Inside Conan: An Important Hollywood Podcast - Robert Smigel

Episode Date: October 30, 2020

Comedy legend Robert Smigel (Original Head Writer of Late Night with Conan, creator of Triumph the Insult Comic Dog) returns to talk with writers Mike Sweeney and Jessie Gaskell about how Cheri Oteri on SNL influenced future generations of comedians, loving the close-knit atmosphere during his time at Late Night with Conan, doing the Bill Clinton Clutch Cargo bit in front of Bill Clinton at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner, the birth of Triumph, and how Jordan Schlansky saved the very first Triumph remote at the Westminster Dog Show. Triumph Attends the Premiere of Star Wars: Attack of the Clones: https://classic.teamcoco.com/node/106928 Triumph at the 1999 Westminster Dog Show: https://classic.teamcoco.com/node/106846 Got a question for Inside Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone] and e-mail us at [e-mail] For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com

And now it's time for Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. Hello. The voices in your head are actually part of a podcast. It's Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. You're Jesse Gaskell. I am. And you're Mike Sweeney. The idea is we talk about behind the scenes of Conan and we have guests who are in some way related to the Conan show and beyond. Yes. It's like Bed, Bath and Beyond. The Beyond is a really big category. Yes. We can have the person who invented the shake weight on the podcast.

Nice tease for our next guest. We had a big mishap at the show this week. Well, the show came back from a break. Yeah, we were on a three-week hiatus. And the show's taping

at the Largo Theater in West Hollywood. They were robbed or burglarized. We were robbed, yes. Someone came in. Oh, yeah. What's the difference between a burglary?

You can be robbed like on the street. Okay. But a burglary means someone has penetrated your private property, i.e. a building. Yes. To steal things. But we weren't there, obviously, when it happened. They stole a couple of laptops. Yeah, they stole some laptops and a clapper board.

The Slate. It's called the Slate. Yeah, which is the most Los Angeles theft that can possibly happen. But you know what? Maybe someone without the means wanted to start their own TV show and needed to steal a clapper. Yeah, they're like, we got everything except the Slate. Yes. Well, we can dive right into our show because we have a really, we have a clapper. Yeah, they're like, we got everything except the slate. Yes. Well, we can dive right into our show because we have a really, we have a long interview coming up.

And I think it's no surprise that this person talked for a while with us. Second time on our show. Second time. The first time on, we talked about the beginning of the late night with Conan O'Brien and only got up to, I think, February or March of 1994. Yeah. So now we talked for another hour and we got up through April of 1994. Exactly. Exactly. Our guest is Robert Smigel, the original head writer and one of the original producers. Creator of Triumph the Insult comic dog, among many other famous bits. And helped co-create Late Night with Conan O'Brien with Conan O'Brien. And he has a photographic memory, so it's fun to talk to him.

Yeah. Really get a sense of what that time was like. Here he is, Roberto Smigel. Welcome back to Inside Conan. Welcome back. Thank you. Yes, you were last on, I think it was like 15 months ago. Yeah.

And we checked and we left off at February 28th, 1994. That's how far we had gone. Oh, thank God it wasn't a leap year where we had more ground to cover. We'd be lost in a vortex. We did do five shows a week, you know, and we packed it with comedy and it was very hard. And sometimes I would, you know, I said on the last time I was here,

like how I discovered, oh, especially on that Letterman show that we, when Letterman was the guest and we wanted to make it the best show ever. Right. It was like planning for a bar mitzvah or something because he was coming back to NBC. He loaded it with comedy. And then I went straight to the edit room because the show

was long. And it was the first time I realized, oh, I can really manipulate if a bit is slow or whatever. And then I started to abuse that privilege and I would edit. To tighten up a bit. To tighten up a bit. And it was a way of telling Jeff Ross, don't worry if it goes long, I'll take care of it in the end. Right, right, right. Conan and I tried very hard to be super accessible and tight with the writers. And it was one of the reasons it was my favorite job ever is because I felt so attached to the people I was working with. And I felt like we were a real unit, you know, all the, all those original seven guys who, uh, there were no women back then. Women didn't exist

since 1993 before funny women were invented. Men created labs. It really was. I used to get interviewed about that occasionally, Jesse. Really? What did you say? I mean, really the truth was that there were for every, and I'm sure you've heard this one, this old trope, but for every like hundred submissions, there'd be like three female submissions. Yeah. And so it was like almost a law of averages thing. And I think it was something that was a sort of self-fulfilling

prophecy because whatever it was, there was like an inherent prejudice that discouraged women from thinking that they could even have the chance of getting a job there in the first place. Right. Yeah, I agree with that. I felt that way growing up. It didn't seem like a job that was realistic to get. Yeah. I mean, Meryl Markle was like the exception that proved the rule. You know, she was Letterman's head writer, but I don't think there was a woman writer on the staff other than Meryl Marco in the 80s.

I really think, now I'm really digressing, but I think SNL had a big role in, like right after that, like in 95 or so, Sherry O'Terry and Molly Shannon, they just kind of took over that show. Yeah, Ana Gasteyer. Then Ana came and then, you know, and that led the way for people like Faye and Polar. And I think that had a huge impact

on late night comedy from then on. They developed characters that the audience connected with really quickly. They weren't afraid to take big swings, like broad characters that had like Farley type energy. You know, there were great people who preceded them, like, you know, obviously Gilda and Jane and Rain Newman and Jan Hooks and Nora Dunn. And I mean, amazing people. But these were the first ones who really like every week they would be churning out character stuff for themselves, you know? Right. And they were great at it.

And they just... Yeah, they were stars. Yeah, they were stars. And they just set an example for everyone who followed, like not to be afraid of that. And it sort of, you know, they reeducated the show. And I think that that had an effect on all of late night comedy eventually.

That's interesting because I think you're right. I think you always think of the big swell of women, you know, at SNL coming a few years later. And it's interesting to think that these two kind of. Yeah, I mean, Sherry more than anybody. Molly Shannon was incredible and had a great career there. But Sherry was like, bam, every single way she did the cheerleaders. Yeah. That like took over the show immediately when that cast came on right like just every week she would have a character the audience loved and right a recurring character yeah she doesn't get nearly the credit for whatever reason a lot of times with snl people are judged on what they did after oh that's yeah and the rest of their careers kind of helps define how they're remembered.

Right. It's kind of always looked at as a launching pad. Yeah. So like Tina and Amy have had like these amazing mega careers and Molly and Maya Rudolph, you know, and they're all fantastic. And Molly's doing great. Yeah. hasn't had as many big hits since Saturday Night Live but you know if I had to point to one person who changed the show it would be her oddly enough or not oddly enough. That's cool no I haven't heard this take before so I like

this. Yeah. I was there I remember I was there for their first show because I had written a cold open I wasn't part of the show but I was trying to help. Lauren had almost been like pushed out and then he stayed. And so I wrote a cold open and then I stayed for the show. And Sherry and Molly did this sketch called Leg Up

where they played Ann Miller and Debbie Reynolds. Oh, I think I remember. And they're just like, bam, right to camera, total confidence, their first show. Right. And Sherry especially was just like a machine. And Lauren just looked at me. I was standing next to him. She's really, she's something, isn't she? What a firecracker.

I think you might've used the term firecracker. I think a lot of people watching at home were like, yeah, this is, I could be funny that way. I can laugh at a woman. I can laugh at a woman and I, or I could be that woman. I could be funny that way. I can laugh at a woman. I can laugh at a woman, or I could be that woman. I can go for it. That was me. That was little Jesse. Oh.

That little girl was me. Yes. So February 28th, 1994. It's enough. It's enough. It's enough. Jeff Frost is in my earphone. It's enough. Enough. Move on. Wrap it up. Wrap it up. Wrap it up. We're over. We's enough. It's enough. It's enough. Jet Frost is in my earphone. It's enough. Enough. Move on.

Wrap it up. Wrap it up. We're over. We're over. Oh my lord, yes. Yeah, well, you're talking about how tight the group was, the original group. I mean, when you think about it, only seven writers. Seven writers, and then there were four guys who worked on the monologue. Right. All great guys. Tom Agnet, Chuck Sklar.

Right. Amir G guys. Tom Agnet, Chuck Sklar. Right. Amir Golan. Brian Kiley. Incredible joke churning machine and a hilarious guy. Yes, but the sketch writers, you're right, were the ones who were the ones who were dealing with the bulk of the craziness on the show. You were replacing the Letterman show, which...

Oh, it was the greatest opportunity ever. Great opportunity and an insane challenge. You were replacing the Letterman Show, which... Oh, it was the greatest opportunity ever. Great opportunity and an insane challenge. The most exciting and scariest challenge at the same time. Terrifying. And what was really great about running that show was I had done eight years at Saturday Night Live, and it was just the polar opposite in terms of... I always felt like I was kind of a driven person when I was that age, really wanting to do great work, but I was not, I hated competition. It just made me

ill. SNL was so competitive. Nobody has the same agenda on that show. Everybody is thrown into this gumbo and forced to compete with each other. You collaborate with people too, but that's usually in sort of like cliques like me and Conan and Greg Daniels and Bob Odenkirk kind of thing. We almost always wrote together. And there were other writers that we once in a blue moon would write with, but not very often. And so you're forced to, you know, you're not rooting against people. Well, I guess some people said they were like, there are writers who say, yeah, no, you go and you root against every other sketch.

You don't laugh. Yeah. Right, right, right. I heard about that at read-throughs where you're talking about clicks. And if you weren't in like one of the cool guys no one would laugh at your at the reading i didn't feel that it was that way when i was at snl okay but i did feel i did hear people of the the later era right like late 90s openly telling me that yeah oh no i'd try not to laugh at other people's stuff and like oh that's taking it too far. Well, another big difference with the Conan show was you had to get a show on every day. So you couldn't root against anyone.

Like if someone else came up with an idea. You need content. Thank God. You wanted to build an altar to them. It was like, thank you. Now we don't have to stay till 1 a.m. Yeah, no, there were two things going on, which is everybody has the same agenda. We're trying to come up with funny stuff that's going to make Conan look good and Andy, and that's going to support their sensibility. And then the second thing is, yes, we have five shows to fill a week and, or even four. And unlike SNL, where

the host changes every week, if you don't get your sketch on this week, there's still a chance that you could dig it up and put it on in months from now. Oh, that's a good point. Whereas SNL, there was always this do or die thing at read-through. Like your precious baby was going to be read in a room

and grumpy set designers were going to be, you know, I heard this one before. Set designers are wonderful people. Even though you loved everybody you were working with, you were forced to be thrown into that. And here we're all working toward the same goal. And I had never experienced that. It was like a really... Oh, is that true? No, because all I knew was SNL. I hadn't experienced that since I was in Chicago and I worked on a comedy group, which was also like a wonderful period of my life

to the point where I was 25 when I got SNL and I was over the moon, obviously, but there was a part of me that actually wished that, I wish this could happen like three years from now because I just was so happy in Chicago. You had that wisdom at that age? Like, it's almost like having a kid or something where you're like, okay.

It's a blessing, but. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't think of it as wisdom. I just really like, the last thing I wanted to do was feel bad about it because it was like winning the lottery.

I gotta move to New York. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I was from New York. So my parents were move to New York. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I was from New York, so my parents were just like ridiculously happy. Yeah. But I love Chicago. It's my favorite city.

And I was, those were the best years, you know, other than having kids. But, you know, just working with other people toward a common goal was so exciting. And that's how the Conan show felt. We became so tight and dependent on each other. And all those guys contributed enormously to creating the entire vibe and sensibility of that show.

You know, it wasn't anyone or even a couple of people. It was a real collaboration. Just the most exciting experience imaginable. And yet the hardest, probably, because we were, you know, five shows a week, neophyte host, and an insane desire to make our mark with- So much pressure. Original material. The stakes were really high in the spotlight on you. Well, Conan's whole career was right. Basically,

you know, I might've said on the last show when he took me into his office and said, I don't want to be the answer to a trivial pursuit question, you know, who, who replaced Letterman for six months in 1994. And he was not laughing. He was dead serious. And, you know, it was one of those moments where he had to remind me that, you know, to compromise a little bit, like, cause you know, you think of shit and some of it's working and some of it's not. And I'm like, you try it, we can refine it. And maybe the network is pushing back. You know, I felt very proud that not only of all the stuff we created, but that by the time I left, which was like January of 95,

that the show was very different than even what we started with. Like we had made a lot of adjustments, I think, to- From the Letterman show. No, I mean, it was different from our first- Oh, okay.

Couple of weeks in 93, where we would have people interrupting interviews, you know, that level of insanity. Right. Watching that, the interruptions and everything, as a viewer, I can imagine doing the show, that would get probably exhausting. But as a viewer, that was, I just loved it. I think it was thrilling stuff. And I think Conan was all for it. Sometimes I've seen Lorne say, it was Robert's show, and then he left and it became Conan's show. And I never felt that way. I felt like we were very much in sync.

He loved all these ideas and he wanted to do them, but we learned as we did them that, you know, again, he was a neophyte and he did not necessarily, like if we had done it with a guy who'd been in radio for 10 years and now was getting his shot and had established his sensibility and was comfortable with people coming in and out, you know, and interrupting stuff, like he'd been used to it. And, and he, you know, more of a who gives a fuck what the audience thinks kind of attitude. And Conan was not capable of shielding himself from the audience's silence at times. Not at that stage. Yeah.

Not at that stage. Oh, God. I can't even imagine. Just having to learn how to host a show and everything involved and interview people and tell the monologues and all the sketches. Just an insane challenge. Plus his inherent personality has always been a people pleasing kind of being who loves an audience laughing. He doesn't like to create stress. Yeah. That's how he gets feedback. Yeah, exactly. It's his oxygen. So by the end of my run there, I felt like we'd done a lot of things that I

didn't necessarily want to do originally. We would compartmentalize crazy ideas instead of just letting them happen. In 1993, we never would have called a bit, guests will never have come back. A self-conscious name. Yeah. We would never create something and define it as being crazy or bad. You know what I mean? Like we would just let it happen. We would be interviewed. We'd have a fake guest who was terrible and we would actually bring them out. It would be like our act three would be a real guest who was problematic. And then it would like be a part of the show instead of, instead of labeling it, having a title card or by doing that, it allowed the audience to understand the context and,

you know, which at the time in 1993, I was like, Oh no, we can't do that. Kind of, that's a letter mini kind of cop out. But what it,

what it ended up doing was giving us the leeway to go even crazier. And then bits like Satellite TV created a baseline where you could just present an idea that was just going to be a joke bag. A bucket. Yeah, a joke bucket, joke bag, a joke tote. A joke. Valise. Valise is on funny.

No V words. No V words. It's hacky. So yeah, I feel like that sort of was where I left the show in 95. And then I feel like the show just got, especially like Groff came in and the you know a couple of years later and i i just felt the show got way better because they got to they got to produce even crazier concepts you know right and and everything was gelling and then the you know the press all of a sudden like caught onto it and loved it so that yeah oh yeah conan's confidence was obviously yeah through the roof yeah yeah

but i think that was happening anyway just through from the audience responses you know right and so that yeah oh yeah conan's confidence was obviously yeah through the roof yeah yeah but i think that was happening anyway just through from the audience responses you know right and that was even starting to happen when we were there like by february we were getting audiences who were familiar with the show and applauding when characters would come on and i have to say watching stuff from 93 and early 94, the crowds were great right away. They were. No, they were. They were pretty good, yeah.

They were laughing. Who was warming them up? Who did the warm-ups? I remember when you were doing them, Mike. Well, that's what I was wondering. I was wondering if it was Sweeney. Mike was great. Joel did it.

Then Louis C.K. did it. And then I took over. Yeah, when did you take over? Like in... December of 94. Of 94? Yeah. So that means there was like a whole year.

No, I was there when you were there. I left in January of 95. Oh, okay. Then yes, you were there. Jesus. Well, I mean, I was still there a lot doing clutch cargos and stuff. Right. Clutch cargos.

Do you want to explain what those are? Because you did hundreds of clutch cargos. That was a bit where we would talk to, Conan would talk to a celebrity by talking to a photograph. We would cut out the mouth. Right. And usually I played the celebrity, but occasionally it was people like Brian Stack or Brian McCann. Right. I'd been wanting to do, it was one of my earliest thoughts was Conan could interview people in the news as a running thing

and we would just have actors playing celebrities. And then Dino one day in the early months before the show came on, just said we should do something with Clutch Cargo, which was a big Chicago thing. Everybody, Dino's from Chicago. Did you know what he was talking about? I knew what he was talking about because I had spent three years in Chicago and it was like a comedy staple among improv people like Clutch Cargo, you know, that kind of crap, because it was the funniest, lamest. It wasn't something I grew up with,

but people in the Midwest grew up with where it was literally a cartoon show, but they didn't animate it. They just did stills of a superhero named Clutch Cargo and the people he interacted with. And they were all still photographs, still drawings, but they cut out the mouth and that passed as television back then. Right, right, right. But they cut out the mouth and that passed as television back then. Right, right, right. So Dino had said we should do something with that. And I immediately connected it with celebrity interviews and thought, oh, this is going to be way better than making people dress up in costumes.

And it's much dumber and self-aware. Right. Yeah, that's right. Self-aware, which gave it a layer of irony, much like Triumph, where you instantly are cut some slack for like in Triumph's case, bad puppeteering. And in this case, bad impressions. Thank you very much. You're a great impressionist. I'm pretty good. You are. Pretty good. And you do it all with the mouth, which is even, that's harder. Or easier. If all you have to focus on visually is the mouth,

Donald Trump's fish mouth and that kind of thing. Right, right. Or Arnold's grimace. I do miss that terribly. That was the most fun I had. Clutch cargo. Doing those, yeah. More fun than Triumph because I just show up and...

Right. You put your chin on that little rest. Yes, on a little blue chin rest. And you guys would write great jokes. In the early years, I would help write a lot of them. But yes, by the time the mid 2000s, when you were running it and or even earlier, I would, you know, sometimes I'd call you with an idea and I'd have a bit for it. Right. You guys would write these amazing jokes and I just couldn't wait to do them. And it was just a great outlet for me. And I really miss it. I mean,

Jesus, I would have had so much fun doing Trump. Were those all done live? I mean, can you explain how you did it? Well, there was like just a little chin rest off to the side of the stage. I did make sure that I told the director, I want the person, whoever does it, to be seen by the audience, but to be off to the side. So they're in on the joke, but they're not distracted. So I was like all the way against like, you know, one of the opposite wall that Conan or by the wall. Yeah. Conan was at his desk and spoke to the TV monitor, obviously, that had the photograph. And I was all the way on the other side of the studio doing it so that people could peek at me if they wanted to and feel like they were in on the joke. They were in on it. Yeah. Yeah. That's all. Which is great.

Well, that's such a, it's so symbolic, I think, of the tone that you set there of the voice of the show being both funny in its own right, but also self-aware. And like you said, ironic, like we're winking at the fact that we know we're kind of slapping together a comedy show and it's always. Exactly. Exactly. The cheesiness of it was part of the, uh, was a big part of the charm. And, uh, yeah. Yeah. And I, I remember that first one we did, uh, with Bill Clinton and maybe the most exciting moment of my career in terms of like, just because the first show had a lot of great bits that did great and it was super exciting. But the second show was the first time we did a clutch cargo and it was such a big swing. It's

such a crazy bit. We wanted to do it on the first show, but Lorne wanted actual items, which was a great bit. He wanted Conan running the bit and not playing straight men. So that's why we did actual items on the first show. But the clutch with Bill Clinton killed so hard, and especially this one moment. So we were rehearsing in the afternoon, and I remember saying to Conan, feed me the water from his mug. I was Bill Clinton and I wanted him to hold up his mug and I was going to take a drink, his water. And then, so he holds the mug up and I do it. And then he says, no, lap it up like a kid. So I did the, with my tongue. And that's what we ended up doing on that. And that night. And the laugh was just, that was the first really huge laugh we, we got on the show on that second night, that moment.

It was, it was just such a thrill because it was, you know, because we were building this show from scratch. Right. To have that kind of reaction on the second show already was amazing. Really amazing. I mean, honestly, that year was insane. I'll never forget it. It was just, but that's like probably my number one moment at the Conan show. Well, doing the Clinton clutch, there came a time where you actually did it in front of him. Oh.

Wow, yeah. That was a crazy night. Oh, my God. White House Correspondents Dinner. Oh, my God. That was in 95. Yes, Conan got invited. He's done it twice.

He's done it twice. The first time he did it, he was very raw, but he was amazing. Yeah, he killed. He did it in 95. And I think the Clinton clutch cargo had a little to do with why he may have gotten invited because they were well aware of it and they wanted us to do it. So we did. But before we did it, Conan had about a 10 minute monologue, I'd say.

And it was fantastically written. written. He delivered the jokes great. And he really could have just sat down and it would was doing this to show what a good sport he was, but he was laughing so hard. It was almost like he sounded like my impression. Where were you in relationship when you did that? Were you out on the stage? I was very similarly. I set myself like. So the crowd could see you.

I set myself so that the crowd could be aware of where I was, but I was all the way... Off to the side. So now, I mean, there's a huge dais at these things. And it's like 3,000 people. It's a giant crowd. Yes, the nerd prom. The nerd prom, we used to call it.

There'd be celebrities in the audience as well as the entire Washington you know, Washington media. It's a very big room. And so I was way off to the side. And I think people were aware of it, but not nearly. It wasn't nearly as easy to spot as it would be in an empty studio stage, you know? So, but I did it and we were killing. And a lot of it were like jokes about how it was that thing we used to do on Conan almost.

Like the premise of Clutch Cargo that sort of set off Clinton's behavior was, I just always thought it would be funny that it's 1230, nobody's watching, Clinton can say whatever he wants. Right. Like that's why we presented him as sort of Clinton's id. Right. An exaggerated Bill. A way exaggerated Bill. Yeah. Did you first meet Conan at SNL? Is that where,

and do you remember when you guys met? Or is that blurry? I don't specifically remember the meeting, but I remember hearing about Conan like two years earlier because I was assigned to, I think it was my second year at SNL, maybe 1986. The summer of 86, I was assigned to write a Superman 50th anniversary special for CBS. And I wrote it with Bruce McCullough,

brilliant Kids in the Hall writer, and Rosie Schuster, and another great writer from the original SNL. And we were looking for someone else to help. And Viti, John Viti, who was already on the staff, told me about Conan and said, this guy's just another level. Ran the Lampoon for two years. And trust me, he's the funniest guy. You don't even need to read his stuff.

Just hire him. And for some reason... And how did John know him? You know, poonies. They just, they never leave that. Oh, okay. He was on... Yes, he was a Harvard Lampoon guy and Conan... Do you call them poonies. They just, they never leave that. Oh, okay. He was on, I, I. Yes, he was a Harvard Lampoon guy and Conan. Do you call them poonies?

You've never heard that expression? Poonies? I have not heard that. No. No, it's a real expression. Maybe they don't use it anymore because it has negative connotation. Because Letterman was very Harvard heavy. Right. I think Conan and I both had like a slight, I don't want to say prejudice, but there was a part of us that both wanted the show to really feel like visual and performance oriented.

And we may have had just a sense that like most of the guys submitting wrote for the page and had a kind of a dryness that we weren't looking for. You know, Conan, his personality is nothing like a Harvard stereotype. He loves to be big and silly. Yeah. The stereotype of being bookish and kind of... Or wry.

And writing satire. Yeah, and dry. Yes stereotype of being bookish and kind of. Or wry. And writing satire. Yeah, and dry. Yes, very dry. And tossing off quips and wearing ascots, which all Harvard writers do. First lampoon guy we hired was Brian Rich, actually.

Ah, right. He's a great writer. He's a genius. He's one of the all-time most brilliant guys I've worked with. Hilarious. Yeah.

You know what? That tradition, at least on Conan shows, where anyone went to college never comes up. Yeah, now we don't even hire college graduates. Good. I mean, if you take the time, there's brilliant people everywhere, obviously.

Yeah. But yeah, I mean, the show has always, I mean, after I left, it got even more Chicago. You know, I mean, once you started hiring. Late Night, The Conan Show, yes. Yeah, Late Night, Stack and Glazer and McCann and Dorff, I mean, those were all guys hired after I was there.

We're never going to get to Triumph. No, let's get to Triumph. Yeah, we got to get to Triumph. Tell us about the birth of Triumph. I think I told you last time how my wife and I were. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we were newlyweds and shopping for furniture. And this cutesy store had a rack of whimsical puppets that were realistic animal heads. And I'd never seen puppets like that.

They were like rubber animal puppets that looked super real, not cartoony. And it just cracked me up. And I put one of the dogs on and immediately sniffed her ass with it in the middle of the store. Right. And of course, being my soulmate, she giggled, thought it was funny, didn't have any problem with it. And then for my birthday, which was like a couple of months later after we were married, she surprised me with like seven of these puppets. And like there were like three dogs and a couple of cats and like a seal and a sheep, all of which I ended up using in one way or another, an owl. I remember the owl. And then like a week later, the Westminster Dog Show was

in town and Letterman was doing his found humor, which I'm sure in the last show I said was the opposite of what we were trying to do. And he just had Westminster champions running through the aisles, which was really funny. Just these show dogs just behave like crazed. Gone wild, yeah. Yeah, but I was like, oh, well, I got these puppets.

Maybe we could, again, so I just wanted to do the opposite. So like, okay, let's use these puppets and have them be very talented and have Conan say the Westminster dogs get more talented every year. And here's the dog who, and the first dog sang the theme from the bodyguard.

And then we would have dogs doing dueling banjos. Right. And magic tricks and balancing plates. Magic tricks. A dog would saw another dog. Yeah, plate spinning dog on the nose. Oh, so those were all your puppets that you brought in. Then we bought new puppets

from them. They found out where I bought them and they got a whole bunch of them. And we had a dog that one year lit its own farts and we had the dog who did the Jack Nicholson impression and put his paw over his forehead like a hacky Jack Nicholson impersonator. Right. I am Jack Nicholson impression and put his paw over his forehead like a hacky Jack Nicholson impersonator.

Right. And I'm Jack Nicholson. You can't handle the truth. And I made Louis and whoever else. I feel like I would bring in Glazer. I don't know why, but not in the early years. Well, I think you guys, you did that the first few years. So it became a tradition.

Yes. And everybody had to have a Russian accent because that was my crazy thing that I'd always heard in my head from my Russian relatives from when I was a kid. So, yes, so that's basically where... And then, like, in 1997, I just called John Groff and said, we never did insult comics, so let's... I have this idea that I just had in the shower

where a dog, an insult comic is so limited that all he can do is pay a compliment and then say for me to poop on. And that's what, that was it. The joke was on the dog being so bad. But then I said a couple of funny things too. And then it just became this thing where you could satisfy everyone's cathartic need to have Conan insult on John Tesh or William Shatner, whoever the first guest was.

Right. You'd come out after the, for a while, you'd come out in this little puppet theater. Yes. And we'd get the first guest to agree. Yeah. You know, and a lot of people are like, oh yeah, how bad can it be being insulted by a dog puppet? Exactly. Little did they know. Yeah, it was John Tesh.

William Shatner, David Hasselhoff, Lucy Lawless. Don Rickles agreed. Well, that was amazing. That was, by now, triumph was huge. Yeah, he was huge by the time Don Rickles did it. I wrote some jokes for that one and I was so excited.

Oh yeah, which one do you remember? Eating Alpo out of the toilet. Oh, oh, oh, that was good. And you look like a chew, I have chew toys that look better than you. Yeah, yeah, Which one do you remember? Eating Alpo out of the toilet. Oh, that was good. And you look like a chew. I have chew toys that look better than you. Yeah, yeah. That was good. And I had the thing where I had them make a tiny little toy toilet. Right. Because then I turned on and I said, I worship the ground you poop on, Rickles. Please poop on me, Rickles, please. And then the puppet ducks down and a toilet emerges and Triumph's head bursts through the toilet.

I'm begging you, poop on me. And Rickles had no idea what was going on. Right, right. He was never put in that position where he had to play a straight man before. Right. So I remember all he said was, wonderful animal.

I know, he just stared. Wow. It was awkward. It was a little awkward. I know. I was bummed he wasn't laughing. But we told him what we were going to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was exciting to meet him. I remember meeting him backstage and he says, hello, rabbi. I'm sure he did that for like nine out of 10 Jews that he had back then. But I was so excited to meet him. Originally, Triumph wasn't even a body. Triumph was just a head with a boat. Right. I never thought of having him do anything beyond just sticking his head up from a puppet stage. None of the puppets did back then. And

then we tore open a... Then when I realized that I wanted to occasionally bring on poodles and share hot dogs and try to hump them, Right. I said, he needs a body. So Bill Tull, our prop master, bought a doll and just gutted it and cut the head off of a... A dog doll. A real dog. Yeah. So it doesn't match at all.

It's like a plush doll. No, it's furry. And a rubber head. And it doesn't match. But that's what Triumph is. Since then, it's always been that. Well, but that's what Triumph is since then. It's always been that. Well, and there are multiple Triumphs too, right?

Yeah, everybody asks me that. There are multiple Triumphs. The first one like melted on my windowsill. Been through so many. And yeah, we used to have to buy them from like, once Triumph became famous, the company went out of business. It was a Mexican company, I think, right? Yes. Mask Illusions.

And I should have looked this up. I found out the name of the guy who actually sculpted the original Triumph, who still lives in San Diego. And I communicated with his daughter and I do want to meet him someday. But the company went out of business, so we couldn't buy them anymore. So then there were people who bought them up, and we'd have to buy them from them on eBay. It's like buying an early web domain name. Yeah, exactly.

Sign up to Tribe Puppets. Yeah, yeah. And so one of the reasons I wanted a sitcom with Jack McBrayer was just so that I'd have an excuse to get a mold made and make a lot of new triumphs, whether the show worked or not. They had a mold. They did that at late night. I remember once going into the- They made a mold of triumph at late night?

Yes, the makeup lab. Oh, I remember this. They do all the latex masks for this. It was because we needed a second one for a sketch, then we were out of them. Yeah, I remember we did- I remember going in there, there were six in various... They were in various...

States of painting. States, stages. Some were just the white mold. Others were slowly being painted in. And I almost screamed when I walked in. It was like aliens. It was terrifying to see six of them gathered together. After the first Triumph, which was in 99,

and we should talk about the first one because- The first remote. The first remote. Yes. You played a big role in Jordan Schlansky. Jordan had his first cameo on- Oh. No, but no, that wasn't in that one.

But Jordan, the thing wouldn't have happened without Jordan. But I just want to say that one one was mostly improvised and it was amazing because we'd never done anything like that before. You guys even submitted it for an Emmy and we didn't win because everybody was like, Oh, this must be improvised. Right.

And then sadly, many years later or four years later, you submitted the star Wars one, right. Which had many great jokes that were pre-written by all of us. Right. And some that were on the spot, like Dorf and Secunda. Andy Secunda was there.

Were with me. And both of them came up with unforgettable lines. Andy Secunda had the most famous line. The line that's quoted to me more than any other line is uh when i said to when triumph said to uh barth vader he's this is the panel that allows me to breathe and then triumph and i secunda i didn't know what it was and so i asked secunda because i wasn't as big on star wars as these two guys were especially secunda so And then he immediately just gave me this joke. And the reason I'm giggling

is because I've literally just heard the joke. And it's like, and which button do you press to tell your parents to pick you up? Yes. Did we explain what the Star Wars... What was the... Yeah, we should explain what the Star Wars remote was.

If they've ever seen anything that I've done, that's what they've seen. Triumph went online. There was a line for Star Wars, Attack of the Clones. Every time there'd be a Star Wars in the 2000s, there was this publicity-driven thing where people were invited to stand online for days before. Days. Outside the Ziegfeld Theater. The second time it happened,

Triumph was already a big deal. And my friend Harvey, who I went to nursery school with, literally, and was still friends with, he became a high-powered lawyer. And he worked in an office right across the street from the Ziegfeld Theater. And he called me up about this line and told me I should go over there as Triumph. So I pitched it to you guys. And Mike told me that Conan was already pitched going to the Star Wars line himself. But then you pitched Triumph doing it and Conan realized immediately that it would be funnier and less mean. Again, it's that layer of irony that Triumph has. He's got a cigar in his mouth, and he's a little dog puppet, and he's representing an old-time kind of comedy, and he's got a gold bow tie. And all these things allow him to be more like

the low-status court jester kind of figure that makes everything he does less mean. I mean, that's one of the secrets of why I think people, I never get in much trouble doing Triumph for that reason. No, people love him. They love to be roasted by him. Yeah, it's just because he's kind of cute and harmless. And so he immediately said, oh yeah, have Triumph do it instead.

Yeah, and that's still, I'll never top that. I'll never top that one. And that's fine. But let's, let me, I just want to talk about 99 and the, we got to talk about that because. Yes, I want to come back to that too. The first Westminster dog show remote. Because it's an incredible story. So the first time, Triumph was already probably the most

popular character on the show, I would say, by 1998, just from his appearances after each interview. There was Pimp Bod and the Masturbating Bear, and they were incredibly hilarious. But I think Triumph was the big character on the show at this moment. And then Mike writes to me and says, why don't we go to Westminster and you can hit on dogs there? And I just thought it was perfect. And I had no idea if we'd get in. So Jordan, who everybody wonders what he does at the show,

and I'm not even sure what he does now, but Jordan Flansky back then was the field producer, essentially. He was in charge of making remotes happen. We'd never done a remote with Triumph, but Jordan got permission to go to Westminster. And we didn't do as much preparation. Like I said, we didn't write jokes for this one. It wasn't the same kind of... We didn't know. Yeah, yeah. I just thought it would be funny enough just to interact and make quips and- Hump. And of course the humping. We knew we had a great ending if we could just get to some of these dogs. So the guy calls back and revokes our permission like a day before. And we're just, Groff and me,

we're just like, oh, okay, I guess we're not going to do it. And we may never have tried to do a remote again. Jonathan Groff was the head writer at the time. Yeah, John Groff was the head writer. We may never have ever done another Triumph remote, but Jordan Schlansky was not going to give up. Instead of letting it go, Jordan came up with this whole, you know, this whole scheme of...

It was one of his greatest moments. Yes, it was the great heist of 99. It's the last time he did work on the show. I know. I think he retired after that. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. No, he did a lot of stuff with Triumph over the years.

Right. He literally printed up fake NBC IDs for us. Press credentials. Some sort of credential. Yeah. It just said NBC on it and it was laminated and we all wore it. And they worked. Because we couldn't go

with late night credentials because that would have been a problem. Tip it off. So we pretended we were media and some people at the show were worried. The puppet was from NBC Nightly News. Yeah, exactly. The puppet was hidden in his Dwayne Reed bag.

That's for sure. You know, and of course, some people at the show were worried, this is a little dicey, and Jordan, in a very Jordan kind of way, like justified it. Like, you know, he's like, well, given that we are indeed employees

of the National Broadcasting Company, I do not consider it in any way, you know, any manner of trickery. Right. Very Jordan-y kind of rationale. No, it made the whole thing much more exciting. He also did like, you know, Intel. He scoped out the dog show.

Right. You know, so he says, go in and just, if anyone asks, say we're NBC, he found a loading dock. Right. Don't go through the front entrance, go through this loading dock in the back and just act, he's like, you know, proceed with confidence and self-assurance and a sense of purpose. You know, these were the Jordanian kind of

instruction. Right, right. talking to real dogs backstage. Right, where they're being groomed. And that's when things got... Yes. And we didn't last very long talking to the dogs, but Jordan knew that we were going to get thrown out. And so he actually told our cameraman that no matter what happens, just keep shooting. Even as we're being thrown out, whatever it takes, it'll end up helping us to just get whatever we can. And I pissed off a dog groomer at some point, you know, I probably knowing triumph,

it was probably a poodle. And he probably made, I love, I love it's knowing triumph. No, I do. I'm channeling. Right. I'm, I'm becoming something else when I'm, you know, I lose myself. Yeah, I know you channel. Triumph via me said something that probably implied that this little poodle was gay. I'm guessing. And I'm guessing that the groomer got offended by that and we got ejected. And then Jordan made it a point to keep bullshitting the people who wanted to throw us out. Like he was trying to protract the moment. Yes.

He was trying to buy time. Yes. And he's like, but I spoke to so-and-so and I spoke to so-and-so and it didn't matter that the person, the so-and-so that he spoke to had said, don't come. Right. He was just like.

I had such great admiration. He really, that's when I first learned what a great bullshitter he could be. He just. He was incredible. Kept going and and they, he tangled everyone up for a few minutes. Yeah. And he's like, you know, then later he's like, well, technically I felt completely justified in my statement. I wasn't lying. I did indeed speak to these people. I just omitted the fact that they said no. So we ended up, cause we finally got the person like covering the camera whatever you know with their hand pushing them away right that was the ending we needed and uh you know if we had given up honestly i don't know uh yeah you needed that getting tossed well we know but the

whole thing was the only reason the the remote existed was because of everything jordan did to make it happen in the first place. Right. Wow. I honestly don't know if we would have done more remotes. Like, that one was such an enormous hit. Yeah. That, of course, we decided to do more remotes after that.

But I don't know that we ever would have. Well, we've run out of time. We've done it again. So you're going to have to come back in 15 months. Yes. 15 months. God willing, we're all here and healthy. That's right. Podcasting is still a again. So you're going to have to come back in 15 months. Yes. 15 months. God willing, we're all here. That's right.

Podcasting is still a thing. Thank you. You're such an easy guest for us because you just. Yes. It's just a lot has happened. A lot has happened. A lot has happened. In 25 years.

We always end now. We ask our guests to give some advice. Oh. To people starting out. Advice for people starting out. Just, yeah, whether they want to be writers or performers or puppeteers. Find ways to do the work. And I know this is contrary to other people who say,

become an intern or get connections. I'm like all about do the work and find like-minded people to do the work with and just gain confidence. And then you'll get better in the process. You'll make friends that way. None of them will be connected necessarily, but maybe one of them will get the break and that'll be your break. But more importantly than connections, I think it's just about finding like-minded people and working with them and building your confidence and getting experience. To me, if you're doing stuff that's, the 50s throwback chain. Yes, he was. And he said, yeah, it's better to just get that work out of my head. Like, you know, put in my, you know, six hours of waitering and it's got nothing to do with comedy. And then I can just focus on the work, you know, because sometimes I think people get, dilute the goal by, by focusing too much on the end game. Like, how am I going to get connected? How am I going to get this job?

Yeah. Instead of just focusing on how am I going to get better? Yeah. Cause you're right. Well, even if you got an opportunity, you don't want to get the opportunity before you're ready for it. That's true. That's true. You want to be as good as you can be when that opportunity comes. Yeah. I actually think I would have been done better at SNL. Three years later.

No, I really would have actually. I would have had a more sense of confidence in my style of writing. And instead, I kind of went there trying to figure out what they wanted for a couple of years, really. And it still worked out. It worked out. It worked out. All right, great. Well, thank you.

Thank you so much, Robert. All right, guys. And stay safe. Always nice talking to you guys. And that was Robert Smigel. Ta-da! It was great to have him back. And maybe we'll have him back again. Who knows? Of course.

There's still plenty to talk about. We've been loving your fan letters and voicemails. It's truly, I love our fans so much, or at least the people who call into our line. So please leave more voicemails and call us at 323-209-5303. Or you can always email us if you're feeling voice shy. Our email is insideconanpod at gmail.com. And that's our show. See you next week. We like you. Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast is hosted by Mike Sweeney and me, Jesse Gaskell. Produced by Jen Samples. Engineered and mixed by Will Becton.

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