Inside Conan: An Important Hollywood Podcast - Jena Friedman

Episode Date: October 4, 2019

Stand-up comedian Jena Friedman joins Conan writers Mike Sweeney and Jessie Gaskell to talk about her most recent Conan stand-up appearance dealing with true crime, why she wouldn’t be a comedian without her mother, her latest work in progress hour Miscarriage of Justice, her Adult Swim specials Soft Focus, and more.This episode is brought to you by CLR (www.clrbrands.com).Check out Jena Friedman’s most recent Conan appearance: https://youtu.be/wV-NcNwXqcACheck out Conan Without Borders: Greenland: https://teamcoco.com/greenlandCheck out Conan25: The Remotes: https://conan25.teamcoco.com/Got a question for Inside Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone] and e-mail us at [e-mail] For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com

And now, it's time for Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. Hi, I'm Mike Sweeney. I'm Jessie Gaskell. And we're writers on The Conan Show. We are. Yeah, we also host this podcast called Inside Conan. We really try to keep things Conan-centric in our lives. I have a Conan duvet cover.

Wow, I did not know that. So, we are here with you this week. It's on the eve of the Team Cocoa House tour, which is a big citywide comedy festival, basically. I think it's 10 cities, and Team Coco is, I will say lazily, taking over existing comedy clubs. Yeah. And just, they're slapping their name on it. Mm-hmm. Handing out some stickers. Handing out stickers. It possibly pins if they're really splurging on the high end.

But they've booked all these really great comics. Yeah, they're all, you know, Conan. People in the Conan family. Right. Who either performed on the show or maybe write for the show in some cases. Right, right. Or have lent Conan money. There's all different avenues to get booked for the Tim Coco house.

And yeah, so that's coming up this weekend. And to help celebrate that. Yes. And get the word out. Although I think it's already sold out, but maybe you could. Well, to get the word out. Scalp tickets. For the next one. We have a very special guest today.

We do. She's a comic who's performing in LA at the Hollywood Improv, Jenna Friedman. Hi, Jenna. Hi, thanks for having me. Thanks for being here. Welcome to Inside Conan. Have you ever wanted to go inside Conan? Oh, on a metaphorical level, sure. Any level. On a metaphorical?

Yeah, okay. Sure. Yeah, I mean, Conan's a legend, a living legend. The word legend covers... This isn't going to get back to him, by the way. No. He doesn't listen to this podcast. No, he doesn't.

So you can say anything you want. That's what I mean to say. Okay, good. All right, good. Good, good, good. And welcome to Los Angeles. Yeah, you're a New Yorker. Thank you.

I do identify as a New Yorker. You're wearing all black, so that's how we know that. This is like my lighter. It's like blackish gray. This is kind of like on an upbeat day. Yeah. And we're wearing red headsets and you were like no i brought my own black headset which i think yeah i well i got like

i'm doing a podcast once that probably could happen i probably could uh well so you i didn't did you no i made that up i mean i i that. But it also is something I could see people starting to carry around their own headphones. Because there are so many podcasts. Perform a lot. Right. And so many people doing this. Yes. That something's going to catch.

Some of the podcasts are just riffraff coming in off the street. So, yeah, you don't know what you're going to get. Soon people, you'll probably get your own headsets like for your sixth birthday. Yes. And just be expected to start podcasting in the second grade. Like a little podcast starter kit for kids. Yeah. Exactly, yes.

Like an easy bake oven. Instead of karaoke. Yeah. You can talk along to an old Marc Maron podcast. Build a podcast. Oh, that's cute. Yes. And marketable.

Copyright it right here on the air. There, you're covered. Kevin's doing it right now. Whoops, too late. So, Jenna, you had an incredible set on Conan a few weeks ago. Cool. I'm glad you think that. It was great.

Have you gotten good feedback on it? I have gotten good feedback. I mean, I read all the comments. People wonder why. You do? I read all of them. Oh, no. Oh, you do?

I do. Well, I have like a hypercritical Jewish mother, so it just feels like a hug. She's one of the commenters. She does like three quarters of them. She writes for incels. She's one of the commenters. She's like an incel. She writes for incels. That's her hobby. That's how she makes money. So she set you up to be open to criticism.

Completely. Wow, that's a good skill. I think so. And your audience ultimately is your critic. And I love that set. And I knew that it was going to be a little too dark for the room. But then it did have a second life online, which I appreciated.

And I think it really was kind of directed. I'm glad it felt a little more universal, but it really was speaking to like a specific audience of like, you know, women and true crime junkies. And so, you know, it's always, I also think it's interesting when people just expect that comedy has to be certain people, not to name names, but just a certain demographic just expects that, like, comedy just has to be for them. And I think that with all the platforms now, like, you're getting to see so much comedy and some things are for you, some things are for someone else. Yeah.

I think that's great. And you know what? A lot of comics don't even, like, are judgmental about comics who do stuff different from them. It's like, oh, that's, you know, what they're doing isn't cool. It's ridiculous. Right. Everyone thinks what they're doing is the only way. Right. And I like that there's obviously all a great, great variety of types of comedy.

But your set was – oh, go ahead. Yeah, I mean, I think the point you're making is great. I remember reading in Tina Fey's autobiography that there were sketches they'd pitch for SNL when Seth Meyers was the head writer. And the men in the room would just not get it, and that was why they didn't laugh. It wasn't because it wasn't funny. They just didn't understand the premise of it. So it was like that really opened up for me. Oh, sometimes people aren't laughing,

not because they hate this material, but just because it doesn't, they don't really understand it. Yeah, we have this idea that comedy is universal, but it's a lot more like, it's not like what's funny. It's like, what's funny to you? You know, like it's a little bit like it's not like what's funny it's like what's funny to you you know like it's a little bit more my favorite comedy at least I think like slapstick

and broad comedy is more universal yeah but I like kind of specific comedy even if it's not specifically for me I kind of like seeing something that's a little bit more specific but it also is I mean you know, your set was about true crime and the like, the dearth of or not dearth, the wealth of podcasts and shows. Yeah, I had to cut that part short. I had like 20

others that I was going to name. Were those all real? They're all real. Oh, really? I thought you started making up. No, the only one I made up was the This American Death because that was the joke was that it's going to be my podcast. Yeah. Right. So the Down South one is real?

What was the other one? Southern Fried True Crime. Oh, my God. That's a real one. Okay. White Wine and Crime, was that one? Wine and Crime. White Wine and Crime.

Crime and Grits. Wow. Do you listen to a lot of that? I went on a road trip a couple months ago, and my boyfriend and I listened to a bunch of them because it was just like such, you know, you're in a car for 30 hours. And so we listened to like Dirty John and Dr. Death and Man in the Window is so scary. I had to stop listening because it was just, it's like about the Golden State Killer and it's just too scary. Okay. I didn't, yeah, I haven't heard that one. That's what it's about.

Yeah, I listened to, I think, a different Golden State Killer podcast. It's so scary. And then it's like there are all these economies and there's like a Comic-Con for, not Comic-Con, but like a murder con or whatever. Like there's all this money going into it. And it makes you wonder like how ethical is it, you know? And in some, like it's easy to just kind of criticize it, which I think I do.

But I also, it does, I read one article, I think it was in the Washington Post, just about how it does like give you know the family of victims kind of a sense of hope and keeping their stories alive and when they can actually track down killers it's like an immense sense of justice but then you also kind of wonder like as we fetishize it and as we market it is it like inspiring copycats or just like our national obsession with like dead white women? Like how is that? This is a longer conversation, but I have this hour show called Miscarriage of Justice,

and I kind of try to think about like how, you know, does it make it harder for us to see like a woman in the White House because like every woman on TV is dead? And in like soft focus and yeah, there's always those slow push photos where you're like, oh no, I know she's going to die. Is that a live show?

Miscarriage of Justice? Yeah, I just did it in the Edinburgh Fringe. The crime segment actually is part of that show. Oh, cool. Yeah, so it's like this hour show that I developed in August at the Edinburgh Fringe, and it's about all this kind of stuff. Do you perform in Europe?

Just that, like, you've been at Edinburgh before. Is that your times in Europe, or have you performed, like, in London, you know, in different countries? Yeah, I've done a bunch of stuff in London. I was in Dublin and Kilkenny in Ireland this past summer.

And then Edinburgh, as I guess they pronounce it. I've done stuff in like Paris and Berlin. I like, I mean, when it's in those countries, like you're performing for like an expat audience a lot of times. You know, a lot of people speak English. Yeah, I was wondering how to, because you do a lot of political comedy, and does that translate? It translates more in the UK. That's why I thought you might have headed to Europe.

Yeah, but not as much in Europe. In Germany, I remember doing a show in Berlin, and it was the English speaking night at the Kookaburra Comedy Club, and the German audiences would just laugh because they wanted everyone at their table to think they spoke English.

So you could just pause and they would like laugh when you paused. I would take it. Yeah. Laughs are laughs. I mean, Germans aren't known for being good laughers. I'm just imagining cabaret. Right?

Like you're in that room. Well, we're there. Yeah. You don't have to imagine it. I'm just going toaret. Right? Like you're in that room. Well, we're there. Yeah. You don't have to imagine it. I could just go to Washington, D.C. right now. So in New York, what kind of venues do you perform in? Anywhere that'll have me. I love the Comedy Store.

Sorry, the Comedy Cellar. Oops. Sorry, Estee. I love the Comedy Cellar in New York. But also there's like such a very healthy alt scene and there are tons of rooms all the time in Brooklyn and the city and in Queens. I've even performed in Staten Island. Wow.

Yeah, but there are so many spaces. I know. So just wherever. But one of the best clubs in the world, I would say, is the Comedy Cellar. Yeah, Cellars. Yeah. Great. And it used to.

I don't know if it still does. It gets people from all over. A lot of people from Europe and all over the world. Yeah. Well, it's that combination of like it gets tourists, but they're hip. So a lot of other clubs, sometimes you'll end up getting like a tourist audience. You don't know if they even really speak english or like if they've seen comedy before but the seller still manages to be a club and have an audience that is like primed for comedy and you can i mean they don't like it's not like

it's not as cool as performing in you know like a random little show in brooklyn where you can take risks and stuff like they kind of want you to do your best material, but the audience is still pretty hip, surprisingly. Well, that's good. Yeah. Yeah. I guess you don't do a lot of Jersey bar gigs, I'm guessing. I mean, I started in Chicago and I did a ton of the clubs.

So I did start like doing a lot of clubs. Like two drink minimum clubs. Yeah. And I did start doing a lot of clubs. Like two drink minimum clubs. Yeah. And I think that, I don't know, it was never something I really enjoyed. Because if you're a 20-something kid and you're performing to 50-year-old married couples in Elgin, nothing against Elgin, Illinois or whatever.

But it's just like, and you know what makes them laugh. And it's not necessarily overlapping with what you find funny. And so I would like do shows I'd like feature or host. And then I kind of get sad after, cause it wasn't like I was getting to do the stuff I found funny. They, a lot of dick jokes they would really like, but I also think now because of like the quote unquote comedy boom and the fact that there's so much comedy, I think people who watch it are just more literate in comedy now because they get to see so much. So I think a lot of people coming to the clubs are comedy fans, which are so much more fun to perform for.

You do raise a really good point. I'm really interested in how do you keep a good like of your own voice and what you think is funny when you're, I mean, maybe just when you were starting out, how did you find the confidence to say, no, I know that this material is funny, even if it's not getting laughs from this particular audience? I mean, it probably wasn't funny. You just kind of like learn as you go and you keep doing it. There's a little bit of a level of masochism of just like, you keep going and you go and you go. And then like, uh, if one thing isn't working,

you kind of, I was making short films and stuff. I had a, one of my first kind of things that, um, people saw was a web series I did that was making in front of the New York time times wedding videos about a woman. That's great.

In love with a serial killer. So I made a whole web series and then we were trying to sell it as a film. But that kind of. You could sell it as a true crime show now. Right. Well, he's not. It's not about him. It's really about her and a metaphor for like love and relationships and like what you're willing to put up with when you meet someone you love, at least the film version.

But that was like a thing where it's like, even if I feel like, even if the standup I was doing at that time wasn't exactly what I wanted to be doing, I was able to kind of find other ways to put stuff out there that I found funny. So that would be like, you'd show the videos during your show? No, no. It it just went it was just something i made online that like went viral and that kind of stuff was like oh maybe i should keep doing this right right yeah so you know yeah so again like you said the internet kind of gave you the audience the audience found you online i think so yeah and it definitely helped me get

my first couple jobs jobs like 2005. No, what was it? 2007, 8 is when I started making videos online. And then I got. Which is pretty early for that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that definitely kind of, I think, you know, before now where we're worried about

social media destroying democracy, which it is, there was a time where the internet felt very democratizing. Yes. And that like kind of voices who would have a harder time getting in were able to get in because of the internet. Mm-hmm. That's a great way to kind of reverse engineer finding an audience, you know, and then when you start doing comedy, I think.

Although, was there a way to connect the people you were attracting with the videos to then when you were doing stand-up like yeah did people start coming to your show specifically because they'd seen the videos i mean kind of my fans are like they're it's funny because they're not like like, rabid. They're, like, people, now they're, like, our age. Yeah. And they're just kind of like, you know, I mean, yeah, I don't, I, my fans are very low key. Who wants rabid fans? I know. Like, I think, like, someone quietly just goes, yeah, I really, I think you're good.

It's like, oh, thank you. Yeah, people are going to leave you alone in public. Yes. Yeah. it's like oh thank you yeah people are going to leave you alone in public yes yeah but then the problem is those people aren't going to go like they're not going to make an account to go comment on somewhere but the people who do comment are are going to be trolls your mother right or your mom no is your mom is she a fan of your stand-up and she has criticisms within your stand-up act or is she give you a hard time about the whole shooting match? I mean, I think she's just funny and she doesn't think. I feel bad talking about her because she'll definitely listen to this.

I know moms have Google Alerts set with her name. Yes, definitely. She's very funny. She could have been a comedian, you know, in her own time. She could have been a comedian you know in her own time she could have been a mrs mazel well she's not that old but she but yeah she's funny um well i think she'll like all of this so far so good i don't know she always thinks i should be like an agent and i'm like you don't understand how offensive that is oh my god nothing against agents but like you know I've been doing comedy for 13 years

and successfully so it's not like yeah I mean you know but that's what it always is I don't think I would be a comedian if it weren't for her that's true you kind of need that person to just not believe in you

yeah so that you keep going back there's total love there. Right. The empty well of validation that always needs filling. Yeah. Would she give it up for you, like when you were a kid and you thought you were being funny? I never did comedy.

No, I was always awkward. Well, my sister was funny, and she's a banker now. And I was just kind of like... So she peaked too early. Yeah, yeah. And I was just kind of dark and weird. And my dad really was cool. He would really feed into that and buy me.

I remember he bought me this comic book called The Big Book of Death. And every chapter was like a different way to die. How old were you? Like seven or eight. Wow. Yeah. Awesome. Is that book still?

I want that book. I know. Yeah. They had Is that book still? I want that book. I know. Yeah, they had like, I remember Typhoid Mary had her, there was like a disease chapter, and I was like obsessed with Typhoid Mary. Yeah. No, infectious diseases are cholera of typhoid. That is a good one. Oh, yeah.

I don't know. I don't know if I'd recognize her. I guess if she was in stage 3 of typhoid the whole thing was that she was like a carrier so she never actually got sick she was asymptomatic and that's how she was able to

she would work as a cook or whatever and she'd get everybody sick and then they kept finding her and making her leave those jobs and then I think they tried to just like relegate her. Typhoid Mary. Yeah, Typhoid Mary just like didn't know when to quit. Everybody was like, you got to get away.

And then she was like, well, what if I just serve food to as many kids as humanly possible? I won't cough on it this time. You'd think the nickname would have tipped people off. Yeah. No, no, no. So when did you start thinking that you could do comedy professionally because that's kind of a big leap to take i mean even now like the majority of the like my income is more from like writing and um producing comedy than actually like stand up. Like I, I've been doing stand up forever.

The first time I did my own hour show was a show called American cunt. Can I say cunt? Yeah. Yeah. You just did. I just did. That's how I sneak it in. But yeah,

that was like a political hour of comedy that we made on a CISO produced it. Rest in peace. Oh yeah. And this is the first time someone said cunt on the show. I think that's true. That is a nice little, we should have a little

sound effect. Yes. Something to celebrate. Yeah. Or maybe in the description. I mean, it's a lovely word. It's a term of endearment

in the UK. It is, that's true. It's much more forgiving in the UK. Yeah. Yeah. It's so much less, and I talked about this in the show, but I remember it was like right when Hillary was running and like Clinton was such a more offensive C word to most Americans than cunt.

And like crazy is another word that's so much more insidious than cunt. And we always think cunt is the worst word, but it's not. Well, it's only how it's, I mean, you know. It's all about context. It is. It is about context. It is. It is about context. Crazy gets, yes, crazy is kind of a short term. Right, only women get called crazy.

Crazy is the worst because like if I call someone. It dismisses someone immediately. Exactly. And if you call someone a cunt, then it reflects on you, the person who says it. Right. But then if you call someone crazy, that word like sticks with them and like it's really yeah and crazy can just mean like uh i

don't know don't take her seriously don't hire her yeah right so crazy cunt i guess cancels out yeah yeah crazy cunt would just be like oh oh, you're the problem, the person who said that. Yeah. Yeah, that's like an overstepping. It oversteps. Yeah. I feel bad. I said it. No, you said it in the right context.

Thank you. You didn't actually call anyone out. Thank you very much. Thank you for the footnote. Yeah. No, it's fine. I'll take it. But yeah, so I did that.

And that was like my first hour show. And then this one hopefully will be my second. And then having the stand-up. The Miscarriage of Justice? Yeah. And then, you know, JP and Conan just putting my stuff on TV. That's the only time I've ever had my stand-up on late night. Oh, is that true?

Yes. That's crazy. I didn't know that. Yeah. You had so many great jokes on this set, though. You had the one about the girlfriend of Ted Bundy. Oh, I know. And everyone goes, oh, she everyone goes oh she's crazy she's crazy

and you're like well she's a woman a single woman dating in her 30s which I mean that was a great set you did great you were talking about it doing better online but you did I thought it did really well oh the only thing I felt like the audience didn't get

your Aziz impression I know because I didn't tell it too well and I wasn't I think they just didn't get it yeah no impression. I know, because I didn't tell it too well, and I wasn't allowed. I think they just didn't get it. Well, I just didn't want to. Yeah, no, that totally went over everyone's head. But some jokes are just for comedians. Yeah. And that was definitely one of them.

I like that. Has anyone said anything about that? I mean, no blowback. No. Yeah. Because it's right on the line. It is. And I didn't say the tag in the joke, which I wasn't used to doing the joke without that tag.

Like, that's my impression of Aziz. But, you know, it's fine. If you get it, you get it. And if you don't, yeah. And if you don't, you don't. Now, did you not do that when you go over the— It's stuff that you just kind of— On your own.

Yeah. It's not like JP said out. Yeah, no. I just didn't want to stir the pot too much. Right. They're so nice to me, and they let me do enough. And it's also kind of fun to have some lines out there where you just kind of let it hang. Right.

But especially, you know, on the—yeah. And, like, the fact that they let the Epstein stuff stay in, that was really fun. I didn't think that that was going to happen. I wrote that one line. Yeah, I mean, he's dead now, so he can't. Yeah. Is he? No, I wrote the one.

I like that angle. The line. What I love to see on right now. Yeah. Go ahead. Sorry. No, it's, well, the thing about, it's not like he killed himself. I was like, I just said that to JP a couple minutes before I went on stage

because I knew that they were going to groan at that. And I'm like, what's that next line? And so I never workshopped that one. So it came out, I think, a little harsh too. Do you think that's going to be a permanent part of that set now? Oh, yeah. No, I'll say if it makes you guys feel better, he didn't kill himself. Okay.

That's how I would change it. Yeah. No, I love hearing how something gets workshopped. I mean, late night sets are so just down to the word and the pause. And it's so... Because you're operating within a five minute... Within a five minute time frame. And also I had done the set in the UK so much, but I had only done it a couple times in America when I got, when I found out that I was doing it.

And so the timing, I just kept finding new things. And like the last set that I did, I had the timing so down. But the set, the different crowds, the timing would change. Yeah. Because the set is so specific. So if a crowd doesn't really – it was an interesting set, and I was really excited that they let me do it. That is interesting. So you had just been back in the U.S. a couple of weeks, I guess?

Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. And did you know – were the audiences that dramatically different? Well, I think when I was doing the true crime stuff, when I started to do it in the UK, it was interesting because I've always found that audiences, British audiences in particular, are darker than we are in America, just more morbid. Right. But then that true crime stuff was hitting harder in America.

Right. Because in the past couple- Because we have so such a weird traumatic thing happen with our country that I think we've almost outpaced them in how kind of sad and dark we've gotten. So I had to like kind of be a little bit more physical with the material when I was doing in the UK to sell it if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, you had more slip and falls. Yeah, and like at one point when I was doing the impression

of like a live woman breathing, it was like really all over the place. Which is like not how my comedy normally is. You said that you read the comments online. Do you find, I mean, I already know the answer to this question, but doing feminist comedy, do you find that there are will be a troll's nest or something that will find you and then come after you?

I totally do. It's a lot of like alt-right and silly types, but they never make fun of my looks, which I'm like, that's progress. Well, but you're very attractive. Maybe you should date me. Yeah, I don't know if, yeah's just just don't comment on them which is nice yeah it's like a it's maybe it's like a privilege of having kind of like a neutral vibe you know um but yeah uh yeah no they're all fine. It's all, it doesn't really bother me. It doesn't affect you. Yeah.

I mean, that's amazing. I mean, how did you get to that? You just, that's from your childhood. I also played, I was an athlete growing up. I played tennis singles, and it was really cutthroat, and you're just kind of out there on the court yourself. And with comedy, it's like, you know, you, the critic is the audience. Like, it's very democratizing.

You know what people think when you do it. And when you've done a show enough, you just kind of know what works. And also in this moment, there's just so much noise and a lot of people talking. And I don't know if you guys have heard about the alleged civil war in comedy. It's so silly. Well, now Todd Phillips took a side today. He did? He did.

It was so dumb. What side is he on? He said, I stopped doing, why am I doing Impression of the Force? I don't know. I don't know what he says. He said he stopped doing comedy because of the woke culture or something. He said woke culture killed comedy, and so he had to go into drama. Comedy evolves. Comedy evolves.

Everything evolves. Yes. You know, it's definitely harder to get it right now because there are so many voices and so much cool things happening in terms of progress. So there's a more level playing field. Yeah. And that's upsetting to some people. Yeah, you put it perfectly. Yeah, I mean, that's just always been the case that, you know, if entertainers have to think about the changing market and cater to that sometimes, and that's always happened. It's just now, maybe it's adversely affecting straight white men more than other people.

And they're still getting paid. Yeah. No, I know. He's still making movies. He's still making the best movie. Like, he's still getting to make, like, DC comic movies. Right. Yeah, no, I mean, it used to be there were literally

were just old school comedy clubs. Like, the alt scene didn't even start till the early 90s. And before that... But like Lenny Bruce would be like an alt comic. Right, that's true. That's true. But I just mean like in New York City, there were just very kind of monolithic comics

and the same comics were... And you probably had bookers who you had to pass with to get stage time. And then now there's so many places you can get up. Right. And I think once those other clubs start opening down on the Lower East Side and then popping up all over town, just a whole new, it attracted a whole different audience, much, I think, sharper audience. College educated.

Well, and then you had sharper comedians. It was kind of a symbiotic thing, but it definitely created this whole new line of comedy. But there's also this thing we still don't really talk about too much, which is like all the economics of it. Like I, I mean, I've been doing standup longer than almost anything I've been doing comedically, but I like, I've made money writing for people and working for other people. Like I think if you are going to do the type of standup that I'm at least trying to do, like it's not, it's not like the

most marketable type of standup. Well, even, I mean, for most, I think probably it's such a small percentage of stand-ups that actually make their living that way anyway. I mean, that's like you have to be in the 0.01% of touring comics, and you have to like that lifestyle. But I would think having a more unique voice, obviously, in the long run, seems like the great way. I think most comics would be very envious of that, of just having a unique voice that you can go, oh, there's not a lot of other people like you, obviously, is preferable.

The money's going to come. I'm a multi-zillionaire by next year. No, but that's, I mean, the goal is, you know, to just be able to kind of keep making things that say things and like saying things in a funny way that people appreciate. That is what makes me happy, for sure, even though I sound so monotone. It was so satisfying, like the fact that Conan and JP let me do that set. It was so, I was so excited because it's something I've been thinking about so much. Yeah. And same with the other set after Charlottesville. I was like so distraught to be able to channel it into comedy and then do it on Conan.

It felt like very special. Oh, good. Yeah. That's great. And they were both, well, the Charlottesville one was especially timely. Well, but they're also so funny. I mean, I think you have a really rare gift of being able to do stuff that is both, you know, good social commentary, but also it just stands on its own comedic merit, which I think some people have a hard time with that balance. Oh, yeah. that balance um like there's a lot of you know people who do or maybe it's just on twitter that

i tweets i read but like people whose comedy is mostly stuff that you agree with that you're going to clap for because you're like that's a good point right tell that to maga 41 but how do you do you feel um i mean i don know, do you have advice or like how do you kind of find a mix of, okay, being funny without sacrificing your sort of point of view? Or like how do those things get shaped, I guess? I think just from years and years of doing it and watching it, you know, like I, when I was making my first special, I just kind of like binged on Bill Hicks and Carlin and Lenny Bruce and a bunch of other comedians. I mean, even Sarah Silverman is one of my favorite comics ever, and I think she does it so well. Dick Gregory, just kind of watching comedians that you admire and see how they do what they do. And then, you know, you just kind of also not being afraid to not get the things

your peers are getting and to just keep doing what you're doing. And if you don't, I remember a friend of mine, Mike DiStefano, who passed away a little while ago, one of the funniest comedians I've ever met. He was like, don't be in a hurry to get your comedy on late night because when you get it on late night, like the later you get it, the better it'll be. And he talked about how like Lisa Lampanelli didn't kind of break until later. And then when she did, you could just see this like fully formed powerhouse. Yeah. And so I always kind of held on to that.

And my first set on late night was Conan in 2018. I had been doing comedy for like 12 years by then. And so, yeah, I think it's just kind of sticking to what you find funny and not worrying about other people. And it's so hard because my first six years, if you were to tell me, hey, give it another six years and then you'll get on late night. I'd be like, what? That is really good advice. It's hard to know that, oh yes, if you keep doing it, you're going to just get better and better, but it's so incremental.

It's so incremental. And it's also not just standup. Like I think now, you know, writing's really important, producing, directing your own stuff. Like, that web series, I directed and I wrote it and I produced it all on my own. And it was, like, a good, like, proof of concept for other things. And the Daily Show job I got because I had videos that I made on my own online. And so that is another piece of advice. Because you were a writer on the Daily Show. A field producer.

Oh, okay. But I was basically, we were writing and directing our own segments. So you did like the segments where they go, yes, exactly. Yeah. And I actually had one piece that Asif Manvi was in that was like cited in a court case to like overturn racist voter ID laws. And it was one of the most viewed pieces of all time. Exactly what your goal was. I mean, it was totally the most exciting job. That

job was so cool. Yeah, that sounds, I mean, especially satisfying if you're able to be kind of, I don't know, helping. Yeah. It feels like a bigger than just entertainment. It really did. And that was, I mean,

I have my own little project on Adult Swim, but so much of what I learned at The Daily Show kind of helped me do these pieces. Did they throw you right in the pool on The Daily Show? Yeah. Wow. producing. And I remember specifically early on, I did one segment about like the sequester cuts, and it was about how like all of this money going towards like food and poverty would get cut. And so we had to go to like a soup kitchen. And I remember like a guy was eating and I had to get him out of the shot, but I couldn't, I didn't know how to tell him to, I didn't know how to tell him

to get out of the shot. I just felt like bad. And so that job kind of helped me be like, not ruthless, but just really learn how to like get the coverage you need. Right. Quietly assertive. Quietly assertive. And like in the piece with the guy with the voter ID thing, this guy actually got fired from working. He was working at a voting precinct in Asheville, North Carolina. And he said some crazy stuff in our segment and actually got fired. But we showed up and he didn't want to be in the segment when I showed up.

And I had to like charm him into being part of the segment. And how do you, do you, is it like you're reassuring them that they're, you know, gonna look great? No, I never lie to people. I try not to. I try not to lie. Or you tell them that it's going to be funny. It depends. If people, you know, there's a project.

It depends. So I try to be as honest as I can and not to take people out of context, definitely when they're on camera. And, you know, that guy didn't regret anything that he said in the piece. And so that's cool. Yeah. That is tough. You just give them enough rope to hang themselves with. Kind of, you know.

I mean, the stuff we got, they're coming on The Daily Show. They knew what they were getting. Yeah. Everyone who has been in Soft Focus so far, it seems. Well, yeah, we have to talk about that. Been into it. Soft Focus is your adult swim show. Two specials

we have another one we're doing oh that's great oh great I don't think it's been announced but we're doing another one but the guests you have on are unbelievable

I don't like how did you book John McAfee I can't you know talk about how the sausage is made okay I watched that interview

which I loved and I you're really funny in it but you're also totally unflappable and pretty fearless. Oh, he's an insane person. It was a tricky one. And the next one, I'm trying to find somebody who's pretty, pretty, pretty controversial. And it's tough because I've been lucky so far, but people could get upset about the stuff I put out, too. Like, I'm just kind of bracing myself for it. But with McAfee, he did have, like, an allegation of sexual assault, so I had to bring that

up. Right. And he is running for president, so that's why I felt like he was fair game. But it is always tricky. Well, he seems to want to promote himself. Yeah, and I don't— So that makes sense. Yeah, he seemed to be wallowing. Yeah. He likes having

the press, even if it's bad. But, but, but I think you have a great approach where you're pretty very straightforward and you, at least in the final piece, you seem very straightforward and very straight up with people. And I think. Yeah. It doesn't seem like you're trying to put one over. Exactly. Well, because even if I don. So I don't think anyone will be getting mad. Just wait. I think, I also think I can't get away with that. Like, I interviewed Ken Kratz from Making a Murderer. Yeah.

And he's a creepy dude. And there were, like, edits. And I edit all my own interviews because it's really the only way that I can. I mean, I'll work with like an editor but I I'm like I weigh in on every little moment because the comedy is so specific um that I really just need to kind of be a part of the process um yeah because it's all about even just like how long the pause is it's gonna be a laugh but that with that Ken Kratz interview there were moments where I was like oh my god he looks so much more likable than is, it's going to be a laugh. But with that Ken Kratz interview, there were moments where I was like, oh, my God, he looks so much more likable than me. And it's like, how is that possible?

This guy is awful. But I also think, I do think with women, like, people, we kind of, when people first see us, immediately, like, there are all these cultural stereotypes and things that they have to process before we open our mouths. Like, what we look like, we're we're never like neutral even i made that comment about kind of looking neutral as a female but there's always like do i like her does she come across like a bitch is she too well dressed is she too slumpy is she too sexy is she not sexy enough yeah it's like everything's framed by her looks relationship to you and and it's all this stuff that culturally we have to just kind of unpack in our heads before someone even opens their mouth and and it's the same thing with on camera like if i'm interviewing someone i just kind of i think after doing this for so long i have a sense of like what i can get away with

because one little slip and you know you're they just hate you. So I think the older I get, the better it is because I'll just have more vulnerability. But you're not ever really like an underdog. Or people don't inherently, I think in our culture, really root for women. But that's my own. Maybe even me saying that is going to get somebody angry. So I don't know. I'm angry. Yeah, the series is really incredible.

And was that the first time that you'd kind of taken that role of being the correspondent? Because you'd produced those. No, I was doing that before The Daily Show. I did an interview. It's super weird, but it's online still with the Rent is Too Damn High guy. Oh, yeah. And he was so nice. Also a presidential candidate. Yeah, and so insane.

And he talked the whole time. The only time I could get him to focus was when I kind of flirted with him, which is so bad. But then he lightened up and was talking about all these weird things. It was the only time I could get him to not just kind of be crazily ranting when I kind of connected with him and then he talked about having like a body chart where he likes to track women's moles and it was super weird but funny and I got to the weird part yeah but that was like one of the first ones I did and then Ken Kratz is another one and I talked to this guy who named Dan Perino who was like trying to find a girlfriend in New York so he was posting signs all around town and then Vice had interviewed him and he was like talking about how

he didn't want any heavyset women and he didn't want any women over 38 and he had all these standards yeah and I had to talk to him and so that was pretty funny yeah but then that was another one where he was kind of like mentally ill and like I had to edit it to make him, you know. To not feel sorry for him. To not feel sorry for him. Right. That's a question I had watching your interviews. You're so calm and cool with people who may have mental issues.

I'm wondering if, you don't have to talk about this, but if that's part of your background or your experience. No. Okay. No, I'm serious. I'm serious. Where you're used to dealing with crazy, I hate to use the word No. Okay. No, I'm serious. I'm serious. Where you're used to dealing with crazy. I hate to use the word crazy. Yeah, no, it's okay.

Crazy people. In this case, you actually mean crazy people. I do. No, I don't want to like exploit anybody. And it's also like, I remember when I was at the Daily Show, John had this rule of not having any white supremacists on the show. And we were in a time where that was the right call because they were on the fringe. Yeah. And if you put these people on camera and you make them look sympathetic, or even if

you don't make them look sympathetic, but you air their views, it can be a recruiting tool for other people. Yeah. So that's part, it's always like, you know, who is the right target right now? And I try to be really thoughtful about who to who to have on you know i think i try not to pick low-hanging fruit um anymore at least and uh if someone's in a position of power they're fair game um even if they're not like if they're if they're somebody who's did something wrong but isn't in jail they're not, like if they're somebody who did something wrong but isn't in jail, they're fair game.

I try not to pay people. I know other people who do this kind of stuff. So Harvey Weinstein's going to be the next one. We'll pay people. I have not. No, he's not at the moment. I actually thought about that, but I don't know how. Are there any?

Yeah, it would. No, I mean, but you're on the right track of the type of people I'm kind of interested. Targeting. Yeah, I'm interested in people who, like why Cannibal Cop appealed to me is because he is dating again. Oh, wow. Or at the time he was dating again, and I thought that would be really. Cannibal Cop was, should you explain? Yeah, he was in New York City.

Not all cops are cannibals. This is one specific. Yeah, it was a real guy. He still is alive. He follows me on Twitter. He's not a cop anymore, though, right? He's not a cop anymore, but he's like a horror writer. No, he's.

Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. But it's a good outlet for him, you know. Let's hope so. Yeah, but I think that just when I read that he was dating again and I'd followed his case just being in New York, he was a police officer who was busted by his wife for plotting to eat her and her friends online.

And the case became about thought crimes and can you prosecute a thought crime? But the reality is he used NYPD software to stalk some women and he did a little bit more than a thought crime, but it was a really interesting case. And so when I found out he was dating again and out of jail, it was like the perfect type of person to talk to because it was a pretty easy person to do like a shocking interview. Yeah.

And the most shocking thing that I could have done was to normalize him. And that's, I don't know if you saw that segment. Yeah, I saw interview. Yeah. And the most shocking thing that I could have done was to normalize him. And that's, I don't know if you saw that segment. Yeah, I saw it. Yeah. But I mean, just kind of being like, Did he know that was coming?

No, he didn't know it was a comedy. It turned into a dating game. Yeah, he didn't know any of it. Three bachelorettes on the other side of the wall. So he had no idea. None of it. Wow.

And it was so perfect how that played out because at the last minute we were also like, maybe we should get somebody who actually would date him. And so I had the producers go on some fetish websites and look for a woman interested in blood play or whatever. And then you had to narrow it down to three. Well, yeah, we had two women who were normal and then one who was just kind of a little fetishy in that regard. And it worked perfectly. We didn't script any of that. It was magic how that a little fetishy in that regard. And it worked perfectly.

We didn't script any of that. It was magic how that played out. Wow. I know. I looked for an edit when I watched it. I'm like, wait, are they really just panning over and lighting up these three bachelorettes? Is this really happening? Well, what happened was I think I asked him, what do you look for?

And he said a sense of humor. And that's when I knew knew because i didn't know how the bit was gonna go and i've done other stuff that hasn't aired that we will do something like that and i did something about a guy who was like a transphobic politician and we it's a segment that hasn't aired yet because i don't i'm a little it's a little touchy but we didn't think he would be as crazy as he was and he was so crazy he actually made the piece unfunny

because we got and my friend who's a hilarious comedian Patty Harrison helped write it oh I love Patty yeah and we plotted it out to a level, and then the guy just kept going. And so we actually didn't anticipate he would be that far along. So then it just became unfunny. Yeah.

So with Cannibal Cop, I was like, he might not get to the dating game. He might walk out. Right. You plan all these things, and then that one just worked perfectly. It's hard to know with cannibals. Yeah. They're unpredictable. But you also have to remember, like, nothing we would do to him would be more embarrassing than what he's been through.

Right. So adding comedy to it was such a relief, I imagine, for him. Yeah. I think he's probably grateful. Yeah. That's probably why he took up writing horror. Is there anything that you can remember that you had planned out for somebody that didn't end up, you weren't able to use because the interview just didn't go in that direction? The scary thing is I'm really good at that job. At getting it to that point.

I'm like a good field producer, you know, because I think a lot of women are actually because you can really talk to people. And again, I don't take people out of context. I try to be as ethical as I can when I'm doing this. But I do remember situations at The Daily Show. I was the only female field producer at the time. And the guys were like, you're never going to get that person to do that. You're never going to get that.

And I was like, just wait. And we got, I like, maybe there was an instance where we thought we were going to get someone in that person, like backed out of, of like being interviewed. But for the most part, when somebody agrees to sit down with me, I pretty much capture, I mean, there was one segment that we did with a state Senator, a woman in, um, uh, West Virginia, uh, I forget where in West Virginia but there was a chemical spill and I had pitched a segment about how

the chemicals in the water were turning Republicans into Democrats like a toxic avenger type thing and I asked my associate producer if you can find anyone who is now who has a track record of being really lax on regulations for can find anyone who is now, who has a track record of being really

lax on regulations for chemical companies, but who is now trying to craft regulations for water, then we have a piece. And we found the nicest woman, but you know, her politics were bonkers. And we wanted her to do, I got her to like, we were in a, it was actually, I had like stomach pains the next day. I was like, my stomach was sore from laughing so hard. But we got this poor woman to like act out her own contamination. And we got her, she was like an elected official. We got her to do like spit takes. Yeah.

And like, there's a whole, the segment's called, I think, Fimby Fuck It's In My Own Backyard or something. But I did want her to like morph into the Toxic Avenger. And she was like, I'm not going to do that. And so I just, she was in a black suit and we just went to the Macy's and I bought a black suit and I put the Toxic Avenger mask on and I just bought, I was her body double. I just did the stuff I couldn't get her to do.

So where there's a will, there's a way. Yes. So it sounds like you're editing while you're in your head while you're interviewing people. For sure. And you know that

there needs to be an end. A beginning, a middle, and an end. Yeah. I mean, it's the hardest type of stuff in comedy.

It's also my favorite, but it is insanely difficult. That's why you don't see enough of it. Like, you know, Nathan Fielder, Sasha. Right.

Yeah. They do it so well. Well, I think you're up there. Trying. There's a new movie coming out that's all pranks. Eric Andre's movie. Eric Andre's movie. Yes, Eric Andre also.

Brilliant. I haven't heard a lot about this movie, but I think it's coming out soon. It's going to be great, I'm sure. And it sounds really funny. They're probably waiting for Christmas Day. Yeah, that's right. It's going to be with the Oscar. sure. They're probably waiting for Christmas Day. Yeah, that's right. It's going to be with the Oscar. Once everyone forgets about the Joker.

Yeah. We're all going to see the Joker together. We are. We're going right after this. But not to laugh. Like Bulletproof Fest. I know. There actually are.

The FBI has issued warnings. Yeah. I just, I'm comic book movied out. Yes. I think it started in 88. Yeah. And I just, I'm stunned they just keep remaking everything. I know.

And, well, there's a whole different Jake. It's an original story. Yeah, but this is a dark one. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I know. There are no new ideas. Jenna, what, tell us about this weekend.

Where can people see you? Oh, at the improv? Yeah. Yeah, on the showcase. On Melrose. On Melrose. On Melrose. Yeah.

But World Famous Hollywood Improv. Yeah, I'm excited. Have you performed there a lot? Yeah, I've definitely performed there a little bit. Do you like, typical comedian question, but I'm curious, do you like performing in LA? Do you come out here that often? I'm living out here at the moment. Oh, cool.

Yeah, I'm out here at the moment. I'm working on a couple of projects out here. Yeah. I like LA. I mean, New York is, I just, I love it there so much. New York has more cannibal cops. Yeah, yeah. I just, I love it there. much. New York has more cannibal crimes. Yeah, yeah. I just, I love it there.

But LA has a really cool comedy scene. There are a lot of really cool venues out here. And the community is really so nice. That's the other funny thing about that whole, like, comedy civil war. Like, I really, even comedians I disagree with, I'm friendly with. And there's such a, it's such a nice community of people. Yeah, so is that just, I mean, was that like it's completely made up for yeah for click sounds okay i mean the problem is is like you know there's not a lot of money in journalism anymore so everything is click oriented and people have to create stories out of nothing and that's actually

what is separating us like clickbait stories that just are trying to divide people and get reactions out of people rather than the reality, which is that, like, most people, you know, even with this crazy – even in this crazy political moment and, like, whatever, but most people on a base level are, like, kind and cool. When you read clickbait articles, if you actually like, I'm going to read this one. Oh my God, it never pays off. There's nothing there. It's based on three tweets, you know, and they extrapolated. And they took the quote out of context. And then, I know, it's so frustrating

because no one ever actually reads the article. So it just gets shared a million times on Twitter. But then I think, is Twitter even real? I don't know. Is Twitter really just like 12 other people that I'm in the same box with? It's 14. I'm trying to make you feel better. I go back and forth because I can get very addicted to Twitter, but I do follow journalists

that I appreciate. And it does kind of feel like it's a good, it really, the best use of twitter is like you change your settings so you don't get massively trolled and that said i've gotten pretty oh how do you change your settings what happens you can change you can change them to just yeah like people who don't follow you don't get to at you or whatever um so there are ways to do it but if you follow like journalists that you like it is a good way to get your news yeah no i No, I agree. And then I hear voices that I probably wouldn't normally, aren't like CNN talking heads. You mean, don't just follow other comics? Or you can do that.

No, no. I've heard the same thing. My wife has always said that. If you curate it, you can- You can have a perfect utopia. But some great news outlets. Yeah. It's perfect for that. Well, we're outlets. Yeah. It's perfect for that.

Well, we're out of time. I know, we are, but wait, so what day are you performing? I do know. Thank October 5th. Okay, so that's Sunday. No, Saturday. Oh, God. Thank October 5th.

Yeah, Saturday. Cool. Yeah. That's great. And where else do you perform in L.A. now that you're here? I have been traveling so much, so I haven't really, I don't have many dates on the calendar. And then I'm going to be in the New York Comedy Festival. I'm doing Miscarriage of Justice at Union Hall.

Oh, wow. November 10th at like, I think, 7 p.m. in the New York Comedy Festival. That's another, that's a big show I have coming up. That's awesome. Giant. That's fantastic. Do you think you'll do that hour long in LA? Yeah, I will probably do it again.

I did a couple little secret shows. Secret as in if you follow me on social media, it's not that secret. But I didn't like have a big announcement or anything. And then I might be doing a couple more. That's great. Yeah. Well, Jenna, thank you so much. Thank you. You're a delight. And then I might be doing a couple more. Cool. That's great. Yeah. Well, Jenna, thank you so much. Thank you.

You're a delight. And you are. You guys are. You don't have to say that. Okay. And yeah, break a leg. Break a leg. And get me that book on different ways people die.

Thank you. I don't ask for a lot from guests but I want it okay thanks Jenna thanks well that's our show for the week that's it enjoy the Team Coco

weekend yeah go to a comedy club near you there's a lot of really great comics this weekend there are

and we're gonna take credit for all of them sure because that's the Team Coco way so thanks for listening and we'll going to take credit for all of them. Sure. Because that's the Team Coco way. So thanks for listening, and we'll be back next week. We like you. Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast,

is hosted by Mike Sweeney and me, Jesse Gaskell. Produced by Kevin Bartelt. Engineered by Will Becton. Mixed by Ryan Connor. Supervising producer is Aaron Blair. Associate producer, Jen Samples. Executive produced by Adam Sachs

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