Inside Conan: An Important Hollywood Podcast - Jonathan Groff

Episode Date: October 18, 2019

Jonathan Groff (Black-ish) was the head writer of Late Night with Conan O’Brien from 1995 to 2000. Jonathan joins Conan writers Mike and Jessie to talk about the many times he’s gotten confused with the Broadway actor Jonathan Groff, giving John Krasinski the advice to not become an actor, Conan singing a song about how Jonathan and Mike were going to ruin the show on their very first day at Late Night, and more.This episode is brought to you by Vital Farms (www.vitalfarms.com/coupon), Tailor Store (www.tailorstore.com/insideconan), and Candid Co (www.candidco.com/insideconan).Check out Conan Without Borders: Greenland: https://teamcoco.com/greenlandCheck out Conan25: The Remotes: https://conan25.teamcoco.com/Got a question for Inside Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone] and e-mail us at [e-mail] For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com

And now, it's time for Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. All right. All right. It's us again. Hi. You're stuck with us. Yeah. Same hosts, same podcast, different guests every week. That is our one big promise. Yeah. Same hosts. Same podcast.

Different guests every week. That is our one big promise. Yes. I think other. So far we've maintained it. Yeah. Some podcasts have the same guest like 50 weeks in a row. Not us.

No. And we have a great guest today. Who is us? Oh, right. Yeah. Oh, it doesn't. I'm Jesse Gaskell. I guess I'm Mike Sweeney. And we're writers in Conan.

We are. And we host this podcast. It's called Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. Right, right. Just to remind you what you're listening to in case you accidentally clicked on the wrong thing. Right. You know, half serious, half ironic title. And we like to talk about, you know, behind the scenes of Conan.

And things go off from there. And we have to talk about, you know, behind the scenes of Conan and things go off from there. And we have a lot of great guests, including very excited about today's guest. He's here. He's listening. He is. He is. I'm beaming.

Trying to make him blush. An old friend and a very talented and very funny man. Mr. Jonathan Groff is here today. And he was, we should funny man, Mr. Jonathan Groff, is here today. And he was— We should clarify it's not Jonathan Groff, the Broadway actor. Right. I got stories about that.

It was ugly. I bet you do. Oh, double booking? Yes. I believe it was an agent, I think William Morris, who was adamant that— They were in New York, WME, and they were adamant that I needed to be downtown. I was in my office in Burbank or something. And like, you are supposed to be downtown at Circle in the Square in 25 minutes.

Oh, my God. You were late for Glee. Was part of you, I mean, were you stressed out to hear that? Were you like, oh, man, I forgot I'm supposed to be downtown. Well, I was stressed out for him. I was no somebody with my name. Right. I was late.

Did part of you say, late by proxy, I'm going to go down there and knock their socks off and I'm going to be the Jonathan Groff who now gets all these I'm going to play King George.

musical parts. So the first time, I'll tell you, I'll give you the best of my Jonathan Groffs. I want, I'm dying to hear it. Can I say one thing?

Yes. Yeah, I just want to introduce you. Oh, okay. The fact that you were Stardews writer on Late Night and you were the head writer on Late Night

during very heady times from 95 to 2000. And it's great to have you here and to reminisce. Those are seminal years for the show. Very seminal years. But now getting back

to the fact that I just take an identity. Yeah, tell us more Groff mix-ups. So, I first started hearing about him. My manager had a Google alert on my name. I don't know why he would do that, but he did years ago. And then he said, you know, there's this guy doing theater around Boston named Jonathan Groff. And I was like, really?

Oh, this is before he was even on Broadway, like in Spring Awakens. I think he was doing rep theater. Yeah. Like in Spring Awakens. I think he was doing like rep theater or something. Okay. And he was young. Yeah. And of course I tried the like, well, I'm already in SAG. Right. Yeah, yeah.

So he's going to have to be Jonathan Q. Grom. Right. That rule doesn't exist anymore. The way David Bowie. Michael J. Fox could have been Michael Fox. Right, right. Now he would be Michael Fox. Oh, wow.

Yeah. Take a number, pal. How would that have affected history? I know. It would be so different. It wouldn't be the same. He needed that extra syllable. Yeah.

So then the next time I heard of my assistant, Alison Floral, who used to work at the time with Conan O'Brien, who's lovely. She had me on some kind of a Google Alert thing, too. And she found a review of a play. Actually, it was Spring Awakening, which was his breakthrough Broadway. And it was a reviewer who was enthusiastic about what he was seeing in terms of Jonathan's physical being. Are we talking private parts? He was very excited. Jonathan,

he, so he says something like, uh, the head of the play for me was young Jonathan Groff, who revealed a pair of spank worthyworthy buttocks in the third row or in the middle of the second act. Are you allowed to write things like that? I don't know. It was a blog.

It was The Times. He said it caused this reviewer to cream his jeans. Oh, my God. Oh, wow. Yeah. So, of course, Ali, floral like buttock was hilarious. Right. Cream my jeans. Sure. And my name were in the, wow. Yeah. So of course, Allie, floral, like, it was hilarious. Right. Cream my jeans and my name were in the same sentence.

Yeah. And then the other- It's not the first time either. No. It's something you're used to. Another thing that happened was- I saw Spring Awakening. Yes.

I don't remember- Any jeans creaming? I did cream in my jeans, but I don't remember those buttocks. That's me at Broadway shows. Spank-worthy buttocks. Wow. I think you had to be looking for them. It sounds like that reviewer was... I went because I thought you were starring in the show. So, go

ahead. What were you going to say? My dad, whenever Jonathan Groff's name would appear in the New York Times, would call me and be like, Jonathan Groff's name was in the New York Times again. Kind of bitter. What are we going to do about it? We've got to take him down.

He's kind of bitter for me. What's our plan? The other one, there are a few good ones. Another one I liked is I got a really nice signed letter from I think Anna Wintour. Oh. Oh, wow. Hand-delivered from a house in Los Angeles

that invited me and a guest to be her guest excuse me at the Costume Institute oh my god that's you know my Mike you know my wife

and she was like you have to go one of the reasons I love my wife is she was so super like she so believes in me I think on some level right

or pretends to yes no she didn't that she was like well of course of course it's you. No, you're a prominent, successful television writer and producer. Of course, Anna Wintour wants you to sit with her at her table at the Costume Institute

Gala. Can we go? And I'm like, honey, I think it's the other guy on the graph. And then your dad called. That son of a bitch. The other one got invited. I'd love to see what you'd wear to the costume. I know.

I wish you would have. Was that the Met Gala? I mean, is that? Yeah, that's what that invited. I'd love to see what you'd wear to the costume. I know. I wish you would have put. Ball. Was that the Met Gala? Yeah, that's what that is. Oh, yeah. It's the giant. That's a huge. I think it's the same thing, yeah.

Yeah. The Met Gala benefits the Costume Institute. Yeah. But it's like, it's a real who's who of. It's huge. Of the fashion world. Yeah. You used to count down the date every year.

I did. Costume walls coming in. And then one time I was flying back from New York. Yes. And Lea Michele was on my flight. It was a late flight coming back from the upfront, the television presentation things. Right. She was on my flight.

And she got down to baggage claim before me. And when I got there, there was a car had been sent for me. I think Sony Studios or somebody. I was there. It was a car had been sent for me. I think Sony Studios or somebody. I was there. It was in New York for some show. And they had sent a car, and that was very nice. And the limo driver had a sign that said Jonathan Groff. And she was arguing with the limo driver, trying to send him away, saying, well, he's like my best friend, and he's not coming to LA for another two weeks.

So we've gotten some bad information. Oh, man. What a lame name dropping. Excuse me. But that's also funny that she was like, well, I'll clear this up. Yes. I'm going to take this into my own hands. And then I'll let Jonathan know I scored.

Yeah. Try to score points with it. I finally met him. I was just going to ask you. Oh, good. I got to go to Hamilton. Like one of his last weeks in it. Got to go on stage, which was nice.

Somebody else had arranged that. And he could not have been nicer. Oh, I'm sure. Wow. He's lovely. Were you like, so do you get mixed up for me all the time? And he said no. His dad.

He doesn't. He gently, yes, to be nice, he said said yes it happens all the time but I don't know if it really happens he's like I get your creditors co-star in Hamilton

Daveed Diggs saw who was watching Black-ish and saw Jonathan's name and was confused and that was all he gave me yeah

and then that was about it he did not have a similar like Lea Michele sending away your car yeah because you work on Black-ish you're a showrunner on Black-ish I was at the time yes yes yeah Yeah. And then that was about it. He did not have a similar act like Lea Michele sending away her car. Yeah.

Because you work on Black-ish. You're a showrunner on Black-ish. I was at the time, yeah. Yes, yes. Yeah, I did that. That's how he saw the name. Yeah. Yeah. That's a big credit.

That one, they really linger on that one. You know, that's not one of the credits that just flies by. Right. It was a good show. That was a nice experience. That has been a nice experience. I'm still there a little bit. I'm actually helping out on Mixed-ish.

Oh, cool. That's great. I'm there a couple days a week helping them. Okay. Which is the Kenya Barris. Right. Extending the Kenya Barris brand. Is it a prequel?

It's a prequel, right? It follows Tracy's character, Rainbow, from when she was 12. Oh. So we invented a very strange backstory for her character that is sort of influenced by real-life events in Kenya's life in terms of who his wife was. Right. She grew up on a commune, the character. And so they leave a commune during a, whatever it is, a DEA raid or ATF raid. And they start a new life.

And we're picking that up in 1985 when she's 12 years old. Oh, wow. Yeah. Gary Cole, Mark Paul Gosselaar, Tika Sumter. Wow. Will there be crossovers since it's the 80s with the Goldbergs? I just assume. Are they in the same universe?

That seems like ABC synergy to me. I assume. I only assume. So you two started at Conan on the same universe? That seems like ABC synergy to me. I only assume. So you two started at Conan on the same day? Yes. Is that right? Unbelievable. January 30th? Sounds right. 1995.

Yes. And what were your first impressions of each other? Oh, no, we knew each other. Oh, you did? We had done stand-up for years together. Yes. I met you in Boston. I went up there to do some Knicks gigs, and I met you, and we hung out in Chinatown.

That's right. And I'd been in New York and seen you. You were very good, in addition to being a funny comic, a very everybody's favorite host at shows. So you were good, kept the shows moving and funny with the crowd. So I remember seeing you at Catch Rising Star, the old Catch Rising Star on First Avenue. I got everyone's credits correct. And you were very funny. We did some gigs together.

We did some gigs together. I remember meeting you in Northampton once. I was doing a college and you were doing a club or something. Oh, yeah. Massachusetts. Yes, I was doing a club. But the show I was doing, it was the best thing ever. It was a show at this rock club.

They were trying comedy and no one showed up. So they paid us and we didn't have to do a show. Oh, that's the best. I didn't mind driving four hours there. It's the best. It is the best. And then we actually were writing together, sort of near each other. Near each other at Comedy Central.

At Comedy Central. I was writing for Mark Maron on a show called Short Attention Span Theater that he was the host of. It was like a clip show. And you were writing. For Laura Keitlinger. Yeah. She had a show called Stand Up, Stand Up. So it was all the little intros and the interstitial things.

And then we both got hired the same day. Yeah, that's incredible. We were hearing both got hired the same day. That's incredible. We were hearing there was going to be openings. Right. We heard that Louis CK was moving on and maybe Dino or somebody else. So we both, we were really pretty good friends. And like both did submissions separately. And then I think we both.

You probably thought you were competing for the same spot. A little bit. But I remember like, I think you got the call first or I got the call first. I think whatever it was. Oh, yeah, you got the call first. And we both were like, hey, I got some news. Right. I got some news and we were, like, super relieved that we were, like, excited that we got to, like, start this job together.

Yes. Yeah. And then the first. Well, that's cool. So you already had a friend coming into work. I have to say that made a giant difference for me. Just because I, you know, I'm in my head all the time

anyway, freaking out. I freaked out anyway, but it calmed me down being able to talk to you. as a writer. I didn't know Ned before.

You didn't know? No. From Boston. He was a, yeah, very funny writer on the show. Brian Kiley was already a writer there. Yes.

So we knew people. Yeah. You knew those guys. They were Boston comics, so you knew them better. Yeah, that's true. I knew him to writer there. Yes. So we knew people. Yeah. You knew those guys. They were Boston comics. Yeah, yeah. So you knew them better. Yeah, that's true. I knew them to say hi to,

but you knew them well. Yeah. And Conan was okay hiring Boston comics? I'm serious. Oh, I thought you were being facetious. No, he was fine with it,

I guess. Yeah, I think so. He always had, it felt like he had some strange rules, but then later on, I think he was mad that he was accused of having rules that he didn't have. Oh, about hiring? About hiring. Oh. Like what? He had a blanket thing where everybody assumed that everybody who worked at Late Night as a writer had gone to Harvard because Cohn was a Harvard dude.

And there was like, Michael Gordon was kind of an outlier. There had been some people who were like writing in that late stage. Could have gotten into Harvard probably if we'd applied. Yeah. Yeah. If I decided to go to college. But then years later he did a thing at like the Harvard Lampoon, like some meeting or reunion thing.

And they were like, why do you hate Harvard writers? And he's like, I actually don't hate them. But he was, that was the thing that people bring up all the time. Like, oh, you're all Harvard grads. And some of the writers on Conan didn't even, no one cared where he went to school. Oh, yeah, it's so nice. No one's ever asked if you graduated what your GPA was.

Yeah, no, none of that. And I don't think people think, oh, yeah. It's like, yeah, no one's ever asked you know if you graduated what your GPA was yeah no none of that and I don't think people think oh yeah it's like yeah no one cares I think Conan your undergraduate degree

I think Conan and Robert Spiegel were not like snobby like that initial hiring and then Andy the input he had they leaned much more

heavily toward Chicago improv sketch people yeah yes Andy well Andy would just, there were openings, and Andy would recommend. Tommy Blacha. Yeah, really funny people.

Tommy Blacha. Brian McCann. Brian McCann. Brian Stack. Yep. Greg Cohen. Yep. Hey, Glazer.

Glazer, sure. Yeah, there was a big, big Chicago mafia for a while. Yeah. Like for only 15 years. I mean, that is the Mafia. The Chicago Mafia on the writing staff and then the number of interns who have gone on to the whole show business. It's ridiculous. That's true.

I worked with Angela Kinsey the other day. Yeah. We were talking about her time. That was before you and I were there. Oh, was she an intern? That was before Mike and I were there. I was like, I think 1994, first year,

maybe 93. Mindy Kaling. Mindy Kaling. John Krasinski. John Krasinski. I told John Krasinski, he called me from college and said,

I want to be an intern. I said, how'd you get this number? And he, I said, I thought you were the actor. Exactly. I set him up,

I think I said, yeah, and you want to be a script intern because that's where you get to be at the heart of the show the most, at least back in the day it was. You'd run the scripts around and deliver them and be there for the changes and stuff. And he did his internship. And then I, in the meantime, had left the show and come out to L.A. and had made a television pilot for the first time. So it was really the first time I had seen what the process of casting was and how hard it is to get hired as an actor and how much of a challenge and how much they go through and the testing process in front of the networks which is super grueling right so I came um I came back to New York and I was working on a show getting ready to develop a following year and he graduated from he had now graduated from college he said hey I want to take you out for a cup of coffee I was like

okay so we went out for coffee in Rockefeller Center and he says uh I want to take you out for a cup of coffee i was like okay so we went out for coffee in rockefeller center and he says uh i want to be an actor and i literally that's a bad idea do not really go straight to direct 100 i said you cannot do that you have to get out of the business unequivocally i was like it's too hard you're a bright guy you know do something else which he did he's a writer and a director and stuff. But I was like, you absolutely should not be an actor. And then the next time I saw him was like three years later at the upfronts. Right. And he was in the cast of The Office and he was like, wave to me.

Oh, that's great. Thanks for the advice. And you should have been like, that was a test and you passed. Exactly. You really wanted it. Wow, that's hilarious. That's funny. And Ellie Kemper was a- Oh, yeah, that's hilarious. That's funny. And Ellie Kemper was a... Oh yeah, that's right.

Vanessa Bayer, I think? Oh my God. Did you know that? No. I think so. She's not putting it on her resume. I think she was. There's a few. And some people became writers on the show

like Andrew Weinberg. And Andy Blitz. That's right. Yeah. Remember the intern book? Yes. We started it. They used to eat dinner with us every night.

Who? The interns. All of them? In our era when you and I were there? When I was there? Yes. And then I remember. Why did we buy dinner for all the interns?

I don't know, but we did. You sure it wasn't just the dinner interns? My memory was one guy. It must have been just the dinner interns. The interns had gotten the food, got to stay and eat. Right. But then one guy ruined it by, I think he asked you or someone else, like, can I ask a question? And it's like, yeah, sure, shoot.

How much do you guys make? Oh, no. And it was like, the next day it was like, no more interns. I forgot about that. That's right. Oh, Morgan Murphy was another intern. Oh, that's right. Morgan Murphy.

Very funny. Very funny. I'm forgetting. We're a real talent factory. For sure. There's more that I'm forgetting. Yeah, the intern book was a loose leaf binder that I think Ellie Brancic came up with the idea of doing, which was we had so many interns, and many of them were lovely, but we couldn't remember their names. And also, we wanted to be able to make fun of them for years after we left.

Right. So, we ended up, they had to do a Polaroid shot. That was the only reason we did it. Yeah. Because we would sit at dinner and go, oh, remember that? Run with the face thing? Yeah, yeah. And everyone's like, I don't know.

And that's where we're like, okay, we need a book. Is it still done? It's still done. Oh, remember that? Run with the face thing? Yeah, yeah. And everyone's like, I don't know. And that's where we're like, okay, we need a book. Is it still done? It's still done, yeah. Oh, really? I don't think I, I didn't know there was a book. Well, were you an intern? You weren't ever an intern. No, I wasn't.

That's why. But I always refer to people as like, oh, the two shugs guy. I mean, that's the only, there was a guy that always said shug for sugar. And that's how I remember him. Oh, man. You want one sugar, two shugs. The guy was in a hurry. How are you not going to remember that?

He didn't have time to say the whole word. He was on the move. Melendz, they like to abbreviate. Abreach. Yeah, that's true. They're saving those extra syllables to buy a house. My son told me there's this app you can get. It's something where it will, every time the word millennial comes up on your computer, it will change it to snake. Oh, yeah.

I did hear about this. And then there was something, like someone had published, or maybe a journalist had published something where they forgot to change it back. Oh, and they published an article? And they published it that way, yeah. Do you remember our first day, our first night? Were you going to tell that story? I think you were. No, because I don't remember anything. Our first day, you had an idea for a bit.

I don't remember what it was. But like Marsh McCall said, you guys go produce that. So we ended up. On your first day? On our first day. That's a lot. And I do remember it was a phone call, a congratulatory phone call from the president to someone, the Super Bowl winners. Okay.

Yeah. So was it, do we have to get Smigel to do his voice? No, we just. Maybe. I don't remember. I remember editing it in that janky old NBC edit room with Chuck Dijon. Right. Who was this lifer editor guy.

Who would yell at us. Who yelled at us. He was super cranky. And if you were a new writer, he really, because he had you over the barrel, he'd be like, shut up and listen. I'm going to tell you how to edit a piece. And what I do is I'm a chef. Right.

I have different elements, the sound and the tape. And I concoct a kind of a stew that's delicious with my food. Oh, my God. Shut up and listen. This is an audio edit only. Don't look at the screen. He was such a gruff but lovable bear. Yes.

Mostly lovable. Yes. Very gruff. And back then there were tapes, tape machines. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Physical tape machines. Right.

So we produced this bit, yours, I remember helping out. And Marshall McCall was very cool. He was the head writer. He was the head writer. He was very good about like, that's a good idea. Go and do it. Yes. Oh, okay.

And he got us involved right away. Right, right. Yeah, he was great. But that night, we were staying late and eating our heavy food. And Conan had done some interviews or something or whatever after the show. And he came into the room on the writer's room. I probably have embellished this story, but he got up. I recall him getting up on the table, maybe. Maybe it was just on a desk.

All right. In that big conference room with his guitar, which he would walk around with strumming, as he sure still does, singing, serenading you and me with, I can't sing, but these are the guys. They're here to ruin my show. Like, that was his long, elaborate. I mean, this sounds very on-brand.

Very on-brand, elaborate, well rhyming. Yes. Takedown of the two new guys who he was convinced were there to wreck his show for him. On their first day. Yeah. I didn't remember that. You don't remember that? No.

You blocked it out. I did. I'm sure I took it all literally. I'm like, oh God, this guy hates me so much. He's written a song about it. That's – Yeah, for my first – Let the rest of the staff write a song. Really?

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. He workshopped it. He took credit for it. Right, right, right. And then the fantastic thing is, and I've never talked to you about this, you – oh, Marsh McCall left the show in like we'd only been there like eight months maybe

and he had only been the head writer for maybe 11 something like that yeah but he got a job on a sitcom

and he moved to LA he got his job I believe on a show called Don't Forget Your Toothbrush right it was a British import like a variety show

but he was dying to get back to LA because his girlfriend at the time was living here. And he didn't really want to be in New York. And he grew up in California. He grew up in California.

So he wanted out. So he left. And you became the head writer. After eight months? Yes. That's unbelievable. Yes. And, you know, there are all these other veteran writers there.

Oh, I really want to hear about that. Yes, you. But you were the guy for the job. Like, there was no hear about that. Yes, you. But you were the guy for the job. There was no question about it. And I'm wondering, what was that like? Were you scared at all? I was terrified. To me, you're a very confident guy.

But I was wondering on some level, were you? Well, you know, managing the more senior writers. Yes. There's a couple of things. I always say, I talk to kids from my college graduating who want to get into the business and I always say like,

it helps. I was not the best writer. Like there are, I would say you were a funnier writer than I was, Mark Sweeney and Brian Richter

was hilarious and Ned Goldreier was hilarious and all these really funny people who were writers there when I was there but Michael Gordon

but I was good at just, I think some people were not as good, I will say, remembering like, oh, I came up with a funny idea for a sketch, and I wrote it out, and I put it on your desk, and you said we should do it. And I'm like, yeah, but did you remember to call Bill Tull, the prop guy, the mailbox full of blood that we need for the sketch? You have to call the prop guy and get the mailbox full of blood

or else the sketch doesn't work. Oh, no, I didn't remember to call. And like, so I was, I think, good at like producing it as well. And also having, you know, a modicum maybe of emotional intelligence of like, how's Conan feeling about this? Or what's the best thing to do here? Who would be good to put in charge of that thing? Right.

And the other thing that I think helped me a lot was, weirdly, do you remember the boat show? I do remember the boat show. So, we did this circle line. We did the show from the circle line, which is the boat that goes around Manhattan. Oh, okay. And we had like all these bits and stuff. And I think I kind of got tapped to be like the producer, the writer who was producing a lot of bits for that show. Yes. For that episode.

And it was really intense and harrowing. And we had to race back and edit it in time. Yes. There was a sound problem, I remember. And the whole thing was really an enormous, crazy undertaking. It was. I think because I was good at, like, in that situation, Jeff Ross and Connor were like, Marsh is gone and somebody's got to do this.

Well, I remember Marsh got sick that day. Oh, I forgot that. He was sick and he- Was he seasick from the circle? I don't know. But he- It's a very gentle boat ride. He kind of literally was just like-

Oh, that's right. I've got to bow out. Oh, he had diarrhea. And you were right there. And you just. I'd been down working. Right. That's right.

I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah. And you flawlessly took over. And it was great. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was fate. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. So, I think that had a lot to do with it. It's just like. It's like an understudy situation. You know, it's like without warning, boom. I think it's true of like in general like i i'm a good writer i'm not gonna say i'm a good writer but i am also good at like you know the show

running thing or whatever where you like if you're willing to let other really other smart you know ambitious heart you know uh passionate people help you do something, you can actually make it good. Right. And it makes you, it helps you to empower everyone else. Exactly. Exactly, exactly. Well, no, but it is, it's a different skill.

I mean, some people are really, really funny in a room, or some people are brilliant writers on the page, but then they don't have that other part of their brain that's kind of keeping all the different, you know, pots on the stove. Right, right. And so that's a special person.

Just be a little bit more mediocre in the writing than other people. And a little better at making the trains run on time. But, you know, Conan would also say, he's like, oh, man, Groff just, like, you know, he's the biggest ball buster ever. Oh, and especially for the, I mean, he loves to beat up on the head writer. Yes. So he must have found you very punchable. Yeah, yeah.

But he said you would never give in. Like, you were just unflappable. You would not, he could not get you. Really? Yeah. I mean, unless he's doing, unless he was, you know, changing history. It might be a little bit of revisionist history. He might be revisionist. I think you, Mike Sweeney, always had a good, like you gave it right back to him.

And I never gave it right back to him. I probably had like this weird, he probably was like, I don't know. I had like a weird patrician dignity or something where I didn't engage with him that much and maybe it freaked him out. I think it did. He didn't blow that much shit at me over the years. Right. The appropriate amount. And most of it was hilarious.

So you just go with it. Yes. But you would actually like way more than I ever dared to would like give it right back to him, which was great. And that was your relationship. That's why you endured a long time. I'd go through five or six year phases where I'd just be like, oh, I'm getting crapped out of me. The only time I was really mad at him, I remember, was there was some desk piece and a couple of the jokes didn't work. I think it was verbal jokes or whatever.

And he actually literally, he was so wound up. I came over in the first commercial break just to check in. Right. Is there anything you're going to want to edit out? And he just like kind of shook his fist at me and I was like, what the fuck? Oh my God. And I was really mad. I got quiet.

I think I didn't talk to him for a couple of days. Yeah. He never apologized, but I'm sure he, and I'm sure he won't remember it, but Conan, if you're listening. He shook his, you hurt my feelings in 1996. He shook his fist to you. I'll get you, John Grohl. He was like, argh.

He was one of those, argh. He was always half pirate, though, and he's mad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. If you called him on it, he'd be like, I was doing the pirates. Right, right. The pugilistic pirate. Yeah.

No, it is like, it's kind of a marriage. Like, the one or two times I would really be mad. I would be like, I've got to just go and say, you know what? I'm upset. Right. And part of me is like, I know I'll feel better in the short term. And he's totally like, yeah, okay. And then it becomes.

Oh, my God. It's 20 times worse oh no so it's it's a very Pyrrhic victory it's such a Pyrrhic victory because he does he has the legitimate

like I'm really sorry I didn't mean that or whatever and then it's just fuel but then at the next date we're going to hurt Sweeney's feelings but that sincerity

will hurt you yeah it comes at a price it all just states overnight in his sleep and it's like oh I got I found a weakness.

Yeah. More weaknesses. A weakness. Hilarious. I know. It's crazy that, I mean, you two have had this very specific experience that not many people in the world ever will have, which is basically. It's true. It's like being two of Liz Taylor's husbands.

Yeah. You know what's weird? We all live... There's like a weird late night showrunner block that we live, because you live literally a stone's throw from me. Yes. In Los Angeles. And then another guy...

I invited you to do this over the fence. There's Tim Long. I don't think I'm giving anything away to say that Tim Long lives also at Stone's Throne. He's a former Letterman head writer. Was he a head writer in Letterman? Yeah. I think around the time I was

at some point, maybe after I was at Conan, but literally we live within about 50 yards. It's a mental hospital. They've convinced you that it's a neighborhood. Speaking of late night you mentioned something earlier

someone I hadn't thought about in ages Neil Schatz Neil Schatz Neil Schatz was our special effects guy at

NBC in New York he was a nice guy he his effects didn't always work. My favorite one ever, either they didn't work, like they were supposed to be like blood coming out of something.

I keep mentioning blood. Or like confetti is supposed to go off, and it was always like, is this going to work? Oh, no. A lot of times it did. It's so timing dependent. It's super timing dependent. And he was a nice nice guy but he

had been at nbc for a while and i think he probably thought we were a bunch of idiots right but i remember there was one thing where we're like okay conan can't get injured we just have to make sure conan can't get injured it was like conan on the skateboard with some rocket like propulsion thing that he's holding oh it's a fire extinguisher it's a fire extinguisher. It's a fire extinguisher, and that was going to propel him backwards. Yes. Oh, my God. And he had to go out through the double doors into the airlock. And Neil had guaranteed that it would go off without a hitch.

And Conan wouldn't get hurt, and it was a big— What could go wrong? What could go wrong? And he slammed into a wall of the studio, right? He veered to the left veered oh so it worked too well he veered to the left and like smashed into the doorway and you know of course we had to show it again in slow motion but but he literally was but there is a great moment like in the just as he's going out to commercial, Neil runs over. Runs out.

And you just see Cullen turn and just. And shakes his fist. Stare at him. Yeah, exactly. I'll get you. The same treatment. You and Groff. Shats and Groff.

Grrr. That's, I mean, he would never do something like that now, I think, because of so many times that it's gone wrong. Yeah. I think they all at some point say,

I'm just not doing that stuff anymore. There's like a famous thing where Letterman. Or their insurance says it. Right, right. Letterman went into a big bowl of Rice Krispies as a stunt, like, you know, back in the late night days. Right. He's like, whatever the bit was, he's going to go into a suit. I think with a,

I think he maybe had something that triggered the Rice Krispies to pop or something, whatever. Supposedly, they sucked up all the oxygen in the, they didn't know that it was a, I don't know. I'm not sure I have this story exactly right. But they, somehow like the popping or something created like a carbon dioxide thing or something. And he like nearly passed out and drowned in a giant bowl of Rice Krispies. Oh no. From some late night stunt. Wow. So I could imagine. Oh, what a way to go. side thing or something and he like nearly passed out and drowned in a giant bowl of Rice Krispies oh no

from some late night stunt wow so I could imagine oh what a way to go that's a good way to go somebody's gonna write to Earwolf

and have the right details on that I'm sure I got 30% right well Dave's a big listener sure Conan doesn't listen but Dave does

does Conan not listen it always skips a generation he claims to not listen but I like to imagine that he does well we'll see he wants you to he's a trap

it's a trap he wants you to think he doesn't listen and then you'll be summarily fired I never talk to him about it that's how I handle it after Rodman's movie

he really can't have a problem with anybody portraying him in any way that's true right you're talking about Conan O'Brien

Conan Can't Stop Can't Stop yeah that's the name of it Rodman Flunder documentary that was the director yeah about his

the tour back in 2010 yeah yeah he was pretty brutally honest brutally honest it is brutally honest yeah

yeah yeah that was I mean I was there I mean, I was there the whole time. That was a long slog. It was fun. It was exciting doing all those shows. Yeah, that was a weird

personal time. Right, right, right. We were writing monologue jokes every day for each city, so Matt O'Brien went on the trip, too. And a lot of the writers wrote the sketches for the show because it was kind of like a variety show. But yeah, it was intense.

There were times when the camera would be in, like Rodman would be in the room with the camera, and I just started leaving the room because it was just, you know. Well, yeah, I'm sure when the camera's there, it's a little different. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Oh, so when you left. Yes.

You left, right? How long were you the head writer? I started, I think, in September of 2000, and I left. In 95. In 95. And you left in September of 2000, and I left. In 95. In 95. And you left in September of 2000. Sorry, thank you. Yes.

I started September 95 and left around September 2000. Five years. Five years, yeah. And right after Andy left. Andy had left in May of 2000. Oh, yeah. That's right. So there was a few months I saw a glimpse of that particular future.

And you knew that was time to jump ship. I did love that. Andy's great. That was a good experience, though, I think, for Conan. Yes. Just learning to host a show on his own without having a sidekick. So that was a good experience. That worked out kind of great in a way because he had those years build a different set of muscles and then was able to reincorporate Andy.

I agree with that. But then you and Conan created a show for Andy. Oh, we did. That was so fun. Andy Barker. It's called Andy Barker PI. And Conan had this idea that he said was a little bit based on Dan Goor

in a way. Did you know that? No. Yeah. I don't know Dan all that well. Dan's a writer at Conan late night after I was there. Yeah. Dan's been on the show. He's been on the podcast. And he's been on that.

And he's now going to see you guys for ripping off his life story. He's also a showrunner. Yeah. Yeah. Showrunner. It's good. On Brooklyn Nine-Nine. That kind of Andy Barker, Andy Richter played Andy Barker, P.I., who was a private investigator, who had fallen into that trade.

He was an accountant who just starts to hang out his own shingle to become his own little firm. And business is really slow. And then one day this mysterious Russian woman shows up and tries to hire him as a private detective. And it turns out that his old office was this detective's office from years ago so he goes and finds the old guy and right reunites with him a little bit and then tony hale played the guy who this is how long ago this was the video store owner oh downstairs was in this little shopping mall complex conan got this idea by wondering like who are the accountants or the the the uh life insurance sales salesman or the dentist on the second floor

of like a two-story shopping complex off the freeway in Connecticut near his country house. It's like, I wonder what those people are like. And the idea of this sort of super earnest person who's like superpower almost is his goodness and decency and kind of straight shooteriness was something that he had felt like Dan kind of had some of that. Again, I don't know Dan all that well, but this kind of like, okay, well, I think that's a good idea. I'm going to figure out how to do that.

You know, a kind of can-do like thing. Yeah, I could see that. Yeah. So he was like, and I had met Dan a few times and I was like, I got tracks. Yeah. But then when we were starting to like figure out who could play it, we kind of looked at each other and we're like, oh, we have to see if Andy Richter will do this. Yeah.

Dan Gore turned it down. Dan Gore turned it down. Yeah. So NBC approved and we got to make just, I think, six episodes. Oh, yeah. It's smaller and smaller numbers of episodes that I get to do. The first thing I did, I got ordered for seven episodes and then six. And Tony Hale, that's like-

I know. It was coming off of Arrested. I think Andy had done an episode of Arrested, so he knew him. Oh, that's right. He did. Oh, had he done Arrested already? He played triplets or something? And they were maybe quintuplets even.

I thought it was before Arrested Development. No. Oh, okay. So I made a show in 2002 with Jason Bateman called The Jake Effect right for NBC right before he got Arrested Development

oh wow and that went seven episodes okay and then I made Andy Barker PI with Tony Hale right after Arrested Development oh wow

so I am kind of a failure bookend for Arrested Development stars did you on their way to other things because then of of course, Tony went into Veep a few years after that. Right.

Has won multiple Emmys. Jason Bateman won an Emmy for director. He did? Oh. Did you tell him not to go into directing? That's hilarious. I should have. Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, we got to write that show. It was a really lovely little show, and we got to cast some fun. Clea Lewis was – Did Conan contribute in the writing as well? Yes. He contributed in the original concept, and then he pitched story ideas.

And then he pitched a lot of – gave me tons of notes on the pilot. He came out for the table read of the pilot. And I remember he's – I had just my writer friends helping helping me punch up the pilot which you do after you know you did table read and we went back to to somebody's office in at Universal and we're gonna got some pizza got some pizza the whole thing we're gonna rewrite it and Conan came and stayed he had like a busy schedule because this is right before the Tonight Show like yourself so he was starting to get that's starting to get really busy and everything and he um but he was i remember him lying on the floor of this office and he felt a little bit like he's like effortlessly going to prove that he was funnier than everybody in the room which kind

there was one joke that he pitched where like we're trying to come up with a line to for i think tony hale's character to remember what this old detective had been like when he used to live there, when he used to have his offices there. And Conan says, pitch for Tony's character, like, yeah, he's kind of a weird guy. Crazy temper. I once saw him throw a can of peaches at a dog. And I was like, well, and that went into the script and is in the pilot. Because it's a very Conan O was like, well, and that went into the script and is in the pilot because I was like a very Conan O'Brien.

Yeah. Good specifics. A can of peaches at a dog. Yeah. Showing off. Yeah. That's funny. So he helped out and then he was, but it went away so quickly.

We did six episodes. I mean, now that's like a whole British series. I know. I know. That would be a little Netflix. Yeah, BBC show. Yeah. Instead of 22 episodes.

I know. How is that? I've done 24 episodes of Black-ish. Oh, wow. For those first few years. Really? Yeah. Still, I think that's probably what they'll do again this year.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I can't imagine that i've made uh i was i was supposed to i was developing a show and i hadn't had a chance to pitch it yet and then somebody at nbc this is around 2002 um said um carrie burke the executive at nbc i was in her offices to say hello i was in from new york and she had just hung up the phone so hi welcome i just got off the phone with rupert everett and he wants to do a show for NBC and I want you to write it.

And I was like, wait, what? Okay. Remember Rupert Everett from My Best Friend's Wife? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So I had to like shelve what I was developing. It's the thing that actually became that show with Jason Bateman and Chase's Rupert Everett project.

And it turns out he had a whole idea and it wasn't a great idea. And I pitched a different idea. Right, right. He pitched a fish in water story, which was like, it was the British ambassador. I'm a British guy who gets named the British ambassador. And I'm inept. I'm like, but that's the British ambassador of the United States. What if you were a British guy who gets elected to the US Senate or something?

That would be a fish in water. Could we do that? Whatever. It was all terrible. Anyway, my idea sucked too. But anyway, I remember having this big meet and greet with him. I remember having this meeting with him the morning to pitch my take on the whole thing. And he had just come over from NBC.

First time he'd been in the States since they bought this idea or this idea to do the show and he looked we're meeting it at a bungalow over universal and he walks in he's kind of shell shocked and he's like um so i was just meeting our friends at nbc i'm like yeah how'd it go it goes good apparently the the goal is to make a hundred of these episodes i was was like, yeah. He goes, a hundred? I thought we would do six or seven and then take some, he had seen like The Office. And then have a vacation.

Maybe do a special Christmas episode. Right, right, right. I was like, yeah, man, this is America. We're going to make, everybody's going to get rich. We're going to make a lot of episodes. We're capitalists.

No time off. No time off. No Euro vacations. We're going to make a hundred forgettable episodes of this show. And you still won't have insurance. I love that. Yeah, that's really funny.

So, yeah. Turned and headed straight to the airport. I imagine they still do that where they take talented writers and talent and just try to throw them together on things. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely how the business works. But I like, always like the kind of

more organic thing, like, right, for somebody you've known for longer. Like, the Always Sunny guys is a perfect example of, like, they kind of all knew each other

and they end up knowing each other's rhythms and they create this hilarious world and it's a thing that endures. And it's more unique. It's got a unique voice, of course. Yeah, ordinary David and Jerry Seinfeld.

Right. But that being said, there's definitely arranged marriages that can work out really well if you're open to it. Yeah, yeah. For sure. I don't think Kenya Barris and Anthony Anderson really knew each other that much before Black-ish, but then they sat down and talked about it and said like, this is a, you know, I relate to what your situation is as a father and a black guy growing up in LA. And I could tell a version of that story and let's do it. And, you know, they hit it off. Or Kenya and I, I'd never met Kenya before.

Right. We ended up working together. Yeah, a long time. For a long time, yeah. Yeah. Oh, so Anthony was already... Anthony's a producer on that show, an executive producer, so I think Kenny had the

idea. It's his life, basically. But then when he sat down with Anthony, Anthony was like, oh my God, I know exactly what you're talking about. I could play that, and then they took it out together. Oh, that's great. Yeah, that's great. That's nice. It's a great show, too. Because you can tell sometimes when it's like, oh, maybe a celebrity that's looking for a project found something. It's sort of a stretch.

But they wanted a vehicle for themselves. Right. But I think that for every one where you feel like it's a stretch, there's probably ones that were just as arranged where it just worked. Yeah. And maybe people, especially with like fresh faces that have, like, you know, when you're casting 25-year-olds and they haven't, don't have that much, you know, like John Krasinski is a perfect example. Like Greg Daniels didn't have any relationship with John Krasinski or, you know, Jenna Fisher or whatever, but they just, you know, peopled that world and it clicks, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. It's cool. Yeah. Are you in the middle of casting now for your, no, I just sold a show on Friday. Oh my God.

Congratulations. Wow. That's great. Yeah. A pilot idea. Let's go spend that money. But I have to write it now. So I'm not going to be casting.

Mistake. You should never have pitched it. What were you thinking? It's, it's so bad. What's the the i mean what's the time frame for that how much uh i'm a teeny bit on the later side of selling for this is a network it's for abc so but it's not too late but you know we'll have to get an outline and together in a few weeks and then um story area we already kind of pitched the idea for the pilot story, but an outline for that. And then they usually want to see a script before Christmas. Yeah.

Although I usually end up adding it after Christmas, but you can do. Right. And when you say we, do you have a – Oh, I'm writing it with someone, yeah. Oh, good. Writing alone is so hard. It is. And it's so not actually how you make good half-hour television.

I think it's so much of a group effort that it's always like this emphasis on like what's your idea and what's your idea and I was like you know what I don't want to do that this year so I work I'm working with a woman named Elena Crivello who's a writer I worked with I was supervising a pilot of hers five years ago that ended up not going I really liked her and I just remembered like oh she'd be somebody see what she's doing this development season so I called her up, and we got together, and she liked an area that I was thinking about, and she added a ton to it. And so we're writing it together. That's great.

That's really cool, yeah. When you have something to write with where you just hit it off, it's so much fun. Oh, my God. And it's fun, and then it just goes fast. It goes so much faster. I mean, part of what's fun about being funny is making somebody else laugh. So if like you're sitting there writing with somebody and you make them laugh or they make you laugh, it's just so much more. Yes.

And somebody's usually going to have a better joke than you or be inspired by your good joke to write a great joke. So it's definitely better. Right. Because like the best comedy shows, the best half hours are, like, they're generally not one person. I mean, there's cool. I mean, there's the Phoebe Waller Bridges of the world. Right. There's not very many of them.

No. Not very many of them. And those tend to be, you know, super personal. There was only two seasons. And a little dramatic, maybe, at times. Yeah. But I think, you know, there's not one. When you see written by on an episode of The Simpsons, that's 25 people. Yeah. But I think, you know, there's not one, when you see written by

on an episode of The Simpsons, that's 25 people contributing jokes. You just need somebody who can shepherd it. Put it on paper. Right. Yeah.

And then you need a showrunner who can make sure that, you know, the show still has a unique voice and something to say and it doesn't feel like just a joke fest. Right.

Yeah. Which can happen. That is, oh, what were you going to say? No, no, no. I was just going to say, I mean, did you know, did you have a sense when you were working at Conan that you wanted to go into sitcoms or was that? I've been pretty good about like every time I get to a thing, being appreciative of what that is.

And I remember, I'm sure you felt this too, walking into that building in 30 Rock, walking into 30 Rock at Rockefeller Center and just going like, I can't believe I'm getting to go in and work in this building where Steve Allen and many decades of Saturday Night Live and Letterman and Matt Lauer. Right.

And Matt Lauer. I just like live at five with Chuck Scarborough and Sue Simmons. We're the greats. Yeah. Just hung theirauer. I just like live at five with Chuck Scarborough and Sue Simmons. We're the greats. Yeah. Just hung their shingles and strutted their stuff. But I was like always like definitely appreciative of those moments while you're there. So I stayed at Conan like, you know, I stayed at five years and I, it was the heyday of like of like oh come out to LA and make a

TV show. I resisted and I liked being in New York. But once I started to I will say once I got the opportunity to write in a

somewhat longer form I took to it. Oh I can actually have an emotional connection between characters as opposed to like how do we

killing them off at the end. Exactly. Having somebody run on in running shorts and shoot the bear, you know, the master, whatever. In under two and a half minutes. Exactly. But I love that discipline of Conan,

especially in those years where it was like, what's the funniest pure shot of weird thing that we can come up with? You know, the FedEx Pope or, you know, the Mastery of the Bear. Right, right, right. I love that you referenced FedEx Pope. FedEx Pope. Right. You know, the FedEx Pope or, you know, the Mastery of the Bear. Right, right, right. I love that you referenced FedEx Pope. FedEx Pope.

Yes. It's canon. You know what bit I remember? I think this was a Michael Gordon bit where, I think where, it was the Conan's, where Andy would grant Conan his birthday wishes. Yes. I don't know if he created the bit, but I think it was a Michael Gordon pitch where Conan says to Andy, yeah andy says i'll grant

you birthday wishes and one of them was uh conan's like well i just once i'd like my father to tell me he loves me oh right and andy goes well i called your father up and he he wouldn't agree to do that but we got an actor named howard laniato to come out and he's like this distinguished looking new york theater actor coming out and comes up behind the desk at Conan and looks him in the eye

and he goes I can't he actually starts Conan I want to tell you that and you think it's really going to be emotional yeah

I can't do it so the actor paid to say I love you it's great but I loved that's I love you. It's great. But I loved coming up with and being part of that world where you're just coming up with those discreet, hilarious moments of stuff. But then when I actually switched to half hours, it's like, oh, this could actually be about a thing. And then Black-ish for the last five years has been like, oh, my God, you can actually really talk about stuff maybe and have a show that means something in the culture.

Even though nobody watches network television anymore. Right, right. And the numbers are tragic. I think that's one of the only ones that people watch. Yeah. Yeah. But even the numbers, it's hilarious how much. Oh, really?

Well, I mean, yeah. You still look at ratings. People watch it over time. But the overnight ratings, which even five or six years ago was still a thing, it's just not. It's shocking. It's shocking. They're talking about the Nielsen ratings, and they still have people with boxes. They have Nielsen houses still, where meanwhile, everything is digitized.

But that's such a specific demographic of people, probably. It is. People who show up at Tuesday at 9 to watch their show. Right. It just seems so archaic. Especially now where we could call down to our web team and ask how many people watched our videos in Portugal and they'll give you the exact number. Yeah. So you just sold this pilot. Yes.

That's incredible. At this point, are you just, do you go in every pitch season with something? I mean, do you sort of set that as a goal? Like I'm going to pitch something. It depends on whether I'm developing that year or not. So this is a year I decided to develop. So I was on Black-ish during the summer for a couple of days a week while I was starting to think of some ideas. it to develop so i was i was on blackish during the summer for a couple of days a week while i

was starting to like think of some ideas and then um and then i switched over to mixed dish for a couple days a week instead but meanwhile thinking of different ideas so this is a year that i sort of say oh this is a year i'll try to develop um and and sell something yeah i'm also. We need a new gazebo. Exactly. Chow. You know, I can vouch for that as a neighbor. Well, it's, but yeah, you go and, yeah, it's pitch season for network. But the nice thing is that I'm actually, you know, in a, have a deal with ABC Studios where, like, I can take things out. But they don't totally say that I have to just sell to the ABC Network. Oh, cool. Because they're also now trying to sell to Hulu and FX and Disney Plus.

So there's a variety of places. Because ABC Studios could produce something for one of those other places. Yeah, that's so complicated. Especially in the wake of that merger, that Disney- Yes. Fox merger. Oh, right. There's supposedly more avenues to sell things.

Oh, that's good. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's certainly avenues. And it's also like people are just watching, you watching. Your kids don't know where they see things. They just find out about a show, right? And so the more that that mentality seeps over to creators, I think you can sort of hopefully find the platform that makes the most sense for a show.

Right. As opposed to just trying to come up with a network show. That being said, I kind of like network television. It's been good to me. And I like the somewhat bigger, broader platform of it. And I think because there's still content restrictions in terms of language and stuff, you have to be – I mean, I still think some of the – I mean, it's changed. But for a long time, even with cable and the beginnings of streaming, it still felt like the funniest shows were 30 Rock and The Office and Parks and Recreation.

The other shows just add sex, and that's really it. I do think now, I mean, there's still The Good Place. I was going to say, The Good Place is another example. I'm proud of Black-ish. Modern Family and The New Girl, a lot of good shows, but I do

think that it's started to get now we're like oh the streaming things are also really funny too yes and arresting too like something like

Fleabag or yeah do you have you ever had to go to having said that you like the restrictions have you ever had to go to the mat still

with where you felt like they were not allowing stuff? Oh, yeah. Too prudish about something. Or you wanted to push the envelope a little bit? I've been at ABC for a long time

and it's been interesting to see their evolution because they really were the Disney-owned network for a long, long time. I did a show called Happy Endings for a few seasons.

Right. And that was sort of young people and a lot of sex jokes and stuff. And it was definitely, we pushed the, we had to get into a lot of arguments there and sometimes on blackish too, but it's been interesting to see ABC slowly.

I think realize that without really putting themselves in a tricky position, they have to do something to make sure people still feel like connected to these shows in a world where they can see content that feels realer or grittier or more authentic right so that's how i think they let blackish do some of the things topically yeah in terms of the topics that we took on right um or maybe some of the language restrictions or content restrictions that they've eased up on a little bit just to kind of make it not so. Just compete. Just because people can get anything they want anytime.

Well, there's that big controversy on Black-ish with that one. Yeah. Were you there during all that? I was. That was a year, two years ago that I was developing also. So I wasn't running the show that season. Okay. But I was around.

Yeah, that was complicated. Right. I can't, not really supposed to talk about it. around. Yeah, that was complicated. Right. I'm not really supposed to talk about it. I understand. But it was like, yeah, it was, I think, a series of misunderstandings. Right. Things that weren't handled great by some things. Right.

Yeah. Okay. We'll leave it at that. We will leave it at that. Yeah. You worked with Adam, is it Pally or Polly? Adam Pally. Oh, yeah.

On Happy Endings.. Happy Endings. On Happy Endings. I think he's really. He's so funny. I mean, that cast was ridiculous. The cast was great. It was like the new friends. Damon Wayans Jr., Casey Wilson, Eliza Koop, Zach Knighton, Alicia Cuthbert, and Adam Pally.

Yeah. All lovely and super funny. I loved that show. That must have been fun to do. Oh, it was super fun. And it was three seasons. Were you there from the beginning? Yeah. Oh, well, funny. I love that show. That must have been fun to do. Oh, it was super fun. And it was three seasons. Were you there from the beginning? Yeah.

Well, I didn't create it. David Kasp created it, but I came on after it got picked up and got to help him run it. And I ran it, and then we brought on Josh Beisel and Gail Lerner for a couple seasons, helped us run it. And it was a great experience. But it was very, i always tell this story david casp was kind of a film writer before and he never run a tv show and he didn't really like writing with other people when i first met him he was it was hard for him and he was not the show wasn't particularly jokey his original script and then i said like well you know what let's we have

some scenes to work on. Why don't you invite a couple of funny friends and I'll invite some funny people. So I invited like three or four funny writers and he invited his friends, Matthew and Daniel Libin, who are very funny. And all of a sudden he saw this room of people make this thing so funny. And he went from a guy like, I don't know if I want it to be too jokey. And we stuffed that show with jokes every 15 seconds. Did he have an immediate epiphany?

Was he just like, oh, wow. I think he enjoyed being in a room. He saw that it was more fun. And then we also had really good casting. And I think you also were like, oh, any of those people can just deliver a huge joke. Right. Yeah. Would they improvise a bit?

Yes. Adam improvised the most. Sometimes at the least opportune times. Like the TCA's first season, he said some stuff. The TCA's are the Television Critics Association. Right. Yeah. So you do a panel?

You do a panel. And on a panel, he said something obnoxious that made the television reporter from the Utah paper go like, this guy is an asshole. Right. But we got past it. But it was great press. It was great press. But he would improvise a lot. And then all of them did KC a lot. And Damon Wayans would improvise a lot. And then all of them did Casey a lot. And Damon Wayans would improvise and be hilarious.

And you could always use him. And Eliza Koop especially were great together at the ends of scenes. But also, Damon was really cool because he would think of something really funny that he could say and then go, wait, that might be funnier if Zack Knighton said it. Oh, wow. I was like, that's cool. Oh, my God. That is very generous. Very generous.

And also someone who's confident about their own talent. That they're like, you know what? I'm going to spread it around. Yeah. He was great. That's great. Wow. That's wonderful.

Wow. Yeah, you worked on some really great ensembles. Yeah, that was fun. I got to work at How I Met Your Mother for a couple of seasons, too. Oh, cool. That was cool, yeah. What a great ensemble yeah got to be there

during the Britney Spears kind of coming out of her strange thing that she was in where

she had shaved her head yeah the umbrella yeah so we used her as a guest star which was oh yeah wow strange taking advantage of someone's fragile situation The umbrella. Yeah. So we used her as a guest star, which was strange. Oh, yeah. Wow.

Taking advantage of someone's fragile situation. I applaud it. I think it's great. Look, you do what you got to do, guys. It's showbiz. to do or that's kind of in the back of your mind that like another form or i don't know live show or movie or i don't know say now that's or maybe you've done it all you know i would love to do a cool streaming show where you did 10 episodes and made them great because i have been in network television for a long time even though a couple of things I've made had short orders. Right. In general, it's been a lot of 22, 24 episodes, which is fantastic and wonderful.

But it would be nice to just go like, here's, this is only eight episodes and it's not because it sucked and was canceled. It's because that's all it was ever supposed to be for season one. And that would be really neat, I think, to like just really. Just tell a story over that. Tell a story over that and really dig in and make them great. So I'm looking forward to trying to do that at some point. That's cool. Okay, do you think you can do that with this idea you just pitched?

I sold—ABC Network bought it, so theoretically— So they want 100 episodes. Right, right, right. I think that they are moving more to the realization that they need to not just do 24 episodes and expect people to show up and maybe have smaller windows. Batches. I think Good Place has been smaller batches for the last little bit. Yeah. And that seems to work for them.

Yeah. And they decided to end the show after four seasons. Exactly. It had an end time. It wasn't about, let's make 130 of these. It was like, let's make, let's tell our story. Let's go out on top, yeah. For sure.

Let's not wait for people to get sick of us. That's right. That's what we're doing. Yeah. I feel it. Yeah, we're almost, our season of this podcast is almost up. Yes. How many of these have you done?

30, this, 34. This is 34. Episode 34? Mm-hmm. Yeah. How many of these have you done? 30, 34. This is 34. Episode 34? Yeah. Who's the worst guest? Can you say? I was on the first show. Conan has not been a guest?

He was on the first show. He was on the first show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He hasn't been back. And then it's like, we go on and, you know, we were on the travel show

with him. We're like, we're in Greenland for two and a half days. And, you know, people are like, you know, grab Conan and have him do this. Try to do an episode. Yeah.

And, you know, we're all exhausted. Those were cool. Yes. Greenland was awesome. Yeah, that was surreal. It was very exotic to me. Yes. I almost don't feel like when we were editing it, I was like, oh, we were there.

How many writers go on the travel shows? There's three of us. Yeah. Yeah. Jesse and Jose Arroyo. Do you know Jose? A little bit, yeah. Yeah.

So, you know. And Conan, of course. Conan O'Brien. He gets a writing credit. And Jeff Roscoe. Yeah. And Jason Shalemi is fantastic. He's fantastic.

He's the field producer. Oh, yeah. He was an intern, right? He was. And so was Schlansky. Jordan Schlansky. That's right. Our most famous intern, probably.

Him and Mindy Kaling. When did he start appearing as talent on the show? Was that when you were there? I would never have allowed that. Okay. It's true. You didn't. That is one of your claims to fame.

Do you know when it started? Oh, no. I'd love to hear it. Besides many things, besides just knowing him over the years, I was in New Zealand on New Year's Eve 2012 going into 2013 I think with my wife and kids at this remote lodge on the south island near a sheep herding lodge basically that had been turned into a nice place to hang out. Grasmere Lodge.

And it's going to dinner on New Year's Eve. They had dinner for everybody and then we were going to have a little New Year's Eve. They had dinner for everybody. And then we were going to have a little New Year's Eve celebration at this lodge. And I walk into the bar right before dinner to have the draft of scotch and standing 10 feet away from me. Other side of the world. That's Jordan Schlansky. And you were there to get away from work and unwind exactly but it was cool

it was one of those moments was he there by himself? he was with a girl a woman it was that moment though I have to give him credit because I was like Jordan

I'm glad you are here at the time otherwise I wouldn't have missed it he didn't miss it oh good that's right that's right I'm sorry as you instructed oh that's insane

you know it was so weird other people Conan ran into him oh yeah wait now I'm starting to wonder if this is even an accident I don't know

or I think Jordan is so just out of the country so often that odds are people we know are going to run into him all the time

he somehow has a lot of disposable income. Yeah. We don't. No one. Still a total mystery. Yeah. So how did you, did you end up spending the night with him?

I think it was one of those ones where we were leaving the next morning and he was leaving the next morning. So I think we, it was like a big, you know, everybody in the lodge was getting the dinner. All things signed. And so we, yeah, I rang in New Year's. Wow. And then your kids a day later are like, where's Uncle Jordan? Please, children. Knock that off.

He taught us how to make a quality espresso. All right. Well, Jonathan Groff, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, Mike Sweeney. It was great seeing you. I'm going to say, I think you're my favorite Jonathan Groff. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, Mike Sweeney. It was great seeing you. I'm going to say, I think you're my favorite Jonathan Groff. Oh, that is so nice.

Having not met the other one. No, that's true. He's lovely. I met him and he was wearing a bike helmet. Oh. At an event. It was after the Hamilton and he was wearing a bike helmet. And I think it was his very, he's very nice.

But I think it was his way of saying like, I'm not going to talk to you. Oh, I need to go. Because I have a bike helmet. And I think it was his very, he's very nice. But I think it was his way of saying, like, I'm not going to talk to you. Oh, I need to go. Because I have a bike helmet on and I've got to go. He didn't even ride a bike there. I know. Yeah. He always has one. His assistant carries it at all times so he can throw it on.

Thank you, guys. Thank you, Jonathan. Yeah, thank you so much. Well, that was Jonathan Groff. Yes, it was great to see my neighbor again. Yeah, you guys have a good chemistry. Yes. I see what it takes to be a head writer.

Finally. Yes, once you saw Jonathan, it made sense. Well, we mentioned this, but we only have two more episodes after this in our season. So, we want to get back to the listener questions. We love listener questions. We do. And this might be your last chance to ask us. Yeah.

So, please send them in. Anything. Yeah. Really, anything. It could just be, I mean, we'll give advice about dealing with your in-laws. Yeah. So, send those. The congressional hearings.

Anything you have questions about and the email is inside conanpod at gmail.com um we're not going to give you the phone number because no one's calling us people just we all prefer to email these days anyway no one makes phone calls anymore um so yeah send us a send us a message we'll answer it on one of the next couple episodes. And we'll come up with some really good guests for these last two. Or if you run into us on the street, ask us in person. That's true. And we'll answer them on the podcast as well.

We'll give you Sweeney's address at the end of the show. Yes. But we'll see you next week. Yes. Talk to you soon. We like you. Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast, is hosted by Mike Sweeney and me, Jesse Gaskell. Produced by Kevin Bartelt.

Engineered by Will Beckton. Mixed by Ryan Conner. Supervising producer is Aaron Blair. Associate producer, Jen Samples. Executive produced by Adam Sachs and jeff ross jeff ross and team coco and colin anderson and chris bannon at earwolf thanks to jimmy vivino for our theme music and interstitials you can rate and review the show on apple podcasts and of course please subscribe and tell a friend to listen to inside Conan on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, or whatever platform you like best. Ta-da!

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