Inside Conan: An Important Hollywood Podcast - Ellie Kemper and Michael Koman

Episode Date: May 15, 2020

Married couple Ellie Kemper (Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt) and Michael Koman (Nathan For You, Late Night with Conan O’Brien) join Conan writers Mike Sweeney and Jessie Gaskell to talk about Michael meeting and becoming friends with Ellie during her time as an intern at Late Night with Conan, how Ellie’s mother saved their relationship after seeing Conan visit a sick Michael on the show, the iPhone sketch in which Ellie & Michael played a couple in, and more. Got a question for Inside Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone] and e-mail us at [e-mail] For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com

And now it's time for Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. Hey, hi there. Welcome everybody to another episode of Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. My name's Mike Sweeney. I'm Jesse Gaskell. She is Jesse Gaskell, and we are writers on Conan. And this podcast, it's all about what's going on at Conan behind the scenes. And we have a great show for you today.

Things are very wacky right now because we're doing Conan at Home episodes. Literally the entire show is being done remotely. No two people getting together, everyone working in their own cubby hole at home. I actually shot something at home. I shot a commercial and I had to set up a little tripod and do it myself. And I felt like I was making a student film. That came out great. It was called Mind Chicken. Mind Chicken. It was an app that makes, well, I don't want to give it away yeah yeah

we we shouldn't give it away people should watch it yeah just know that every shot was painfully elicited by me alone at home and then having to go like scroll through all the shots and hating them all because you just don't like looking at yourself on camera they came out great you looked great yeah it was fine i'd be more worried about your dog. Oh, yeah. She did interrupt a lot of takes, especially the ones where I had chicken McNuggets in them. Yeah. What dog can resist? Basically dog food.

Did you feel like you were going insane sitting at home? Why am I doing this again? Who's this for? I did, but it also was sort of nice because I didn't have a whole crew around me, like waiting, waiting to go to lunch. And they're all looking at me like another take shooting with the whole crew there. Sometimes we shoot stuff of the, it's called the old show. Yeah. The pre pandemic show where there's 20 people standing around. And if you're shooting it through our control room, they literally do have to break for lunch.

And yeah, everyone is just staring at you. They're counting down the seconds and they're like, why are you keeping us from our sandwiches? Like if you're like, well, you know, maybe. Even if you're thinking that in your brain, you can't say that out loud. Yeah. Oh no.

I learned long ago that the only rule is just act like you know what you want. Even if you change your mind later, just be really confident in your bad decision exactly um well one i guess unexpected uh positive side effect of everyone being home is that we got to talk to some people this week that don't live in la and we normally wouldn't get to chat with them right very excited about this week's guests. They're actually a couple. A couple.

That met at the old Late Night with Conan show, and we thought it'd be great to talk to them. They're happily married with two beautifully young kids, and they talked to us after they put their kids to bed. It's Ellie Kemper and her husband, Mike Komen. Both very successful in their own right. Of course. You probably know Ellie. She is the

star of Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, which she didn't even mention this, but there's a new episode out this week on Netflix. Like didn't even promote it, which I think just means that she's some kind of angel. We found out after the fact, and it's called Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, of course, Kimmy versus the Reverend. And it's an interactive episode. So you get to decide how her adventure goes. Like she could get married or she could perform a rescue mission. I can't wait to watch it. Yeah. Especially an interactive show for a pandemic is perfect. You can really, that can eat up almost a day and a half. Yeah. Well, and Michael Komen is also a successful writer, producer.

He not only wrote on Late Night with Conan O'Brien, but he co-created Eagleheart and Nathan for You. And he's working on, it's a secret project with Nathan Fielder for HBO. And I guess HBO Max, that's something to look forward to. That should be great. So here's our delightful convo with Ellie and Michael. Love birds. We're here with Ellie Kemper and her husband, Michael Komen.

And we're here with Michael Komen and his wife, Ellie Kemper. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having us. It's an honor. Oh, my God. It's like 5 a.m. where you are. You're in New York City. No, we're actually in the Midwest. We're in St. Louis.

Is that true? Oh, radio voice. We're actually in New York City. You're so soft. I feel you misrepresented. It was later than it was going to be. I thought I feel like I flooded my emails with CMT. I was so proud to write CMT after all the time.

Also, Michael, what is M? No one abides by mountain time. C-S-T, Central Standard Time. Oh, no, we're in... Oh, yeah. But the second there was a hint of a virus in the air, we fled to St. Louis. Wow.

Wow, so you took the virus there. That's right. We were one of those flights out of New York. On the CNN map of the hotspots, you could actually see a dot crossing the sky. We're here with a super spreader family. Wow. So you've been locked down in St. You're based normally in New York City. So that's right.

Did you ever imagine you'd be in St. Louis this long? It's very strange. So the reason we're in st louis this long it's very strange so the reason we're in st louis is i grew up in st louis i'm from here and we're staying at a friend's house but the friends aren't here and it's weird because we normally only come back to st louis for holidays or like obviously a visit to see my family so it's for me it's weird because my memories of childhood are colliding with this horrible horrible unreal time that we're all living in and for you i don't know what your experience has been well no this has been

totally positive for me because well we have two children and they're able to we're uh some friends of ellie's family let us stay in their pool house so I just explained. In Michael's defense, he was going into more detail. He was. It's the pool house. He was only complimenting what you said. He was yes anding. If you're in the pool house, does that mean you also

get control of the pool as well? They're not opening the pool this year. It's not COVID related. It's an old pool and they don't want to open it anymore. Totally understandable. But there will be no pool, just the house. Bum deal. I want out.

Yeah. Of this free situation. I mean, a pool house implies working pool. Yes. No, I never would have accepted this sanctuary had I known. I'll show you the email. Pool parties. Pool house. It was you the email pool parties pool house it was consistently referred to as the pool house slash cabana yes well and you two you have two small

children so it it does seem like kind of the ideal time to be stuck at home because then you don't feel like you're missing out on anything yep out in Out in the world. It's not like you have to say no to all your friends, fun parties right now. Michael and Ellie, can we rewind a little bit into the past? Because you two are one of the only successful Conan couples. I think it is. Wait, have there been a lot of couples that didn't make it? There were many. There's only two other couples. Another writer, right? Andrew Weinberg met his wife. Wait, and who's the other couple? Were there two others?

Are there any? People that actually met, are still together. Oh, our head writer, Matt O'Brien. Oh, yeah. I was just going to say, did they meet at college? Yeah, of course they did. Yeah. Okay.

All right, good. Well, we're proud to be ranked among. And then there's probably a lot of one night stands. Oh, many. We won't talk did. Yeah. All right, good. Well, we're proud to be ranked among. And then there's probably a lot of one night stands. Oh, many. We won't talk about. Yes. So Ellie, you were an intern at Conan. First of all, I was an old intern. I was, I mean, old in years. I was 25. I turned 25 during my time there.

Yeah, she was an old intern. Wait, how did you end up being an intern there at 25? My younger sister, Carrie Kemper, nay Kemper, now Dugan, my younger sister was an intern there at an appropriate age, 20, 21. 24. 24. Well, she got me an interview with Aaron Cohen, who we all know of. And then when I was 24 and I got the unpaid

internship, I got it. Well, that's why when I met you I thought you were Carrie's younger sister. Oh, right. Not for any physical, I just thought you were there after Carrie. Because I was there after her, I know. But no, I was living in New York trying to figure out what to do and that's and so I thought, oh, I'm getting an internship.

And you were the casting intern. Yes, I was the casting intern. Oh. Well, were you hoping to be an actress at that point? I mean, was that? Yes, I was doing. So that seems really smart. Well, thanks.

In retrospect, it was. At the time, I feel like if you're an intern, I guess you're learning the ropes. You're seeing how television production happens. And I guess because of these aspirations to become an actress, I guess that's why I didn't interview specifically for the casting department, but that's where I was put. Yes. I was doing improvisation at Upright Citizens Brigade Theater and the People's Improv Theater. And that's what I was doing when I was in New York at that time. And I remember there was some satellite TV channel that we did that was, I can't imagine that it aired. It was awful.

Oh, it aired. Frank Smiley. Frank Smiley was the star of it, is how bad this was. Frank's still a producer on the show. It was called Dinner with Al Spinata. It was such a utterly, like, unprem. The entire concept revolved around that he wore an undershirt and spoke in a loud voice. I just remember he threw food at the camera.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. He almost got punched by the cameraman because he threw a tomato at Kurt Decker's camera. Yeah. And this was one that you had pitched, Michael? Yeah. Oh, yeah. This is's camera. Yeah. And this was one that you had pitched, Michael? Yeah. Oh, yeah. This is all Michael Cohen.

Yes. And then I asked, I mean, I'm hoping it was Frank's idea, and I was just helping, but I think it might have been something I actually pitched. But I asked Cecilia if Ellie could be the daughter in the film. Just say it in English. Cecilia was the casting director. Cecilia was the casting director.

And you went, so you had seen Ellie around the office, I guess. Yes. So I'd like to take credit. Yes. I definitely thought that this, she would just look funny on TV. But were you also kind of hoping that, you know, it would be an overture? Yeah. Like, hey, I got you this gig.

Well, this is also something that is, I always feel like is the reason we have a good relationship, our good marriage, is that we were friends for like two years before we ever went on a date. Oh, wow. And we were good friends. We talked a lot and we hung out, but there was not even a scintilla of romance on your end. Until we've known each other for years. Yeah, right, right. Oh, wow.

So, Ellie, you were long gone, I guess, from the office, but you guys were still keeping in touch. Oh, from the Conan, yes. From being an intern. I was, yes, because I was only an intern for how long? Six months, probably? A semester, yeah. A semester. If you A semester. And well, for those who are in college, those who are not out in the real world, not getting paid for their work.

And no, no, that's a that's a that's a diss on me, not on the internships. Internships are not paid. That's just how it goes. Yeah. In order to get the internship, I got college credit at the people at the pit, the People's Improv Theater. So that's how I got around. So smart. Really dodged that. Yeah yeah i figured it out but we continue to be friends real good scam for any of you aspiring interns out there who are above the age of 22 okay so yeah we continue to hang out and then and also i did see more of you because ceilia, bless her, would put me in sketches on your show. So that was after that was post internship.

Yes. And then the great thing about actors on late night and on all the Conan shows, if you're in something and everyone likes you, you start getting used a lot. Yeah. Which is great. That was awesome. A lot of times. Well, most of the time it was like a form of cheating because you knew who Conan liked and then you would cast them in your piece purely to manipulate him into using it in the show.

That's a big secret. Yes. Just a success on the Conan show. I'd see people bring something into rehearsal and the curtain would open in rehearsal and I'd be like, oh no, they cast him? Yes. Because I knew it was someone Conan didn't like,

just wasn't a fan of as a performer. Right, because it also works the other way where if there's somebody that maybe he saw one thing that he didn't like, he's soured on them forever. Yeah, no, it poisons the well. It's a tough business. So Ellie, you were one of the ones that he liked. I hope so.

Oh my God. Listen, I hope so. my god i listen i you were great so i don't know you're in a ton of sketches i was in i listen i really won the lottery because maybe we trace it back to carrie kemper because getting that internship i got to know everyone there and then i got a husband i got two kids no i mean, as, as it was a very successful husband hunt. It really was. It's so weird because Michael, you seemed older then than you do right now. I've said that many times.

Well, no, because that was my, the front I would put up was that I was. But you seemed like you had this whole lifetime before. I don't know. It's, I keep, time is strange things. Right? Did I was like, wow, this guy has absorbed a lot of old man stuff. You just talk about Italian

movies from the early 50s. I was like, what did he do? When did he do that? It was all just in the search for some kind of personality. Your days in LA, he led this life in LA that seems so, I mean mean you wrote for me you led this mysterious life writing for mad tv but you it really was so strange because you got that

job at such a young age well the first half of my life was much more eventful than the second the half the second half is much happier but there was a lot of uh just stuff that happened earlier so i had like good stories for a while. I'm sure there have been many great events in the second half of your life as well. The best event. The best events happened in the second half. To begin, we have the pool house. Yeah.

Didn't you get a job at MADtv when you were like 19? Yeah. That's crazy. Well, you know, there was an interesting job when I was 19. My first job, I got hired to be the assistant for a comedian named Barry Sobel, who is doing a five-minute talk show for Comedy Central. We ended up... That was Quibi ahead of its time.

I don't think it's... I think they aired. I mean, they did air, I think, at least once. But they wanted to do these programs in I think at least once but they wanted to do these programs in between their other after their movies because they ended at strange times and I think it was the first time that Jimmy Fallon was ever on TV was he did stand up on this Fred Willard was the sidekick on that and I started like I was getting very coffee and stuff but then we got along very well and we ended up writing a lot of the show together. And then Fred Willard, just purely out of kindness, I wrote him a letter a couple of years later and he came to our house to do a sketch show that my roommate Todd Glass was doing as a TV pilot. Fred Willard's agent is the reason I got the job at Mad TV. So I hadn't really written

anything other than that one. So you can write to Fred Willard and he'll come to your house. I wish it was more complicated than that. He didn't, I actually realized when he came to the house, he didn't remember me. He didn't know that I, we had met before. I thought, I just assumed that he would, but he got a letter saying, we're trying to. Oh, so he really just showed up. Yeah, just saying, we're doing a show one night. Would you mind doing this? And he came, and this was before email, so he responded to the letter and said, okay. And he said, as long as you don't film it or something and show it anywhere.

So he did it just to do something for an evening. It was incredible. Oh, wow. Wow. Truly for the love of the craft. I'm emailing him right now. He won't get it. You have to mail him.

That's right. You have to send a letter. Wow. Well, so, Michael, when you started at Conan, then you must have still been pretty young. I think I was 24. Yeah, that's really young. Not too young, yeah. I mean, I'm sure I was about the same age as Andrew Weinberg, right, when he started.

And he had just been an intern. You guys collaborated a lot together. We just learned, I did not know this, that I guess you guys were either just friends or maybe had gone out on one or two dates and then hadn't talked for a while. And then you tell us what happened. Yes, this is incredible. No, I'll tell you exactly what happened. We were friends for a while. And then I was just thinking of this. Yes, this is incredible. No, I'll tell you exactly what happened. We were friends for a long time. Then we sort of started dating a little bit. And I'll be honest, I cut it off. I was like, that's enough. I did. I mean, are you humiliated? No, I remember it really well. What happened was we went out on one date,

like actual official date. And it was a nice time. We obviously liked each other. And you giggled a bunch. And then you told me that you didn't want to go out after that. And I got really sullen. And we didn't talk for a long time. You guys know Michael is a little bit. Petulant. Petulant, yes.

You're childlike in that way. You sort of whine and mope and so yes you grew very sour and then you just decided not to talk we didn't talk all together right it was just i guess you were you were probably embarrassed right i mean is that why people get angry but anyway yeah so we but it's i've heard that you've never been angry people have angered I read that. So we weren't talking. And then, see, it's all the members of my family who did this because we weren't talking for a while.

My mom emailed. We emailed all the time. My mom and I emailed all the time, talked on the phone. My mom sent me an email that said, oh, how is Michael doing? I saw that, you know, he's sick. Conan went to his apartment to visit him. I saw it on the show and I had missed that episode. I loyal watcher of Conan, but hadn't seen that episode.

And I was like, and I looked it up online, I guess, right? There was the internet then. And I looked it up and there you were. And it's a very funny sketch. I don't know. Do we still have access to it? It wasn't a sketch. Yeah.

It wasn't a sketch. It was a remote. Or was this real? They put it up on YouTube when this podcast comes up. Yes. It was a remote. We'll probably put it up on YouTube when this podcast comes up. It's really great. So it was basically spontaneous. I think you're really exaggerating the quality of that.

No, I was genuinely ill. Well, you were mandering that too. You weren't that ill. No, I had strep throat. Andrew, I think, Andrew Weinberg deserves the credit. He suggested, why doesn't Conan just come to my apartment and see if I'm really sick? I don't know why, what I was thinking, but like to look like I was a team player, I continued to send in some jokes, but they were the, I put no effort into them.

They were really bad. And then he came and read them out loud in my apartment. Oh no. bad. And then he came and read them out loud in my apartment. And then I feel terrible about this, but the doorman let him up without calling me. And so, and then I think, I think what happened was then George, the doorman got nervous at the last second and called me right before Conan knocked. And he said, you have someone coming up. And he hung up. And then Conan knocks, and I answer right away, which I felt bad because that makes it look kind of fake. But then on the way out, I think they cut this out of.

Were you at least wearing a bathrobe or something? I was just wearing, like, pajama pants. To be fair, you don't look that sick. I think because you're trying to put on a good front. You don't look that sick. And I've read some of the comments on YouTube video or wherever I saw it. And they are like, he's not sick. I think because you're trying to put on a good front. You don't look that sick. And I've read some of the comments on YouTube video or wherever I saw it. And they are like, he's not sick.

No, people were like, what kind of piece of shit has a job like that and he's faking sick to get out of it? And then one comment even said, this is why we're going to go to war with Iran. Just my total lack of character. When it aired, when we left, we walked past the doorman and I was like, great job, George, nice security. And then, uh,

who said that? Uh, I think I did. Or I said that I said, thanks a lot, George. And then Conan said, yeah, great security got here. And then my super went crazy and i had this very strict romanian super who for he said you must edit that out of any rerun yep that must never air yeah this building anyone could pose as a late night host oh yeah exactly any thief could just come and say they're filming a late night show oh no he was like he thought the value of the building would plummet because of this and he tapped the side of the building and he goes michael these bricks are worth more than gold we are about to be plunged into war with iran thanks to you uh so anyway i have nothing but bad memories of that. No, but have a better memory now because my mom saw it, alerted me to your poor state.

And then I emailed or called you or something to see how you were doing. And then that started. Is that true? That's the reason. Oh my gosh. That's incredible. I mean, I know.

Yeah, it is a true rom-com. The setting is Manhattan. Like everything is out of a movie. And then there's a doorman. Oh, there's a doorman. There was. There was once.

He's gone. And anyway, it opened the communication again. Yeah. Well, you know, I think, can I go back for a second? Because there's something I forgot to mention, and I feel like it could upset him, is that the only reason I ever got a job at Conan was because when I worked at Matt TV, I worked at Matt TV and there were like three of us who worked together. And I don't think any of us really liked it there. One of them was went on to be a great Saturday Night Live writer.

And the other one was a former Conan writer named Greg Cohen, who I became very good friends with. And he recommended me to you. And I don't I think that's the only reason you would have hired me is on Greg's recommendation I love Greg was Greg's hilarious yes I love Greg he's my favorite right I don't think anyone I've never met anyone funnier than him and he but I think literally just out of spite for Matt TV like we hated it there so much and he he was treated so badly that I think just to undermine the show he was trying to recommend me to you so I could, so I would be, I would be taken out of the writer's room there. Well, it worked. You got in a plug for, I love a spite hire. I thought you had left the show before cause we didn't ever like to hire anyone who's already

on another show. Oh, interesting. I mean, I think I would have left anyway. What? You didn't work there. I'm so sorry. I'm interrupting your story. We're going to build this romantic story. Let me just backtrack 20 years to Mad TV. No, I'm pulling a shout out.

I want to go back to the love story because this is my bread and butter. I also love that Ellie's mother is a critical entrepreneur.

Yes, I know. And I feel like Michael's not acknowledging it. He's like, Greg Cohen. She must have been a Michael fan. She was a huge Michael fan. And I

have looked back at emails that I sent her at the time. And I said, I go, Mom, it's really weird. We are not at all dating. We hang out all of the time. I've never had a friend like this because we hung out so often, but there was no. Well, I'm very moved. Ellie's mother is a really brilliant, funny woman.

She is. That she would have given me, threw me a bone like that back then is incredible. She is the reason, but I mean, maybe we would have run into each other otherwise, but that's why we started talking. When you started talking again, what was different about it for you

than Ellie? Because you initially thought that that wasn't... I think, that you weren't interested romantically. Yeah, I think that we can. Well, Snowden said she wasn't interested. I think it was. She had other considerations. What is this? Remember, I was like, I need to focus on my career.

It wasn't that different. It was, I think it was still that we were just friends. Because, Michael, I seem to remember us being friends for like so long. I think we were friends for two years at least you were so hard to read you never discussed your personal life I didn't know anything I never heard of you dating anybody I didn't know anything about that part of your life we just we would walk around a lot and we'd hang out at the I remember there was like an atm we always go to that one time we went to that atm this sounds romantic i'm worried about my son developing memories at three i don't remember

anything from 24 to 32 oh but i remember oh can i say this because i'm so upset about this still there was one time was we got in a big it it was after we were dating. We got into a fight. I had your, I had this late night hoodie from you. It was just, I mean, it wasn't like you gave it to me. I just had it. It wasn't like wearing your letter jacket or whatever. And I was so mad at you. When I took the hoodie, we were in a fight. You were gone.

I took the hoodie and I ran up the street to housing works and I just gave it away to how, so housing works is a thrift shop where you can get yeah and i gave it away and then a week later like we had made up or whatever and i was so mad because it was such a great do you know what this is i was so mad i donated it to the needy and got the tax receipt i don't know but then you regretted it you wanted it back i wanted it back not only it was very comfortable, but also I was sentimental about it. I'm sad that it... I hope whoever has it now is having... I have a closet full of Conan stuff.

I mean, I'll send you pictures. You have the... Oh, great. And I can take it out from it? I would love that. I bet you have this. I don't know why you don't wear it more. I mean, the giant red-headed caricature on the back of every piece of clothing makes it evergreen. It really turns heads.

So then things just kind of clicked after that and you started dating? Again, I feel like it was a while. How do you make that transition? Because that's so hard. I think it was a definite decision. It was like. Yes, it was very abrupt. I do remember.

We did go from this limbo into suddenly we were in a relationship. But then I remember, but then there were many, I feel like, well, you don't like acknowledging this, but there was like a very, after we started dating, which I can't remember the timeline exactly, except that we were friends for so long. I stopped talking. Then you got sick. My mom like saved our relationship. And then we started becoming friends again. And then whenever the, whenever it turned. Then you got sick. My mom like saved our relationship. And then we started becoming friends again. And then whenever the,

whenever it turned, he got gravely ill. That's what it took. Then we, then we started dating, but then I do remember because we had, we had like a substantial breakup period, but I think that was, was that after the writer's strike?

No, because we were dating during the writer's strike. I know. So was it? Yes. And then there was another period when we weren't together, but I don't really remember when that was. The male never remembers that.

You, real Sam and Diane energy here. It's very exciting. Maybe this will help, because one of my favorite pieces that you did was right after the iPhone came out. And it stars both of you guys. I know. The first iPhone came out and you showed all the things it did. And it was like 20 different uses.

And it was so big. I watched this earlier, too. Yeah, it's great. It's funny how big the iPhone is. Yeah. It's so crazy that the iPhone came, that there wasn't an iPhone. Yeah.

And we all knew. I know. That's weird. But I remember, yeah, where were we in our relationship then? Were you guys dating then? I don't think we were.

Well, because you end up in bed together in the sketch. I know. Yes, I never would have taken those kind of liberties that would have happened if we weren't dating

because we were in a bed together. You just wrote a sketch where you were in bed together. I know. That's such a classic comedy guy move. I know. The part that I remember you know Jesse when you're filming a love

scene it's the least romantic thing in the world. It's so technical. No but the part I remember being like oh boy it was it was when there was some part where we were in a bathroom and we're both you were blow drying our hair yeah and it looked the way it would look if you actually were like in right bathroom so and that felt very i was so thrilled to get to be in that i'm trying to remember where like at what time of year that was i can't i just remember i think it was a summer

it was just a month or two after his sore throat healed. Well, the thing I really remember about that is I remember there was some shots of so terribly shot with Jason Chalemi where he was getting something squirted in his eyes and he was

clawing like a rat. And I... It was just the funniest piece of bad acting. Oh, right. It was Mace, of course. Yeah. And Brian Stack it was just the funniest piece of bad acting. Oh, right. It was Mace, of course. Yeah. And Brian Stack narrates the whole thing, right?

Yeah. That's a really funny sketch. I do think I know what happened though is Ellie's mom saw that sketch, emailed Ellie and said,

you look like a couple. It's impossible that you two aren't dating. Just get it over with. I mean, this is a commercial for Apple. Tell me you're not. Michael still looks sick.

I don't know. You've got to save him. I wish I could remember when anything happened. Did you find this? The one bad thing about that job was that every single day was spent in the same like three places like the your office the studio and that hallway on six and i ate the same thing every single day i went to work the same way and i have no idea of like what happened during which years like i have no i couldn't tell you what happened in 2005 or 2003. It all blends together.

It sounds like preparation for being in lockdown during a pandemic. Yes. The way you're describing it. Isn't that most jobs? Yeah. Is that everyone's job? Sorry. I just realized that is everyone's job.

You're doing the same thing every day. That's just normal adult life. Not everyone eats the same thing every day. That's true. That's unusual. What were you eating every day? I had a turkey burger at the commissary every single day. That's just normal adult life. Not everyone eats the same thing every day. That's unusual. What were you eating every day? I had a turkey burger at the commissary every single day.

The breadcrumbs to my grave will just be little turkey burgers. I must have had thousands of them. As an intern, I never ate at the commissary. I wonder why. I wonder what I did. I got like a 10% discount. I don't know. There was a lot of food. Sometimes when we splurge,

Weinberg and I would go to Cucina and Co. in the concourse. But that's not why people tune into this podcast. Okay, should we start recording? Should we get this going? Yeah. Have you two collaborated on anything since Conan? No.

James and Matthew? Oh. No, no, no. We haven't. No, and Michael, I remember at one point, again, I don't know if it was when we were friends or dating, but you were like, oh, we should write a sitcom together. Again, it was probably we were friends and you were trying to like again, step over.

You can start. It's like I've got my filthy mitts on you. Yeah I'll play your boyfriend. Yeah, he's not going to be in a sitcom. He's a master manipulator. You had the idea of that, but no. And now, have we collaborated on anything? I don't think so.

I mean, when have we ever? Can you imagine the time we have together that we use to try to write it? Well, what do you think of that? Well, you're both very busy. But that can be, do we know, who are the couples who do that i feel like that could be dangerous it has the potential to be dangerous i never found it i agree like becoming when couples did that together i mean it just seems like there's too much there's too much it can get competitive yeah yeah especially if you didn't start out that way. I mean, there's that old adage, like, never hire friends to do, you know what I mean?

Right. Because you end up having fights. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's a great, you know, I know this is old timing, but do you ever see, have you ever seen Born Yesterday, that movie? It's a great movie. Goldie Hawn?

Judy Holliday. Oh. Anyway, the couple that made that was married, Ruth Gordon and Garson Kanan. They were like a famous screenwriting couple. I think it works well when both people are in the same profession, maybe. I think if they're like two writers or two actors

who do stuff together. Well, I think that's when it would get competitive if you're in the same. But anyway, yeah, at the end of the day, then where do you go? You're both still with each other. So you're like, oh, well, how can we? I know. Well, I always wonder if like Joan of Arc and her husband. Right, you don't know when to of the day then where do you go you're both still with each other so you're like oh well how can we i know well i always wonder like to end the day right you can't share stories like oh this asshole i'm working right oh wait it's you right there that's true part of the joy of being in a relationship is talking shit about your co-workers that's so true. I love. Easy, Michael. Other people are listening. So stay positive.

Greg Cohen, stay positive. I know. I just love trashing people, Tally. Oh, my God. You know what's the worst? When I trash people to my wife and I can tell it's like, oh, no, she agrees with them. I'm the problem. I know.

I hate that. Every time. I hate that. Yeah yeah does she pretend to side with you or you just see it in her eyes that i see it in the eyes yeah yeah i mean i presuppose it i always assume i'm the blame for everything so yeah i just look for evidence all around me yeah it's always there i always always find it. You do. Yeah. I'm a monster.

Well, I was recently complaining about some job to you and I realized, oh, I complain about most jobs. And then I started to think, oh, I think the problem is me. But Michael's very patient. Oh, this is interesting. So you know how each relationship. I thought that my friend Joe came up with this, but I think it's like a well-known, again, adage. It's every relationship has a gardener and a rose. Yes, I heard that.

Yeah. It turns out it's true. But one person has to be the nurturer, I guess. And I do think, Michael, I think you were a little needier than I was. And then I came on. It became clear that I was the one who was going to be the needy one and I've noticed I think that people say people don't change but I think you have I think there is there was actually growth on my end of the relationship that I became oh you the rose had growth the rose had the rose grew and transformed into a human garden and I'd like to blame it on

being a child because I thought, Oh, I don't think any of that. No, I don't think that is true, but I was a very selfish person and I think it became less so because of you. Oh, I wasn't going to say selfish. I think that it was just, yeah, every I had bigger tantrums than you did and then I got to still have them, but that's interesting because people change. I'm here. I'm here to tell you. Well, maybe you'll keep switching back, too. Well, that's true.

You'll switch again. Yeah, it's not a role for life. Yeah, it'd be nice to have Michael start throwing tantrums again. I just have to get sick again. Didn't Michael throw tantrums? I mean, not like out of control, but wouldn't you have little tantrums at work sometimes? No. I mean, yes.

Well, you used to refer to it as my period. No, I mean, when you get upset about something, it would just make me laugh. Your voice goes up a bit and it's very enjoyable. Yeah, I know. It's like a squirrel coming in to complain. Get that squirrel out of the office. Well, you always had a great relationship with Conan where you guys, I think one of the reasons he went down to your apartment to check on you,

he wouldn't normally do that with someone else. It's because you had a great needling relationship. I know. I always wished that I had, that I actually had felt better. And so you could just fought him. I don't know what that relationship was, but I, it was, it went from mild need if it went from him needling me to mild needling of each other to physical violence. That's the normal course for employer relationship.

Yes. The brother you never had. Yeah. I don't know that relationship so well, but it was, I've never seen anything like it really. Because I just remember one week we all went to Los Angeles. I think we were shooting, but we were in the parking lot of Jerry's diner. My thing with Kona was that I would, I never, I didn't understand limits.

Like, so if, if there was any sort of mild, like pushing from someone, I would immediately start like thrashing my arms and, and grabbing at them, I think what happened, I did something where Conan like made some probably joke about my face. And then I grabbed his pants pocket and yanked it like very, very witty thing to do. It's like yank on someone's pants. And then he noticed his pants are torn.

And then he completely ripped the shirt off my body. And then I had to sit down in jerry's deli literally rags and then and that's the only time i was well i just didn't know saying what is this relationship it sounds like dominant submissive i know it's very strange michael you know it wasn't like we then like the two of us like got beer after. Like there's always people around. It was just this. Yeah, I was there. Hey, you picked up the tab. Yeah.

Well, I have a question. I don't know if either of you have anything that you can talk about, but what is your experience right now being locked down in St. Louis? Are you working on anything? Is stuff just kind of on hold? Michael is. No, are you working on anything? Is stuff just kind of on hold? Michael is. No, I was lucky. I've been working on this HBO show that is mostly a documentary style shooting.

So we had most of the show and we're able to edit over a combination of Zoom and one other program. So actually, it's kind of we're just finishing work like we normally would. Oh, that's great. And it's been like we're just finishing work like we normally would. Oh, that's great. Oh, that's great. And it's been like a very nice little escape. It's really lucky that you were done shooting and all of it. Yeah. I mean.

Very good timing. When's that show coming out? Are you allowed to say? I don't know. We don't have an idea. Hopefully, I'm hoping over the summer. It's something I've been working on with Nathan Fielder and this great, great. You worked on Nathan for You, right?

Mm-hmm. Every season. Mm-hmm. Which is an amazing show. The best show. Oh, thanks. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Incredible. And then there's this guy that Nathan met named John Wilson, who's this really talented documentary filmmaker who has his own style of, completely own style of making these films. And they're all at the this thing called johnsmovies.com but anyway that's what we've been working on well what's happening is is conan doing shows right now he is yes we're doing it all remotely every night so what are you doing for that is it just zoom via zoom and then there's comedy every night and it's all being made by individual craftsmen. Yeah.

Working together over the internet, you know, either. I filmed a commercial on a little mini tripod. Have you found it that it's helpful in a way to like you? It's exciting to have to come up with stuff. I think. At your house that you do with the phone. That seems like it could be. I think any change

in your you know daily schedule oh yeah is initially exciting and then after two days it's like ugh right

this again but it's also so much fun like when the audience people know that you had to make this at home I feel like right

they're very forgiving which I appreciate yeah and that's what everyone's like at the very beginning. I felt like what of just this current condition? I was like, what is this? You're just seeing the insides of everybody's home.

It's amazing how quickly it's become normal. We haven't been able to watch that much stuff, but I watched the Today Show one morning and I was like, wait, that's Savannah's home. It's just like everything is. But that's what it's normal now. I wonder what will like in the fall, I guess maybe you'll just do shows with no audience, right? I don't know. I don't know. That's the big, or do you have people sitting, you know, six feet apart?

So you've got 50 people in a theater, but they're spread out. But they're spread, right. But that's what Sweden is doing, I think, right now. I think if everyone wears a mask, can't they go? Yeah. Everything will be a drive-in. Yeah, we're all drive-in theaters. Yeah, they're all coming back.

Well, I have one other last question. I just have one more thing to say about Greg Cohen, but please go ahead. Ah! Do you remember I wanted to set Greg Cohen up with Carrie, my sister who got me the internship? I mean, years ago. That's how much I love him. Run it by your mother. Your mother's like, I love that Greg Cohen.

You've got to do something for Greg. Figure it out. All comedy writers, son-in-laws. Well, we, we like to ask all of our guests, if you have one piece of advice that you could give to somebody who wants to do what you're doing you know thinking it could be it could really be anything it could be in how to how to get started uh how to you know mailing address i'm gonna go first because it's yeah for, Michael, you're going too far. Our earbuds are going to rip out.

Oh, yeah, we're sharing earbuds. It's adorable. You too. That's how much we love each other. We share everything. My advice to aspiring, I guess, actors would be, there's nothing funny about this, would be to create as much of your own content as you can,

which now it's such a different era. It feels like there are so many more platforms to create on with that. It's even, I don't know, it's more, it feels more accessible now, but, you know, as an actor, you're sort of, you're, a lot of the time you're waiting for things to come your way, a script to land on your doorstep or your agent to call. But I think in order to get going, you have to take charge and create as much as you

can and I guess not all actors are or should be writers but I think it's about taking control so that you feel I think that also gives you confidence so I would say to anyone trying to become an actor to create as much of your own content as you can we we've never discussed I'm not like this isn't like I'm setting up I I really don't know. But do you feel like because you did improv and you met a lot of people in that world, that that made a difference in the offers you had and the opportunities you had? Sure. Are you recommending, well, don't recommend the UCB theaters. I know that just closed.

So what are you trying to dangle in front of these? I just mean like, I feel like the only thing I know is you kind of want to, like, rub elbows with people who have similar interests. Absolutely. Yes. And yes. Literally elbows now because we can't shake hands. Yes. I'm trying to be responsible.

In my day or second. Yeah. And you could apply that to, I guess, most industries. But yeah. It's always exciting when you first meet people with the same interests and sensibilities oh yeah it's like oh okay didn't know that they were there right i think that's what the improv theaters did because i i didn't even know that was i knew about chicago and everything but then when you like that that was a big improv town but he came to new york and

like oh these people they like doing what i'm doing. Yeah, it's a great discovery. Yeah. And then you have this kind of natural support system that you don't even realize is a support system. People you're doing the same stuff with are also become your friends. Well, it's so funny because when we were at Conan, so many of the writers at Conan

had come from Second City and always hung out at UCB. Brian McCann and Jack Lazor and... Brian Stack. Brian Stack and Kevin Dorff. So that was my whole social life. I would not have had any social life if it wasn't for this other organization that I had no part of.

But if it wasn't for the improv world, I don't know what I would have done in that. Those were all the people I would see. What's your advice? God damn it. She got it right. She took yours. would have done in that like those those were all the people i right what's your advice this is damn it she got it right she took yours she's a lot more successful than i am anyway i'll never make that kind of dough um i would uh if you feel like enthusiasm for something i think that's a sign that you might be good at it so you should should listen to that. So whatever you shouldn't talk yourself

out of something that you want to do, because you feel like you're not destined to do it, or you feel like, well, too many other people will want to do that. If you like something, it is probably a sign that that's what you should do. That's good advice, too. Great, yeah. Very valuable, Michael. Don't listen to naysayers. No. I mean, especially once you

start creating stuff, having your own personal conviction about your taste and about your comedy sensibility is really important because you are going to have so many notes from various sources. This is, I think, the tricky thing

now is that even though so many people have come from UCB, and I feel like it's improved the world of comedy a lot, I guess the tricky thing is to have your own taste and to stick by it and not feel like you need to agree with everybody who's in the same field as you are. Right. And I think that sometimes is trickier now. Yeah, right, right right right when you think about your favorite things you just love often they're from one or two voices as opposed to something being done by committee it automatically gets watered down it's so true and and and because to me like and you notice tv shows like at any certain period will all sort of sound like each

other right like the people all have the same rhythms and who, and yeah, but I feel like the things that really, really hit home with you are usually just some one person who, when you're young, you just like sit up, right. You can't do something about it.

It just grabs your attention and you don't really know what it is. That's interesting. I mean, did you have that when you were young? Like, was there somebody that you just, yeah, yeah. And you, you kind of, you put a lot know what it is. That's interesting. I mean, did you have that when you were young? Like, was there somebody that you just... Yeah, yeah. And you kind of, you put a lot of eggs in their basket, like you confessed it and how their career goes.

Right. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and then later on, you end up hearing stories about how they were told no, or, you know, they got all this criticism from people, and you're like, what?

No, that person's a genius. Well, it's the weirdness of like that you hear something and i assume like it's like if you get into music or any field that you really if it's kind of driven by you're just like you're like needing to do it but it is to come across something when you're on and it's like what is this and to like need to absorb all of it like constantly and by the way that's really lucky to have that it is like it's so lucky something has sparked at such a young age but you know life seems like it's going to be so long but

you look back and i still feel like oh my god yeah my life has been pretty much shaped by what's something that happened when i was 14 what was that michael no i just mean you know you see something you like and i and now it's crazy like in, Michael? No, I just mean you see something you like. And now it's crazy. Like in the old days, you'd have to if you saw something on TV, you'd have to wait seven months to see that first. Now you can just in two hours watch everything

that person's ever done. Yes. It's crazy. I don't know how I feel about that, but yes. I know it's so true. My sons do that. You could burn out on your greatest love the weekend. Next. Yeah. Well, thank you for hanging out with us

after your kids went to sleep. Do you want to get any extra material that you can replace others more boring sections with? Oh, yes. We were put in for over an hour. Don't worry. No Michael Komen.

You'll be cut out. Thank you so much for talking with us. First of all, in addition to enjoying the podcast, it's so nice to talk to people. We've only been talking to each other. This is the longest conversation we've had with anyone since we got here. So thank you for providing that. Of course. It's so nice.

I'm glad the bar was low. No, it, yes. There's so much to talk to you guys. The only outside conversation we've had, my son talks to my mother every day exclusively about animals. And so this is the only. It's very sweet.

Yeah. It's very sweet. There's so much to talk to both of you about, but we thought since this kind of rare chance to get you two together, we could talk about, since you have such a cool background. Your story. Yeah, your story. I could talk about it all day long.

Well, I do recommend they talk to you at some point again. You keep not answering exactly what they just put out. You both have separate careers that we didn't really cover at all. Right, exactly. And no need because we both were here. You know what? In a way, the relationship is our career. It's our love career.

Maybe you're both the gardener. Maybe it turns out I do some nurturing as well. That means there are no flowers. Just gardeners. Well, my fear sentiment i don't have to say i am i am the luckiest man in the world and i you know i said this to conan once i said this don't you were the luckiest man no i didn't i tell yes uh i think i made him

uncomfortable when i said this but no the same thing is true with you, Mike. So many of the best things in my life are from you because you hired me on that show and it was the really best things that ever happened in my life. It's the reason I met Ellie and almost all the things I got to do after

that. I really do appreciate it. Oh, well, gee. I just do what Greg Cohen tells me to do. Yeah. We all do. Well, I'm glad it worked out. We're all so sentimental during this time.

I know. I know. Quarantine tears. Quarantine tears. Mushes. Tugging at the heartstrings there. That's so sweet. Now I'm crying.

Forget it. Well, thank you, Ellie and Michael. Yeah, and can you let us know when you get to leave St louis i'm curious i'm so curious to know i also i just yeah we and we don't know where we're going right new york is with two small kids is not ideal right yeah if you have any suggestions suggestions what's the next one we locate for a year yeah right just stay at the pool house eventually they have to open that pool. I was going to say find a new pool house with a real pool. Yeah, exactly. That's

objective number one. But yeah. Well, anyway, everyone in the world can figure out what to do. Thank you guys so much for having us. Thank you guys so much. Thank you. This was great. And that was our interview with Ellie and Michael. Yes. Hopefully they got some sleep after that.

It was getting late where they were. They wanted to keep talking. It was clear that they had not talked to other adults in a while. It's true. That's when we strike. And I love their love story. It's a lovely story. I had no idea about Ellie's mom and her role.

I don't think Michael did. If anyone out there has any matchmaking requests, they should send them to Ellie's mother. That's a great idea. All right. Well, that's it for us this week. But we'll be back next week. We hope you're all staying

sane out there and safe. Stay sane and safe and stay inside and wash your hands. Thank you, Dr. Fauci. You're welcome. We like you. Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast, is hosted by Mike Sweeney and me, Jesse Gaskell.

Produced by Jen Samples. Engineered and mixed by Will Becton. Supervising producers are Kevin Bartelt and Aaron Blair executive produced by Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco and Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Earwolf thanks to Jimmy Vivino for our theme music and interstitials

you can rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts and of course please subscribe and tell a friend to listen to Inside Conan on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher Google Podcasts or whatever platform you like best