Inside Conan: An Important Hollywood Podcast - Ashley Nicole Black

Episode Date: September 4, 2020

Emmy award winning writer and comedian Ashley Nicole Black (A Black Lady Sketch Show, Full Frontal with Samantha Bee) stops by to talk with writers Mike Sweeney and Jessie Gaskell about leaving her PhD to pursue comedy, performing sketch comedy with Second City on a cruise ship, becoming a writer and then correspondent on Full Frontal with Samantha Bee, how getting used to hearing no is important as a writer, and finding out that her comedy niche is rom-coms while working on A Black Lady Sketch Show. Got a question for Inside Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone] and e-mail us at [e-mail] For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com

And now it's time for Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. Hey, everybody, welcome back to Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Jesse Gaskell. This is Mike Sweeney. Hi, I'm Mike Sweeney. We're your hosts. I'm Jessi Gaskell. This is Mike Sweeney. Hi, I'm Mike Sweeney. We're writers on The Conan Show. And we talk about it.

Ad nauseum. No, we talk about the inner workings, the dramas, the office romances. No, we haven't really talked about that, but I would like to someday. I would love more office romances. Yeah, there's a few. I mean, there have been some marriages. Oh, we haven't really talked about that, but I would like to someday. I would love more office romances. Yeah, there's a few. I mean, there have been some marriages. Oh, that's true. Oh my goodness gracious. Yes, there have. And probably a few things we maybe haven't heard about. Yeah.

Because we'd go to HR. First, we'd have to get an HR. That's right. And then report. How have you been? I've been okay. We started working on the DIY Conan. Oh, right. That's where we put together an episode of Conan and put it online and asked fans to recreate the entire show. That's so cool. How do they do it? Well, they divvied the show up into like 30 second chunks and you can pick one that

strikes your fancy and recreate it any way you want. Sort of like adopting a highway. Exactly. You just get your little mile of highway and get to beautify it. You get to clean up the Conan. Some people just, you know, reenact it or they use puppets or they do some amazing animation. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, I'm worried it's going to look better than what we do.

Well, when do we get to see this? I believe it's airing September. I've got to double check the date. Shoot. Should I call Beth right now and find out the date? Sure. Yeah, get Beth on the horn. Hi, Beth.

It's Mike Sweeney. You're on speakerphone. Are you cool with that? Yeah, that's fine. Okay, we're taping an episode of Inside Conan. Ask if she's heard of it. Jesse wants to know if you've heard of heard of this podcast i'm a big fan yeah yeah she's a big fan well we had a question we're just talking about diy conan what's the air date for that show i think it's the week of september 21st is like what we have right now but there's no like um

i think like end of september i think it's good to keep people on their toes. I mean, it's not like anyone's using dates anymore anyway. Sometime in September, the DIY show will be on TV. That's right. No, the last week of September. Yeah. I can't wait to see it. And we have a great show today.

We do. I was very excited to meet this writer and performer, Ashley Nicole Black. Yes. She was a pleasure to talk to. And if any listeners out there interested in how people come to writing for television or writing in general, she has a great backstory. The transition she made, which she talks about. It's one of the most interesting I've ever heard. It's a good one. And she's written for Full Frontal with Samantha Bee. So

she's also had experience writing for Late Night. Right. But right now she's on a black lady sketch show, which is, wow, I think it's a great show. It's really funny. It's so funny. And it's so dense with jokes. Really funny. And great endings to the sketches, which is, I think, the hardest thing to do is stick a good landing on a sketch. But a lot of sketches go off in a different direction towards the end that I never see coming. Yeah. They don't just end with someone pulling out a gun and shooting everybody.

So yeah, we had a great time talking to Ashley. And here she is, Ashley Nicole Black. Ashley Nicole Black, thanks so much for being here. Real quick, have you always been a three-namer? Yeah. Ashley Nicole, yeah. Yeah, Black people, we want, have you always been a three-namer? Yeah. Ashley, Nicole, yeah. Yeah, black people, we want to have as many names as we can. Why stop at three? Certainly you have more up your sleeve. My parents actually couldn't agree on my name. One wanted Ashley and one wanted

Nicole. And so here we are. That's a good compromise. So does one parent call you Ashley and the other calls you Nicole? They both call me Ashley. But what's really funny is like they really fought over it and really thought they picked something super original. But every Ashley is named Ashley Nicole. That's great. There was like years ago, a Facebook group of Ashley Nicole Blacks, and there were hundreds. But you're their leader now.

You're the most famous Ashley Nicole Blacks, and there were hundreds. But you're their leader now. You're the most famous Ashley Nicole Black. There's a weight loss lady named Ashley Nicole Black. She was number one on Google for a while, and it took me a couple of years to beat her. What a great motivator to have someone else. Well, Ashley, I mean, we're both fans of yours. You've had a wonderful writing career and performing career on amazing shows. And I love you're on Twitter. But we have talked so much about the writing process on Conan on this podcast. And we thought it'd be interesting to hear about what it's like on other late night shows and other sketch shows. So we do want to get to that.

But maybe we can start further back than that and hear kind of your comedy story and how you got into writing comedy. I mean, I think the same way everybody else did. I dropped out of a PhD at Northwestern. They're all writers now. Yeah. Wait, how far along were you in the program? Very far. I'm ABD, which is all but dissertation.

So at the end. Do you have relatives? This happens a lot with people going to comedy. Is there a relative or relatives who are like, what are you doing this? Just go back and finish. Get that degree. You could be a doctor. I think I won over the last one like this year. I finally got there. Oh, good. Well, that's your other motivation. I mean, that was a motivation for me to be successful because my parents wanted me to go to grad school and they just kept sending me grad school programs. Brochures. Yeah. No, really. I feel like your family accepts comedy once you're at the point where you don't need to borrow money anymore. Right. all of a sudden yeah and even

then they're probably like are you are you borrowing money from someone else and you're just no I'm making a living it sounds like it really was a genuine just you were obviously passionate about comedy but was there also an element of like you started looking around and seeing that it was really hard to get hired as a professor places. I mean, it used to be like a PhD just opened so many doors. And now I don't know if that's true. Yeah, I part of I went to grad school because I didn't know what I wanted to do like a lot of people. And yeah, the life of a professor seems like very stable. Like, oh, once you get that PhD, you get tenure, you're set for life. And that's no longer the case. So I was doing Second City while I was doing the PhD program

and kind of like doing shows at night, getting up and teaching in the morning and kind of having this weird back and forth. And then it was like, well, comedy is so unstable and I'm probably not going to like get famous because that's our weird barometer for success. There's no other job where you're like, I should be an accountant unless I can be a famous accountant. Yeah. Right. I need to be recognized on the street. Yeah. But then once I looked at it, it was like, okay, so as a professor, you can be an adjunct and making very little money and having to move to a different university every year and have a super unstable life. Yeah. The same is true for comedy, but I enjoy comedy.

So I might as well enjoy being broke. And that was kind of when I finally made that push. Yeah. What's the latest night you're out at like Second City? And then how early did you have to be in that classroom the next day? I taught a 9 a.m. class. And I was also, I started grad school. I went straight out of college.

So I was, you know, a year or a couple of years older than my students. And I was just like rolling into class, hungover. People would be like, who's the professor? And I'd be like, me guys, what's up? But I was drinking with you last night. And were you like, we're going to do zip, zap, zap. No way. I'm sorry. I actually did a lot of improv because what ended up happening was like, I had a couple athletes in my first class that I taught.

And then coaches started specifically sending their athletes to me. To the hungover professor. Yeah. So I did do improv games with them, just trying to help them get comfortable in their bodies. Did you, when you were at Second City, did you keep under wraps what your day gig was? Or did you talk about that with the friends or the people you met at Second City? Yeah, I talked about it. It was really weird because like everybody's waiting tables and my version of waiting tables

was like teaching at a university. You're like, oh, my day gig. And they were like, oh, well, okay. Who let you into the club? Although with tips, they might have made more money. Oh, almost certainly. Yeah. And even probably scarier did you

keep doing improv to yourself with people you worked with at the college somewhat yeah yeah they were not into it at all like and i was a i did performance studies but there are types of performance that are worth studying and types that are not, you know? And improv is not. Yeah, improv was solidly on the not side. Oh, wow. That's wild. It must have been great. When you left that program, did you feel, when you left the PhD program,

did you feel like you were at a point where you could let them know what you were going to do? Or did you still feel like you were finding your way in the comedy world at that time? I was definitely still finding my way. And I definitely took a sabbatical and then took a longer sabbatical. So it was like a slow... Slow breakup.

Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. So from that point, you were doing improv. I read somewhere that you did Second City on a cruise ship yeah oh wow oh how long were you out to sea i was only out for um two and a half months that's a long time on a ship that's a long time only the contracts are four months is it like c org in scientology i mean yes in the sense that they're like these guards are in charge and whatever they tell you to do, you have to do.

And like as a comedian, you're like, I'm not used to this. The sea has laws. But yeah, like the performer contracts were four months. Other people who work on the ship have like nine month or two year long contracts. Like you really live there in my head if i had one bad show i would jump overboard rather than have to see those same people for another 10 days or you know you know i will say it's very hard to have a bad show right because it's sketch so there's sketches that they've been doing for years that they know work

and then short form improv which sort of like always works oh right okay yeah and also there's sketches that they've been doing for years that they know work. And then short form improv, which sort of like always works. Oh, right. Okay. Yeah. And also there's strength in numbers. It's not like I was in the standup pad thinking of like, it's just you. So everyone, when they see you in the hallway after you bomb, there he is. I'm just imagining.

Never again. We're picking the magician. Right. Exactly. And were you also writing sketches at that point or did the troops sort of already had their set of sketches um on the ship oh no they're it's very controlled like these are the sketches that can go on a ship they've been focused tested and worked out long before you get there which is why i say it's hard to have a bad

show they're not gonna offend anybody okay yeah and it's hard to have a bad show. They're not going to offend anybody. Okay. Yeah. And it's like, they're actually really good at like just skirting that line where it feels fun and dangerous for the audience, but you couldn't possibly offend anyone. But it doesn't feel like milquetoast. And we would do like an adults only show, which like you can't talk about politics, but every sex joke you can work in there, go for it. Right. talk about politics, but every sex joke you can work in there, go for it. So after that, you were back in Chicago again. And at what point did you realize that you wanted to write for like a variety show? Pretty much after that, I actually came out to LA after that. And I knew that a lot of people out of Second City got late night gigs.

So I was writing pilots, but also like trying to do those packets just because I knew that a lot of people out of Second City got late night gigs. So I was writing pilots, but also like trying to do those packets just because I knew that like late night might be my way in and it ended up being so. Yeah. And then it was your first gig on Samantha Bee. Yeah. Wow. So did you move to New York? Yes. So I had just moved to LA and then I moved to New York. That's always how you get a job is if you either have a giant non-refundable trip planned. Yes. Or you've just spent a lot of money moving somewhere.

Always. Yes. Wow, cool. So that's a pretty good first gig. You won an Emmy there, I should say. Yes, congratulations. That's exciting. For writing, which is terrific. I don't know if people know, especially with the comedy variety shows or the late night shows, you can get nominated for best show. But then also the writing staff can get their own Emmy nomination for the writing.

So, yeah. And among writers, that's the real award. Yeah. That's the one you want. And when you started at Samantha Bee, did you, was there an inkling for you that you wanted to also perform on the show? Because you did end up doing, you were sort of a correspondent on the show. everybody's a writer performer. That was how I learned to do it. It was the only thing I knew. And when I started applying for writing jobs, I like literally sat myself down in a quiet room and was like, do you have it in you to just write jokes for someone else? And they're going to get all the laughs and they're going to get famous. And they're going to be the one who the newspaper says they said something funny the next day when it was your thing that you wrote can you handle that and if not then don't go get one of these jobs and i really decided to myself

that i could do it especially because it was sam and i was such a big fan of hers and i was so invested in a woman being in that space and sam particularly that i decided like i can do this i can just write and be in the background and not perform at all. And then a couple of months into it, she asked me to perform. But I think- But only because you weren't asking for it. Exactly.

I don't think that would have happened because you can feel that energy when someone's like, I wish it was me. And it's a hard energy to be around sometimes. It's kind of like, yeah, it can be, then you start avoiding people like that, you know? Yeah. Whereas I went into it with like, I am 100% only here to realize this woman's vision and, you know, do that up until you don't want to do it anymore and then leave. You can't be trying to get anything else done on a late night show than that. So in that short window,

when you were just writing for her, did you enjoy having someone else get the laughs? Yes. Yeah. You still get the credit. It's fun, I think. Yeah. I love standing in the audience on tape day and hearing people laugh at stuff. Sam's also, I think this is true of Conan as well. They're so good at delivering a line that even something that you knew was going to kill, the way it comes out of her mouth is even better than you could imagine. And it's just like seeing your work elevated by an amazing performer is the best feeling in the world. That's great. And also as a woman of color, sometimes there's things you wish white ladies would say and you can write them down. Yeah, no. And that's true. I mean, Samantha's always been, you know, she's an edgy comic.

But how did you feel about having like pushing her into covering more racial topics? And I mean, was that something that you set out to do or did it just sort of happen naturally? The show was always going to be that. And that was part of what attracted me to it. Like when I read the packet and the way they described what they wanted the show to be, I knew that I would have a place in it. So it wasn't much of a push. I don't feel like I ever had to push her on a story.

But there would be things that maybe I'm more aware of than she is. And it's like explaining to her this is what it is. One of the funniest things that ever I'm more aware of than she is. And it's like explaining to her, this is what it is. One of the funniest things that ever happened on that show was there was something that Paul Ryan was doing. And I had written the punchline that Paul Ryan says, fuck bitches get money. And Sam read it in rehearsal and it killed.

And then we go to rewrite and she's like, I just don't know if we should call Paul Ryan a fuck bitch. And I was like, what? Because we're saying he's a fuck bitch and he's getting money. And I was like, oh, no, no, no. The whole thing is the quote. Fuck bitches, comma, get money. So there's like. It depends where the comma is. Yeah. Yeah. The comma is critical. There's like funny moments like that where it's like, oh, let me explain to you what this joke is. But I don't feel like I ever had to push her on anything. There's a really funny sketch I saw that you were in, which is it was a parody of Antique Roadshow, but instead it was white people

coming through and with heirlooms or things from their their family that they were like, is this racist that I have this? Yes. Yes. Let me explain how it is very funny. Yeah, that actually started as a bit way before we did it on TV that we would do in the room where it's just like, how many steps does it take you to get from a normal everyday thing to that thing is racist? Almost everything is racist if you go back harder. Yeah. Were you glad to have an improv background, even for pitching stuff in the room at Samantha Bee? Yeah, both the improv background and at Second City. I'm trying to think of how to phrase this.

Getting used to hearing no, I think, is really important for a writer. And so you would pitch and you would just have to keep pitching until you got something in the show. And then sometimes you'd get something in the show and it would play in front of an audience and maybe play medium to bad. And then it would be out and you'd have to come up with something else. So having that be the environment that I came up in, I think when I got to Sam Bee, I wasn't precious about pitches and I would come in with a lot of pitches with the expectation that I'm going to hear no a couple times. So let me come in, you know, with like a lot of ammunition. Yeah. So that was great

preparation for that job, that improv background. I mean, you're bringing up a really good point, I think, which is I don't think a lot of people when they watch a show realize the low percentage rate of pitching ideas versus how many get on, what percentage actually make it on the show. Yeah, I always say it's like at least 90-10 of things that I pitch that don't make the show. Yeah. And then I wonder how it is for you guys. But on that show, because it's so news based, you could also write whole pieces like you could write a seven minute piece that then got trashed because the news changed. So really, there's a big percentage of pitches that don't make it and then like a smaller but still pretty hefty percentage of whole written pieces that don't make it. Oh, wow.

Yeah, we do have that as well. But it's usually not like a seven minute produced bit would hopefully at some point have gotten cut before you actually finish. Someone would mercifully step in. Did you ever have those things where you're like, somebody please cut this? Yes. Oh my God. Hey, somebody please. Oh my God. You're sending articles to the head writer like, I think maybe this is too close to something another show did.

Oh, yeah. That was my favorite thing is getting something greenlit and going in and going, I don't, you know, and start giving all these reasons it wasn't going to work. And they're like, well, okay. And I'd be like, oh, thank God. Time for lunch. This is very nuts and bolts, but can I ask, do you pitch your own pitches? Or do you send them all in?

Because on our show, the head writer reads a stack of pitches kind of in his same monotone. Yes. So I have friends on shows who have said that. And that's so strange to me. On both the variety shows I worked on, you pitch your own pitch. And me being a writer performer, I want to pitch my own pitch. I'm going to give you a whole razzle dazzle. Like, let's get this pitch made. That's great. Well, and sometimes I think that sells the pitch when it might not get in just on the page. It needs to come alive.

Yeah. Or sometimes there's like a little question that like you would say no to the pitch or you would ask that question. It would totally open up to you and you would understand it. You know what I mean? Whereas like sometimes when things are in writing or someone else is saying them and you don't have the opportunity to ask that question, then it's an,

you just say no. Right. Whereas here they, they know exactly who to address the question to because you just pitched it. So why are we calling Paul Ryan a fuck bitch? Well, Jesse, how do you feel about that system

when the head writer reads all the ideas out? Plus, they're all anonymous. He doesn't say whose ideas they are. So that's an interesting wrinkle to this as well. It's the opposite. Although you know certain people's voices, so you can... Oh, yeah. I love guessing whose is whose.

Everyone's guessing whose bit it is anyway, but... So did you email them to him? Yeah, we emailed them and then the writer's assistant compiles them all. And then we get to hear him do like a cold read, which is always hilarious. And then we find out the words he doesn't know how to pronounce. Oh my God. That used to happen to me. Funny ones.

Awful. Very embarrassing. Yeah, where he'll be like melancholy you're like i've really never said melancholy before um but also when would you have think about it i know there's plenty of words that i've never said out loud but i've read them right yeah no i think i was relieved because i was also coming on to a staff of writers who had been there for 10 to 20 years already before I got there. And so it was very intimidating to be in that room. There are some people who come into the room their first day and are incredibly confident. And I'm like, wow. I mean, I started on the same day

as someone else who I knew. And I feel like this great writer jonathan groff i felt like if he wasn't there i would have just folded up at my tent because he was kind of like someone i could talk to at the end of the day because i was so intimidated by everyone else you could be like is it just me or right yeah right right right yeah i took a class um with mcnapier and one of his pieces of advice was like, this is at the Second City. He was like, nobody retires from the Second City, which is true. It's kind of like a young man's game. And so he's like, you're going to get fired at some point. So you might as well make it happen as soon as possible and get fired for being yourself. So like, instead of hanging back and being shy and trying to figure

out what they want and doing that, just be a hundred percent yourself. And if yourself is not what's needed here, leave as quickly as possible. And I kind of took that on. I think, yeah, it works in shows. It works in dating. Like be yourself. It might make it end quicker, but it was going to end either way. No, that's true. Yeah. You're not just prolonging something that's like limping along. Yeah. When you started at Sam Bee, had that show already been going or were you all starting

out together, which would make it more like all getting to know each other at the same time? Or were you renting an established show already? We were all starting starting together but half of that staff had come from the daily show so they did have kind of an established thing going yeah so they were like well on the daily show we did it like right and i'd be like well on nothing we did it like this well in my phd program we would have approached you yeah yeah probably none of them had phds or almost phd um how was it writing for the uh correspondence dinner so much fun and so the the day that we did it is probably like the most fun i've ever had as a performer but i also have like few memories because i don't think we slept for a week. Like, oh, wow. We just like all move into a hotel together and kind of like write all night.

Right. And then I have to get up at 5 a.m. for hair and makeup. You know what I mean? So it just feels like a week long blur of working, but culminating in one of the coolest things I've ever been a part of. Yeah. And I mean, it absolutely killed. So you really kind of, it sounds like it was a very compressed period of time over which you wrote and shot it and edited it. Or was there a big ramp up in terms of writing? There was, but we were writing the show at the same time. So I don't think we stopped down at all. So we were writing long term for the special for months, but also we were writing the show. So then when we got there, we had a lot of like the rewriting and stuff like that to do. And then you just get stuff on its feet and find out stuff

doesn't work and you have to rewrite it and that aspect of it. That's like very heavy political writing. Was that has politics ever been kind of a passion of yours or an interest at least? Or did you have to like do a lot of research as well? I was, I always aware of politics. Like my parents are, you know, always very interested in politics and we would watch the news and talk about it, you know, around the dinner table or whatever. So I was always aware of it. And then also coming out of an academic background, I already had the ability to sort of reason and argument out of facts, which is what that is. I don't see how that relates to politics.

It does for exactly half of us. But I did have to get more like 24-7 immersed in it than I ever wanted to be. Yeah, I know. Because that's kind of a double-edged sword. Do you still follow politics that much? Or have you gotten to? I mean, I follow it the amount of a normal person. I don't follow it like I did at that time. Like I literally would be, the news would be on from 6am till midnight every day while I had that job. And I don't do that anymore, obviously. Wow. That was kind of tough though, because that show is only one night a

week. So I bet things you'd see on a Thursday or Friday, you'd be like, oh, this is a great topic, especially nowadays. By Monday, it might seem like old news you know yeah especially friday because the trump administration tends to go nuts every friday right yeah and you're like well we it'll be gone every other show we'll get a bite at it before we get to it but i always really liked writing the longer term pieces about like more ongoing issues so that's the stuff that i would like volunteer for more so than the day-to-day things that were more evergreen yeah reproductive health stuff like that that you can like write on for a couple weeks that's very evergreen yeah so to bring us

up to date you're writing for a black lady sketch show which is on hbo also nominated for an emmy congratulations again three you have a pretty good streak. Yeah, you can't miss Angela Bassett, okay? Angela Bassett is nominated for an Emmy. Of course. For the bitch sketch. Yeah. Which is a hilarious sketch. And then your director was not... Yeah.

I mean, there's so much about your show. And one of the great things about it is the directing. I mean, it's really well done. It's so good. And I'm so excited that she got nominated. Her name's Dime Davis. Great first name. Dime Davis. So much of the discussion is like,

she's the first black woman nominated in this category. But also like if you watch the show, she is directing on a level I've never seen in sketch before. Like it's not amazing because she's black. It's amazing because no one's done this with sketch. And I mean, the show is gorgeous. It is. There's so many genres.

I mean, and everything is so specific. Like the look of it is all so specific to the genre. And you traverse so many different areas in one episode. Yeah. And we shot the season so fast. There were days where we shot two or three sketches in a day. Wow. Even just the hair and makeup changes, like going from a completely different set, location, genre, way of shooting everything in one day is insane. Wow. Yeah. Well, no, we've talked a lot about how it's, especially when you're

starting out, it's so nice to have kind of a, like a, just a group of people that you're, that you're coming up with, that you're all, uh, helping each other out because when somebody gets a break, they're going to help everybody else, you know? So you're, you're kind of, it's like the rising tide lifts all boats. You're waiting for someone to get the break. And people that you can just ask, like, is this normal? Like, my boss did this thing. Is this supposed to happen? Yeah. Like, how much money are you making? Yes. I love talking. I mean, me and my girlfriends all, it's a complete open door policy. Oh, you just sold a script. How much did you sell it for? Like you have to tell each other. Yeah, that's really smart because there's not a lot of,

I mean, that's just not an open book in Hollywood, especially. No, I don't tell my wife how much I make. I feel like you should. Yeah, she knows. I saw you and the other writers for a Black Lady Sketch Show doing, you did a panel for the WGA. And one thing you talked about was that everyone sort of brought different, like a different genre. Like you were all kind of masters of different areas of comedy. What was the genre that you kind of wanted to focus on there that you brought? I wouldn't say that I had this thought going into it, but it was reflected back to me that a lot of my stuff is like rom-com.

Oh. Like the viral proposal and the Patti LaBelle sketch and stuff like that. And that wasn't something that I thought about going into it. But what was so cool about that staff is like, because everyone was so different and so good at something, you could look around and go, okay, what's missing? As opposed to being like, okay, I have to make sure that I'm doing this. You're like, oh, this is covered, this is covered, this is covered. What's left that I want to see? And then also knowing that I was also going to perform on the show, I want to see plus-size black women in rom-coms,

so let's write some and make them. So it was really like what are all the things that I have wanted to see Black women doing in comedy and trying to touch each of those genres, which I feel like we did a pretty good job of. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And you also wrote another one of my favorite sketches, the Invisible Spy sketch, which is not a rom-com genre. But well, can I ask? So, OK, one thing that we've talked about before is that at the Conan show, the writers also produce all of our own sketches. So was that an element at Black Lady Sketch Show or was it like, you know, finish your script, like print it and hand it off kind of to the production team? Yeah, on Full Frontal, I did. We did produce a lot of our own stuff on Black Lady Sketch Show.

Not at all, because also we're completely done writing before production starts so by the time we're shooting the show people are like on another job oh wow unless you're in the sketches unless you're in the show so it is weird uh because occasionally and i've had this happen on a lot of shows we'll be like well i think the writer meant this and be like um it's me yeah. The four of you are really amazing. Like Robin's great. And I'm going to screw up her name. Is it Quinta or Quinta?

Quinta, yeah. She's great. And Gabrielle and you, you're great together. And everyone has, it's amazing. It's like, I feel like you're doing the work. It feels like more people. It does seem like more people. I had the same reaction. Gabrielle seems like

15 people because she disappears so much into the world. I'll be like, where's Gabrielle? I'm like, she's right there. You're looking at her. Right. And Robin can play the guys too. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And she loves to. Oh my God. Her male characters are

hilarious. Was there ever a question about, cause it's very, I mean like the production level is so high and it's so ambitious in terms of like the scale of all the sets and stuff. Was there talk of, okay, that's out of the budget or like, Oh yeah,

definitely. Oh, okay. It's actually not a huge budget. I think they just did a really good job of making it look like a lot of money. Yeah, it looks expensive. Yeah, it looks more expensive than it is. But yeah, there were definitely, I think the biggest thing,

I think this is true on a lot of shows, though, is music. It's very hard to pay for music. Oh, yeah. Pre-existing music, third-party music. Yeah, so a lot of times you have an idea in your head as a writer, especially this show, because it is so much commenting on culture but there was a very limited number of songs we could have across so it's truly like if you get this song in this sketch it's going to come out of another sketch yeah well

and it's so hard sometimes i mean we've run into this a lot where you're like i really want this sort of specific sound of of music but it's it's really hard to imitate that when you're like, if you're getting stock music, it so rarely sounds like the thing that you want. Yes. Or it sounds like a really obvious knockoff. And then that's bad, too. And then you're just like, oh, it sounds like we couldn't afford it, which we couldn't. So I'm also like known when I was on Full Frontal, the line producer would always shake his head on me because I was the quote unquote most expensive writer.

And then that was also the case on Black Lady Sketch Show. And then I went on Bless This Mess, which is on ABC. And I was like, I'm on network TV now. I can fly free. And after I wrote my episode, they were like, if we produce this episode, we won't be able to produce any more episodes. So I guess I'm just a really expensive writer. Bankrupting networks. I love that.

I love your pictures up in every line. Everyone who runs the money for a show. Well, I love that, though, because I think I sometimes limit my writing based on just having been told no so many times or producing my own stuff and be like, no, I know I'm going to have to duct tape this together. It gets in your head. So yeah, it's not good to

limit yourself. Yeah. I go big and then pull it back. Exactly. You can always scale down. That's smart. Yeah, and that's what was so great about starting in late night because you do get so much production experience that I know, like, I know how much it costs to set someone on fire. And so you should tell your boyfriend that. Yeah, you better watch it. I know how much it costs. Yeah. And you have to pay every time you do it.

So that is should be comforting to the boyfriend. You kind of know like how you can finagle things after you've done it a couple of times isn't it weird the weird particulars you're learning about like how much it costs yeah to douse someone in flames it's my favorite thing to ask like on set i'll just like lead over to someone and be like how much did this cost yeah we're gonna find out that Ashley's a serial killer and she's doing it out in the open for so long do you ever worry about the FBI coming

because of things you do well I know Ashley we don't what's a good place to bury things in the desert yeah where no one will find them that's why she's always moving it's like I had to leave LA and move to New York for a while. Yeah. Now I'm back in LA.

Until the heat's off. Well, Ashley, we love to ask people on this podcast for a piece of advice. I feel like you've already given a few, but for somebody who is coming up, wants to maybe get their first writing gig, if you have a piece of advice for that person. I feel like now is a really tough time to want to enter this business, just like given the COVID of it all. The good thing about being a writer is you can write from wherever you are. So right now I would advise people rather than coming out here, there's no production going on. There's nothing going on here. Stay where you are and write, write, write and have like a great

portfolio of whether it's scripts, sketches, whatever it is you want to do. So that when you do get out here, you already have this like body of work. Because I came here from Chicago. And because that's where I trained. It's comedy, but it's comedy with that like Midwestern work ethic. So everyone I knew was like doing shows every night of the week. That's just the Chicago thing and writing and working so hard. And when I got to L.A., I realized that like having a couple of scripts under my belt and a bunch of stage time put me miles ahead of a lot of people I was competing with who are definitely more attractive. But like I would go on audition. I remember one audition

specifically I went on. It said we're going to improvise in the audition. So I'm sitting in this room waiting to audition. Every woman is, you know, 95 pounds soaking wet in four inch heels. They're all gorgeous. I came in in jeans and a t-shirt and Chuck Taylors because they said we were going to improvise. Yeah. And when I walked in, that's the uniform. Yeah. Yeah. I did the audition and the lady was like, Oh my God, you can improvise. And I was like, yeah, just don't call it the four inch heels ladies when you want improvisers. Right. Those are models. Yeah. Yeah.

I can be like so intimidating to come out here. But if you come out with like a portfolio of work and some reps behind you, you'll get seen pretty quickly because a lot of people don't have that. So it can feel like a really tough time right now because you can't necessarily just like move to L.A. and start your dream right now. But this is a great time for prep so that when you do get here, you're kind of ahead of the class. Yeah, that's great advice. Because I mean, I think there's a lot of people who people have reached out to me and you know, they want to be writers, but they're in their minds. I think they're like, once I get the job, then I'll do the work. Yeah, they don't realize

how much free writing you have to do first before you get paid for it. First and during. And during, yeah. Me and my friends who have now been in the game for a while, if you're trying to sell a show or something, you're doing a lot of free writing. Like you better freaking love to write. Yes. For the sake of writing. Yeah. Or even like I was talking about on late night, writing stuff just to throw it away because the president did something differently crazy. And that's the thing we're going to like. You're not getting paid for the majority of writing you're doing. Totally. And you have to be OK with that piece of writing just going away. And it's probably never going to see the light of day.

Yep. Well, Ashley, thank you so much for being here. It was great talking to you. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks for having me. This was a lot of fun. It was a pleasure talking to you. Good luck at the Emmys. Yeah, they'll be right here in my home. Yeah, are you still going to get dressed up?

What happens? I don't know. I haven't thought about it, but maybe I'll dress up my top half. Yeah. Yeah, you know what? I think virtual Emmys, that's just as good, if not better. More comfortable for sure. There's a point in every Emmys where every part of my body hurts

because like as women, we're wearing very restrictive garments. Yeah. And then also the chairs are uncomfortable and it's hard to go to the bathroom. So you're not drinking. And like by midway through it, I'm just like every part that i have hurts and some parts i didn't know i had and this one at least half of me will be in sweatpants so yay i was gonna say you can wear your improv outfit yeah all right well good luck we'll be rooting yes good luck and hope to see you in the next season of black lady sketch show and maybe on a netflix-com. I don't know. I'm just going to put that. Yes, the people want.

Okay. See you. Bye. Thanks, Ashley. Thanks, guys. So that was Ashley Nicole Black. Thank you, Ashley. Thanks, Ashley.

Pleasure talking with you. Yes. And you, our listener, can watch episodes of a Black Lady Sketch Show on HBO Max. They're there now. We have a new listener question. Oh, it's from someone named Paul Day. That's a great name. And he starts off, hey y'all, love the podcast. Something I keep wondering about listening to this podcast and Conan Needs a friend and following the rabbit hole of comedy writers on podcasts in general, I keep hearing a packet mentioned. What all is involved in putting together a packet as a comedy writer? Is it a bunch of jokes? Do you have to really set the

scene like writing an entire script? Thank you. Keep up the more than mediocre work. Thank you, Paul. i'll take that i will take that this is a great question because i think we do talk about that a lot we assume everyone knows what that means like it's a a cv yes a packet is short for writer's submission packet yes which you usually need to get a job on a show unless your father hosts the show or... Or you have incriminating photographs. Exactly. Blackmail is always another way to go. But failing that, you usually have to write a packet. Yeah. And the requirements can all, they're always different for every show. So every late night show has a different set of packet requirements. And that's a good point. If you're interested in writing for

a late night show or any type of show, I mean, one of the key things to do is to actually spend a lot of time getting to know that show. Watching the show, yeah. Supposedly, if you really like the show, you've already done that. So you already kind of feel like, oh, I feel simpatico with this show. I feel like my sense of humor would work for that show. Yeah, what some of their segments are, who the characters are. Right. So yeah, ideally, you're not just changing the title of the show and your packet and then sending it off to a new show.

Right, which has happened. Yeah. People do that all the time. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. People have done submissions to our show with, you know, it's like, and then Jimmy. Tells Guillermo. Yeah. Right, right, right.

Hmm. But yeah, what's the packet requirement for our show? It's pretty simple. It would be 10 to 12 new ideas for the show in paragraph form for sketches. And the instructions would be kind of, the only detail would be, you know, if you want to add a joke or two to help sell the idea, you can add that as well to the pitch. So basically they're pitches in paragraph form. Yeah. You don't have to write out the full script, but you have to kind of, you set the table for what the sketch is about and then you write a few beats of the sketch. Like, these are some examples of jokes

you would do in the sketch. We used to do more desk pieces, but you could do a desk piece you set up very easily with just like, you know, new quarters. Right. And a desk piece is, you know, what it sounds like. It used to be conan had a desk yeah and then those you just do a long list of of jokes because that's what those pieces are they're right we call them joke buckets and now another writing packet would be if you're applying you know some late night shows are just looking specifically for monologue writers it's a slightly different skill set i i mean obviously there are writers who are great at both monologue and writing sketch ideas and scripts, but sometimes shows are just looking for monologue writers as

well. And in that situation on our show, it would be send us a page or two of topical jokes. Yeah. And they should probably mostly be fresh so that you can tell that someone's written them recently and we usually we don't even send them the premises it's just people would kind of have to dig up the premises and then write the punch lines for the jokes right which is kind of part of it is knowing what would be good material for a punch line right and then you know it's funny like sometimes people send in submissions for a monologue job but then the job wouldn't actually come up for like nine months and you'd have it on file. But you know what? You would read those jokes and go, oh, I remember this week.

Yes, exactly. I remember all of these premises. Oh, Anthony Scaramucci. That's right. Exactly. And you know what? If the jokes are good, even though the premises are dated, you could still read them and go, oh, you know what?

On these old subjects, these jokes are really funny takes. Yeah. So you don't have to worry about the person reading the jokes will understand. That it's dated, yeah. But it is good, I think, if you want to do that for a living, to start just writing jokes every day. Because I was so shocked by the volume of jokes that the monologue writers put out every day. Writing up to 50 jokes a day. Yeah. Oh, it's the success rate.

It basically boils down, by the time the show gets on the air, I'd say 1 in 10. Yeah. I think we've mentioned this before on the show, but that is, I think, probably the most shocking thing to maybe learn about if you're going into comedy writing. And the same thing for stand-up comics, throw that out. You're just throwing stuff out all the time. Right. So it's good to get used to that early. Yes. Writing for nobody to ever read uh well thank

you paul um and if anybody else has questions for us you can email us at inside conan pod at gmail.com or uh please give us a phone call and leave a voice message at 323-209-5303 yeah we promise no one will pick up. You can just leave a message. All right. Well, that's our show for the week. Yeah. All right. Take care.

We like you. Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast, is hosted by Mike Sweeney and me, Jesse Gaskell. Produced by Jen Samples. Engineered and mixed by Will Becton. Supervising producers are Kevin Bartelt and Aaron Blair. Executive produced by Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco. And Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Earwolf.

Thanks to Jimmy Vovino for our theme music and interstitials. You can rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts. And of course, please subscribe and tell a friend to listen to Inside Conan on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, or whatever platform you like best. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.