Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Arthur Meyer

Episode Date: October 15, 2024

Arthur Meyer joins Mark to discuss writing for Jimmy Fallon, his favorite SNL episode hosted by Michael Jordan, working with Steve Martin, as a teen writing a letter to Rachel Dratch, & meeting Bill Murray. Follow on IG: @arthurmeyer13 Follow ABC Parenting on IG: @abcparentingadvice Subscribe on YouTube to ABC Parenting: https://www.youtube.com/@abcparenting Subscribe on YouTube to Arthur Meyer: https://www.youtube.com/@arthurmeyer13

Hi, I am Mark Malkoff and welcome to Inside Late Night, presented by Late Nighter.com. Today's guest is Arthur Meyer, who for seven years wrote for Jimmy Fallon on Late Night as well as the Tonight Show. We discussed the song he wrote for Steve Martin, nerd out on our mutual love of Saturday Night Live, and so much more. Now it's time to go inside late night. Arthur Meyer, thanks for talking with us. Thank you, Mark. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited and I'm a big fan of this podcast. Oh, you're so nice. You know, I found it really interesting because I personally do remember the first time I really watched SNL with somebody else where it was contagious laughter and I really gave the show a chance. And ironically, it was also at a sleepover. 95 in May, the season finale is David DeCovny and Rod Stewart. And it's your birthday. You're having a sleepover and you turn on what traditionally is not the strongest. season. No. So you turn it to 1130 and I remember the whole episode. I remember the they did the X-Files Cold Open before. It was even really a huge, I think it was a cult following at

that point. It was the first season, but it wasn't an enormous hit. I remember the whole show, but tell me what impact and what you remember from that night because how impactful. And I mean, I mean, you written for Jimmy Fallon, you audition for SNL. You've done so much. We have so much to talk about and got right for Steve Martin, all these people. But let's take you back to being 11 years old that night. Oh, my God. Wow. I think I just, you know, I had known of S&L. My very first exposure to SNL was that a family friend came over one night. We were having like a Thanksgiving or a Hanukkah party or something in 1992. And SNL had just released their, or they had just done their political episode, because there was an election that year, and they did an election special, which was

kind of, you know, they had written some little interstitial things for Dana Carvey and for, I guess it was probably for mainly for Phil Hartman and Dana Carvey. And I just remember, I was only eight years old, but I watched that videotape over and over. Like, I think they accidentally left the tape there, and I just watched it. And you would think that this eight-year-old kid would not be able to understand these references to Jimmy Carter, you know, Dan Aykroy doing Carter and stuff. But like, all those impressions are so kid-friendly. Like, Dana Carvey being Ross Perrault feels like it's almost aimed at kids or something. They do work on many levels. It's almost like you're watching a bug's bounty. And they would write, put the adult references. And sometimes

in those Warner Brothers cartoons, those early ones just completely over the, when you're a kid watching it and stuff, but they would put those things in. And definitely I can see like the Perot and things like, yeah, working on different levels and stuff. Yeah, I mean, I guess. that speaks to S&L's ability to go broad with things. I think the show is always at its best when it's kind of being both broad and detailed and small specific at the same times. I think of someone like Kristen Wigg, who's especially good at that. But anyway, that videotape I watched over and over. I think the next year I vaguely remember watching a little bit of the Sally Field episode because I have the vagus memory of seeing the Matt Foley Santa Claus sketch. Oh, man,

that was December of 93. That was Sally Field, Tony, Tony, Tony, Tony, Tony. Tony, as you know, we're going to talk about that. Yes. I'm good with my host and my musical guest, but your superpower exceeds mine. We'll talk about that in a little bit. But please continue. So you were watching the Sally Field episode a little bit. You remember that?

Yeah. And so I kind of knew enough about SNL, but I never really stayed up to watch a full episode until, yeah, my 11th birthday, and it was that season finale. I had no clue was the season finale. And I think I just thought that it was such a fun. I don't know. Everything about it just seems so fun. I've always just been so, I think I've loved SNL the way that, like, I loved sports when I was a kid where you just, you have all these different personalities and their energies are bouncing off each other and you don't know if it's

going to be good or bad. I've never been bothered by watching a quote unquote bad era of S&L. There are so many dynamics that are just at play and you just get a chance in every episode to do like 10 or 12 different things. And I just, for whatever reason, I just love it. that. And I think I just thought that that cast was really funny and I was probably young enough to not have any idea that it was maybe on an objective level, a bad season of the show. It is one of those things. If people tuned in, I mean, you wouldn't really know that, you know, two years before and stuff. I mean, it was just, it was a very different show. They had Carvey left by the time you watched Phil Hartman, the season before. Once you removed Robert Smigel and Jack Handy

and all these people from the equation the Turner's Christine Zander smigle alone you're I mean it's going to be the rebuilding any sports team I mean you're going to lose that many

it's going to take a couple seasons and stuff but they still that season and we can talk about this because I don't really don't get to talk to people almost ever anybody that knows the show like you do that season and definitely the writers and the cast weren't working well together

but they were definitely some amazing shows and sketches and I still if you a best of that season, it exceeds a lot of seasons in the last like 20, 25 years in terms of like, I agree, put them in. So the one only real sketch that people I think look back on that really, from that episode that really kind of transcended at, what was it? It was the one with Farley and Sandler, right? When they were doing the food review, they were doing the, it was at Zagetz or Zagots? Is that? Yes, Zaggatz is kind of, yeah, that was a big sketch. And then, you know what, sketches kind of had some staying power in which also the 10 to 1. Yeah, the 10 to 1, which I also I think

might, I feel like I remember Jimmy Fallon saying at one point that this was his favorite or one of his favorite sketches. I think the two sketches I've ever heard him talk about as being his favorite were yes, this one that we'll talk about it a second. And then the what the hell was that one with Steve Martin and Bill Murray from 79. Yeah, I remember Jimmy talking about this one. It's a 10 to 1 and it's, And when you say 10 to 1, it's not always 10 to 1. It's that's with the last sketch. It's like 8 to 1, 5 to 1, yeah. That's back then at least what that slot was.

Yeah, it's, I mean, it's a sketch where, yeah, it's five cast members. They're all playing themselves. It's Chris Farley, Adam Sandler, Norm MacDonald, Tim Meadows, Jay Moore. And they're at the zoo, the Central Park Zoo. And yeah, I forget exactly what happens, but one of them jumps in to the polar bear cage. And then each subsequent friend tries to go. going and rescue the other person. And, you know, and they, yeah, they just keep getting more bloodied. And it's basically just people being stupid. I mean, that's kind of the idea of the sketch is like

stupid people at the zoo. And of course, it has one of my favorite moments in it, which is Chris Farley saying, that polar bear just ripped off Jay Moore's head like so much volleyball. And I don't know. I mean, the sketch kind of dies when you watch it, but I just love it. I just think it's so funny. Norm, I think it's the last one. I remember. Yeah. To me, the symbolism is all these people are not going to be asked back on the show and they're just kind of like.

Yeah, but none of them knew that at the time, though, right? They didn't, but I, you know, I was at the week before, I was, I'll do an episode at some point where explaining on how I was a, I was backstage the week before when Sack had hosted, and I know you have a history with Bob Sagan, and we'll talk, and I talked to one of the writers, and one of the writers was telling me during Dress, he was like, there is no possible way that the show is going to be coming back next year with the people that are here, the writers, and the cast like this. It's never going to happen. And that's when it really hit me that, wow, it's going to, I mean, a lot of those people that I thought would

maybe continue and stuff are going to disappear. That was what he told me. And I was like, oh, gosh. Wow. The weirdest thing to me about that season of the show is that it just feels like the energy is just never there, but sometimes it feels like the episode just starts out that way. Like it almost, you know why? Why? I would say the biggest reason that that season suffered, as opposed to they were still trying to, you know, they lost so many heavy weights and it was going to take them some rebuilding is not getting any standbys or very few into the live show. They let 80 people live now. They let 60 to 80 people eat for dressing live. Back then, I'm telling you, like you watch a train wreck like Sarah Jessica,

Parker and R.A.M., zero got in. That whole season. So you think your theory then, and I think I agree with it, is it's basically that people who are in the standby line, even though they've been waiting, staying up all night to get tickets, are just so excited to see the show that they bring a bigger energy to the show. If you go to the show, if anybody goes to the show, the laughs all come if you're sitting in the bleachers from the worst seats. It's all the way to the right, and those are primarily the standbys. They are the ones that were not vipped into the show that just have a love for the show. And I'm not saying all the VIPs don't.

But when I was going to the show, I mean, oh, my goodness, some of the people that were getting and I would overhear them, and they were not fans, they did not watch the show. And it's just for those performers to have an audience like that. I mean, I have heard like Dana Carvey and I know Rob Schneider and other people said, shows were ruined because of some of those audiences. I'm trying to think of like, I remember getting into standby Bob Newhart that year. And I think that they did. I was there for live. I think they maybe took 15 of us. But it was really rare. You look at the Roseanne Green Day, which was another not good episode. And again, as you were saying, even from the cold open, you feel, and they zero

standby for dress or live. And you just, you feel it from the audience. I mean, it's just, that's what it is. And they will, the show will never, I don't think ever let that happen again. I think it was like 20 years ago when they said, we can't do this anymore. And that's when they started to take a massive. But I guess I guess my question about this is like during the week when they're making these shows that are kind of met with sort of a dead energy by the live audience, do you think they're, is there an energy of excitement? You know, like when they're reading these sketches for the Roseanne episode that will kind of bomb? Like, are they excited at the table? Like, that's the thing that I would. But I, you know what? It's an excellent, it's an excellent question. Because I've definitely, I mean, I do, I'm a firm believer in the fact that whatever energy you're internally feeling when you're creating something is an energy that will be reflected in the audience when they're receiving it, which would lead me to believe that that was a sort of energy that pervaded the show. But then when I've read books like Jay Moore's, you know, gasping for air time, I mean, I remember if you read that book, I don't really remember getting much of a sense that either of those. years that he was on the show were terrible. It's like from that point of view, I remember him talking about people being so excited to see Adam Sandler and it seemed like maybe there was a lot of energy. But I don't know. It's a confusing and interesting couple seasons there. I think the people, the audience was excited for Sandler. I just feel like with not having a Phil Hartman or Dana Carvey, it was tough. But there was definitely not the greatest energy in this studio when I got to get into

the show. I was very, very fortunate to be able to be and witness a lot of stuff. And I mean, I feel like the best part of that season for the audience laughing is when Norm would come out and do his warm up. Norm would do the warm up and then he would call out Chris Farley and they would do some stuff together. Oh, I didn't know that. And then Norm's update was probably the strongest thing. But like, I always loved the show. It was always a fascinating thing. Talking about Bob Sagitt, I know we'll talk about him in a little bit. But like when I was there, they did the cold open that week was a dress rehearsal was the Hank what was it the Hank dipity it's a Tim Hurley he piece where it's like Farley and Sandler and it's Hank and it's like Farley talks like really

really slow and then Sandler is talking really fast like this and it's like this they did it on update a couple times it's Hank Dipity or so that's the one right where Chris Farley goes like well I says to the guy and I shows to him I say yeah that's and then there's a buzzer and they did that as a game show in the cold open and it was like that was the Cold Open? Yeah, they did it as a cold open for the dress rehearsal, and they did that, and it did, it did okay. But then they moved Sandler's commentary from update to the cold open for the live show where he was talking. Right, the, the Valancourt thing, yeah, the Boston Celtics thing. Yeah, so it was always interesting going to the show. Like, for example, like the first show you ever really watched with your friends, a dress rehearsal for Sagitt. They did that Jay Moore as a realtor, a former rock star turned realtor. Right. I think he said in his book, that they had also done that even a few times before that too or at least it was yeah like and it finally made it on as into that that uh there were some sketches that season ian max tone graham wrote this piece i think it finally got in for courtney cots it was like i think they did it four or five times a dress

where it's like it's tim meadows and i think it's an office thing or something and people are like meadows is like keeps denying something no that didn't happen no it didn't happen and then he's like yes yes and then he finally says yes you know what sketch i'm talking about oh yeah Yeah. And I remember, yeah, there was definitely, I remember watching a couple times that, do you, I didn't ever even make air that Farley was doing, he did a video audition, a video resume. He did like a, whether he's singing like, um, Doa deer, a female deer. I don't know. It doesn't ring a bell. They call him in for the interview and then they're playing and just making fun of him. But it was that got to dress a couple times. But, um, yeah, I feel like what it was with Farley and Sandler that season is like, I've read things about. at Seinfeld, they never really like to use Kramer too much in an episode. Like, they like to kind of temper that a little bit. And like Kramer is a special teams kind of guy.

And I feel like I've even heard maybe Downey or someone describe some of those cast members as special teams kind of people like Adam Sandler, David Spitt, like as opposed to a Phil Hartman utility thing. And I just kind of think with your special teams guys coming out on the field and playing the entire game, it's just, you know, they're just, overexposed a little bit, or it's like they lose some of their specialness. You don't want to see them that much, you know? It was definitely a disconnect. It was tough, I think, for the newer people especially. I mean, I feel like the strongest from that season, and tell me what you think.

If we, well, let's just go show to show. We never get to do this. This would be great to do this season. I'm sure we can do a couple of episodes. We start out, and I was there for this one. It was Steve Martin and Clarendon. And for me personally, that cold open, I was, so being there was so excited for the season. I was like, they're back because they do that whole Clinton audition thing, which was so funny. We're all the cast members. That was, yeah, that one. And then the Steve Martin commercial was really, really funny. Those two things. What did you think at that episode? Do you remember? Yeah, I remember those two things sticking out. And then a few sketches were that just felt like emblematic of what the season was. Like there was that they died.

Yeah, there's that one that's like an advertising group or something, you know, some kind of Nutrific. That's what it was. And just almost like too many people in the sketch and just like too thin of a premise or something. That was the sketch that I was like, the seasons in trouble. And you know, anybody that gets hired at that show, it's a huge accomplishment. But the person that wrote that sketch, put that in his sketch packet that season was hired on that sketch is one of the things. So the head people were like red nut rific and like, we have to hire this guy. And I'm so sorry, he's very successful, very, very successful. It's so funny because I feel like that sketch, I feel like there are certain sketches that are emblematic of an entire season or at least of an episode. And that's almost one that I'm like, that is the season. That is the season.

That sketch is the season. And that's not even a total disparagement of it. It's, I feel like a lot of sketches in that season are sketches that on paper, I'm like, oh, yeah, this would be funny. And then you see it on its feet and it's just like, I don't know, energy is just not there. That was a rough episode other than the cold open. Yeah.

That's Steve Martin commercial. I just remember being so, I mean, I was excited to be there and stuff and Norm's first update and all that stuff. But I was just like, oh, goodness, please. By the way, you should do a full episode of just you solo, just recollecting your experiences of the show because I've heard you talk about them on here. And they're all really interesting. At some point, that's very, very nice. But you really should. Like, anytime anyone goes to see the show, you come away with a few stories.

Like, the first show I ever saw in person, I was just a week away from turning 21, and it was Johnny Knoxville hosted the episode. So it was like 2005. And the main, there's a couple of things I remember from it. But one thing was that I was one of like about 10 people led into the standby group. You know, we waited all night. This is for dress or for air? This is for air.

Wow. I think we got to choose whether we did dress or air. And I knew how excited I would be to see a dress rehearsal of S&L because you would get more stuff. But I was like, this might be the only time I'll ever see the show live. Who knows? So I'm just going to like go for it. And I remember it was Jason Sudecass's first episode, formerly as a featured player. It was the third to last episode of the season, May 7th, 2005 musical guest system of a down.

And I recognized him because I was a huge S&L fan. So I would see him in the monologue, you know. because he would have writers be audience plans and stuff. So he's about to go out there for his very first sketch on the show. It's the first sketch after update. And he's taking his place. Can I ask you real quick? Is he a waiter?

That's my recollection. I'm probably completely wrong. Is it a restaurant sketch? It's a restaurant sketch. He is, it's like a Mother's Day thing. So he and someone who plays his brother, maybe Rob Riggle, I want to say, are like out with their mom. Is that what I was? I just remember a restaurant.

Please continue. Yes. No, you're right. Yeah, it was that restaurant sketch. And during the commercial break, he's like looking around the studio, just taking it all in. And he and I, for the briefest moment, make eye contact. I'm looking down at him from that top area of the bleachers that you were describing. And I give him like a double thumbs up and I'm smiling. And he just looks back up at me so confused as to like why anyone would know who he is. You know, was my interpretation of it. So we just gave me this quick look of what? And then he like went on with the sketch. That's really, really funny. And then the other thing I remember was I took my phone out at one point during a commercial very, like, covertly. And my phone was on mute and everything. I just took it out just to like really quickly check the time. And I was so subtle about it.

And this, again, during the commercial break. And then suddenly a security guard comes over to me and just goes, what the fuck did you just do? And I go, oh, I was checking. I was checking. And he goes, you do that again. I'll beat the fucking shit out of you. And that like, I was so scared for the rest of the episode. You go to the show. Who was doing warm up at the time? You know what? We were brought in there

very soon before the show. So I actually, yeah, I don't, I had been to later shows, including, by the way, the second Donald Trump show. So I've seen other warmups. But that one, we just, I think, Don Pardo at the very end, maybe. That is a really good point. And yes, people when they would do dress rehearsal sometimes would get up there very, very late in the game. And it was one of those things where, I mean, there was so much tension down in the lobby. I mean, it was one of those things where the page desk phone would ring and it'd be like, yes, and it would be how many people they were going to take up. And these are some of these people are out of town. I mean, were you from out of town from Illinois at the time, or were you from Boston, from college or from where

you grew up in Illinois when you saw the show? I was a junior at Boston University, so my friend and I took... Okay, so you're coming from Boston, okay, but these are people all over the place that are just want to see the show, and I was there. I would always be able to get up myself up. I was very fortunate, but there would be, I saw it so many times. They're like, we can't take anybody for dress and just like, oh, my goodness. Wow.

For those people, oh, it's terrible. You know, it was one of the coolest things was when I was at Fallon, there was a guy who worked there who worked also at S&L and he he gave yeah John McDonald and he gave me um access to like the SNL server with all the old dress rehearsals on it going back to like 1985 yeah John McDonald's good guy um I haven't talked to him quite a while yeah he's a good dude that's who um I kind of figured it was that must have been amazing to go back and watch some of those dresses I mean I would oh yeah I can watch the most fascinating thing to me the sketches don't bomb anymore because they have the standbys and they just almost never tank and seeing like the first sketch after a

monologue sometimes when they just do not do well and then I want to go yeah and watch the dress and be like did people really laugh at this and inevitably they had to I mean I'm sure it did yeah no I remember there's there's one specifically I remember maybe hearing came up in an interview or something but it was I feel like it was maybe an Adam McKay sketch or something and I think it was the Rob Lowe episode from 97 and it's something about a doctor's office and a sandwich and I can't remember. I wish I could remember the premise better, but I do remember it was like the first sketch in dress rehearsal, first sketch after the monologue and it just completely died. And it was the sort of sketch where like if the audience was on the side of the sketch from the beginning,

I could see it killing. But there was nothing in the sketch that won them over. So yeah, it is fascinating to go back to old episodes and see how they switched around the lineup. or just watch like now classic sketches and see them do like mediocre address like good enough to stay in the show? I could be off on this. I just remember the Bob Sagget dress. It was one of the last sketches. It might have been the last of the night. They did that whole thing with Bob Sagitt as as a coach. Was he a high school track coach or something about that? My recollection, it was one of the last sketches of the night and then they moved it up because it did the best. But for something like that, the last sketch of the night to be moved up and to get laughs is extremely rare. And it's

extremely hard. Famously, Molly Shannon, when she did marry to Catherine Gallagher with Gabriel Byrne, that was the last sketch of dress. Because when I would go to the dress, the last sketch, almost always when I saw it, the energy was just, oh, it was, it usually just never did well. Wow. But for Molly, for something like that to actually do well, it's just a testament of her ability. And, you know, just once in a while, I guess if the energy is strong enough. I believe that the Kate McKinnon Close Encounter sketch

the first time that they did that, I don't know where it was in the lineup of the show, but I do remember hearing something about like it was the very last sketch at table or something. That is extremely hard. I remember when I was at Will Ferrell's

first show and Sherry O'Terry and the audience still didn't understand who Will Ferrell was in the... You were at that show? Oh, yeah, I can tell you. I was at Dress and Live. I can tell you, I could do a few episodes about what I witnessed

and everything that I saw. I mean, it was, it was pretty wild. Wow. The last sketch they did at dress was Will is Aquaman. It was a Dennis McNicholas piece. And he was just an aquaman being a jerk. Oh, yeah. Was he like at a restaurant or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was kind of a jerk. And it just, it just, it was just, it was so hard for those audience members to be there and see all these people, they did not know who they were. These six new people, even the Brewer, Brewer was in one. He had his own sketched dress that did not it got nothing and that didn't make the air what was that one it was the sketch where he's in a store and i think it's got he he he's talked about it before i think it's he calls it the shut up guy oh yeah i think it eventually made it but oh my goodness yeah it just

complete silence i mean that there were a couple sketches that didn't do well and i think i've talked about it was the sherry o terry dana she did a sketch at the groundlands where she played it was a prom They moved it to the show number two with Chevy Chase the following week. But that tanked pretty hard addressed. I sort of personally think that that whole season was actually one of the better ones in the history of S&L. In terms of the writing, in terms of they were the writing, I would agree. And then the next season after that, some of those pieces like the Blame game, which was a Colin Quinn piece, which was really funny. A lot of those, you didn't see those pieces as much the following season.

I agree. Yeah, it felt like that next season they started really leaning into their recap. current characters and stuff. Oh, it was groundlings. It was basically, it was just a groundling's blueprint. Very groundlings. It's just different. Yeah. And you still had that that season with Steve Corrin and you still had Fred Wolfe still had some of the people that were writing sketches. Yeah, you had a good, good crossover. I have to ask you, did you ever meet Jim Downey? Because you guys are from the same place, right, in Illinois? Oh, you know what? I know he's from Illinois, but I forget where he's from there. Oh, he's from Juliet, I think, and you're from where? Yes, he's

from Joliet. I'm from Wilmot, which is where Bill Murray is from. And I went to high school with Beck Bennett and Fran Gillespie, who wrote at the show. Wow, of course. Did you talk to, um, did you ever met Murray and talk to him about this? Okay, yeah. So I have a, I have a funny Bill Murray and a funny James Downey thing. The Bill Murray thing. So actually, I'll start with the Jim Downey thing. The Jim Downey thing was Jimmy was invited to speak or he was like the guest of honor at some Harvard hasty pudding or something. Some award that they get that they've only given to like 10 comedians ever, but Jimmy was being honored. This is like 2015, I think. Yeah. And we got to go inside this like, you know, mysterious Harvard castle where they do all their writing at the

lampoon. And it's supposed to be really kept under reps and stuff. And it was such a cool night because Jim Downey was there at some point. Jim showed up. Everyone was wearing like suits or tuxitos or something. And I just went up to Jim and I was like, you know, I think you're such an influential sketch writer to me. Thank you. And somehow we got on the topic of his old Hercules sketch that he wrote for the Bill Murray episode, the Bill Murray Percy Sledge one from 87. And he was able to quote back verbatim that entire sketch word for word. And it didn't feel like a thing of like that he was super into himself. It just feels like, oh, this is the kind of like brain that this guy has. And I just remember it was such a thrill to talk to him. And then the Bill Murray thing, and I don't even

know if I've told you this, Mark, but I bet you'll, you might find this intro. Oh, maybe I have told you this. I was at the, maybe I, yeah, I was at the 40th S&L's show because I had helped Jimmy work on his, like, write his opening sketch that he did with Justin Timberlake for the show. Yes, you were at Fallon at that point. You were a writer at Jimmy Fallon for, you were there for seven years? Yeah, and at that point, I had been there for three years. And Jimmy was well aware of how obsessed with SNL I was. I think all he knew is that his opening sketch, he wanted it to somehow be very heavily about the history of the show. So I was invited in to help him. And it was a couple other writers, Mike DeSenzo, who now writes for SNL was there, Gerard Bradford, A.D. Miles,

me, Jimmy. And I was sitting across from Justin Timberlake and next to Paula Pell. And I remember being starstruck by Paul O'Pell more so than Justin Timberlake. But it was a great. great energy in the room. I maybe contributed two lines to that sketch. And then Steve Higgins invited me to be a seat filler for the 40th anniversary. I was like, yes, of course. Of course I'll do that. And then I went to the party afterwards. And at one point, and this must have been like at least three in the morning or something. I see Bill Murray sitting at a table. And I'm like, I know he's not considered the warmest person, but I'm like, we're from the same town. We're both huge Chicago Cubs fans.

So I went up to him and I was like, excuse me, Bill. I'm so, like, he also looked like he was in a conversation he didn't really want to be in. So I kind of like, I was like, excuse me, Bill, I'm so sorry. I just want to say, I'm from Wilmot. I'm a huge Cubs fan. And I think you're so funny. And he looked at me and he just goes, here, follow me. And we're like walking through different rooms and past all these people,

some of whom are trying to like flag him down. And he just leads me to the dance floor and starts dancing. Did he talk to you about Illinois at all or not really? no we didn't talk he just he was really nice about that and then i think he just kind of felt like you know let's i'm going to be nice to this guy and have him join me on the dance floor and yeah so that that was but i'm sure he probably did i'm sure he didn't feel like being in a conversation with someone who's just going to gush over him which is what i spent most of the night doing i mean i went up to here's another crazy story is my best friend dan klein who's a great comedy writer who's written for a bunch

shows and he lives out in L.A. He and I met each other our freshman year of BU. Jim Brewer and Tracy Morgan were doing a stand-up show at BU. And Dan and I both got in line like four hours early, assuming that there would be a huge line. We were the first two people there. And it dawned on us at like 10 minutes in that like no one was going to come for another couple hours. So that was how we started talking to each other. And we ended up becoming best friends. And we sat in the front row of that concert. And it was amazing. So cut to 12 years later, it's the S&L 40th. And I see Jim Brewer backstage at the party and I go up to him and I'm like, excuse me, Jim, and I told him that story. I'm like, I met my best friend being in line at one of your concerts and he just

was like, you know, reacted as you would imagine Jim Brewer would. He was just like, oh my God, dude, this fucking insane. Like, it was so cool. I'm really glad that you got that. Yeah, he was always very nice when I was over there. He was. Yeah, I think he's really funny. I mean, obviously he's one of those, that weird breed of S&L cast members that has taken like a hard right political turn. But I'll, I'll stand by and saying that I think he's very, very funny. It's one of those things with Brewer, and he's talked about it a little bit, is I feel like, you know, Seth Myers was saying the best advice he got from Mike Shoemaker was, when you're upset with somebody at the show, just don't say anything.

And you'll probably be at their wedding in like 10 years or whatever. And there's, I mean, Lauren Michaels has basically said almost everybody there that's a cast member and probably a writer has a case why it is, it isn't fair. Like every week, things aren't fair. And they just how it is. But definitely, I think, you know, I know he had a problem with Chris Katan and he was very vocal about it. And I know he's mentioned Adam McKay got in the mix. And when Adam McKay is the head writer or somebody that you, you just don't want to upset them where I feel he probably would have stayed a little bit. longer if that didn't happen. I think so too. And I feel like I've heard him talk about that. And you know, you just at these places, I mean, this is certainly my experience at Fallon, where sometimes you would get so emotionally invested in stuff because you're putting time into it. And when you're doing comedy, your identity is intertwined with the work that you do. So it's not just, am I doing good or bad at my job? It feels like it's a comment on you as a person. So there are things now that I cared so much about when I was a writer at Falun that now I look back on it. And I'm just

like, that wasn't that big of a deal. Why did I allow there to be, you know, this tension and stuff? You know, it just didn't need to happen. But like you, you, when you're in it, it's harder to see it, you know. I was talking to a former SNL person and they were telling me it was years later and they were all together. And I go, I can't believe we overreacted so much on so many things. And so many overreactions, yeah. It was, it's definitely tough. And, you know, was tough, I think also because, and Adam McKay's talked about this before. He, I mean, he said, I had, you know, yes, they asked me what I thought about Brewer. And he definitely, you know, said, you know, he had a good run. And but McKay's whole position was I had nothing to do. I mean,

it's Lauren's show. But at the same time, the reason that they went around the room is, I mean, allegedly Brewer's manager, Barry Katz said that he got a phone call from Lauren and said it was one of the hardest decisions to not have Jim come back, but he couldn't get the support. at the writing room. That's what what Lauren said. And I mean, Brewer was one of those people. He would admit it. Like a lot of people, there are people over there. Brewer could not write sketch comedy. He said that before. Once Fred Wolf and Steve Corrin left, he said he just, it was tough. I mean, Hugh Fink wrote some really funny stuff for him. Steve Corrin saved him with the Joe Pesci. I was there the first time he did it at dress. And I was like, wow. Oh, I didn't realize. I mean, I assume that

there was another writer on it. I don't think I knew who the writer was. But that's, oh, Steve Gordon saved his complete SNL career. I was there to Anthony Edwards and was it Foo Fighters in December of that year. And I was like, oh, wow. I mean, that was the first thing I saw him do. He did an update commentary, which did well.

But, I mean, Brewer would get the biggest laughs of anybody at the warmup. He would do the warm up and get killed with his stand-up. It feels like SNL has always had someone who's like one of those funniest person in the room kind of guys. Like, you know, you imagine that Chris Farley also is probably

not the best sketch writer. Oh, he couldn't do it. I mean, there's so, most of the cast can't do it. I mean, it's a very specialized skill. There are cast members who are writers and, you know, have an author vibe to them. You think of someone like Will Forte or Fred Armis or something. And then there are cast members who are just extremely funny. And if you just have a writer there who knows how to channel their talents, you know, then it works out. I think so. I mean, Steve Corrin was really good at that with Molly Shannon with Mary Catherine Gallagher. I mean, she had the character. Yeah. It's just putting that some sort of structure together and, um, and getting to people and together that really vibe.

Totally. That was definitely, um, that whole season, um, with, with the new cast was interesting, just seeing the progression of it. But I thought that they did some really, really funny sketches. Like that elevate, the David Schwimmer show, I was there for the dress as well. Love that sketch. The elevator thing. I think that was Steve Corrin as well. And sketches like that, they would not get in the season after or the season after that, especially early on on the show. They were not doing sketches like that. It was just a completely different approach to sketch comedy writing or the stuff that was getting on.

Yeah. I think I have such a soft spot in my heart for that approach to sketch comedy, too, rather than I feel like obviously Tina Fey is incredible, but her era of S&L when she was head writer was not my favorite era because it kind of felt like just about every sketch was like, person hosting this talk show or this character, so many shows being hosted in so many like countless parodies of like MTV and VH1 that I just don't care about. Like I think Downey might have even talked about in one of the books where he's like, those things already are parodies of themselves. Like they know, those shows know that they're stupid. You know, we don't need

SNL to point it out, you know? I remember talking a smigle and I hope he's okay with me saying this where it was that thing where it's like you knew it was going to be a Wayne's World thing where they would so much of the show was just people looking into the camera hosting something and it was just right it was extremely predictable that's why i always said when sylvester stalone came to host the show and that sketch i think it was right after the monologue or close when they did that whole car accident thing with norm mcdonald wrote that with adam mackay it was um making fun of the stilones just being in bad movies and nor he hits norm or he's trying to save norm from like a car wreck and stuff. And it was such a funny concept piece. And those are the type of things that were not

traditionally getting on the show at the time. And once in a while, it would happen and I'd be shocked. Those are so many of the sketches that I look back on when I think of like my favorite SNL sketches. I mean, sometimes there's one of those. There's like a show sketch. Like I think of like the Hulk Hogan talk show sketch. But like, oh, that was very funny. I remember I was there for that one too. Yeah. Yeah. That's also was the Anthony Edwards episode. But even even a sketch like that, it's not really like I'm a character I'm hosting like that's kind of a conceptual idea I mean that's so funny it's it's the whole Cogan talk show and there's like a one minute opening intro song it's the hulk Hogan talk show and it's just so complicated and then it just cuts to Will Ferrell and he goes

Hulk Hogan is on vacation I'm your guest host Phil Tobin it was that was either Colin quinn or Adam McKay I forget who wrote that you might know I think it was I think it was McKay and part of the reason I think so is because one of the names in that sketch is Dr. Neil Flynn. And I think Neil Flynn was in an improv thing with Adam McCain in Chicago. Yeah, he was a Chicago Second City guy. I saw him perform at the ETC and then he went on to do with scrubs, right? I never really wanted to the show, but he was on scrub. I didn't either. But yeah, he was totally on there. Yeah, Neil Flynn's a very funny man. So, yeah, you're right. You could tell sometimes, I remember by the, like, David Spabe when he would write, there was somebody, I knew somebody I was friends with somebody of a brother that

spade and he would, sometimes he would throw in somebody's name and I could be like, oh, I knew this spade for it had something to do with this. Wow. They would throw in certain names. That's so cool. Your favorite show of all time was the Michael Jordan Public Enemy. Yeah. See, this is, it's very rare

for somebody a little bit younger, your age, because normally they always gravitate to whatever they watched the show in high school and they do not know any of the other cast previously. So the whole misnomer about whatever people watch in high school as their favorite cast because they don't know the other cast. But in terms of

that episode, it was very, very strong. What about that show got you, really affected you so much? Oh, that's such a good question. I just feel like it was one of those shows where everything was working. I don't, you know, there were so many great sketches from that episode, some of which are now considered classics, like you had your daily affirmations with Stuart Smalley, the one with Michael Jordan. That was the best one. That was, even Tom, Tom Davis told me he hated Stuart Smalley, but that thing, what that was the one. Wow. Tom was like, that was genius. And it was, of that, I thought that that was just unbelievable that sketch. That was unbelievable. And then they had the super fans, that sketch is probably the best installment of that. Possibly. I mean,

I mean, it's the one where Chris Farley does his dance at the end. Yeah, smigle is all over the place. I mean, it smuggles all over that episode. Even in bits that you can't tell if he wrote it or not, like the first Black Harlem Globetrotter, like, was that a smigel? It feels like a. That was Smigel. And then Schmitz-Gay.

I know Smigel at least. Yeah, Schmitz-Gay, which is, yeah, Schmitz-Gay, like, so those are like four classic sketches. And I would say the first Black Harlem Globetrotter, that's, that's even like an under-the-radar classic, but, you know, they used to rerun it on the sports episode, the sports extras episodes they would do. But then on top of that, you have like a great monologue from Michael Jordan where they're showing a few commercials that he did for like, you know, a feminine hygiene product. And it was great. The whole joke was that he would do, I mean, he was doing underwear commercial. I mean,

it was basically these are some things I actually said no to. And yeah, they did some pre tapes and it absolutely killed. It just felt like a great. instance of writing for a host really well. I think that they, I love when SNL can figure out how to write for a host. So much of my job at Fallon would be like you would write stuff for guests and just be like, well, what are they really, how do you want to see, how do you want to see this person? And with Michael Jordan, it's like, he's not going to be able to do any comedic heavy lifting, but he can totally play himself in a sketch. You can totally shoot a thing that's a commercial and he's familiar with how commercials are. And it's like, I just think that it was an

expertly written episode. And then on top of that, public enemy was great. They did Can't Trust it, which was an amazing performance. And then, and probably one of my all-time favorite musical performances on the show. And then they had Reverend Jesse Jackson a weekend update reading Green Eggs and Ham. Like, it's like, there's like, there were like eight things in an episode that are like perfect. In terms of music, that was Miles Davis, right? That they did that kind of like a little trip. Yeah, well, Miles Davis had, yes, he had just died. So they did, they had a moment of silence for him. I want to also mention that the cold open, the Wayne's World killed. And again, the thing about Wayne's World that I really liked how it evolved is it became a device for the most part topical humor. And you were watching a sketch you might have seen before, but the writing was very fresh and funny in the topic. The audience was in a frenzy on that cold open and just the whole show. The only sketch I really am having trouble remembering was Tales from the Barbecue. They did a,

that I don't. Yeah, that one I don't even remember that well, but like, even just thinking about it, it's kind of funny. Like, I always love Tim Meadows. He plays a grandpa and he's tell he's barbecuing. They did it a couple times. Yeah, and it's, you know, there's something that tickles me about it, even though, yeah, I can't remember that one super well. Yeah, but they did NatX. It was a really, really solid show. Oh, right, NatX. Yeah, Ellen Cleghorn's for show. Yeah. I feel like that season, the actor, uh, Tofer Grace, wrote a piece or did something where he said he thought that that season was the best in the history of the show. And I, in terms of the writing, if we go show to show, I mean, it was,

it was an amazing. I mean, that was the season where they did the Steve Martin cold open, the whole Broadway number. Which is my all-time favorite S&L sketch. Yes. And you got to, and you wrote a piece for Steve Martin for Fallon of song, which we'll talk about in a little bit. But the McCollie Culkin cold open was so funny when they did that home one. Yeah, that piece is great. Massive head wound, Harry was that season. Yes, so many, so many sketches in that season had, I feel like every season has like a flavor to it or something.

And a sketch like that feels like the 91, 92 season. Like a sketch like another one from that season that really feels like that season is stand up and win from the Jerry Seinfeld episode. That episode was one of the best episodes they ever did. I agree. I agree. That's another great episode. Yeah, I used to kind of go back and forth

between whether that was the best season of S&L or the following season, which I also thought was really good. But I mean, just some of those sketches from 91, 92 or so just sharpen. Yeah, 92, 93 has some great ones too. The Jerry Seinfeld thing,

that whole Elijah the prophet sketch was so... That's a great one. Jerry in the classroom is like... Oh man, the Turner's wrote that. That to me is like a lesson in sketch comedy writing. I mean, it's such a brilliant sketch. Yeah, totally. And I remember the cold open. I don't, it was definitely a Clinton cold open. I think with Jerry Brown. Yeah, Dana Carvey is Jerry, Jerry Brown. This is, okay, this is my recollection going a long time ago, and I don't know if this is,

this is the conversation. I had talked to one of somebody who was on the writing for that sketch. And I would never have guessed that these three people wrote that sketch. I would have said Al Franken and Jim Downey. But the people that I was told that wrote it, Ian McStone Graham, Rob Schneider, Jack Handy, or the three that I was told, which I don't, I have to email Smigel and be like, can you look this up on the database to see if this is accurate?

But I'm not going to mention, but one of those three people told me that the three of them worked on it. I would be so curious to get a list of sketches that Jack Handy wrote that don't obviously seem like Jack Handy sketches, because I feel like so many sketches from that era you can tell that they were jack handy sketches and there aren't a ton of writers at SNL that have that where you're like

oh this is a jack handy one but a jack handy sketch you would know if it was a jack handy sketch but he was like a head writer of the show wasn't he and like he was a producer for um yeah he was a head he was there for um a producer credit and um i just love the fact that he would not do topical stuff for the most part he'd me too he wrote that killer kirsty alley um tom petty the cold open where it's like Chris Rock says it's the only time he gets to say

live from New York at Saturday night and it's the whole Anita Hill hearing and Jack Handy wrote that cold open and it's all the senators oh right yes from 91 yes oh Jack Handy wrote that yeah I would have been certain that that was Al Franken but wow that's amazing oh I I thought for sure it would have been Franken and it would have been Franken downy right yeah once in a while Here's a funny, I just, just so I want to make sure I'd tell this story when I was, I wrote a sketch for Steve Martin on Fallon and, you know, at one point, because the sketch that we were doing, I would say it wasn't my idea, but it was definitely kind of reminiscent

of that cold, that amazing cold open, not going to phone it in tonight sketch. And the sketch that we were doing with Steve involved a pre-tape. And at one point, there was like five minutes of downtime where we had to move to like a new location within the building. And so it's just Steve was just sitting there. He didn't really have anything to do. He was just sitting there. And he, you know, we had been talking already because I was the writer working on it. And I went up to him and I was just like, and I even already kind of knew that he's not a big fan of like talking about his stuff or people gushing over him. But I felt comfortable enough to do it because I wrote the piece. I was like, oh, by the way, I just want to tell you that my all time favorite SNL sketch, which I've seen at least 200 times is the not going to phone it in Tonight song. And Steve Martin was like, He seemed a little, he's like, what? And I'm like, yeah, the one where you're like singing with the cast. And he's like, oh, yes.

Yes, I don't really ever go back and watch things I've done. His only time ever seeing that sketch was when he was in it. That was such an amazing sketch. And so what was that like? I've only met Steve Martin once and he was, well, I've been around him a couple other times. But the one time I really had a conversation, he was extremely nice to me. But just the fact that you, what's the process? Do you email his representative, this sketch and be like, do you want to work on this?

Or is somebody at the talent department at Fallon take care of that and pitch it to him? Or how does that work? The way it works at the show is you pitch sketch ideas to, you know, for if the guest is coming on, you'll pitch ideas to the head writer or the supervising writer, which eventually I did that at Fallon for my last three years there. I was a supervising writer. And then they'll put a list together of ideas. goes into Jimmy and Jimmy will pick one or two or three or whatever that is someone from the

talent department will then send to the representatives of the guest. And then the guest rep will show the ideas them and then you'll either be like, yeah, they want to do this or they're up for either one. It's your call. I think that was the only idea that was pitched to Steve Martin for that appearance that he did. And he pretty quickly said yes to it. What I remember about him vividly is that he was the most prepared guest that we ever had in the history of that show, at least that I ever saw.

Here's what I remember. The sketch had a pre-tape element to it and a live element. The pre-tape element was going to tape on a Friday and the live element was going to be for his appearance on the show, which was going to be three days later on Monday. It was like that Tuesday of that week,

so three days before the pre-tape, I'm just doing my regular work in the morning. And Steve's and Maria Pope, who used to work at Letterman, who was the segment producer for Steve, because she had now moved to Fallon. She was like, do you have a few minutes? Steve wants to talk to you, to the writer. I mean, it wasn't like Steve wants to talk to Arthur.

It was like, Steve wants to talk to whoever wrote the sketch. And it was like a Tuesday morning at like 11 a.m. I dropped everything I did, you know, gave them a call as soon as possible. You know, and then next thing, you know, I'm talking with Steve. It's just me and him on the phone. And it's a whole song. The whole song, the idea of the sketch is, that he's done so many talk show appearances over the years that he's out of anecdotes.

He has nothing left to talk about. So the song is like, I don't want to do the show. And he was asking me how the melody was going. And I'd sing it for him. And he goes, oh, you know, I was kind of thinking it would maybe go a little bit more like this. And he's saying it. And I was like, yeah, that's great.

And he goes, but, you know, hearing you sing it, I think I like your way a little better. Like, that was the other amazing thing about him was he had no ego. in it. At least not that I could tell. His only concern was being as prepared as he could for the piece and making it as funny as he possibly could. And it was just extremely unusual for a guest to do anything like even a day before because they're just on these press tours just promoting their stuff. So like it would be rare for a guest to even want to be prepared by like a single day, let alone three days. And then he shows up a half hour early on the day of the shoot. And he meticulously goes over the entire song with me. And then during the shooting of the pre-tape,

he's totally open to any ideas I have. He's constantly asking, like, was that okay, perform? Like, he really, he did not want anyone to stroke his ego. He just wanted it to be the best that it could be. And then for the live show, you know, he just nailed that. But it's just, you know, you feel so out of place saying anything to Steve Martin. But just because he wants it that much, you are inclined to give it to him. And that was like, that was what I learned from a lot of my comedy idols at Fallon. They would all be really cool people. So like, I wrote a sketch for Dana Carvey and Robert Smigel. Robert Smigel was in the sketch. And I remember asking my friend Michael Coleman, who's a former Conan writer. I was like, Comen had worked with, Coimann had worked with,

sorry, with Smigel a bunch before. And I said to Comin, you know, what should I expect from Robert Smigel? And he goes, he's everything you want him to be. And, more. And that was exactly what it was. He was so easy to talk to. At one point I said, like when I first saw him, I was like, oh my God, you did Hank Fielding, like as a joke, because it was a character that he did like twice on the show that I doubt anyone except a rabbit SNL fan would remember. And he laughed at that. It was embarrassed. And then working with him, he also was just intent on making the sketch as funny as possible. And I remember the most exciting moment for me was at one point

there was like a line that we were going to rewrite because it just didn't feel quite funny enough and we needed to think of a specific name like of a famous person and I said Pete Buttigieg. I was like, what about Pete Buttigieg? And Smigl looks at me and he was like, I was just about to say Pete Buttigieg and I remember like, that is the coolest thing

that I had like a little mind meld with this guy. What was the piece that you wrote for him and Carvey? It was a piece called Legends, which I'm sure it's probably on YouTube if you looked at it, but it's basically, I think it was initially conceived for Adam Sandler. It was kind of that, oh, you are, you are, you know, that kind of, you know, that smigel Sandler. Oh, no, no, no. Oh. And it was kind of like Jimmy and, it was going to be Jimmy and Sandler going back and forth saying, oh, you are the legend. You, you eat skittles and poop rainbows and poop skittles and then you eat those skittles and poop poop. And just like basically

constantly complimenting the other person on how much. much of a legend there. Sandler was going to do it, but then passed. Justin Timberlake was going to do it, but then he got sick the day before the show, and he lost his voice. And then we pitched it to Dana Carvey, who did do it. The sketch didn't quite turn out like I wanted to. Like, I think that there were some, it's, it's not, it's, it's fine. I would say it's passable. But I remember shooting it, it was like 16 minutes. The sketch on paper was probably five minutes. When we did the sketch in the studio that day. There was so much improv and ad living that it was 16 minutes long. But Smigel was in it. It was amazing. For example, like the Steve Martin piece that you wrote,

the music piece, did Steve Martin want to see that and give edit notes? Or was he just like, I'm going to film this and then you all do whatever you want with the piece? Yeah, I don't think he had any edit notes. I think he was just, he did it. And I mean, I think I went up to him in his dressing room afterwards, and I said great job with that. And he said, thank you. And he was like, you know, just make sure that it looks okay in the edit. So I think he just, and I do remember he was a little bit disappointed with, I remember he thought, and I think rightfully so, it actually was a bad audience that night. Uh, so he was like, they should have been laughing more. I mean, they laughed fine at it, but I remember he was like, I'll trust see you on this,

you know? Some of those audiences, oh, I mean, I used to, when I worked at late night, I was in the audience department for some of it. The studio audiences would have no idea. And they'd be bad even before the host came out, their energy from the get-go, it's just they have no idea how much that would hurt the host and the energy and the performers and stuff. Oh, totally. Yeah, it's palpable. Did that happen that much with Fallon with you got a bad audience? No, actually not much. I kind of feel like the show had a sort of safety net aspect to it of just like, you know, there's going to be jokes in the monologue that hit certain rhythms that are kind of guaranteed to get laughs, like whether or not they're actually that funny, you know, like, I feel like it was pretty

rare that we would have bad audiences, although I remember once the person who was supposed to do warm up for our, because we would do monologue rehearsals with like an audience that was about a third the size of the full studio audience. So Jimmy would run through the, you know, like a monologue that was about one and a half times the size of the final monologue. And yeah, so for rehearsal one day the usual warm-up person was sick and I was asked to fill in and that was the deadest the audience has ever. I did such a bad job warming up the audience. Seth Herzog had been doing that though for years and he had it down where he could do it in his sleep and he knew the beats to hit without. I mean, he could phone that thing in and it would work. But it's one of those

things where that warm up when somebody's starting fresh, it takes them a while to get there. Yeah. I never understood how hard it was until I did that. I did do it one other time when Jimmy was just running late to the studio. So they just needed me to just, they needed someone to do something for like 10 minutes. And so I just was kind of talking off the top of my head. That one actually went really well. But, but yeah, no, I mean, the funnier one was definitely one. I completely sapped to the audience of their energy. And I don't even remember what I did. I just remember like it was noticeable. Like Jimmy in the rehearsal turned to some people on the side. It was just like, what's going on? That was only for the monologue rehearsal, though. That wasn't for the actual show, though, right? No, I mean, sometimes they would do a sketch, like if there was a sketch that involved,

I think a lot of political sketches that they would do at the show, they would actually tape those in front of the monologue rehearsal audience, but then show it to the live audience. So sometimes they would do that with sketches on the show or like anything that was super elaborate and involved, they would do that because it would just take too long to, like, set it up during the show. Because that's another, you know, that's another thing that you run the risk of is, like, when you're setting something up, you know, it can take like 10 or 15 minutes and then the audience

doesn't have energy for the sketch. So, you know, we used to do the sketch that I wrote. This is my favorite thing on Fallon. It was called First Drafts of Rock. That was very funny. The one with Kevin Bacon and the Tom Petty Free Fallen thing. I really liked. Yeah, yes. And we did that like nine times or something, most of which were with Kevin Bacon. And that was one that took a long time to set up and to get the set ready and to get people in the costumes and everything. But it just felt so like it needed to be done live. Like you just needed the live energy of the audience there. That was always a tough thing about that shows. Like sometimes to just get a sketch ready, you need to do a stop down for like

10 or 15 minutes. Can you explain for the audience what the premise was for this recurring bit? Yeah, so first drafts of rock It's a really simple idea You take a really famous rock song And you see Jimmy and usually Kevin Bacon perform the original draft of that song So the first one we ever did Was for old time rock and roll

That one was just Just take those old records off the shelf Then put those records back on the shelf Then take those records take them off the shelf And then those records put them back on the shelf and just repeating that for three minutes. We did one for Fun, Fun, Fun by the Beach Boys that was entirely about the hamburger stand.

It's usually just extrapolating something from the first lyric of the song. So the one we did with where Kevin Bacon played Tom Petty was Free Fallen. And there's a line in the first couple of lyrics of the song where it's like, she loves horses and America too. So we just made the first draft that song be entirely about how much this girl loves horses.

You know, we did a kink song, Lola, where it's just everything is rhyming with Lola. You just kind of take, like, the thing that most sticks out from a song and just keep doing that. I think my sense of humor, if you were to distill, it would just be dumb, simple, musical, and just keeps going on and on, which I feel like I once heard Jim Downey talk about his love of over-explaining things in sketches. and there's just about nothing that I like more than that. And it's just saying more than you need to, just like I am in this answer to your question.

Two more questions. I mentioned Bob Saggett. Before we go, because I said we were going to talk about this. You write Saget a letter. Are you 12 years old? Eight. I was eight years old. You were eight years old.

So then this is years later. Bob is a guest on felon. And he never, he didn't write back, correct? Correct. okay so this is years later he's coming on on fallon's show and what happens well i pitched an idea i was like uh you know i i i pitched what if i read bob sag at this letter that i wrote to him when i was eight years old and the idea was pretty quickly approved and one of these bits you know sometimes it feels like it's such a headache to get a bit to finally make it on the show this was one

of those ones that just ran super smoothly and i read the letter to bob sacks on the show, which, by the way, I pulled up in front of me, I feel like I should not read the whole letter, but maybe just a couple excerpts, just to kind of paint the picture. So I misspelled his name in the first line. I go, Dear Bab Sagget, and this was an honest misspelling. It's like you're from Chicago. That's how Samago used to write the super fans. They would say, like, Bab. That's Bab. By the way, I should say we printed out an extra copy of this letter and my mom held on to it, which is why we still had the letter. I'm wondering about that. So kudos to my mom.

we're holding on to this awfully written letter that I wrote. I said, Dear Babsaggot, and it's from November 12th, 1992. I am someone named Arthur Meyer, and I am also a kid who likes to watch the TV shows that you are in. I live in Wilmet, Illinois. Are you in any other TV shows besides Full House and America's Funniest Home Videos? I mostly like Full House, although both are funny. Do you like being in, at least what I call, in funny TV shows? I think your TV shows are real funny. Do you? I also wanted to ask you a little more questions. Are you in any or were you in any other TV shows besides Full House or America's Funniest Home Videos? Which one do you like better? And then I'll jump down to the final, this is the final

paragraph. I have just four more questions to ask you. One is, do you have any favorite people that you act in? Two is, do you have any favorite shows that you acted or act in? Three is, would you want to be in any other TV shows that you act or acted in? Or would you have liked doing another job? Actually, I just thought of three more questions. Four is that, how many years have you been an actor? Five is, how long does it take you to rehearse a 30-minute act? Like in other ways of saying it, when do you do it? And the sixth and last question is, do any other people who like to watch your TV shows write any letters to you? I wanted to write a lot of questions to you because I like your shows that you are in, but I am also only eight years and a half years old in third grade.

So, do good acting. Maybe I will write to you another time. from Arthur Meyer and then I give my address and then PS and this is all capital letters write back and answer the question. And I read that to Sagan and I think he thought that there was some kind of joke that was going to be happy. Like that like there was some twist or something. So he was a little bit, I feel like he had sort of his defenses up a little bit and was kind of making jokes about it. So the bit didn't like play out maybe exactly like I would want, but, you know, it played well. And then afterwards, I met him backstage because that was my first time meeting him was like on the show, which I wanted it to be that way. I could have met him

before, but I'm like, I think it'll be better TV if I'm meeting him for the first time. I did talk to him backstage and he answered every one of the even more questions than what I read. He answered every one of those. And I think there's a video on YouTube where you could see him, if you type in like Bob Sagitt, Arthur Meyer, I think you'll see a video of him answering every question. But that was very cool. I have to ask you. I wrote him as well, but not nearly as, as charming. As stupidly, not as stupidly as me? I wrote him something and he got back to me only with a, I was like three by five color pre-signed, you're too cool Bob Saggett. And on the back, it was like studio fan mail, whatever company. And I got that back. But oh, wow. Genuine.

response by any means. Yeah, well, I never got any response from him until 21 years later. Actually, here's a cool fan letter story. When I was 16, I wrote a fan letter to Rachel Dratch. She had been on the show for a season, and I thought she was funny. And I'm like, who's an S&L person I could write to that might be more likely to write me back? And I thought, well, she's only been on the show for a year.

So I bet she gets less fan mail than other cast members. So I wrote, I basically asked her, like, I told her I'm a huge fan. I'm like, how can I do com? I'm an aspiring comedian. Do you have any advice? And I included a sketch that I had written for a radio show that I did in high school. When I was in high school, our high school was lucky and insane enough to have its own radio station. So my friend and I would write four or five sketches every week and I included a sketch. And anyway, a couple months later or a month later or something, I got a handwritten letter back from Rachel Dratch in the mail. It's about a page long. And she's thanking me for the letter and telling me what I can do. you know, she recommended Second City, which I took high school classes there, partially upon her recommendation. She included a signed headshot. And then 12 years later, I get hired your write at Fallon. And in like my second week of the show, this is like March of 2012, she is a guest on the show. And I'm like, well, I need to, I need to meet her. So I like, you know, even though it's not a good look for like especially a new writer to do, I hung out in the studio hallway where the dressing rooms are. And after

her interview. She went to a dressing room. She came out and I stopped her. I'm like, excuse me, Rachel, I'm so sorry to interrupt. I'm a writer here of the show and I actually wrote you a fan letter when I was 16 and she interrupts me and goes, are you Arthur? Before I could even say my name. You're kidding me. Insane, right? And she was just the nicest, like, yeah, I could not believe it. Wow, that's amazing that she remembered you. All of the SNL people that I worked with at the show, which ended up being a lot. Like, yeah, Will Ferrell, Tracy Morgan, Andy Samberg, Molly Shannon,

Maya Rudolph, Kristen Whig. Like, all of the, Dana Carvey, like, all the S&L people were some of the nicest and loveliest people I met. Will Forte, Fred Armisen, like, just exactly what you would hope. And you're just like, oh, yeah, this makes sense why they're so cool.

Like, you were drawn to these people when you're a kid. And you're just like, well, you assume that there'll be these kind of superheroes that will be standoffish or something. And then you get to know them and you're like, well, of course I liked them so much. They're all people who you want to hang out with. So you meet them and you're like, yeah, there's someone I still want to hang out with, you know. I love that you had that experience. Before we go, I wanted to mention this web series. Is that what you would call it a web series that you're doing, ABC Parenting? Yeah, someone said digital series

recently, which I realize sounds maybe five percent less pathetic than a web series. series since it's 2024 now. But yes, it's a web series called ABC Parenting. There's 50 episodes of it, or we've released about 40. And what it is is it's a bad parenting advice channel. So if you want terrible parenting advice, go to ABC Parenting on YouTube, Instagram, or TikTok. And I co-hosted it with Stephanie Drake, who was a really funny actress who was on admin. She played one of Don Draper's secretaries. And yeah, there's lots of people in the episodes like, oh, parents, kids. There's a few bigger name people, Erica Badu, Abby Elliott, Beck Bennett, Lauren Lappkiss, Joe Perra, Laliadafope, like a lot of cool people make little appearances in it. But yeah,

it's a cool series and I think we're going to write more of them and do a quote-unquote second season of it. Everyone check that out. We have to do a second episode to talk about not only have you done all this. You're a guest on Letterman CBS show. You actually Got to sit down. You auditioned for S&L, so you did that in front of Lorne. We have so, I have so many other things I'm looking at to ask you about. So it would be great if we could do a second episode if you're down with that. Of course. There's no ends the amount that I love and want to talk about late night.

That's amazing. Thanks for listening. Please subscribe so you never miss an episode. On Apple Podcasts, please rate it and leave a review. Be sure to go to late. nighter.com for all your late night TV news, and you can find my podcast at latenighter.com forward slash podcasts. Have a wonderful week, and I'll see you next Tuesday. We're going to be.

I'm going to be. I'm going to be. I'm going to be. And I'm going to I'm the and

I'm going on. I'm going to be able to be. I'm going to go. I'm going to be. I'm going to be. We're going to be. Thank you.

I mean,