Inside Conan: An Important Hollywood Podcast - Jim Gaffigan Revisits The Origins of Pale Force

Episode Date: July 26, 2023

Comedian and author Jim Gaffigan joins Mike and Jessie to discuss his many stand-up appearances on Late Night and CONAN, the origins of the Late Night cartoon series "Pale Force", and the future of Late Night television as a whole. This episode was recorded on 6/15/2023.Got a question for Inside Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone] or e-mail us at [e-mail]

And now, it's time for Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. Welcome to Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. I'm Mike Sweeney. I'm Jesse Gaskell. And we are friends and co-workers. Yes, yes. And co-workers. When does that ever happen? Yeah. Oh, I guess all the time. But anyway. When all you do is work. Exactly. I know. Well, that used to be the case. Now it's a strike lifestyle. Yeah. We're on strike. We used to be writers for Conan. You were the head writer for a long time. Well, yeah.

Yes, I was. No one else would do it. Have you been picketing a lot lately? Yeah, I've been picketing. I've been actually going all the way to the West Side Studios. Really? Really far from where I live. Yeah. What are you running from? Well, I was, I've been meeting up, trying to meet up with some people I haven't seen in a while.

Oh, that's not, that's smart. Yeah. You know, it's a good excuse. Yes. Are these writer friends you're meeting, literally meeting on the picket line or people you're meeting who live on the West side? They're writer friends meeting who live on the West side? They're writer friends who also live on the West side. Well, and one of them, I just met Robin Schiff, who was my, she was my WGA mentor when I joined the WGA. And we interviewed her on this podcast because she was Conan's Groundlings teacher. Oh, right. Yes. Yes. But she was your WGA mentor? Yeah. They gave me a mentor when I joined. Why did you get a... I didn't get a mentor. Yeah, I don't know. I think that it was a newer program probably when I came along.

Have you had a lot of mentors in your life? You know what? I bet you attracted mentors. You just seem like a mentor magnet. Everyone's like, no, I want to mentor her. I'd consider like a mentor magnet. Everyone's like, no, I want to mentor her. I'd consider you a mentor. No, but I mean someone who actually helps you. You are that. But so many people always talk about their mentors. And no one ever wanted anything to do with me. I don't think I ever had a mentor.

I think they just didn't think you needed help. They were like, you're fine. I feel like I was cheated in life of a major experience. No one ever wanted to take me under their wing. It was like, ugh. Well, it's sort of a weird relationship because I don't know if you ever actually formalize it. Like, I mean, this one was, this was of the a program the wga was running but like people don't say oh would you like to be my mentee i mean that maybe is creeps say that creeps say that absolutely i i would have been happy if a creep wanted to mentor me anybody to groom you a creep mentor or if i was being groomed by someone, none of that, nothing. No love, no attention, even-

Well, what if Conan thinks he's your mentor? Oh. Uh-oh. No, no, because he'd be mentoring someone to be a host, right? Right. Yeah. I mean, sure, he mentors everyone. Or just to be in comedy.

I don't know. He likes to give advice. I think he mentors all the writers. He does. Yeah, absolutely. No, I, okay. I just was looking for something to complain about. So what else going on?

Well, so we've been house hunting and it's terrible. I mean, it's just insane. there was an article in the la times this morning about how awful it is here oh you're looking in la i was gonna say just as long as you're not looking in oh oh yeah no if i was i wish i was looking in kansas city but uh but i mean if you go further outside of Los Angeles, I mean, we're already pretty, we're as far East. You can be in, still be in Los Angeles city.

Yes. But Sona Movesessian is trying to get me to move to Altadena. Where she lives, right? Where she lives, which is even further East. It's further East and North. But we did,

we did go to see a house there because it was like, oh, we could in our budget have a house with this beautiful like landscaped yard with a pool. We could have a pool in Altadena. Oh my God. And

Altadena is nestled against these beautiful mountains. It is. It's right up against the Angeles National Forest. Right. Sona said there are bears all the time that wander through the neighborhood. So she checks next door to make sure there are no bears outside. Before she lets her kids out to play.

Yeah. And also you can't get insurance because of the wildfires. Right. So those are some of the downsides. Those are downsides. So yeah, you're not going to go to Altadena. That's what it sounds like. We're not ready yet, but I do.

From time to time, I'll get a little text from Sona that's like, hey, look, we've got a little free library now. Oh, yeah, I know. That's, I know. Well, yeah. I mean, I know we're gonna, we'll be fine wherever we are. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And actually today's guest famously lived in a two bedroom apartment in New York with like seven people in it. Yeah. His wife and two kids and five kids. I think five kids. Five kids. Which I thought that was against the law,

but I guess you're allowed to have as many kids. Oh no, that's China. No, but even they rescinded that law. I guess you're allowed to have as many kids as you want, but that's crazy that they live like that. And that's a reality show. Yeah, he did it just to get material for his act. Okay, well, that makes sense.

But I'm glad he did it because he's hilarious. We're talking about Jim Gaffigan. Yes, Jim Gaffigan, really funny, obviously stand-up comic, many time Conan guest and was even in some Conan sketches early on remote. Yes. Yep. Here's Jim Gaffigan. Hi, Jim. How are you?

Thanks for having me. When was the last time you two saw each other? Oh, I don't know. Probably the last time you're on the Conan show. Yeah. That's when we agree to see each other backstage. It's so crazy. So, you know, Mike, I've been doing standup forever and he was the crowd work king.

Mike Sweeney, Mike Sweeney's on. Go, go check it out. Mike Sweeney's on. Go put money in your meter. And so there was, it's, it is, uh, I feel like I'm talking to a comedy legend here. This is how he opens every podcast. He knows that he was a killer. Yeah. Mike Sweeney, a couple different Mike Sweeney jokes. One is my mother was a nurse. And so instead of pornography, I would look at her medical book.

And so now I can only get aroused if a woman has a hatchet in her head or something like that. Was that kind of what the joke was? Oh, I think a giant goiter. Yes, a giant goiter. Yeah, a nice a giant goiter. Yes, a giant goiter. Yeah, a nice big sweaty goiter. It's also the worst thing in the world for someone to repeat a joke back to you and butcher it. Well, I didn't remember it until you said it. So blissfully, like a bad dental experience, my brain is erased.

Yes. All those old jokes. That's a victimless crime because then you get to blame it on the delivery and you get to blame it on the writing. That was actually the best version of it I've ever heard.

I like the hatchet in the head. It was a book on forensics. So I remember the first time I saw you was at the comic strip on Second Avenue and you were, I think it was your first time

there possibly and i i does that might have been is do you was that the first club you went to i mean if we're going to go down memory lane when uh was that the first club you got in at the comic strip or was there was it a different i really struggled to get in there really um but i remember so like it's i i don't know it's all such a blur. It was 30 years ago, which is ironic because we're only 31. Right, right, guys.

Audio medium. But you were funny right away. There were some comics. Yeah, you mentioned that because I asked about that and you said there's a couple people that just immediately, they come out of the womb being good at stand-up and it sounds like that was Jim. Thank you, that's very nice.

And all the other, you were great right away and Chris Rock and Jon Stewart and Ray Romano, guys were just like seemed to just go off the shore and immediately they're surfing. They didn't have that year of bombing.

If they were bombing, they were doing it. Maybe you were doing it on Long Island, but not when I saw you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, I know this is inside Conan, but it's really just about standup comedy in 1993. It's a very specific year. Honestly, you've listened to the podcast.

Sometimes we do divert in that direction. So wait a minute. So inside Conan, because the show, the Conan show, the different versions of it was so instrumental in my life. Really. It is just amazing how,

you know, and, and also it's like even some of you know you show up you'd see friends there and also i mean conan was really good like you know like you'd watch the opening monologue and everyone would laugh i mean i know he sucked at the beginning but everyone sucks at the beginning yeah yeah but like it is amazing and because I did that pale force thing right I remember you know I had a frequency to go there and there was um to witness and and also you know the dynamic of of conan and letterman i also like doing conan and letterman because i'd always kind of romanticized hosting a late night show and i was like i was like oh this is a horrible job you know like it's a really you have to go every day you know and you have to be on and and, you know, both Conan and Letterman would, you know, there's, you know, there is there's a uh you can measure it in like a

really a minutiae so like when they don't get you get spoiled by really good audiences so like both conan and letterman would be like this crowd and you're like whereas with letterman if he didn't like the crowd he would just be in a bad mood on camera. On camera. Yeah. Well, he would just kind of, you can kind of see it in his eyes where he, I mean, he also had done it much longer, but I remember watching Conan. And I'm sure you guys know about this when like, like when Conan would have a guest that was, and there were usually actors that thought they were funny,

that were really not funny. And Conan would save them. They would be careening down this path of like utter humiliation. And I would see Conan save these these people pick them up out of the water turn it on himself and save them yeah and i remember just being like i was like oh my gosh that's so impressive i don't know i just that really stayed with me when i would watch him do that that was one of my early impressions after working there was you know sometimes there'd be ideas for stuff for comedy and he'd be like it's too negative it's too negative and it's similar

to what you're saying like out there if someone's floundering kind of the easy way to go would be to pile on yeah and and let them down you're right he he always had this kind of wanting to be a gracious host and i i think that helped drive him to kind of try to save the save everyone on the couch at that time you know yeah and he had and by the way there is that's not to say that i mean it's not my style but like the whole um ribbing of, you know, that kind of like giving each other shit thing. It's not like, I understand the value in that, but it's also just, it's a safer bet. You know what I mean?

And then you look at like, at Jimmy Fallon, where he's like, you know, it's like, it's warmth overload. And I don't mean that in a negative way. You know what I mean? And so, but also Conan was so funny that it was, I mean, now it sounds like he's dead. I do these bits on the panel and then sometimes occasionally he would throw a tag and I'm like, dude, that's better than the whole joke. I just.

Well, yeah, you two had great chemistry right away. Yeah. So do you remember the first time you were on the show? I think I think it might have been what I remember. I don't know if it was the very first time, but it was like, what people don't realize is there is among standup comedians there, your, your publicists and management are always trying to get you on the couch. Right. Right. And the thing is, is that no one tells you that when you get to the couch that you should be conversational or it's a different task than doing your jokes. So I know, like, I remember I did the, I don't know if it was the first time, but I did the paneling thing.

And I remember afterwards I was like, oh, I was just doing jokes. Like, that's not how you do paneling. Right. remember afterwards I was like oh I was just doing like that's not how you do paneling right you know I mean like there is something about um the task of being a guest on uh on a talk show where it has to you can have pre pre-determined, but it has to be organic. Right. So I'm wondering if it's just, because in this thing, if it is what I'm thinking of, it's just me doing jokes. No, actually, it's a piece that was dug up. Oh, wait a minute. Yes. Oh, is it me and Andy and Conan? Yeah.

Yes. And it's a pre-tape. With kids. You're a network executive doing a focus group with children who were in, we did a show with an all-child audience. And it was a follow-up piece. Yes. And I'd totally forgotten about it. And we just dug it up a few months ago.

And there you are. You're kind of the star of it. Yeah. And it's nine minutes long. Yeah. It's nine minutes long? dug it up a few months ago and there you are you're kind of the star of it yeah you're and it goes it's nine minutes long and you're nine minutes yes it's and you guys did not play a nine minute thing it I believe in those days back then yes yeah and you're great in it and and it's I think it's a couple of years before it was 1997 it so it was a couple of years before you came back to do stand-up on the

show so you were acting in it oh yes so so there was also a bit that was i mean which is really kind of funny given because it was this show the show was ahead of its time in a lot of ways in that there was and it was probably around the same same time period and because it was probably around the same time period. Because it was self-aware, which is kind of Conan's sensibility. And it was talking about Conan and Andy. And they were going to add diversity to the show. And so they added me. I don't remember that. That's great. So instead of this Irish Catholic from Boston and this, this, this Protestant from Illinois,

they added me and they said I was a Mormon, you know, and it was, but at the rehearsal I flubbed my line and Conan was like, maybe we should cut it. And I'm like, I'm not going to mess up. He said that out loud. He usually, he usually waits till we're backstage to go, maybe we should cut that. That's how you know he's not going to cut it. It was just such an easy line. And I just, I think it's intimidating.

It is. It's very, well, a lot of people are great in rehearsal. And then when the audience is added and the red light comes on, they really panic so better to get it out in rehearsal yes get it over with get those cobwebs that was smart so you i mean i don't know if this is what this is about but i'm really curious because we are living through i mean with this strike and it's there is part of me that feels like this is

the worst thing that could happen to late night talk shows this strike so it's like hey you people that the remaining people that still have a habit of watching late night comedy or variety

show kind of thing you're now going to we're going to give you three late night comedy or variety show kind of thing. We're going to clean you off of it. We're going to give you three months to get into Dateline. We're going to give you three months to find out what your

HBO Max password is. Do you know what I mean? Yes. I feel for Colbert and all these guys because it's just like it's pretty brutal. You know, like you have some

momentum and you have these diehards, but it's really, my great brilliant observation is that you know, I'm sure when they, you know, when they introduce television they, you know, uh, when they, when they introduce television, they're like, oh, this is going to kill movies. And, um, and in a way, yeah. And, and so in a way, this is finally like streaming. The version of television is the final thing that's going to kill movies.

Like, I mean, it has in some ways and I'm, you know, I'm not talking about like Marvel movies or, you know, or, you know, some indie films I'm talking about, like the movie experience that I had growing up, which was, you know, as a teenager, you would go to a movie on a weekend because you couldn't go to a bar, you would, you know, and now teenagers spit in their parents' basement and eat an edible that they somehow can get wherever they want. And they don't have to go to a movie theater. And their parents are like, we don't want you to leave the property. No, it's- Or they're playing video games. Well, sometimes on Instagram, it's like, well, check out this crazy variety TV,

the Osmond show from 75. And you're like, that's crazy. And lately I've been like, is that our late night talk show clips going to be like that in 15 years where it's like, wait, you'd sit on this ugly couch. And why are those other two people on the couch? And what is this? You know, because you wonder where it's headed. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is so.

But like, do you guys have an instinct of what the next iteration of. Because there is something, and also there's celebrities have their, you know, Jennifer Aniston's got her Instagram. Right. And Brad Pitt, like it used to be, you would, you would see, oh, you know, like, you know, like this celebrity that, you know, Muriel Hemingway is going to be on The Tonight Show. It's like, I don't even know what she's like outside of the movies, you know?

Yeah. And now it's like, we know everything. And they also have their own vodka and tequila. Right. They're so much more accessible. Too accessible. They don't need the machinery of late night to promote anything anymore because

yeah, they can just go direct to consumers basically. So, and you know, podcasts, I guess, have replaced it, right? There's a long form element that has and I'm sure you guys, like, it's so interesting. How often do you

run into people? because i'm sure people there's an audio version and a video version of this right right and so there are people that you don't know know you from this right that's what someone has said told us i mean as as you're saying this I have had that thought cynically. I've thought, okay, podcasts have proliferated. And then now every podcast is being filmed. And now is that going to be kind of the new late night show? Right. But we sort of circumvented, like, we found a much cheaper way to make it.

There's no writers. There's no, you know, stage crew. And there's no unions to deal with. So now we kind of. And it's two hours long. Yeah, there's no editing. Not, stage crew and there's no unions to deal with. So now we kind of. And it's two hours long. Yeah. There's no editing. Not this.

Don't worry. Right. Yeah. But yeah. So we like circuitously ended up in the same place, but with, by, you know, without all the expensive stuff. It's like, who was the guy that was Tom Snyder? Like Tom Snyder, Tom Snyder essentially did a

podcast. So you're a little kid watching this guy and you're like, what the hell is he doing? What is this? He's just this eccentric guy. I don't know who that is. He's too close to his head. Do you know what I mean? It was like, is this like a Fernwood Tonight

kind of thing? What's going on here? And so that's what podcasts are, except for there's a bazillion of them, right? And my 17-year-old son falls asleep listening to podcasts. Yeah. That's how we counteract loneliness now. And you're right. That was what late night was before. Or a white noise machine. Yeah. That's my podcast. I go to bed too. Right. Hi.

I like to do Jim doing me. Hi, Jim. Good to see you. That's what you've been doing this whole time. That's right. I had no idea. I thought it was me. It's Jim doing me. Well, so do you feel like you've stepped away from, like, do you,

if you're asked to be in a late night show now, do you even care? Because you have, now you have so many, you're so prolific and you have all these specials that are coming out and you can promote them on your website. It's almost like you have this whole infrastructure too where you don't even need

to do those appearances in a way. Right. Or do you feel that way? That's evolving. I mean, I wonder if some of it is, uh, it's,

it's so crazy because how important they were, you know, like the appearing on Letterman or doing a Conan set was, it was, uh, you know, it was not a huge accolade, but it reaffirmed you as a real comedian. Right. And so I think there's remnants of that with me. It's also fun. You know what I mean? And. And, um, but it is weird. It is weird witnessing the, um, you know, granted, you know, it's hard to measure what, uh, you know, the social media feedback on things. Like I've seen the, it used to be the social media comments. I mean, granted I used to be more, uh, on top of Twitter, but it's, it's like the people that

are watching late night shows now are probably not engaged in social media, if that makes sense. Right. So I mean, I'm sure there's, uh, I'm generalizing, but it is, um, it is interesting, but you know, one of the things that is, I mean, it's kind of a different question, but I feel as though, uh, you know, the podcast experience is so, uh, perfect for comedians because it's how we can kind of socialize with other comedians because if you have if you have you know I don't care if you're divorced and living on your own you can't you know like everyone in the entertainment industry is you know they're now they're working on this show now they're touring they're doing this or that so what people don't realize is that comedians kind of talking on podcasts is and they also are you know comedians aren't the type of person like just catching up you know there is like, we, you know, we were kind of, there was an incubation period where you wouldn't make plans.

You would just go to a club and you would see someone you know, and you'd hang out with them for a little bit. Until 3 a.m. And do bits and never learn about their lives. Now everyone's going to bed early because they have to get up and do an early morning podcast with another comic oh and so they're doing the podcast is a great time to hang out with these yeah it's it's it's a justification and everyone's like so busy you know someone's in a relationship it's like your spouse or whatever is like i have to do do this. This is a, you know, this is part of the job, but otherwise, you know, my wife would be like, you got to help me with these kids.

I'm like, I'm working. I'm booked. I wanted to ask about Pale Force because you briefly brought that up. But yeah, Jim, you were a part of a kind of really long running bit on Late Night with Gordon O'Brien that was an animated sketch called Pale Force where you were superheroes who would solve crimes and fight crime with your paleness. Yes. How did, do you remember how that came about or how that got pitched to you?

Oh yeah. No. And I remember, um, so my brother-in-law who was Paul Knoth, who is, uh, he's done a lot of things. He's, but he was, he was a cartoonist for the New Yorker. He still is, but he's done graphic novels and he's done a lot of things. He had this, he would come with me. He also wanted to, you know, he looked at, I'm sure he's written on shows and stuff like that. But he would come with me thing we could do on Conan. And I was like, I, you know, I don't want to like, I mean, it was such a good gig doing standup. I don't want to spoil the well here. I don't want to be, I mean, I can be a nudge, but I don't want to be too much of a nudge. And he's like,

well, you know, and he was like, you know Mike Sweeney, right? And I'm like, yeah, but you know, I don't want him to like, when he sees me, be like, I don't want him to be sad when he sees me. I want him to be happy. Here's the guy pitching the nepotism cartoon.

He won't shut up. His brother-in-law is running his life. And by the way, it was all Paul's idea. And pitching the nepotism cartoon. He won't shut up. His brother-in-law's running his life. It was, and by the way, it was all Paul's idea. And we worked on it a little bit, kind of presenting it. And we brought it up to Mike and Jeff Ross. And it was one of those things where, you know, they try it. And it is kind of, you know, there is something like Conan, so self-deprecating and, and the paleness thing was something that I kind of addressed in my standup.

And there was a time when I was on, I was doing standup and Phil Hoffman was on and Conan. And it was just, I remember addressing how there was just like so many pale people in kind of my inside voice thing. And so, um, we kind of brought it up and you know, it's like, and then Mike was nice enough to kind of go, all right, I'll see what we can do here, you know? And, um, but it, so we did it and it worked.

Well, I mean, it's so funny because. I just pitched it to Conan and he was like, well, yeah, that sounds like the idea. I think he was just like, I get to be a superhero. I think he was so excited. Yeah. Guest was going to like do all this extra homework. Well, that's the other thing I was going to say is, I mean,

as writers on the show, it's like, oh no, please take all the time you need, Mr. Gallagher. Right, right, right. Exactly. Well, you know, that's a guest, it was a guest segment, so it really didn't help with all the other stuff. It was like, yeah, okay, sure. Make your cartoon. But, uh, no, but Conan loved the idea. And then it was, it was a giant, the first one just killed. Yeah. So that was... And it was also... And then we were like, we're going to do this. I mean, it's so weird in this day and age where many people are consuming this by watching the video. But we had this idea that we would do half the episode on the show

and half would be on NBC.com right 2005 oh my god the internet this is when Netflix was maybe thinking of doing streaming they were the male end

and and there would always be a throw to NBC.com and then we'd be at, cause you know, we'd be at home watching and we'd be like, all right, let's go to NBC.com. It never worked. Oh, that's great. And it was. They didn't have the bandwidth.

Well, because the technology wasn't there. Yeah. You know. We can't host videos. They got their act together. Oh wait, it doesn't exist. It was amazing. But animations, and obviously, again, my brother-in-law, Paul. Yeah, how did he,

did he just animate it himself? That's usually a full team of people. Yeah, he drew a lot of it. I think the first one, he pretty much did everything. Wow. And then when we, then we did another one and then it became this series idea, you know, where I would come back. And I was coming back like once a month.

Yes. I was looking at the dates. You were also prior to this coming back every two months doing standup, which is. Wow. Like I saw one where you're on in June and then you're on three months later. And I'm like, wow, that is, I think it was just like, come back, please come back whenever you're available. Yeah. I love doing it. And it was really, I mean, I think that contributed like the frequency of doing these late night spots.

I was kind of, I was essentially clean, but it was, you know, there were some curse words, but like if you're getting ready to do a TV set where you can't obviously curse, then you, then you have to sit there and get rid of the curse words. So I was like, I'm just going to get rid of it before I write it now. And so that kind of steered me in a way to like, I mean, it's not like I was, you know, cursing every other phrase, but it was, it was those Conan spots where it was, all right, you got four minutes. And it was also like making sure that um you know you you also wanted it to be easy you wanted to deliver and you didn't want someone

to be like right because there is that is also funny with like some comedians they're like it is clean i don't say anything i just talk about eating pussy and you're like that is not clean I say labia but I don't curse it's actually not just about cursing no but that's really interesting so you kind of started writing specifically for TV spots

yes and again it was that was you know that was way more important than um you know a comedy central i mean comedy central you could get a half hour but and and i think that was probably like the blue collar guys were exploding but but appearing on a conanman, you know, and The Tonight Show, but really it was Conan and Letterman, wasn't it?

If Jay Leno's listening to this, I don't want him to feel bad, but... Jay's our biggest fan. He loves all Conan. Of course, he's like... He knows who's going to come up. Do you know any of the history?

Jim. Also, I like him feeling bad when he listens to this. He's got all, he has all our merch. do you know any of the history? Uh, Jim. Also, I like him feeling bad when he listens to this. It hurt my feelings. Uh, yeah, no,

I think among comics, uh, yeah, I mean, Letterman and then Conan became kind of a hot place for standups to start making their first appearance on, you know, after a bit.

So, but that, I love that you had that discipline because most comics, it's like, you know, you're going on every night in a club in, in probably in New York city. And the pressure to want to swear or just to ingratiate yourself with that

live crowd. But you were like able to kind of say, okay, which I think is really hard to do. I you were like able to kind of say, okay, which I think is really hard to do. I'm working for a higher power. Yeah, seriously. NBC standards and practices. That's right.

I want to get an NBC.com when it works. But yeah, no, that's, it's very impressive though. That's cool. So really Conan is the reason you got to open up for the Pope. He is. He is the only reason. Good. He is. He is the only reason. If we learn anything from this.

Weird. It's so... The Pope thing is so weird because it's such an absurd idea. They're like, oh, you know, the Pope's coming to Philadelphia. And they're like, Oh, you know, the Pope's coming to Philadelphia and they're like,

we should probably get a comedian to open. It's different genres. And I, I had a whole story on it in a special, but it's, there's also something about the Northeast. I love the Northeast, but like,

you know, Philadelphia, Boston, you know, Long Island, they don't, they're not, you know, like there were people there that were, you know, like eventually I did a joke where I kind of like said, you know, you guys are so not, you guys are going to be nice to the Pope. And they what you did to santa claus and they started booing they started booing me right before they saw the guy who was gonna talk to them about mercy do you mean it was just like but there is something about the northeast that i love so much there's an authenticity like there's not an editor but it's so absurd that someone because there's there's not an editor, but it's so absurd that someone,

because there's, there's situations where you can't like a reverence is really, uh, it's inappropriate. You know what I mean? It's like, if you're like, no, one's going to be like,

you know, like, what'd you think of the opening acts for the Pope? No, it's going to be like, you know what? I thought the, uh,

it's just like, if you're sarcastic, you're being inappropriate to some people. And then other people are like, you know, he's really holding back. You know what I mean? It's like, I thought he was going to roast the Pope. He's pulling his punches. They're not letting the Gaffigan be Gaffigan.

I never thought about that. It was in Philadelphia, which is hilarious. Just like one of the toughest. That's terrifying. That's terrifying. There's that legendary Bill Burr gig outdoors in Philly where like, I don't know, four or five other comics went on. So he knew the deal.

Like, I'm sure the first comic, that's the problem when you're the first comic or the first two comics, you're like, you just assume it's you. And you're like, I failed. But then the other comics watching, you're like, oh no, that comic's really good. This crowd, the crowd blows. And by the time he went out there,

he just went insane. It's one of, it went insane. It's great. It's funny. The Pope was probably thinking that. I know. And then Bill Burr introduced the Pope. The Pope loves Philly. He loves to headline. He's always passing through. He loves playing Philly.

It's like that is that whole comedy as combat was kind of a thing that existed in 90s New York City comedy. Very much in New York. Because now the audience is more educated on what stand-up is and what the experience is supposed to be. But I think in the early nineties, people were like, are we supposed to hack?

Oh, we're supposed to, I saw Rodney Dangerfield. Yeah. And then, yeah. So it was, but it was so in a way,

sorry, go ahead in a way. No, no. I was going to say that too. It's like, I feel like when I finally went to DC and I did the DC improv and people were laughing at certain things, I was like, oh, wait a minute. Maybe audiences are, you know, there's a different expectation.

It's a different experience. It is regional. It's like the audiences in Chicago, like a lot of comics would move to New York from Chicago and none of them were sarcastics. And I was like, wow, that it's almost like a reflection of what their audience is like.

And then I went to San Francisco and I never saw audiences that great in my life. I was just like, why every comedian should move to San Francisco? Because they're like theater crowds. They're just smart and engaged. It seems like how Olympic athletes train in Denver because at the altitude, whenever they go anywhere else, they're going to be in the best shape of their lives.

So, I mean, you guys starting out in these cities on the East Coast that are tougher crowds. Unless you're like, you know, disciplined, you can just develop really bad habits and kind of get into the muck. And fight with them. And then you go to another city and everyone's like, why is this guy yelling at us?

Why is he being such an asshole to us? It also can evolve. I remember when pot became, you know, like pot was first legal in Colorado and Denver was a big drinking city, Chicago, you know, like there are certain cities where you're like, people are just going to be bombed. You know what I mean?

And it's just an expectation, particularly on late shows. And so I remember I did Denver and I had been going to Denver for a while. And I, so they made pot legal and there was this meet and greet. You do these theaters and like, if they paid a certain amount, you would do a meet and greet with 50 of them. And it was probably maybe three months after pot had been legal and at the meet and greet with 50 of them. And it was probably maybe three months after pot had been legal. And at the meet and greet, you know, usually there would be somebody drunk, maybe like someone, one or two people drunk out of 50 at the Denver. The first time I did it, I'm not kidding. Like half the audience was being carried because pot was legal. So people were like taking an edible or they were smoking this really, really powerful weed.

And so like people were carrying their date through the meet and greet. And it was because they had had this Denver let's party attitude, but they were doing it with weed. Right. And it was right at the beginning. So it was like, it was fascinating to witness that change. Yeah. The next day they were like, did I meet Jim Gaffigan?

Yes, yes, you did. We saw that show. Right. Yeah, those seem like not great audiences, the really high audiences. Yeah. I mean, they're definitely not combative you know and but it was just so it's like you know it's like amazing to see

because like just you know it's like the pot that that we smoked as teenagers half the time it wasn't right it was a It was oregano. You know, it was just some shit that some jerk sold us. And, but like now it's like the purest stuff in the world. Some people are just not used to it. Right. Our tolerances are low. Yes. I'm surprised they have money for those meet and greets with all the money they're spending on drugs drugs drugs i call them drugs i'm an old man well jim um we i know we have to wrap up with you soon but uh we definitely want to talk about your new special dark pale it's on amazon anything we need to know it's it's dark it's a little dark i'm gonna answer yeah You know, there is, which I love.

Oh, thanks so much. I, you know, there is something about, uh, you know, I think the pandemic going through the pandemic, you know, there is a certain cynicism that we all kind of encountered and, and, you know, like for me, it's, you know, I'm not saying I would edit or hold back on some of my misanthropic tendencies, but it was, so I was kind of, I'm going to be a little bit more dark than I, maybe I have previously or more dark than in selective instances, you know, and, but, you know, comedians, you're always kind of hopefully evolving. So, and it's, you know, I do think that doing a standup and people consuming your, your standup, that it should evolve.

It should change. And, you know, like sometimes I'm like, all right, that it should evolve. It should change. And, you know, like sometimes I'm like, all right, I'm going to tell a story here. It's like, all right, the challenge of like, all right, I'm going to try and make funerals funny. I mean, not that people haven't heard funeral jokes, but like, you know, it's, you know, we've all gone through this and I think human beings, we can't exist in that, that devastation of a funeral, but there is humor in that experience. But again, we, like, we can't live in the reality that, you know, people we love are going to die. But like, some of it is going through the pandemic. We had to face that reality. Many of us did. I lost my aunt during it

and a couple friends later on. So it was just kind of one of those things where it was, I guess, top of mind. So I just kind of wrote about it. That's why I thought it was so ingenious. You started out kind of like, oh, here we are

coming out. We're all out of COVID. And then you were talking about, yeah, like how everyone became so callous during COVID. And then I just thought it was ingenious that that was kind of your spring. You're right there talking about people dying during COVID and the new tally coming out and blah, blah. And then boom, right into the funeral stuff.

And I was like, oh, that's such a great natural way into all that darker stuff. I appreciate it. And then I segue into diarrhea. Always good to do some diarrhea stuff, right? That's eternal. It can be dark or light. You know, and- Keep it highbrow, right?

Exactly. You know, it's like you want to stay in the, you know, you want the Peabody something for the Peabody judges. Right? If you look at Peabody, things that have won Peabody, the diarrhea runs through all the winners. It's a constant.

It's a consistency. It's there. Well, thank you for doing this. Yeah, I know. Thank you so much. It was great seeing you again. Thanks so much. This was really fun, you guys. Yeah. This was fun for us. Yes.

Appreciate it. Thanks, Jim. All right. Thanks to Jim Gaffigan for joining us and his new special. It's called Dark Pale. It's out now on Prime Video. Go check that out.

And we have a listener question. Ooh. This is a very specific one. It's from Michael Lockyer from St. John's, Newfoundland. Hello to you both. Oh, very formal. I've been listening to the podcast since day one and absolutely love all the behind the scenes stories.

I'm from Newfoundland, Canada. And one of my fondest youthful memories is when Conan got screeched in by Natasha Henstridge in quite an old episode of Late Night. Oh, it is specific. I've always wanted to know more about that absolutely hilarious moment on the show. I'm sure Mike was around at the time. Ah! Because he's older than Methuselah. He's always around.

He saw it all and remembers none of it. Thanks for all the behind-the-scenes details of my favorite show of about 30 years. Really hope I get to get some details on this probably mostly forgotten moment. I love you, Michael Lockyer. Thanks, Michael. Thank you, Michael. We love you, Michael Lockyer. Thanks, Michael. Thank you, Michael.

We love you too. I had never seen this clip, so I had to watch this. Right. To know what screeching in even is. I had no idea. It sounds so Canadian. I was in the same boat with you.

Yeah, so we looked up. Screeched in is something very specific to Newfoundland. I supposedly it's like to, if you're visiting Newfoundland, it's a drinking ritual to prove, to make you a temporary Newfie. Oh, I mean, it's basically a drinking. It's an excuse for drinking. It's an excuse for drinking. Natasha Henstridge is from Newfoundland. So she came on the show and she gave, made Conan drink some screech rum. And I guess there's a poem you read and Conan, I think, I think it was so funny because Conan just started, of course,

drinking the rum straight out of the bottle. And the other aspect of it, it's hard to tell from watching the clip, but Conan's first baby had just been born two days earlier. And he, it was his first show back from his baby being born. And he was, he didn't really take a paternity leave. Wow, two days?

Yeah. And so- His wife was thrilled. Yeah. Well, listen, he had to- The people needed late night. Exactly. People needed late night. He's an essential worker on the front lines. Okay. Well, thank you for the question and the memories, Michael. And okay, I have to give a little update.

At the top of the show, I was talking about Altadena house shopping. Right, where Sona lives. And the housing market. Yeah, where Sona lives. Yeah. And I mentioned

that we were able to afford a house there with a pool. Yes. Well, I have an update because within the time that we've been to afford a house there with a pool. Yes. Well, I have an update because within the time that we've been recording, that house sold for way over the asking price out of our budget. So we already can't afford to live in Altadena anymore.

I thought you were gonna say you bought a house in Altadena. That I bought the house, yeah. I wish that's what I was gonna say. No, I just wanted to say, if anyone was listening was like, oh, I'm gonna go buy a house in Altadena. Right, right, right, right. You already missed it.

It's too late. The window closed. The market is already through the roof. The market's supposed to be going down the tubes. What's happening? No, it's just, it's worse than ever. You know what? You mentioned that Sona lives there.

And now that's when everyone started bidding above the asking. That's right. They got the Sona bump. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I'll tell her that that's what she's done. Sure.

She ruined it entirely. The cute little Altadena is now going to turn into Venice Beach. Sonaville. Yeah. Potterville. It's a wonderful life.

Well, that's our show. No, wait. You're going to find a better house somewhere else. Yeah, that's our show. No, wait. You're going to find a better house somewhere else. Yeah, I'm going to go even further into the mountains. You're going to move up to what is that? Lancaster. Oh, sure. Yeah.

That's only a two-hour commute. Let's look in Lancaster. Oh, it's already out of our budget. Yeah, well, Bakersfield. All right, I'm Googling... Nope. That's a whole... Damn. Fresno. Gilroy, the garlic capital of California. If only.

You'll actually be closer to San Francisco. But I'll fly up there and we'll do it up there. Have fun in Gilroy. I think I have to move to Nevada. I don't know. Would you live in Nevada. I don't know. Would you live in Nevada? Oh. I don't know.

Do you like to gamble? No. I don't know. No, I don't. I once found a poker chip on the ground and I cashed it out. Oh. I hope you were in a casino. I was in a casino.

Okay, okay, okay. Yeah. Good, good, good, good. No, I don't were in a casino. I was in a casino. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah. Good, good, good, good. No, I don't gamble. All right. I know how to get us to the end of a podcast by bringing it up. Oh, so you wouldn't live in Nevada.

Let me ask you this, Montana. How about Utah? Let's jump to the East Coast now. Anyway, we got to wrap this up. Thank you, Michael. That was, I could see why you remember that clip. It was really funny. And if anyone else has a question for us, please give us a call at 323-209-1079 or email us at insideconanpod at gmail.com. And if you call, don't worry. No one's going to answer.

It's just a voicemail box. Is it even that? I assume it was disconnected. I've been too afraid to call. Disconnected four years ago and our producer makes up all these questions. But either way, give it a try. You never know. Oh, and if you like the show,

you can feel free to support us by rating Inside Conan on iTunes and leaving us a review. It could be negative. That's right. No. We're not going to monitor it. Well, you know, our rating of you isn't negative. You are listeners. In fact,

it's the highest rating. So positive that we love you. Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast, is hosted by Mike Sweeney and me, Jesse Gaskell. Our producer is Lisa Burr. Team Coco's executive producers are Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao. Engineered and mixed by Joanna Samuel.

Our talent bookers are Gina Batista and Paula Davis with assistance from Maddie Ogden. Thanks to Jimmy Vivino for our theme music and interstitials. You can rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts. And of course, please subscribe and tell a friend to listen to Inside Conan or an enemy on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, or whatever platform you like best.

I'm not going to tell you what to do. Put on your hat, it's the Conan Show. Try on some spats, you're going to have a laugh. Give birth to a calf, it's Conan. This has been a Team Coco production.