Inside Conan: An Important Hollywood Podcast - Director Liz Plonka Revisits the Chaos of Late Night

Episode Date: November 26, 2021

Late Night director Liz Plonka joins writers Mike Sweeney and Jessie Gaskell to discuss her start in late night television, the time a live cow was lost in 30 Rock, filming an episode on a boat, and directing Norm Macdonald’s final comedy special.Got a question for Inside Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone] and e-mail us at [e-mail]

And now, it's time for Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. Hey, welcome to Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. I'm Mike Sweeney. I am Jessie Gaskell, and we are Conan writers, longtime Conan writers. Yes. And we're still technically working for the company. Right. Even though we're not writing anything. It's a behind the scenes. Honestly, we're like the GI doctors of Conan, because we're taking you- Inside. Conan. And the reason I said that is because I know you had a colonoscopy, Sweeney

No, I'm having it Okay, I'm sorry, that's right I'm going to have it tomorrow Oh yeah, you're getting like a pre-Thanksgiving colonoscopy Which is so brilliant You just get cleaned out So you can fill it back up Exactly

I do it every year Ahead of Thanksgiving Yeah, so you're actually Did you start the procedure? Back up. Exactly. I do it every year ahead of Thanksgiving. Yeah. So you're actually, did you start the procedure? No, I haven't started that. I wouldn't dare do that before we recorded this. I thought you might want an excuse to step away.

Well, I'm always looking for that. If I knew that, I'm going to start scheduling these weekly. Yeah. So I'll get that out of the way tomorrow. It's not a pleasant thing, but I guess it's important to get done. Well, you get drugged, so it's kind of... That's true. Yeah, it's just... Although, this doctor is kind of

a big burly guy, and he kind of looks like a German butcher from the 19th century or something. I just prefer someone a little more genteel in appearance for this procedure. I had a colonoscopy one time and my doctor was young, like just a little bit older than me and wore Converse, which also was unsettling. That is a little...

Doogie Howser. Doogie, it is Doogie Howser-ish. I know. And it was weird because honestly, there was a little bit of romantic chemistry between us. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Well, that happens to you with all your healthcare providers.

It does. And I swear it's not one-sided. And actually, we matched on a dating app years later. Wait, is that true? That's true. Is that true? Yeah, it's true. Well, that's fantastic.

And I reached out to him and I said, do you remember me from when you gave me my colonoscopy? Perhaps this picture will help. And then he unmatched me. Oh, my God. I might have crossed a line. I don he unmatched me. Oh my God. I might've crossed a line. I don't picture young people giving colonoscopy. I know, it's an old person's game.

Yes. How much later did you run into him on a dating app? It was like maybe five years. Holy cow. Yeah, I mean, it really, there was a brief moment where I was like, all right, this is it. This is is our meet cute we're gonna be telling this story to our grandchildren wow and telling it on the moth probably yes it's a total moth story total moth story which is why i was really disappointed it didn't happen when you didn't hear back from him did you

reach out maybe there's other cute doctors at his practice. Oh, I should have. Or I could have just gone to that doctor review site. I could have tried some different angles. Oh, right. How dare you unmatch me? He sounds like a jerk. Yeah.

Well, maybe I'll match with the burly man who's going to do me tomorrow. I mean, I'm almost a little jealous of your pre-Thanksgiving ritual. Match with the burly man who's going to do me tomorrow down the line. I mean, I'm almost a little jealous of your pre-Thanksgiving ritual. I think you're going to have a really guilt-free meal after that. Yeah. We're not having turkey this year. Oh, you're not? No, we're having a pork porchetta.

Oh, yum. Yeah, my wife Cynthia is like, I'm sick of turkey. Great. Well, you know what? I don't like turkey. And I just read there was a study. No, no. Yeah. My wife Cynthia is like, I'm sick of turkey. Well, you know what? I don't like turkey. And I just read there was a study. No, no one does. And there was a study of where it was like people ranked their favorite meats to have for Thanksgiving. And turkey didn't even make the list.

It was ham. Yeah. Chicken. Chicken. Fish. What? What people would prefer to eat on Thanksgiving. That's what it was. Oh, okay. I was going to say. Yeah. Chicken. Chicken? Fish. What? What people would prefer to eat on Thanksgiving. That's what it was.

Oh, okay. I was going to say. Yeah. So turkey wasn't even on the board. Oh, man. Losing out to fish is really insulting. Yeah. I know.

Well, I think we're all warmed up for the show. We really are. We have a great guest tonight. We really do. I'm saying great guest tonight. We really do. I'm saying tonight. This comes out during the day, but... This one you can only hear at night. It's inside Conan After Dark.

Yes. Yeah, no, we're talking to the longtime director of Late Night with Conan O'Brien. Her name is Liz Plonka. Yes, and she's, I think, kind of one of the pioneering women of directing music variety talk shows. Yeah.

There are very few. I mean, it might just be Liz, honestly. Well, another big one was Beth McCarthy Miller, who was directing Saturday Night Live at the time. Oh, okay, good. And she worked at Late Night from 1995 to 2002. Yep. And was a big part of kind of developing the pace and the tone of the comedy there. You know, a lot of the comedy back then was so ambitious. They were crazy, crazy days.

And she was a cool cucumber through all of it. Oh, the coolest. Oh boy, is she cool. You will hear how cool she is. Unflappable is the word. So here's Liz Plonka. Well, I'm very excited about today's guest. She had what I would argue is the most challenging, hardest, behind-the-scenes job in all of late-night television.

And she did it on Late Night with Conan O'Brien for seven years directing. Yes. Incredibly hard job. And she was a master at it. And it's a pleasure to have her on the show to talk about those years and beyond. Please say hello to Liz Plonka. Hi, Liz. Hi.

Hi, Liz. Hi. Happy to be here. Oh, good. That's a relief. We need your help directing this podcast any thoughts we talk over each other a lot that's my fault i think that's part of your charm the two of you and also directors have to be diplomats yes they do yes they do. a production secretary back in the day and you know just one thing led to another and there came the path of heading either in the producing direct direction or the directing

direction and so I went towards directing so I was an AD for a really long time what's a really long time 10 years oh yeah oh wow so I was associate director for a lot of um live variety shows and stuff like that and I just got to a point where I was like, all right, I think it's time to take this leap and just started doing it. And for some reason, my career trajectory just ended up in comedy. I just kept doing a lot of... Kept trying to get out of it. Actually, it was great because, you know, who gets to get up in the morning and laugh all day long? But, you know, it was great.

So, you know, I did. I don't know if this is kind of a blast from everyone's past. Clarissa Clarissa explains it all. I did. Oh, yeah. Did that show for I was a fan. Yeah, that was really fun and again did a lot of

some stand up shows some traveling stand up shows for HBO and Fox and all that and then I got a call from Jeff Ross one day out of the blue executive producer for Conan

yes and he said you want to come and do the show One day. Wow. Out of the blue. Executive producer for Conan. Yes. And he said, you want to come and do the show? That was a good Jeff. That is a deadly accurate Jeff. He said, I wouldn't do it. I'd advise you against it. And I said, for how long? Because, you know, most of my gigs were like, you know, a month or 13 weeks at the most. Right.

Or Clarissa, the longest, was, you know, on and off for two years. But, you know, a month or 13 weeks at the most. Clarissa, the longest was, you know, on and off for two years. But, you know, again, episodic. So it wasn't really. Right. I said, how long? And he said, well, as long as it's on the air. Forever. Forever.

Right. And I said, sure, why not? I was living in L.A. at the time and was ready for a change and made the move to New York. Oh, wow. In 95. Wow. Wow.

And were you familiar with the show? I mean, did you watch it at all? No. No. That's why you said yes. No, no. Actually, it was just like one of those. I was on the road a lot when I was doing comedy, directing, other stuff.

And so I didn't really have an opportunity to watch late-night TV. It was either too late or, you know, or I was shooting one or the other. Right. I asked if I could get episodes, either five episodes or ten episodes, I can't remember, of the worst shows that they'd done so far and ten of the best that they've done so far. Oh, I'd love to hear who chose that. Yeah, no kidding, right?

Yeah. Were they like, we wish we had some bad ones to send? Or was it the opposite? We wish we had some good ones to send. I got a pile of 20 bad ones. Yeah. That's a really, that's a great question to ask. I wouldn't need.

So did you get scared when you watched? Yeah, sure. Are you kidding? It was a different kind of fear, though. It wasn't fear like, can I do this? It was fear like, oh, my God, what am I getting myself into? Right. And it was kind of like going home i'm from originally

from just outside manhattan so um you know you're allowed to say new jersey new jersey just outside my home state um maybe you can explain for us a little more what a director on a late night show is doing because you're in a you're in a separate booth and so you're not in the studio but you're communicating with all the cameras in the studio but it's i mean if you want to talk about like a day at conan sort of thing sure yeah the writers would leave scripts for us from the night before whatever bits were going to go into the show that day. Hopefully they left the script. Yes, that's true, Sweeney. I don't know why you'd emphasize my name.

But anyway, go ahead. So between myself and Tracy King, we would sort of wrangle all the moving parts that needed to happen. And we would sit down and I would block it out on paper and just sort of know which the best, theoretically, the best way to shoot it. So if there was a bit that was going to happen over in the performance area, we'd know we'd have to move all the cameras

over to that area and be shooting the bit while staying on and having another camera on Conan. And the performance area is over by the persinium that's where the area where conan would come out and do the monologue and where the bands would play as well persinium live bands right sounds like a body part either word anyway sorry yes yeah so go ahead so I would block it out and then we would, well, we would have our morning meeting. We would discuss it and then we would go downstairs and block it and figure it all out with the,

with, with the writers, myself, the writers and Tracy again, and obviously the cameras. And blocking it out is literally where the camera is going to be and where the actor or whatever performer, or in our case,

live animal would, would be positioned. Right. Right. So if there were three people in a particular bit, then I would have to have one camera on one person, one camera on the other person, another camera on a,

a big wide master shot so that you can see the whole room. And obviously a camera wherever Conan would be and then um nine times out of ten I would never have enough cameras because a lot of the sketches were really really involved and ambitious and then so just continuing the day we would have lunch and then we would come back and then at two o'clock Conan would come downstairs and essentially rewrite the entire sketch, which then would involve re-blocking the entire sketch. Then it would be 5.30. Yes. And we would have to shoot it.

Yeah. And there were more than one time, I can tell you, that pages were being brought in act by act. So we would go to commercial and I would get handed the pages for the next script. And I would be furiously marking them in my book to try and get the shots written down so that my AD could tell me what shots we're going to. So we're both scribbling in our books and commercial breaks. And that happened many many times um that happened a lot and back then there was a big like there'd be their rehearsal the way you said it too and it and when changes were made then there was a big lag time to get all those changes into a

script right and this is before before email even. Yeah. Right. Yes. So there were floppy disks. And so you're in the control room waiting for the new. You have to mark up this script. Yeah. And then sometimes the rewrite would take a long time before it even got to the script coordinator.

Well, also in the interim, sometimes while you guys were doing changes, we were doing music. We were rehearsing music right oh wow yeah right so you know at that point we dragged the band sled out and we would i would block the music in the morning um so i would listen on um you know listen to the track and i would get a band plot so i would know where each band member was standing or moving. And I

would block out the cameras based on that. We would probably block out generally a song would probably be anywhere between 30 and 40 shots in the song. So we would rehearse that while script changes were happening and then script changes would fly back in and we would go back to plan A or plan C or whatever it might have been at the moment. Z prime. Wow. Yeah. Wow. That's really stressful.

Yep. And as the director, do you feel, is there pressure on you to kind of keep a cool front for the rest of the team? I think it's important. Yeah. I think it's actually critically important because if you're losing your shit, they're not going to know what to do. You know? Yeah. They're not going to feel secure. They're all looking to important. Yeah. I think it's actually critically important because if you're losing your shit, they're not going to know what to do. You know? Yeah.

And they're not going to feel secure. They're all looking to you. Yeah. Yeah. They're not going to feel secure. There were times I'd walk into the booth before the show and after the insanity you're describing

and you were always as cool as a cucumber and I... Yeah. I was like, do you have a room you go to to yell or you just you just were always so cool she invented cbd no matter how crazy it got yeah it was it was you know what it was very calming it had it affected everybody one thing that amazed me is yes you're in this separate room the control room obviously but you're communicating with all the cameramen through a headset.

And you're also, you know, the sound effects person and the graphics person. Yeah, sound effects and graphics and all that. That, you know, when we would do a simple, what we now would look at as a very simple desk piece like a Those Who Mated or any one of those, you know, graphic pieces where there were images. Right. If we had to change anything, it would involve redoing the entire stack. So if picture. The order of the pictures. The order of the pictures, the order of the pictures. Yeah. So if picture one went to number seven, that would mean to start over, just throw the whole thing up in the air and start over again.

Whereas now you can just punch a button and one becomes seven in two seconds, you know, or less. So that was always challenging too. Also back then I, there were so many drags on the system, like editing. Everything was still on videotape. Yeah, yeah. So a lot of times you're probably sitting there waiting for tapes to get run up from the edit room. Waiting for tapes to get run up to the edit room. That scene from broadcast news resonated in all our heads many times. That happened a lot.

There was a lot of machine failure things would go down a lot are you talking about in the control room like the equipment in the control room the equipment in the control room the like graphics machines would go down the audio console would go down the video control things would always go down tape machines would crash and burn i mean stuff was crashing and burning all the time i'd'd seen examples, not with you, but where a director, like I'd be in the control room and it'd be like, you know, something was happening and he'd go, camera five, camera five, you know, shoot, you know, the runaway dog or whatever. And the camera wouldn't move. And it was, I think the cameraman had just zoned out or was.

Well, sometimes they just are terror stricken. Oh, okay. Some of these freelance people, and I love them all, they're wonderful, but they work so many shows and they get assigned so many different camera numbers that if you say to them, camera five, they may not know you're talking about them. Oh. Yeah. So I make it a personal point to call them by name you know even if there's three daves on my camera wall it's right you know it's jg yeah yeah right wow break for the runaway dog go get them you know i mean i guess camera that personnel changes a lot but i would

think ideally you'd love camera people who almost are like in sync with the way you're thinking. So they take a little initiative or they're kind of on it. I always like to work and I always enjoy a collaborative effort and make sure that we're all, because if you're not working as a team, it just doesn't work. It just does not work. So I think that's one of the most important things. If they have ideas or suggestions, I have one set of eyes. And if someone else sees something that they go, oh, what about this? This could be funny. Or what about this? This might work better as a shot. I'm always in for that. It's the greatest.

Yeah. Speaking of one set of eyes, I would always be amazed. I don't know how you would keep track of all, like, on the wall in front of you. There'd be seven different camera shots. Well, there'd be five cameras because that was all I ever was allowed to have on that show. You wanted more. I would want less. I always wanted more because I just couldn't, never felt like I could get the coverage less i always wanted more because i wow i just couldn't never felt like

i could get the coverage that i always wanted and then there was the time i don't know if you remember this sweeney when we got budget cuts we had budget cuts and they actually cut one of my camera operators so oh wow i had five cameras but four people to run them so they're like we can teach a dog to run a camera i have this poor guy running from one camera to the next. I know. I don't remember that. Oh yeah. That was really,

that was crazy. How was that compared to doing sitcoms? I mean, how many cameras did you get there? Sitcoms, that you should, they're really not that many. They're usually four.

Okay. Some four, usually four or five at the most on sitcoms but um they're not moving around as much you know right and they also break between scenes and they you know and reset yeah the whole company moves to the next set or whatever and there's a little breather in there this is just you know you hit the ground running and that's it. Right. I was just thinking at the time that Tommy Blacha. One of the writers. Tommy Blacha.

I don't know how this happened, but we used to have the band on a band sled. And there was a piano out on the band sled. And it was behind the curtain. Conan would come through the curtain. He would do his monologue. Right. Then he would cross over to home base and sit and and do his bit right well we open the curtains cone comes out and tommy is sitting at the piano in the dark it was kind of it was dark and in shadow but you

could see him yeah we could never figure out how he got out there Or why he was out there What was he doing? I don't know He was playing Tom Waits, I think, in a sketch Oh, right Right? And so he was sitting there with like a pork pie hat Getting into character

He was dressed as Tom Waits after a bender at this piano Yeah, but he knew not to move I mean, I think he was terrified Because he was literally right behind Conan during the entire monologue. That is so funny. What did you think of Conan when you first met him and what was your relationship with him like? We had a fine relationship. You know, he would come in my office, flop down on the sofa and we would just yak. Yeah, that means he likes you. Yeah, yeah. He was challenging on set, no doubt about it.

I know he was, look, like I said, it was the very beginning. It was May of 95 when I joined. Right. Right after I joined, three days later, we went and did the boat show. Were you there for that, sweetie? I was. I had started in February. So Conan did the boat show. Were you there for that, sweetie? I was. I had started in February. So Conan did the whole show on the Circle Line,

which is a boat that goes around Manhattan. Wow. Yeah. So I think I was there for maybe three days, maybe four days at the most at that point. And we were out doing a remote on the boat. But Conan was receptive because he was such a newbie. You know, he didn't really know.

He didn't know what he was doing, honestly. So he was trying to figure it out as he was going. He was learning hosting on the clock. Exactly, on the fly. On the clock, yeah. Well, yeah, because by the time I got there, it seemed like Conan was, I mean, he was so accustomed Cause by the time I got there, it seemed like Conan was, I mean, he was so accustomed to what the director would be doing and what the shots

were that he, he was even sometimes calling shots from, you know, from his position. It was like, when did you get that? What year? 2013.

Yeah. Yeah. He was, uh, interesting. It was an interesting for me because i obviously always had a camera on him right so i could see every nuance every twitch every every eye right the vein under his eyes start to bulge yeah that but i could also in time i could tell when he was going to do something oh

interesting you know i would just be sitting there and watching him. And I would say, he's not liking where this is going. He's going to jump on the desk. He's going to bolt. Yeah. Or there were a couple of times where I've said, he's going to go to the audience. Guys, stand by to swing because he's going to go. And sure enough, he jumps up and runs to the audience.

And, you know, so that was, that took quite a while because he needed to find himself in that role first. So, you know, it took a little longer for me. Yeah, it was evolution, but it just took a little longer for me. Yeah, it was evolution, but it just took a little time to get to know his facial idiosyncrasies. That's so interesting. Yeah, watching his face to know when he's about to... To do something or say something. Cause a commotion.

Yeah, cause a commotion. Yeah. Yeah. Cause a commotion. Yeah. You could tell if he wasn't, A, enjoying a comedy bit he was trapped in. The worst was when you knew he hated it and there were like six more minutes left to it. It's like, oh. Right. Or a guest. Or I was going to say, or be a guest where, yeah, he's just. He just wants to crawl under his desk and i

know yeah and but the camera's on like at least andy andy's talked about like i don't like i hate when they're on but he you know he can literally just kind of zone out on the couch and not worry about yeah being stuck on camera during the whole yeah no i just i remember conan getting up and leaving the set a couple times during after uh particularly um unhappy six minutes with a guest that did not go the way that he was hoping it would go yeah and gratefully he would leave his mic on in his dressing room i hope you have all those recordings. That's great. Come in very handy. The commercial break, I remember walking up to the desk after a comedy piece.

And if it was, you know, if it barely skimmed the trees, you know, it's going up going, hey, boss, how's it going? And you just glare. Yeah. It sounds like there were nights when it was really a scramble to get the show going. And you just glare. It sounds like there were nights when it was really a scramble. To get the show going, did you ever have to hold the show or stretch during commercial breaks because something

was changing? Yes, to both of those things. We wouldn't hold more than 10 minutes at the most. And a commercial break, it may be another minute or so. It would be literally, are you ready? I need a minute. Just give me a minute., it may be like another minute or so. It would be like literally, are you ready? I need a minute. Just give me a minute.

Yeah. So it was never so crazy. I shouldn't say never because I probably blocked those. But I don't recall it being so bad that we had to completely stop down. No. I mean, Jeff Ross conan were pretty maniacal about starting the show on time yeah wanting to yeah and keeping the commercial breaks super short yeah and conan especially was obsessed with basically to him it was like a live theater show

so the idea of even though technically you could like, you know, you could add an extra three minutes to a commercial break. He didn't like that because he thought the energy would. I totally agreed with him on that. I think it sucks the life out of the room and the audience dies. And yeah, there was a great band to entertain them, but I just,

you know, people know something's up, you know? Yeah, that's true. I just, you know, people know something's up, you know? Yeah, that's true. There's just a sense. Uh-huh. Something's awry.

People are running around screaming while the band's playing. Max is smiling. Well, my memory is the things that would always make the show start late were usually clutch cargos, which were the... Oh, you just dipped your head down. Yeah. Which were the talking... We got a reaction. We'd have stills of famous people and then the lips, we'd have live lips moving. And those scripts would come in long and they'd get

rewritten a lot and it would take i remember sitting in you know conan's dressing room at 5 10 still changes being written on the margins and in pen and then they still had to get finished and sent to you so that those are the times i remember starting a few minutes late clutch cargos were tough it would go down to the wire it would go down to the wire yeah yeah it was exciting and the desk drives were a challenge as well yeah desk drives were where conan and andy would sit behind the desk and we'd green screen behind them background footage that made them look initially like they drove out of the studio. And then once they're in New York, it'd be like,

Oh, it's Christmas. Let's go to Saks or let's go see the tree. Those rehearsals. I remember being the hardest. Yeah. I agree. Those were,

cause those would come in as in, uh, as multiple tape rolls. Right. So in a, in a, uh, a desk drive,

sometimes there might be 10 or 12 tape rolls with in, in internally. And again, not EBS. It was tape. It was tape. Right. And if you weren't cute in the exact correct spot, you know,

and they were, we were cross rolling. So we had to crossroll from one machine to the other based on the timing of the jokes or whatever so my ad maureen would be counting down the end of the tape to the very last frame of the tape and the bit is still going on because everybody's laughing so hard and we can't cross roll to the next one because it's a new scene and we don't want to bust the joke so she's five four three two and we're like ah freeze it freeze it just put a freeze frame on it just yeah and then finally cross roll to the next one and some of

them were so incredibly short that you know that might be like uh we're just gonna go drive down here for a second and then cross roll to the next one. And then we're just going to go here for a few seconds. So, you know, someone's back there madly going from machine to machine to machine to machine. And then there was the factor of props that was involved. Right. Where, you know, Steve Hollander, our stage manager,

is, you know, handing in stuff, our stage manager, is, you know, handing in stuff or Oldie Olsen is crossing in or, you know, some other crazy stuff is happening. Things are getting thrown at people. And, you know, it's all this cueing and sound effects that go with it. And sometimes it was really funny if it didn't work, you know, obviously. Right. sometimes it was really funny if it didn't work you know obviously right it was like if it if it got busted it was like okay right conan will take it and make it funny in some way so right but those were really challenging for us um back there in the booth yeah those the you're right there were all the there were actors and interacted with them at the desk and and all these yeah like they drive through you know a toll booth yeah the arm gate would break and

that would have to be put in front of the desk and then they'd walk it backwards to break and it had to be in sync with the video it was a nightmare wow yeah it was challenging let's never discuss it again because if it's not perfect people will think the desk isn't really out there they're still in the studio i no one believes me i'm telling you that's another funny thing i think i mentioned this um to you sweeney earlier that you know people when you you know i would say i work on on connor i love that show and they're like wow wow you you must really not get any sleep you know you stay up late and i'm like no we shoot at 5 30 and do this you rehearse that show uh no no yeah that's like that show has writers

exactly a lot of people uh would always ask con Conan in disbelief about rehearsing. Yeah, we started putting rehearsal videos online. Yeah. Oh, my God. I wish we had some of the rehearsal videos from back then. From back then. Oh, boy. Oh, boy.

Were there favorite bits that you really liked working on, Liz? Or, I mean, recurring comedy that you would get excited about? I liked when we did stuff in the audience a lot because I really just dug seeing the reactions of the people around them and really believing that Amy Poehler was Andy's little sister, you know, or whatever. And, you know, and then her screaming down the stairs

and knocking Andy off his chair. And just, you know, those were fun and just bits that went from one part of the audience to another part of the audience to another part of the audience. Those, those were really fun. Yeah. There were,

there were a ton of people interrupting Conan from anywhere. But yeah, no, the writers were honestly really fun and creative and they all had their own sort of niche ideas of you know different different sketches michael gordon has had his own head brian rich had his own you know they they provided this so you kind of after a while you got to expect where they were going to go with things you know so like you like you almost knew what they were looking for yeah yeah when you when you get a script when you get a script yeah i i think that was a cool part of

the early show is what you just brought up is each writer almost had a unique voice and so i think it lent to a lot of the sense of variety in the comedy on the show. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. And also the,

the performance aspect of the writers too, which was really fun. Like McCann and, um, Brian McCann. Oh my God. Brian Stack. Stack.

Yeah. The crazy stuff that he, when he would write and act in. Um, yeah. Yeah. And also they were both, would write and act in. Yeah. Yeah. And also, they were both, they were always money in the bank. I mean, Conan loved them.

A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. I can't even remember anything they were in ever getting cut because they were so funny. Even if, honestly, even if it was tanking, they would retreat, they would manage to pull it out somehow. Right, right, right, right. Yeah, the tanking would become the joke. Right, right right right yeah the tanking would become the joke right or conan playing off the tank right right it was always great yeah just

just kind of that slow burn looking at things totally unraveling yes do you remember any disasters stick out in your mind where it's just like oh my god like to wake up in the middle of night and go oh my god i can't believe that was probably every night sure that's what i wanted you to say yeah i mean did it feel for you like for as for the writers it was always i mean it was such a scramble to get the show up and running and then by the time it was over it was like you're already you've already forgotten about it you're already moving on to the next thing yeah um you know five days a week of you know craziness this looks like you can't store it there's no bite space in your brain for it you know yeah you just got to move on i i remember once the the comedy piece was going to end with the curtain opening and there was a

cow a live cow and uh oh my god the cow the cow that got broke the l the cow that broke the elevator yes wasn't that oh yes i haven't heard this story it was just you know we rehearsed it and the final piece was a cow and jeff ross was always he he just was always like why do you have to have a cow here at 30 which is a valid point it was but anyway the audience would always go like just be stunned that we somehow got livestock into studio 6a except for this night is the big final conan's like throws to it and no one warned us like the stage manager didn't go we don't have the cow he just came over and shook his head. And I'm like, what are you doing? And he's like, we don't have the cow. I'm like, what do you mean you don't have the cow?

How did you lose the cow? But it turned out, which I didn't know. Imagine what it sounded like in the control room right at that moment. Oh, boy, oh, boy. They take the cow out to relieve itself between rehearsal and the show. Yeah. So this doesn't make a mess on the stage they probably do that with guests as well they took the cow down and for some reason when it got back on the elevator it broke the elevator it was so it was heavier it gained weight and so the cow was down in the lobby and we were cowless. Oh, wow. I don't remember what happened after that, though. What happened to the bit?

I don't know. I think we just cut it out and just kind of maybe shot a different. Oh. Like, okay, well, that's it for, you know. Right, right. Cutting it out. Yes. Hilarious livestock.

Wow. That bummer for the cow who told all his friends he was going to be on TV that night. I called my mother. It happens. I told her to tape it. told all his friends he was going to be on tv that night i called my mother it happens i told her to tape it you have worked in a lot of other late night shows yes tonight show lights out with david spade busy tonight joel mckeal show the wayne brady show so is that has that kind of become a niche for you or um that just your preference? No, there aren't that many people who do that kind of television.

Yeah. That can do multi-camera four or five days a week. And so I would always get the call. Right. Yeah. It's a small pool, right? It is a very, very very small pool and it's gotten even smaller yeah wow it's gotten smaller i think so yeah i mean i'm i'm not doing it anymore alan

carton's not doing it anymore there's there's just really aren't that many director after you liz patrick who was had done ellen for all those years is now directing Saturday Night Live. Oh, cool. So she's out of the pool too. So, yeah, there's just not that many people. And other people that used to do it years ago are retired. So, yeah. Wow. There isn't that much of that television that's new anyway. I mean, you know, the ongoing shows have their directors and they stay and it's great.

So, yeah. So when I left, I just, you know, I just freelanced for a while. I just lots of standup. I just remember doing lots of standup and I did mind him and see it for five seasons,

which was lots of fun. Cause that was not as much standup as it was sketch. So that was really a lot of fun doing that. And there weren't bands on that show. So you didn't have to also direct. I loved doing the music. That was fun because it was also kind of a breather, as it were. You know, it wasn't comedy and it wasn't pressured.

It was pretty well thought out, you know, earlier in the week. So it wasn't like necessarily a whole day of thing other than the rehearsal and the shooting of it. But there are rarely, rarely surprises when it came to the music, you know, rarely. I mean, on the Tonight Show it was a little bit, there were more surprises with music because there were a lot more divas coming onto the Tonight Show than there were on Conan. Conan was more about like, you know, cutting edge and, you know, breaking new bands and things like that.

So they were pretty cooperative. Just happy to be there. Exactly. Happy to be there. Even UCB, UCB coming onto that show, the UCB players were, you know, just kind of breaking at that point too. Right. They had all just moved to New York. Yeah.

Yeah. And we used them all the time we used them all the time right they were so great and and look at them now yeah yeah and did you as a woman directing late night tv did you end up mentoring would you attract other young women who were interested in going into directing like would they seek you out to be honest um nobody wanted to sit in that chair i'm no joke yeah they would my ads were happy to stay as ads really they were like i don't want to do that that's too much pressure too hot a seat for me um i'm good wow yeah so they train with you as ads they wanted to be directors, but they didn't want to tackle something like late night.

Yeah. Yeah. And I would say there are women that did go on to become directors, but don't do daily wouldn't don't do daily. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. They were just point blank. Like we've seen it.

Yeah. Don't want it. We've sat a foot away from it yeah yeah you you got this liz i'm okay i'm okay don't worry no one's after your job you're you're trapped i like the hot scene yeah no kidding no it's it's the few times i'd be in the control room during the show my jaw would be on the floor because i just it's i i don't know how you keep track of all the cameras and all the action i don't know how people keep track of it that don't write it down because there are directors who don't write anything down

they just kind of wing it oh wow and i i mean first of all you can't do that with comedy you just can't it's it's you, you have to have a roadmap. Right. If you don't. Yeah. You have to know where you're going. Exactly. At least have a roadmap.

And then if that goes south, at least you started somewhere. But if you don't have that, then you've got nowhere to go. Everything was blocked, always. And it was sort of like a, you know, don't get too sure of anything. Like even though the opening was always the same and the monologue was always on the same mark and generally the same shots, I would still write them down just for my own mental exercise. Just remember this is this and this is what's going to be here. Yeah, it's kind of like having cue cards instead of memorizing exactly script it's like you need to just have that there so your mind doesn't wander too far yeah or just you know start thinking about what's if i if i start thinking

about what's going to happen right after this and i can still keep my place i can still go back and look at it and go okay yes this is where we are right now. So, yeah. What's it like doing, you've done a ton of stand-up specials, too. Including, I just learned this, Norm's last special. Norm MacDonald's last special.

Yes, Norm. Called Hitler's Dog Gossip and Trickery. Classic title. Yeah. Was that your first time working with norm um no i worked with norm on uh last comic standing oh as well he was one of the judges on last comic standing uh one of the seasons that i did i did two two seasons of that eight and nine i think yeah and he was on season nine um norm is norm he's kind of as i'm sure you know is a no holds barred kind of guy

he speaks his mind and yeah um is very candid um but he is one of the gentlest was one of the gentlest kindest people you could ever meet he was a sweetheart yes and you know i mean you know from the show having him on the show so many times too. And so smart. Oh my God, the man was just whip smart. Yes. I've seen so many things now where he seems almost like he's playing. He's on camera in a talk show or during a roast. And it's almost like he's playing with everybody and playing with the format.

He's just above it all almost and looking down and kind of toying with every one and everything yeah involved yep he was he was special yeah no he's great yeah yeah one thing we always like to ask our guests is if you had any particular advice for people starting out i i guess you would tell them, stay out of the hot seat. Stay out of the hot seat. No, this is great because we haven't, I mean, we haven't talked to a director before. So this is... One of the things that I always, I giggled at when I was working on Conan,

because we would have interns that came through there all the time, this semester or that semester, different intern. And invariably, at least once a year, an intern would, they would always come into me at the end of their time. And, you know, I would try and give them a little bit of advice and, you know, say, what are your goals and what do you want to achieve? Well, I really want to direct. Okay. Well, what would you like to do as a director? Would you, well, I just want to be able to direct. Well, what do you think that involves?

I'll figure it out once I get the job. That was kind of the gist of it. You know, I know they're kids and they're excited and all that. But the one piece of advice that I did give someone who was actually serious about it was to study photography as, as, you know, be it still photography or cinematography or whatever, but to have that kind of knowledge of lighting and of camera angles and of camera composition and you know,

lenses and foreshortening and depth of field and all that stuff is really critically important when you're trying to, you know, lenses and foreshortening and depth of field and all that stuff is really critically important when you're trying to, you know, set a shot or, you know, make something look pretty. So that was, you know, it was like learn photography, you know, study. it's not, and shadow was another thing that I would tell people to just go shadow a room and let, if you can get in with the producers and let you into a control room and whatever, and try and learn that way too. That's extremely practical advice. Well, it also seems important to learn that, I mean, terminology and just having competence in that zone is important for inspiring confidence in your team, too. It's like they want to know that you know what you're talking about. Yeah.

And you know their names. Yes. And you know their names. Dave G. Exactly. Well, Liz, thank you so much. Well, you're very welcome. Yeah, it was great to see you again

thanks Liz all right guys thanks thank you Liz for joining us it was great to catch up with Liz again that was cool she looks the same as she looked in 1995 yeah that was unbelievable that pissed me off I know the second she came up I was like like, all right, we're done. I have a note to tell our listeners. Yeah, what's that? Something exciting. Team Coco holiday merch is available now at podswag.com backslash Team Coco.

Excitement. Yeah. And you know what? There's even Inside Conan stuff. There's drinkware, which I think is targeted to our listeners. You know what goes nice with Inside Conan? A lot of alcohol. Yeah. I don't picture a lot of teetotalers

listening. There's also a puzzle, which also goes well with our podcast. Wait, is there a puzzle? Yeah. Like a jigsaw puzzle? Yeah, a jigsaw puzzle. Six pieces? It's a toughie. No, they know people will need something else to do while they're listening.

For the coming lockdown. Oh, we've got a listener question. We do. Yeah. Well, it's a listener comment followed by a question. It's a three-part question. Yes. Hi, Jesse and Sweeney.

I've had the huge pleasure to work on Conan sketches for the last 12 years that he was in LA. I've always had so much fun and super grateful every time I got to work there. I miss you all. I worked on a sketch with Brian Stack in March 2014. We were chickens. I'm the middle chicken. And he was Colonel Sanders.

Sounds exactly right. The sketch kept getting cut in rehearsals and we were called back the following day, and then again, and then again. It finally made it to air on the fifth time. Oh, I think I remember this sketch. Yeah, I think I do, too. My question is, what's the longest a sketch has been pushed but finally made it to air? And do you think it was worth the wait?

Thanks for an always amazing time on the show, Brandon. Oh. Hi, Brandon. That's very nice. Hi, Brandon. Yeah, I remember Brandon. Yes, you were the chicken on the show, Brandon. Oh. Hi, Brandon. That's very nice. Hi, Brandon. Yeah, I remember Brandon. Yes, you were the chicken on the left. The middle chicken.

Oh, shoot. I don't remember Brandon. I thought he was the chicken on the left. Sorry, Brandon. I remember that bit. Yeah. That's a bit where, oh, it's too hard to explain, is making fun of someone in the audience uh with oh yes i think that was it was a the creep in the audience bit a news story about a man who masturbated with a chicken uh-huh and

then it just went off from there and then the director kept cutting to a random person in the audience right right exactly every time conan said something pejorative about this yeah chicken sexer implying that that was he exactly yes well at least brandon was part of a really great sketch that will stand the test of time well and it's a great question. It's a very good question. Because that did happen a lot, that something would get pushed. Oh, yes. For time or because we had too much stuff

or just various reasons. Right. And then sometimes in rehearsal, Conan would be like, yeah, that's good. And then we're like, okay, so should we do it tonight? No, no, no.

Let's hold on to it. Let's save it. Yeah. And if it was something super topical, you knew it would never be seen again. Yeah. But if it was kind of evergreen, it would just stay on the grid.

We always had a grid in the head writer's office with the comedy for the week. And it was just note cards. And so the writer's coordinator, yeah, would just move the index card to the next night yes and then the night after that and then after a couple weeks the card sometimes it would settle down to the bottom the bottom of the grid kind of just so it was still around but yeah it was there was sort of yeah a purgatory it was you know it was like stuck in an

airport yeah all flights had been canceled indefinitely and then sometimes you'd go look and then it would it would fully be gone from the board yes and that was when you knew i man i kept cards up to you know you don't want to hurt people's feelings cards would be up for like five years like oh yeah yeah we're good it's it's gonna be odd soon yeah the ones you could tell the ones that had been their longest because they would start to the colors would fade right from the sun there's an outline from the california sun and a layer of dust corkboard that's right on the pin if you zoomed in on the pin Oh, so sad But, so Brandon asked What's the longest a sketch

Yes Got pushed And I had a memory So we did some research To get the answer to this Yeah Because I had a memory of a sketch That writer Dan Cronin had written

Being on the grid for a long time He mentioned that Andrew Weinberg, another writer, used to call them grid urchins. So that was the name. That's a good description. Grid urchins. Yeah. Yes. So I looked back through. Yeah.

I sorted through a bunch of emails and I found the sketch in question. You're kidding me. No. Yeah, I found it. And it's called Andy Has a Snack. Okay. It was very evergreen. Yes. Andy gets hungry every day. He could have a snack at any time.

Yeah, and it basically involved Andy interrupting Conan with a loud crunch. He's eating carrots and tzatziki. Yeah. And then it cuts away to a cooking show he's made. That Andy's made? Yeah, a pre-tape. That Andy had made of a cooking

show that he then says he spent $80,000 on. And then it cuts away to another pre-tape of Andy robbing a bank, I'm assuming to get the money yeah to make the cooking show okay and then andy getting pulled over by a cop and then it cuts back to the audience so there's a dog in the audience oh boy that and that's how the sketch ends. Or it was probably the dog's puppy.

Yes. Wow. Well, so how long was this delayed for? Well, so it finally aired on September 11th, 2017. Okay. I don't think it had anything to do with our September 11th anniversary programming. I don't think so. But the first time it appeared on the grid. Yeah.

Was on April 11th, 2016. Wow. That. I was stunned. I couldn't believe. It was a year and a half in the making. Wow. Yeah.

I wonder if all those elements were assembled and then they just sat on a shelf for a year and a half. All the pre-tapes. Wow. The tzatziki was just sitting there. Now that you describe that sketch, I mean, I think it did really well. It did. That's the thing. Yeah, it's a funny sketch.

It did great. The audience loved it. It was really funny. That is a good revenge, though. Like, a funny sketch. It did great. The audience loved it. It was really funny. That is a good revenge, though. Like, if you're the writer, you're going to be, on some level, really quietly annoyed that it's sat around for that long. I know. And then when it goes on and does well, it's like, ah, well, okay. Too bad this didn't air a year and a half ago.

It could have changed the course of this show. Although maybe the audience wouldn't have been ready for it then. Maybe it needed, it was just in the zeitgeist that Andy was having snacks. Right. And robbing banks. And robbing banks. And that was the perfect week for it. Yeah.

I think all is as it should be. I think you're right. Especially now that it's four years later, it all seems right. Yes. Well, that was a great question. Yes. That was fun to research. And now we can reveal that question was sent in over a year and a half ago.

We waited this long to answer. But it's honestly been on the grid since then. Right. We've been meaning to get to it. And we do have lots of other questions on the grid. But we still want more. Please send in more questions. Please.

And please review and rate our show. Oh my gosh, yes. We would love for you to rate the show and review the show. 30 stars only. And you can also submit a question as part of your review. Those are kind of fun.

They're little Easter eggs for us. Oh, yeah. That'd be great. But if you don't want to go that way or you've already rated us, you can call us at 323-209-5303 or email us at insideconanpod at gmail.com. All right. Well, we'll see you next week.

Yeah. You will be much skinnier from your colonoscopy. I will. I'll be all recovered. Mm-hmm. And I'll be dating my doctor. So it's win-win. Yeah.

Call me from Big Sur. I'm assuming that's where you two are going. I will. All right. As we cuddle in Big Sur. Okay. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. See you right. As we cuddle and big, sir. Okay. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. See you later.

And we like you. Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast, is hosted by Mike Sweeney and me, Jesse Gaskell. Produced by Sean Doherty. Our production coordinator is Lisa Byrne. Executive produced by Joanna Solotaroff, Adam Sachs, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco.

Engineered and mixed by Will Becton. Our talent bookers are Gina Batista and Paula Davis. Thanks to Jimmy Vivino for our theme music and interstitials. You can rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts. And of course, please subscribe and tell a friend to listen to Inside Conan on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, or whatever platform you like best. It's the Conan Show. Put on your hat. It's the Conan Show. Try on some spats, you're gonna have a laugh. Give birth to a calf, it's Conan! This has been a Team Coco production.