Inside Conan: An Important Hollywood Podcast - Gary Gulman

Episode Date: October 2, 2020

Stand-up comedian Gary Gulman (The Great Depresh) stops by to talk with writers Mike Sweeney and Jessie Gaskell about what lead to going to college on a football scholarship, the origins of his viral Conan stand-up set about state abbreviations, his transition to more personal comedy, and why he thanks coffee & Mark Twain for his 365 Gulman writing tips. Plus, Mike and Jessie talk about Max Weinberg’s inclusion to bits on Conan over the years. Gary Gulman’s State Abbreviations on Conan stand-up set: http://teamcoco.com/node/95524 Got a question for Inside Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone] and e-mail us at [e-mail] For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com

And now it's time for Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. Hello, welcome to Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. My name is Mike Sweeney. I'm a writer on The Conan Show, and I'm joined by... Jesse Gaskell, also a writer on The Conan Show, and your host today for this tour through Hollywood history. Recent Hollywood history. Going back 20 minutes. How are you? Oh, you know, I'm hanging in there. Barely. Yeah, I don't know. The news is getting worse and it seems like it can't get worse and then it somehow does. So I have to hand it to 2020 for that.

If you know it's going to get worse and it really will just keep getting worse, these are the good old days. That's true. It may never be better than it is at the moment. It's not going to be. So I would just. Embrace this. And I think the next few terrible. News stories. Just keep going. It's.

This is still pretty great. Compared to. What it's going to be. Exactly. Problem solved. It's called. Being a simpleton. The Mike Sweeney approach.

What's for lunch. It was when the. Earthquake happened. In California. It was when the earthquake happened in California. It was like, oh, come on. Yeah. I was awake. We were watching TV, my boyfriend and I, and we actually, I think, handled it really well where we kind of, as soon as we felt, we started to feel it. We looked at each other and then we both sprinted to opposite doorframes.

Wait, is that true? Yes. It was like, we did a really good job. We hadn't discussed it. I feel like you were deserting each other. Well, it could have been like a, did you ever see the movie

Force Majeure? Oh my God, yes. Where one of us like knocks the other one down to try to use their body as a human shield. Was there a point where you were both

in the door frame staring at each other? Yeah, we were just on opposite ends staring at each other like, okay, I hope this is quick. Right. I thought that dogs were supposed to sense when an earthquake was going to happen. Yes, a little sooner. Yeah, but mine didn't. So she was just still in a different room and she was asleep.

And then I was like calling her in, like get it, you know, trying to get her where I could see her. But she didn't even react when you were reacting. It sounds like, no, I think she was like, eh, this is a 4.8. This isn't anything.

Total earthquake dud of a dog. You know, it's true. Like earthquakes, a, you don't know when they're coming and B and look at all this stuff you wanted to test out. You want to test out your dog. You want to test out your boyfriend. And you've got to be ready. You don't have time to prepare or think about it in advance. You just have to do it. Anyway,

our guest today. No, but we have a great guest who I think is perfect for coronavirus times. Oh, I agree. For any times, but especially now. He really blew up on Conan. He did a stand-up set on Conan that has millions and millions of views. And I've read other comics have talked about this appearance and talked about the bit he did saying it was a perfect six minutes of comedy. I didn't know the story behind how it came about, but it was, I guess, a long time in the works, which was really fun to hear about. He worked on it for such a long time. It was fascinating to hear about its evolution. Yeah. And I recently watched Gary Goleman's HBO special, which is all kind of about his battle with really severe depression. Right. Called The Great Depresh. And it was really moving, but it's also, it just, it's really comforting because I think we're all dealing with some version of depression right now. Yes. And can I say one other thing?

It's really, really, really funny. The jokes are so funny. Comedy first, depression second. It was a treat to get to talk to Gary Gullman. We're here with Gary Gullman. Gary Gullman, I'm going to guess you're in New York City. I am. I am in New York City right now.

There's your apartment. I recognize that apartment from your special. Oh, yes. It's not just a set. It's your actual apartment. Yeah, that's my favorite aspect of that special is that my family who never visits me got to see what my apartment looks like.

Thanks for coming on the podcast. We really appreciate it. My pleasure. I love anything to do with Conan and Team Coco. And it's been such a significant part of my career and building my following. And I just am eternally indebted and grateful for Conan and all you guys over there. And I feel like I have a special relationship with you guys because I've known the writer Brian Kiley since I was an open.

Wow. So I've always rooted for the show because I was rooting for Brian Kiley, who, if anyone has ever met him, he's like the sweetest, kindest, most thoughtful man. Yes. So you started out in Boston, and that's such a big, strong comedy town for stand-up. It really is. My first gig was October 11th, 1993 at Nick's Comedy Stop. The emcee was Billy Martin, who's, I think, the head writer or executive producer at Bill Maher's, what does he call his show on HBO? Real Time with Bill Maher? Real Time, right.

Yeah. But he was really nice, too. He gave me a compliment after my first show. It was a very gentle beginning. I didn't have too much trouble getting people to be nice to me. I was really in that respect. Yeah. Well, you're a nice guy. I wonder if that just sort of, you know, it's nice begins niceness in the comedy world. And it helps that you're funny too. The weird thing in comedy is at your worst, you also have the worst audiences and you're learning at the highest difficulty possible. It's just a weird trial by fire. Yeah. You need a bigger sample size, I guess, before you decide if you're good or not. There's so much that goes into it before you can figure out because the jokes might not work because I would seem so nervous. And also my delivery was based on me first remembering what I was going to say

and then saying it. So it's like, I don't know if you guys have noticed this, but I don't know if he still does it, but I always felt like Arnold Schwarzenegger was translating in his head into English before he said things. So there was a disconnect. And I felt like that's what was going on in stand-up was I was reading off this blackboard in my head and saying these things that I had memorized.

So there was a lag time. Yeah. Yeah. So the audience wasn't going to respond to that. Actors say that too, like, you know, learning their lines where they can do them, you know, frontwards and backwards and in one breath so that they don't have to think they eliminate the thinking process. Right. But with stand up where you're trying out new stuff, there's no way to eliminate, I would think, not being up to speed on your own material because you're trying out new things, hopefully all the time. Right. up to speed on your own material because you're trying out new things hopefully all the time right there's a point i got to finally maybe five or six years ago where i wasn't writing down memorizing

i was saying then writing down and then remembering but early on for the first 15 years it was it was so hard to get on stage that i had to be completely prepared. I couldn't go up there and riff and figure things out. Yeah, there are guys who say, I don't want to memorize it because then it seems like I'm reciting and thinking about it. And yeah, I envy that. But I've had to meld kind of the prepared with the riff. And then it's a combination from what I've read. And I didn't do this intentionally, but Seinfeld is a guy who writes, memorizes, and does an impression of himself. And then

Shanling was a guy who changed it up every single time and adjusted the pace, even the order of the words and the content of the joke. And so I think I've kind of melded those two things. And then finally, when I'm doing either Conan or a special, I'll lock in and say, okay, this is exactly what I'm going to say when I do this because this is the best version that I've been able to arrive at. Well, it sounds like the way you started out, when you said the first 15 years you had to literally write and memorize what you were going to do, that actually sounds like just great discipline.

So I imagine that forced you to really think about the writing process and what you were going to say. That sounds like a good way to start out is to really work hard on that. Yeah. I think, thank you. But I think it was more out of, out of desperation. I mean, I revere comedians and comedy and I would constantly every six months or so have this, this crisis where I would say, I'm not doing right by this art form that I revere. I'm a pedestrian and I need to overhaul things. And then so I would desperately write. And the

guys I admired when I was a teenager, like Seinfeld and Leno and Letterman, but particularly guys who did The Road, they would all talk about how much time they spent on a joke. And so I figured that was the answer. And so I adhered to that to the detriment of my mental health and my confidence because I never let up as far as the criticism in it. And it's just... Right. You mean self-criticism. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One thing I loved about stand-up comedy was how I was so excited to be around other people

with low self-esteem. I was like, oh, okay. Oh, I can just... We all hate it ourselves. I'm normal, yeah. And when I'd meet comics who were really kind of like, well, you know, I'm going to do what I always do, I kill. I'd be like, oh, okay, I need to avoid you.

Stay away from you. You're not, but I was really curious with your jock background, your sports background. You're six foot six. So you obviously by law had to play. Probably got pushed into sports. Yeah. Clearly basketball.

But then you went to college on a football scholarship. Oh my God. And I'm just fascinated about because jocks in, you know, or at least the perception of them is, is that they're those people who don't ever lack self-confidence. I don't know if that was your experience. But it sounds like maybe you learned some things from being on sports teams that helped early on kind of help you attack doing comedy. Sure. I haven't talked that much about it.

Yeah. Well, you don't have to. No, but nobody ever asked me and I'm always disappointed because I do like to talk about the overlap. But the overlap is not with the confidence. I think any of my athletic performance or any of my accomplishments were based on this discipline to work really hard during the off season. First it was with basketball. And I found the same thing in comedy. It's not that hard to outwork other people in your field

because probably they're not as desperate as I was. But my confidence was based on athletic accomplishment at first. And so the only way I knew to accomplish was to outwork everyone. And I will say I did have certain gifts in my size and I could run fast and jump high, but especially basketball, that was a sport that required so much practice

and repetition and solitary practice and repetition because shooting is something that you really have to work on on your own. And basketball is the sport I was drawn to because you could work at it by yourself. And I think that's what drew me to writing later on. And football was this weird confluence of my basketball ability and these two guys who were assistant coaches, unpaid volunteer assistant coaches on the high school football team who saw me dunk a basketball in a gym class and tormented me. That looks like a football player. Yes. They tormented me for the entire year asking me to play on the football team.

And they just wouldn't let it go. Right. And every time they saw me. What are you doing, Gary? What are you doing? Gary, you're missing out on scholarship and newspaper articles and concussions cheerleaders yeah yes they would say cheerleaders and i was and and i wanted to say to them i wish you guys knew me because this is not right not really but i am so it was the first day of summer vacation after my junior year of high school.

I woke up at 7.30 to the phone ringing thinking there was an emergency. It was one of these guys. You're saying, how do you get their phone number? They looked in the phone book. There's only one dull man. They called my house. I answered it. They said, meet us at this gym in Salem, Massachusetts in a half hour. We're going

to train you all summer long. You're going to get a scholarship to play football in college. And I don't think, I don't remember exactly, but I don't think it was much more than I have nothing else to do today. Right. If only you had a paper route. I can't say no. Yeah. Their charisma was so intoxicating. They were these twins. They were really handsome.

And they just talked to me in a way that my family and everyone in my life didn't talk to me. They made it like I could do anything. I was like, you guys really think I'm going to train with you for six weeks and get a scholarship to college after never having played football? And they go, fuck yeah. Nobody had ever double teamed me in that way. Both two guys saying fuck yeah simultaneously. Yeah, like two dads. Yeah. I would have done anything for them after that point. They would take me out to breakfast every day after we worked out.

And then they would just build up my confidence. They were so enthusiastic and positive and optimistic. And they believed in me in a way that I never believed in myself. Have you ever seen them since, like, once you went off to college? It's like, I wonder what ever happened to those twins. I talked to them pretty frequently. Oh.

And they live in Los Angeles. Oh. It's the Sklar brothers. One wrote on JAG. Oh. They're TV writers? I love this. That's hilarious.

It's hilarious because I remember them, this is going to sound made up, but I remember them not only being really into football and training, weight training and athletics, they also had a screenplay. I mean, they just believed in themselves. Wow. Talked themselves into any room

and they're very charismatic. I was so happy because I made them proud and they really gave so much time and effort into that summer and throughout the season. And then that was part of the pressure during the football season was when I would make mistakes, I would be like, I have left these guys. I'm not going to get to go to breakfast anymore. It put so much energy into me. For me to let them down, it just was too much. Wow.

After that, comedy sounds like a lark, you know? You don't have these twins waiting for you when you get off stage. But it's a similar thing, I feel, at Conan because J.P. Buck, the booker for the producer, and he does the comedy segment. He is so encouraging and believes in me. And there's part of me that every time I do it, I don't want to let this guy down. I love that. Whenever you put somebody on your show, you're taking a chance. They're occupying the stage for a portion of the show.

And you just don't want people to roll their eyes at the person you chose. Right. Well, you've never not killed. So I don't know that it's that big of a risk. You've never made JP cry. No. I don't know if, Mike, if you ever felt this way.

I still feel I'm walking the tightrope every time i i get on stage and that i mean one one thing that i always do before i go on conan's show is i have it used to be jimmy pardo and then now it's gary or the last time it was gary cannon the warm-up comics right the warm-up comics introduced me to the audience and i was hoping that the audience would like me before I got on stage, that they would feel comfortable with me and want to root for me and not just want to have Conan back on there. That is a very smart thing to do. Yeah. I didn't know you did that. That's just such a simple icebreaker.

And then when you come out later, even though you're out there for a sec, it's like, oh, we know this guy. We love him. We know that guy. That's our friend. We're going to help him please JP. You've been on so many late night shows, like you were on The Tonight Show, you've been on Letterman, Kimmel, all the shows, which is great. Yeah, with different bits every time. That's really hard to do. Really hard to do. But then in 2016, after several appearances on Conan, you did a routine that blew up about state abbreviations. Oh, it's so great. Yeah. How long had you been doing that routine before you did it on The Conan Show? I wouldn't call it a one-hit wonder, but it's the one that most people know me from. And I feel like, I don't mind because I think it's a good example or sample of what I do. I got in second grade, reading is fundamental. It was called riff. It would bring a whole pile

of books and every kid got to choose two. And one of them was the arrow book of states. I think it was some sort of thing where they were trying to get out this new state abbreviation thing that were only two letters. And I became obsessed with trying to memorize, and I recognized how difficult it was because so many of them started with the same first two letters. When I first started doing comedy, I wrote this really long thing about the men and one woman who abbreviated the states. It had most of the components of the final thing, except what needed to happen was everybody had to start watching documentaries that were not about either World War II or... Not Ken Burns documentaries. Yes, or about baseball.

So I didn't have any reason to tell people that most of the states start with the same first two letters. It just seemed so conjunct and out of nowhere. So I would bring it up every couple of years, try to get a laugh. And you're like, it's still not time yet. It's not ready. Right.

And then I saw this documentary about the Helvetica. Oh, yeah. I wrote a joke about the Helvetica documentary. It was riveting, but also so surprising that they even made a documentary about something so so boring yeah someone spent three years of their life putting that together yeah and then one night i had this idea you should say that the state abbreviation documentary you should you should take it seriously and it was it was not even planned before I got on stage. It was just such a good audience that I said,

I'm going to keep going with this idea of ridiculous documentaries, and I'm going to talk about the state abbreviations. Once I had that sort of frame for it and I got laughed, that's when I learned early on that I could really save a lot of discouragement and disappointment if I didn't go all in on a joke until I got a few laughs off of a few lines. Then I would go really all the way with it. And that's what happened. So over a couple of years, I kept adding and tweaking. And one night, JP was in the audience at the Comedy Cellar, and I knew it.

And I didn't know he was going to respond to it, but I said, I'm going to give this a shot because this is the best joke I do right now. And he emailed me a couple of days later, maybe texted me, and he said, do you know anybody who does a joke about state abbreviations? I'd like to put them on Conan. And I was so thrilled. And the other thing is, most of the time, they want you to do a few different jokes.

Right. That take as long as you want, do every single in and out of that joke and ignore any kind of stop sign or anything, just get the whole thing. And so that gave me so much, so much, what I would say was it was very soothing to my fears of doing a TV set, which is that you'll, you need to get everything in. And I would go so fast and I probably went too fast even then, but I was much more relaxed and I got to do everything. And I can't tell you how surprised I was that it went, I guess, viral because it's not that I don't think that anybody watches, it's that I think nobody is going to do any

follow-up to the show, like That they're going to share the video? Right. Because that's what all of it was. It was people sharing it. Yeah. I was just so grateful for the crazy shares. And another great thing that happened was Patton Oswalt gave this rave review of it on his Facebook. And that drew even more people.

Oh, that's great. It has over 1.7 million views. Yeah. I just thought. I rounded it up to 2 million. Oh. Right. That was on YouTube,

but through Facebook, it was over 30 million. Oh, my God. Oh, wow. Yeah, we wanted to undersell it. That's amazing. I love that story because there's so many times

when you have a bit or a piece of writing or something that doesn't get, maybe it gets rejected or it doesn't work out the way you want it. And so you just put it away. And this is a success story for a piece of writing that didn't have a life for so long. But then you had to kind of it took as long as it did for you to figure out the that remaining piece of the puzzle. And that was what made it all work. Whenever I...

I have jokes that just about everybody is exposed to the premise for it. So I remember I had a joke about enjoying sleeping on the couch. And I was like, a lot of people have access to that. And I won't put too much effort into that if it doesn't work right away. But then you have jokes where you think, and the abbreviations of the states is one where I think, well, nobody is going to try this. So when you have a chance to be original in a space where there's very little original, I think you really have to go all out and stay on it for as long as you have to. I just think of that,

and I'm not comparing myself to him at all, of course. It would be sacrilege. But Albert Einstein has this quote where he says, I don't think I'm smarter than everybody else, which is like false humility. Of course you are. But he said, I'll stick with the problem longer than everyone. I think that was what I did with the state abbreviation.

Most people, if it doesn't work after 20 years, I know I had an original thought right and you know what i love that jp's told you hey don't worry about time and you know what i watch that bit again today it's over six minutes long which is very long that's a long set like usually the stand-up sets on con are like five minutes. So it's a longer set than normal. And the entire set was literally just about the state abbreviations. And it's such a testament to how great a piece it is that over 30 million people have watched it. Because it's so beautifully written and it's so tight. You just sit there and enjoy the whole thing.

Yeah. Yeah, well, I really appreciate that. I'm very proud of the idea that so many people shared it. I'm really touched after a show when people come up with their family of different generations that come to see my show because I can't tell you how helpful it was growing up that I could share comedy with my brothers and my mother and my father. Those were really special moments of enjoying something together. I remember my brother worked at the movie theater. He would come home. He worked as an usher. He would just

pretty much watch the movies all night. He would come home and recite lines from Young Frankenstein and Blazing Saddles, and we would just be on the floor. It was such a memorable and delightful time. And I just, I always saw comedy as this magic connection. Well, in your special, The Great Depression, which came out on HBO and was a giant hit. And there were so many articles about it, about what a great and special... Special. Special it was. Yeah.

And it really is. It's an amazing... You know, it's you doing stand-up and weaving in documentary footage, like you with your mother. Yeah. But that special is fantastic. Unbelievable.

And it's so unbelievably personal because you're talking about your battle starting in, I think, around 2017 with depression. You know, we were just talking about the state abbreviations bit. And now with the Great Depression, your comedy is so intimately personal. Was that a big transition for you? And what do you think about now just in terms of going forward with your comedy? It was so fortuitous.

First of all, I've had some sort of mental illness and depression and anxiety since I'm probably seven years old. The longest and deepest instance starting in 2017. And it brought me to my knees. Again, with the timing being perfect, I don't think that I could have worked out. It took over a year to write and test and weed out and add jokes that became The Great Depression. It took around a year to do that. But I had built an audience through the state abbreviations joke and through some other appearances that trusted me to deliver funny jokes. And they weren't there just to see a comedy show. They were there to see me. some more personal and heavier material.

And so a few years before that, I probably wouldn't have been able to gain the confidence necessary to do that and to do it well. I don't know if you remember, Mike, but there was a comedian when I was first coming up, and I can't remember who it was, but he said something to the effect of, let me just tell you something, folks. If I can make one person laugh tonight, I suck. Yeah, that rings the bell. Sounds like me. Whoever said it, I thought it was so brilliant.

Oh, it wasn't me then. I actually adopted that. Not that I suck. I actually took the other side. I said, if I can make one person in the audience feel less alone and more understood with regards to their mental illness or whatever, I will be a success. And that's such a low bar.

I mean, I soared over it every night there were yeah yeah there were a lot of people after the shows who would say I have a family member or I've felt it personally and that was so gratifying and it was a new area of my comedy that I had not really explored, which was this deeper connection. And so I couldn't have planned, well, the way I'm going to move on from strict observational, silly humor is to go through a crisis. But in a way, where now I feel like people would would say okay we trusted him with the depression let's let's hear what else he has to has to say i'm not going to turn into mort saul or or bill hicks or or george carlin or anything but i i feel i i have a license to be a little more personal and maybe a little talk about things that are a little deeper or, or in some cases a lot deeper than,

than what I was doing with my silly or, or, or absurd. And that's gotta be super exciting. It's literally almost like this whole new Avenue opened up to you at this point. And now that you're, you also have a,

you're a, you know, like you're, you said you already had a following and plus this whole giant new world of things for you to think about and talk about. That sounds exciting. And anytime you have a crisis, that becomes material. That's right. So there's no downside.

But you know what? If ever there's a time for you and your wisdom, it's now. Because so many people have been saying they've been depressed since March 13th when everything started getting shut down. I know people are always asking you for advice, but do you have particular advice for people right now? People do reach out to me and I tell them to, I mean, I hate to say do what I do because I'm guessing that the different ways to get out of the depression or anxiety are different for everyone. So I do have- It's not going to be stand-up comedy for everybody.

That's right. Go out, write a special, workshop it. Pitch it to HBO. I do have a pathway that got me out. And I think I actually pulled out my notebook on probably around March 16th. what were the things that you used initially when you were at your lowest that started to bring you out of the depression and especially the anxiety, which was severe at the time. I was just, I was shaking and I would bite my lip until it bled. So the things that were such, I mean, everybody makes fun of this term because it was so funny. And what about Bob?

But baby steps, as trite as it is, I mean, I was doing things like walking around the block slowly with my dogs. And you can't tell me that that wasn't part of the recovery because it led me to get out of bed, which was very hard. And it put me to have kind of a schedule. And so that was really helpful. I want to direct everybody to your Twitter where you give writing tips and then just general life tips with the hashtag Goldman tips. And I saw that Vulture has compiled all of the Goldman tips in one giant article. So if people want to go read them all. Yeah, I did that for one year and then Vulture put them all together. And they did a much better job than I did they put illustrations and they they grew

in themes and things so it came out really really great and I was I was really happy about that but that was that was something that that came from a combination of of coffee and and Mark Twain had said if you if you want to cheer somebody if you want to cheer yourself up, start by cheering someone else up, that that would make you feel better. And it's true, as a lot of what Twain says, he was a truly wise man. And that was really helpful. just the people were so, so appreciative. And, and it was the, the coffee was enabled me to get over the idea of, which is I, I did it for 366 tips.

And every day I would think, who are you to tell people how to do comedy? And, and the coffee would say, you're you're gary goman should you be giving these fuck yeah fuck yeah give these these so i i owe it to to coffee and mark twain that's a good combo yes unbeatable thank you so much gary we're such big fans of yours i'm glad you enjoyed it and and if anyone hasn't seen your special, it is so funny. Oh, it's life changing. Yeah.

Oh my God. It's so, there's so many great jokes in it. It's so fantastic. You never think you'll laugh so hard about someone's depression. Gary, thank you so much. If we ever get to do shows again, I'll come say hi in the dressing room before you're set. I would love it. I can't wait.

All right. That was our interview with Gary Gullman. Yeah. Thanks, Gar. We do have a fan question. This is from Steve M. Steve says, wondering if Mike can talk about, oh, this one's just for you. Oh.

I'll leave you and Steve alone. Wondering if Mike can talk about Max Weinberg a little. Oh. I'll leave you and Steve alone. Wondering if Mike can talk about Max Weinberg a little. Oh. How did he become the second banana character in sketches after Andy left? Did it just happen or was there a conscious decision that Conan needed someone to bounce off of? Was he up for it or did he have to be talked into being an on-screen character or coached? His on-screen character was absurd and wonderful. Oh, well well there you go

i know the answer to this question well first of all i should explain andy because for younger viewers it might be like wait andy left the show and who's max but back on late night with conor o'brien you know andy was the sidekick uh the way is now the band was led by max weinberg who was uh the drummer for Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band. Anyway, in 2000, Andy Richter left Late Night with Conan O'Brien to star in a sitcom, and he moved to L.A. And all the writers, we were so used, like, in all our comedy sketches, you know, you'd have Conan doing something and then Andy was kind of the foil or you'd advance the bit by involving Andy in it. And Andy had just left. So all eyes turned to Max Weinberg.

I mean, we used Max prior to that, but now he really became the main foil. You know, the old cliche is comedy in comes in threes a lot of the bits we would do would start with conan then we'd bounce to max and then we'd bounce to joel goddard our announcer and things would get crazier as we went in a sketch usually so joel goddard would get the craziest bits because he'd have the final beat, the joke or moment that would hopefully get you out of the sketch.

But so yes, we used Max a lot. And Max, I think Max loved being on the show. Yeah, I got the impression that he was very game for screen time. Sometimes we'd pitch something to him and he'd go, you know what? I don't want to do that. And I'd say, okay,

no problem. We'll ask LaBamba to do it. And then two minutes later, Max would be like, you know what? Turns out I thought I had an appointment. I'm available to do that. You know, because he liked being on the show.

So yes, there were things that we made him do that were against his better judgment. And I think would be against anyone's better judgment. But he did them. Thank God. You know what? He developed a kind of a comic character. We kind of discovered that less was more with Max.

So the more deadpan he was, it seemed the funnier and the better his bits would do. So we kind of just developed this deadpan persona for Max. That's it for our listener question portion. Please send more questions and more Max Weinberg questions

because there are other things to talk about with Max. If you guys have questions for us, please email us at insideconanpod at gmail.com or you could leave a voicemail. Sweeney's going to tell you the number now. Because we divvy up the jobs here. 323-209-5303. That's the phone number.

That's our show for the week. See you next week. We like you. Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast is hosted by Mike Sweeney and me, Jesse Gaskell. Produced by Jen Samples. Engineered and mixed by Will Becton. Supervising producers are Kevin Bartelt and Aaron Blair. Executive produced by Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco.

And Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Earwolf. Thanks to Jimmy Vivino for our theme music and interstitials. You can rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts. And of course, please subscribe and tell a friend to listen to Inside Conan on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, or whatever platform you like best. This has been a Team Coco production in association with earwolf