Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - A Stress Test for Late Night Comedy [LateNighter Roundtable Podcast]

Episode Date: January 30, 2026

As the news cycle intensifies, late night is facing yet another test. From scrutiny of SNL’s response to escalating tensions in Minneapolis to the evolving role of late-night hosts, Bill Carter, Mark Malkoff, and Jon Schneider examine how comedy is holding up under pressure in this month’s LateNighter Roundtable podcast.

Hello, everybody, and welcome in to Late Niders Roundtable for January of 2026. My name is John Schneider, so excited to be back with you hosting another monthly roundtable talking about all the biggest news in Late Night Television. And joining us once again is the editor-at-large for Late-Nighter, and that is Bill Carter. Bill, how are you? Good. Great to see you guys. Happy to see you, Bill.

And joining us as well is the host of the Inside Late Night podcast over at Late Nighter, and that is Mark Malkoff. Mark, how are you? Doing great. Thanks for having me again. Yeah, happy to be back with you guys. We skipped over December. It was the holiday, so, you know, a little bit less news than usual. But happy to be back with you to talk about everything that's happening at the start of this calendar year. And it has been a crazy year in late night, outside of late night already.

We're only like, what, three, four weeks in? So, you know, that's where I want to start with things here. We'll do sort of this like overall arching question. These late night hosts have had a lot to deal with over the last few weeks, with all of the news that's coming out. Bill, how do you feel like they have handled what has been happening in America? I think they've had to step up and they've stepped up. I mean, you know, it's hard to be funny about some of this.

I mean, really very, very hard. You know, either it's grim and dark or it's so fraught with, you know, contention that it becomes really hard to make it consistently funny. And frankly, they don't do that. They are being sort of straightforwardly comment or political commenting. And I think that's difficult. But I think it's very watchable. And because it's on every day, which is what I think is very essential in late night

to have that access to daily events, I think they're making themselves kind of imperative watching, which is what late night at its best does do. Mark, I feel like we have a potpoury of chaos. there's always something that's happening, whether it's outside of America with Trump trying to acquire Greenland or all of the absolute insanity that is happening in Minnesota. How do you feel like the late night house have handled it? I think that they are all handling in their niche way. I mean, I think Jimmy's Kimmel's been just, I mean, he has kids and he is speaking in his mind. I'd say he's very brave to do what he has just because I'm guessing just in terms of like him walking around

on the street and stuff he's going to need security. I mean, unfortunately, I mean, I, he's speaking in his mind, which he does. Colbert's doing the same. They just announced when he's stepping down in May. And Jimmy, you know, still is doing what he does. Very, very niche with it. But I think it's the elephant in the room. And Saturday Night Live got, you know, this past week for some people for not talking about Minnesota, they still did a cold open and still, I think, you know, had their fun with Trump. But you can't be everything that you can't please everybody is what I'm trying to say at the end of the day. Yeah, that's very true. I mean, I think no matter which way you go, especially if you're your SNL, you're going to, someone's going

to be upset. So I think ultimately, you just have to make a choice and run with it. So we'll talk about decennial in a moment. That'll be our second section here today. But I want to just talk first about these late-night hosts, Bill. Do you feel like there is one that stood out above the rest this past month with the way that they handled all of the news? Well, I would say I think Stewart has been fantastic. I think he's been fantastic because he's only on once a week. So, you know, he gets a lot of, you know, he puts it all into one show. But he has been as passionate as the other guys, but very, very funny. I mean, I think he's been really funny.

And that's been, I think, the challenge of this, because, you know, you hear from people like Conan when he was talking about, you got to be funny. I think you do, you do have to be funny. And Stewart is doing it with tremendous edge. I mean, there's no doubt he's presenting it in this very passionate way. But, man, I've been laughing out loud at a lot of the stuff he does. So I think he has stood out on that level.

mixing the two extremely deftly. Yeah, John's doing a great job, and it is one of those things. It reminds me of when Johnny Carson was only doing a couple nights a week, everybody looked forward to when he was actually hosted. And when John is hosting, somebody has tickets to the show or he's going to be on, it has become, for a lot of people, appointment, television again, which is nice.

Yeah, absolutely. That's very true. Just recently, we had Stephen Colbert visit Seth Myers. He hadn't been at his show since 2014, so they had a nice conversation about him returning to late night and talking about and announcing the end of his show. And Bill, I thought that they had a great conversation

in terms of us understanding that these hosts actually do text each other to job on your pieces, which is, of course, we know, we're in the time where these hosts get along much better than they used to. But I just thought that was fascinating to just hear like on a dated

day someone might be covering something very difficult and then Seth is going to text get a text Colbert or vice versa. Well, I think they, you know, obviously they had their podcast when they were shut down whatever, you know, and they got, I think they got pretty damn close. I mean, they do share a lot. I think it's interesting when they're on and they mention what else they've done together. You know, like I guess Colbert had Kimmel on recently too. And they say, yeah, well, you know, we went fishing together and I'm like, they're, they hang out. I mean, this is. And you know, you can see the reason why this works.

Like if anybody else has a very unique job, like they have the same demands and the same creative impulses or whatever. So they should actually mesh because the notion of competitiveness seems to be off the board, completely off the board now. So their natural inclination is to share, is to share things and get along well. and it makes sense it isn't the best to write about. Conflict is better. I mean, from my point of view, it's been very good to me.

It just seems like a generational shift. I mean, where people, the competitive is, I'm sure, is there and somewhat, but people just come together. I think it's Saturday Night Live as well. The environment is probably a lot better than it was in the 70s or 80s. I just think it's a generational thing. There used to be at SNL, lots of shouting and on other late night shows where the stuff, that stuff would not happen.

I just think people have gotten a lot nicer. You're right, but I also think there is, except Jimmy Fallon, who I don't think disagrees necessarily with the other guys, but he doesn't participate in that, at that level of commentary. And so he's not, I don't think he's as sympathetico on that level. But the other guys are really sympathetico. I mean, three of them are the same manager. Oh, Dick said, Baby Doll, yeah. Baby Doll is managing all three of those guys.

So they have sort of interests that cross over into business a little bit. You know, Baby Doll has done a lot of syncing up of their contracts at various points in case, you know, something happens to one of them and the other guys available at the same time. And so they've had, they have the common interest there. Well, I think what's interesting is that you said, it's like, less interesting to write about now. And, you know, obviously... If you're going to write a book, I... For sure.

You want a narrative, and there's not a lot of conflict than this one. Yes, and you would know better than anybody. So obviously, conflict can be more interesting. But I do think that there is a fascinating component to the camaraderie now, which is that in a month like this, where there is so much daily news testing late night, I think having your late night brothers to rely on to sort of see what they're doing and how they're covering it, actually probably. makes them better? Like, I wonder, Bill, if they push each other. Well, I mean push themselves creatively.

Yeah, exactly. Like, just knowing that someone else is doing such a good job makes you want to do even better. I do think that's true. I think what's amazing to me is that they don't often completely cross over in the jokes. You do see some of the jokes are kind of the same, but some, you know, when there's a development, you think there's an obvious joke to make, right? And everybody's going to make it. And that does happen. You know, Greenland was an obvious joke, right? You're going to make fun of Greenland. But it's interesting to me that they don't actually parallel quite as much as you might think,

which may be just the way the staffs work or whatever. But I also think that they, you know, anybody that's under fire gets into same foxhole. You know what I mean? Like that's for protection too. And those guys have been under fire. their jobs have been threatened and when Kimmel was well first when Colbert was forced

forced off the air you saw them come together and say it's outrageous and then when Kimmel was being attacked that really raised the level of defense among these guys and they they all banded together to sort of come back and interestingly

I mean Colbert for example brought his character back to comment when Kimmel was out of right so there's and above and beyond kind of thing when they're under fire, I think, that they want to stand up for each other. Yeah, totally. Mark, you alluded to what Saturday Night Live did to speak on everything that was

happening in Minnesota. So just to recap, Alex Prettie got murdered on the day of the Tiana Taylor episode. So, you know, there has been, you know, a long history, over 50 years of S&L being able to respond to things that happened live. You know, some have been very serious in the past in other eras. And what we ended up seeing on that Saturday night was that they opened up the show with the first Trump awards, a long sketch where Trump had a lot of his comrades there to help him win more awards. And they didn't really address everything I was going on, except for one joke in Weekend Update, where Michael Chea called Ice Dix, and then later on in a sketch almost towards the end of the night, where they were having two white news anchors and two black

news anchors and the black news anchors were responding to the white anchors saying that everything that is happening is sort of unprecedented and we got a reaction from them. And from being in the SNL streets a little bit, it seemed like that really didn't play well for a lot of SNL fans who felt like they completely did not address what was going on. How do you feel that SNL handled everything that was going on this January? It's really, really hard, I think, to, again, please everyone. There were still, the details were still coming in, I think, at some extent, what was going on on Saturday. I don't know.

I mean, the cold open was still good, I thought. James Austin Johnson, did he write that himself, by the way? So he writes with the headwriters on that. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I thought he did a good job. I think it was a really, some of it's very clear how SNL, when they've handled situations like this before. I think this was a little bit harder with details still coming in. But yeah, I don't know

if there were other ideas that were floating. But yeah, there were viewers that are still not thrilled with how it went. Bill, how are you feeling about it? Well, I thought that there was a lot of cleverness in the opener. And I like that. I like them taking the idea of him with the awards, you know, stealing the awards, which is a crazy thing. And it sounds like a stoutherstalles. sketch to begin with, like it's already a sketch that he's taking somebody's award away. And they expanded that that was a clever thing to do. And so they put a lot of work into that sketch, a whole lot of work into that sketch. It was very long, I thought, for a cold open, too. So I admired all of that, but I thought surely at some point they'll address this in some fashion

because it was the same day, which is very demanding. It was exactly the same. It was exactly the same day. So they've done the run through. They've done everything for the show and now they have this thing to deal with. But you can always write something into weekend update. You really can. That is flexible. You can't really blow up a cold open and start from scratch and you can, but I would think it's a tremendous challenge to do that. So I just thought like I think a lot of people who have longtime viewers of the show, they're going to say something about it. They're going to say something about it. And I was watching and thought, this is a different time, I guess, because this is a government that doesn't like them saying something about it. If they can come

back and say, you know, this was by it, whatever, they're a little bit eggshell walkers too. And I don't think Comcast wants to get in the bullseye the way the other people have been in the bullseye. And Lorne doesn't want to, I don't think, either. I think he wants to be, I think he wants to be, aside from me, he has to comment on it in certain fashion, but not be openly taking positions. And I think Mark's point is that it was a little unclear. It was mostly

clear that the guy certainly was shot and killed. You could certainly get to that. And on any level, that is appalling, on any level that was appalling. In any level, that was appalling in any of the initial videos, you were like, why are they shooting this guy? Like, that would have hit you. But you're going to,

if the next day they say he actually pulled the gun, and had it in his hand and was going to shoot somebody, then you might say, well, we jump to the gun. We jumped the gun, not to be using the wrong metaphor there. Still, in my head, if I was on the show, I would have said, what do we got? Give us something on this. What can we do?

Just something in Weekend Update where, you know, not just the Che joke, but something that captured the seriousness of it. Because I would imagine, even though those people get there, somewhat early to go to the live show. They were aware of it. The news was out. They knew what was going on. And the audience would have been, I think, primed for it, too.

It's really tough. I think they're in a little bit of an impossible situation. My take on this was, I don't think you had to go serious on it, where we completely scrapped the cold open and put, you know, Kate McKinnon at the piano or, you know, we're on the opposite. I do think that the best thing that Lauren had ever done to address a serious situation, was post 9-11 when he had Giuliani there and the firefighters. Like, I don't think we need to scrap everything.

There's been times where there's been school shootings. They have done stuff like that. I just feel like this week really exposed something that's been missing from the show for a while now, which is writers that are there simply to write political jokes. And I think that they had that for a very long time. I think they moved away from it for whatever reason. They're like, okay, well, we'll just have our headwriters handle the cold open on Friday night. based on the news. And I think that they really need people who can write politics in the way that

they had with Jim Downey for decades. It doesn't make sense that you're like one of the last, like, live shows on television that can react to something like this, but you don't have someone who's capable of doing that. Let me say, that's a point that really struck me. Okay, this is a show that is in fact live. It's 1130 on the night this happened. People expected something. I was wondering how they were going to handle it. And I was surprised. but I get part of it. I mean, it's so, it is hard to make everybody happy. I did find it interesting,

especially this week when they put up the sketches from dress rehearsal. How many fans were like, why did these not make air? I mean, you're always going to get people. And I have to say, some of the stuff was really strong that they put up. And I think we've all been to dress rehearsal before.

And there's times where we were just scratching your head. I know some of it is that Lauren wants to give certain cast members some they've nothing to do this show we're going to throw this in even though it's a weaker piece but it is kind of a mystery but my point is it's it is very hard to satisfy the audience um with some things yeah i just want to jump on that point which is that i think that this january is going to be known for some of the more egregious cuts that have ever been exposed in s andl history can you mention one or two of them that you we're agree let me start with tommy brennan being cut last week from or the first episode with fin wolfhard from weekend update

talking about Minnesota. I mean, he's a Minneapolis space comic. And in retrospect, having that on the air show would have made up for the fact that you didn't do anything during the Tiana Taylor episode. So that was bad in itself. And then we got a music video. We got a featuring like all of the new players. We got a Sarah Sherman sketch, which was more in the vein of Sarah Squirm, something that the fans have been asking for for years that they've completely neutered her from the show to be able to do that. So that was crazy in itself. And then you had the women of the show going on a walk with each other all wearing weighted vests. And it just felt to me like these were all really strong pieces.

And I don't know what to chalk it up to. I wasn't in the room. But sometimes I feel like maybe you bring in a host that doesn't fully understand the show. And then they pick things that they're like better suited in to do more. But this was bad. The wall club was strong. I thought Sarah Squirm was really strong. The mom's camera role rather was strong.

They got laughs. I think you're right. The host has a lot of power and it could have been the host. Again, some of it just could be Lauren just being like this person hasn't gotten in much. We're going to do this and give them this. And it's impossible. But I've definitely scratched my head more than once going to dress being like, I don't get this. It really starts to look a little like a hypercaution to me.

It really does. And I think the host is important because frankly, she's not that well known. really, right? She's not, she's not as big-name star. And we've not seen her do sketch, and I don't know whether they thought she was capable or whatever. She wasn't bad. I didn't think she had, you know, no talent or anything. But, you know, so they had a sketch with her doing a lot of dance movies, which is very entertaining, right? It was entertaining, but it didn't have any bite, right? It was like, you know, a little flavor. I thought it made the episode a little flavorless, and it just called out for a little bit of bite that night.

And some of those sketches, I think, were a little edgier and had some possibilities. And I certainly as a viewer, I appreciated them more than some of the ones that were on the air. I think some of the ones that got cut were even stronger than the – was it the first after the monologue with Keenan and the host going back and forth at the airport, which was fine. It did okay. I thought it was weak, very weak that you did. Yeah. It wasn't funny. It was like, okay, we've all been to the airport and they keep you waiting.

I mean, like, but that's one of those examples, Bill, where I feel like that's a host pick because she's singing next to Keenan Thompson and is like, okay, well, now it lets me do something on the show and show off my skills. And I think the show should know better. Like, I do think that there's times where it's one thing if you have Alec Baldwin coming in for the 15th time and he says, I want to do this sketch. But when somebody like Tiana comes in, yes, she's an Oscar nominee, but she shouldn't have that much influence over the show the way that I think that she did on.

Saturday. Absolutely right. There are hosts that that had shows going, I'm even going back to the 90s where they had their influence and it really negatively affected the show. I'm not saying that's what happened. I thought she was very likable. I thought the monologue when she cut to her kids on the phone was hilarious. I thought that was really, really funny. Yeah, I agree. The action figure sketch, which was a throwback of David Mandel's Philadelphia action figures from whatever. I think it was 93-94 season. They just kind of took that premise, Tom Hanks' is Philadelphia with action figures, commercial parody,

to a different level. And I thought they did Mikey Day and Streeter once again, hit it out of the park with that one. I thought that was strong. Yeah, that was my favorite sketch of the night by far. I want to talk about something with SNL that's a little bit lighter, which is that we last were here and anticipating the idea of,

like, maybe Bowen will leave the show. And it turns out that at the holidays, he would leave the show following the Ariana Grande and share episode. and we've seen two episodes now without Bowen. Do we feel that the show has benefited from opening up room for anybody else? Or do we feel like the show is missing Bowen right now, Mark? I think it's benefit.

Anybody that's been there for that long, you know, he's definitely missed. He was beloved. But I think if it gives especially some of the newer cast members more airtime, I think it's great. The cast is still, I mean, I watch the 70s reruns, seven people on, stage when they reinvented the show in 86, it's like seven cast members and maybe one featured player. And I just, it's still, even with Bowen leaving, too many people. So I'm glad, even though I think he is going to be missed. And yeah, he did a great job. I think it's a plus for overall.

Well, I think totally that they have too many people. And frankly, if they're trying to service them because we have to get rid of a sketch to get somebody else in, that's really bad for the show. Bowen, I do think, is a guy who had edge. I think that he really, and I felt like they've kind of blanded him out a little bit. This cast is not, you know, who's up there who's kind of outraged about what's going on in the country? Is there anybody really? I mean, because Johnson is a fantastic performer and his impression is spectacularly good, but he's doing the goofy Trump. He's doing the buffoonish Trump. And at times that feels a little off note to me. Like, you know, uh, somebody's getting killed in the streets by masked goons. And like, well, that's a little bit

stronger than him sort of making just asides about, you know, his, you know, his skin color or whatever. It just feels like they don't really have anybody who's got that punch that I would like to see. And I thought Bowen occasionally did that. So I miss him for that. But I agree completely that they need to find, they should pair this down and give the performers that are good more time because it doesn't make sense to me to feature somebody who just doesn't have it. And I don't know where they have it because you don't get to see them. I mean, Ashley and Veronica have gotten a lot on of the newer people. I mean, it's Veronica's first season, right? And she's probably getting the most on. But yeah, we're seeing the newer people here and there, but it'll be interesting. I think that

there's a lot of talent. Yeah, I think they're, you know, we are definitely in a new era. There's a lot of new blood at the show. I think we need time to let these people get to know, or the audience get to know these new people. And sometimes those things develop naturally where finally they do feel comfortable at the show, so they're able to go out as themselves. And as someone who's seen the show since the first year and seen all these iterations, that happens a lot. Yeah. New people come in. You're like, who's this person?

And then after you see them, do some stuff, you say, oh, wait, wow, they're good. I wanted to get your opinion on this. I have never seen a cast member on S&L that's been on multiple seasons. And I'm talking about James, I'm talking about James Austin Johnson, go from so few sketches other than the Trump to suddenly he's in everything or a lot of stuff. It's like, what happened? Like, I know sometimes people get meetings with Lauren Michaels and they're like, like, what can I do?

But I don't know what happened, but it didn't seem a progression. It seemed all of the sudden, and I'm glad he's in more sketches. But John, do you have any insight to what happened or Bill? No, I don't have any insight as far as like knowing any particular conversation that happened, but you are totally right in what you're seeing that it's just been a different James Austin Johnson that we are seeing this season. Good for him. Especially since Bowen has loved the show, I think he's the one that's benefited the most from, you know, Bowen not being there is that they're putting him in everything. And, you know, I often, I may have said this on here before, but I think that I saw a clear path. Like, he was at a fork in the road. And it was like, one way was Darrell Hammond and one way was Dana Carvey. And I think he was walking down that Darrell Hammond path for a long time where he was the show's impressionist. And somehow, yeah, pivoted over to Dana. I'm really glad that he's been able to do both. Because for some shows, it's just.

Mark, I just want to say, I do have a theory that having Dana around for the 50th was really good for James. I think that just having that sort of mentorship opportunity, someone that he's idolized, I think may have shown him the ropes a little bit. That's interesting. Yeah, because James for a while was Mr. Cold Open and then you didn't see him necessarily. So I'm glad. I'm glad that he's been able to branch out. He's done very well. Yeah, Bill, any thoughts on James Lawson Johnson? I think he's really talented. I mean, the guy's really talented. So, you know, if they were, But he's so good at Trump. That's the thing that you know, when when Baldwin was doing it, he was just doing that, right?

He wasn't back being host of the kid. He was just doing that. And I think there was almost a mentality that grew like, well, that's what James does that. He does that. But he's very talented. He can do other things. And it's funny because when he's not in the crazy makeup. It takes, I think it takes viewers a few seconds to really, oh, that's the same guy.

Like, you know, like, oh, yeah, that's the same guy. His Bob Dylan was great. And the Bob Dylan thing was really good. He's just, yeah, I'm glad he's getting more time. He's coming into his own. And it's awesome to get to see. Which happens. It does happen.

Guys, people are given the chance after being sort of obscure and then they explode. That's great about the show. Yeah, it's great for his legacy. All right, let's head overseas for a little bit and talk about the anticipation for a Saturday Night UK. So we are supposedly less than two months until the premiere of S&L UK. Here's what we know so far. We know the showrunner. We know the director.

We know the music director and head of hair and makeup and all of that. But we don't really know many details beyond. There's going to be a six-episode order. It's going to be produced by, you know, executively produced by Lauren and his team. So there's going to be a lot of similarities. But, Bill, as the anticipation grows, because by the time we record this and our next show,

we should have more information. Is there anything that you want to see from SNLUK as they're beginning to plan this out? Well, I want to see the cast. I mean, everybody wants to see the cast. I guess I want to see if they're going to be very Brit oriented, extremely Brit oriented, or whether they're going to be just, you know, on top of whatever's going on.

Because the show business world that we make fun of here all the time, from stranger things to whatever music act is big or whatever, that's a big part of Saturday Night Live. Will they be doing that with British? people, British performers, the, what, whatever's going on with British stuff? Because what's, what's harder now, and I think it's interesting for Saturday Night Live itself, is the monoculture doesn't exist anymore, really, you know? I mean, they did an entire show about stranger things, okay? And that was a big show for this era, but it was not really a universal show. It wasn't

like doing a, you know, a parody of ER in its Friday, in its payday. So, I just want to see what they do because they're on, I mean, their audience is going to be British. That's going to be what they're going for, right? And that's their base. And I think, by the way, I think there's an enormous amount of comedy talent in Britain. And their writers are great. They really have great, great writers. So I expect it to be good.

I really do expect it to be good. I also think six episodes might not be enough. That's true. I mean, Lauren, it took him a couple episodes to get it in 70. before they figured it out. But two things. I mentioned this the last time. I want to know if they're going to stay up

on Tuesday night for no reason whatsoever because you don't have to stay up all Tuesday to write sketch comedy. But I wondered about that. And I wondered also the American style. I wonder if the performance going to be a little bit more toned down in terms of the broad comedy.

It's the office in the U.S. versus the one with Jervais, which was more subtle. Yeah, I'm interested. see what happens. What's interesting about that, Mark, that's a very good point, because what happened with the office, the office was spectacularly funny,

the British version, very funny, right? But also, and this is a very British trait, mean, it was mean-spirited, there was a lot of mean stuff going on. And when they brought it to America, they had a little scene in the pilot where Michael Scott was mean to Pam, right? Because that was in the original.

And that was off-putting for Americans. They didn't like that. He made her cry. right and they and the americans said we don't that's not what we do well so instead of making this the main character be kind of a jerk uh but you know but sort of mean he was a jerk but in unintentionally a jerk you know he was buffoonish he was he was he was he was bethetic and so he endeared him to the american audience you couldn't have done the british other i think but the british do like that comedy they really do like that kind of comedy

they still have their whole thing about putting down the class system and, you know, knocking down idols. They knock down their own idols all the time. They knock down their idols. So that is very interesting to watch. The tone of the show is going to be very interesting. I'm excited to see the host and the music. And I do want to mention before we move on, Jimmy Kimmel, I did see that Jim Pitt does such a good job with the music. And now they're down to two nights a week for music, correct?

Is that what happened? another sign of the times, it seems. Absolutely. And it's, you know, they, I'm sure it's not what they wanted, but it's obviously better than canceling the show. I mean, Seth giving up his band was terrible, but he's on the air. And he doesn't do music. And I know at S&L at one point they were trying to get Lauren to stop doing music.

And for pacing and just tradition, Lauren, we're keeping music made the right decision. But yeah. No, absolutely. So my big thing about S&LUK, I'm just going to put us out there is that I think we're going to get six episodes between March and May. I hope, I think it's going to be a big hit, and I think they're going to bring it back in the fall. I hope they don't let, I'm throwing out all my, uh, no, Thomas calls. That's really a leap in the dark, but okay.

I'm throwing this, yeah, this is all even dark, but come back to this video if I get it all right. I hope they don't let any cast member go between a first and a supposed second season, because if that was the case in the first season of Saturday Live, never would have got the Richard Pryor episode, right? episode seven and you would have just had this moment that really broke through and I just think six episodes is not a lot for this new series to find its footing. So I think it's going to be a hit because I just think culturally there's just going to be a lot of people that are interested in it. Bill, I saw you once wrote a piece about like where or at least some of the late-nighter contributors

where is this going to air? So once we have those answers, I hope that we will be able to figure that all out and everyone should put their support beyond it. Do you both think that the people that they're going to select us like SNL? These are unknowns or they're They're going to have maybe a few people that are a little bit established. I mean, normally Lauren finds these people ground in second city, UCB, that nobody knows who they are. Is that, do you think that that's what they're going to do with this? I think so. I think they will do that.

I think the idea is to make the model what it is. Like, you don't bring in, you know, a well-known comic in the group because then he's the star of the group. Then you know it's going in. Then you know they're going in. And it's great. So far, it's great. Like, let's see who emerges. That's great.

I think that's fantastic. The hosts, though, that is another question. Is it going to be just British talent hosts? Or will that guy an American show up? Because, you know, we've had plenty of Britishos here. So, you know, it's a big movie. Will they bring in an American? A lot of good questions.

Hopefully we'll have some answers next time we get together to talk about them. All right, Bill. So one of the things that you wrote recently on Late Nighter is a potential late-nighter. is a potential late-night Hall of Fame article that you put together. You proposed 10 people who should be in the initial class of the late-night TV Hall of Fame. And if you don't mind me quoting you, you said your criteria for this initial class is those who made significant and lasting contributions to the uniquely American art form known as late-night TV.

So you got 10 people out there right now. How did you come up with your list? Okay. So when I first thought about it, I was like, I guess I'll have to do 25. because it's like, you know, and then when I talked it through, I was like, okay, well, when they did the, you know, the Broadcasting Hall of Fame, whatever, they just started with 10 because they knew it was too big and then they would bring in another class. The same with the baseball Hall of Fame. And the baseball Hall of Fame inspired this because it was the week they were doing that, bringing in new people. And there's always controversy about the people who voted for. Why didn't you vote for this guy? And here's his statistics and here's his impact. And his impact. And there's a lot of back and forth. And the people who vote for it have this crazy criteria about, well, you can't just let so-and-so in because, you know,

he once made a statement about this in politics or some reasons that are obviously outside the realm of justification. I mean, I still think the steroid guys should be out. But anyway, in terms of late night, I just thought, okay, look, I got it. There's some obvious people you have to have Steve Allen. I mean, you have to have Steve Allen. You have to have Johnny Carson. You got, you know.

Dave Letterman. you got to have Letterman. Letterman is tremendous. But then I thought, okay, there's a whole range of people who are sort of in the same category. And then I said, but let's not just do the hosts because you could just do, I can easily do 10 hosts. I can do 10 hosts. But I thought, okay, well, let me think about this. So I think having Lauren in there is essential.

Of course, Lauren is gigantic. He has to be in there. He's automatic. And then I thought, okay, in terms of that, you have. to have executive people. Well, I drew in Weaver because he had the idea. I mean, he started, him and Alan, I put in together because they basically are the inventors of the format. I mean, Alan was only on two years in the late, he, on tonight, only two years. But look, all the things that happened that he put in place, right? So that's why I think, even though

he wasn't a longevity person. And then I thought, okay, I got to have a writer. I mean, you got to have somebody who was a writer and that what thank god there was a woman who was a great writer because i thought we got to have a woman in there and marl marl marco is every justification to be one of the great creators so i thought okay that's a creator and then i thought well hal gurney is as a director was it incredibly important he was there with jack par for god's he was integral and then you mentioned peter la sally too which i thought was nice and la sally who i love but you know he worked with johnny worked with d'i he was there for the whole sort of beginnings and the heyday of the show.

So I had to keep people off. Like Arsenio belongs in there because Arsenio, a person of color, he really had enormous impact. A lot of people have said not that many African Americans watched late night. And he opened that up and he had a gigantic impact. But it was sort of between him and Dick Havitt, okay? And I thought about Dick Havitt. And Dick Havitt did this new thing.

and he brought all this different level of, you know, the counterculture into late night that, of course, Johnny didn't really abuse. And I thought that was so significant. That really felt significant. But I also thought in the back of my mind, I mean, I have to go forward with this. If I want to do it again, I can easily do 10 more. Jack Parr. I mean, par clearly could have been in there, you know.

And I thought, okay, of the guys that are going today, I thought Stewart has to be there. because that was a breakthrough, a huge breakthrough, what he did with The Daily Show, just a gigantic breakthrough. And he's brilliant that. He's absolutely brilliant. When he went away, you realized how great he was, and now he realized it again. So, I mean, look, you know,

the people who, and this was maybe a personal feeling here, but I think Conan was an incredibly inventive. Agreed. You know, I would definitely, if you're doing a second, let's put Bob Costas on later, unbelievable show. I think it's really look at the early podcast.

He's in the Cavett style, right? He's on the path of Cabot. But I didn't include any of the other contemporary guys because I thought, okay, in the front of my mind, what happened with Kimmel this year

is massive that he had this showdown with the government and came out of it that whole. That is a massive development. And Stephen Colbert did now two shows. That was true. So he obviously is a tremendous candidate. You know, and I thought, okay, there's a lot of other people behind this.

Downey, for example, is another guy, another writer that I think is. Smigel, Conan, and SNL. Smigel was on my list. You know, so I would like to do more, and I didn't mean to snub people, but I had to cut it off somewhere. and I felt like I could justify all the people I put up there. It makes a lot of sense. And I think that Hall of Fame is, for whatever, is something that is the most fun, well-debated thing in any sport.

I mean, Bill Belichick just didn't get it. Look at that. It's this craziness that happens with all of these. And I love that, you know, these are your choices. You own them. Maybe people don't agree, but that's okay. But, Mark, I want to pivot to something. that Bill just mentioned, which was focusing specifically on putting John Stewart in, who is the

only guy still going on this list right now. And I find that really fascinating because we have other people who are still building their resume and could they potentially get there. So, Mark, let me get your reaction to all this and we'll head over there. Yeah, I mean, there's the people that are doing it do a great job. I mean, they're still in the midst. It's one of those things where you just don't know where their career is going to go. Letterman started out on NBC in early CBS and became something completely different. John Stewart, his first season, was doing very similar humor to Craig Kilbourne. So it's hard to see where people are going to evolve and the cultural impact. I think some of it is reflection, some of those names that are on.

So, yeah, I mean, it's hard for me to say with the people that are doing it now, I think. You surely, nobody could say Colbert can't go. To me, the Colbert report. The report was genius. That show was amazing. I will say this. I've never heard of anybody that was number one for as long as Jay Leno and not making these lists. Whatever I've seen outlets do the top 10 or top 15, he's not on there. He's the Belichick of this list.

But he's number one in terms of the audience. In terms of somebody that's successful commercially that just does not, for whatever reason. I would think that if I do this again, I would give. serious consideration to Jay because he had two things that I think are very important. He was dominant. That is the audience loved him. And he had longevity. Serious longevity. He was on. It's number one. And his monologue, his opening was, was, was impressive, how long it was. He was a great monologist. He was a great standup. That's what he was. So, you know, you can't sneeze at it. That was, that is a very successful run he had. It's just he wouldn't

have one of the things that I think is important is that he advanced the genre. I'm talking about all these other people. I'm going to say they did things that advanced the genre in some way. And Jay did not do that, I don't think. I don't think he did anything that broke the mold that is distinctive to him. I mean, you mentioned the monologue, that is his thing, but that is what everybody does. That is what everybody does. And if you pick all these other guys, Letterman did all of this wildly creative Conan. Never seen before stuff. And Conan did that too.

And obviously what Stewart did is incredible. And Colbert doing a whole. Steve Allen. Yeah, they're starting people that were innovators. That's right. So let's do a little bit of rapid fire. I'll throw out a name and you say, based on Bill's criteria for these first 10 people,

is this person a Hall of Famer? You can say yes, maybe or no. So you can couch your opinion a little bit, Mark, if you'd like. But I'll start with Jimmy Kimmel. Is Jimmy Kimmel? a Hall of Famer based on the criteria bill. Yes. He will be in the, I would put him in the next thing.

I would. Even though I don't think he has been wildly creative, I think he's done some creative things. I think his personality has been key, and I just think he's a gutsy guy. I admire that. I would agree. I do think in terms of longevity,

and in terms of people, you know, he's been on the air for 20 plus years, and there are a lot of bits in specific moments that I can talk. about that I remember on that show where some of these people have had shows for 10 years and I like it's hard to come up with a couple memorable moments and he has done that for sure yeah there mark I think the report was definitely a show I mean I worked on the show and full disclosure uh it was I thought it was unbelievable to be in that soundstage for how long I was almost there for four years

um I just thought the way that he was able to sustain that that character in the writing was was great. And he does a great job now with the monologue and everything. Yeah, I mean, I would, I would definitely think so, and especially just to be number one and take a political standpoint side. I don't think anybody in late night that's ever happened really to that extent in the history of the medium and still remain number one. I would say the Colbert report was, at its best, gut-bustingly funny. I mean, over the top, he'll hilariously funny, which not many shows are consistently that wildly funny. And it's interesting that in his own persona, I don't think he's as funny.

I mean, I think he's good. He's good. He's very good. But it's not, you don't watch his show and wind up, you know, bent over and laughter. He's, you know, he's clever. Because I don't see him, even though he does a good monologue, that isn't his great skill. He was a great sketch performer. when he was on the Daily Show, at first time I saw him, I was like, who is this guy?

He just had it. He was just so talented at that. So I think he's doing that. But like he hasn't done like, you know, I remember when Gordon was starting. Corden actually didn't know what he was doing and he called me and what, you know, I read your books and all this. And he'll get what do I need to do is, you know, one of the things you really need to do is find a signature bit. Find your signature bit because if you do and you'll stand up. then you can keep doing it and you get known for that.

And he did. He did that. He played to his strengths 100%. He did that. But I don't think, but Colbert had a dozen of those on the Colbert report. He had the word and he had this week and God and all the kinds of things like that. Not so much on this show. Not so much.

And often does not even do a second comedy bit on the show. Now, I'm not saying, of course, to me, I'm putting him in there because I think he's fantastic. But I just think it's interesting. I think his reversion to the traditional format has not played fantastically to his great talent. I think it's important to look at that guy's first year when he had Trump on the show. And it admits he did not really, he was not tough on him. I think it was one question. And the show was completely something different.

It would have been interesting if that would have succeeded at that template and he would have stuck with it. It was a very, very different show that first year. So speaking to someone else who had a. Trump on early. Let's talk about Fallon. So is Fallon a yes, no, or maybe right now? Mark, how are you feeling about that? Maybe. I mean, I thought the 1230 show was, I thought when he was doing more pre-tapes, I really, really thought that that was good. I think they do a good job. I mean, it's just they've done a really good job currently with being with the youth obsessed crowd. I mean, it was like stranger things was almost like an infomercial. Everyone was on. I was

waiting for the gaffer from the show and the best boy to be on the show. But people wanted that. And he did well. I mean, he had those two ladies as the guest announcers over the summer for the, what was it, the Giggly Squad podcast? It's just, it's very, he's good with the younger people. He had the heated rivalry people on, which was like, an algorithm showed them arriving to NBC. And it was like Beatlemania. And then he was able to get them. I think he's, He's very good with a yupp, maybe better than the others with the younger demographic. But I mean, he had friend Liebowitz on, but that's very rare that he'll have somebody like that on.

Once in a while, but it's worked for him. So maybe. I'm a maybe as well. I think he's incredibly talented guy. You can't take that away from him, absolutely. He's just a very talented guy. And when he really plays to that, I think he can be really good. I think they kind of steer into this softer side too much.

I think, you know, the first show Monday after all the events of the weekend, I don't think he referred to it at all. And I, you know, not even at all. And he had Mondaigne. That really wasn't a payoff. That wasn't much of a payoff either because he was doing that joke over and over again, right? And then, and Domney went on. I don't know.

So I really admire. his talent. I really do admire his point. And as you said, when he was doing late night, boy, that was really a must watch for me because he was just doing a lot of original stuff. All the viral stuff in that

particular era, which was so important, they were tremendous way out front with that. I just don't think they do enough of it now. I think he needs to do more of that. El, what do you think would have happened if he would have kept Shoemaker's EP and he never went to Seth and he stayed with Jimmy? Do you think the show would look

different? Absolutely it would look different, but I don't think it would have lasted. I don't think EP's don't last too long with Jimmy. You know, he has gone through a lot of them. You know, I don't know how much Lauren has to do with that, but I think Shoemaker is terrific. I actually really do think he's terrific. So I think he did help Jimmy. I think he helped Jimmy. And if he'd stayed, it may have made more the show, the current show have a little more creative edge. But I don't, I mean, to me it's just, in that criteria, he's got longevity, he's got talent. He strangely enough does not have the big audience, though. Even though he plays broadest, he does play broadest for sure.

He doesn't have the biggest audience. So he does well, though, virally. So it's a different era. It's a different era. And he has done some creative things that have advanced late night. So he has a lot of the things I tick off. I mean, when you think about baseball, you'll look at their stats, and how many times they led the league in something is really important.

Yeah, I think his story is still to be written. There's like a final chapter there of what late night looks like in the future where he could potentially be the last one left. And if he is, what does the late night landscape look like and how is he managing it? So that'll be interesting to talk about, obviously, way down the road. Let's talk about Seth for a second. Is Seth a yes, no, or maybe in your books, Bill? He's also a maybe because I thought he was a fantastic weekend update anchor before he moved over.

One of the best at that. I think the show has been crunched down quite a bit. And I think if I was to say anything, I think they do too much. They're too much on the political side now because a closer look every night is, is basically that, right? And it's always kind of interesting, but it's not big laugh for me. He doesn't have big laughs,

and that is a factor. I mean, you know, if I'm watching these shows and I think that was amusing, I'm pleased with it, but if a show really makes me laugh at a lot, I'm sitting by myself, and I'm laughing,

that to me tells me that's really good. That's why I think Saturday Night Live has been a little off this year, because I haven't laughed out loud as much as I have in past years, even though it's not been bad. The home alone, not even the home alone parody that they did with. That was really funny. That was really funny.

Mikey Day and Streeter. That was really funny, yes. Potential SNL Hall of Famers. So I would give Seth and maybe to, and again, I know I'm probably saying he doesn't have long Jared, but he's actually been on a long time now. Yeah, Mark, how do you feel about Seth? I think maybe. I mean, he didn't reinvent the wheel.

The other two hosts at late and I'm very innovative with comedy. It's just a different approach. The younger people love him. The closer look is what they want. I think he's very good with the interviews, and just I think he's very likable, so maybe. Tremendousy likable, that's for sure. I do think that he probably operates on a shoestring budget,

and if he was able to do things like Second Chance Theater more often, I think there would be more attention paid to watch. Absolutely. I think that when he do that, I really, you know, when he had the jokes, Seth can't tell. He's done bits that I really like for sure. And sometimes I think I'd like to see that instead of a closer look. Yeah, for sure.

All right. Last one I'm going to ask you about. There's a bunch of other late night hosts that we don't talk about too often here, but people like John Oliver and Bill Maher, the other members of the daily show. Is there anyone, Bill, that you could see as a potential future hallfamer from the other late night hosts in the industry? Well, I mean, Oliver, you know, Trump would have to do a lot of work to get all his Emmys. I mean, like the guy wins an Emmy every year. So he has a very high standard.

To me, it's not a show that is in the same form, really, at all, from these other shows. You know, there's no guests. So I just think that, that to me, limits what he can do. But when he does things, he will occasionally do things that are so spectacularly satirical that I'm in awe of that. I really do. I can be absolutely in awe of that. So I would again put him in the maybe category.

I have to consider him. Bill Moore is a very interesting case for me, okay? Because Bill Morris had this varied kind of career, but his persona, it shows, but his persona has stayed basically the same in each of the formats. And he can tell a really good joke. What I don't like about his show may not have that much to do with him, although I guess he could correct it.

There's no host that gets his, much claptor as that guy. He asks for it. Every single joke is applauded. And if they don't, he kind of like gives a look to the audience. I mean, that to me just stops it just stops a show. It just the flow isn't good. And I'm like,

that means none of the jokes are good. If every all of them are worth applauding, then none stands out. I just find that really a mistake. I think it's a mistake because I watched him recently and he had some excellent jokes, really good jokes. And then he told some mediocre to sub-mediocre

jokes and they got applause and I was like this this does not work for me I don't like that and of course he has been controversial and he he ran into some issues that turned me off a little but I wouldn't hold that against him and he came back at me occasionally for what I said and I wouldn't hold that against me either because I think you know it's interesting he did Trump this year he talked to Trump but he's he's gone back to criticizing Trump I think he's a legitimate candidate date for his long-term achievements. How about Mark? I want to hear Mark on this.

On Bill Maher, maybe. I mean, politically incorrect. He's had a longevity for sure. I mean, the HBO franchise. I mean, I would also put, really consider Dennis Miller because he, Dennis Miller live on HBO, first time, the Emmys, he's, I mean, the HBO really did change late night when he, when Dennis came in to do that. But Mar maybe, I don't know.

I mean, it's hard to say. But yeah, he's definitely been at it a long time and survived a long time. Let me throw out one other thing. We've talked only about hosts here, right, about other possibilities. Well, everybody we've just talked about is hosts. What about other figures that I didn't mention and we haven't mentioned? Can you think of somebody else? Someone in late night.

I mean, trying to think with Steve. Alan Parr. Well, I think you guys brought up earlier, Baby Doll, and I feel like he should be in a late-night hotel. What about Snyder? Tom Snyder? We didn't mention Snyder, did we? No, Snyder.

Snyder was absolutely suggested to me after I wrote to me. I would also venture to put Andy Cohen as a consideration. I think just culturally would, you know, it's a different format late-night show, but I do feel like he hits like a certain kind of show that we don't have with the others. Okay, something else I considered. guests.

Oh, wow. Guests. A whole fame for, you know, throwing in the top guests into the whole thing because I think, you know, people would put Rickles in there. Rickles, Sturt on Liderman had some really strong

appearances. Yeah. Marty Short, I think you would keep putting consideration. Oh, Marty Short was a fantastic guest. Oh, Groden. He did it in character. Charles Grotin would go on in character and the public, a lot of the public, were fooled and they thought he was just being mean to Johnny and they would get mail.

Johnny, why do you have Charles Groton on? And I thought that was endlessly entertaining. That's a guess I would consider more. I thought he was brilliant, brilliant guests. Johnny only had three people under contract to exclusively do his show. Miss Rivers, Joan Rivers was one. Groton was another. I forget the third one.

But yeah, he was beloved as a guest for sure. He just did an original thing. Nobody else did. He was always that guy. It was so good. It always made me laugh. But obviously, the other guys, you know, Steve Martin was always great and Banks was always great. I have an idea. What about Larry Sanders show? Would that Gary Shanley, would he do anything? I mean, he definitely took the format, but maybe he wouldn't be. That would be a fun thing to consider because it was a fake post, but yes, I mean, that was, yes, I would, I would consider. But you can see the world can be wide if you really open it up.

For sure. And that's why I think that, Bill, if you end up doing some sort of late night guest Hall of Fame article, I think we should come back here and we can break it all down because that seems like we can go on forever about this. I mean, Dick Ebersoll, you have to say saved Saturday Night Live. I mean, Eddie Murphy and Dick Ebersoll saved SNL. I mean, there's an argument for that. I mean, Ebersol does get criticized that period. I'll even venture to say that I'll do my own S&L Hall of Fame list and bring it to you guys for one show. Yes, because I didn't deal with that.

I didn't get into that, but I got to Lord. That would be hard. That would be extremely hard. Yeah. So it seems like there's a lot more to mind here. So we'll definitely hit on the subject again. But overall, this was a really fun talk with the two of you. I'm so happy we got back together to talk about everything that's happening in late night this January.

Mark. I just was going to say, Chelsea. Handler is another person. I think we should definitely consider. There's more people. I know that we're going to think about after. We're going to shut this down and we're going to keep coming up with more ideas. So we'll get back in. But yeah, but this has been fun. I'm sure we'll do more of this soon. Yeah, Mark, we're going to be back with Inside Late Nights in just a few weeks. So excited. We got some great guests coming up. Do you want to announce to the audience, anyone we have? Yeah, Amber Ruffin. I'm really excited. I mean, she had her own show. She did great at Seth.

Have I got news for you. She's tremendous. I got to talk to her other co-stars. On last season, or over the year, Roy Wood Jr., Michael Ian Black, she's absolutely tremendous. We have a bunch more of really exciting people we'll be talking to. So that'll be back on this feed, the Late Nighter Podcast Network feed. And Bill, anything you're working on right now that you want to let the listeners know about. Well, I'm basically trying to see whether or not we can get to the whole issue of what happens with CBS after Colbert. you know Mr. Byron Allen he might I guess I guess there's a possibility it will just be Byron Allen but as as Colbert exits and you see all the stuff all the attention all that you

wonder a network is really going to go without an original late-night show are they really going to do that I mean I think that's a real question to be asked yeah that's fascinating we'll find out some more information hopefully in the next few months so I want to thank Mark Malkoff and Bill Carter for joining us today on this Late Nider roundtable for January 2026. We want to invite you to go over to late-nighter.com to see all of the latest news in late-night television and subscribe to our feed on. We have our YouTube channel for Late Nider and then our Apple podcast, Spotify or wherever you are on the podcast, the Late Nider podcast network. So on behalf of everyone here at Late Nider, my name is John Schneider and we will see you next time. Have a good one.