Inside Conan: An Important Hollywood Podcast - Conan O'Brien & Jeff Ross Return

Episode Date: August 2, 2023

Conan O’Brien and longtime executive producer Jeff Ross join Mike and Jessie to continue the origin story of Late Night, including auditioning bands, the terror of the first test shows, the impetus for the first cold open, and the original name Conan and Robert Smigel wanted for Late Night. Got a question for Inside Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone] or e-mail us at [e-mail]

And now, it's time for Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. Welcome to Inside Conan, a very important Hollywood podcast. Oh, radio voice. That was what I beg your pardon. The voice I usually use is my radio voice. I don't know why I haven't showed it off to you all these years. Hello, Jesse. I'm here with Jesse Gaskell.

Yes. Hi, Mike Sweeney. Hello. We're writers for Conan in some form or another. And now we host a podcast. Now we're writers for Conan in some form or another. And now we host a podcast. Now we're mostly a gas. A parasitic podcast. We're no longer solids.

No, we are gas. We are molecules very far apart from each other. This whole season we've been talking about Conan on the road. Conan O'Brien. Conan out in the wild, doing remotes, going on travel shows outside Conan. Yeah, we mostly stuck to that theme. We have. I think we've been pretty good for us.

I know, for sticking to anything. Yeah, exactly. It's been a really fun season and this is actually our season finale. This is the finale today. So, I know it went awfully fast. It did. It started slow because we were also in the middle of filming new travel shows. Right, for Max.

For Max. And we went to Norway. We went to Thailand. And I thought, oh, there's no way we're going to be able to finish this podcast because we're just simply too busy. Yeah. And then the writer simply too busy. Yeah. And then the writer's strike happened. Yes. And now?

And now I have nothing but time and I can't believe it's ending. Now we're each doing 20 podcasts. Yes. I know. I wish this could just continue. A lot of time for podcasts. I know. I know.

But yeah, so we're kind of up in the air. But, you know,'re season five is going to be amazing that's when we're going to re-watch every episode every episode of conan uh-huh all to four thousand four thousand episodes over four thousand episodes it's going to be a long season the strike needs to last that long yeah it. It's got to last 58 years. I calculated that's how long it's going to take. And then once we finish that, we can go back and listen to all the podcasts

and then give commentary on each podcast episode. We'll do the re-listening of Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend episodes. With director's commentary. Yeah. And we're covered for the next 150 years. But we have a great final episode. We do.

For the season. Yeah. It's a continuation in a way. It is a continuation. If you listened last season, we ended with a special guest named Conan O'Brien. And Jeff Ross. And Jeff Ross. Is executive,

long-time executive producer. And they told us the story of the origin story of Conan taking over late night. Taking over from David Letterman. Yeah. In 1992 to 1993. Yeah. And they went into such detail

that we only got up to the point where it was announced. We basically got through the auditions and then Conan got the phone call that he was getting off for the gig. Yeah, and that's where we stopped. And it's a pretty great cliffhanger and we're picking up right where we left off. Yeah, I mean, I love hearing them talk about it because they both have incredibly sharp memories of that time. Yeah. It must've just everything, every day must've been etched in there because it was all so new. I know you can tell. And there were so much, they're under so much pressure. And so this is all about them that summer trying to get the show ready to premiere. To launch right on September 13th, 1993.

Yeah, and they had to build sets. They had to start from scratch with no writer's staff and no staff at all. And there was no band. They had to put together a band. They were given an empty studio and an empty floor. And $5,000. Do a show, boys.

Get to work, designers. Yeah. And I mean, you know, you just see a show appear on the air. You don't think of, I can't imagine anything harder than creating a show from scratch. Especially when you're following Late Night with David Lowe. Yeah. And you're trying to not be the same thing that he was, but also kind of appeal to the same audience.

Yeah, no, you're taking over for Titan. Uh-huh. And you have to do it in like three months. I would never do it. I would never do it. Okay, I would do it. Well, let's get right into it with Conan and Jeff Ross. Conan O'Brien and Jeff Ross.

Oh, that Conan. Yeah. Here we are. We are back with two of our most popular guests in the history of this podcast. It's true. Look at the stats, the metrics. They don't lie. We're here with Conan O'Brien and Jeff Ross.

It's about time Conan was on Inside Conan. That's right. The snake eats the tail. Uh-huh. Yeah. No, it's nice. We enjoyed it last time. It was fun.

We came on and it's like you put us in a trance and we started regurgitating the crazy story of how we... It was amazing. How I went from being a Simpsons writer to being the replacement

for David Letterman, which was one of the crazier stories I will still maintain in the history of show business. Yeah. And I got to tag along. Yeah. You were part of it.

You were the radioactive spider that bit him. Exactly. That's right. Jeff's behind all of this. Well, no, wait. Lauren's the radioactive spider. Yes. Yeah.

And then Jeff is Aunt May. That works. It all goes down to this. It's all in the Spider-Verse. Look into it. Yeah, so we got to, last time we had you here, we got to-

You had just gotten the offer to host and take over for Letterman and you said yes. You took over the ninth floor. It was a totally empty office. It was you at one corner, Jeff Ross at the other corner.

And you happened to be there when Letterman taped his last show down on the sixth floor. And so you went down and, you know, it was a powerhouse last show. Springsteen was on it, Tom Hanks.

And you went down, I think, and Smigel, Robert Smigel and Bob Odenkirk, you three went down to hang out. Well, Smigel was down there already.irk, the U3 went down to hang out. Well, Smigel was down there already.

He was down there and he called me. Yeah, Robert was down there and he's a huge Springsteen fan. And of course, Letterman fan. He went down and he called me in my office. And this is before, I mean, I didn't have a cell phone, I don't think. He just called me in my office

where I was sitting there alone, watching the last show and it ended. And then he called me and said, you really should come down. Dave would like to see you, which I thought I would not. I don't think I would have gone down on my own, but he said, no, he would really like to see you.

So I went down. I could see you not going down on your own. Yeah. No, I, yeah. It's not quite my speed. You, I worry. You don't want to linger out there in the foyer. Yeah.

And, but anyway, so I think we covered all that. I think I went down there and. Well, the way you ended it, the way we ended last time, basically, was Tom Hanks, who was on the show,

came up to you and you said he put his hand on your shoulder and looked right at you and said, I wrote it down. This is, sorry,

what just happened to you doesn't happen. It never happened. Yeah, he did. He did say that. And then Jeff was saying- He didn't stammer as much as you. Because he was sober.

I don't have my glasses on. I couldn't read it. I love that. Well, let me read back to you exactly what he said. I'm sorry I don't have my monocle in. exactly in his head. Habada, habada, habada. Habada, habada, habada. Habada, habada, habada. I'm sorry I don't have my monocle in. And then Jeff said they immediately

started tearing down. Oh, right. Yes, they started tearing it down and that was, that's where we left last time. And you were like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think there was a moment of walking around this empty studio. It might have been the next day. Yeah. Everything was ripped out and it was just

completely empty. We were just like, this is too weird. Studio 6A was completely ripped out and it was just completely empty. We were just like, this is too weird. Studio 6A was completely ripped out. And I maintain, we have, if you think about it now, it seems insane to me that I'm completely green. I've never hosted a late night show. I've never hosted anything.

And Jeff's never produced this kind of show before. And we're taking over for Letterman. Everyone's upset because of the way Letterman left. They felt like he was denied his rightful position as the Tonight Show host. So people were upset about that. To succeed Johnny Carson. Yeah, to succeed Johnny Carson. So that went to that other guy.

And then, so there was a lot of sturm und drang and angst. And yeah, I remember very clearly looking at this, Jeff and I are looking at this big, empty concrete rectangle. And it's May. You could look up the date, or I think it's May. It might even be late May. I don't know. Probably late May.

Sweeps. Sweeps. So it would be late May back then. And then- And sweeps mattered. So if you think about it, we had a premiere date set because the affiliates needed that, which was September 13th. So we don't have, we think about it, May is almost gone. So we've got June, July, August.

And then we have three months and then test shows have to start. Wow. And to this day, I think that's just not enough time. It's, you know, and we didn't have, I didn't have, wanted Robert Spangl to be the head writer, but he wasn't signed up yet. And it was a question of whether or not that deal would even happen.

We didn't know what the set was going to be. We didn't have a band, no writers, no sidekick, nothing. And I think, you know, I just did this interview in New York with Paul McCartney, where he was showing photographs of, you know, the Beatles in 63, 64, when they're coming to do the Ed Sullivan show. And the point I was trying to make to him was that we all look at these photos differently. We look at them as here the Beatles are, and everybody knows it's going to work out. So we are watching it with that bias. But, and anyone now, when I talk to young people

and I say, well, I didn't think I was going to make it. They think, well, of course you were going to make it. But it's 30 years later and they're going by the bias of, all I see is your shit bouncing around different places and you're just... I can't turn it off my Samsung TV. Yeah, this tired old shoe that's been around forever.

What do you mean you didn't think you'd become a shoe? They think you're trying to be modest. Yeah, and it seemed like it was a miracle that we would ever get this together in such a short amount of time. Didn't you think so? We had nothing. It was like two of us,

maybe one or two other people in this cavernous office with nobody. Empty. Empty. Yeah. Did you take turns getting each other their lunch? Probably. It's your turn.

I mean, we really didn't have any idea what we were doing. Right. It's terrifying. Yeah, it. Right. It's terrifying. Yeah, it was terrifying. It was terrifying. And I would go routinely from, I remember I didn't have much time.

There was no time. And so there was this order of things that had to happen, which is gotta get the head writer first. And I knew it had to be Robert Smigel because Robert and I were very, we had worked together on Saturday Night Live. We had done this pilot, Look Well with Adam West. And we could kind of finish each other's sentences

comedically. And I knew we both had this very crystal clear idea of what the show needed to be and how it needed to be silly. And it had to be post, you know, I don't know, post Letterman, meaning not ironic, all this kind of stuff. And, but we had to, there was so much that we had to do.

And I remember it was a while getting Robert's. It took a little longer than we wanted to. To get Robert's deal made. Yeah, yeah. September 12th. And then no other writers were getting hired at that point. Right, and so we couldn't hire writers till we got Robert on board.

And I remembered it's just the bureaucracy of deal-making and back and forth and it didn't happen quickly. And then I remembered at one point, a guy that worked at NBC saying, well, let's just move on from Robert. And I thought, meaning this deal was taking a while. So who else will you bring in? And I said, there isn't anyone else.

You know what I mean? It's just felt like there isn't another. It's got to be Robert. And man. And it did have to be. It did. No, but I was having heart attacks all the time. So when you said yes to, hey, I'm going to take this over, and now you're here.

I didn't say, no, that's a misstatement. Because to be clear, there was no like, would you like to do it? I auditioned for it. Which means you like it. like to do it i auditioned i auditioned for it which means i didn't and then wasn't sure until i did the audition and thought god damn that felt right right that felt really good and jeff was there and jeff jeff you know was running it kind of and jeff came up after the you know monologue and was like oh okay suddenly jeff was looking at me differently like he's not i think i don't know if we spoke about it last time,

but I remember between the two guests, I forget who went first, I wrote on the, we had a script and on the back of the script, I wrote, you're killing and just slid it in front of her. Right. I thought it said, my glasses weren't on.

I thought it said, you will be killed. You don't even need glasses. No, I didn't need glasses. Jeff's a great motivator. And you got excited, Conan. So what happens is they don't call and bring you into a room and go, so would you like to do this or not? What happens is I got a call that said, you've got it. You're doing it.

You're going to go on The Tonight Show tonight and be announced. So there was no, so it just happened. And I'm not complaining because I definitely asked for it. But once it happens, it's so overwhelming. And yeah, we didn't have, I just remember thinking, this is no time at all. Anyway, I think a big turning point was Robert's deal got made. Then we could start looking at packets. Everyone was sending packets in.

And we were looking at packets. Everyone was sending packets in and we were looking at them. I think the first person hired was Dino Stamatopoulos was the first writer. And I remember being elated because Dino, we liked his packet. He had the office right next to mine. And he went and he sat at his desk and started writing it down ideas. And I thought, we have a writer. And he knows how to write. And he's writing something with a pen. You know, like we're on our way. I was so grabbing it. Any good news. I was busy running around,

making believe I knew what I was doing. Yeah, yeah. No, but- I did busy running around making believe I knew what I was doing. Yeah, yeah. I did a lot of making believe. Well, there's one thing we needed was we needed a band and a set. So I think Robert and I were really focused on getting these writers and

you were saying, okay, because Lorne Michaels is the executive producer. We got to get this set together. And Lorne Michaels had a designer named- Eugene Lee. Named Eugene Lee. Who recently passed away.

Yeah, who recently passed away. Eugene Lee- And Eugene and all his, you know, he came with Keith and Leo as a whole group of people. They're all these people that were from SNL. We had a lot of SNL people at the time helping us. And I remember, yeah. And obviously-

Which could cut both ways. No, but what I'm saying is they, this began the first major question, which was Robert and I both, we didn't want this to be like an extension of SNL. We wanted it to have its own identity. So all these, you know, when the SNL people came in

who were great and super talented, one of the first things we said to Eugene Lee was, we just want to make sure it doesn't look like SNL. Right. Meaning, and Eugene Lee had famously come up with this design ethic for SNL, which was, you know, sort of urban. Very New York. Very New York.

Very New York, outside spaces. Girders, a lot of. So we gave him that mandate and that story will continue later. But so he goes off to work on that. And I remember for some reason, I think someone had given me, I have very clear memories of certain things. Someone had given me kind of like a metal briefcase that looked like it was made of like aluminum. It wasn't that expensive, but I had gotten it for Christmas, like the year before from one of my brothers or one of my sisters had given me this metal briefcase. It looked like,

kind of like the kind of drug dealer would use in an 80s movie and it you know you click it open and you'd open it it was just like this aluminum case it should be full of cash it should be full of cash and it should be releasing a kidnap victim i remember really clearly i had this office there was nothing in it but like an iron desk that I think had been around since like the fifties and a crappy chair. And then I had that briefcase and I had writer's submissions in it, but I walked around with this iron briefcase. And I remembered every night I would leave the office, I would pass 6A and then be in there. You should have handcuffed it to yourself. I know, but every night there was nothing happening in there yet. You know what I mean?

It just, it's an every night I would get getting closer and closer. The studio was just still an empty show. I would go, I would go home and just think, I mean, I wish I had used recreational drugs. I think that's the way I could have gotten through it,

but I didn't. I just ate potatoes and fried beef. The truth is when you have a set, when you design a set, nothing happens for a long time. Right. And then when it's supposedly done, it all gets installed in like a day.

So there was a lot of time where there was nothing there. And it's been built. Also, we were having, this is, I'm drawing a rectangle. And I'm holding it up. And you can look this up online. But this is a rectangle. And here's those famous double doors that characters walk in and out of right there.

And the Letterman setup had been, you know, I think, whatever, desk here, blah, blah, blah. And then audience here, you know. And this is all the audience. and everything is angled that way. Right. Of course, Robert was like, wouldn't it be cool? Because this isn't going to be enough space for all the great comedy ideas we have. Shouldn't we do it the other way? Shouldn't the audience be here?

And that way the desk can be here and we have all of this room. Super wide. And I remember thinking, yeah, yes, I agree. So the first thing we start doing is we start saying we want to completely reorient

the way 6A is set up so it goes a different way. And of course, we're dealing with Rick Ludwin who has also passed away, but was an amazing champion of mine and Jeff's and the show.

Late night executive. Just a great, great man. We showed it to him and he was like, what are you talking about? This means you have like next to no audience. Giant, long, and Robert and I are-

You need more characters. More characters. Yeah, and Robert and I were like, well, we just, we want plenty of room so that when 35 characters come out dressed as a Pope and a mule, and there's also a cartoon character and there's a Zeppelin,

there's plenty of room for them. And then Conan can just be in the corner for the occasional guest interview. You also couldn't move the seats. There's no room room for them. And then Conan can just be in the corner for the occasional guest interview. You also couldn't move the seats. There's no room for the guests. You couldn't move the seats. Oh, yeah. They were like built in like, you know, there was, you know, remember the rake of the studio?

Yeah. It's all like, you know, a huge job to reorient the entire. Oh, so that all stayed in. Yeah. I believe, I believe that the, yes, the way it was set up was just next to impossible to change around right and yet we were what are we doing we have so much to do right right and the first thing we're saying is um i know this is a great boat but can we make it a car yeah and there was there was a lot of a. It was another one I remember,

which is we really wanted to not be in Letterman's shadow. I didn't, you know, and Robert would say a lot, I just, you know, you don't want to be compared to Letterman. And you think, well, there's no, I'm replacing Letterman. There's no way to avoid that. And there was this sense that I'm going to get killed by the press and everybody, because Dave is at the height of his powers and I'm like an amoeba, you know? going to get killed by the press and everybody because Dave is at the height of his powers and

I'm like an amoeba you know he is this he's this fully formed falcon that can see 10,000 miles and can an apex predator he's a tyrannosaurus rex and I'm three-celled piece of algae that's just replaced him and I'm going to need a million years to grow a couple of legs. And so the funniest thing was, I remember it was Robert's idea. He's like, we should change the name of the show so it's not Late Night. So we were thinking, and I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we came up, we came up, we start planning. And then we came up with the name that we wanted.

Right. Which was Nighty Night. Really? Yeah, Nighty Night with Conan O'Brien. Like, Nighty Night, which we thought was just really cartoony and funny and arch. Kind of peewees play. And so we had a meeting, I'll never forget,

in this office in 30 Rock. Not in our offices, but a special office that Rick had. Just where they take you to yell at you. Yeah, we told Rick, we wanted to meet with him. I don't think Jeff was there for this. I think he knew better. I think he was like, yeah, why don't you guys run along and pitch that?

So we went up and we went, you know, we're worried about being compared to Letterman. And Rick was like, well, I have to tell you, I think you'll be compared to Letterman, what you would do. And I said, well, you know, we're thinking we're going to change the name Late Night. And he goes, ah, well, let me tell you something.

That is a, we own that name, Late Night. Franchise. It is a franchise. It is a very popular franchise. It's been very good to us since 1983 or 82. And it's for 11 years. It has been a benchmark. And I think we own that.

We wouldn't get rid of it unless there was a spectacular new name. And we said, well, strap yourself in. I hope you're sitting. Are you sitting down, Rick? Because here we go. And we said, well, strap yourself in. Are you sitting down, Rick? Because here we go. And we said, we want to call it Nighty Night with Conan O'Brien. And Rick started going. If you remember, Rick Lubin's a very proper exec.

He's the cartoon of an executive. Again, wonderful guy, but he's wearing a tie. He's like clip art. Yeah, he looks like, yes, exactly. Class wearing a tie. He looks like a- He's like clip art. Yeah, he looks like, yes, exactly. He looks like he should- Classically Midwestern. He looks like he should be a page.

And he's wearing like a tie and his jacket's buttoned and he's wearing his, you know, his chinos and his shoes. And I'm saying it's nighty night. Robert's like, yeah, nighty night.

And Rick starts to go remember this thing he would do I think I was actually there he starts scratching the back of his head and going okay

and I think he had a thing and I think I could see like he was tearing flesh and he went okay okay

I'll tell you what this I'll tell you this it is late night it's going to be late night it's going to be late night. It's going to remain late night. It is late night with Conan O'Brien. It's not going to be nighty night.

And we like back down the room. And then, okay, so quickly, our two first attempts to put our own stamp on this are terribly misguided. Yeah. But then writers start showing up. We start finding really great people and I do remember

at one point the sound effects guy what was his name Bill come to me and right around the same time we start meeting the crew and he comes up

and he says guys you know I was the guy on the sound you know I hit the you know

and let him throw the pencils through the window I would do the the crashing the crashing of the of the window the breaking through the window. I would do the, you know. The crashing. The crashing of the window, the breaking of the window. So if you want to do that,

I know how to do that. And I remember us both going, yeah. No, it was so funny because constantly. That we will keep. Constantly people were saying. You remember that? Yes, I remember that. And I remember also hearing, you know,

you can do top 10 list because that belongs to NBC. And I thought, what are you fucking talking about? As a creative person, I don't want to do top 10 list. And also I'll get like, I don't want to do it. A it's great thing, but it's Dave's thing. What are you talking about? But the, so you were hearing, I mean, first of all, there was so many misguided ideas. We had some writers started showing up and someone had a cat. So we had a late night cat that was living with us on the floor, which is completely illegal. There was a cat living, you know, in 30 Rock, the Art Deco. Sounds like a halfway house.

It was the Art Deco, you know, shrine to broadcasting. And we're hiring, all the writers we hired had never worked in television before. And so, but. Odenkirk was part of it. Odenkirk came in and was helping. Louis C.K. was part of it. Odenkirk came in and was helping Louis C.K. Yeah. Was an early hire.

Andy Richter, I mean, I've told this story a million times, but we heard from Jeff Garlin. Jeff Garlin said, oh, you guys should talk to this guy, Andy Richter. He's really funny. He's in the Annoyance Theater in Chicago and he's out in LA. And so I think Robert had met with him. So I had to go meet with him. So I just met with him at a deli, like in the Valley.

Yeah, I remember you guys eating borscht. No, not you guys. It was a really hot day. And I walked in and I said, you know, I'll have whatever. I'll have a Coca-Cola and, you know, whatever, a corned beef sandwich, typical Irish. It's good for hot weather. Yeah. And he was like, he said, I'll have the borscht.

And I said, he sounds like Roseanne. But then, but I remember, what I remember is immediately, immediately, I mean, it's just like a good date. It was just chemical. I just liked him right away. And we fucked around and talked at the table. And I left the meeting and I said, I called Robert and I said, we got to hire him. And Robert said, he hasn't submitted a packet. We have to see his writing.

And I was like, I don't know that we do. He just seems like a guy we need. And Robert said, nope, we got to see a packet. We have to see his writing. And I was like, I don't know that we do. He just seems like a guy we need. And Robert said, nope, we got to see his packet. So we asked for a packet. Andy wrote up some stuff. We read it. It was good. And so we said, I was so relieved because once Andy showed up, I started to feel like we're, it's like Robin Hood. We're starting to get our people and And we have a cat. And then it's time to, it's getting later and later in the game. Test shows.

We're not there yet because we have, it's time to see a design for the set. Oh, right. And so. Right. And there's been people off working on this. Well, working on the design. Yeah.

So we had said to Eugene- Eugene Lee. Eugene Lee. I want to say Eugene Levy, which don't get Eugene Levy to design your set. No, Eugene Lee. And Eugene Lee, again, I will stress, Eugene Lee, very talented guy.

And he'd done stuff on Broadway and he had done all those iconic sets for SNL. So really a brilliant guy. And he came in, and we just kept saying, what we don't want is the outdoor New York architectural like wrought iron kind of thing. SNL. SNL. We don't want that. The rent set.

Yeah. And so he came in, and he had this cardboard thing, and it was under a blanket, like a blanket. He displays it. He reveals it. Voila. He wanted, like a blanket. He displays it. He reveals it. Voila. He wanted to do a voila. So we get into a room and it was the room that ended up being, you would know it. It was the big meeting conference.

The conference room on the other end of the hall. So we're in that conference room. The show is now like, has to premiere in like six weeks. Test shows start in four weeks. And Eugene comes in and he says, okay, well, here says okay well here you know you know here it is and um we're all much younger than this guy and he's like okay well here it is you know he puts it down and he goes and voila and he removes it and it's an iron spiral staircase it's snl it's snl it's snl it's an sn set. But it's iron instead of copper.

It actually leads to that set. Yeah. But he's also, I mean, he's telling us, this is what I'm going to do. And my heart sinks the minute I see it. And I can, you know, all of Robert, Jeff,

and then we're just like, and then so I start to say, okay, well, the thing is, it looks a lot like SNL and we're really hoping to go in a different direction than that I don't think you got the whole sentence out

what I did is I said we don't want to do the whole thing and he said I'll never forget I said some sentence and Eugene went okay he was holding it he said well okay if you don't want it then maybe you can get someone else and he was holding it. He said, well, okay, if you don't want it,

then maybe you can get someone else to build the fucking set. And he tore it up and threw it against the wall and stormed out. Door shuts, pieces of cardboard on the floor. Yeah. And I know exactly that it faces south. It's now six weeks out.

The designer just tore up the set. He's an older guy than me. He's an adult, screamed at me, ran out of the room. I looked out the window, and it's the closest I've come. I swear to God, I thought I could just go. I could just like go out the window because- And you would win the argument then. I would come back and throw you.

It was the beginning of a few low moments to come. And there were many low moments to come, but that was... Did he apologize? Did he... Well, no, not really. All right. Not really.

Wow. No. That's so dramatic. He did come back. He didn't really come back, but a year later after we were on the air. That's so dramatic. He did come back. He didn't really come back, but a year later after we were on the air. We needed a set. So he didn't do the set at all?

No, Keith Raywood did the set. Oh, Keith Raywood did it. Yeah. So he didn't, so yeah, we ended up, now of course on our own, we made plenty of goofy decisions because exit that decision. And then what do we do?

We talked to Keith Raywood and he builds basically. And again, this was a lot of at our direction. He was under the gun and he didn't have time. Yeah. So Keith isn't, this is not on Keith and this is on us saying kind of what we want. And we get this, this, this, it's like a nice little room. If you watch the beginning of the show, the late night show, I still have a lot of affection for it because there's, but it looks like a dean's office. And the other funny thing is the color that we went wanted. There's a lot of law books.

Yeah, I was looking for any other job at that point. But the color, the color was mustard. Right. Now, here I am. You always refer to it as a mustard colored set. I didn't know, I don't know much about,

of course, I don't know anything about anything. If I know one thing after all these years, it's put a guy with my coloring who's super pale

but has blue eyes and red hair against blue. Yeah. It just works. Don't overthink it. No, say the young idiots. The opposite of the color wheel. Who wanted to reorient the studio,

call it nighty night, get a cat, you know, just making all these crazy decisions left and right. Mustard yellow. And I think it just, I think a lot of viewers, when they ended up airing the show, thought I had jaundice, you know? I think his liver's failing was the most common.

I think we might've changed it like six months in. No, we did. No, no, no. Well, I mean, you can see, if you see those, it lasts for a while. And we weren't worried about, we were. No, no, no. Well, I mean, you can see, if you see those, it lasts for a while. It lasts for a while. And we weren't worried about, we were more worried about us lasting rather than, we just thought someone else would be on this set. I guess it was the idea of asking for a new set was at that point down on the list.

Yeah, it was way down the list. But we start to get the set squared away. Meanwhile, there's no band. I was going to say, did you have the band yet? No. No, but what happened there was I was staying in Midtown. Riga Royal Hotel. At the Riga Royal Hotel.

And I'm looking, I mean, I'm under so much pressure. Oh, so you don't even have an apartment yet? No, I have a hotel. Oh, wow. So I'm under a lot of pressure. You really weren't planning on staying long. I was under a lot of pressure. And I remembered planning on staying long no I was under a lot of pressure and I remembered

I never get headaches but I was getting headaches and I'm up in my hotel and like trying to figure out how are we going to get through this or how are we going to

hire these people or how are we going to shoot what should be the sketches that we do that are going to really represent who we are right away and I have a headache and there's no aspirin.

I'll never forget. I like asked for aspirin at the front desk and they said, we don't have it. So I went, oh, okay. So I went out and I walked down the street and I run right into Max Weinberg from Bruce Springsteen and he's walking with his wife and I recognize him and he recognizes me. And he goes, Conan. Hey, Conan. That's what he called me. And he goes, Conan, hey Conan. That's what he called me for 30 years after that.

Conan. And we chatted a little bit and he said, I'm telling you, I know how to put this band together for you. And I was, I just thought, well, I don't, I mean, maybe he does. He got right into it with you on the street? Pretty quickly. He had right into it with you on the street? Pretty quickly. He had been there for three weeks. Yeah, he was the one that stole the aspirin from the hotel and said, make sure he walks out.

No, but whatever happened, we were chatting and he said, I could do it. And I said, okay, well, you know, definitely we're looking. And I thought, I know that he had, he was no longer drumming with Springsteen. Springsteen had gone solo at that point. He had famously fired the band.

Yeah. He had gone all Nebraska. What's that? Yeah. No, no, it was just would be Tunnel of Love. Okay. Yeah. But yeah, he says he can do it.

I don't know much and there's a lot of craziness, behind the scenes craziness that would take forever to explain, but basically there ends up being an audition and there's a couple of bands that are put together. And we videotaped them.

We videotaped them. Probably videotaped four or five. Yeah. So we're sitting in there and I'll never forget, John Lurie was one. Yep. What's the name of his band?

John Lurie and the Lounge Lizards. Was it the Lounge Lizards? I think so. Or was it a band he put, I don't remember. Maybe it was a band he put together. And they were really good, but it was ironic

and kind of. Very hip. It was very hip and very downtown. And I remember like thinking, these guys are amazing and I have a lot of respect for John Lurie

he's great I remember thinking I don't know that's the way to go and then we look at someone else and then here Max Weinberg's here

and he comes in and he's with Jimmy Vivino his brother Jerry Vivino he's with that crazy horn section the bass player and then I

you knew them I La Bamba and Pender, the trombone player. La Bamba of year 2000. Year 2000 fame. And Mark Pender, the trumpet player. When I was Diana Russ's road manager like 10 years earlier, they were the Asbury Jukes horn section,

which she hired to go on the road with. So I was on the road with those. I knew them. And I walked in and we hadn't seen each other in like 10 years. It was like, I was thinking to myself, those I knew them and I walked in and we hadn't seen each other in like 10 years it was like I was thinking to myself I didn't say out loud I was like

is this like an omen of some sort right run into these guys so they they launch into it and I want to say they played

I think they played the Peter Gunn theme correct and I wasn't they sounded amazing now I wasn't crazy about that because that was a song that G. Correct. And I wasn't, they sounded amazing. Now, I wasn't crazy about that because that was a song that G.E. Smith used to play

at SNL. So a sketch would end that had no ending. You know, grapefruits. I thought this was a deli. No laughs. by the way that would be a sketch that I wrote and then but then we said then they said they had something else they could play

and they played and they played this thing that goes da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da and it was sort of a Cajun, like a Cajun. Everybody. And it was, and then it kicks into this whole thing.

It does that. And then it kicks into a whole thing. And I swear to God, I was like, this is it. It was obvious. And I leaned over to Jeff and I said, buy me this band.

Like no, like no question. Like no question. No fucking question. I don't know if you remember this. They had a second keyboard player. Yeah. There was two keyboards. And that when we got into it, it was like, we can't have two keyboards. Right.

For whatever reason. Scott Healy shot the other guy. No joke. But anyway, so suddenly we have that band. Yeah. And then I'm starting to think like maybe there's hope. We'll have the band play for an hour. Yeah.

And then. Yeah, all these little building blocks start, once they start assembling, had to. Oh, and you know, Lorne, I would weigh in on different things. Lorne wasn't crazy about the band. Right. He didn't have a problem with the band. He just knew that I was hiring Bruce Springsteen's drummer.

And he said, the press will go after you for making a 70s move. You know, it's 1993 and this is a 70s move. I think he said 80s. Oh, I remember. He said 70s. It's like, he's pretty big. But anyway, he said 80s. Oh, I remember. He said 70s. It's like, he's pretty big. But anyway, he said it's- He's trying to make a point.

Yeah. And he wasn't thrilled about it. And I think he was also getting some maybe advice that to go a different way. Right. From someone. And I dug my heels in. I dug my heels in on Robert and said it had to be robert and i dug my heels in and said it has to be uh max and these guys and um i'm sure it took a lot

for you to do when you're there and already kind of feeling grateful to be there you know what's interesting not when you know you're right okay like that's the weird thing is if i don't know i'm right i i don't know but when you know you're right you're right yeah you just you know you're right. Okay. Like that's the weird thing is if I don't know I'm right, I don't know. But when you know you're right, you're right. Yeah. You just, you sensed it.

You just. Well, it's also conviction. I mean, there were stories later on that we'll never get to that decisions were made based on conviction and not anything

much more than that. Yeah. There was a real, almost, it was in its own way, very an ideological show. There was a real almost it was in its own way very an ideological show there was a lot of this is what the show has to be

and almost like a thesis was written yeah well it was like there could be a you know there could be like a bible almost written about this is the kind of comedy we do this is the kind of comedy we don't do and I think I felt that way Robert felt that way it's got to be almost written about, this is the kind of comedy we do. This is the kind of comedy we don't do. And I think I felt that way.

Robert felt that way. And it's gotta be, Letterman's thing, which was so brilliant, was there was the talk show, which is Johnny Carson. Then there's the anti-talk show, which people thought,

which was more Letterman, which is ironic. And then this has to be what's next. And it was almost this sort of postmodern. Right. It's going to be a mix of Pee Wee's Playhouse and SCTV. When we do false reality, I won't wink at the camera and say, like Dave had this way of always letting you know,

I'm David Letterman. I'm not buying any of this shit. So people can rant and rave around me. It's all happening. Yeah, yeah. But we all know what's happening here. And our thing was, he's brilliant at that. It's great.

But ours has to be, if I'm in the audience and someone stands up and he's a sea captain, I need to completely believe that he's a sea captain. Or if a sketch calls for me to be suddenly broke and crying and wondering at my wits end, I have to really commit to that. You can't break character. I can't break. And so there was a lot. We wanted animation.

We wanted puppets. We wanted real silliness. And what was really important is that nobody was watching over us. We wanted animation. We wanted puppets. We wanted real silliness. And what was really important is that nobody was watching over us. Oh, right. No, and that's true. We were, I mean, other than Rick, who was in LA, we were in New York. We just kept going and nobody was really paying attention. And I think that might be the most crucial point that Jeff made that because

everyone, even if I was not in that situation and someone told me, yeah, they picked a guy who was 29 when I auditioned, um, and has no experience. And they picked a producer who's done some work with the kids in the hall, but most of his work has been in music. And there's no way that they're not all over them. But we were in New York and most of the people are in LA. It's still a little surprising. You guys must have given off some sort of confidence. Well, at least when these other people were around.

That's what I say. I spent most of my time faking it and making it look like I knew what I was doing until I figured it out. You know who actually was helpful? Morty was helpful. Yeah. It was Robert Morty who produced The Letterman Show. Right. At NBC and then went with him to CBS.

Right. He's a close friend of mine and I would call him about certain things. And his basic advice was ignore everybody. That's great advice. Which was true. Which was the advice you needed. Yeah. Because otherwise you let all those voices in.

Yeah. But there wasn't even anybody really interfering. No, no. It was, you know, and also I think there was another element here too, which is if you get too close and it's a disaster uh you don't want to get blood and brains on yeah so i think there was a little bit of a lot of that's i'm gonna say actually a lot a lot of there's me and there's this feeling of like this kid could get killed right literally killed on television in in a month i don't want to be in the blast i don't want to be in the blast zone when people say how the fuck did this happen

right so i'm happy to kind of hang back and then i remember another thing from that summer was there some marketing guys came in and told us what their marketing plan was because they say no one knows who you are, so we're going to tell them. And it was mostly about how I'm tall. And it was this whole, they had these boards like, he's taller than average. He's 6'4". You know, and...

You can touch the rim when you jump. Yeah, exactly. And I... That was another moment where my heart was sinking and I was thinking, when people watch television, they don't care how tall you are. Yeah, it doesn't really translate on screen. It's not really.

It definitely doesn't translate. We've learned that. We've learned that. Everywhere I go in life, people cannot believe that I'm a large man because my personality is that of a very small, petty man. I felt like I was like, personally, I was like a blender and I was like the cover

of a, you know when you make a shake and you put everything in there and you hold the thing on so it doesn't become a mess. I think I was that. I was just holding it all in one place. And I was a pureed banana. Robert was some

kale and protein powder. Andy was maraschino cherries, which are not doctor advised. I remember some of the moments I remember a lot from this summer was, okay, this is where the Ford Taurus comes into the picture. I had left Saturday Night Live and gone to the Simpsons about two years earlier and needed a car so I bought a don't ask me why

I'd saved up all my money I never bought anything and I decided I want that I heard there was a Ford Taurus that had a stick shift that was kind of say no more and so and I just remember thinking this is so me tourists that had a stick shift. Say no more. That was the part I couldn't believe. I just remember thinking, this is so me. The ladies will love this. This is a real panty dropper.

I always had to be that guy. I couldn't just go out and get like... I had the money to get a nice BMW or something, but no. I was like, wait a minute. You got an ironic car. Yes, I got an ironic car

and I thought it was cool because it has this special engine. It's really, it's fast. It's got a stick shift, but no one knows because it looks just like a Ford Taurus that a mom would like drive kids to soccer in. It's a metaphor for you. Exactly, exactly.

No, who knows? It's a Ford Taurus SHO. That's what I'm saying. Super high output. It was called the show. And so I get that. So then I take that. I have that and it's in the parking garage.

It's on the south side of, across from the marquee of NBC. Right. And I remembered I would, and I'll never forget this cell phone would just make kids laugh today it was this giant it was the first time I had a car phone

I had one installed and they were giant some of us would not remember those days I'm telling you you would laugh really hard it's really big and it doesn't really work is the other thing

so I remembered because no one else had one the curly antenna on the back of the right oh yeah like a CB radio

so I would when there was a weekend I would just get in that thing that Ford Taurus and just drive because the city so much energy and nervousness

and everywhere I went, people were like, you're that fucking guy who's going to die in a couple weeks. And so, I would just drive out of- I saw him while he was still alive.

I saw him. You could tell he was going to die. And yeah, I'd see, so I would drive out and my parents had a place in Westerly, Rhode Island and I would go there

on the weekend. And I remember Lauren would call me call me you know to sort of check in on how it's doing and everything have you run away yet you know and really max weinberg and i'm driving and i'm holding the phone but it's terrible technology and there's probably three cell towers in the northeast at that point so he'd be like and the one thing you need to remember to do is and whatever you do don't and whatever you do don't and I think

one thing you need to obviously do is and I'm also trying to shift and you can't shift and talk on this big clunky thing there's no hands free so I crashed a lot and it was just a big disaster. And I love this mental picture of you. And then I went to my parents' house

and they had this white house with just a little picket fence. And I get there and the show is in a couple of weeks and I've parked my Ford Taurus in the backyard and I'm just sitting on the front porch the next morning trying to stay calm. And I'll never forget this. I'm sitting on the front porch with my dad and there's this little white picket fence that has a little Ivy around it. And I'm, I'm just telling my dad, I'm just so, and he was like, well, you know, I think it's, remember, it's all going to

be okay. And I started to relax a little bit when this big truck came around the corner, misjudged the turn and knocked down the picket fence right in front of us, crashed it, knocked it all down. And we're both sitting there and my father went, you should go inside. You're a known person now. Like, I shouldn't be there in case someone comes by. They might go, oh, wait a minute. It's that guy who's going to die in a couple of weeks. You know, maybe it's.

Was that his fault? It was his fault. So I remember going inside and thinking, this is wait a minute. It's that guy who's going to die in a couple of weeks. You know, maybe it's... Was that his fault? It was his fault. So I remember going inside and thinking, this is an omen. Yeah. Then, you know, Lauren was like, get a truck in there and kill him. Eugene Lee, drive up to... Yeah, it was Eugene. We need you in Rhode Island.

Get in like I said, or you're going to die! So things like that were happening all the time. I did get an apartment that was right across I sublet an apartment you remember it was 65th it's right across the street from Tavern on the Green

right on the park on the park but when I looked out and I could see the air conditioning fans and all the lights on Tavern on the Green

and I used to look out that window and just think I don't know I just don't know. I just don't know. Would you walk? If I jumped, would they shred me?

I know, I know. Shoot, there's a grate over them. God damn. You ever been asked, did we walk to work? Because I lived in the neighborhood also. Yeah, yeah. You do a lot of walking to work.

Oh, I bet. It's a great walk. It's also a great way to just grind through everything in the morning and burn off some energy. Also, it was, you know, the walk to work became the cold open, which I think was really important. Because, I mean, that's coming later on, but it's not time to maybe go over that one yet. But the cold open for the show is basically me walking to work and people saying, you better be as good as Letterman.

And that was basically what I was, it was very autobiographical. It was heightened and made ridiculous, but it was very true. And very well done. Yeah, I remember when I watch that, it's like, oh, you just believe that's, that's why it was so funny right away

because you know that was what everyone was saying also I'll tell you this I was told in no uncertain terms do not mention Letterman and don't talk about how you're replacing Letterman at the beginning of the show and talk about digging in your heels

Robert and I write this thing where I'm walking it starts with I wake up it says September 13th and people on I think we got real people like John Tesh or whatever to say like well

in entertainment tonight, big day, Conan O'Brien's gonna take over and he better be as good as Letterman and then me walking to work and everyone saying you better be as good as Letterman and I just knew that I needed to play it total cheerful oh horse like you know yeah this horse you better be as good as letterman broca did it and you know and then broca come came in and did this great thing where and i it was important that i just be like you bet like super happy and super cheerful and not breaking at all and then brocakaw said he would, and he was great.

He comes off the elevator and he walks up to me and he goes, Conan, I just want to say welcome to MB. And it's a big deal. Like for Tom, and Tom Brokaw was close with Letterman. So it was a very cool thing that he did this. Yes. He was always great. He's great.

He's a great guy. And he, but he walked up to me and went with that incredible voice, Conan, Tom Brokaw. I just want you to know that, you know, you have my utmost confidence, whatever. Everyone here at NBC is rooting for you. And I say, thanks a lot, Tom. And then he says, but remember, and he screwed up his face and he went, you better be as good as Letterman. And he held up, we told him this note, but he held up a saltine cracker and crushed it and then lets all the pieces fall.

Which is, but that was so our show. I love that that was in there because it's so stupid. And our show was all about gravity, gravitas, and then deflate it with a little piece of stupidity

and he walks off. But also you, you finally get off the street where everyone's saying it to you and you're like, okay, I'm in the building now. I'm away from that. And it's Tom Brokaw. And it's Tom Brokaw. And then the part that was dark, but I think people liked as I go into the dressing room. You're whistling.

And you can't see what I'm doing. And then you realize I'm making a noose. And I get up and I put my head in the noose and I'm just about to hang myself when they say it would have been Hollander. Hollander. No. Conan, you're on.

Yeah, it might have been Hollander. Conan, you're on. And I went, oh. And then I realized there isn't time for me to kill myself. Right, right. And so- Tomorrow maybe.

Yeah, and that's- I remember's I remember I remember like playing that and being backstage and hearing it kill like an audience

really laughing hard and that helped so much to come out I remember I was I kept thinking I have to show this to Ludwin

to Rick Ludwin and it's I know he'd be he'll think it's hilarious right up until the end okay and that i would know that that dark and he'll want to pull back that he and and so we sort of waited as long as we could wait i think it might even i don't think it was the day of the show but it was late when we showed it to him. And I remember him going, he's like laughing. And then he gets to the end and he's like, oh.

And I go, oh. But he didn't like, he went, okay. He didn't say no. No, he went, okay. But he went, oh. I have a really funny, someone,

every now and then someone will find photos. Someone was taking photos that day. Oh, wow. And so we're sitting on Central Park West where the benches are. You know, the stone wall's there

and the park is over the stone wall. And we're waiting for the next shot to be set up because that's how I'm walking down to work. And there's like, you know, photographers from the post following us and everything's just, it was back in the crazy days. Wow.

Everyone's like wondering, what's this guy doing? What's it going to be? And, but I'm sitting there, you're on a cell phone that looks really funny because it looks like you're in the Korean war. It's kind of like an antenna. Yeah. And, and you've also got this curly fro.

I have hair. You got a curly fro and I look 19. Right. And I'm wearing the style at the time was this kind of big show. I'm wearing a jacket, but it's got kind of like padding. Yeah. And then like this, you know, wide tie. It was just a weird transitional time for men's fashion. And my hair is this big floppy thing in front of me. And we're just sitting there and we're making this thing floppy thing in front of me. And we're just sitting there and we're making this thing.

And I was always as anxious as I was and rightfully afraid. And I was always okay when we were making something. And so that's also when we started shooting, getting close to the premiere, we had this idea that we want to do this kind of, cause we were kids of the, of seventies television. Shows used to say, you know, last week on Kojak, and they would show dramatic stuff.

So we decided we wanted to shoot very labor intensive and realistic things last week on Conan O'Brien. And it would be me saying to a woman, I'm sorry, my dear, I'm leaving you and she'd throw champagne in my face and I'm wearing an ascot and it was all shot like Dynasty or-

Oh, it's sets and locations and war job and guns. Really ambitious. Oh, guns and we worked so hard on these things and shots of me laughing maniacally, Andy firing guns, me passionately kissing a woman. And then someone jumps in with a knife, intercut with car explosions, all this kind of stuff. And the whole time we were making those, I was happy.

Because I knew how to play that attitude. I knew how to play, frankly, my dear, I have to, you know, that soap opera kind of bullshit. And pre-tapes, you have all that control over it. Pre-tapes, we have control and we were shooting them. And God, when we were doing that or shooting the cold open, we worked our asses off. We were busy. And we did a ton of preparation.

Yeah, no, no, we were busy. I mean, it was crazy. I mean, even when, we were busy. I mean, it was crazy. I mean, even after we went on the air, it was crazy. We were there till midnight every day. Oh, we were never left. Well, once the show started. Right. It's just this.

Well, that's a whole other thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I was wondering leading up, how much were you banking comedy? Or were you able to? We were banking as much as we could. And I will say, we banked as, given those parameters, we banked as an impressive amount. And not really knowing what type of thing, you know, like things were too long. Things were, you know, like we didn't really, until you're on the air and you're doing it, as you guys know, you don't really know what you're doing.

Also, yeah. And we were testing things out. Like, we tested out Clutch Cargo, which was an idea that Clutch Cargo was a terrible cartoon from the 60s, early 60s, where they couldn't even afford animation. They would just draw the people, and then they would burn their real mouths in. And it was a guy- So real lips. Real lips. And his name was Clutch Cargo. And he was like, all right, we better get going.

And literally the head would slide out and you'd hear like footsteps. Terrible. And so we thought it'd be really funny. And we came up with some, we were testing out the Clutch Cargos. We had a lot of ideas. Year 2000 was something that Robert,

it was a Robert idea that we had done in Chicago. The live show there. The live show there a couple of years earlier in the summer of 88. And there was a writer's strike. And so we went to Chicago and made this did this show and it was

people making predictions about what was then the distant future in the year 2000 you know pigeons will be extinct and bald eagles

will darken the skies which is weird you know like like Jack Handy small thoughts small thoughts so we knew we were going to do that we'll do it with flashlights we weird, you know, like Jack Handy small thoughts.

So we knew we were going to do that. We'll do it with flashlights. We'll do, you know, we had all these, we had a lot of ideas and we were shooting a lot of content. We shot a really funny piece where, I mean, Bob Costas did a great thing for us where. Yeah, that was funny. We showed a clip of him. Yeah, because he was doing later with Bob Costas and he agreed to do a shoot a thing where he's interviewing the old tree in Wizard of Oz

that has the old apple tree that ends up throwing apples. He did a good job. And he was, I mean, there's a guy with great comedy. Bob Costas has great comedy chops. He was really funny. And along with Brokaw, to get these, these guys are established. Comedy Chops. He was really funny. And along with Brokaw, to get these, these guys are established.

I'm, I'm the, I'm the person who really shouldn't be there. And they were also established and they were, they were fantastic. Yeah, they were very helpful. Yeah.

Brokaw, sorry, go ahead. Oh, we shot something. We had an idea and we started to bring in audiences for test shows.

And I remember that was fascinating because people were coming in just basically to see they weren't told what they were going to see and i remembered uh i did them in 8h i think a bunch of them really no we did those weren't the test show test shows those were like pre-test those pre-test test shows where they set me up in 8h and i was literally interviewing like anybody would grab someone who was in the corner. Right. And that was just for you to practice.

I think Robert was in like, that's where you first played around with Andy being a sidekick. Yes. Ah, yeah. And I remember, so we were there and those weren't really, those were just kind of for us, but then we brought it, we started bringing in audiences and i want to say we did eight of them probably might have done four and four cheryl crow did one of them cheryl crow did one and she was a complete i mean talk about me being an unknown i said like and who's the musical guest and they said well she's an elementary school teacher but she's got an album coming out because she's been, you know She was a backup singer She was a backup singer

but I think she also had a gig teaching or something and she's, you know, it was I mean, she's a bank teller or she's a blacksmith and I remember thinking oh, she's beautiful and really, she sounds good Yeah

She's got something Yeah and so she did a test show and we were getting the craziest people to do the test shows. It was Mickey Rooney did a test show. Grandpa Al Lewis from the Munsters did a test show. And he's the first person we try to clutch cargo out on. Yeah.

And so we thought it'd be fun to have Herman drop down. Right. And say like, oh grandpa right and we didn't tell him about this and what we didn't know or we hadn't really thought it through um we I think we mentioned to him something like this would happen he's like fine fine kid fine so Fred Gwynn who played Herman Munster had died like that summer and literally two months before and so the screen comes

Al Lewis is talking and he's got his big cigar and the screen comes down and we got someone you want to talk to and we just thought it would be about you talking to Herman and he went the character and he'd be like oh Herman you idiot the screen comes down and go, we got someone you want to talk to. And we just thought it would be about you talking to Herman. We weren't. And he went, the character,

the character. And that he'd be like, Oh, Herman, you idiot. And they'd go back and forth. It'd be a lot of fun. He starts immediately going, what are you doing here?

You're dead. You're dead. I saw you in your box. You're dead. And then he said something to this day, the audience just gets quiet. And he goes, who'd you make it with last night?

A wyme? And I'm like, Annie's been, who'd you make it with last night? A wyme? And then the guy doing Herman Munster's like, Grandpa, Grandpa, Grandpa, how can you talk if you're deaf? You had cancer.

You know, it was just. The first rule of improv. Yeah, first rule of improv is call out deaf. So the thing goes up and oh my God. So there were, I remember the very. We're going to tinker with that. The very first test show went really well. And I remember being elated thinking thinking, this isn't so hard.

And then I think the second test show was not good at all. That sounds classic. And then the third test show was rough. And it was a lot of huddling, a lot of trying to fix things. And then eventually, it's like, oh, it's tomorrow. Wow. Yeah. And no one saw the cold open until the night of the show.

I don't think so. I don't think we showed anybody the cold open, which actually became kind of a tradition because we pride ourselves on our cold opens and we never showed them. All those years, all those cold opens when I would travel shows, when I would do the Emmys, when I would, you know, we never showed any of that stuff

to people. We always wanted to wait. You didn't even want to show them in rehearsal. No. Like, ooh. No, like, don't waste, if there's any magic,

if there's any magic in it, if there's any gold dust on that thing, just let it all come off. And if you really like it, then it's like, yeah, we don't need to test this we would test it internally sure yeah people like the writers watch them or you'd call in some yeah

i'd call in paula davis i'd call in different people and we'd yeah and then also i should bring i mentioned like there were people that were hired that summer that are still with us. So I remember one of the first people that we hired was Jeff came in and told me, it was just total coincidence, but he said, I hired Paula Davis to be the booker. And I thought, wait a minute, I know Paula because Paula had worked at Saturday Night Live when I was there.

And I remember- She was like a teenager, I think. I remember walking in, meeting Paula in 1988 and chatting with her and thinking, she reminds me of my sister, Kate. She's really funny. She's got something. She was like quick.

And she and I were going back and forth. And I was like, I like that Paula Davis. And then, you know, we see each other at SNL, but then I move on. I go on to other things, you know, and then now I'm hearing Paula Davis. And I thought, that's great. Oh, good, Jeff. I like Paula Davis. And then you came in and saw me like maybe just a couple of days later and said, I got us a, I got us a segment producer.

And I said, who's that? And you said, his name's Frank Smiley. And I thought, wait a minute. I know Frank Smiley. Total coincidence. I had been at a party when I was on The Simpsons in LA and it was this big party. And I got introduced to this guy

who was very memorable named Frank Smiley. And I was kind of doing shtick with him just as a Simpsons writer and a guy who does shtick 24 seven. I remembered him kind of not like laughing, but not giving it up all the way. And then kind of giving me like a, yeah, you're not bad kid, you're not bad.

And I was, and so you told me you hired Frank Smiley and literally I just know him as a guy I met a year before at a mid-Hollywood party where there was a keg, you know, like some dumpy party. And so things started to congeal. Frank Smiley still with us here today. Yeah. Paula Davis still booking. I mean, it's 30 years later and I can't shake these people.

Jeff's still here. Max and Jake Mays hangs out. I'm a bad cold. Yeah. You were the original COVID. There's nothing I could do. And then there's a couple of people who've been there almost that long. I don't know who else is in there.

Jim Pitt was hired that summer to do music and he still works with us on the podcast radio channel. Anytime I'm talking to anybody in music or doing any of that stuff, that's Jim Pitt. And he was just with me in New York when I interviewed Paul McCartney for the podcast. And I think, oh, we've been doing this for 30 years. It's crazy. It's not late night anymore, but it's all the same to me at this point. Right.

So anyway, this gets us to, that might be a good place to stop. This might be a place that like the test shows, all the madness we haven't had our first airing yet yeah the first airing

hasn't happened yet yeah and maybe we save that for the sure next time this is a good place to cut it

but I will say there was some crazy shit that happened there was a reporter I think from USA Today who snuck in yep and that's not cool like you're not supposed to do that I wanted to make a pie chart about you yeah there was a reporter, I think, from USA Today who snuck in. Yep.

And that's not cool. Like, you're not supposed to do that. I wanted to make a pie chart about you. Yeah, and it wasn't a nice pie chart. So this guy came in and looked at a test show. Oh, yes. And wrote a review. And I want to say his name is something Frazier. Huh.

Yes. I think he was an AP or he was. He was either AP or might not be USA Today there was a lot of apologies that came after that but you gotta remember there was a different time because it was a time

when a newspaper critic could like could like meant something great amount of power it meant something it really

I mean today you wouldn't think that much about it your feelings would get hurt but this guy snuck in you know, you don't do that for Broadway shows

until they invite the critics. And this person came and wrote a review saying, you know, I hate this. They mentioned worms. No, but he didn't see that one,

but he said, Frasier Moore. Frasier Moore, yeah. And he went after Andy in a way that was not cool. Frazier Moore Frazier Moore yeah and he went after Andy oh boy in a way that was not yeah

cool and I think I mean Andy could tell you this but I think later on he reached out to Andy to go like hey buddy

and Andy was like uh no I don't think so man that was that was not good but the the test shows were

horrifying and then this gets us right up to, I think we took the Friday off. I want to say we took the Friday off. We had a Saturday and Sunday. And I was, it's so funny because I was just back in New York and I always pass the old haunts. And I walked right past where I lived. And I remember my friend who I met in college, I'm really tight with Eric Reif.

He hung out with me on the Sunday and we like took a football and just tossed a football back and forth in the park just so I wouldn't be alone and I could unwind. And then I remember us walking back and it's Sunday. So the show is going to be the next day. And I'm walking up to my apartment across the street from Tavern on the Green and run right into Eric Mink,

who was the New York Post- TV guy. TV guy. And not a bad guy or anything, but just it's the New York Post, which can be at the time, can be real tough. And I saw him and he just looked at me and he said,

are you ready for tomorrow? Like, here I am just trying to, and I have my football. And I went, yep, I think we're ready. Yep, I think we're ready. And he was like, well, good luck to you then and kept moving. And I thought, well, there goes my,

there was my fun night out. Yeah. But I will say say that he's just lying in wait for it i don't know if this is a just to get you up to that day i read a book slept like a baby that night wow no idea well this is what i remember we were that first, we were loaded for bear. And to this day, you can look at that first show, but there's the cold open. We had so much prepackaged comedy. We also had so many great funny ideas. John Goodman. A lot of guests.

George Wendt, Drew Barrymore. Tony Randall. Tony Randall. And he and I were going to sing Edelweiss and there were going to be Nazis in the audience crying and nuns. And I mean, it was, we just put everything into that

to make sure that that first show was fantastic. So I remembered, I just wanted to, there was a famous convict who petitioned. He's like, I don't want to do life in prison. Gary Gilmore in the 1970s. He said, I just want to be executed. And so they finally, the Supreme Court, because they weren't doing any executions anymore, finally said, okay, you can die by firing squad in Utah. And so I'm going somewhere worth this. There's this moment for a while where Gary Gilmore got

to talk to his family and everything. And I never forgot this. He, um, he just looked at them at one point and said, let's do this and got up and went out and sat down in a chair and got shot and killed. And I remember having, this is a horrible comparison, but I remember thinking, let's do this. Like if I'm going to go out, it's time to find out. It's time to find out because I can't live like this anymore. It's been months, months of who is this guy? What's it going to be?

I think we were blessed by the short amount of time in a way. Right. You would fill as much time. Yeah, exactly. It would have been worse. We would have built it in the round. We would have called the space. Yeah, exactly. No, exactly. It would have been worse. We would have built it in the round. We would have called it night and night.

That's right. That's right. The Globe Theater. The cat would have had Andy's part. You know, no, I think that is exactly right. We didn't have enough time, which is as it should be. Yeah. And so-

Which is what these shows are. Those shows are. Right. It continued once it started. Next time we we talk I guess we'll go from we'll start at the first show September 13th

1993 yeah wow nighty night yes nighty night nicely done beautiful

talk to you in a year you got us out now I want to see that show well thanks to Conan and Jeff for joining us. I mean, I feel like we were kind of joining them on that ride. Yes. I almost started to talk at one point,

and Conan was just like looking at me like, you're going to interrupt this? I'm like, all right, just go. Yeah, I thought I got some good uh-huhs in there. Some of my best uh-huhs. It is a great story, though. It is. Yeah. Well, I have no, I, it is. Yeah.

Well, I don't think that exists anywhere else. It's, no, it's like, it's an oral history that's being, I love it. Cataloged.

It's great. Only here on Inside Conan. That's right. And, again, with our rewatching season coming, we can get up to the next chapter of Conan and Jeff. That's right.

Maybe we'll get to October of next chapter of conan that's right maybe we'll get to october of 1993 that is my dream i'm telling you we're in business for hundreds of years as long as we keep them talking and we keep them alive yes lots of electrolytes yeah um well hey and uh we're still taking lister questions for hopefully a next season. So if you have a question for us, give us a call or just, you know, you could call and just compliment us too. That'd be great. 323-209-1079 or email us at insideconanpod at gmail.com. And if you like the show, you can support us by rating Inside Conan an important Hollywood podcast

on iTunes and leave us a review and so this is farewell for now farewell but I'll see you soon yeah we'll see you soon I'll see you soon

yes and to everybody still with us we love you we love you Inside Conan an important Hollywood podcast is hosted by Mike Sweeney and me Jesse Gaskell We love you. Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast,

is hosted by Mike Sweeney and me, Jesse Gaskell. Our producer is Lisa Burr. Team Coco's executive producers are Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao. Engineered and mixed by Joanna Samuel. Our talent bookers are Gina Batista and Paula Davis with assistance from Maddie Ogden. Thanks to Jimmy Vivino for our theme music and interstitials. You can rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts. And of course, please subscribe and tell a friend to listen to Inside Conan or an enemy

on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, or whatever platform you like best. I'm not going to tell you what to do.