a thing. And that, unfortunately, I think happens too much versus just think about this for a little and it might be but out there pre-selling your course.

So literally understanding what you want to put in it, who it's for, what problem you're going to solve, what they're going to learn. You're putting this all on a sales page. So it's really clear to them. Even though you don't have it all yet, you don't have it all mapped out, but you have a really clear idea of the steps you want them to learn, what you're going to take them through and what results or transformations they're going to get. And you pre-sell that and say, this is going to be starting in two weeks, four weeks,

one week, whatever it may be. make sure you join now. We're starting on this date. Because that way, you haven't done any of the other work, but what you've done the work in is validating who this is for and how it's going to help them. And then when people start going, yes, fantastic. This is so me.

I love this course. Let's do it. You have now validated that it's a course people want, made money from it so you can put more of that money into making it even more awesome. And you know that more and more people are going to want to buy it because you've already got the first lot of people who have actually signed up to take it.

And from there, you can run it again and again. again, you can put it on Evergreen, you can continue to improve it and make more money. But it just blows my mind, and I've done this myself, why would you put all that effort in if you haven't understood fully or you haven't validated who it is and you haven't even tested whether it's something they want yet? And even with all the validation in the world, sometimes you're off the mark or your messaging is not right or you actually are delivering something of value, but it's not exactly what they need or want. And you could take some stuff out of it, put some stuff in. But that way you've actually validated that up front.

receive money for it and you've got a course that people can't wait for you to deliver. Wow, that's so much great information. I think we're going to have to break it down a little bit. So I love that. And you have a course called Launch Your Damn course and you've got an accelerator coming up. I know. And so I would just love to talk a little bit more about your style of launching a course. Like say I have an idea that I think is great, but I don't have an audience yet. Like, Who would I be able to launch this with? Yeah, it's a great question. So part of the reason why I call my accelerator,

launch your damn course is because I'm so frustrated at how many people give me all the excuses in the world as to why they haven't. And I'm just like, just launch the damn thing. But obviously, what goes with that is what you just said. So the beauty of it is in the first module of that accelerator, I do take people through how to find your ideal avatar and really understand what it is they want. So if you were going through it with me,

you probably wouldn't even need to ask me that question. because you've done your work and you've figured out who you want to help and who you want to contribute to and whose life you want to hopefully change or transform with what you're going to teach them. And because of that, you know who they are, what their interests are, what their struggles are, what books they read, who they listen to on podcasts, what Facebook pages they visit, what LinkedIn groups, they're part of it. I mean, you get an understanding of their will, so you kind of know where they already are hanging out. And that comes from just understanding the demographics, their age, their interests, what their needs are.

And so it does become a lot clearer. For sure, you still have to go out and seek them. But once you actually know who your ideal avatar is, and I would say, like, it could be you, right? I could be like, Sarah and I have this picture of you and I'd be like, loves to travel the world and loves exotic places and thrives on learning. And, you know, I could put all the stuff in about you and that builds a picture of who you are.

And now I kind of know, where the heck am I going to find more of you? Well, you're probably going to be hanging out this Facebook group, and you're probably going to be reading these books, and you're probably going to be asking questions in this forum, etc. And that is where you then get to go and actually just hang out with those people, be there, help them answer their questions. And that's eventually how you can kind of bring them back to you and say, hey, by the way, I know you're struggling with this because I understand you really well. And here's this awesome course that I want to build for you. So hang out and engage with them where they are. Yeah, because everybody is online, almost 24-7 in some part of the world, right? Right.

What are they doing? They're going, hey, guys, I'm having a problem with this. Or, hey, I'm struggling with this. Does anybody know how I can do X, right? And sometimes that's just a simple question. How can I hire? Well, it's not simple. Where should I hire a great virtual assistant?

What book is best for me to read to do this? But when people are like, hey, I'm having a real problem with understanding how to correct my digestive system, who do you recommend, what book should I read, etc. That's the perfect time and place to be there to go, actually, not, by the way, I'm great at this, but hey, tell me more about what you're experiencing. Great. Well, you know, I've actually been teaching this for five or so years. I've had that problem myself. I get you.

I know where you're at. By the way, I've got this course coming up and what I'm trying to do is help people do this, this and this. If that resonates, come check it out. You know, like it, I don't know why people get so scared of that because at the end of the day, if somebody needs your help and you have the actual solution, to help them. It makes sense for me to be able to say it's worthwhile recommending this and looking at it. Yeah, and you can definitely like pitch your services without pitching it. Like I like the way you said it, you know, I tell my clients or like in my course I like teach this. It's a very organic way. And then people can, you don't have to be like, buy my course. It'll just be like, oh, spark something in

their mind like, oh, this course is available to me. I'm going to go check it out. Yeah. Give them the power of choice, but enroll them in it because you already understand what they're going through. That's the thing. You don't have to sell something if you already know what they're going through. You just have to sell the result really in the transformation. And that's what they're after anyway. So the idea of launching a course before you've actually created it sounds so scary to a lot of people, I think. Like, what do you mean exactly? Are you, tell me what an outline for something like that would look like, because you said we're not actually creating the content. we're building the content as we go to see what resonates.

So how does that work? Yeah, and there's a real beauty to building the content as you go. So how it works is, so you've got your ideal avatar, right, know and understand what their challenges are. You now know within your own realm of knowledge and experience and expertise what but you can help them with, how you can contribute. So yes, you would absolutely write up as, well, first of all, you need to get a really great course name that people will remember that short this punchy, that often says what it does

on the tin. So I've seen some fantastic ones out there that I'm like, that sounds like something I don't even understand. What is it that you do versus somebody who's like, you know, like fantastic buttercup cupcakes for vegans. Like, okay, great. Now I know exactly what I'm getting on the tin. And then the next thing you need to really have is a fantastic tagline. Or I would say, yeah, it is a tagline in many ways. It's what I teach inside the accelerator. It's the explains that a little bit more. So what is the result. they're going to get from this. You're going to get freedom from anxiety and you're going to feel calmer. You're going to get a great night's sleep. You're going to be able to understand how to grow your

email list. What is the tagline that kind of is the result or the transformation you're going to receive? And then, yes, for sure, you would outline a skeleton schedule and curriculum. And to me, this doesn't have to be exactly every single thing you're going to teach in it. But if you break it down as a learner, what are the logical steps that person needs to get to and go through in order to learn the outcome that you want to teach in your course? So there's usually like a foundational or an introductory module where you're going to learn X, Y and Z. And then in the first module, or the second module, you're going to take them through the next step they need to know. And then the next step and the next step. And you don't have to have it all perfectly lined out,

but you do have to have an understanding of what steps do they need to learn and how do I want and progress them through this so that it's not overwhelming, that it's not too full-on, and that they're actually taking action and learning as they go so that they get this result at the other end that they want. And people don't need all the details. They just need to know, how is this going to help me? What am I going to learn? And at the end of the day, what am I going to come away with? Is this actually going to help me to be smarter, fitter, lighter, more happy, whatever it may be? And I think that's just something that people need to really get the heads around because you don't have to have created all that up front.

And there are people in my accelerator who for sure are trying to create the content over here. But I'm like one of the best things about running a course, and particularly if you run it live the first time through, like you actually release the content as you go, is the people on that course who are with you are most likely going to tell you what you need to produce. And it might sound really strange, but I've done it in the past where I've run a live call

and I've taught the first module. And then at the end of that call, people have questions. And I'm like, great, go for it. And those questions are usually everything that I probably also still need to include in that module. Does that make sense? Or they might have just completely, I've missed the point, or I've gone in too advanced, which is often being my thing. Or I've put too much in, and now they're just confused.

So your students will often tell you what should be in your course just by the questions that they ask. And whether they need more, whether they need less, is usually an indication of how you can continue to improve your course. So another reason for not creating it up front is to allow them to co-co-es. collaborate and build it with you. So you're still the person who's leading them through it. And I was about to say expert, but I don't love that word. You're the leading learner, as I like to call it. But having them dictate and help you create it as you go is one of the most powerful ways to build a course that people are really going to love. So that might mean that what you thought was module T to or what you were going to teach the next week, you might now change because you saw

in week one they were struggling with this concept, you need to go deeper into that, or you need to elaborate on something else more. Wow. I really love all of that that you just said. Like, I mean, and a lot of it's similar to podcasting, to be honest with you, like having a name that's clear over clever and just making people understand what they're getting. And then also having, giving yourself kind of the permission to not have everything perfect right away because I know that's what holds everybody up.

They want a sales page. That's got absolutely everything on it. and to have like try to have all the answers like right away. And I like what you said about just like teaching live and then accepting questions and including the students as part of your course creation process. And I can hear people who are listening to this going, oh my God, that scares the big Jesus out of me. I hate interacting with people or I'm no good live.

But honestly, when you're coming at it from a place of I care about these people and I care about their outcome and I just want them to be able to move past or to awards what they need and I've been there and I get it. It's amazing what you will do and step up for these people. And you don't have to be on video for that. You know, there's lots of different ways to do it. You could do it in a QA, Q&A forum. You can just ask them in an email. But if you, I'm just, I'm really tired of people putting out courses that are crap that are fantastically marketed and do not get results for people. And I just want people to be more honest with what they're putting out and include, as I said, the students, you know, no great course came out of me building it

in isolation in my living room or, you know, in a cafe. It's really got to be something that you collaborate with others and you continue to understand what they're going through, what they need from you and how you can help. Yeah, I really like the support idea when you're creating the course. What about after you've like done an iteration or two and you're happy with it? You mentioned Evergreen. So what does that look like? Yeah, so Evergreen, I don't know what it pumps wrong, but I guess it's much like a tree, right? It's consistently got leaves evergreen. It's not deciduous, which I now learn that I have a garden. So evergreen means that once you've created the course, and this is why courses are amazing, it's there forever more. As you just

said, you can continue to improve it, tweak it, add to it, detract from it, whatever it may be. You may re-record some videos as you go because things have updated or technologies changed, etc. But it is essentially now something that is always available, evergreen, for anybody to go through at any time, depending on how you've structured the course. Some people run them live, support and coaching and like I do because I want people to actually be held to account and to finish at the time. But there are some courses that just don't need that, you know, like you don't need to have a time bound to make, you know, vegan chocolate cake. It's not, or learn how to cook vegan. There doesn't even be a time limit on it. So once you've created it, it's there forever

more, just fantastic in that recurring revenue stream for you. But to answer you a question, yeah, once it's done, I do think the only thing that really is ongoing is upgrades, improvements, and you're continuing to market and enroll people in it. And that is the power and beauty of it. So it's often a big upfront effort. And that's like really fun. I love viewing it as a project that you're aiming for and you get done. And then after that, you're like, fantastic. What's the next course or what's something that supports the one that I've built? Or how can I make it better? Or how can I reach more people? Or who could I partner with to get it out there? Yeah, I just think courses are amazing for that. I see a lot of courses that they will put it out a certain time

of year. Even if it's not a live course, they'll have weightless. And that's just for like the whole scarcity aspect to get people to buy within a certain time frame. Do we need to do that? Can we keep the courses open? Yeah, it's a great question. And it's slightly more advanced as well. I think I have seen people do a really good job of having a course always available. But the reason why they launch it three or four times a year is simply the fact that humans are lazy. And if you give them a deadline and you say this is happening on this day and you're going to run through it and maybe we're going to provide a little bit of community, a Facebook group or a mighty network group or something, it just gives people an impetus to start and take action now

versus them maybe coming to your website, maybe seeing it, maybe going, I'll do this later, never getting around to it. So that is part of the reason. So they're not actually physically launching a whole new course, but they're giving you a deadline or a timeline within which to actually take action and do this. And in the same meantime, people can still enroll in it any other time. There's so much psychology around a lot of this, but I, because it can get really tiring, launching all year. And what I've started to see is just, yeah, people being smarter with it, they either do it once a year or twice a year, or

they're really strategic about it. It's three times a year. And any other time you can access it, but you just don't get the community, the accountability, whatever it may be. So it really depends on the business you want. If you want to set it and forget it within reason, or if you love running things live because you love the energy and you love helping people and that is your core business, then that's a great way to do it too. And it really does depend on your personality and your business goals. Well, and I think that you can learn new things when you try it out. I thought I wanted to create a set it and forget it course, but like I'm going through podcast launch academy with students now and I love it. I love the community that we have. It's such

an awesome group of women. And so I definitely want to continue to have that live aspect. a few times a year. Isn't it amazing though? Isn't it? It's just like seeing people learn and get it. It's just one of the best experiences you can give and receive. Yeah. Yeah.

So yeah. It just completely like was a surprise. Like yeah. So you can like start with one thing and then it can transform and turn into something else I've realized. And so you have mentioned that a lot of people start courses. Maybe you didn't. mention this, but I'm going to mention it.

A lot of people start courses and they don't finish them or they buy them and they never do them. And so I love that you're doing your course live to get people motivated to actually like do the damn course. But what other support do we need to have for our course? Do we need to have support? Do we need to have a Facebook group? Can it be time limited?

Like, what do you think? I love the do the damn course, by the way. That's so cool. Yeah. again, it depends on how much you want to interact with and support. But I have found, and this is why this accelerator has been such a revelation to me and such a unique experience, because I call it an experience versus a course, is because there's inbuilt support, accountability, coaching, co-working.

And all of that means that the student can't get out of it, really. Like, I didn't put this accelerator out there for somebody to come along, spend good money, and then not do anything with it. I am not here in this world for people who aren't going to commit to themselves and take action. So I personally love that format because research has proven that, you know, for some areas, as I said, DIY, you know, do it yourself or self-study courses are just fine. And if you look at students in university, right, they have to do it because it's part

of their curriculum. They'll get to it when they do it. But for most humans, as we know, it's really amazing to have a time period in which you know you're doing something that support and motivation to actually get. it done to commit time to block out the calendar, like before people even start, I get them blocking out the calendar for actually making time to do the work, because life will get in the way, all these wonderful things. So I think that in general, students who go through a live course or a course that has some form of deadline accountability support are far more likely to actually

complete it and get a result from it than anybody who's just sort of left to their own devices. And if I look at it, I have bought plenty of courses over the years that I haven't done at that moment, but I bought it because I knew I wanted to do it six months down the track when I was going to be covering X. And I'm really true to that. Like I put all of mine in Asana. I have about five courses right now that I strategically want to do and I'm working my way through them methodically as I go. And that's probably too many courses already. Like even just saying it, I'm like, ah.

But I have literally put aside learning time for this entire year to work through them. And they're all priorities, but some are more important. important than others. But I might be a little bit unique in that and that I've got a really strong work ethic and motivation to learn and I'm strategic about making time for it. So if you are not a person who does that and you know your students aren't going to be that, then building and that support is really important. Yeah. Okay. Now let's say that I am an expert on, I don't know, pizza making and I want to create a course. Like I think a lot of like new teachers, there, desire is to give their students everything they know, like throw in the whole kitchen sink

and make things like really big and complex. So how much information should we be putting into a course? And also, does price have anything to do with this when we're pricing our courses? Because that's the next thing I want to ask you is how should we price our course? Yeah, for sure. It does. So I have a lovely lady in my accelerator who finished it and did really well on it. But when she first was putting a course together, she loved my accelerator so much. she basically emulated it, which is totally fine for her digital nomad ladies and put the entire kitchen sink in, right? Like whiz, bang, all the stuff, because she does that usually with live calls.

So she thought, I'm going to go all in. And then I said, come back to your avatar. Is your avatar really wanting all of that? Because they're traveling the world right now, they're short of, you know, don't always have Wi-Fi, can't always get to live calls. Or do they just want to know the stuff and they want to be able to go through it at their own pace with some support from you? And she was like, oh, yeah, because she launched it.

And there was literally people like, this looks amazing, but I can't even commit to all those live calls and all that stuff. So she's like, hmm, plus she'd thrown the kitchen sink in. And it was overwhelming. And so she took, to her credit, she refrained, and she went, right, yeah, if I was starting out, this was way too much stuff. I just need to know these things for now. So she stripped a lot of stuff out.

She stripped tons of the live stuff out. She just left support in there in a group. She lowered the price because there was less of her in it all the time. And she made all their sales. It was awesome. Like she was really honest with her. she relaunched it. They're like, awesome, this is what we asked for. Right. That was very part of it. They're like, this is what we asked for. She's like, okay, I got it now. But she was

brave enough to like go back to them and say, okay, that didn't work. Here's what I've listened now and here it is. So yeah, I think that was just a really fantastic example of think about the learner always. I have also been guilty in the past of putting too much in. And even in this accelerator, there is so much more that I could be sharing and teaching. But if I did, I just know that nobody would get to the end of it launching a damn course and making money because they would have stalled out before they even began. So that does come through teaching and understanding what makes a great learning design experience. But I often think that less is more because you just want them to get the concept and move

forward and get to the next step and take the next step. And if there are more steps, that's the next course, right? Well, that's the advanced course or that's the bonus module or, you know, that's the next thing you can launch so that they can continue their learning. Because learning is a process and a journey. Yeah, yeah. And it all goes back to what you said at the very beginning about really knowing who your ideal customer is from the very start and what they actually want.

Because, yeah, we want to do everything for them, but that doesn't mean giving them years worth of content. It means helping them achieve what you said your course was going to help them achieve. Yeah, exactly. So, and you also mentioned that she, your student, took. herself out of the course more. And so that lowered the price. So it sounds like how involved you are can determine the price, but then also look at who your competitors are and what they're charging and like what what's going on in the market, right? Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of factors and

I think, again, people overcomplicate this. I love to just take it back to the simple thing. What is the value, the perceived value that somebody is going to get out of this course is what they're willing to pay for it. If you could say to me, Natalie, I'm going to to change your life, you're going to, you know, for example, wake up with more energy in the morning than you ever have at the end of our 30 days together. How much am I willing to pay for that? Probably a lot, you know, because it's my energy, it's my life. Imagine how much all this extra energy is going to give me. And I'm not saying this to be evasive, because people are like, just tell me what I should charge. But the point is, it's the value that you're going to give to

that person is kind of the value that they're going to be able to invest. So to put it into some sort of structure for people, the minute you start going over $100, there is a bit of a psychological barrier that people are less likely to just open their wallet and go for it. So most courses that are lighter in weight that are smaller or shorter or succinct or teaching one specific thing can still have a lot of value in them. But if it's under that $100 mark, so it's a $99 or $97, and for those people listening, the seven and nine is just, again, a psychological thing that, and you can have five, but seven and nine are two numbers that just seem to work really well for people to go, okay, it's less than the full amount. Like it's less than $100, it's $99.

Even though we know it's $1 off $100, it makes it seem more affordable. So the minute you go over $100, you do generally have to put more in or more effort or add more value or more of an outcome or more of a transformation that people are prepared to pay for it. And then it's really the sky's the limit. You know, I've seen courses that go from $2,000, $3,000,000, up and the more that you add in terms of value, again, the more you can charge. But also then, yes, you definitely see people are adding things like resources and templates, maybe sometimes some live coaching, some one-on-one coaching or some expert interviews or extras and things that are going to help their learning, not overload the learning, but help them get to that result

faster. But I also see that a lot of people underpriced what they do and that sometimes just getting that person from A to B is worth the world to them. So, So pricing is an interesting thing, and I do cover it in the accelerator. I do like give guides on what it can be. But it's also really dependent on who you're serving and what the result or the transformation is that you're going to get them and how much that's actually worth to them. Right.

And like you said, if you have a course on how to build a course, then you've got like, you know, hopefully your students would be earning money because of what you taught. And so, I mean, that's an incredible value. Yeah. And this has been such an exciting one to run because in the past I've run like, and you probably remember, the freedom plan. And it was more of a mindset-based, lifestyle-based, business-based thing. And so people got all sorts of results.

Sometimes they just freed their mind from, oh, I can actually do this. I can build a business and I can travel the world. And some of them, you know, hired a team. And some of them maybe did actually launch a product or a service or an offering. But I could never tangibly see because sometimes it was very intangible. It was like they got more confidence. They got more success. They got more happiness, whatever it may be.

there's not really a value you can put on that. But with this, what I really love is, I can definitively say, if you do what I say at the end of the 60 days and we work through it together and you put your all in and you do the work, you're going to come out with course sales and then you can sky's the limit, right? And it's really exciting to be able to start tracking what people have done in terms of how many people they added to the email list, how many, obviously, course sales they made,

but just all the other things that come with it. So yeah, it's pretty exciting in this one to be able to actually tangibly turn around and say you'll probably make your money back for this accelerator and more. I'm sure. So the student that you mentioned before, you said she started out with too much information and she wasn't really seeing any sales.

What are some other reasons that a launch would fail? Typically, from my experience and from seeing many others and from doing many, it's that you really haven't got, well, there's actually several factors. And it's a great question. You haven't got the messaging right. You haven't really understood the problem that they have.

And then you haven't, I guess, related to them in a way that resonates and gets them to take massive action and say, yes, I'm in. So often it's that your messaging is a little bit too wishy-washy. It's not actually targeted to the exact person. And I've for sure done this in the past. Everybody can do this. No. Who is the one person that you really want this to be for?

Because the more you can speak to one person, more of that one person is going to show up to it, right, versus going super broad. And sometimes, of course, can be more broad, but I think the ones that make the most impact and the most powerful are for a specific person wanting a specific result. The other reason why it fails is people simply underestimate what it takes to launch.

And the first launch is always the scariest and I'm not going to lie, or sugarcoat it, the hardest, the most involved. But the more work you do in understanding who it's for, and the more you put your heart and soul into it and explaining that and creating a great, you know, curriculum experience for people, the more likely it is that those people are going to appreciate that and go,

I'm all in too. I think one of the biggest reasons for failures of a launch is not preparing and planning enough in advance. So a lot of the people who started on the accelerator had to pretty quickly get up to speed with warming up their email list. They hadn't emailed them in months or they didn't really have a list. And so, you know, there's only so much you can do in 60 days and we do achieve a lot. But one of my biggest request of them was please start communicating with your audience and community now because in 60 days' time when you're sharing and promoting your course,

they don't want you just coming out of nowhere. And like, hey, here it is. Boom, boom, boom. They'll be like, ah. So that was a big mistake. It's actually all the stuff you do outside of the launch consistently like you're doing with podcasts and content. And that is actually what is going to build up a more successful launch and course.

And I'd say the fourth one that is every single person struggles with this, I still do. It's always going to be there is mindset. I think for people who definitively did not believe that they could do, or that their course wasn't good enough or that they, you know, all these excuses, that's pretty much the result they got. For the people who were just really open-minded and like, I'm going to do this. Oh, my God, I so believe in this. I can't wait to teach this.

I'm so excited for people to learn this. Oh, I'm so excited to help these people. They've got amazing results, right, because they were coming at it from a place of real intention and authenticity. And I know this sounds a bit woo, but I have in the past, when I have not fully backed or believed in something I'm doing, maybe the timing's not right for me. I'm not fully there. It's always been a mediocre result.

And other times, and I'm just like, I am so excited about this and I am so thrilled and I'm so proud of this thing. You put it out there. Honestly, people can read energy. I'm not kidding. It's like, you can tell. You can tell when you've read other people's emails, right?

Like they are all in. They have put their heart and soul into it. They believe in it. No matter how small or big it is. And that gets people excited because they can see and they can believe. And that breeds more excitement. and then they tell more people.

It's just a, it is a really fascinating thing. And I think that applies in business as well when I've put something half-hearted in, yet something half-hearted back. Yeah, yeah. I love that. I love all of that. And it's the same with podcasting as well. Like a lot of people start out thinking maybe the technology,

confusion is what's going to hold them back. But I think way more than that, it's the mindset and people just panicking that maybe they're not good enough or they can't, you know, they're just afraid to put themselves out there. So I think it's, you know, the same thing as courses. But do we need to launch with the webinar? That is actually something that I don't specifically teach in the accelerator, but I put it there as one of the options.

And if I'm being really honest about it, there's lots of different ways to launch. But I do think webinars are a pretty freaking awesome way to get your thoughts together about the stories that people are telling themselves as to why they're not going to take your course. So a webinar actually isn't necessarily teaching everybody what you're going to learn in the course. It'll definitely touch on some of that.

But it's more talking about the why, the why and the what. And the course is usually teaching them the how, right? Because most of the time people need to get out of their own way. And that's actually what you'd be talking about in the webinar. So to answer your question, I think webinars are a fantastic way of enrolling people and getting to the heart of what's stopping them from enrolling into your course. But no, you absolutely don't need to launch with a webinar. And I think only one person in my accelerator did.

There were lots of people who just did it through content. They did it maybe through Facebook Lives. They did it through an email series, which is, you know, one of the easiest and most effective ways to do it. Yeah. Well, I just know that webinars freak a lot of people out who they do not want to talk about sales. Like they are so excited about teaching people and like love their subject and just want to

like share and share and share. But when it comes time to you have to ask people live to buy, they're, how to, have a block. Yeah. Yeah. And that's perfect. I'm so glad you brought that up. It's not the elephant room. That is often, uh, comes back to a mindset and belief factor because if you know that this course is going to benefit those people, there is nobody stopping you from preaching that to the world. And I didn't say selling by the way. I said like preaching all the benefits and the results and the transformations they're going to get out of that course, it's selling itself. So you don't have to go, and it's just nine 97 or, you know, it's, I know that feels ekey to people. But,

But when you're coming from a place of true caring, and this is genuinely going to help you, I think a lot of people get surprised at how easy it is to enroll others because you're not selling them the price of the investment. You're selling them the result or the transformation. And people will self-select at that point. I do hear what you're saying for sure, and that's where I think just over the time,

understanding what selling is, what ethical selling is, what makes you feel good. But I just love sharing stories, stories of what other people did, because through that, it's selling without the icky selling because you're actually telling the truth and sharing. And people can really relate to that. Yeah, and that's great. You could share stories of people who have had success and maybe you're just starting out and you don't have success yet.

But there are examples of human beings out there who have had success, like doing a certain thing. And so like you said, it's the why and like the what and then your course can be how. Yeah. Well, Natalie, this has been awesome. you for taking the time to talk to me about how to create an online course. Tell us some more about launch the damn course and what else you're up to right now and how we can get in touch with you. Oh, thank you. Well, hopefully I've kind of talked about it. I mean, essentially, I'm here to help people launch the damn course. I've been doing it since 2010 myself. I've made all the awesome

mistakes. I've made all the screw-ups. I've done all the things you should and shouldn't do. and I just feel like I'm also really focused on the future of work right and the fact that more and more jobs are disappearing before our very eyes but there's all these new opportunities and possibilities and the areas that are going to always be around are teaching and learning and so the more you can develop that muscle and you can develop that skill and you can understand that what the experience that you have and the skills that you have and the knowledge that you have is valuable the more people we can have out there creating awesome online courses and experience. that people can actually get results from. So I'm a huge advocate of it, and I do believe that almost anybody can walk to course. And the accelerator just shows people exactly how to do that. And it's like 60 days, really clear. I don't let people jump ahead until they've gotten that bit,

and we all move through it together. It's super supportive, awesome environment. I just love the random collection of human beings that I've had in it so far with courses of all sorts of bizarre and wonderful things. And that's what makes me so excited, because I'm like, yeah, you truly can launch a course about anything, anything. So if people feel drawn to it, we're doing it on the end of January. It's another 60 days.

It's live. You get me, me, me and me. And there's awesome community. I think the results are starting to speak for themselves. So I'm super excited to help people get more time, money and freedom. Thank you again, Natalie. It's been so great having you on. It's been amazing.

Thank you so much for having me. I love what Natalie said about making a list of the courses you want to take this year and then blocking off time on the calendar to actually do the work. So what do you think? Are you interested in creating your own online course? Natalie's next session of the Launch Your Damn course accelerator starts on January 27th, 2020. And she really knows her stuff and makes things happen for you. So if you want to catch this next round of live coaching and accountability, then head over to

sarah megatel.com slash Natalie, where I will share all of the details with you. And if it's a podcasting course you're after, well, then you can find out more about podcast launch academy my course by visiting sarah micotel.com slash pLA. And podcast launch academy is available now as a go-at-your-own-paste course and the next round of the podcast launch academy experience, which includes group mentoring and some other great bonuses. That is going to begin on March 11th, 2020. And I will share more details about that as we get closer to the time. But if you want to do an online course first, then head on hover to sarahmicatel.com slash Natalie, where you can learn all about the Launch Your Damn course accelerator. That's all for now. Thanks for listening and have a

beautiful week wherever you are. Thank you for listening to podcasting step by step. You are now one step closer to launching that podcast you've been dreaming about. But I want to get you even closer. I created a free guidebook for you with actionable worksheets called Eight Mistakes New Podcasters Make and How to Fix Them. To find that, head on over to sarah micotel.com slash fix. Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free conversation cheat sheet with simple formulas that you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you're in a meeting or just talking with friends.

Download it at sarahmicatel.com slash blank no more. SOTOMAYOR.