Inside Conan: An Important Hollywood Podcast - Writer José Arroyo Revisits His Many Fumbling Technocrats

Episode Date: January 28, 2022

José Arroyo joins writers Mike Sweeney and Jessie Gaskell to discuss the origins of his Euro Guy character, the 2007 Writer’s Strike, following The Tonight Show to Los Angeles, and collaborating on a cartoon with Conan.Got a question for Inside Conan? Call our voicemail: [phone] and e-mail us at [e-mail]

And now it's time for Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. Hello, welcome back. Hi there. To Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast. Still the same title. We don't have enough brains to know to shorten it. Anyway, my name is Mike Sweeney. I'm Jessie Gaskell.

And we are the hosts of this podcast as well as former Conan writers, future Conan ex-friends. Future running into Conan in a parking lot. Hey, man. Yeah, let's get together. Yeah. Future running into Conan in a parking lot. Hey, man. Yeah, let's get together. Yeah. And then it's like, oh, shit. I shouldn't have said, let's get together. That was too needy.

I know. But then he'll cancel. It'll be fine. Don't worry. Right, right, right. It all works out. We all know how it's going to play out. Anyway, hello.

How are you? Hello. Oh, I'm great. So when we last left off, you are somewhere. Yes. An undisclosed location. Right. Doing punch up on a movie.

Yes. I gave kind of a bad hint last time. Oh, I thought that was a great hint. That was a great hint. Very clever. I should have been more specific, I guess. I don't think so. We'll get more specific. Yeah, because we're going to try to stretch this out over 28 shows. And that way we don't have to talk about anything else.

It's like if the pace of Wordle is a little too fast for you, this is even less thrilling. Guess where Jessie is in 28 tries. Yes. Not six. Over the course of a year. Hey, a bell should go off. It's our first mention of Wordle. That's right.

We might be the last, I'm sure the last podcast to mention Wordle. To talk about it. In their opening remarks. It's already out. Are you playing it? I'm assuming you are. I am. Yeah, me too.

I like it. Yes, it's fun. It's low stakes. There's no timer, which is great. I add high stakes. My wife stands's fun. It's low stakes. There's no timer, which is great. I add high stakes. My wife stands here with a gun at my head. And if I don't get it, it's like she's going to pull the trigger. You do it while you're driving.

Right. If I don't get it, I'm not going to stop at this stoplight. I wonder if people play it while driving. Of course they do. Maybe they are. Yeah, I'm sure. Oh, yeah. So I was going to give another hint.

My last hint was that this is a, I'm in a former monarchy. And then my new hint is that I'm somewhere where there are no squirrels. Ah. Uh-huh. Which is something I always notice because I am hardwired like my dog and she you two are always on the hunt yes we're always hunting for squirrels semi rodents and i had noticed this but i confirmed via the internet and it is true that there are no squirrels here wow there must be some sort of what's the big squirrel substitute on wherever you are uh it must be something oh squirrel adjacent

now it might give it away if i say oh let's not talk there are other rodents but they're okay more exotic oh an exotic locale uh okay that's a good hint no squirrels and a former monarchy i would love to rule a country that didn't have squirrels in it. That would be like... Yeah. That would be my first accomplishment. You'd be the king of that country. I'd take credit for the lack of squirrels.

For exterminating the squirrels. But there is, you're right, there's always some other thing. There's always like something that people end up considering to be pests in the rodent family. Well, it does sound like you're awfully busy. If you have time to notice, there are no squirrels anywhere. It sounds like a lot of downtime wherever you are. Lots of long walks through the park.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, okay. So I'll keep thinking of clues. guys keep thinking of guesses okay yes and if you get it right you get to come visit me oh i shouldn't say that well if you oh yeah if you pay for it yourself and we don't speak while you're here no i meant you jesse pay oh if i pay for it well yeah you just invited somebody i assume it's on your no i think if they get it right they get to come visit here themselves on their own dime. And try to find you? Interact with them.

Yeah, they can try to find me. I'll be wearing a striped shirt. Okay. Horizontal or vertical? Well, that would give it away, wouldn't it? Okay. All right. No more hints.

Yeah. If anyone listening wants to figure this out, instead of doing Wordle, this is a new Wordle substitute. What about you? Where are you right now? I'll give you a hint. It's the same place I've been sitting for the last two and a half years every day. And it's starting to smell bad. Well, at least you have your sense of smell.

That means you don't have COVID. That's true. That's good. You know what? I started training to do that stupid Alcatraz swim. Are you serious? Yeah. That's great. And then I realized, I don't think I've ever trained for anything in my life. You've never tried to do anything. I've never tried to accomplish anything. It's always just come easy. Yeah. Like I'm kind of making a plan. Yeah. Training's, I mean, it's so nice to have a goal, I think,

because then it gives you purpose for your training. And just for my sad existence now, I'm just like... For your life, yeah. Are there online, do you find a training schedule for doing it? Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. But I got a watch. Oh, the gear is the best part.

Yeah. It counts the laps for you. Like it figures out when you flip. Oh, the gear is the best part. Yeah. It counts the laps for you. Like it, it figures out when you flip. Oh, cool. And so you can daydream or do whatever. And it tells you. So how many laps is the Alcatraz swim? Well, that's a mile and a half. It's a mile and a half. So that's a, that's a lot of laps. But you have to do it in like an hour tops. Oh, or else what happens? Well, they just leave you in there? You can't sign up for it unless you can do a 40-minute pool mile. So that's what I'm trying to do.

Yeah. Is A, swim a mile. Yeah. And then find out and get it down to under 40 minutes in a pool. So that's like two goals right there. Yeah. I mean, that's pretty grueling,

especially when the consequences of not doing it are death. Right. Once you're out there. No, I'm sure they'll, I mean, they fish you right out. Yeah, yeah. So. They just have a little hook on your back and you just pull you out. Consequences being mortified.

Oh, yeah. In front of fish. But I'm, I still like in the pool, this pool I swim at in Pasadena, there are people who I think like women who I think last had children in the 1950s are whizzing by me. It's just, oh boy, it's hardcore there. And so you have to, and you have to share lanes with people. So they're like, are they lapping you on in the laps oh yeah no i i don't i go in it's off peak so so no one will get because people would get bad at me if they had they swim around this big lamox they would honk yeah basically and swimmers are like they're like cyclists they're i look the word is assholes but but no, you know, like, like the way bikers sometimes just are like, and once they're going, anything that gets in their way is a problem to them. Please keep us posted on your progress. Oh yes. Okay. Our guest today, it's writer and comic and artist, Jose Arroyo.

Jose Arroyo. Let's get him in here. Yeah, we've had him on the show once before. If you've been with us since the beginning, we have spoken to Jose before, but we got to go a little more in depth with him this time about his beginnings at Conan. And he's been with the show since late night. So he has a lot of perspective. And he's had so many great bits on the show over the years.

Oh, yes. Many of them starring Jose Arroyo, by coincidence. Always a pleasure to chat with Jose. Yes, here's Jose. You know, it's funny, we were going to get together today. Yeah. Yes. Here in L.A., the writers have kind of created a very active

alumni association. I don't know how to call it. Yeah, we're the seniors who graduated, but keep hanging around the high school. We're loitering around the parking lot. The school got torn down and we're still in the parking lot. It's a Walmart now. Yeah. We were going to get together. And then the rain, which was rare here, just washed it all away. Yeah, we have a very low tolerance for discomfort in LA. It's true. It's true. It's true.

Well, Jose, we want to have you on for many reasons. And we can talk about whatever you want. But we did want to talk a little bit about your beginnings on the show. Cause we've had you on inside Conan before, and we've talked a bit about Conan without borders. But I don't know that we ever really got to hear your origin story and how you ended up coming to the show and how you got into late night writing in the first place too.

Bitten by a radioactive hack. And went from there. My origin story was, I was working for Dennis Miller on HBO. He was the first person to ever hire me to write a professional show, Dennis Miller Live. That was only 26 weeks a year. So then I had half a year free and politically incorrect with Bill Maher was like down the hall from the Dennis Mel show. And I would go over there and staff right over there for a little while. When both those shows kind of wound up ending, I started scrambling around. I asked my agent to help me find another job. And I got a call that they wanted me to interview at Conan. And this was in 2002. So I have been with Conan, this is 2021 now,

18, 19 years. And I've been there for a really long time. Did it fly by? It kind of does in the same way that anything you're super, super engaged with. I'm going to say like a video game that you really love that you raise your head and it's like been 10 hours and you've been playing a video game for 10 hours and you realize you've gotten nothing i've wasted my life

but it was 10 years but i was 10 years yes exactly and so you were doing both those shows in los angeles in los angeles yes okay so my agent said hey they're looking for somebody over at uh at conan are you willing to fly out for the interview? So I said, sure. This was before Zoom. It was well before Zoom, yes. Zoom was a children's show. Yes, so I took a propeller plane to New York and I met with Mike Sweeney.

And I reminded Mike that he and I had done standup together in Patterson, New Jersey. Outdoors. Outdoors. I remember that. I remembered that gig. And I remember it because you gave me a ride back to Manhattan. That's right.

We had a great time. Wow. Except for doing comedy outside, which, of course, as any comedian will tell you, is not ideal. But I had to remind you that we had done that at least eight or 10 years before. Right. So flying back was kind of, it was odd to see you again. You had my sample material. They told me to write up some jokes. And I had a bunch of stuff, of course, material from the Dennis Miller show, material from Really Clean Correct. And then what I loved about Conan, of course course was that you could

also do whimsical weirdo stuff character-based stuff that the other shows just were not you know they were much more verbal much more monologue type joke and topical monologue joke exactly exactly now conan had that element at the top right uh but then it would just veer into characters like Brian McCann's Preparation H. Raymond. Right. Right. Yes. Not exactly topical. Well, it's a topical ointment. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. When I got the word that I was going to go be flying out for an interview, my wife at the time, Heidi, said, oh, well, then you're going to get it. And I thought, wow,

I wish I had her confidence. But that was... Well, you came so highly recommended. I always remember, I don't know if Dennis Miller told Conan this or who told us that they're like, you were just such a killer great writer. And also in the writer's room,

you were often the guy dennis miller who would kind of have the last funny line in the room that would kind of literally end the conversation because it was so funny wow that's a great reputation to have you know what that is something you lived up to your entire time at Conan, I would have to say. I don't know if I ever told you about that, but that's- No, that would have been nice to hear. I feel like I died and this is a eulogy. Fuck him.

And fuck him about the compliments. Well, no, you wouldn't want to get inside your head. I'm sure I'd probably tell you that at some time. I was, yes, you, yes. I've heard very nice things from you over the years. All insincere. No one dishes phony compliments like Mike Swingate. No, but seriously, you were highly lauded.

Oh, no, it was at the time I think I joined, Andy Blitz was there, Alison Silverman was there. Of course, no, it was at the time I think I joined Andy Blitz was there. Alison Silverman was there. Of course. Yeah. Michael Gordon and what I call the Brian angle, Brian stack, Brian, Brian, Kylie and Brian McCann. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And what were your immediate thoughts of the show or of the writer's room? Do you have impressions from those early days? So before I got an actual career writing on TV, I had been part of a theater sketch comedy group in Charlotte, North Carolina called The Perch. And we had a 60 seat theater above a shoe store. It was seat of the pants.

You know, we wrote, tried to write a new show every week. And Conan was like the perch with a budget, with a huge, like you had real costumes, real makeup, real special effects, real prop masters, people who could make anything and could turn it around really fast. So I feel like I leveled up from this, um, from the from this. From the shoe store. From the shoe store, exactly. Got a real nice pair of kicks. Yeah. It was touch and go for a while, but I'd have to give the edge to the Conan show.

By the time I got on in 2002, Conan had hit his stride. There was a generation of writers before me that really kind of founded the voice of the show. Right. Would you agree? Absolutely. Well, and was that part of, I mean, when you had heard there was an opening, were you familiar with the show's comedy and you thought, oh, I think this would be a good fit. I'd like to work there.

Or were you kind of applying all over the place? I was applying all over the place? I was applying all over the place. I was applying for the late night show on CBS as well, which was again in that CBS television city building where a lot of this stuff was being shot. So in the end, actually I had to choose between staying in LA and going to New York. And I chose New York because it just seemed like a more fun show to do. Oh, did you have an offer from that CBS show? Yes. Yes.

Oh, I never knew that. Yes. Wow. So that's really, that made the decision, I think, a lot harder. Oh, yeah. Especially with a new baby and just a lot of thought going into it. I think the quality of the shows or the show's voices were so different that it really wasn't too much of a stretch. I think we were also excited about living in New York City.

Right. The interview was at 30 Rock and Fella. With a job. With prospects. And my wife had never lived in New York City before, and she was very excited. So we stayed there from 2002 to Conan got The Tonight Show. Right. And it was really tough to, to move back to LA and more for her because she had fallen deeply in love with New York city. Oh, and of course our kid was in school there. PS one 87 shout out.

And then back we came for the tonight show and then the TBS show. So I've been on three, if you count the travel shows, four incarnations. Kind of keeps getting reincarnated. Right, right, right, right. It's like, okay, I'm still one of his minions. How soon after you started as a writer did you end up on camera? Do you remember? Everybody has an inner ham. I think that's part of the reason why you would want to write for Conan if you had some kind of performance desire or something.

I don't know if it was about less than a year in, I pitched, I guess there were dating reality shows going on. Right. dating reality shows going on. And I asked to do a pre-tape where I was going on a date that I had to pay for. And it turned out to be, I was going to be with a prostitute or something, but I had no idea. And that was the idea anyway. And I would say it was a B, solid B effort. The one who carried the day on that particular show was Andy Blitz, who it was, again, the idea was these new reality dating shows. And he had decided to date himself. And he was going on a confession cam and saying, yeah, I picked myself up around 8 o'clock and we went dancing. Oh, right.

I remember that. Do you remember this? Yes. I just remember thinking, okay, that Do you remember this? Yes. Yes. I just remember thinking, okay, that's the way it's done. Wow. So it took you almost a year before you started appearing in things? I shouldn't say that because such was the pace of the show that you would throw anything wooden into a fire. Like if you needed the fuel, you would say, okay, we need

Jose, get in there and, you know, put on the outfit or whatever. And that, that sort of seat of the pants last minute thing. But I guess what I'm going for was the first thing I remember recording or, you know, taping for, for the show and then presenting at rehearsal was that reality dating show. But yeah, I'm sure i i did some some walk on character on new characters or things like that which are right well but it's also different to write something for yourself versus to be a player in someone else's sketch because when it's when you've written it and you're performing in it there's sort of two levels on which to worry. That's true. But let me ask you this, Jesse, when you're performing for somebody else's sketch, do

you put more pressure on yourself than when you're doing it for your own sketch? Yes. That's a good point. Because you think, oh, I'm going to make or break this. Yes. Not the writing. And yet when I've written it, it's only the writing that matters. So it's a double bind.

Yes. It is a double bind. I don't, I, I'm such a people pleaser. I don't want to ruin anybody's bit with either a live flub up or, and I always say, listen, if you didn't get it, if we're like taping something ahead of time, if you didn't get it, just ask me to do it again. Just ask me to do it again. Yeah.

Yeah. But I think after a short period of time time once all the other writers get to know you they're literally writing it like oh this is perfect for jose yes this is perfect for jesse and and that i would hope would probably relax you a little bit to think okay yeah and they're not going to expect me to do an australian accent. Exactly. Exactly. They'll fly in Brian Stack. Brian Stack would be Australian. Yes. Yes. Yes. I don't know if your viewers or your listeners can hear the glasses I'm wearing, but I look a lot like a doctor. I look like a doctor or a mid-level management official. So I put on a lot of ties and a lot of lab coats.

Yes. You would play doctors a lot or technocrats or people working in government. Yeah. Rubber stampers. Anybody who's slightly over their heads and don't quite know it and are fumbling a little bit, that's my sweet spot. Cause that's where I live in life. Two of my favorite characters you did didn't fill any of those descriptions. One of them, I literally just came into my head now and I'm so glad it came back to me. Captain Fun? Captain Fun. Sure. He was a children's. You played a children's. A children's TV show host. Yeah. When Conan and Andy or Conan and Max Weinberg were having an argument, they were like,

that we would script an argument. And then I would step into the doors and I'd say, looks like Conan and Max Weinberg are having a fight. This is called, and I would open my hands and a graphic would appear, a conflict. Let's see how they resolve it. And then Conan would recognize me and go, who oh i'm captain fun i i saw that you guys were fighting and i thought it would be a good time to teach you know a lesson about conflict to our kids and i at the time i was asking the props department because i wanted i wanted to have a captain fun was like a

ship's captain and i wanted to have a parrot that I could pull a string. It would be on a track on my back. It was a wooden parrot that I could pull a string and it would kind of appear on my shoulder. And the string got jammed and I kept just yanking and it wouldn't come up. And it finally came up, but it came up with a lurch. You know, and then of course the timing was off and the VL. And it wouldn't come up and it finally came up, but it came up with a lurch. And then of course the timing was off and the VO for the parrot was off. And yes, when something misfires, especially if it's like technically complicated, that is his sugar rush, mother's milk heroin. It sure is.

He loves it. He loves it. He probably went around and sabotaged the little track the parrot rode on. Exactly. He put a penny on the track. He was always tinkering with the hydraulic. Yeah.

What if we go back and everything that went wrong was all sabotaged by him. You have a particular talent for, you're also really good at pretending it's not on purpose, but I know it is on purpose, for enraging Conan with characters that you do. Yes. Just choosing people who you know intentionally are going to frustrate or... I like to poke the bear. Push his buttons. I do like to poke the bear. He kind of has a big brother vibe to me.

And you have big brothers. Right. Exactly. We both have big brothers. Yes. And I think there's a lot of this... I don't know if we all repeat certain dynamics from our our lives and stuff but anyway that's the the sort of the grooves that he and i

fell into and it's a lot of um you know obviously he has all the power he's and yet because you're in that pocket of a we're in the same family i can you sometimes. It's just fun sometimes to, to poke him. That's the other character I was going to mention was where you'd play this, the kind of snobby Euro guy in the audience. Yes. Euro guy. Did you create that organically out of that kind of office back and forth of

kind of getting in Conan's face? Good question. To a certain extent, it came... So I think Euroguy came from a lot of things, but I'm from Spain. My parents are from Spain. So I would go to... When I was a kid,

I would go spend summer vacations in Spain and then we would come back to Ithaca and New York. But in that time, I met a lot of people who were very snobby and said, you know, you're Americans. You kind of have primitive ideas about sex and about violence. It's all very simple, very childlike and so on. And I remember these people criticizing me and I had a foot in both worlds. I was Spanish, but I was also an American citizen. So, and I just exaggerated that character and I gave him a feet sort of snobby superior shoes like that.

Right. Fashion forward. With great names. Yes, exactly. Like Schnarchsfreusen. Yes, exactly, exactly. So you just dip your feet in warm latex and then step on chips of cork and those are your shoes. Right, right.

And yes, i would sit in the audience and say things like that wouldn't happen in europe you know and connor would just get interrupted and say could you please not you know that's true you'd you'd never admit what country you were from you'd always be like where country from europe europe he'd ask what my name was i'd say gustavo and he would repeat it i go no no no and he would say no no no and so on so that was gustavo from barcelona but then then that has become the template for your relationship with him yeah off camera yes so he latched on to that and gave that to me as a personality quirk or whatever. And so when we were in mono meetings before the show starts and Conan's pacing and going through the monologue and stuff,

suddenly he would turn to me and say, Jose has a tiny little wallet, which has a quarter of a piece of pear in it. And it's zippered perfectly shaped like a quarter of a pear. And that's his effete European pear holder. And he would just like ad-lib these nonsense things that he said I would own or have. And then you'd go out and buy them. Yes, I remember. You'd go out and trademark them. I remember when you showed up

and you had a leather folio for your- Three by five cards. I had an index and I got that i think i got that like at a b ultimate it's like some fancy store in new york and i got it because i liked it i actually i have to cop to that one but it was like it was an imitation crocodile leather and it was bright green and it held nothing but three by five cards it was so low tech but also fancy and stuff yes and i pull it out and his eyes just become like saucers like what is that what is that and i happen to have a rail thin pen with that it looked like no other pen and i started

making notes with this like tiny skinny skinny, skinny pen on this crocodile imitation leather. Dipped in liquid ink. It was just, she goes, that enrages me. And you, I'd see you, you would wait until his eyes were on you. Yes, yes. And then you would deliberately pull it out. I would try to pull it out. Yes, yes. Like one dog to pull it out. Yes.

Like one dog showing off a bone to another. Such a provocation. I was a provocateur. Yes. But he got back at me because then he started drawing cartoons about me and in that character. Right. He would draw a picture of me on a dry erase board. Right.

Because Jose is intimidated by a child's balloon. And in my thought bubble, I'm saying, don't make eye contact. So he just leaned into it. But then you and Conan went on to collaborate on some artwork together. Can you talk about that? Yes. So in 2007, I started donating. Yeah, I did donate. I started submitting cartoons to The New Yorker.

The Writers Guild was on strike, and so we weren't working. And I said, oh, let me, I've always wanted to submit to The New Yorker cartoons. And I got an interview there to submit a pile of my drawings. And Robert Mankoff, who was the cartoon editor at the time, looked at my drawings and he said, I think I've said this to you guys before. It was, we, we have a lot of naive artists at the New Yorker, but your stuff isn't good enough to be called naive. Oh my God. New Yorker, but your stuff isn't good enough to be called naive. Oh my God.

And I burst out laughing. There was no other, like, I think he was, I'm pretty sure he was going for a joke. Yeah. But it was like such a low blow. Let's say. And hilarious at the same time. Right. Because, but you are funny. So keep coming back.

And then months and months later, I wound up being able to sell a couple of cartoons to the New Yorker. Oh, man. Was that literally where you were in his office at the New Yorker? Yes. Wow. Yes, at the time. Again, the show was down, so I would go every Wednesday and sit there with these legends, Sam Gross and George Booth and Gahan Wilson I met there. And everyone had to bring them in person?

Yes. Wow. Oh, wow. Jack Ziegler. And pull out their folio of index cards. And pull out their folio of index cards. The only person I wish I'd seen was Roz Chast, who's like famous and great artist. But I felt like a little child there.

These are... Wow wow that seems so intense so now would they all in unison see each other's cartoons at the same like when you handed yours in did these legends see them or no no no so you had him you had him in your hot little hands and then you would be allowed into the office and it would just be you and the editor and he would physically just go and he would hand like 99 of them back to you and uh and then you know have a little conversation and then you were on your way every now and then he'd say okay we'll see about this one like he would consider them he couldn't say yes or no there because i think it's more of a committee decision down the road he would say okay, okay, well, this one could work, maybe, you know, that kind of thing. Did you and Conan do two comics for the New Yorker or was it

one? We did one, but he had pitched three different ideas. This is me looking for, because I, you know, it's, it's somewhere I could find it. No, but so the one they bought, his name was not on it. And it was the famous George Seurat, Sandy in the Park, Pointillist painting. And Seurat has it on his easel and his thought bubble is this would make a great jigsaw puzzle. Because that's how most people see that paint. That was Conan's idea and he gave it to us and he gave it to me. And I, using very rudimentary Photoshop and stuff, I angled an actual illustration of that and then drew the rest of it,

drew the artist, his little, you know, Garrett and everything else. And I put it in a batch of submissions and that was the one they bought that week. Oh, wow. We'll go with this one. And I had the pleasure. And they didn't even know that it was Conan's.

They didn't know it because I put Arroyo O'Brien or something like that. Because sometimes if someone suggests an idea, they didn't know it that it was Conan's. They didn't know, because I put Arroyo O'Brien or something like that, because sometimes if someone suggests an idea, they didn't know it was Conan O'Brien. So then I had the pleasure of telling Conan, hey, we got it. We got it in. No idea when it's going to come out, but it's in. And then in April 2019, it finally came out. And yeah, and then somehow I still have the original.

And I thought, wow, that would be a really cheap Christmas present if I gave him back his drawing. Yes, smart. Yeah. And then I could, you know, maybe we could hang it up at the studio at the new recording studio or something. Oh, yeah, that's a great idea. He also gave me another idea, but it couldn't be for The New Yorker because it shows a picture of a guy seated on a toilet, his pants are down on his ankles and he's reading a book. And the book is called how to shit.

So the drawing came out great. I just don't think it was, I think it was not quite New Yorkers standards. There's only one way to find out. Exactly. Submit it. Well, could we really quick, thank you for bringing up, by the way, is not quite New Yorkers standards. There's only one way to find out. Yeah. Exactly, submit it. Well, could we really quick, thank you for bringing up, by the way,

the writer's strike, Jose, because I don't think we've talked to anybody about the writer's strike that took place in, was it 2006? 2006 into 2007. Yes, it was resolved in February, I believe of that. But you were there during that whole time. Yes, yes. And that was the WGA had initiated a writer's strike.

I forget what we were striking about then. Money? I think we wanted less money. And we won. And we got our demands, yes. Yes. We always prevail. But the writers had to actually physically go on strike.

We did. I mean, did you go picket? We picketed outside of 30 Rock. It was winter and we all made provisions. The Writers Guild's organizing committee would send you an email or something and say, okay, you're part of this group. Go out to the Astoria Studios in Brooklyn or is it Queens? Again, it must be Queens.

In Queens, which had a bunch of shows for NBC and go out there and picket for two hours or however long the shift was. I can't remember. Right. I made a lot of friends with people from different shows precisely because we were all out on the street. And after our picketing session ended, sometimes we'd be like, oh, you know, let's go get a drink. Yes, exactly. After a hard day of picketing. Of picketing, exactly. Let's defend our rights and then go, yeah, have a beer. I would compare, because I'd picket too, and talk to writers in LA who were picketing,

and the writers in LA were much more vigilant about their picketing. Like in New York. Well, the weather was a lot better. The weather was better. But in New York, we'd literally stop walking and it would just turn into one big, it was like a cocktail party because it's the way Jose's described. You'd meet all these people you've always wanted to meet or it's just like a big group of people

have all this stuff in common and people would just stop and start going, oh, well, yeah, oh, you know him, I know, and joking around. And then there'd be one person would be like, come on, that would start doing chants again. Pencils down. I remember one time people were like,

oh, could you tone it down? We're trying to talk here. Like they literally, but then I talked to friends out in LA and they're like smashing on cars, driving through. There was an incident of violence that I remember hearing about in LA where a writer got his foot smashed or something. Somebody drove past the picketers in a rush and hit one of them. Right.

I do remember picketing outside of 30 Rock and a person coming up and saying, how do I get a job on Conan? And it was a young man who was really eager to- Hi, I'm a scab. Well, this is your lucky day. I mean, I want to start tomorrow. When you got word that you were, that the strike was over and everyone was going back, were, I mean, were people thrilled?

What was the feeling? Mike, you must've gotten the word first, right? That we were heading back or you were the head writer at the time or? The writers would hear all the news from the Writers Guild at the same time. So overall, that was a pleasant memory. It was, I think, very tense and not enjoyable. And also you didn't know how long it was going to last or when it would end. And I don't know what your experience was, Jose.

That was the same. Same. Not knowing when it was ending was the worst part. Right. I guess that's the same with the Kellogg Strikers now. That's part of the trouble. This isn't a romantic, fun experience. Let's not do this again.

Yeah. If we don't have to. If we don't have to. If we don't have to. Exactly. Exactly. So that was in 2006 or 2007. And then by then, or close to that time, Conan was saying, well, we might pick up stakes and go to L.A. Yeah.

Right. So what was that news like? I mean, I'm sure people were excited, but also you said, Jose, you guys weren't charge you when you sold it. And then they voted that if you sold your apartment, you would have to pay an X percent fee, seller's fee or something. And we were the first to have to pay. So it stung on the way out, which is maybe the way you should leave New York is just with a little bit of grit, a little bit of pain. We tried to keep the place. And then I said, no, we are going to be at the Tonight Show for at least eight years.

Sure. There's no reason to keep an apartment in New York. Put it on the market immediately. Let's put it on the market immediately. And so she stayed and dressed it up like she did her own staging my ex uh did her own staging and made it look fantastic sensational it's just a skill and so sold right away yeah to our great chagrin eight months later and then eight months later to make it look so fantastic did i say eight years? I meant eight months. I may have misspoke.

Wow. Yeah. So that. It was catastrophic at the time. Yeah. I have a writer friend who just says, yeah, I can't see. He would say something like, I can't afford to go do this now, but I just got to wait for the well to fill up again. I like that metaphor where the water just goes down and then slowly it kind of fills up again.

So that was definitely a low water. Yeah. Low tide. When the Tonight Show ended. Low tide, for sure. For sure. Yeah. And then, you know, kind of got the TBS show. And then the last 10 years at TBS really was him doing, you know,

not the limitations of NBC, right? But I think he had more limitations on budget. Yes. So a lot of things that he maybe, you know, we could, I don't know if I ever asked for a kangaroo on TBS. That's what I'm getting at. We could get a llama though.

We got a llama, yeah. And I believe there was a baby giraffe on some segment at one point. Oh yeah. You asked for a kangaroo. They're like, we can get you in a possum. It is a marsupial. It is a marsupial.

Right, right, right. There's a pouch. Tweak the script. Yes, exactly. One thing I'll tell you about the tonight show.

I remember we came out, it was studio one and they're like, it was an old studio. And they're like, we gutted it, and we're going to turn it into your, you know, the Tonight Show studio. And I remember going in and seeing the footprint of the studio, of what they kind of laid out everything on the floor, and it's like, ugh, this is too big. Oh, no. Personally, this was my opinion. I think comedy and live audiences on TV, who cares whether a viewer doesn't care how big the crowd is.

Right. I think people work maybe at networks think, oh wow, there's 600 people that, no, to me that's terrible. Like you don't want more than 200 people in an audience and you kind of want it all compact, just like a comedy club. Yes, yes.

Lower ceilings. Yeah. The worse it is for COVID spread, the better for comedy. It is for comedy. That's right. Exactly. It's an inverse ratio.

Yes. This studio was just like, oh, this is too big. Like that was- It was not only big, it had two levels. So there was an upper area that had its own like hallway or whatever. And one of the things we, one of the ideas that we had was we're going to have a separate show for the people in the high seats. And we had to get a camera, a camera up there.

And it would be at one time, I think we hired a woman who had trained poodles to walk on their back legs. Right. And they were kind of running around on their back legs. Right. With their front paws on the shoulders of the dog in front. Yeah. And it was all just because their sight lines were so bad. They were too far, yeah.

God wanted to entertain them specifically. Oh, wow. Believe me, the studio was fine. There were so many little things that add up. There were signs, though, yeah. Pushing a show one direction or the other, you know. Right. Especially given how it started, which was, again, very small, late night, kind of a small crew.

To have it expand, to have the audience size double, I believe, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, you're talking about compared to back in New York City. Compared to the first few years on late night. Right, right, right. Yeah. And then I think TBS, it was kind of like a return to that smaller studio footprint.

Even though we were in a giant soundstage, if you walked in- They made it smaller. Yes, but we tried to, yes, with a lot of drapery- Tried to condense it. And audience seats that were, you know, yes, we could get more people closer together. I remember the physical size of the Tonight Show became a reason to try to come up with things that required big doors. Right.

And I don't know if it was Michael Coleman or Andrew Weinberg who came up with, because we had a pair of, I don't know, 20-foot tall doors. And they decided that- They called them elephant doors, right? Elephant doors. And so they came up with two characters who were 20-foot tall Mormon missionaries. So we're not going to knock on that door. Right, right. And I think we had elephants on, you know.

Yes. We started doing spectacle things. Yes. To fill the space, it sounds like. It was the age of the dinosaur and the mammals were starting to come in. Well, sketches got shorter. It was kind of almost like, oh, we have to do quick hits in this big space and then throw it a commercial as opposed to New York where. Oh, you'd have a 12-minute sketch.

Yeah. These sketches would go off. And then it had a different energy in that regard in terms of the comedy, I think. Yeah, that's interesting. Do you remember, Jose, feeling... I mean, how was that for you as a writer having to kind of adapt to all the new parameters

from late night to the Tonight Show to the TBS show. To the TBS show. A lot of it is you get your cues from the physical surroundings, you know, a bigger space, you try for bigger things and smaller is- More money or less money. Close up magic, more money, more budget, less budget.

That all informs what you want to do. But then also Conan's sense of humor is also evolving. So the stuff that he enjoyed and maybe he would start to tolerate. And then at some point he would get sick of because he had been doing it for a decade or something. So every now and then I think, Mike, I'm sure you can speak to this. He would, he would say, all right, that's, I don't want to see that sketch or that bit or that idea again. So that also kind of contributed to us always evolving. And also, I think one of the plans was to try to come up with all new things for The Tonight Show. And then again, for, they're very, like once in a, we'd bring back a reference to the masturbating bear, but we'd all kind of feel dirty doing it. I mean, I think we all agreed.

We need our own masturbating bear. Right, right, right. Still masturbating. Bringing that old possum. But yeah, I think just for our own sake, it was like, let's try to come up with new ideas, new characters or whatever. New house, new furniture, I think was the thinking. And every now and then, like you said, you would feel bad bringing something. Not bad, like, because it sucked, but because it's not challenging you.

Right. We're going back to the well of comfort food or whatever. Comfort food that, you know, the crowd's going to cheer when they see, like, are going to cheer and it's, that gets you through that night, you know, in the short term, but in the long term, it's expensive though. It's not a good lever to try to hit a lot. So on the TBS show, we had characters, I would say Andre Dubichet, one of the writers did a bunch of those where he was the Wahlburgers guy and Tony the cameraman and so on. Right.

Those felt perfect for the space that we were performing. We know you've spent a lot of time off camera with Conan as well. And I was just wondering if you have any favorite memories of behind the scenes moments with Conan. Behind the scenes moments?

On our travel shows, I think a couple of things. When we're traveling, sometimes we're in a lounge together and, you know, it's just him and me and the dynamic stays. There's no guard to drop. There's nothing. But actually I'm the more nervous of the two because I don't know. I feel like, oh, this is a big, big guy, a big star, you know, and I'm still a little starstruck by him to be honest. But he's just shown his human side um i've taken pictures of him on a hotel balcony in australia when we were in australia and and we had to go to his hotel room to work on a bit and he was just

staring out at the sky and stuff i go i feel like such a like such a camera you know whatever like a cheese ball paparazzo but it's a great great picture of Cone staring out at the, at the Sydney opera house or whatever. So fancy and stuff. I'll never, at least I didn't put myself in and just, you know, push my foot toward that. But I do miss that. He has sent me letters. He got a typewriter. He got a manual typewriter as a gift. And because he respects these classic authors from the 20th century, like Dorothy Parker, he decided to write witty letters on his typewriter. And I have several of those.

And so that's where he kind of has written me fan letters. And I'm tickled to have them. I mean, that's part of it. Yeah. Yeah. And they're at the top. It's like from the desk of Conan O'Brien. From the desk of Conan O'Brien.

Yes. And dear sir. And there's sometimes little typos, probably intentional. Probably intentional. He has to make himself look human, look fallible. No, and they fit perfectly on one page. You know, it's just. Yes.

Like, did he plan this out in advance? Yeah, exactly. Or is he really that good? So I have a few of those framed. Yeah, me too. No, they're great. They're great. I also have a framed headshot of him

that I got, I think, eight years working with him says, I look forward to meeting you someday. And could you plug your book quickly? Oh yeah. Oh, so I, so as soon as the show ended in June with the Conan, I had the time to finish a comic book that I've been working on called

somewhere in LA, a book of hours. And it's basically what could be happening in Los Angeles at every hour of the day. So at 3.29 a.m., something's happening. At 4 in the morning, something's happening and so on. So 24 panels, 24 jokes or observations, some of them funny, some of them wistful. Boy, does it sound like I've said this a lot? No, it is.

It's both funny and moving. It's great. I appreciate that. And anyway, it's available on Amazon. And I was telling someone, I said, if you think I'm donating money to Jeff Bezos, please look at my sales numbers. Although I got to say, I was texting, I was about to text Conan because I got a sales bump when he said something nice on Twitter about somewhere in LA. Oh, that's great.

Yeah. I wanted to show him the Conan spite. Yeah. Three extra sales. Three extra sales. Exactly. I tripled my numbers. Well, thank you so much, Jose.

Thanks, Jose. Thank you so much. This is great. All right. Be well, Jose. Thank you so much. This is great. All right. Be well, guys. And that was our friend and colleague, Jose Arroyo. Thanks for dropping by, Jose. Yes, thank you.

Always love talking to Jose. And hey, if you want to thank Jose and us, and if you like the show, you can support us by rating Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast on iTunes and leaving us a review. Yes. And don't, you know, don't feel pressure about what's in there. Just the five stars and it's perfect.

Right. That goes a long way. You could even just type the word perfect and that's ambiguous. Yes. It can be all lowercase. Lowercase stars. And we have a fan question today. We do.

We've been getting a lot of fan questions. Well, they don't specifically say they're a fan. It's a listener question. You're right. Well, I thought you could hear the quotes in my voice. Yes. What's the question today? It says, hi, Jesse and Mike.

Love the show. Oh, they are a fan. Sorry for the long email, but after hearing about the question shortage, I wanted to do my part. Question shortage. The supply of questions. They've been backed up at the Port of Long Beach. This is just number one. We're only

going to answer one of the... This person gave us many questions, but I'm not sure you can answer this on the podcast or at all. Guess what? You're about to have your mind blown. I went to a taping of Conan a couple years ago, and during his monologue, certain jokes were accompanied by a sign that lit up and said, applaud, or something to that effect. It's applause.

Yes, it's just applause. Yes. To elicit a greater reaction from the audience. The sign did not seem to correspond to the strength of the accompanying joke. What a great observation that everyone who's ever been to a Tape Universe show has made. How is it determined which jokes get the sign? And is it considered a great honor or great shame

to have your joke backlit by the sign? Oh, I like this question. and that's from cameron thank you cameron with a gay well i will say yeah have you run the applause sign before sweeney i ran it for 15 years yes um well there's an applause sign at i would stand next to our producer jeff ross in the studio which is why I have diminished hearing on my left side from the band. Thanks, band. And the other applause button was in the control room.

And Susie in the control room, or our assistant director, would push that button in and out of commercial breaks and when bands were playing and when guests were introduced. But I got to use my applause button during comedy bits. Very frugal with the applause button. The only time I would use it would be coming out of the last joke of the monologue. To kind of give it a little bit of a punctuation on the segment and

because conan was going from that to the billboard which is when he'd say the guests right the idea was you have a really strong last monologue joke so the applause sign you had to time it so like big laugh hit the applause sign so it go from laugh seamless seamlessly into applause yes i mean a lot of times people just you know tv audiences kind of applaud anyway yeah they're like all right it's been eight minutes we're getting out of act one right ready to applaud so usually the applause sign for the last joke it's just you didn't even notice it but when the last joke, it's just, you didn't even notice it. But when the last joke didn't work. They were, oh my God, it was like, all of a sudden it was a cattle prod.

They were just like, what? Applaud for that? Fuck you. Of course they'd applaud, but usually then we'd be like, oh, let's lose that joke. But lose the last joke, we just edit it out. Yeah. Because if you watched it back, it was so obvious.

It was like a long delay and then an applause. Right, yeah. It was like Cameron was saying. He's like, oh, there was some joke that didn't do well. Yeah. And then we... Yeah, usually the applause sign, I mean, because it would occasionally be used. And maybe by the time I came around, the format of the show had changed a little bit.

So we would have a little bit so we would have a comedy bit in act one before the billboards right that's true sometimes the applause sign would get used during your comedy bit and it it wasn't a compliment that's interesting so you think it was used to kind of salvage a bad situation? Juice things a little bit. Yeah, but you know, as you're, what you're saying also makes sense. I think that it depended where it was because you needed the applause going into the, we've got a great show tonight. Right, right.

And then I would hit it going out to, as he was about to go out to commercial but but i know i if something didn't work i was always like an applause signs like if it's a comedy bit or something and it was ending and there wasn't a button on the end well because that's oh because now we're getting into i i did feel like the the secret of having a successful bit on the show was as long as you had a big laugh at the end, it would save a lot of laughterless airtime in the middle. Right. I mean, obviously, yeah, you want a big laugh at the end. You want a big laugh at the end. But then sometimes whatever you had planned for the end wouldn't get a big laugh. So then it's just kind of hanging there.

Yes. But the plan is always to hit the applause sign at the last monologue joke. And then also at the end of, like you're saying, a comedy bit leading into Conan going, okay, that's so-and-so and we'll be right back with blue bitty blue right after this. Yeah.

Because otherwise people don't know it's over. They're still waiting for the big laugh at the end. It's sort of, the applause sign says it's not coming. It's very Pavlovian for people watching at home, everybody just like, okay, commercial break. Yeah.

Yeah, that was my favorite thing when something didn't get the big laugh and you hit the applause juice it juice it i mean conan used to cut would often comment on it just if it was egregious like on the air just like oh boy i know well and i kind of loved watching because they would cut to you the director would sometimes cut to you and jeff or later on matt o'b and Jeff. Right. And you could see you're holding the little... Right.

The kill switch. I think once Conan said, for some reason called me out during a show, like, oh, it's our head writer, Mike Sweeney. And I just held the button up on camera and I hit it hard. Yeah. And milked the applause.

You had to be there. It was pretty funny. Do we have an applause button for our podcast? Oh my God. I was just thinking that. If we did, we would be using it now. Oh boy. Oh boy.

Go ahead, Sean. Insert that applause. We did two live podcasts, right? We did. Yeah. I would do another. They were fun. They were really fun. We didn't need? We did. Yeah. I would do another. They were fun. They were really fun.

We didn't need no applause sign. No. Well, there might've been one, but they didn't show it to us. There were a lot of exit signs. I remember those. You know what? Alcohol is a suitable applause sign as well. Yes. Oh yeah. Well, Hey, thanks Cameron. I think we answered the question. Thanks Cameron. And you know what? If you want to help us with our question shortage, you can call us at 323-209-5303 and just leave a message. You won't have to talk to anybody. Or email us at insideconanpod, P-O-D, at gmail.com. And hey, that's it. That's it. Quick and painless. Come back for a checkup again next week. You'll get a lollipop. We like you.

Inside Conan, an important Hollywood podcast, is hosted by Mike Sweeney and me, Jesse Gaskell. Produced by Sean Doherty. Our production coordinator is Lisa Byrne. Executive produced by Joanna Solotaroff, Adam Sachs, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco. Engineered and mixed by Will Becton. Our talent bookers are Gina Batista and Paula Davis. Thanks to Jimmy Vivino for our theme music and interstitials.

You can rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts. And of course, please subscribe and tell a friend to listen to Inside Conan on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher,

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