Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Andy Breckman

Episode Date: July 30, 2024

Andy Breckman joins Mark to discuss writing for Saturday Night Live including for Eddie Murphy, Chris Farley, & Norm Macdonald, writing for Late Night with David Letterman, & his feud with Don McLean.

Hi, I am Mark Malkoff and welcome to Inside Late Night presented by latenighter.com. Andy Breckman joins me today to discuss writing for Saturday Night Live for Eddie Murphy, Chris Farley, and Norm MacDonald, writing for David Letterman and his feud with a famous singer. Now it's time to go inside late night. Andy Breckman, thanks for talking with us. my pleasure it's a it's a dream come true for both of us it really is yes so when you drop out freshman year of boston university i know your mom is really upset and then just a couple years later she's watching the macy's thanksgiving parade in 1979 and ed mcmann introduces you how does this all happen and what was your mom's thoughts with all of this that's when it all

peaked. What was my mom's stuff? I can't tell you that, but I will tell you this. You know, you're referring to it. The first job I had, I was I was writing for a kid show, 19. It was 79. 79. You probably know better than me. And it's called Hot Hero Sandwiches on NBC and in the mid-afternoon on Saturdays. It was there. It was a Saturday night live type of sketch show for tweens, for young adults. Anyway, I was a performer on the show. I was a performer on the show and they asked me to promote the show by appearing in the Macy's Day parade. And I remember the night before telling my wife, my then-wife, Mary, I remember telling it very seriously, this is going to change everything. You know, after tomorrow, I won't be able to walk down

the street, you know. I mean, this is it. I mean, this is a whole new kind of life. Are we ready for this? I remember telling Mary that. And of course, of course it changed nothing. I mean, you're 24 years old. You're in the Thanksgiving parade. Ed McMahon introduces you. And then this TV show,

it was interesting because you played roles in it. You played the puberty fairy. Wait, wait, wait. What kind of research have you done? This is, I was going to say it's scary, but it's not really scary. It's more sad than it. I don't know it's sad I just want to give you a big hug I've had words I've had a word

you should be playing frisbee outside with your beautiful wife yes maybe after I was going to mention hot hero sandwich you have people like richard prior coming on you have Henry Fonda Barbara Walters people you wouldn't think about maybe with kids TV like Robert Blake are you working with for example Richard Pryor when he's coming in Well, I didn't, I did, well, I eventually worked with Richard Pryor, but the show was, it was NBC had to check off, they had to do some public service, X number of hours a week, public service. So the show had that element to it, and it had a psychiatrist, psychologist, I'm sorry, interviewing famous actors about their childhoods. That was the format. And then there were sketches, and then there were songs.

supplied some of the songs. I'm actually very proud of the show, and it was a great first job. You know, I went into that show as a songwriter. That's how I got the gig. They saw me performing in New York, but I left the show with writing credentials. You know, I wrangled my way onto the writing staff there. So I became a sketchwriter on that show. So it was an important show for me. and I somebody there's a guy online now that's that cataloging the show and and he's assembled footage and clips of the show called Hot Hero Sandwich and it's really fun for me to go back and look at those so you win an Emmy for this kid's show not well there's a it's a daytime Emmy which they give out as door prizes you know they don't they sort of hand them out of the door

with the gift bags. But it meant a lot to me. It impressed my in-laws. Does that count? It certainly does. So you win this daytime Emmy. And then you actually sign with Columbia Records in January of 1981. And you have a record deal with Columbia.

You went on a TV show that I used to watch a Nickelodeon all the time called Live Wire. It was afternoons with Fred Newman. And you were on with the Ramones. That was your episode. Well, you're exactly right. I mean, except for signing with Columbia, you're pretty accurate. I did not. Is that not true? The Columbia thing? Is there nothing true about that? It said in the newspaper. No, I'm sure, Mark, I'm sure I'd remember. I mean, it's a huge thing that's not with Columbia. And I'm sure I would have made notes about it. And I'd probably have an album, wouldn't I, by now, if I had signed with Columbia 50 years ago. Oh, you know what? Oh, you know what? Oh, I'm sorry. It's set in the newspaper.

No, no, no. Here's what. Boy, this is very funny. Now, this will show that you're overzealous with your research. This is actually an early instance of fake news. At some point early on, oh, my manager at the time asked me to write a biography. That's what it was. And so I wrote a brief biography marking all the little events that happened in my life up until that point.

And then, unlike most biographies, I continued on into the future. I didn't just stop at 1982 whenever I was writing it. I continued on and projected ahead. So I had a fake bio on, maybe it ended up online. I did not sign with Columbia. There was a little record company called Gadfly, G-A-D-F-L-Y, that released a couple of albums of mine. Okay, so the Columbia thing was... No, I'm almost positive, I'd remember.

I'll check when I get home. Okay. Because I have a bunch of records on the shelf, and I'll look to see if any of them are mine. But I don't think they are mine. So you win the daytime Emmy. Wait, wait, who recorded, who wrote and recorded sounds of silence? Was that me? I think it was.

Oh, no, no, no, no. That was Paul Simon. No, no, that wasn't me. I did not record with Columbia. Not yet, but I will point this out. Not yet. I will point this out, though, people do cover your songs. There's people all over YouTube that have recorded your songs. That's true.

I had, oh, God, you know. You've got to get outside, fell. People do cover. Yeah, I had a couple of songs, one in particular, that some people that seem to stick. And people covered, I get a check from BMI. Do you want to know how much I get every year? Are you curious? No, but tell me anyway.

I'm being polite. Okay. You're not curious, but tell me. That's, there's an interviewer for you. I'm going to confess, I'm not curious, but I'm going to ask you to tell. I get, I get per quarter about 20, I get 30, 30, 30, 30, I get $150 a year from my songwriting. Most of that is from stuff that I wrote that ended up on TV at SNL or various shows. Residules are good.

residuals are good residuals are fine i get to take i get to take my wife to the diner yes olive garden andy bragman at the olive garden yeah how's this going by the way so far no it's going great i've been wanting to talk to you forever you say on your favorite guest you've ever had would you say that sure sure after robert smigel after david cross after margaret show that means a lot to me thank you so how is it possible that you you're going on television you had just written for this tv show that you start working at a video store in 1981. I started wearing for a video store. That's right.

It was called Video to Go on 8th Street. It was one of the first video stores in New York, probably in the country. It was such a new technology that we had a customer come in, rent a couple of videotapes, and then take them leave the store with them, and then call 20 minutes later and say, okay, I have the tapes. I'm in my apartment. Where in the TV do I stick the tapes? She didn't know she needed a machine. So I

did Hot Hero sandwich which was my first big credit, first credit, network credit. And then I wrote then I was out of work. I thought that was well, that was fun. That was if I'm a flash in the pan. My career's over. wrote, I'm sorry, along the way I got an agent. I signed with the CAA. I'm sorry, I signed with ICN years ago. And I wrote five sketches for Saturday Night Live, a packet, they call it. You've

heard that phrase. And I submitted it. It was the year, you're as an L guy. It was the year after, it was a Gene Dominion year after Lorne led. 1980. 1980, right. Do you know if your packet was actually read because that doesn't necessarily mean if you submit it that it's going to...

I know it was read because I got a very sweet, well, they passed on me, they didn't hire me, but I got a very sweet letter from Anne Beetz, who was one of the original writers and I think she stayed on with Gene Dominion. I wish I still had a copy of that. Maybe I

do some of it. But it was very encouraging. But it was not a job offer. It was less than a job offer, but more than being ghosted. And I ended up working. So I took a day job. I was at the video store. And unbeknownst to me, my agent at the time sent that same packet, those same five sketches, to Merrill Marco and David Letterman, who were at the time, you probably know this,

maybe better than me. She, they were in, Letterman was in limbo. He was being held, he was being sort of on hold at NBC. They were trying to figure out what to do with him. And they were paying him, they were paying him just to stand by,

you know, while they put a late night show together. And they were putting a writing staff together. And I had no idea that there was a show, a late night with Letterman show being planned, or in production, or in pre-production. I had no idea, it was all happening. I had no idea that my stuff was being submitted to them.

and I got a call. It's kind of the dream. Everybody's dream, Hollywood story. It might be your dream, too, young Mark. I got a call. I'm at work. I'm behind the counter. How about this for a phone call, kids?

All you need is one good phone call per lifetime, really. And you've got a career. And the phone rings, and it's my girlfriend, soon-to-be wife, and she says, hey, David Letterman's looking for you. they read Merrill Margo had read the packet they were in New York for one day they were at the Plaza Hotel for one day one day only looking meeting writers and it was already mid afternoon and they said if I could get up to the Plaza Hotel you know within the next hour they'd love to meet me it happened that quickly it was that it was I had no preparation

at all it really was like Eddie we can you man the counter I have to go it really was like that I left right from work to ran to the subway and went up to the plaza hotel to meet Merro Marco and David Letterman. The version I heard and tell me if this is right, this is wrong. It was a gazillion years ago is that Letterman was only going to be there with Merrill the next day and that you stayed up all night to write a letterman packet and you needed your wife to wake up and type it. It was 4 a.m. And you changed the clocks in your apartment and say 630, so she wouldn't be mad at you.

No, so she would get up and type it for them. Yes. Yes. I needed my wife to type it. No, that's exactly right. I met Merrimarco and I met the man. I met Letterman and they told me about the show that they hoped to do. You know, Merrill really had it worked out in her head because it was basically the morning show, you know, with tweaks and, you know, so they basically had done it. The morning show was almost a dry run for this. But they knew what they wanted.

it was out a sketch show so my packet didn't really wasn't enough to get me the gig and you're exactly right I knew they were leaving the next day and I went home and pulled in all nighter and got a packet to them by dawn the next day

I went up back to the Plaza Hotel and gave my packet to the doorman and gave it to when you did meet them because they had to meet you briefly did you hesitate at all when you took the change there's all that change on the table and you put it in your pocket without saying anything? Oh, that is true. That is all that's exactly.

Where the hell are you getting all this from? I must have. Because that could have gone either way, but Dave found it very funny. No, seriously, I do have to ask you, have you bugged my living room or something? This is just spooky. I cannot confirm or deny anything, Andy Brickman. It's true that when I walked in a day where they were in the suite at the Plaza Hotel, and I do have this memory.

My memory's not good, but I do have this memory of letter, on the couch and there was a coffee table in front of them there was spare change on the coffee table and the first thing i said was hey can i have this and i swept up the change of the coffee table and i put it in the put it in my pocket and i never mentioned it again and he never mentioned it again i don't know if that was a point against me or a point for me but did i did i endear myself to the man but i don't know and i don't know where i got the chutzma to do it but uh that is true But you get the gig, and for the first 13 weeks, the cycle, you don't get anything on.

Were there any other writers that did not get anything on, or were you the only writer? It's a good question. That's right. It was a 13-week cycle, which I think in some cases is still the case, and it's still the norm for some late-night staff writing. You're on 13-week cycles. They can cut you lose after every 13 weeks, you're up for renewal, which keeps you on your toes, boys and girls. And was there anybody else? That's right.

I went 13 weeks, throwing shit against the wall and nothing was sticking. I was trying to figure out his voice, you know, trying to get Letterman's voice in my head. Some people were having better luck. I'm sorry, more success than me, not luck, of the court. And there were other writers who were struggling. I think some writers were let go that first cycle, if I recall, I don't, I'm glad I don't recall their names. I don't want to embarrass anyone.

But Merrill Marco, my boss, the head writer, called a few days before the 13-week cycle was up and reassured me that I was doing okay. And the first thing I got on the air, the first thing I got in the air was a bumper. They used to have bumpers as they went to commercials. I don't know if you'd remember this, where they had little messages written out,

and the first thing I got on was a bumper as it went to commercial. said to Mary, I'm sorry. It was to my wife. It was an apology. I asked them, I asked them to apologize over the air that night. So she saw it that night. I thought it was so interesting that you struggled in the beginning, but then Merrill leaves his head writer, and they offer it to you, and you're the head writer for like less than 24 hours, is it? Yeah, I was head writer for three and a half hours before downy came in yeah well they but uh yeah that was actually just before they brought downy in i was a i was a trial bloom they ran me up the flagpole you just didn't want the

gig a lot of people well i well there was some resistance from the other writers you know which i understandably i would have probably felt the same and i immediately as soon as there was any resistance at all i withdrew my name from uh from consideration i just didn't you know who the hell would want the job if everybody wasn't happy to see you every, you know, in the morning. Yeah, it was a dream job and I didn't want to, I didn't want to jeopardize it at all. I was so happy being just, you know, and just among the, in the trenches, whatever, the rest of the guys. That's what I was going to say. It seems like a dream job. I mean, Dave lets you perform on the show. You do your puke song because somebody canceled. So you get to do, that's February of 83. You get to be hanging out

with Jerry Garcia. You're a musician. It seems like the dream job. Of course, it's, oh my God, it is a dream job. It's such a dream job that Merrill, who was later in girlfriend and also the head writer, when she couldn't be head writer anymore, when it was just too much for her to wear both that. She became, she demoted herself and became just another writer. You know, she became a writer on the writing stand, and Jim Downey came in his head writer. But it was such a dream job that Merrill Marco could not walk away, you know. nobody could walk away for those first two years.

Why would you leave? If you're having such a good time, was SNL just always the dream? Well, SNL has a special place in the zeitgeist, in the culture. It's for a lot of writers, even now, I'm sure a lot of your audience listening, it's the goal, you know,

it's the dream gig. Why did I leave? After two years, most of the right, it was, the writing's head was me, Jerry Mulligan and five lads from Harvard that knew each other and some of them had worked with Lauren before. And they all, including Jim Downey, at the two-year mark, they all left to go follow Lauren to do his new show, which I'm sure you remember was a primetime sketch show that

everyone had high hopes for. So all the cool kids were going with Lorne. And I, meanwhile, I was getting offers from SNL, which was right upstairs. It was in the same building. And so I decided, I guess I thought, and they were offering me a substantial raise. And I guess I thought, well, everyone else is leaving. I guess that's what you do. You work two years at a gig, and then you take another gig. It just seemed like everyone else, all my friends were leaving, and it was time to go. and I was not invited to the new show, but I did get this invitation from SNL. And so I went upstairs.

Could you sense that he was a little hurt that all of you? Oh, sure. Oh, my gosh. Well, who wouldn't be stung by it? Everybody, you know, I mean, for a lot of people, it was our first break, our first gig, and you expect some kind of loyalty, and I feel, in hindsight, feel horrible.

I think he had very strong feeling about Jim Downey leaving, who Jim had been there about a year, one year. no it was uh in hindsight it was probably a mistake and not inconsiderate but i was uh i was a kid and and they were dangling you know real money in front of me late night at the time just to remind you this was what year was it marked when when all this was out there the new show 84 premiered february 1st of 82 82 late night with letterman at the time was still a sort of of a well, sort of a well-kept secret. You know, college kids were watching in their dorms.

You know, the numbers were very small. And by the way, that time slot was no man's land, you know, at the time. It was the middle of the night on weekdays. So going to Estenelle felt like I was really moving into, you know, into prime time. I was moving up a tier. As soon as we left, the Letterman show exploded and he was on the cover of Rolling Stone and all over and invited to host various shows. And his profile was raised and the show exploded in 83, 84 as soon as we left.

Maybe there's a cause and effect there. As soon as Andy Brackman left, it seemed to just take off. But at the time, it was, it felt like I was getting promoted. I mean, you go over to Saturday Night Live, season premiere, Brandon Tartakov is hosting in October of 83. Yeah, that's right. That's right, pal. Yeah. In your first sketch that you get on, and this really makes me laugh, and only you would do this. You actually went on the show as yourself. There was a sketch called Larry's

Corner. It's with Gary Kroger and Brad Holland. Yeah, you're right. It was my first show, my first sketch on SNL. Can you describe it for people? Well, it was a guy that when he laughed, milk came out of it. You know, if he was drinking a liquid, when he was drinking milk, milk would come out of his nose when he laughed. And the joke was that in the sketch live on the air, I thought it would be funny to have gallons of milk come out of the character's nose, just gallons, if they could pump it.

I thought that would be really fun to see live on the air. And I wrote the sketch, and it involved a fake nose and prosthetics. It involved running a tube over somebody's head and having a fake, a lot of prosthetics. in order to pump all the gallons of milk live onto the stage, you know, on SNL, because it would take hours and hours to get into that makeup, literally hours, no cast member could do it, you know, because they had, obviously, they had other sketches to do.

And so it was, I don't know how it was decided. I don't even remember volunteering for it, but it was decided that I would put on that prosthetic and that, you know, all the makeup, and I would play the guy who, the guy who was just spewing milk out of his nostrils. Into a cup, into a cup I wanted to mention. I believe it well, it was into a cup, and then it was into somebody's mouth and all over the floor, and it was really, you know, I've been writing comedy now for 93, this is my 93rd year, writing comedy, and it probably was the biggest live laugh I ever was responsible.

responsible for. I'm not proud. It's not the lamp I'm proud of it's though. But it was it was really something to see I'm sure in the audience you know to see live happening. You know, and I do have a tape of that and I could show my you're so interesting. None of my kids are interested in seeing this stuff. None of them. I shouldn't invite you and your wife over more. We'd love to with a double date. Yeah, no, you're invited over. I can't and I can't get my kids to watch any of this. But I do have it I do have tapes of most of that stuff. No, I love that.

What was the difference because you and Downey were the only two, I believe that worked under both Ebersol and Lorne Michaels. What was the biggest difference producing wise

between the two? Well, Dick Ebersoll was not a comedy guy, not a former writer like Lorne. And he didn't trust his comedic instincts the way Lorne

deservedly trust his commuting instinct. And for me, the biggest difference was, you know, Ebersol would defer to certain staff members completely. He didn't, he didn't, he didn't insist on

on having his way if there was any resistance at all. Although the one exception might be Larry David, who tells very funny stories about clashing with Dick Ebersol. But, you know, Dick Eversal famously brought in

Billy Crystal and Christopher Gist and Marty Short and deferred to them completely. Those guys pretty much got what they wanted to get on the air, on the air. That was an incredible year. I mean, it still holds up and you got to write some really funny, memorable films that people still talk about. That's right. My second year, that's right. My second year I was directing and making short films.

I guess now it's pretty common to see on SNL. But at the time, it was an unusual situation. It was just a way when I was renegotiating my second year. It was a way for my agent to get me more money, to be honest with you. Because all the writers were favored nations. All the writers were getting paid the same. And I was asking for more money. So you get to direct and you're getting paid more.

Probably the most famous one. I mean, you directed a bunch that are well known. But Eddie Murphy comes back to host in 84. This is December. and you direct White Like Me, Eddie Murphy is this huge movie star. I remember meeting a paparazzi person who told me that Eddie was so big at the time that paparazzi were actually following him around. They realized that this was Eddie Murphy in disguise.

Yeah, yeah, he was the biggest movie store in the country at the time. He had a couple of huge hits already and came back to host. I had written White Like Me about an African, African-American guy going around as an experiment going around in white face. It was, of course, a parody of black like me. But I had written it for Jesse Jackson, who hosted a few months earlier. You may know the date better than me. And Jesse actually, I call him Jesse.

What do you call him? Reverend Jackson. Reverend Jackson, yeah. The Reverend actually considered the sketch and Donald with his entourage. and they actually debated whether or not he was a viable presidential candidate at the time and they actually debated whether or not he should go out in whiteface but they passed on it and but and I kept the sketch in my drawer and took it out when Eddie Murphy came around and I did direct that piece yeah is that one of those things where at the host you meet the host on

Mondays that you just pitch right then and there or is it Tuesday during the writing do you you go up to Eddie Murphy and say, I have this idea for you, or how does that work? It's a, well, it's a good, I kind of knew him because I was there with Ebersol, those two years, and he was there for, was he there for both years? He might have been there for a year. And then there was one year, that very strange hybrid year where he was there live for half the shows. Have you heard this story? About how they had to pre-tape some of the sketches?

Yeah, they pre-taped half of his sketches before the season. and then he was there live for half the season. That's how big he was he could negotiate that deal. Yeah, like the attic sketch that you wrote. You wrote the Dutch couple elderly. Yeah, that's true. I wrote the attic sketch, and that was pre-taped. That probably, that technically was the first SNL.

Tell the premise. Tell the premise. It is on YouTube. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just watched it. I'm just talking to somebody about it. Well, the premise is it was a couple in Amsterdam, an old couple in Amsterdam sitting around reminiscing about World War II. World War II had been over.

It was over, of course, 40 years ago. And the husband says to the wife, I never asked you. And it turned out they had hidden a family of Jews in the attic during the war. And the husband says to the wife, this is 1980, 40 years later. Hey, what, you know, I never asked you. What was their reaction when you went upstairs and told them the war was over and they could go home?

And then the wife says, oh, wait, hold, I'm sorry. I thought you told them the war was over. And they realized that the family of Jews is still upstairs at the attic. Yeah, Eddie Murphy is up there and piss. and Mary gross. Oh, that's right. It's one of the classic Anne Frank sketch. The Anne Frank is just this font of comedy, of course. Yes. In 1984, what was the thought process and having the host do Weekend Update? You had Jesse Jackson do update. You had Bob Euker, George Carlin, Ed Asner. Wow. I don't know. I don't know. Who was doing

update normally and who did they who did they sub for they didn't have anyone they had no in the beginning they had the host do update and then they had um billy crystal as fernando do update with julia louis wow no this is i had no idea and then michael mckeen host and they have edwin newman do update and then finally chris guest who does the rest of the season edwin newman makes sense of course he was a you know a veteran newcaster and chris guest makes sense he kind of has that Sana, you can see... I guess they just wanted to play around with a format. I guess they did.

I mean, that was Dick Eversall, maybe an example of him, not being sure, not having the confidence of his own convictions, you know? You know, he just couldn't commit to a host. I don't know. I didn't remember that. Between you and me and your 50,000 listeners, I was married with kids then, and I used to sneak out as soon as my sketch was. over. And so I didn't go to the after parties. I'm not a drinker. I'm not a partyer. I would often

miss the second half of the show between you and me. I had this one. I actually sometimes I had a show sometimes at the end of the show and I would leave even before that. I would sneak out. I was just so anxious to get home. It's a long week. The hours, yes. I've only heard of one other writer that I know that would sneak out to do stand-up. He would leave after update. He wasn't getting stuff on anyway. Oh, okay. Well, I mean, it's design it's not i mean the job is not designed for for a guy with a young family that's for sure yeah and i had i had two young kids and but there was one moment i'll never forget it i uh i was driving home and i stopped at the uh toll plaza used to have a toll plaza you know as you left

the tunnel and the guy in the toll booth was uh was doing his job and he was watching s and l he had s nl on in the toll booth i could see my sketch on on his little tv i got a glimpse as i I drew home for a second. That was really a moment to remember. Yeah, that must have been surreal. When did Dale Butterworth happen? Was that during Letterman or SNL? Because the reason that I know that you wrote a lot of the sketches you did is because

you always use a character named Dale Butterworth, or are you referenced? My fans, of course, have come to expect that. That's a trademark. I'm not going to disappoint those people. Dale Butterworth was a kid who lived in my neighborhood from my childhood and it did become my go-to

name during Letterman and then into Saturday Night Live and he actually I think he appears in a few movie scripts as well but every writer I know has a go-to default name

going forward it might be fun for you to ask writers if they have Yeah I would love to If they have a name that they reuse and who those kids were. Dale Butterworth, I always kind of have expected him to reach out to me. Oh, people from the old neighborhood did reach out to me and did acknowledge that they, you know, clocked me using Dale's name.

But I don't think Dale himself ever did. In October of 1984, you did the bulge with Jim Belushi. I still was very surprised back then. I got past the censors. Did you think that it was going to actually be able to be able to be? televised. God, I haven't thought that's one that I, that's one sketch that I do not have a video copy.

I haven't thought of that in a while. I couldn't find it online. It's probably a music rights issue, but it was, I remember seeing, I've seen it before, and yeah, it's one of those things where I can't believe they got away with it. I can't even know. You mentioned it. Yeah. He stuffs his pants with

tissues. Yeah, Jim Volusci. He's in a bar. He's in a bar. He's in a bar. He's flirting with some women. He goes to the bathroom, goes to the men's room. And he stuffs some, to make his, to make his pants bulge a little bit, he stuffed some. But it's a ridiculous amount. I mean, it's like. Well, I mean, the joke is that he stuffs a little tissue in his pants and so his pants

bulge a little bit, which is something, I swear to you, I've never done in my life. I don't even know where I got that, but. Right what you know, Andy. Right what you know, yeah, exactly. Something I should have done, but I didn't do. And then the joke is, he puts a little tissue, why not a little more? And as long as I'm here, why not a little more? I'll put even more.

This will impress the ladies. And he starts going through reams and reams and rolls and rolls of toilet paper. And then he emerges from the men's room with this enormous two-foot long, bulging thing in this band. It's so cartoonish that I guess that's... Yeah, just knocking glass is over and knocking things over. And, of course, my favorite part, if I remember this correctly, is the way. women just swim. And it's so unattractive how he appears. And that's what's really, really funny. I did love the beat where the women were not turned off. They were turned off. Yeah, that's something that

God help me. God forgive me for that one. When I'm at the pearly gates, that'll be on the list of things I'm asking. Can you pass on that? April of 1985, Howard Kossel comes in, and you do a short with him, you do a film with him. And I remember this from, you know, when I was a kid, it was the, he covers this Olympic event. And what was it? It was the run, throw, and catch like a girl Olympics. And you had Martin short. It was male athletes, male athletes in the stadium with judges, you know, like an Olympic event. And they were throwing like spasically and throwing like cartoonishly like a girl might. Lerick David is in it. Larry David didn't. Oh, no. I mean, Marty Short came in. I mean, we had, I don't, Billy Crystal. You know, we, we had the whole cast come in to throw like a girl. And then the ladies were, they were a feminist. They were an airplane bomb in. I guess that was our big, our big. Oh, and of course, Howard Kosell was covering it like it was a sports. Oh, yeah. I mean, you couldn't do it now that whole. I could try to do it now. I mean, you can either make the argument now that it's, it's funnier now than ever because it's so damn.

unwoke. I don't, I would try to do it now, but I don't know if it would get, I don't know if it would get any traction now. But it did end with a couple of the ladies up in a, in a plane overhead dropping a big bomb. And then it cuts to like war footage, like stock footage. Yeah, it cuts to a huge explosion. I should mention, if I remember correctly, I wrote that with Jim Downey. So I'm going to give him half the blame. I'll take the half the credit. He can have have to blame. Who are some of your favorite host that came in? When you were there I mean, everybody came in. Jerry

Lewis, Howard, Coasell, and well, what happens is at SNL, and I bet it's still a phenomenon. When there's a host that you're excited about, meeting, and you want to spend the week with them, which means you

want to get a sketch, at least into dress rehearsal, at least into the rundown. So you just crank it up. You know, when When Michael Palin from Monty Python came in, he was on my list, and I wanted to hang with him in my fantasy. We would become good friends and do movies together, you know.

And so I, you know, I worked hard. I probably submitted more stuff than I normally would have and had more stuff and read through. And I worked hard to a score on those weeks. So that was one. And then, of course, Ringo Star, he was in the fabulous, he was one of the fabulous singing Beatles.

the four singing Beatles. But then you have these weird house like George McGovern. Yeah. And you wrote a sketch called Bookbeat. He was an archaeologist McGovern and Brad Hall, I think, was in it. Dale Butterworth, that was another Dale. That I don't remember. I remember being on the street with McGovern, and it was the Midtown Open.

And it was him and Belushi, and they were just golfing their way through Manhattan, as if it was a golf court. just into just hitting balls into windows and into crowds and he was a very good sport uh was he campaigning at the time it was just after the campaign i don't remember if he ever was elected president i don't have the list in front of me i didn't know there'd be a quiz today mark there will be yes yeah but uh he was uh he was the democratic candidate for president uh believe it or not kid and uh it must have been after the the election, right? Oh, I'm sure, yes. It couldn't have been during, it wasn't like Jesse Jackson where he was during the election. I urge you to go back and look, look at your Mr. Monopoly

sketch with Lovitz because I know that you remember Damon Wayne's taking focus away, but I just watched it on YouTube and it's really, really funny. And the Wayne's thing, I didn't feel he distracted at all. You might be seeing the dress rehearsal. It might have been. They did this. Oh, no, they ran the dress rehearsal for the West Coast and then, I'm sure, in rerun. They would do that for certain yet they would do that oh no and they were flubbed and i was i actually was party to some some huge flubs and prop malfunctions and uh and they used to have three hours to re-edit the show for for la and then that became the what they put in syndication uh you may not have seen the sketch that got them fun so you were there under the bleachers with lorne as it's going

Damon Wayne makes the choice on air to play the character flamboyant, gay, which is not, you know, that has nothing to do with the sketch that you wrote. No, it derailed the sketch. He was just, he just had a sort of supporting part in the role in the sketch that I, I should, I should explain, I'm sorry, just to backtrack just ever so slightly, it was, this 1885, 1986? It was it was the 85, 85 season, yeah, that Anthony might. Michael Hall. That's right. I was coming in as a guest writer. I was coming in just to do a couple of shows. And so I didn't, as a guest writer, you're blissfully unaware of the inner cast politics and the tensions on the staff. And I had no idea that he was, he was not a happy camper. No idea. I didn't know him at all. I, you know, except to say hello. And apparently he was unhappy. And I think something was cut that night. during dress rehearsal he might tell the story himself i don't know i never heard he told it in the book but under the bleachers lorton turns to you during the sketch and he said what does he say to you that's right i was watching it with lorne he watches the show from under

the bleachers that's right at least he did at that time on a monitor and during the sketch he turned to me and he looked just shocked and he looked and he looked upset and and he said i have to fire you know and meaning he was given no choice you can't let that slide you know and that's just a moment I won't forget and I was at the time I was pissed off I came in as a guest writer and my sketch was sabotage you know light on the air I have to say the following year when they everybody comes back it's the you know bouncing back with Phil Hartman's first show and Jan Hooks and Carvey The 86 premiere, you got, I guess it was Dana Carvey and Phil Hartman and Jan Hook's first sketch ever that got on. It was that the game show psychic?

Yeah, I didn't appreciate it. Yeah, that it was everyone's first. That was really, really funny. That's on YouTube as well. It was a good. Yeah, that's a psychic that's Dana Carvey as someone that could tell the future. And he was on a game show answering questions before they were even asked. And Jan Hook's was very funny. She was a frustrated contestant. Yeah, oh, it was so good. And then Phil Hartman, game show, host. Oh, my gosh.

And then Phil Harmon, what a prince. He came in the next day, or I'm sorry, Monday, and he gave me a little gift, a little thank you gift. He was very grateful to that. His first sketch. His first sketch. And, you know, he went on to, to quote, host maybe 100 game shows, you know. At least.

And show sketches and did similar. characters on The Simpsons, of course, for years too. After you did Game Show Psychic, this is Sigourney Weber's hosting this premiere. And this is before update or music. The sketch following. Oh, God, you've seen the show. Yeah, go ahead. The sketch after is your amazing Alexander sketch with John Lovitz, where, you know,

it was better than cats. Oh, that's right. Oh, because that's so funny. Okay, I didn't. You get two sketches on the premiere. All I'm saying is you're doing extremely. well. I guess I was in a groove. That's right. Amazing Alexander Wood. Did I direct that? I don't think I did. That was John Lovus played a hypnotist. He was doing a show on Broadway. And everybody, and it was a commercial for the show. And everybody leaving the theater was clearly in a trance and they were all raving about the show. It was better than cats. He had clearly been hypnotized to rave about the show. That's right. That's another one I'd love to see, actually. I don't have.

Oh, it's so funny. Was Lawrence O'Donnell an actor back then? He's an extra in it. Lawrence O'Donnell was a friend of the, well, Jim Downey's friend, and that's still, I think, best friend, and would hang out on the floor. What was he doing that? He was, oh, he might have been working in the Senate, or he might have been working for Senator Moynihan or was just between gigs. But anyway, he would hang out on the, with the writers. and he was in a couple of sketches of mine.

I don't know if he was in any of gyms or other sketches, but then I ended up using a recurring role on the Monk when I had my series go. He played a judge that would occasionally interact with Adrian Monk. So I, yeah, that guy, you're right, Mark. I know what you're saying. You're saying that guy owes me big time, is what you're saying. he does i bet he's getting residuals for a hundred and thirty five well he's probably getting a few

bucks i'm sure i'm sure he's uh taking his kids out to ice cream with with my money you might have done more game shows than almost anybody mean that that sketch that you wrote wedgy fever in 1987 for oh my god wait now have you have you seen these sketches or do you just heard of it i know wedgy fever no it's it's it's so funny and they have a crane that gets pulls Lovitz. Yeah, that's right. I used to torture Lovitz every chance I could. That's so funny.

Wedgy fever. Yeah, it was a crane hooked up to his underpants. And every wrong answer, they would crank the crane higher, giving him a wedgie. It was a game show called Wedgie fever. And then you realize, as the show goes on, that he's getting the answers wrong on purpose. He just loves the sensation. Lovitz was so funny. You can't go wrong with John Lovett.

I'm still in time to them, and we're actually working on something currently. Jack Handy said, quote, my friend Andy, used to have the same slot as me, 15 minutes to 1 o'clock. He wrote the same kind of stuff. And he said that you both wrote a piece about a guy whose fear was falling through a trap door. So he always wore a cage that would prevent him. from falling into the trap door and a... He wore what amounted to a petticoat, a giant. That's right.

Well, he's being generous. I'm sure that was 90% Jack Handy. Did it get in? It might have gotten in grass. It might have gotten in. All I remember is Jack, oh, he's working with Jack. It was a sheer, you know, an honor and a delight. But I remember I got to draw the pictures on the sketch.

I used to draw pictures when we, that when we submitted, when I submitted sketches, almost all my sketches had me illustrating the sketch. And I got to draw a diagram of this contraption. This guy would wear the guy who just had this, had this phobia. And Handy said, of course, he does fall through a trap door. Of course he does in this sketch. I would say in the top five Chris Farley sketches, Japanese game show easily in terms of his performance. Some people say Mike Myers, that one of the best things he ever did. So Alec Baldwin is hosting. This is December of 94, and you have the Beastie Boys musical guest. You're a guest writer. You go in, do you have the sketch already

planned out? Are you writing it Tuesday night? It's a good question. The guest writer, as a guest writer, you have this advantage. You have a few advantages, actually. There's no grudges against you. Nobody is elbowing your stuff out of the way. Nobody's mad at you from something you did last week. You come in, you're the, you know, your fresh face. That's one advantage. But the biggest advantage is I had months and months and months to think

about sketches. And so I could come in with what was in effect, three or four greatest hits. You know, if you put out an album, if you put out a record album every three years and it's only four songs, they're going to be good song. So there's no filler. I came in with three or four sketches.

And the show you mentioned, the Alec Baldwin show, is a show I'm very proud of. I had three sketches on that show. Three sketches, all credit. And I remember being very proud and I don't,

I'm trying to be a modest guy, but there might be a record that might still stand. I mean, three sketches with sole credit on them, you know, not co-written is something I was proud of at the time.

I can tell you what they were. There was, of course, a Japanese game show. They did the police officers that threw up. That was Fred Wolf, I would guess.

No, no, it wasn't that. Oh, there might have been something, a Christmas show where the parents, I'm sorry, Christmas sketch where the kids never got any gifts and the parents were baffled, as baffled as the kids, and the parents, because the parents, like the kids, assumed Santa Claus would come every Christmas. And they just were, all of them, the parents and the kids couldn't figure it out. But in terms of Farley's performance in Mike Myers, Mike Myers, Mike Myers, actually learned the Japanese.

He learned... Yes, when I wrote the sketch, it was just gibberish Japanese, because that's what I thought, my God, you're submitting a sketch on Wednesday for read-through. No one's going to learn Japanese by Saturday, by Saturday 1130 p.m. So I just wrote gibberish, assuming that's what, if the sketch is on, that's what we'd be doing. And I think what appealed to Mike Myers, and this says a lot about Mike Myers, to his credit. I think what appealed to him was an opportunity to really commit to this and learn Japanese in three days.

And he did. He got a tutor in and he worked on the sketch. And that was real Japanese. They had to translate my sketch into Japanese, something out of course I couldn't do. It was one of those perfect sketches. I mean, it all came through. If we did it, I mean, if it was done now, there were probably apps that would have translated for him. But they had to do it manually line by line.

He had to learn it. He learned it phonetically, but then he, but when he did, when he, when he performed it, it was more than just phonetically. He was really delivering the lines as, as a host would. I didn't know that until years later. That is so Mike Myers, oh, hardcore. Oh, my God. No, that is, that is, that is commitment and maybe it's obsessive commitment, you know.

Lots of respect. Oh, yeah, lots of, yeah. Well, and it was a, it was a sign of respect to the writer. and I really appreciated it. It was amazing to watch. Was Janine Garofalo in that? Yes, it was her last show. No, no, no, George Clooney, a couple of shows later was last,

but that was one of her favorite episodes when Baldwin was there. Wait, was Janine gonna, wait, was that, was there a sketch in that one where I will stop this car, where they're driving? Yes. That was in that. Okay, that was mine also. That might have been my three sketch show. That's amazing to get that much in as a guest writer.

I mean, that season. Yeah, well, I like, well, I, like, well, I, like I told you, I had time to work on the sketch. Plus, that season was very difficult. I mean, it was Gene Garofalo, Chris Elliott. It definitely had a tough time. The following year, I did want to mention when Will Ferrell and Sherry O'Terry come in and Daryl Hammond.

Lauren gets you and Robert Smigle to be there for the very first bunches of shows. Robert writes the cold open for show number one and two. And you write, I guess, you get sketches in on three, four, and five, starting with David swimmer the kids versus the grownups another dale butterworth sketch which was really funny concept it was like a kid it was like a kid show where the kids and the grownups would challenge each other and and the premise was that all of the challenges were were geared toward giving the adults advantage yeah swimmers the game show host hated the kids and it was yeah and all the all the you know and one of the one of the challenges was tetherball which tetherball of course is just you know

the tallest guy wins. So that was one of the sketches. And then all the trivia quiz questions were sexually, you know, were adult-oriented. And then it would be like Mickey Mouse is the subject. Kids are all excited. Who's the CEO of the Walt Disney Company? Yeah, that's right. That's right.

Oh, that's right. Now, yeah, that one I have seen again. I do have a copy of that one. Don't tell anyone, please, that I watch my old sketch. It was the embarrassing. You should. You should be proud of your stuff. Please don't let that get out.

It made me laugh so loud when you did that Quentin Tarantino sketch where Norm McDonald's in the black leather jacket smoking and it's the Bible challenge, Clara Turley's Bible challenge. And you have Tarantino and you have Molly Shannon is these Christian contestants and Nancy Walls is the host. And what is the premise? It's so funny. I think I called it the Honor System game show.

It was on a little, it was a game show on a Christian channel. It's another game show. and the idea was that the host of the game show will ask questions. Questions about the Bible. It's a Bible challenge. And she will take your word for it about whether you just tell her whether or not you know the answer. You never have to answer anything because she doesn't believe anyone would lie. The first tour say, no, I didn't know that.

I didn't know that. Norm, yeah, I knew it. And he's like smoking. Norman McDonald's eating a McDonald's meal and smoking, chain smoking, and just claiming to know everything and winning every week. He had won 30 weeks in a rough. But Quinn Tarantino was in it. And that's another example. That's a host you want to score, you know, because you want to hang with Quentin Tarantino.

I can't remember if I ever got to hang with him. My memory really is a sieve. Gabriel Byrne was the following week, and he was a great host. and you did that. It was a doctor. It was Nancy Wals and Mark McKinney were parents. And it was a genetic doctor that was like, do you want to meet your kid? They haven't even, I think they had conceived and she was pregnant. And you had this like technology where if you wanted to meet them as an adult. And that was Daryl Hammond came out. They could clone your kid. I wrote it without Franken, who also was guest writing in those days.

He would come in for a few shows. I don't think he was on. Was he full time there? You might know. he was not he wrote a he wrote a clinton for um cold open for when tarentino hosted he wrote the cold open for darrell hammond it was the first time he did clinton and so you wrote that with al that's a really funny sketch i did write it with al i don't i don't remember that sketch but i remember it's so funny my memories are are so selective but i remember what i remember most is laughing on tuesday night when we're writing it i mean that's the sweetest memories I have you know I never as you mentioned maybe you know earlier I didn't go to college and and so so SNL was my fraternity you know that was my bonding time with and and I remember those

Tuesday nights so fondly and then as a guest writer it was just three or four three or four weeks a year you know I could hang out all night guilt free I even got I even went to some after party show it's been 25 years in October. I know it wasn't the best experience, but how did Norm bring you in when he hosted in 1999 in October? It was Sam Simon. Oh, wow, that's 25 years. It was you. It was Fred Wolfe. And I know Smigel was around that week. But how did Norm bring in you? Well, let me see. Norm had been famously fired, Norm and Jim Downey. I'm sure you've covered that on another show. And he was invited back. was it the following year

invited back? It was like a year or something after that it may have been a year and a half. I mean, it might have been you know, I mean, it's so interesting. It's Lauren, you know, might have been obviously feeling guilty and I'm sure their relationship was very complicated and I'm sure Jim Downey was in the

middle of it all. But they invited Norm back and Norm could, they allowed Norm to bring three writers in with him. And even that is interesting because if you think about it, that's a lot of writers to bring in for a guest stuff. And that might have been Norm's request, and it might have been a sign

from Norm, might have been a signal from Norm that I don't trust your staff. You know, it's, I need to bring in, I need to write for myself this week. You know, I don't think you're going to be able to cover me. It's, it might have been a sign of little faith. You know, it's a very interesting thing now that I think about it. But Norm brought three writers in. Fred Wolf, you're right. Sam Simon, who I was meeting for the first time that week. I didn't know him, and I came in.

And then it was, I was in the room. I can't deny being in the room, but yeah, we wrote, we wrote a monologue. It wasn't, I don't think it was my idea. I don't, but we wrote a monologue where Norm sort of took a shot or two at the, at the show, at the current show in the monologue. And it didn't go over well with the current, with the permanent. current staff there. Not surprisingly, that was the last time I guess hosted. Oh, when you ghost guest wrote, they didn't bring you in again. I think I was on their shit list. Did they ask Norm not to do that monologue?

What a great question. It's a great question. Did he do that joke? It was really one joke. It was one big joke. It was the end of the monologue. But it's a good question. Did he do it in dress? He did do it in dress, but I'm asking if they asked him... Did he do it in dress? And then did they ask him not to do it? I don't think that... Well, it's a great question. Maybe...

Look, obviously, Sam Simon's not with us, but Fred Wolf might know better than me. What a great question. I might have been in the room, you know, between dress and there. I sometimes was... If I was guessing, I would say they didn't have... it would have taken a lot of chutzpah after you fire a guy to censor him and not let him, you know, not let him take a verbal jab or two. And, you know, you got to let him have his moment.

And I don't think they did censor him. It would be my guess. They didn't ask him. They didn't censor him, but they had writers boo him. They had people on staff that were booing him when he said, I haven't gotten any funnier. The shows just got him really. bad and they had... Wait, can you hear the audio? You mean on the audio you could hear people

booing? Oh, 100%. No, it was people that worked on the show that were booing. Yeah, they booed that part. I'm sorry, is that something you could find online or did they bump it out for a dress rehearsal? It got in with the booing. They had people that, yeah, people were booing when he said that. And at good nights, nobody would... To norm, everyone stayed in the... Yeah, nobody. I remember, yeah, I know that. He was shunned on the good night. dress rehearsal as well and good and at the air they would not go up to him that's not that's not classy you can't you if you fire a guy you've got to let him joke you got to tell some jokes you've got to give him you got to give him a little he said i haven't well he said like well i'm

funny compared to well you'll see a little later saying that he was you know funnier than everyone else so they but let him take his shot let him take his shots i mean the man was the man was fired mid-season so publicly. You know, seven months before you went with, when Norm hosted, you know, Ray Romano hosted, and Phil Rosenthal and Mike Royce went over with Ray and they got sketches on. It was a good experience. You said when you went over there with Fred Wolf and Sam Simon that you could tell that you weren't welcome. How could you tell that early on that you weren't welcome? You mean during that week? Yeah. Oh, when, when? Now, when are you quoting me? I said that. It was the James Andrew Miller, Tom Shale's book.

You said, we were not welcome. Oh, well, I guess there was tension. I mean, my memory is faded with time. It's a long time ago. You told me, quote, that you were guilty by association. That's why, with the monologue that you didn't have anything to do with it, and it was just guilt by association. That's probably true.

It's probably true. I mean, that sounds to me like a joke Norm came in with. You know, that joke that Norm had been stewing on the situation. And he had a year and a half to come up with a one-liner. TV Funhouse. I know Robert brought you in. What was your favorite piece that you wrote? I know you did the Oprah Stedman thing was you.

Well, I wrote that with Robert. That might have been my suggestion, but Robert, you know, carried the ball. You know, I was not a perfect fit for me. I didn't get a lot on just a joke here or there. But it was, I'd never seen, I love being parts of projects where you can honestly say, no one's ever tried this before. You know, this is new territory. And we're in uncharted waters.

It doesn't happen often in your life where you can say that. And that was a show, that was a format that, and the tone of that show was new, not just to me, but to the world. And, yeah, I'm proud of that credit. But it wasn't my show. That was all Robert Swigle, you know. we were just writing to keep up with him. Before I ask my last question, I have to read this review.

I found this in a newspaper. This is from Calgary, from April of 1980 at the Jubilee Auditorium when you opened up for Don McLean. The review is The Star of Last Night's Concert, as far as I'm concerned, was Andy Breckman. He's a 25-year-old comedian masquerading as a singer-songwriter, probably the only guy in the show business with a biography listing his activities in the 18 years. He expects to die at 43 after turning down a Pulitzer for fiction, recording the best selling album in history, and saving the movie business from bankruptcy with a series entitled

Andy and Ollie. Breckman opened his show with a Warren Zevon-style song about a man who kills his girlfriend's brother and then claims he didn't know the gun was loaded. It hardly mattered that Breckman could hardly sing and seem to only know two chords on his guitar. He's this talented as a performer who uses the, and it's a glowing review. And my point is, is it trashes Don McLean. That's so funny. I had not read that review and was that 50 years ago. That review changed my life in a way. And I'll tell you how. I used to do this joke when I opened for Don McLean. I would come out and part of my act. I would sing a few of my songs. And then I would sing American Pond. I would sing his big song.

As the opener. I would just do it as great as I could. That's the opening act. And people were stunned at first to hear me sing. And then they laughed. They just would laugh and laugh. It was a funny thing. So anyway, Don always claim he's kind of a prickly guy.

He's a sensitive guy. But Don McLean always claimed that he enjoyed that, that he enjoyed me singing American plot. But then when that review came out, it changed our relationship instant. instantly. And he was suddenly very cold to me, very distant. You know, he took it, he was so sensitive about it. And, you know, there were some performers that would have maybe congratulated the opening act on a good review.

But anyway, it wasn't in his, that wasn't his temperament. But anyway, that night, I went out, the night, the review came out in the morning, that night I went out, I sang, I did my set. I sang American Pie, as I always had done. Big laugh, big laugh. And then I said, thank you. And I left the state. And then Don McLean came out.

Don McLean came out. And he said this in between. He said this. He said, it's great to be here. I look forward to coming every year. And I'll be back next year with a different opening act. This is what he said from the state. He took a shot at me.

He took a shot at his opening act from the state. And I was just stunned. I was just this kid, you know? I was just admired. Because you asked permission. Oh, yeah, no, I definitely had his permission. The only thing I did wrong was get well reviewed that morning, really. And he denied it.

That was my crime. And then he came off stage, and this is what he said to me. I'll never forget. He came off stage, and he looked me in that and he said, you play with me, you play with fire. And you just got burned. That was what he said to me backstage. Every cliche in the book. Last time I opened for him.

I read something or heard you. an interview say that when that good review came out that that he was reading the newspaper when you came down that morning he's like oh we got we got killed both of us bad reviews and then he threw it out and he totally lied to you he wouldn't let me see the paper he wouldn't let me see the paper so i have okay it's so funny that two of your little anecdotes about me involved me pissing people off the norm macdonald and this but um so i had my own celebrity feud i'm not a celebrity I'm not famous, but somehow I stumbled into a celebrity feud with Don McLean that continued on for years. I wrote an article about him in a small magazine, and then he responded online with the response.

He just is such a asshole. He's the biggest asshole I ever knew. And then when he got divorced, he went to a very messy divorce like five years ago. His wife's lawyer called me up and said, hey, do you have any more story? Because I had written a few stories about Don McLean, you know. And, hey, do you have any more stories? We'd like to use them in court in our divorce proceeding. I did not take him up on that.

Even though I did have more Don McLean stories, anybody that goes on tour, he gets to, you know, gets to see things and hear things. But I didn't share the story because he was really down. When a guy's getting divorced, you know, it's hard to kick him, you know. I just love that McLean in 2004. is like, you better post my response to Breckman. Yeah, there's nothing better to do. But I will say this on a final note, if you're ever in a celebrity feud, Mark,

and I know that you're on the verge of a couple, you probably, yeah, exactly, good luck. But if you're ever in a celebrity feud and the guy's wife calls asking for dirt, that means you've won the feud. So I feel like I was victorious. In 2021, it was revealed that they're doing a Jim Downey documentary called Downey wrote that. You're an executive producer on it.

There's five or six people. It's going to be on Peacock. I looked at the calendar and it's 2024. It's June and the doc is still not out. What is going on? No, it's actually, well, they had to re-edited. They went through some, it went through some changes. And Broadway video did a re-edit on it.

And it is on their schedule now. It will be on their schedule later this year. You know, they're doing a lot for the 50th season. You know, Peacock is planning a number of specials. And if you're an S&L fan, I think you're going to be overloaded with these things. But Downey wrote that will be one of the specials. I know they have at least four others because I was interviewed for one of them. Oh, I can't wait.

Yeah, they have the guy who did like Mr. Rogers documentary and a bunch of others that is doing a bunch of, I think, like five shorter documentaries. Yeah, no, they're doing five. The Downey Dock was re-edited by Os Rodriguez, who is sort of the 18, one of the 18 guys from Broadway video. I don't think people, a lot of people know listening how in awe, if you are a comedy writer. I mean, Smigel is one of the greatest of all time. I mean, I think he's probably, you know, he's, I think for me,

personal. I mean, known him since I was 17. And for him just to be in awe of Downey says, speaks volumes for someone like him. Oh my God. Well, he's not alone. I mean, everybody in the business. Everybody does anybody that's any good. Everybody admires him. And then it feels like thousands of thousands of famous names are indebted to him. Because he got them their first gig or recommended them for one of their early jobs. So everyone admires him and many, many people are indebted to him and the tone he struck became in many ways the tone of of the of the of SNL you know he was more than the institutional memory he was he was the comedic voice so a very important comedy writer and it's not surprising that of the thousands how many writers has have

written for SNL over since over the 50 years if I had to guess probably like 170 maybe maybe 200 oh I would guess I would say more if you him all up over the... I guess some people were only there for a little bit like that's right. I would guess

it was significantly more than that. But of all those writers, hundreds of writers, only one, I think, you know, is getting his own doc, you know.

I mean, yeah, I mean, I can't wait. By the way, if I reach out to Mr. Downey, can I mention that I talk to you? Oh, sure. That'll move the needle.

Sure. That'll move the needle. You guys are best friends. I mean... Well, well, he's actually a difficult guy to sometimes a difficult guy to get a hold of, but he's worth the, my experience, he's worth the trouble. I have his contact information. I will check it out. I mean, all these

guys love you. I mean, Al Franken took you on, with the troops overseas. I mean, yeah, he did. Yeah, he took me. He used to go every, he used to go every year before he was in the Senate, went every year. He got to bring a writer with him every year. It was like his Bob Hope special, you and him. Well, I was not on stage with him, but he was, he let me, we did a week or two weeks in the shit. That's what I like to say. It wasn't, I was not really near the shit. You've done interviews.

How did this go for you? I know you asked me, but how did it go for you? It's really great. And I really, I love how that helps deeply you drill down. And if Downey asked me, I'll definitely recommend the experience to him. Oh, thanks. And I will, this is one interview that I hope, you know, down the road, you know, I have five kids that they're ever curious about

about what their old man did for a living. This is something that they might want to bring out. Thanks for listening. Please subscribe so you never miss an episode. On Apple Podcasts, please rate it and leave a review. Be sure to go to late-nighter.com for all your late-night TV news. And you can find my podcast at late-nighter.com forward slash podcasts.

Have a wonderful week, and I'll see you next Tuesday. Thank you. I'm going to be able to be. Thank you.