Inside Conan: An Important Hollywood Podcast - Paul F. Tompkins

Episode Date: October 9, 2020

Hilarious comedian and prolific podcaster Paul F. Tompkins (The Neighborhood Listen, Stay F. Homekins, Threedom) stops by to talk with writers Mike Sweeney and Jessie Gaskell about his first time doing stand-up on Late Night with Conan in 1997, all the current safety procedures on set for the show he’s acting on, his fashion evolution over the years, his old variety show at Largo in Los Angeles, and his newest podcast Stay F. Homekins which he hosts with his wife Janie Haddad Tompkins. Plus, Mike and Jessie discuss the classic Conan character The Ghost Crooner and how risky they can be with writing jokes. Paul F. Tompkins’ first stand-up set on Late Night with Conan: https://classic.teamcoco.com/node/112603 Got a question for Inside Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone] and e-mail us at [e-mail] For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com

And now, it's time for Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. Hello, welcome to Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. Hello. Hi, Jesse. That's Jesse Gaskell. Yeah, that's me. And you're Mike Sweeney. That's right. And we're writers on The Conan Show. We have a great show today. We have a great guest, Paul F. Tompkins. Yeah. Hilarious comedian. Just one of the funniest comedians on the planet. He is. And he's also a very ubiquitous podcaster. I was going to say prolific. I like ubiquitous.

You can't turn toward any podcast direction without Paul F. Tompkins right there. Yeah. Pod F. Tompkins. That's right. We call him in the biz. And he has a great, it's a very, very funny, enjoyable podcast he's been doing with his wife, Janie. And it's called Stay F. Homekins. Yeah.

I don't know if you can guess what the theme is from the title. It's about quarantine. Yeah. So really, he's kind of got a lot of skin and coronavirus not getting cured. Yeah. Like if you hear about delays with the vaccine getting rolled out, I would just. Sweeney, would you ever do a podcast with your wife, Cynthia? Oh, no.

I think it would be good. I mean, you're both very funny. She's really funny. I would love her to have a podcast and I would subscribe. Us together, I don't know. I think a lot of it would be us just watching episodic television together. So occasionally you'd hear one of us go, it's too loud. Okay, now it's too low.

Turn on the subtitles. Yes. I don't understand the British. Yes. I know. That's my new thing is subtitles to watch shows that are in English. I know.

I know. Do you try it first? Like, you know what? This one's going to be different. I'm going to tough it out without subtitles. Yeah. And then five minutes in, it's like, all right,

I have no idea what's going on. And then when I put it on, I'm like, tough it out without subtitles. Yeah. And then five minutes in, it's like, all right, I have no idea what's going on. And then when I put it on, I'm like, oh, my God, I've been missing two thirds of the dialogue based on like, I may destroy you. Did you? Yes. Yeah, I did. I did use subtitles. Well, because there's a lot of slang. I love that show.

That was a great show. Yeah, I love that show, too. Oh, my God. It just kept sort of subverting expectations of what it was even about. Yeah, because everyone's so jaded now. It's like, oh, I see where this is going. Oh, okay. So now they're just going to... And then I'd be like, oh no.

Okay, you surprised me again. Yeah, it was very self-aware and took a second though in the same way that Girls took me a second. Because when you're first watching it, you're like, do I just not like these people? Is it me? And then you're like, oh, no, no, no.

I'm supposed to feel this way. Right, right, right. This isn't just a show that I'm supposed to like, but hate the people in it. Yeah, I feel better about them, and I feel better about myself, because now I get it. Right.

See, I'm one of the ones that gets it. And I feel we just did what Girls and I May Destroy You did, but no one thought we were going to bring up those shows. No, we started talking about Paul F. Tompkins. You know, but no, we totally threw you off with the left turn. I'm sure everyone's still listening. Thank God, because here he is. Ladies and gentlemen, our chat with Paul F. Tompkins.

You said this literally is your third podcast today? Yeah. You, of course, are known for many, many, many, many things, but one of them is you're a legendary participator in podcasts. What are the most you've done in a day? One day, I think I did five podcasts. Wow. That's exhausting.

It was exhausting. I was tired. Which number did you start getting diminishing returns? Like number? Probably the first one, if I'm honest. Because it was early in the morning. I did go, Paul, on your Wikipedia page, it has your discography, I guess you would call it,

of podcast appearances. My scrolling hand was getting tired. I couldn't scroll. It was like an endless scroll of appearances. That's why they call me Scroll Handbreaker. Carpal Tunnel Tompkins. That's right. CTT. Well, welcome to the show. You know, we try to tie things into the Conan show here, you know, and I know that's for you just a tiny dollop of your oeuvre. But an important one. Well, our research shows. You were first on Late Night with Conan O'Brien back in 97.

Yes. That was the first time I did stand up on a late night show. It was a very, very big deal. Very big deal for me. Oh, wow. Yeah. And that was pre-Mustache, too. That was pre-Mustache. I noticed. Can you believe it? I know! Just another lifetime. So that is your first late-night show. Were you nervous at all? You seem like a fearless performer. So I...

Well, my gift is that I appear very confident on stage. But I did have a lot of nerves about it. I was very scared about it. My first time having the experience of Frank Smiley taking me around to multiple comedy clubs to run the set. Frank Smiley, back then, booked with Paul Davis.

I would book the comics, right. Oh, I didn't know that. Cool. Yes. And Frank would take you around. If you were a comic, Frank would take you around to the toughest clubs in the city

where you would do this material that you're used to killing, and you would bomb. Oh, no. Frank would tell you, we're only doing this to get the timing, so the timing is right. Right. And to destroy your confidence.

Yeah, there was no way you did not feel like, oh, this is a test. And I might not get on the show after all. And in fact, I did hear about that happening to one person where they ran the set the night before and then it was like, you know what? No. Oh my God.

I'm afraid to say we cannot have you on the show. We're going to air a rerun instead. Yeah. Yeah, we're scrapping the entire show. And we're have you on the show. We're going to air a rerun instead. Yeah. Yeah, we're scrapping the entire show. And we're charging you. We're sending you the bill for the rerun. Yeah, that's how much you ate it at this club. We're scrapping the episode

that we haven't even made yet. Yeah. There are no future chances of you ever appearing on this show. That's right. And one year, one appearance I did, I think I did it a handful of times, the old on this show. That's right. And one year, one appearance I did, I think I did it a handful of times, the old late night show.

And one time Frank took me around to the clubs. This was the last time this happened because he'd done it a couple times and he kept telling me after the set, you're a minute over. And I was like, I know I'm not a minute over. I know that because I've run this set. You know, I'd been running the set at home before getting to New York. And so he had me take a minute out. Now the problem is you not only get used to running, you not only get used

to the way you've been doing the material, you know, so every word is like, it's in your brain, you know, it's not like a loose thing it's by this point it's a scripted thing that has little peaks and valleys and all that so you know like i get from here to here to here to here but it's also like okay how do i take out a minute which is an eternity a minute is an eternity it's so you can say so many things in a minute somehow i have to get a get rid of a minute, and it has to still make sense and be funny. It's basically one-fifth of what you were planning on doing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I worked on it, and I was like, is there something I can just lift out of here entirely to get from here to here? And I was like, okay, I figured it out. I did it. Now it comes time to do the set. I'm, I'm watching, they have a guy next to the camera who has little cards that have times on

it. And so it's counting down. Right. And so I'm watching the cards, but I'm like, I can't, I can't look at the cards because that's going to fuck me up. Right. I have to remember my transition that I now created to go from one bit to the other bit so that I finish with that minute shaved off. And the new transition, not the old transition. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like I can't look at him. I have to just trust that I did this correctly and that if I didn't, I'm at least in the ballpark or whatever.

I do the bit. I get to where I'm supposed to get to. I'm coming into my closer. I say, thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. The guy turns the card over and says, one minute left. Like, exactly. Exactly one minute left. Frank was the one holding the card.

I was so mad. I was so mad. I got over it did he did he fast up say like uh you know what i honestly don't remember we must have we must have had a conversation about it i would think yeah but i i will say that the next time i went back i i mustered up the courage to say can we not do that thing where we go to the clubs it's like it's just bugging me out it's like you know me and you know i've done it like i'm a pro i've done this i've done this a few times now

like i'm not gonna let you down it's been audience tested it's fine and he's like yeah okay and i was like oh it was that easy all you ever had to do was that maybe he just likes hanging out with comics you know what honestly i think that's what I want. Yeah. But look, I get it. It's like, yeah, you, I understand the, it's an abundance of caution because if somebody's kind of green, like who knows, you know, you want them. And I almost sort of believe the, you know, let's take you to the worst possible scenario

so that, you know, you can go into the best one feeling okay. Because obviously that crowd is super warmed up. Everybody's excited. TV crowds are usually great. Yeah. And I think when the comic comes out, I think they're kind of psyched about it because maybe they're going to see something

they've never seen before. And, you know, I think that people do like that part after they've gotten their fix of famous people. They front load it with the famous people. And then it's like, hey, I'm going to- Paul Torvino. Yeah. I can't possibly have room for more entertainment. Wayne, a comment.

I got to see the star of Law & Order season one. And now I'm in a giving mood for a entertainment. Wayne, a comment. I got to see the star of Law & Order season one, and now I'm in a giving mood for a nobody. It was thrilling. It was always thrilling every time I did it. And it was also, it was cool to feel like, you know, like part of the gang and that people remembered me when I came back and where everyone was always so kind and so nice.

Like everybody on the crew, like it was nothing but a great experience every time I did it. You know, that's great. Except for that missing minute. Oh, I want to hear what that one minute was. Yeah. Now I want to go back and rewatch your set and wonder what you. Yeah. Right.

I wish I could remember which one it was. I just watched it. Yeah. I did too. At one point you go, Hey, I'm from Philadelphia,sylvania and the crowd goes woo and you're like oh ghosts that it drives me crazy when people just cheer for places i can't stand it you don't like wooing i hate i hate wooing so much it's awful it's the worst thing ever yeah it's sucking up time

it's sucking up time it's just like you just wanted to yell like that's not that's not what this is about that's not what we're here also it's often an early warning system

about the crowd that's exactly right like oh boy this is not this is not gonna be fun yeah woo

well luckily we've moved beyond the wooing stage. No one does that anymore. Well, because there's no such thing as live entertainment anymore, so problem solved! This is like a Twilight Zone. Yes. I never want to hear an audience woo again!

Oh, be careful what you wish for. Well, are you, I heard you're shooting something right now, and I'm here in LA, I don't know what it is, maybe you can't something right now, and I'm here in LA. I don't know what it is. Maybe you can't talk about it. But I'm just curious.

I feel like you're one of the first people possibly back working on a set during COVID. Correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah, you know, I have not. I know some people that are working up in Canada, incouver but i have not talked to a lot of people that have gone back to work on sets here uh and in fact i just got an email today from andy daly sent out a group an email to a group to a bunch of people saying hey what's it like has anyone been back on set what how do you feel about it you know and people have been chiming in. Some people have, some people haven't. I got offered this part, a guest star on this sitcom. And I asked, you know, what are the, what are the, this sounds great. I read the part. It's like, this sounds like a lot of fun. What

are their, what are their protocols for COVID? My agent said, we'll find out and we'll, we'll get back to you. At the end of the day, at the end of that day, I got back, you know, a couple of PDFs with what they're doing. And I was like, wow, at the end of that day, I got back, you know, a couple of PDFs with what they're doing. And I was like, wow, this is really thorough. It feels like they're taking every possible precaution here. So I'm going to say yes. And then, you know, see what it's like when I get there. And if it's like crazy out of control, then, you know, if they were lying, I will leave and see what happens. So I said, yeah, please confirm. I'd like to do this.

The next day I slept in, woke up at like 9.30 to an email saying, okay, so report for your COVID test at 10. And I was like, what? I just woke up. I didn't read that part. They said the email was sent at 6 a.m. And I was like, I will do this, but can you, is there any wiggle room on the time? And so they let me come a little bit later, went and got the test. And then I started work on Tuesday of this week.

And so they have been testing every day. So they tested me. So I got a positive result from that first test. No, I'm sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. No. I got a negative result from that first test. No, I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. No.

I got a negative result for that first test. I infected the entire cast. I'm going to take down this whole show. They're riding around my COVID. Anarchy, anarchy. I'm going to show up there and ruin everything. I got a negative. My first test was negative.

So I go into work. They test me again. They're essentially using three different testing outfits so they can just be continually testing people. So they're employing three different testing organizations. So work Tuesday, it feels like a weird mix of normal and weird where everyone, all of the crew, including producers, directors, everyone is masked and shielded. Actors are wearing masks until the very last second, you know, until it's time to go. But they leave the shield on.

Well, we don't wear shields because of our beautiful hair. So it all feels very safe. There's, like, hand sanitizer everywhere. You know, you get lunch by... Yeah, what's craft services like? There's no real craft services to speak of. It's not like it was. There's not still a giant tub of red vines on the table?

Yes, that's the one thing. Twizzlers for you East Coasters. Big bowl of peanuts, no spoon. Yeah, there's no craft service around. There's no craft service around. You know, the people are very conscientious about it. There is, you know, the ADs are reminding the crew to, you know, keep their shields on and stuff like if they have to take them up to like change a lens or something like that to like don't put your shield back down. The next day, Wednesday, get tested again.

And by the way, the negatives keep coming in, baby. I am like, I'm on a hot streak. I'm loving it. Yeah. We're just about done with the day. We're going to turn around the camera angle on the very last scene. And I'm sitting in this little room with one of the other actors. You know, we're far apart from each other.

And AD comes in and says, hey, we're going to take a 30-minute break so you guys can go back to your trailers. And then I follow him out and then he says to the hair and makeup team who are in a separate area hey everybody we're going to uh clear the studio everyone's going to leave the studio right now and i'm like okay it's maybe not just a break right and someone a camera operator had tested positive oh man they just got the result in and so so everyone went home. They called me in yesterday to do two tests. So I did two tests. One was

a rapid where I got the results back right away. Hey, by the way, sorry, the rest of America. I know. We're getting tested all the time. I know. I feel so bad. It's like, we're essential workers here in Hollywood. I know. It really feels like gross, you know, but it's also bad it's like we're essential workers here i know it really feels like gross you know but it's also it's a fucking relief it's like i'm so glad then they called me

they said we're gonna finish that scene uh later this afternoon so we went back in at like five that night and we finished it and everyone is very careful but it is it made me hyper focused on like at the beginning of the scene, I have to open a door. Right. And I saw that a couple people touched this doorknob, and so I had to say, hey, let's clean that off, and then I'll open and close it between the takes. We don't have to have somebody else do that. It's like, it's very easy to let things slip through the cracks that you just take for granted,

even when you're being extremely careful in so many other ways. Did they appoint you in charge of COVID protocols after that? Like, this guy's good. Let's listen to him. He can do more than that. It's like a, I'm guessing, a single camera. It's a single a single camera yes it's not a multi-cam yeah yeah when would those ever be able to happen again in a conventional sitcom with an audience i mean it's just us here do the rubes know the secret that a lot of these multi-cams are shot without

an audience and they just put a laugh track in there what wait a minute yeah how i met your mother there was no audience there. Oh, my God. This sounds QAnon-ish to me. It's time for everyone to grow up. They couldn't use an audience because they would see the baby prisons. Oh, my God. They would see the babies with the tubes hooked up to them, getting the blood so we could have the curacrome, whatever it is. Yes, that would drag the crowd down.

No one wants to see that no amount of fun-sized snickers or free pizza is going to get those people on your side if they see the babies with the tubes and coming being picked to come down and dance well that just made me think paul because we're talking about how maybe the industry is going to evolve for these new criteria we have and i was thinking about about one of my favorite shows that you used to host and be on a lot was Best Week Ever. And I don't know what happened to clip shows and compilation shows about pop culture kind of went away. I think people got sad. I don't know what happened. I think what happened was because VH1 was a network and maybe still is, I don't know.

I honestly don't know. I have zero idea if they're still around or what they do. I'm Googling it. Is there a VH1 Plus that we can all subscribe to? What they would do was their programming would be one thing to the exclusion of all other things. So Best Week Ever, when I was hosting it, it was the tail end of when their whole network was clip shows. It was all, it was Best Week Ever.

It was I Love the 80s, I Love the 90s. It was whatever they could think of. And then they started to get into like really crude reality dating shows where it was just people like train wreck people with a with a has-been celebrity you know right and then there was us like in the in the middle of that and so then they were like oh yeah well what are we doing this for why why claw your way out of this mess yeah so i think they they kind of took that that format down with them they tried to revive it.

Right. But I think that maybe they were not the type of people. They were not the people that should have tried to revive it. And maybe it should have been somebody else. Well, because it does seem like something that could happen now. I mean, with a green screen and that's a producible show. Absolutely. And all those Housewives shows are still on.

There's so many types of shows like that that are still on. Like that genre is thriving for sure. And, you know, I think, I think a best week ever would, would absolutely be successful now. No,

actually I have, I have a question for Paul because watching your first, I could have a question too. Your first late night set on late Night with Conan O'Brien, you hadn't yet come to your current sort of sartorial look. So I was wondering about your fashion evolution and how that kind of took place. Was it like, oh, you saw yourself on TV and you thought,

now I want to start wearing a suit and tie? Yeah, well, I always like dressing up. And I came from the same era of stand up that Mike did where it was not uncommon for men to dress for the stage, like especially like on the weekends, like maybe you'd wear a T-shirt or a collared shirt, you know, during the week on open mics or whatever. nicer so it wasn't that weird and comics on tv routinely wore suits even if they didn't wear suits in their regular you know stand-up appearances yeah um it was just like that was a holdover from old showbiz and then as as times progressed and and that sort of relaxed a little bit which by the way i think is a good thing i think a lot of people assume i want everyone to be dressed up all the time which which I don't. I think it's great that people can express their individual styles in a way that I don't think ever really existed before. Like, people just always dress the same way.

I was nervous today, you know, about I wore a nice navy blue T-shirt because I was worried you'd give me shit about how I was dressed. But you're very casual right now. Yeah, this is casual, Paul. I'm dressed. But you're very casual right now. Very casual. Yeah, this is a casual fall. I'm at home. I just did two other podcasts. Yeah, yeah. You're kicking back.

Yeah, and we were outdoors, you know. So I was like, yeah, I think it's okay to shed a layer. Take the blazer off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, so I just like over the years, I got more and more, I think, adventurous with how I dress. Because I didn't want to look like a businessman, you know? Right. You're no Wall Street guy.

Yeah. Like, I really like clothes. And so I wanted to have fun with that. And so that's been a very gradual thing in my life. I once had to do some, you know, one-night comedy gig. It was out in Astoria, Queens. And it was a bar. It was a pub.

And the guy was trying, you know, hey, we're going to have comedy. So I shut up with two other comics. Nobody wants it. But here it comes. Hey, we were watching the Yankee game.

Sorry. It's extra innings. Sorry. Comedy now. Shut the TVs off. Such a specific thing when you're performing in a bar that has tvs

that happened once we drove all the way to jersey it was literally on a giant screen and they shut the game off and the screen lifted up to reveal a little stage so where they were enjoying this game now you had to go up and go, hey man, you ready for a show? And people were livid. Oh, you know what else I want to ask you? Largo. Conan's doing COVID shows from Largo. I heard, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did he have to ask you for permission? That's right. You used to do a legendary show from Largo. When I first moved to LA, I went to go see it. And you would end every show. I think you did a show a month.

And you'd end the show by singing Danny Boy. That's right. But then it would devolve into an ad-libbed ending. I think based drawing from everything that happened during the show. And it was, I have to say, etched into my brain. It was so funny. Thank you. I loved doing that every time.

I would start to sing the song and then I would just start riffing in between the verses and it would go on for a long time. Oh my God. It was definitely the longest segment of the show at the very end. It was an amazing high wire act,

although it didn't even seem dangerous because you were so large and in charge doing it. And it was just every time, just hilarious. It was a weird thing. It was like, it was the end. And so it would always come after we would do a big group musical number. Right.

And so that was like as high as the energy got. Right. And then that was like my cool down. Right got right and then i would that was like my cool down right and it shouldn't have worked but it did work it should not have worked well mentally for you is probably very cathartic because you just yeah it was fun yeah just finished all the planned stuff absolutely yes exactly oh that's off my brain pan this is all i have to do now is just relax on stage while people watch me relax. Yeah. So, I mean, that is a great room for comedy.

Yeah, absolutely. I miss doing a variety show. I really, I loved it. And, you know, especially that, the old Largo location, tiny little club. Before the theater, there was a tiny little club on Fairfax Avenue. And that was an extremely special time because I was still coming up at that time.

I had just moved to Los Angeles. I think they started doing comedy shows. It was a music club and they started doing comedy shows there in 98 or something like that, 97, 98. So I hadn't been there that long. My career was all kind of coming together. I was meeting people that would be my friends and collaborators.

And then that was happening. And then to be introduced to all these musicians who would become friends of mine. And then we would appear on each other's shows. And it was this really wonderful community that started. It was a very, it was a great creative time. I think that everybody got a lot out of that, you know, just being around each other, doing stuff with each other, hanging

out, you know, it was a really, a very formative time for a lot of us. But as special as that was, I did love when Largo moved to that bigger theater because, you know, I like to put on shows and I like to, if there's a curtain that open and closes, I'm thrilled if there's, you know, wings that can be employed. I'm so happy. So, yeah, I really do miss miss doing those shows. Are there specific venues that you like to perform at? I mean, when you tour and just I imagine you've you've had a variety of of different size rooms and. Oh, yeah. Probably my favorite venue in Los Angeles is the Theater at the Ace.

Oh, yeah. Because it's a new theater, so everything is state-of-the-art. But I love the vibe of that room. I love a big room. I'm more comfortable in a gigantic place than I am in a small place. Like I did some shows with Mark Evan Jackson, who from Brooklyn nine, nine and the good place. Right.

Yeah. Who's also a fantastic improviser. And we started doing these two person shows where we would wear tuxedos. That was, that was something that was set as a joke and then instantly became a reality. We were both, we both had to say like, but we're really going to do that, right?

Because we're both on board with it. And the first show that we did, we had never done a two-person show before. And the first one we did was for Just for Laughs Toronto. And it was in this theater, the Queen Elizabeth Theater, which was something like a 1500 seat theater or something like that. And as soon as we walked out on stage,

and it's a huge crowd, we sold it out. And as soon as we walked out on stage and it's you know it's a huge crowd we sold it out and as soon as we walked out on stage in the tuxedos i felt like this is just home this is like where this is where i'm supposed to be like it felt so right and natural so yeah i like i like i like big houses like that you know that's that's always fun for me. I love that. It's like all those trappings kind of just help you. Yeah. Oh, and I also got to shout out the Bell House in Brooklyn, which is my favorite venue in the country. I love the Bell House. There's something about that place that it's got such a good vibe. And I love the crowds there. I love the audiences there. And yeah, I just, I love performing there. I love love it there that is a big thing the the personality audience personalities are different across the united states and canada and i'm sure anywhere else you go which which is to me kind of a revelation i i don't know if people

think about that and i think it also influences like you know when i was living in new york comics would move to New York from different cities and you could almost predict sort of what their personality would be on stage. For sure, yes. From what city they were from. Oh, yeah. Don't you think? So are you a Philadelphia comic? Is that?

Exactly. To move from Philly and then come out to LA to this alternative comedy utopia had to be, because Philly's known for being a tough comedy town right oh yeah it's a great place to start it's a great place to start because you will develop a thick skin and you've got to roll with a lot of stuff because now if it's not if they're not enjoying it they will let you know so it is it's a great place to start because you absolutely get prepared for anything. When I came out here and the alternative movement was happening, I realized, oh, this is the thing that I've been trying to do but didn't know how to do because I hadn't seen it done the way that I wanted to do it. And there had been, you know, like every once in a while we would do in Philly, like me and the gang that I was tight with, we would get to do like a showcase night where it was, it would be, it was a looser show, you know, it'd be like on a Thursday night and it was a looser vibe. And there was something about it that just naturally felt more experimental because you had

a longer set than an open mic. You didn't have the pressure of like a paid weekend show. And so it just had a much more offbeat vibe that you felt like the audience also felt that way, you know, that what are we all doing here on a Thursday night? It's weird. And that's make the best of it. Yeah, that to me was the closest that I got to that vibe that I was looking for. And then when I came out here and saw people doing really conversational comedy, that was still like still had jokes, there were still punchlines. But there it was a it was a more relaxed style. I gravitated towards that right away but then like when I when I would do professional gigs my stand-up was much more high concept like quick jokes like my first album is all that is all that stuff and then I started it took me a long time for in my in my professional style to gravitate because I think what I saw was in the alternative rooms and like on cabaret and things like that, I saw people being themselves in a way that they weren't in their professional stuff.

And I was like, oh, that's like sort of the outlet. And then it gradually dawned on me, it was like, oh, I could merge these things and I could make, you know, I can be more myself and tell stories from my own life, which I never really did, that just started to feel more and more natural and like me, like, oh, yeah, this is the thing that I've been, this is an evolution towards where I've wanted to be this whole time, you know? I mean, having first seen you once you had evolved that way, and then just today watching your first time on Late Night with Conan O'Brien,

I was struck by that. It's like, oh, wow, you were doing really funny bits, but yeah, you weren't talking about your own life the way you do now. And the way it's so conversational and kind of, you know, it almost seems like just a stream

of thought. Yeah, the whole time, which is great. Well, thank you. I'm trying to trick people. I'm giving you a lot of compliments. You do a podcast now with your lovely wife and hilarious wife, Janie, which is great. Yes. Janie had at Tompkins. We started, it was her idea.

She said, we should do a podcast while we're in quarantine. Have you thought about doing a podcast? I love the names. Day of Homekins. Day of the name. Stay at homekins. Stay at homekins. Stay at homekins. Also Janie's idea. Yeah.

Yeah. She said, let's do a podcast. I was like, oh, that's a great idea. And then we recorded one episode and then found out that like three other couples were doing a quarantine podcast. But we're still doing it. I think a lot of people have stopped, but we're still doing it. The other couples have all broken up.

Yeah. Exactly. No one else is talking to each other. It's because we record tonight, actually. We put it out on Friday nights. We have a little date night where we have a nice dinner where we actually sit at the table instead of in front of the TV, which we usually do because we're Americans. Yes. And then we clear the table and we set up the equipment and then we record our podcast.

So you're doing four podcasts today. I am doing four podcasts today. That's right. Oh, man. I don't even think about it anymore. Are you? Day is podcast. That's all I know. Well, we should wrap up.

Yeah, we should let you go. Because you have to rest. You literally need to rest in between. I think I probably will take a little. Paul needs some downtime. I'll take a little disco nap before I get back in front of the mic again. Before you have to talk to your wife. I need to rest up. I've talked to her all day.

Yeah, exactly. So we have stuff to talk about. We always like to ask our guests for a piece of advice to someone starting out who might want to have a career like yours. And maybe that looks like being a podcast mogul or stand-up comic, actor, whatever. Guest star in a COVID sitcom. Yes. Whatever direction you'd like to take it.

Or just a future COVID patient. The piece of advice that I always give people who are starting out is remember that it's supposed to be fun. There's, there's a lot of nerves. There's a lot of hopes and dreams and aspirations and anxieties that go into this. But the, the whole point of doing this is because it's fun and it's very easy to get caught up in a lot of the negative emotions that are associated with this because of course you're going to have those moments, but you have to always remember that it's supposed to be fun. And that's a lifelong admonition. I have to do that myself. I have to say, like, always get back to doing things that are just for the sheer pleasure of doing them.

You know, there's plenty. Especially when you get used to working. Like, you're not going to get everything. Everything that comes your way is not going to be like, oh, this is what I always wanted to do. Some things you do for experience. You do it for money. You do it for career advancement to keep yourself in the game, whatever.

There's a lot of reasons you might have for doing something. So always make sure that you are doing something that gives you pleasure, makes you feel creative and just makes you laugh. Yeah, I love that advice because it is easy to take ourselves too seriously sometimes, I think. I literally have a piece of art in my office that I haven't been to

for seven months but that says this is supposed to be fun because I need to remind myself that we're not surgeons. Yeah, it's scary, you know. Exactly. You can get,

there's so many things you can get precious about what you do or you can get scared that your career is over or whatever. Or insecure. Or insecure, yeah. Or they don't like me.

Yeah. And so it's like, especially now that there's all this different stuff that you can do. There's all this different technology that's at your fingertips. Like, you can just make a dumb thing that's just for you that makes you laugh, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So just like always have a thing that you enjoy. That's great. Thank you so makes you laugh. Yeah. Just always have a thing that you enjoy. That's great.

Thank you so much, Paul. Of course. It's a pleasure to meet you. It's a pleasure to meet you, too. This was a lot of fun, guys. Thank you for having me. And that was Paul F. Tompkins. Yay. That was fun. I feel like we have a real podcast now that we've had him as a guest. That's true. I can't believe we went this long. I was afraid we have a real podcast now that we've had him as a guest. That's true. I can't

believe we went this long. I was afraid to ask him just for us to even ask him to do the podcast because he's so busy. Yeah, I know. Could you squeeze us in between other podcasts? Right. Which, as it turned out, he did. We were number three out of four. Nice place to be. Hey, we have a listener voicemail. Oh, a voicemail. I like that. Yeah. Let's hear it. Hi, Insight Conan. I just went and listened to an entire compilation of The Ghost Crooner, and it is hilariously horrible. is as we're moving into more and more of this awareness of what's appropriate and what's hurtful, where do you draw that line and how risky can you be in writing jokes?

Because that seems like a challenge in this day and age. I'd love to hear your thoughts around that and love listening to you guys. I think this is the greatest podcast to come out of 2020. And my name is Kyle Jacobson. I hope you both have a wonderful day. Oh, I like that. I like that, Kyle Jacobson. What a lovely young man. What an upstanding fellow. I love the phrase he used. Was it hilariously horrible? Hilariously horrible. I think all comedies used. Was it hilariously horrible? Hilariously horrible. I think all comedies should aim for

the hilariously horrible. Yeah. I want that on my business cards. Well, his question was about something called the Ghost Crooner, which was a sketch back in late night with Conan O'Brien that we started doing in the mid-aughts and then ran into the ground.

And it was played by the hilarious Brian Stack, who... Oh, Brian. Brian can pull anything off. It was like, if you weren't sure what to do that night, you just put Brian in a costume and shove him out on stage. It's true. Okay, there's five minutes. Check. Get a beard, get Stack. And this is a sketch he came up with. He's one of the sweetest, nicest guys you'll ever meet or talk to. And then he would write the darkest. You're like, ah, are you in a writing team with the devil?

Because. Yeah. It was just really dark and always hilarious. It's such a juxtaposition because he really couldn't be a sweeter person. He came up with this character where he'd play a translucent ghost who would appear at Conan's desk. And he was from the 30s and he used to sing at Rockefeller Center because it used to be a radio studio. And then he was kind of like, hey, I'm going to sing you one of my old songs right now. It was always the same tune every time we did the bit, which it was always the same structure to it, which I think we all found kind of hilarious.

And he'd do an awful few stanzas about poor people. It was always during the Depression. Conan would be like, oh my God, that's horrible. And they'd go, oh, well, you know, let me sing something I wrote about the ladies. And then it would be awful verses about just subjugating women. And then Conan would get outraged. He goes, oh, you got a hot Irish temper there. Reminds me of a song I wrote about the Irish. And then when we first did it, it's interesting. It would just kill all the way through. And then we did it. I noticed towards the end, the audience's perception of things was already changing while we were doing it. It started getting less and less big laughs. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Because people started maybe feeling bad about laughing. Yeah. I think things were starting to change.

And we were kind of like, wow, well, it must be the crowd. And it literally was the crowd. I think the crowd was changing. And we were stuck in the 30s with this ghost crooner Artie Kendall. Well, but that's a good example, because it was sort of built into the premise that he was supposed to be from a different time. The whole premise was that his beliefs were so out of step with where we were in 2004. Yes. The first couple of years, people loved that. And then it was kind of like, oh, you know what? We're not even enjoying it.

We can't even laugh at that anymore. Yeah. Right. That is interesting because it's, I think things might reach a tipping point where the audience is like, actually, we've now been inundated with enough sort of context for that, that we no longer find it funny. Right.

Or it might be that we are worried about laughing at it because we're worried about how that's going to make us look. Yeah. And then it becomes more oohs than laughs, which is not an area you want to be in. I mean, to go to what Kyle's asking, there are so many times as a group or individually as writers on the show where we'll write stuff that we think is hilarious. But we also know it's funny in the room. It's not something that the crowd would go for. Yeah. comedy writers have such a different sort of baseline because we're reading so much news and we're processing the news so quickly that like we might have already moved past a tragedy a day

later because we've already been just talking it over to death in the room. And then the public is like, no, no, no, we're still grieving this thing that you're joking about. So we're not there yet. Yeah. Because they always say tragedy plus time equals comedy, right? Yeah, exactly. No, and also, we're actually out of habit joking about things we probably shouldn't joke about so quickly, you know? Yeah. It is kind of a thing you have to pull up on. I mean, I don't know. I think about this question a lot because I don't get very, I don't get angry about the fact that people are sensitive to certain things. It's not like, well, what about my right to tell jokes?

Right, right, right. I think it's fine to have new parameters for where we're at culturally and have to work within those. And sometimes you need an audience to tell you that, that you don't know until you put it out there. And then the audience can reflect back to you whether they're able to laugh at it or not. I agree with you. I know, especially the last few years, there's a big debate, especially in the stand-up world of, you know, and I think, yes, I mean, there's always parameters. It's fun to play on the edges, but the edges are always changing. And that's, you know, things aren't going to stay static. And it's just people's reactions to comedy isn't going

to stay static. So you just have to adjust. Yeah, you adjust. And that's part of our jobs. And I also think there's room to laugh at pretty much any topic. I don't think there's anything that is off limits as long as the point of view is that people are on board with the point of view. You know, like I think. I agree. As long as it feels like the joke has the right victim.

Not victim per se, but it's attacking the right thing. Right. Then I think you're always going to be fine, even if it's sort of a touchy subject matter. Yeah. And I think comics and comedy writers are attracted to the topics that are going to kind of be touchy just because otherwise it feels like you're playing it safe kind of you know and not yeah not really going after the right targets yeah like now more than ever i think a lot more about who the sort of target of a joke is i i still think the irish is fair game i think that's one of the only things we still have. It's true, though.

Whenever I hear Irish jokes, I'm like, well, yeah, it's all true. But I mean, anytime you're making fun of yourself or your own ancestry, I think you're going to be fine. Yeah. Or anything that you've experienced personally is like, great. That's all your lived experience. That's your material. You get to have that. But it is changing in terms of making fun.

I think even that's evolving. The old, well, if you're Irish, you can make fun of yourself. If you're Jewish, you can make fun of yourself. Well, because everything can now be weaponized.

It's like, even if you're a Jewish comic, your words can be weaponized by the wrong people. And then it's like, well, no, I don't want them laughing at this. They're not supposed to be the ones

who think this is funny. And then it comes back to you as the one who originated it. Who put it out like, well, no, I don't want them laughing at this. They're not supposed to be the ones who think this is funny. And then it comes back to you as the one who originated it. Who put it out there, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's complicated. And you know what? We're not going to solve it all in this little conversation. It's complicated.

And you know what? Going back to Artie Kendall thing, one of the reasons it always ended making fun of Conan was kind of like, you know, it would make Conan as the host more in on the jokes that preceded it in a way. Because now he was like a target as well. Yeah, and that's, we often get around things

by turning it back on Conan in sketches. Right. That's smart. That's a way to get the audience on board. But then Conan's like, why, you know, why do you always have to make it like I'm, I'm this virgin bedwetter? Right. And we're like, why, you know, why do you always have to make it like I'm this virgin bedwetter? And we're like, because

it's true. Because it's true and we need to fill time on the shot. You try ending a sketch, sir. Oh, whoops. That is a better ending. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Then he comes up with a better ending. Well, thank you, Kyle. That was thought-provoking.

Yes. Thanks, Kyle. And thank you for the lovely words. And hey, if anyone else wants to leave us a voicemail, actually, we're nearing the end of season two, so you better get your questions in while you still can. Please call us at 323-209-5303. Or email us at insideconanpod at gmail.com.

And thank you all for listening. That's our show. Bye-bye. We'll see you next week. We like you. Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast, is hosted by Mike Sweeney and me, Jesse Gaskell. Produced by Jen Samples. Engineered and mixed by Will Becton.

Supervising producers are Kevin Bartelt and Aaron Blaire. Executive produced by Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco. And Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Earwolf. Thanks to Jimmy Vivino for our theme music and interstitials. You can rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts. And of course, please subscribe and tell a friend to listen to Inside Conan on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, or whatever platform you like best. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf. Thank you.