Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Andy Kindler

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

Andy Kindler joins Mark to discuss his 39 Letterman appearances, Garry Shandling, Bob Saget, Norm Macdonald, & more! Follow Andy on X (Twitter): https://x.com/andykindler Official Website: http://www.andykindler.com/

Hi, I am Mark Malkoff and welcome to Inside Late Night, presented by late-nighter.com. Today's guest is comedian Andy Kinler. We discuss his nearly 40 David Letterman appearances, Gary Shanlane, Bob Sagitt, and much more. Now it's time to go inside late night. Andy Kinler, nice to see you. Good to see you. This seems like a long time, not a long time. since I've spoke to you last,

but a long time since this session began. It has. We had some technical issues, people that are listening, but it was, you know, that things happened, I guess.

It happened with David Cross, I think, one other person, but it doesn't normally. And then he was, did David Cross go crazy? I, this will not stand.

I am David Cross. No, he was probably nice. He was actually, it was like 17 minutes. I think it's the only other person. And we just kind of waved at each other and couldn't hear each other

just like we just did. But here we are. So I'm in Queens. I live in Astoria, Queens. You grew up in Whitestone Queens, and then you go to college, and it's Binghamton. Binghamton. In fact, not only did I grow up in Whitestone Queens, my father owned, my father had a company called Pilot Gas and Heat, and then it split off where he had a supply company for the same

pilot gas and heat. So he had his office in Long Island City, but yet, and his name was a lot of, and his name was Lawrence, Larry, but we, as a nickname, we called him Lawrence of Astoria, is what we would call him. I like it. And he was kind of a rule that area. Yeah. So, yeah, so he had his business there. And I went, I went upstate to the State University of New York at Binghamton. So you're there, and this is the late 70s. And you're doing plays. You're doing, I know you did Mad Dog Blues by Sam Shepard, and you did a play caught heart and soul. So did you think at this Point, I knew you were doing violin lessons that you would ever go into comedy.

You know, it's so funny that you're talking about this because I, because I grew up, born in 56, so when the Beals came out, I was there watching the TV. So from that generation, you would have had to have early on been leaning towards comedy. Now, later on, I found out that my dad, when he was a boy, walked to school back and, this is an actual true story. For two years, he walked back and forth to school with Don Rickles, and they lived in Jackson Heights. And the thing that was amazing was I actually, this was like one of my favorite stories is I met Don Rickles at the American Comedy Awards. And I said to him, I said, Don, my father, Larry Kindler, walked to school with you every day. He goes, yeah, great, tell Larry will have lunch, right? So he walks off.

And then two weeks later, they're shooting a Comedy Central promo, and I'm the driver in the promo. So I say the two hours in, I want to never get rested. I said, Mr. Rickles, I just want to tell you, my father, Larry Kendall, really did go to school with you and you both were born in Jackson Heights. He goes, yeah, I remember he had a blue jacket. So then he sends me two weeks later, I thought that would be the end of it. Two weeks later, he sends me and my father, eight by ten head shots. And to me, he goes, dear Andy, don't call me. And then, dear Larry, have a ball.

And my father just absolutely adored it. I love that you got to work with so many just amazing people that you found funny over the years. I know that you kind of get this reputation for, you know, you don't like people. But, I mean, you got to do the Larry Sanders show. And I know you were a big Shanling fan or admirer at least this work. Yeah. See, the thing is like, if I was in rap, I would be celebrated for all the feuds. But no, when I put down, when I, when I, when I would say things like I'm offering a million dollars for footage of Whoopi Goldberg being funny.

There was no, there was nobody was celebrating me as part of the comic feud. When I said, who died and made Jim Belushi a big star? This was not celebrated because comics have extremely thin skin as opposed to rappers. It's a little bit different, but you got really blown up by doing that at my, Montreal, you would get up. And it was written in the New York Times, and you got so much press with the state of the industry. And it started in 96. And it was this thing where, you know, they asked you to do it once. And you'd killed so much. And then you would do a Q&A. And then it just grew into this thing where it was, the press just loved it. And it was this

inside thing that you probably never thought would go past the room. And then soon it's national news. Well, here's the thing about going past the room. You know, it's like I'm a regular human being. In 1996, I was born in 56. I was 40 years old. And I started comedy when I was 28. The thing I was going to tell you was that I wanted to make a living in music. So I played violin when I was a kid. I hated it. Hated and hated it. And then I switched to guitar in high school because my sister played it. And she said a beautiful voice. She's passed away. I love her. God rest her soul, we used to sing together. And so that's what I thought.

In fact, I played a Catcher Rising Star back in 1975 or something like this one. It was mostly a music club, and I played music there. So I kind of just stumbled, I kind of, the thing that was great about stand-up for me, which I really did stumble into it, even though I had gone to the comedy store. And of course, I, you know, my whole life, I'd done all this acting in college. So you would have thought I would have gotten the idea early. but I didn't start until I was 28. I love the fact in college you were billed as Andrew Kinler.

Well, this is so crazy to me. That's also me as struggling. And, you know, I have a podcast, and I'm not just plugging it. It's called Thoughts Fire. But we talk about all the embarrassing parts of my life. And one of the most embarrassing things is that when I was a freshman in college, I did want to call myself Andrew Kindler. And I tried writing, I thought, because Andy Kinlet sound too informal.

I wanted to write poems. And God Almighty, they were terrible poems. You did get a good review, though, when you're in college in February of 77 for Heart and Soul. This is a critic from the press on Bulletin. Andrew Kindler's heart is constantly at the center of the play's swirl. He is believable as an almost rock star, and his performance keeps the play from floundering. Well, I don't know about that because the guy who wrote the play was Ed Schneider, and I'm still friends with him, and it wasn't floundering.

And Ed, I go to the wall for that script. I loved heart and soul. But the thing is, oh, I'm sorry. It's a critic. It was just a theater writer. I know. I'm just kidding around. Yeah.

I'm just, I'm kidding around. Come on, Mark. You know me. I do. All right. So basically, what, this is interesting that you're saying it because I did want to be an after and whether you use this or not, is a real. But I had very low self-esteem, interestingly enough.

You thought I had higher self-esteem, but I had very low self-esteem. I was encouraged to be funny as a kid. because that made the whole family laugh. But other things weren't encouraged. So I did not think I could sing because I hated my voice and I hated, but I realized now that the therapy, yes, that's the judge shadow, shame shadow in your head that's always going after me. So now I actually have a better relationship.

I have a great relationship with music because I want to sing and I want to play and I just do it. I don't think about, oh, my good enough to do it. but it really kind of freaked me out, not thinking I had self-esteem and not thinking. So all this stuff in college that I had done, which I thought, the other thing was my director friend in college, who was a good friend of mine. He passed away, but he's a really great friend of mine. He was going through this method thing where he was saying, you have to be in the moment. You have to be in the moment. And I never felt completely in the moment. So like three years into the program, my friend Naomi says, hey, I don't feel in the moment. And then he goes,

we'll just go with that. So this whole time, I was trying. to feel like I wasn't a complete actor, but then you know, you find out from other actors like Jack Lemmon would say, how can you be totally in the role that you don't hear anybody's voice? It doesn't make sense. So that's all to say that I did have a love for that early on and comedy early on, and the comedy did really, I did, I won a declin, this sounds like, I'm being, I'm pregnant, but I won a declamation contest in ninth grade. And it doesn't even matter that none of us know what a declamation contest was. But I was doing like a poem, like one of these like, oh, Captain, my Captain poems, and I improv that there was a coach criticizing me while I was doing it.

So, I mean, and that was, and I did that in like Golden Auditorium in Queens. You would have thought my self-esteem was that you've got something here, kiddo. But no, my self-esteem remained very, very low until recently. Until today. Who gets 39 Letterman bookings? It's amazing. I was talking to Don Giller today, the Don's, who's the official letterman expert. And he said on IMDB 35, but he said, no, it's 39 plus a bump.

And that's, it's just amazing. Is that count? I don't even know if that counts all the stand-up appearances. I think it does. It might. Okay. He knows. It's unbelievable.

Let's start at the beginning. This is July 1, 1996. You show up. This is your dream. to do Letterman. Harry Connick is on the show. Who did you work with? Because Zoe Freeman wasn't there yet.

Joey Freeman was there. Oh, okay. So were you working with him? I work with Joey. And yeah, and the thing that you're looking at, I think that's the night I was bumped. It was,

but I wanted to kind of talk about what you remember because, you know, you're at the show, you have all this adrenaline, you're backstage. I wasn't backstage. This is such an amazing,

stop buildings. I hate people go, it's a funny story, it's an amazing story. Stop overselling your story. But no, what happened was I had been, the show was so popular at that time, and they had some weird thing where they were two shows a night. That's what it was. Thursdays.

Yes, they were doing two shows a night. And usually the comedy was on the second Thursday show, I think. So I'm out in a camper or whatever you call, Honeywagon, whatever they call those things. And I walk, I'm nervous, nervous, nervous, nervous, nervous. I walk into the where everybody is Zoe my parents I brought my parents

down there I brought my parents down there I put my friend Ira from college down there I never did this again I never repeated

this again and so they're all in the trailer and they're sitting so I walk on the trail and go what's the matter

am I getting bumped and of course I was getting bumped so that Harry Connor could do a third song I got bumped and this is

such a true story my father was so hurt It was so hard by it. He was looking at the window. He was like almost crying from it. And then my mother said, bumped. Why don't they say what it really is? They're breaking the promise. You did get paid, which is nice. That's always good. Was it Flip Wilson? We got five times with Carson and yeah, the money. It's still good at scale, but it's still decent money. And back then, before the town cars, they give you a limousine. So you have that going for you. But why would you be out in a trailer? I've never heard of that.

I think it was just a year or two where they did these two. Maybe they stopped even doing these two shows or they did continue the two shows. I think they continued the two shows, but they kept it inside. They figured out the way it did not have trailers. It must have been a brief period. So you don't come back until October. This is Gina Davis, Marve, Albert, Peter Gallagher, and yourself. So you have a few months.

Are you just running this Letterman set every day? Do you have any idea when you're going to get called or is it one of those things where Zoe? It's just like, we want you tomorrow or how does it work? Yeah, I think I'm, you know, I would be lying if I said I remember everything that happened between the first date that you said that I don't remember, which was the first date. June? You was July 1st that you were bumped and then October 10th, which. And so I don't remember exactly what happened.

I don't think, but I remember going on there, but I remember, but to me I bombed on that show, absolutely bombed. Why? Why do you think so? Because you were, you came back on the show so many times. Okay, so here's what happened. I thought I bombed, but I always think I bombed because what I wanted to be is I wanted to be at the level of lettermen that he could see that I was like a letterman and I talked about myself because I was so influenced by him. He would be self-deprecating and he talked about.

I was just extremely nervous. So I'm not a good, I'm not a good view, but it felt bad. The set felt bad. And I wasn't invited back for four years. And when I came back to the show in 2000, my opening line was, you know, I was here in 96. I'm here in 2000 now. I said, I can't live on this kind of month.

It's really funny. So Eddie Brill is doing the book in. Doing it then. Yeah. And he gets you in. And then you come back later that year and then 2001 and then 2005. Sometimes people say, you know, Letterman, in terms of the visibility and stuff,

you know, it's Ray Romano, definitely gaff again. He got a sitcom out of it. And then in terms of exposure and stuff, I mean, it's, you did, according to the records, it's something like you did remotes 25 times, which is unheard of.

I mean, for some, for a stand-up comedian, he's never had another stand-up comic that I know of on CBS or even NBC do remotes. Can you think of anybody? Well, I mean, this is what the thing that's,

you know, this is the thing that I've said my entire life that I don't care if I do one more thing, I'm happy. I don't care if I do one more thing. I'm happy because that was my career goal was to be on Letterman. That was what I dreamed about. And then to have him, you know, it sounds like I'm one of these old Sam, you know, one of these old

Borchfeld guys. Yeah, he loved me. No, but what happened was that he called, wanted me, he called personally, not to me, but to my people, because he wanted me to start doing the field pieces. And what had happened was he used to do the field pieces all the time when there's, show started. And I mean, this is what I heard was that he couldn't go out anymore. He kept getting mobbed. Couldn't go out. So then he started doing that thing with the Deli, Hello, Deli. Rupert Rupert. Yes. Unbelievably hilarious routines, but almost got Rupert. What I heard was it,

almost got Rupert. They, you know, beaten up, not that close, but they were starting to get worried because the people would be so upset at the things that Letterman was telling Rupert to say. But then he decided to, he said he came to me and just want to know, would I be interested in doing these pieces? Now, he didn't say, you're going to be doing 25 of them. You know, he didn't say anything. It was just that this was the next direction they were going to go in for however long it worked. You know, like that type of thing. Yeah, Rupert, the last Rupert that didn't air, it was a, I believe that was a car salesman pulled a gun on Rupert.

Oh. And that was, I think, when they said, Dave was said, we're not doing this. anymore. Yeah. So the field pieces, I do want to ask you, first of all, the pieces that I saw, and I don't think I saw all 25,

but I mean, Oh, no, come on, Ma. Oh, I mean, it's Christmas. Usually for my preparation, I would see everything, but I do have to ask, and I think it's amazing what you have here. I mean, this is like,

this is your life almost. Oh, I was going to say, though, do you think it's at least fair to say that maybe part of Dave's decision other than, you being funny and the piece is working and getting lots of lives with the audience had something to do at least a little bit

with you publicly kind of bashing Jay Leno. Do you think that had anything? I would not be surprised. I would not be, here's what I think. I was friends, really good friends. Well, you even say really good friends. I wasn't like Letterman was friends with him,

but I was really good friends with George Miller. And I was friends with him right towards the end of his life. And so he was always telling me about, he was, first of all, tried to tell, I think he told Letterman about me, but I think it's true what you're saying that it may very well have been true, but at any rate, Letterman began, I knew he enjoyed my comment. I just knew that, and that was, and Jerry, who passed away, I'm sorry about this, Jerry. Jerry Oley, the director, who passed away, told me something at an early

shoot that really, it really is great to hear, and it's kind of true. he goes with he goes with david letterman if he thinks you're funny it's gold funny is gold to him so i knew that he thought i was funny and in fact once he he repeated one of my jokes during another show when i wasn't on it didn't go it got cut out but he said he know he repeated a punch line of mine and so it's like such a to me i'll never get over the fact that he was a hero He's a hero to me. I will never be able to overcome how I feel about him. I'm not comparing myself to him and Carson,

but the way he was around Carson, because he always felt nervous. And it's like I feel that way about him. And so, yeah, it just was it was the dream of my life that did come true. He personally put you in the Food Fighters montage, the last show. Did you have any idea? No idea. That you were going to be there?

Oh, God, thrilled. thrilled. I was so thrilled. And the only thing I did, I wasn't putting, I wasn't wearing around my welcome, but my last stand-up was not that long before the end of the show, but not the final ones. It's February. It was February of the same year, right? My wife and everybody was like, my, let me try to get one more set in there. And then I sent another set to be approved. I'm sorry. No problem. No problem. No. I, you know, it's the thing about it is, the other thing he did once was he got an award award and he asked me to pick it up for him like he like i would accept an award i can't remember what the award was for now i couldn't do it but the fact that he would

ask me to do that so if my dream in life which other people's approval can only go so far but if one of my dreams in life was for david letterman to think i'm funny that dream did come true absolutely the problem is the problem is if you start going Oh, well, now I'll call Dave and ask him what he's doing. Hey, have me. So I've been very, it's like, I grew up very insecure, very envious and all this. But I'm so aware of myself now. So I'm so clear like with that event that that event was the greatest thing and nothing more need happen.

Although I'd like to get wealthy, I'd like Trump to be removed from office physically. Did Dave ever come by your dressing room before the show? or ever have any conversations off-camera? Because I know, and I've mentioned this before, Brian Regan, somebody I know asked him, what is Dave like? And he went on the show so many times. And it's like, I wouldn't know.

I never saw him, talked to him off the stage after my set. We never had a conversation. Did you have a conversation with him? I was lucky because I was presenting the field piece I taped. So during the film piece, we would have, you know, like I would have brief conversations, but I would say, like, one time I said to him,

I said, how are you doing? He goes, I could drop dead tomorrow. He was like, when he was kidding, right? He was like, very, very funny. And he was always, oh, wait, one thing that happened on the show, my name was called, and Biff thought I wasn't supposed to be out there. And so he blocked me from going on the show. Blocked me from going on.

I wrestled with Biff. I got out on the set, and I could see Dave was concerned. And the first thing I did was I sold Biff down the river. sold him down the river. I said, Biff was trying to stop me from entering the stage. I did feel bad about that for a while,

but I'm not going down for that. Going down for that. The other thing was, yeah, I mean, just like, so during the, when the, but it was always brief things. Oh, when I got hurt,

I don't know if you can know I got hurt off the, what was it? A pogo stick. Yeah, you did a bit. And I got really hurt. Really, I mean, I could have been really more hurt.

They had just thrown a helmet on me and then just the helmet If they hadn't thrown a helmet I think I really could have cracked my skull Well, he kept saying, you have to sue us When I was coming in to talk about it Because I showed the film He goes, you have to sue us

Absolutely And then even to the point where I forgot Who the executive producer Was getting annoyed at Dave For encouraging me to sue Meanwhile, I went through their workman's comp And I said, yeah, I went through their workman. My mother's going, don't, what are you doing?

Don't upset them. I said, no, Mom, I was literally on the job. It got hurt. When you do these remotes, who would be with you other than the director? Which writers would Tom Rupert be with you? All the writers at one point would take a shot at it. But the main person was, and the only person was Jeremy Weiner, who was one of the writers on the show, is a really good friend.

I mean, we really got to be great friends. And a lot of the things that people say to me when they see me on the street, they go, that might love this line, you know, like the one about psychics. It was his line. So it's always a learning curve in the sense that the reason why it wasn't as much a learning curve as it could have been was like, I know I'm on the greatest show in the world. I know these guys are the greatest writers in the world. And Jeremy just happened to be one of the hilarious and an incredible human being.

But you're still like, your ego still goes, oh, maybe I can. And I'm, of course, I am. I was allowed to add them, but thank God they were there, you know, because they did provide so many of the actual, you know, punchlines. You did at least one of the Super Bowls. What was that like doing the remote? That was so scary. That was scary, but it was, I remember that I had, I don't think.

I did more than one, right? I even looking, I'd have to, I can check. I think I did more than one because I did one in Detroit. That was, that was in Detroit, which was the, which was the Pittsburgh Steelers winning. And then I did another one where Peyton Manning lost, I think Reggie Bush

won. So I needed at least two, if not more. You did two and then you did two Yankees spring training? Right, that's, yeah, exactly. And I did one met spring training. I'm looking at this. The psychics, you meet with the Barbie collectors, the life coaches.

The Barbie collector was an interesting gentleman. The thing I want to say is that it was scary to go to the Super Bowl. I wasn't like I ever, okay, this is my favorite story, so I don't know if I can tell this story. You might get, let me see, could I get sued with this? I don't know, but here's the thing. We're at a shoot and Sumner Redstone comes out. And I would say, and I'll testify that he was very, very, very drunk. He comes out, well, I never liked him, did not like him that much when he was alive. And I even read books about him to back up my feelings. But he comes out of

this room, and you're like, hey, you want to, you want to take my picture? We have these big cameras. He doesn't realize that we're not like just taking snaps. So I go, no, so I started talking to him. I start interviewing him. He's very drunk, but he's, I'm not trying to sandbag him. But immediately after that, Les Moonvest was at the same suit, caught our eye and then it never made, it never made on the show.

And that's just, I'm just saying, I know it's unusual to hear something negative. about less moon beds, but I'm saying there was another side. At least I won't affect your career anymore. But I was a kid because he's a horrible book. I read his book too. He's a horrible, not his book, but about him. He's not good, not good.

So you do these remotes and you're getting so much stage time. I didn't want to ask you about Jay because you would, in Montreal in interviews, you would mention Jay sometimes Leno. And my guess, and tell me if I'm wrong, is that you I'm guessing that you loved his stand-up and his Letterman appearances leading up until he started guest hosting for Johnny. Absolutely. It was a huge fan of him in the 80s.

So was Letterman. He became, he became, but that was the best format for him. Exactly. He was the loosest on that. No, all comics of my generation, most of us loved, idolized Leno, that he was that funny. I was just going to say, normally, if Jay finds out somebody doesn't like him. him or says something goes to the person to try to resolve it. Did he ever try to do that with you? Oh, well, this is, you know, I'm sorry that my stories come out like old alter-cocker anecdotes

from the motion picture home. But this is the actual true story. My wife was an amazing photographer. She was doing a promo, you know, someone was shooting some promo shots. And the mother of the, of the actor she was shooting had said, Jay Leno was right down the street. His car is broken down. Anybody want to go down and look at that? So to me, it seemed, oh, yeah, I'd have to be funny to look at Jay Leonard. So we start walking towards him,

and she starts saying, do you like Jay Leno? I go, no, no, I do not like him. I put him down all the time. My act, I guess, I mean, he goes, really? But what I don't, and she goes, you want to cross the street to get closer? Because he's at the corner. I said, sure.

What I didn't realize is, I didn't realize that she was going to make a B-line for Jay Leno. I walked past them as if I was walking, and I was walking under the freeway to an area where you would normally not be walking. And I see her going up and go, you know, talking to Jay Leno because she loves them. And then he goes, yeah, he goes, Andy Kimla, yeah, Andy Kimla. That's the guy who hate, and he got my name on. That's the guy who hates me.

So then I sheepishly come back up and I go, yeah, hi, Jay. I go, it's okay to hate. It's okay to hate. and so he obviously knew that and one time I introduced him at a benefit that we were both doing and I said ladies gentlemen and you might know him from the time

he goes, it tells you to do this, doesn't it? But you know, as the time it's gone along I just don't see the I think I'm still angry at what happened with the Letterman show, but it's hard to stay angry. I mean if you were a member of the staff of Conan and thought you were moving out to do

there's a lot of reasons to stay with the grudge against Leno for saying he was going to go and not going. I mean, I have a lot of things to say about the way he conducted himself professionally. And, you know, he had Helen Kushnick as his manager and he absolutely wanted that show and prevent the day from happening. But in the long run, that doesn't matter. It only mattered at the time. And he'll always be someone who's funny, but he's always someone who makes up stuff like

those books he read, you know, the books he writes. He goes, one time he has a book He goes, yeah, this guy was in Italy He tells these stories on TV He goes, I was in Italy And I look down and I see someone's wallet And I look in and there's money in it

And I hold it up I go, is for Shezno here? Is for Shezno here? And this guy comes up and Are you kidding me? The guy runs up to him He says it to his wallet He also claims early in his career

To have left a big bag of money at the improv and drove back again. I'm just saying he's a tall teller, but I think he's also a wonderful man who gives a charity, who loves his wife, and is not a bad, he's not a bad person. I wouldn't think. It's all within the, the dislike is not,

is all within our context of the group. Yeah, you basically would tell him, I'm guessing it's not personal. It's just, once, it's just the Tonight Show, it just wasn't. a cup of tea? Well, but it was personal. I mean, one of the guys, I was told, one of these guys who passed, he passed away,

I don't know if it's true, but I was told by a source I can't reveal that Rick Ludwin tried to keep me off of Conan. I think Rick Ludwin died not that long ago. He did. He died a couple years ago. He tried to keep you off of Conan? So I was told they was trying to keep me off Conan because of the things I said about Jay Leno.

I'm sure they didn't love the character. on Conan Little J. Did you ever see that? Oh, I did see that. Yeah, I'm sure that they didn't. That was the same guy who did the mini kiss. I don't remember the mini Gene Simmons.

They had a kid's a kiss trivia band with little people that would play around the country and that was the same. I think Andy Blitz told me that. I think Andy Blitz came up with that idea on Conan Mini J. Leno.

So they kept you, I think they, you see, I have a little, you know, I don't remember what I forgot now. You know what I mean? But I think absolutely. they stopped putting me on Conan.

You did seven of them, but at one point they stopped, okay? They stopped. What was it like doing Conan's show? I loved it. I loved it back in the old studio. Well, actually, no, no, here's the thing. I love Conan, so I think someone like Rick Ludwin or something

was doing it above Conan. I don't think it was like even Conan may have even known it because I think Conan, I always loved him. He was like, I did Conan in New York, and then I did do it. him out in L.A. once when he came out to L.A. So I never had a problem with him or felt angry at him about it. It was always I knew these suits at NBC. And I resonated with him so well. I thought he was so hilarious that I didn't. And I was so like, like, didn't realize what was

going on. But he had me stay in his dressing room after the show. And he was just, you know, entertaining me and all this kind of stuff. And I really goes, where do you live? You're in L.A. You know, and I realized after that, that if I had lived in New York, he probably, I really think he would have offered me to write on the show. That would have been something. Yeah, you would have been great at that. I could totally. Or if I had even pursued it or known that he was doing it, maybe I did, had no idea until a long time afterwards, I put it together in my head. Or I could have even said, oh, I'll stay at my mother's house, you know.

You got a lot of Conan bookings. And then I know you were a contributor for the Daily Show and got good reviews. I read a newspaper review that was, I think you did at least a few of them? How did that go? You know, it's like one of these things like, as you look at John Stewart now, and me, you don't have to get into this, but just like the fact that he thinks Joe Rogan's a nice guy, and he says nothing, you know, the guy who did the joke about Puerto Rico being a garbage dump, and that's just doing, he's just doing his job.

I think that any reasonable person can conclude that he's not the hero we thought that he was. And he was never, I mean, if the stories are true, which I don't know, but I've heard it from so many sources that he tried to stop his show from going Writers Guild, right in the middle of, and I think people, we misunderstood him. We thought he was a hero who just went after Fox News. But he's actually kind of a conservative guy. And recently, he's really been, it's almost been just so out of touch of him when he's, you know, said, I think Joe Rogan's a nice guy. Joe Rogan's not a nice guy. It's not like a matter of, so it's like I see.

So back then, there was a lot of egos going on. And John was fine to me, but because I was taping in L.A., I'm pretty sure it was Ben Carlin, but John wasn't going to object to it. Ben Carlin was like a guy who just, he kept trying to, I would do these things. I was a TV guy, I was called. So I was doing these reviews as TV guy, and it was a really, you know, a lot of fun. and they kept trying to, like, they kept, you know, stepping on my jock, as the housewife say. They kept stepping on my jock going, I don't understand what is, you know, how does how you review television fit in with the daily show?

I said, I don't know. It's like, you know, I'm just a reviewer. So, and of course, it got in my head with it. And so eventually, they, I think because I didn't, because I think Ben Karam didn't like what I was doing. And I don't think John Stewart got involved with it enough, but he was just like fakingly nice meeting. It wasn't until after that that I realized all the stuff that he had been involved with, you know, on his show.

And who was the guy that he had a big feud with who tried to tell him about racism on the show? Wyatt Senac. Yes. Yeah, Wyatt went on Mark Marin's show and, yeah, talked about that that made big news. What was it like doing the Larry Sand? show. Now, so that's an example of a dream come true that happened because a dream

because of a dream come true. Rick Overton, the comedian Rick Overton was booked to be on that show. I was always in love with that show. And I was friends with Judd Apat. I knew Judd Apatow really well. And in fact, Judd Apatow had written in an early version of Larry Sanders. He goes, and comedian Andy Kinler will be on the show tonight. And my back, when I grew up in Whitestone Queens, when I went to visit there, the gas station guy said, hey, I thought you were going to be on. You weren't on. And people were upset because it didn't happen. And so that was funny. But then Rick Overton canceled and I went right in. I was nervous. So nervous, nervous, nervous, nervous. But I think the original storyline was about Rick Overton being taken up the show.

So it was, I, of course, it was very hard on myself. Like I was the first, Thomas on Letterman, but it went, I think, pretty good. And Larry Sanders was very nice. Gary Sanders was very nice. He was very nice to me. I know that he could be, you know, if you saw the Judapital documentary, you know, you know that he was not an easy person to get along, but he was very nice to me. And he actually did, I think that his thing was just relax.

And I think that was needed. So I love doing it. And I was with Janine Groffel all day. He's my best friends. We started in the alternative comedy movement. She was like one of my best friends at the time because we were all in the L.A. scene with Lauren Milligan,

Janine Garofalo, Bob Odenkirk. So the whole thing was a thrill. It must have been amazing in 92 when you did the Young Comedian Special in 1992. It was Ray Romano. It was Janine, Judd, Apatow, and Janine Garofalo, Bill Bellamy, yourself. And I think Nick DiPaolo maybe.

But what was that experience like? Just as you would think it would be, just like an amazing, amazing fairy tale type thing. You know, I will say to you now, I don't think I was as good at comic back then as I am now or even a few years after that, only in the sense that I wasn't so much me on stage. I was very nervous. And so I kept thinking I wasn't coming across. And they had a shot between two shows. So like, if you look at it closely with the editing, my pockets out of my pants, my pocket's out of my pants. My pocket's out of my pants. But the material I was very proud of. And I don't think it's good to go. I don't think eventually when you're getting your grave, I don't know why I get in my grave. I guess that's one way of doing it.

But when you die at the end of your life, I don't think it's good to look back and go, I wasn't funny that. I was funny then. I was funny. I don't want to be over undersell that I could be a very funny person, but it was nerve-wracking and very exciting. Dana Carvey was the host.

It was a big deal. I mean, it was an enormous deal back then. It was the big, it was the big breaking show back then, I think. Maybe not as much as it was earlier. Maybe that was when it was, see, because what, when did that, when was it, when was it, 92? That's at the height of the comedy, kind of the height of the comedy boom. I don't want to say I was a casualty of the high of the comedy boom because I wasn't, you know, everybody goes,

oh, you want a sitcom, he goes, well, I would have liked this sitcom, but I didn't get a sitcom, but it didn't happen. I, you know, I was in a pilot, I was in this, I was in that. And so now I feel like I'm very proud of myself. I was always should be proud of myself. But I think that I was a little bit, if you were looking at my career and go, where's his home improvement? Where's his this? I got the comedy boom was starting to implode around then.

And they weren't giving out the money. The last, they gave a million dollars, I think, to Hedberg. And Hedberg used to do a joke about how, how come when you're a comedian, And they want you to do, like, can you be a fireman? They never ask that about a chef, you know. Oh, you're a great cook. Can you also sew? So, you know, there's always a person in your mind that's, you know, if I was to say to you,

no, I wouldn't want him to be more in my career. I'd be lying because there's always that part of you. But when I look back at it now, I think I was so fortunate to be a part of this comedy movement. All these great people, Mr. Show. And that alternative comedy boom, I mean, alternative comedy movement as a reaction to the comedy boom are both things that are probably forgotten now because people, when I perform and the kids don't know

that there was a comedy boom, they're too young. Probably, maybe not our audience. But yeah, it was definitely, it shook things up. And it was just, it just imploded. And there was, but I have to say here in New York City, I cannot believe the amount of comedy clubs. There's never been more comedy clubs. I think comedy is so, I mean, I'm sorry to keep in there.

Comedy is so great right now. I would say the comedy is better than it's ever been. There are more great, great comedians than there's ever been just because there's not as many filters on, you know, of course, you know, you have people like Gabe Chappelle who are, you know, right-wing lunatics and they're trying to, you know, make money on hate. but generally at the club level you can be whoever you want to be and so that means there's still so many shows also when I was playing you could never see really at my start on the road you couldn't see online my tape you couldn't so you would go to a show you didn't know who you were going to so like I used to do a joke about how the clubs would have these contests hey

wonderful you've you've won our answer the phone contest you uh you've just won the right to bring you and 40 people who know even less about comedy than you do to the club this week. And so, like, that happened in the 90s. I mean, Bill Hicks, who would love these clubs in Chicago, I think the fur, I forgot the one he loved, the funny farm maybe, they became the crowd's turn. Some of the funniest stuff is Bill Hicks, like, once he's in Dallas and he's going, can I get this answer here?

Did JFK get shot in Dallas, or did he commit suicide? So there was a whole bunch, but now I think it is like kind of a golden age, but the golden age has been a while, but you think it's been happening for a while? It's definitely, it's definitely, I've noticed over the years. I mean, maybe, yeah, it's just, there's so many more outlets. And I remember when I first moved to New York, I knew pretty much all the stand-ups. I knew who they were, and now it's just like- When did you move?

Oh, goodness, I'm dating myself, but I went to college here in 94, and I moved here, and I was just a- You went to college? Okay, where'd you go to college? NYU. Oh, see, I knew you're planning that the whole time just so you could come down. I was going, boom. But I'll tell you this. I got into NYU only because I was an acting major.

And my grades, my SATs were 300 points, lower than they wanted. And my grades were like a point or two. But for acting majors, and I had a very good interview. I'm very good with that. And I say, they make an exception. They put me an academic probation for a year. Well, wasn't that great then? I mean, weren't you happy about that?

I mean, what a great place to go, don't you think? It was pretty amazing. I mean, the Boston Comedy Club was a door guy for a while. And that's before, it was like after Neil Brennan, after Sarah, Silverman was gone. How about Eugene? Was it after Eugene? Or with Eugene? Is it Merman?

Yeah. Um, gosh, I think that might have been after. Yeah, well, he never played. He never played. You said the Boston Comedy Club? I mean, that was Barry Katz's club on 3rd Street in the city in New York. That's what I mentioned. Oh, yeah, that was terrible.

That was a rough club. I don't know if you ever played there. Yeah, I met Chappelle, though. Des Chappelle was on every night. I mean, when I was there, when I was the dork guy. I thought you were talking about Knicks for a second. Oh, no, no, no. I was talking about that.

I was going to ask you about Letterman when you would do your remotes, would they let you sit in on the edit or give you edit notes at all? I had nothing to do with the editing. So it was all their decisions, but I got to see when each, you know, like, because it's done the day of the show sometimes. I got to see what was in, you know, what was in. I got to see the process. And, of course, the process is so on one level of discourage. because they always he always Dave does he chops it down

down down down like and then there's always this story there's like a joke on the show maybe we'll put it into pods you know that you can look at if they had been more up to date online back then maybe they would have sooner put them the footage into other

but they never happened but I knew but again it was like a dream come true because I knew it was the best people who were editing me and they were only going to edit me for the comedy you're in the best hands for sure. What was it like when you did that remote with the training to be a U.S. Marshall? That was like, again, I'm a very, very progressive, very progressive politically.

But when you go on something like that, you just put everything, you're all of a sudden, I wanted to be whatever they would be for that day. So I did like, you know, take downs of people. I learned how to shoot a gun. And it was just, it's just incredible. For that day, you feel like, there's nothing but exciting. And they were all, they all wanted to be on cameras. They were all funny, too, in a way. They made up a most wanted thing for me. Yes. Like Andy Chandler, most wanted.

You got to do so many amazing things. I saw you do stand up once at the Hudson Theater. And you did this joke about Robin Williams. And I was wondering if, I don't know the exact joke, but it was something about the quality of life and your fans versus his fans. Do you remember that? Oh, boy. I don't even remember.

When Robin passed away, I kind of like had, I think, not that I blocked myself out from it, but I had so many Robin, you know, because my whole thing was he was so tied into the crowd and people didn't realize, and I know, as a comic, I realized that. So like, for example, one of his shows, he's like saying, oh, he's making, so to me what his problem as a stand-up was that he had to get laughs every second. and so hence forget about the fact that he admits to have taken material

and all this kind of stuff but ultimately he was a very you know to many people he was a very nice guy he was an excellent actor he was a very very funny guy but um

so I make fun of him like one of the things he did was uh he would try something to be fun if it didn't go funny he would switch to something hat so he was making some religious observation on some special

and it wasn't uh Getting a laugh, he goes, but who, what do I know? I'm Episcopalian, that's like Catholic Light. And then he started doing a, he did this a lot, the meter thing. Oh, oh, oh, oh, engaging the audience. So for people, I wish I could remember the actual, well, I think I did them on TV. I don't remember what they are. Did you get something to the effect.

It was a Comedy Central special at the Hudson Theater. And it was something like that you're talking about, your fans versus Robin Williams fans, the average life is it for your fan is it was something like I don't know it was 12 so 55 years like until they die or something or like and then Robin Williams fans live till that 85 b said but the quality of life is just so much better I think that was the punch that you said the quality of life okay that's cool you got it you got it down I kind of have a faint memory of now there's so many lines I've forgotten that I wish uh that wish like I remember that show Tompkins square they had. Of course.

Jeff Ross. Jeff hosted, right? Jeff. Ross. He was one of the hosts, at least one of the season. Oh, I don't remember him hosting. So my joke at the time was a Combe Central figure that the only thing that was missing from stand-up was Depth of Field. So I had so many jokes like that that were based on, like I was a writer at the WB for a couple of years. So, you know, I had a line. I actually submitted when I wrote there. It's like, uh, death is easy. Comedy is hard. At the WB, it's virtually impossible.

And these, all these lines. And of course, I don't need to be a guy at a party recalling them all. So I guess I don't have to aggregate them. What's your favorite moment or moments from being on the set of everybody loves Raymond? You did 27 of them. I think the ones, it was kind of hard sometimes because again I had a lot of my own issues going on so sometimes I felt frustrated like why won't they

you know like because Ray could improv whatever we wanted but it was clear that I could not I was not allowed to improv so I think that I had a lot of weird feelings that now that I see is just like yeah well it wasn't your show and this is the way this is the way it went but that's a small part of

what I learned from that show which is just that you learn I love acting and I love all kinds of acting and you learn the difference of when you actually can, the laughs are coming from the audience and I don't know if they'll ever make a show like that again but it was

it was that incredible combination of stuff I'd done in theater and college and stand up and this it was like amazing because it was the number one show so and also Ray Romano he's not paying me to say this he might be the nicest person on the planet

And people thought we were friends going in. We're not enemies, but we were both in the same young comedian special. But I started in L.A. He was in New York. I had no knowledge of him. I was friendly with Phil, who created the show. No, he's a great guy. Phil Rosenthal is a great guy.

Yeah, great guy. Yeah. And we met for breakfast, and he put me on the show. And Phil had very specific things about what he wanted to see. So I think he was a great director. And the times I, but I think it was just hard. So I was feeling like, oh, I can't be like, like Robin Williams on the show, whatever.

But within that context, I think the episode where I make, where Debra makes something good, and I say, oh, yeah, yeah, you made a thing in work. Oh, it was good because, you know, Raymond at work is like talking, and so I had to go through this.

What was Raymond at Work saying about me? That one was really good because I felt like I got the acting down or I felt good about it. And the other one is a real of fortune. where I'm watching Wheel of Fortune and Ray's trying to bring his office into the home and then just at one point

Ray pushes me in my little rolling chair and that's just like I'm doing a stick now I'm doing actual and also I got to kiss Christine Kavanaugh that was fun too on that one she passed away but what was that one where she I kissed her and it was like a Christmas it was a Christmas show And it was about how, something about, you know,

and at some point I kiss her, and then I walk away like, yeah, yeah, yeah, something like that. That was hilarious. That was really a lot of fun. All the stuff with the guys was fun. They still hold up, which is what Phil was trying to do, like kind of like the honeymooners. He did. And not do topical, and it really does hold up. What was it like doing that sitcom with Bob Saget and not only Bob Saget, but future Oscar winner,

Brie Larson. Well, this is just unbelievable because I, again, had, I have probably made, not specifically making fun of Bob Saggett, but making, I'm sure made fun of the Bob Sacket. I've been friendly recently with Harry Mandel. I used to make fun of Harry Mandel mercilessly. But I had seen Bob, I'd seen him be funny in context. I don't remember. Very dirty he was, but I remember him being very, very funny, and it wasn't the home video thing, and it wasn't the full house. I never even watched the thing in the full house thing. So I was very scared when I got in the show.

It was very, you know, Jonathan Katz, who wrote that, to create that show. I audition for it and I was very excited to get it, but I was always nervous. One time, this is a totally true story, is Jonathan Katz, I'm on the phone with him. And he goes, Andy, I had a very interesting experience today. I drove a woman in the lot from one place to another, and she goes, well, I'm a big fan of yours. And I said to her, would you remain as big a fan of mine if I told you that I have cast, that Bob Sagitt has been cast in the lead role of the show? So it was like, I think everybody going in knew that this was, you know, he was a mainstream kind of guy.

But it was really embraced. And of course, once Bob, you know, after Bob died, I was crushed by it because I, and I was, and had a relationship with him. You know, he came on the shows. I always thought he, I loved him. I thought he was really, and I was with him where he was just incredibly funny in all the wrong ways all day long, you know?

And Bree Lawson couldn't have been a nice, and the thing is, you could not have told from that where I wouldn't have rooted it against her, but I don't think you can tell from that show how great she eventually became, but she was such a sweet person. And then Kat Dennings was on there, too. Kat Dennings and.

It's amazing. Yeah, she's going to be on a new show, and then you have Bree Larsen winning her Oscars. And then Bob's Berger, that pretty much opened you up then to another generation, I'm guessing. Well, here's the thing that's amazing was I did Dr. Katz, which nobody does remember. You did three of them. You did three, I believe, Dr. Katz. And I was friends with Lauren Bouchard working on Dr. Katz. After that show, there was, which nobody remember, most people don't remember now.

And I'm not trying to be like an old guy. I was like, why can't I remember Phil O. T. Farnsworth? But there was a show called Home Movies. And that show, I started to get recognized from a lot. Like, people would find me and they remember my name from that show. So that was another generation, I think, that people who did, you know, and I was only on a couple of those. And then I got the call to be on Bob.

You know, I auditioned for, no, I did the pilot, is what happened. And I thought it was going to be a regular, but Fox was like, you know what, let's keep him a recurring character. We could. Yeah, and you did a lot of them. I've done a lot of them. They're still going, right? Don't scare me.

Yeah, no, no. It's amazing, longevity. And I did it with great. John, I mean, there's no greater voice person than John Benjamin in the world, I think. Oh, yeah, John Benjamin's really funny. He's, yeah, Dr. Katz, whenever people call him eight, I don't know where the age came from. I just know him as John Benjamin, but I know where it came from. Where did it come from?

I would call him John H. Benjamin, too. There was an actor called John Benjamin or something. Oh, is that why he did it? I wasn't sure. He'd do it for a sag, yes. Yeah, that makes sense. Michael J. Fox, Michael, he used to Michael A. Fox, but it had to be there's a Michael Fox, and then there was a Michael A. Fox

so he picks the Jen. But that's exactly where he's done. I'm absolutely sure that maybe I'm wrong. I never asked him, but I'm absolutely sure that he didn't walk around going, uh, and call the H. It's right. Andrew Kinler. I used to do this joke where I said The joke was, Lee Harvey Oswald.

He took the name Lee Harvey Oswald because there was already a Lee Oswald in the Murderers Guild. How often are you getting up these days in L.A.? I'm starting to get up again, but not a lot, not a lot. Why? Because when the pandemics are, I have never had COVID. And my wife and I, and I was like, my wife, you know, like doctors without bone injuries. I'm a Jew without, doctors without borders. you without borders or boundaries because I constantly tell people, I'm 68. Oh, you want to use

me in your show? Did you know I was 68? You know, or I shop my wife in a gluten-free place for my shop for my wife, I'm getting cookies. I can't eat the cookie because I have type 2 diabetes, that kind of thing. How long do you think it's going to take for you to get back to where you you might have been? Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, I will never go back. And that's the thing. I don't want to make it seem sad because I was on the road from, like 30 years like 20 you know exactly for so many weeks i don't miss that and unfortunately or fortunately uh COVID changed everything for me you know I lost you know I have one family I lost a couple of my family member I not from COVID but um well thank you but very at the beginning of

the pandemic and not even from the pandemic so it just made me totally look at my life differently and so uh I don't even though it was fun to go to like the comedy addict in where is it? It's in Bloomington and where Bloomton is just a great club. I'm not that crazy about flying right now. And even people aren't in the business aren't crazy about flying right now. So I plan to do it in New York.

I mean, in L.A. You've been doing it forever. What was it like doing a road gig with Norm MacDonald in Toronto in the late 80s? Can you believe this? I did a road gig with him in Saskatoon with me and my and Brent Butt, who's hilarious, who did corner gas in Canada, we were on the show with

Norm MacDonald. And it's like, I can remember to this day, I was in Winnipeg. I just couldn't believe, what is he saying? He was like, every time he would say the name of something. So that was pretty amazing to get to be, to find someone so hilarious so early. I learned, I met a lot of funny people because I did Western, I did Yuck Yucks in the West of Canada for a few years. That was a big club, yeah.

Yeah, and that guy's like a, there's a little bit of a, I'm not saying he's a, what is it when you say, you can only work for me or you're fired? Oh, yeah, he was really, it was one of those people. Yeah, Mark Breslin. He took a liking to me. He booked the comedians, I believe, when Joan Rivers was doing her Fox TV show. I wouldn't be surprised, yeah. The late show.

Yeah, that's amazing. Andy, Indie Kindler, thanks for doing this. I hope I didn't go on all over and long and too much and interrupt too much because I was such a joy talking to you. Oh, thank you.

This was amazing. I've been really, really grateful. Just, I mean, as a fellow Dave, admire, and somebody that worked at the show and that just watched you so many times and got to see you at the Hudson Theater. This was a thrill, so I'm grateful. Thank you.

I hope you keep in touch more. I'd like that. That would be great. And as soon as, like, Bruce, and do you think you'd be interested? How would I not be interested in this? Good man. Thanks for listening.

Please subscribe so you never miss an episode. On Apple Podcasts, please rate it and leave a review. Be sure to go to late-nighter.com for all your late-night TV news. And you can find my podcast at late-nighter.com forward slash podcasts. Have a wonderful week, and I'll see you next Tuesday. We're going to be. I'm going to be. I'm going to be.

I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to be. And I'm I'm I'm going to be.

I'm going to be. Thank you.