Inside Conan: An Important Hollywood Podcast - Jeff Ross

Episode Date: December 18, 2020

Conan’s Executive Producer Jeff Ross joins writers Mike Sweeney and Jessie Gaskell to talk about his time as a tour manager for Molly Hatchet, AC/DC, & Diana Ross, helping Lorne Michaels produce The Kids in the Hall on HBO, and the origin of Late Night with Conan O’Brien. Plus, Mike and Jessie answer a listener question about Clutch Cargo bits. Got a question for Inside Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone] and e-mail us at [e-mail] For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com

And now, it's time for Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. Welcome to Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. I popped my P, I'm sorry. It's not as bad as the Sibilant S's. I'm Mike Sweeney. I'm a writer on The Conan Show on TBS. I'm Jessie Gaskell.

I'm also a writer on The Conan Show. Cool. Wow, you must get stopped a lot on the street. And welcome back to Inside Conan. We have a great show for you today. We do. Our executive producer. Jeff Ross. Jeff Ross is going to Inside Conan. We have a great show for you today. We do. Our executive producer. Jeff Ross.

Jeff Ross is going to be along. It's great. He talks about kind of the Conan origin story. Late Night with Conan O'Brien. Yeah, it really kind of started with him, really. It was like. It did, yeah. Conan was just a twinkle in his eye.

He's had a fascinating career. I know. Crazy career before even getting to Late Night with Conan O'Brien, I think. I'm surprised he left that career for this. In the music business. Huge music icons. And then he veered into comedy. We're still writing for this show.

Yeah? You and I both have been writing for the show, in fact. Sure, you could throw me in there. I saw you send a heads up email. I did, on a bit that, you know, it got bumped. It's like, oh, we'll do this after we're back from the Christmas break. Yeah, I got one of those this week, too. Please, I was head writer.

I know how the game's played. Do you think that those are just going to the sketch graveyard? Yeah, I always assume I'm a child being told my pet has gone to live somewhere else. We actually did have too much stuff this week, though, because it's the last week before the holidays. Yes. There were all of these pre-taped bits that were backed up for weeks, and you just have to burn them all this week. That's often the case when we're up against a break coming up. There's not enough time.

Oh, yeah, the Doja Cat. That happened this week. Right. Conspiring to keep sketches off the show. In real life, Doja Cat mentions Andy Richter as a euphemism for the girth of a penis in the song Dick, which I don't really know what the whole song's about.

Have a few guesses. Yes. So that bumped a lot of comedy off and so it gets pushed over to the next day and and so here we are up against a break and all this great comedy it's like you have to use it up or else it doesn't roll over to the next fiscal year right exactly especially if it's holiday related yes let's get into our show yes we've got our executive producer senor jeff ross i thought of something because i know sweeney and i have had some experiences over the years right and you know and i was thinking about so what some of them were and uh oh great the

first one of course that comes to mind is when you did that prank on me when you remember i had that door oh yeah never got you back for it i don't know it was for my birthday there was like a bowling ball thing it was a thing where conan's office was on one end of the hall right they were both on the corners yes at night when the writers got bored and sometimes during the day they would ball actually i probably did it also we would ball down the hallway into the whatever door was there. And so my door had a lot of dents in it. But I don't know if that's the prank, Swains, was it?

Well, we would ball at the length of the building. Were there pins? No, the goal was to get it into Jeff's office at the end of the hallway. Correct. And it was pretty long. It was like 100 feet at least. Longer than an alley. Oh, my God.

It was like two or three at least longer than an alley oh my god it was like two or three bowling alleys yeah but there were these magnetic things that i have in my former office here right that hold the door open you know you press the button well what happened was it was secret santa oh right right and i got conan's assistant la Lori, who was new. So I was trying to think of stuff to do for her. So I got giant framed portraits of all Conan's previous assistants and hung those in her office. Oh, no. And then also. Did she like it?

She just stared at me. No, I think she liked it. I don't know. But yes, Conan had one of those mechanisms, too. I thought I would build something so she could close the door when she wanted privacy from Conan. Oh. So I figured out how to rewire it so that she would have a button on her desk and she could hit it and the door would close. And I crossed the wires and shorted out the motor.

That's right. That's right. I had to talk the cleaning lady or someone into opening the door to your office so i could elaine no i'm sure it was someone else so i could steal your motor after we get off this i'm calling elaine then i explained it to you the next day that i had to order a new motor for you don't be mad but i think you were mad i got a little mad i think i got a little mad anyway you know what i wanted to bring up? Yeah. You know what I wanted to bring up? Sure.

I was listening to Conan's podcast with Leguizamo. John Leguizamo, you're right. With John Leguizamo. Crazy legs. And they go off on the Jackie Mason thing. From the Ed Sullivan show? No, me. His imitation of me being Jackie Mason.

Oh, oh, oh, okay. I'm going to start revolting against that. You worked with John lee guzzamo right yes and he we know each other okay and so my name comes up and they start both imitating me yeah and and of course john goes johnny legs he goes yeah jeff does kind of sound like that and i'm like and i'm literally on a plane listening to the podcast and i'm going no no i don't sound like that well listeners, listeners will decide. Yes, listeners will decide whether I sound like Jackie Mason or not, if they even know who he is. Yeah, but Conan's been doing that impression of you for forever and ever and ever.

So your outrage is at John Leguizamo piling on. Pretty much. Pretty much. He didn't earn it. Well, has Conan really earned it? I guess so. I guess he has. I guess he has.

You know, true confession confession we may have done an impression of you on this show but don't worry no one's heard it i'm sure you have someone wrote in and asked well because i in the credits i'd say your name executive producer jeff ross oh and i just say it like that and and so that's become my impression of you that's better that's better i'll take that one sweene, do you remember the time? I think it was you, Sweens. We were on a plane flying to New York. Yes.

And you and I are sitting next to each other. Yes. So we're in the two seats here. And in the two seats on the other aisle in front of us was Conan and Giselle Bunchen. Oh, yeah. And Conan winds up sitting next to Gis giselle bunchen who's been on the show and he knows i guess knows her a little bit you know this pre-tom brady yes he was still in high school conan had a chance and it was a red eye so it was like it was nighttime it was like

10 30 at night correct oh wow i guess they chatted right she's on the aisle he's by the window remember swings yep there was a moment where they're chatting and then i guess they're done chatting and the plane takes off. And then she just goes to the flatbed thing to go to sleep. They're flying from LA to New York. After talking like five minutes, she was just like, good night. Yeah, it didn't go very far. And then all of a sudden, her thing goes flat.

So now he can look back at us because her seat's not in the way. And he just looks back at us. And as he's looking back at us, he seat's not in the way. And he just looks back at us. And as he's looking back at us, he pushes the button for this thing to recline. Right. He's staring at us as he reclines right next to her. In super slow motion. It was really funny. It was really funny.

We were howling. We were howling. She's never fallen asleep so fast on a plane before. She went that fast. She was in REM sleep by the time he was all the way back the word perfunctory comes to mind it was like five minute chat and like all right time for beauty sleep yeah that was fun that was fun it was a good one i guess we were still living in new york then obviously i think so i don't remember what that trip was for but man

we have been doing this a long time. Yeah. Well, you especially. I didn't start until a year and a half in. I am the grand old man of this place, although you're not far behind me, Sweeney. You're three months older than me, which I really appreciate.

That's correct. It keeps me going sometimes. Yeah. I think there's so many cool aspects to your career. Long before you met Conan, I know like Jesse's dying to hear about some stories. Because they're only hinted at, I think, about how you were a big rock and roll band road manager. Yes. Well, I don't know how big I was.

I know you're very modest about that. The truth of the matter was, I went to NYU and I was the chairman of like the concert committee, you know, at the Loeb Student Center at NYU. Right. And so I always wanted, I was interested in that. I wanted to do it. And I was basically, I have to call and I was the chairman of like the concert committee, you know, at the Loeb Student Center in NYU. Right. And so I always wanted, I was interested in that. I wanted to do it. And I was basically after college bartending for like a year or two, which is, by the way, the most fun job I've ever had. Yeah. Not a shot at my current job, which I love, but that was the most fun I ever had.

It was like in 1980. And nothing ain't like that anymore. Right. 1980 in New York City. Oh, man. What bar were you working at? It was called Central Falls. And it was one of like four restaurants in Soho at the time. It was before Soho was, you know, a thing. Oh, wow.

So I was bartending and somebody said to me, you know, you know how the business works. This band is looking for a tour accountant. I'm like, what does a tour accountant do? And they said, well, you just pretty much settle with the promoters and you handle the money and carry the cash. So I went on the road with a band called Molly Hatchet, of which nobody will know except maybe Sweeney's. And I spent six months on a tour bus with Molly Hatchet traveling across the country, mostly in the middle of the country. You know, it was a lot of Jack Daniels and guns and- Guns? All kinds of other things. yeah that guy was the whole thing was crazy and other substances that people were really into in those days i didn't know shit i was like 25 just trying to figure it all out you know i'm like the jew on the bus with

molly hatchett it was pretty funny oh boy i thought molly hatchett was a bible name i thought it was a a klezmer band no okay no they were a southern rock band in the vein of leonard skinner oh boy they had a hit called flirting with disaster okay which you guys can look up at some point and that's all they really had but they did some business and whatever and they needed because they were all out of their minds all the time they need somebody to take care of the money but anyway keep them alive basically after that ended acdc was looking for a tour account all right so now i'm on the road with acdc and that was like multiple days and cities and arenas i mean they're huge and that was fun and then they fired their tour manager yeah and they went jeff you're the tour manager

and i was like all right so wow i think it's it's probably more complicated now than it used to be in a way or maybe i just didn't realize it but But so now I was doing that for a while with them and they were good guys and they were great. Had you picked up what to do from working with the other guy they fired? Yeah. I mean, it's not, it's real.

It's more like logistical. Okay. I knew kind of what I was doing or at least I made it up as I went along. Yeah. I faked it. I'm still like, I'm still faking it. We all are.

Yeah. So now I'm the tour manager. And then that tour was coming to an end eventually. Yeah. But that was like a big time. No buses. Well, actually, there were buses because I think even to this day, a lot of crews. Right.

That was a bus part of time. A lot of crews still to this day. Remember, Swains, we did a bus on that tour. In 2010. Yeah. So now here, Diana Ross is looking for a tour manager. I remember going to either Phoenix or San Diego. For some reason, I think it was Phoenix.

And she's playing in the round in this big arena. It's like a big thing. It's like 20,000 people. And then afterwards, like, Miss Ross, we'll see you now. And I'm like this 26-year-old, maybe 25, whatever I was, kid. And the door opens. I just remember the room being all white. You know what I mean?

And she's wearing all white. It's heaven. And there's like a white love seat. And she's there she goes she goes you know she cuts on your face go sit down and i'm like i think i'm like gonna faint because it's just so crazy it's just it's just crazy do you know what i mean right a little surreal but by the way she's great and really fucking talented yeah a lot of ways yeah and it was always great to me and nice to me and great and nice and generous and uh-huh and then she always whenever i would move on in my career and i would run into her she would always like say i did it for you it was all me oh that's great and of course i say

yes and then whenever we have tracy or daughter on you know tracy yellow ross sure who i knew when like she was like a little girl then oh yeah and yeah. And so I always tell my mom when I see you and all that. It's kind of nice. She's nice. Yeah. Well, but to the bus story with Andy. Yes. So there's a tour in 2010.

So we're on the bus for about, I don't know, a couple of weeks. Remember we had a bus going down the East Coast, right? Yes, I do remember. I loved it. On that tour in 2010. It was fun. Yeah. And the one thing, and I knew this from my old days on the road.

Right. The bus driver would always say when there were new people on the bus who had not been on a tour bus before. Right. No, buddy takes a shit on the bus. Right. Right? That's the first thing they told us. is because those toilets, for whatever reason, maybe they're better 10 years later, can't handle things of volume,

things that are not liquid. They're not liquid. Anyway, something like that. I'm sleeping. I think we were all probably sleeping on the bus. All of a sudden, the bus stops, and I get woken up by the bus driver screaming

who took a shit on the bus and I wake up and I look down and there's there's water on the floor throughout the entire bus and so we're like oh and so I remember we're pulled over on the side of the room

and the bus driver is taking apart the toilet you remember the swedes oh i remember it now i i think i slept through the oh i'm such a sound sleeper and so the bus driver i'm just so glad i wasn't involved in it the bus driver is taking apart the toilet nobody Nobody's come forth. And all of a sudden, the bus driver goes, found it! And I'm like, what the fuck did he find? Yeah.

And it was either orange or lemon rinds or peels. Oh. And he was making drinks and throwing the peels in the toilet. Ah. And that's what overflowed the toilet. That was not what I expected.

Okay, that has a more acceptable ending. So, okay, so we left off with you going into television, Jeff. So I moved out to LA for three years in the 80s. And I did a bunch of shows. This is gonna make you laugh, Sweens. I think you knew this already, but you don't remember. For Ken Ehrlich. Ken Ehrlich.

The guy who I co-executed, produced the Emmys with and had a lovely experience. Yes. Doing that with him, if you remember. I remember very clearly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lovely experience. I did a bunch of shows for him. Yeah.

And his shows, he didn't like spending a lot of money on his shows. When he did a show of shows for him yeah and his shows he didn't like spending a lot of money on his shows when he did a show you had like five jobs right you were like the ad and you're like the stage manager and you were the associate producer and the production manager you had to do right it was a good education for me and then i did i was in la and i did a show for oh greg sills was doing the emmys the first time lauren did it or maybe the only time lauren did it i'm not even sure michaels okay he was doing this big stupid show at uh universal on the lot at spartacus square which i don't even know is there anymore it might be super the superstore now that's where they literally shot spartacus square oh and it was lauren's show yeah and greg didn't

have time to do because he was doing the emmy so he says can you do this and i'm thinking lauren michaels yeah sure i mean yeah of course i heard of him yeah so i did it and I guess he and I kind of hit it off so when that was over that debacle it was a bit of a debacle but when that was over I guess he liked me he calls me like five months later he says I have this pilot got picked up by HBO it's called the kids in the hall which I had no idea what it was

at the time and actually nobody did except people in Toronto and he said can you come up and help get it started because it got picked up to series at HBO. And I was like, yeah, sure. I remember getting on a plane when it was 80 degrees here in February and landing in Toronto when it's like 10 below and snowing. But I'm like, I'm only going to be there for two weeks.

I was living in Toronto for a year. Oh, wow. I wound up living there for a year. Yeah. And then Lawrence said, do you want to move back to New York? I had these other things or whatever. And so I wound up moving back to New York after a year, flying back and forth to Toronto a lot, taking care of them for like three, four years. And also I wound up being the guy in New York doing all the HBO, not all, but a lot of the HBO stand-up specials. Right.

And then there was the Letterman's retiring and Lauren needs to find the new late night host and lauren says to me i want you to produce it and i was like the show's replacing david letterman really and he goes yeah and i'm like okay and i remember producing a special with someone for someone who was a possible candidate for that show. It wasn't the best experience I ever had. And usually I get along with people relatively well. And this one famously didn't. I had to come out to LA for something I was shooting.

I can't remember what it was after that was over. And I met with Lauren. Lauren said, so you're going to produce a late night show, right? I said, well, it kind of depends who it is. What do you mean it depends who it is? So then we talked about who it might be. And he, at that point, really had no idea who it was going to be. But everyone at the time thought, at least in stand-up circles,

everyone assumed it was going to be a stand-up comic. Right. Yes. It was always the assumption. Yes. And then there was the famous thing where I was in LA and he, famous. I don't know how famous this really is. Famous in my mind.

Where he says, well, we're doing a showcase at the Improv tonight. Lauren said that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there was a, for all the possible hosts. Right. Of course, all men. Right. I think Colin Quinn was there.

I could go through the names. As soon as you may remember the names. I don't really remember who exactly was there. I think Nealon was there. I mean, it was a long time ago. And did they know that that's what this was for? Oh, everyone knew. Oh, yeah.

Everybody knew. I think like John Mulrooney, Alan Havy. Yeah. I think Colin maybe. I think. Yeah. I don't know if Jon Stewart, but I'm not sure. He might have been there.

Yeah. He might have been there. It was so long ago. But anyway, it was like, you know, it could have been 10, 12 comics. Right. What was the name of the restaurant across the street from the improv? The Mustache Cafe or something like that? That rings a bell.

Something like that. Whatever you say, I'll say it. Yes, it was the Mustache Cafe. I don't remember. I don't either. But there was a place across the street where you would go, right? Okay. All right.

And so we go there with all these NBC big wigs. And we're sitting there. And I'm'm sitting there going i can't believe this is actually happening because it was all so surreal and i knew at the time he had been talking to conan about being a writer producer on the thing or being involved somehow about being behind the camera right yes and had you met conan at that point no no no we had never met we had never met okay and i remember there not being any decisiveness on anyone's part on who was the candidate, who now was going to replace David Letterman. Yeah.

Based on doing five minutes of the improv. It was ridiculous. That seems like a silly way to try to pick a host to replace Letterman. It was ridiculous. It was ridiculous. Yeah. Oh, Meyer gets frustrated and goes, everybody, meet in my office tomorrow. And then Lorne turns to me and goes, can you come?

And I'm like, sure, I can come. The whole thing was so random and weird to me that this was even happening. It was just so crazy. Because we all revered Letterman and watched it all the time and how we all felt to people in that generation. Yeah. And also, I mean, everyone always maybe forgets now the time and you know how we all felt you know people in that generation yeah and also i mean

everyone always maybe forgets now that back then it was just the tonight show johnny carson all there was and letterman that's all there was basically and then and it was a huge show business thing oh yeah like you were saying before like who's gonna who wants that job in a way because it seemed like exactly it seemed like you're walking off the plank to try to follow Letterman, fill those shoes. So the next day I go to this meeting and all these people, Rick Ludwin's there, they're all there. Right. And I remember, okay, I remember very distinctly going through each name and everybody coming up with a reason why he wouldn't work. And I say he because they were all guys. I am almost positive there was not one woman in that showcase

there were no women i'm almost positive and rick ludwin who we all love right who was in charge of late night at mbc and actually is responsible for keeping seinfeld on the air when they wanted to cancel it right famously yes kept putting in tapes of paul provenza deafening silence on the other no no no. He's a comedian. Very funny comic. Yeah, yeah. Who actually used to open for Diana Ross.

Oh. That's how I knew him. Right. And he's a nice guy. Very nice, funny guy. Was he on the showcase the night before? No. I think he couldn't get there.

Got it. And so, Rick, I remember putting in tapes of Paul. Watch this guy. Right. tapes of watch this guy right and then all of a sudden somehow all my gets frustrated again because there are no answers to this problem right and literally i remember something along the lines of all my are saying something about conan not that it was his idea for him to host it it was lauren who definitely said something like, maybe Conan. Right. Or how about Conan in that meeting?

He was sitting right next to me. I remember this. And I'm like, who? And I knew who he was, but I'm like, okay. And actually, Lauren might have turned to me and went, how about Conan, who I'd never met? And I was like, sure. Right. I don't know. I never met him. Just get me met. And I was like, sure. Right. I don't know.

I never met him. Just get me out of this meeting. Yeah. Right. And then Omar goes, can we test them? And Lauren turns to me and goes, can we test them?

And I go, sure. Wow. So it's, it was like a, a brokering, a convention where it's deadlocked. Yeah.

And he literally was, and there's a third party candidate's deadlocked. Yeah. And he literally was. And there's a third party candidate. To Lauren's credit. Yeah. For whatever reasons, and I think we know what they are now, but Lauren saw the reasons. Right. He thought that it's a crazy idea, but it's not a bad, you know, it's an idea. It's something different.

It's a swing. You know, he knows he's a smart guy. He's a funny guy. He knows how funny he is. I will tell you one thing. Everybody will have a different version of this story. In that meeting, Lorne said it. That did happen.

That did happen. All right. And then I remember I get his number. I call Conan. He hears from Gavin, who was his agent at the time, Gavin Pallone. I remember I was staying at the Four Seasons Hotel in Beverly Hills. He lived near there. And he says, well, I'll meet you downstairs.

We'll meet and we'll talk about it. And I remember him. This is a story I actually have told, but there's like a concierge desk that a concierge doesn't really use. It's outside the gift shop area. It's just a desk that sits there. And I go in you know i know he's a tall red-headed guy right i've never met him and i go down there and he's sitting behind the desk and he sort of goes what do you think i might have said out loud this is so fucking crazy you know and then we talked about the test and who to book for and everything and then it became clear that they were talking to

shanley ah but what didn't become clear was that shanley didn't want to do it right because he knew he knew the grind guest hosted he had guest hosted i think hey i think larry sanders had been happening already maybe i'm not even sure i don't know we'd have to look it up that's what i'm trying to remember but he had he had guest hosted for johnny carson yes so he knew basically what the drill was right so i remember one day being back in new york in my office and you know sometimes you get like messages from people and you go something's wrong or something's right weird or because in those days you would get messages on little slips of paper like this like you know yeah yeah in those days while you were out and so i get back and my assistant hands me this pile of messages it's like it's like lauren

michaels don old meyer oh boy that one right and i'm looking at them and i go oh my god he in those days. While you were out. And so I get back and my assistant hands me this pile of messages. It's like, Lorne Michaels, Don Ulmeier, this one, that one. And I'm looking at them and I go, oh my God, he fucking got it. Okay,

so you shot the test. Oh yeah, we shot the test. It went well. Right. I remember at one point during the test, you know,

he had a script and he was doing really, really well with Mimi Rogers and I remember, I didn't know what to do. Yeah, what material was he doing? Well,

he was just interviewing her. Okay. But there was a script of like opening remarks and stuff, so i had sort of a script packet you know right i remember on the back i remember writing during mimi rogers i just because there was a break between mimi rogers and jason alexander i might have it backwards but they were the two test guests they were the two test guests within we had an audience right i remember writing on the back of the i didn't even know what to say to him but he was doing pretty

well so i just oh he's going up in the break yeah in the break yeah i wrote on this back of the script page cover you're killing uh-huh and i just shoved it in front of him and he looked at me and then he looked down and i walked away oh that was the right thing to write yeah and now you have to do it after every show. During every show. That's right. You've had to do it 5,000 times since. Wait, so can I ask between like Let's Test Conan and this test happening with a live audience and these two guests, how long did it take between you talking to Conan on the phone and the test? I think Conan will have a more accurate answer to this, but I would say it was two, three weeks. Okay.

Two weeks? Three weeks? Yeah. Something like that. It was definitely not a week it was longer than a week it's at least two weeks i think i'd prefer to have to do it the next day so you didn't have time to think about it because it just seems so intimidating it was surreal right it just it was just so crazy right you know how i was 35 at the time i guess i fly back to new york i'm back in new york for like a week or two and i go out for lunch or something i come back and i get handed this pile of messages and i just i'm really reading them looking at them don all my or michael's this one that one and i'm like fuck he got it oh my god oh boy and so then so then he calls me conan because the last time i had seen him when i left L.A. was after the test.

It was his 30th birthday. He had a party at his apartment. He invited me and I went. Anyway, I said goodbye to him and it was sort of like, well, that was fun. That was a fun, you know, whatever. Have a nice life. Hopefully our paths will cross again. Right.

And then two weeks later I was like, oh, my God. Wow. And so then we got into it. Then we got into it. That's basically that's basically the not the shortest version of the story but certainly not the longest wow wow but no you i mean you worked on conan before conan worked on conan well conan and i we we actually we both did i i i get dragged into the selection process thing yeah yeah but not really i mean i was just i was i was like a observer i was like an innocent bystander

kind of a non-voting delegate for sure i would just go sure absolutely we can do that absolutely yeah i've learned how to in my career just say yes and go figure it out later right you run out start crying and then figure it out yeah yeah and so you start the show and it's five days a week i mean it must have been i'm guessing a big adjustment from any, any job you had had prior to that. Well, yeah, because we didn't, none of us knew how to do it. Right. I was friends with more with, with Robert Morton, but producer of the old Letterman show, then he was gracious and helpful and generous, but still you have to do it. You know, you have to go through, you have to go through it because you think, you know, it started out as we're going to make a sketch show every

night, which I know you guys understand what I'm saying to go through it. Because you think, you know, it started out as we're going to make a sketch show every night. Right. Which I know you guys understand what I'm saying. And so it was all this crazy ambitious stuff every day. It was unbelievably. Ambitious. I mean, everyone who watched it was like, it was just packed with comedy. Which is why we were there late every night.

Right. You know, and it was just, it was just, we were, were we and you know every day we just kept our heads down thinking we're gonna get canceled that went on for right god it went on for a year probably you know longer maybe how did you handle were you worried stressing on your own behalf or was it more reacting to how conan was reacting to what was going on does that make sense well i always felt my job was kind of to try to protect him as best I could. Right. So you were the one reading the reviews.

Well, yeah. I think he read some early on. I think it's how he learned not to read anything about himself. Right. You'd have to ask him. I think that's probably what happened. But it wasn't protecting him from the reviews as much as just trying trying to keep him you know on the reservation and not lose his mind right you know the pressure of getting canceled every day and the rumors and just trying to get the work done and trying to keep the trains

running you know i i just felt it was my job to try to look if we if i can't protect him then there's no way it's going to work ever right Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. Got to keep telling him he's killing. Yeah. He was killing during the test. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not just telling how great he is. It's more like just not letting certain people influence it too much. Yeah.

Get too much in his head. Yeah. Yeah. And also not overwhelm him with work, even though that's hard to do protect him from he tends to go towards the the fire as opposed to avoid yeah but as i do as i do but yeah we became sort of friends and got closer and he started to trust me that i was trying to help him out right thing work and i think well it's 27 28 years later so i think it kind of worked yeah it was just and by the way it was you know everybody goes oh how could you you're always thinking you're getting canceled oh my god

it's so right our thing was just keep your head down and ignore the network just say yes and ignore them because they were in la and we were in new york and that made it easier because they weren't there all the time were they bugging you every day or like just giving notes nobody asked for like how there was a thing that i don't think we've talked about in many many years where they had a research company called the maggot group no i've never heard of this i think that's what they were called we'll look it up make sure i have it right but i'm pretty sure it's called the maggot group and they were based out of cedar rapids iowa oh boy yeah yeah. And they had them write up notes or a they're like a management

consulting kind of corporate thing, but do media things like news operations or. And so I would get these things, you would read them, I would bet you I have them somewhere in my office. Wow. They're like, not enough animals. But it's like that kind of thing, you know, like, what he's wearing, what his hair looks like. And that's the stuff where you can get your arms around. They're saying crazy shit like, I can't remember, but it's just like, are you fucking kidding me? Right. That's what the network's, that's what they're relying on?

So there was that. And then the thing that turned it around, it's never one thing, but we were working really hard and I thought we were starting to figure it out. And Tom Shales, who basically I think in his first review said Conan should probably die or something like that. Literally, I think if we found the review, it was something like that bad. It was not kind. Like a year later, a year and a half later, he was a tough cookie bad it was not kind like a year later a year and a half late a year and a half later he was he was a tough cookie yeah still around he wrote this like love letter like i was wrong yeah that yes it was unbelievable and then all of a sudden i'm not saying that changed everything i think back then the power of tv he was like the most important tv critic

in the country like frank Frank Rich was to Broadway. Exactly. I think so, yeah. So, I mean, you would know better than me. Yeah, no, he was. He was. He was a Washington Post guy. Right.

And he just wrote this love letter. And like I said, I was wrong. I didn't give it a chance. Right. I didn't give him a chance to figure it out. Yeah, when does that ever happen? Conan should live. He gave him his reprieve from the chamber.

But that's kind of when it turned around, and I'm sure that had plenty to do with it. We always ask our guests to give showbiz advice and lessons you've learned or advice you've got for people who want to pursue a career in showbiz. Do you have any advice that comes to mind? Work hard. Yeah.

Keep your head down. Don't listen to people that you don't want to listen to and just humor them and say, yep, I got it. And then do what you think is the right thing to do. I love that. That's it. I'll leave you with that.

Yes. Just say yes as you're planning to not do the thing. Correct. With a smile. Yes. Just say yes as you're planning to not do the thing. Correct. With a smile. Yes. As you're shaking your head, no. All right, great. Well, yeah, thank you so much, Jeff.

Thank you, Jeff. Thank you, guys. Anytime. This was actually fun. I was dreading it, and it was fun. To quote Conan, I feel like we barely scratched the surface. Nice one. And that was our executive producer, Jeff Ross.

We've got a fan question. Oh, my God. They've been pouring in. Like sands to the hourglass. Yes. This is a voicemail. Hey, guys. I just listened to the Robert Spiegel interview, the second one, and it's very interesting. Any interview he does is almost always pretty fascinating. He's one of the great comedy writers of the last generation or the last 30 years.

This is Robert Smigel. to know more about the Clutch Cargo bit. He talked about doing Quentin and how the approach he took with Quentin. I'd love to hear more about some of the other characters. He did Bob Dole, Bush, he did George Bush, number two. I mean, he did a lot of different characters.

He did John Kerry, which is hilarious, and Trump. He did Trump. It was really funny. Trump. I'd love to hear more about how he approached characters, of course, Schwarzenegger and so on. So that's it.

And keep up the good work. We love it. Okay. Bye. Thank you for that. Uh, voicemail. I've never heard George Bush.

Number two is a, is a good title. I like that. The sequel. Well, you asked about the clutch cargo which um you know briefly is we used to have uh deal with news items on late night by having a cut out of famous people's faces and then we'd have a performer's lips moving that's the only thing that would be moving on camera

and robert smigel didn't ended up doing most of the voices and one of the reasons for that is because he was just fantastic at it he really is great he would do impressions of people that were great but then he'd elevate them by making them more cartoonish right they weren't straight ahead impressions yeah because you know what we sometimes if he wasn't available we'd get we'd try to get other people to do clutch cargos. And they would do very good impressions of people. But there was like a spark. It just wasn't, it wouldn't catch fire.

And also, he has a stunning smile, which also helped. No, but he really knew how to make those bits work. To the point where if he was not available, if he was like, oh, he's in LA or we'd postpone a clutch until he was back. Oh, wow. Because we just learned selfishly it would do best if he was there. Well, can you go back a step and tell me the origin of the name Clutch Cargo was a... I believe it was a cartoon effect used on a kid's show in Chicago, is what I always heard. So, you know, they'd have a photo of someone, or it would be a cartoon of someone. But it was kind of low-tech animation. Yeah.

So the only thing that would move is they'd have an actual human being talking, you know, with a cutout. Which looks really creepy, because's a real human's lips. It's a little disturbing. And I feel like we leaned into the creepy factor to really show even more of the mouth. And like you said, Smigel used to use a lot of teeth. It was very toothy impressions. Yeah, like the caller mentioned Arnold, and that was... Arnold Schwarzenegger became a favorite for the writers to write. It became... I think Robert loved doing it. And he'd always put a little black piece of felt between his

middle teeth to create that Arnold gap, tooth gap. Oh, that's great. He would never cement it in too strongly so that halfway through the clutch, the gap would start floating around his mouth, like moving across, which was, you know, Robert knew that, okay, that's going to get a giant extra laugh. Yeah, yeah. Which it always did.

Yeah, he was really good about including the audience in the sort of production of the bit. Yes, yes. They were in on the joke. he was really good about including the audience in the sort of production of the bit yes yes they were in on the joke yeah the audience loved kind of seen behind the curtain he would literally be in front of the curtain so the audience could see this guy with his chin on a on a little chin rest and somehow his mouth was being put on the tv screen over con's head. But Arnold, actually, the way we started Arnold Clutch Cargo was, I think it was 2003 maybe. Arnold was going on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno,

and the rumor was he was going to announce he was running for governor. And we were all just like, I remember we were in the writer's room. We had just finished taping a show and we literally had a hanukkah miracle it was it was we had a writer sitting down in one of the edit rooms watching the feed of the tonight show because if arnold was going to run for governor we're like this is perfect for a clutch cargo we've got to run upstairs and ride a clutch cargo for the next day. And we're literally just sitting in my office waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting. And then all of a sudden, the rider comes off the elevator. He's like, it's a go. He's running. And that was it. And then-

And then he was elected governor. Then he was elected governor. As a writer on the show where you're just looking for new stuff, it was literally like, okay, we just found a rich vein of silver ore in our mind. Of ore, yes. And we're like, we can live off of this the next five or six years. Give a man an Arnold and he'll eat for a day. That's right. Oh, we were talking the other day about, remember Andre Dubichet, one of our writers?

Oh, the jingle all the way, yeah. It was his favorite Arnold line from A Clutch Cargo. Yes. Because Arnold would always end every clutch talking about Jingle All the Way being the greatest Christmas movie ever made. We did a Jingle All the Way bit on the show recently. Which was great. Because TBS had cut off the end of it and people were upset about it. So when one of our writers, Todd Levin, created the ending that people had missed and basically everyone dies and then

there's a terrible rap song. The whole thing's fantastic. And that bit was great. And that got us nostalgic about Arnold Clutches. What was the quote? I think you've got it. It was, give a man a jingle, and he'll jingle for a day. Teach a man to jingle, and he'll jingle all the way. I mean, I'm sorry, Sylvia Plath. There's a new great American poet. I can't remember which writer wrote it.

It might have been Andrew Weinberg. I'll have to investigate. It was either him or Michael Komen, I think. Yes. One of those guys. Well,

I think we have to end there because you can't heighten from that. Yeah. I think we're done talking about

clutch cargos for the day. But we still have room for, I think, two more listener questions. We have two more episodes of the season of this year. Right. The year that was 2020. So please call us. Our voicemail line is 323-209-5303.

But if you want to do it in a more modern fashion, you can choose email. Write us at insideconanpod at gmail.com. That's our show. Thanks for listening. We... Yes, yes. What is it? Go ahead. I feel like you have something else to say. Like... Yes.

Is there more? You. Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast, is hosted by Mike Sweeney and me, Jesse Gaskell. Produced by Jen Samples. Engineered and mixed by Will Becton. Supervising producers are Kevin Bartelt and Aaron Blair. Executive produced by Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco. And Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Earwolf.

Thanks to Jimmy Vivino for our theme music and interstitials. You can rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts. And of course, please subscribe and tell a friend to listen to Inside Conan on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, or whatever platform you like best. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.