Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Arthur Meyer Returns

Episode Date: July 15, 2025

Arthur Meyer returns to discuss Saturday Night Live, his favorite episodes and sketches, and shares his previous SNL writers submission packet.    Subscribe to ABC Parenting on YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/@abcparenting   Official Site: https://www.arthur-meyer.com/

Hi, welcome to Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff, presented by late-nighter.com. Today, Arthur Meyer, former Jimmy Fallon writer, we talk a lot about Saturday Night Live. John Schneider from the Saturday Night Network joins us. Now, it's time to go inside late night. Arthur Meyer, good to see you again. You too, Mark. Is this my third time on here? Let's just say it's your fourth.

Fourth. It might be my fourth. There's people when I would interview people for my Johnny Carson podcast that would make stuff up all the time, that they were on Carson. Somebody was saying like over 50 or 60 times and they were on maybe like 20 times. So I say go for it and inflate the stats. People don't question it normally. So yeah.

Well, thanks for having me. Oh, it's so good to see you. Your superpower, I really, really wish I had, which is that you can do all the Saturday Night Live host a musical guest by date, correct? Yes, I should. I'm a little blurry on like the early 80s. like the Ebersol years, and then I'm also, I sort of stopped committing the dates to memory after I graduated college because that just felt like I got a, you know, I'm an adult now.

I can't be, I can't be doing this anymore. It's unbelievable that you can do that. I think I mentioned like a Justine Bateman before, but can you also do, can you do the sketches in order from cold open to good nights? Can you do that as well? That I cannot do. I think I could do it for some episodes, but I don't, I probably most episodes, there would be a sketch or two that I'm forgetting. But I bet that there's a decent amount that I could, I could do them for. I'm going to just pick one from, because I talked about this in an upcoming episode, but John Travolta Seal, can you, can you do that? Oh, wow. Well, you know what's funny. I mean, like, I definitely know. All of 95. Yeah, I know a lot of the sketches from that episode,

but here's the thing. I started watching SNL the summer after that season, after the the 94-95. I only watch reruns, so I don't know, I mainly just know the order of those. I almost want to say that the first sketch after the monologue was the Welcome Back Cotter thing. But I don't know if that originally. It wasn't that I remember. John would know this because he knows he has everything in front of him. But was it, oh, was it the bat? Was it Dracula? I'm pretty sure it was Dracula. At least that's what I remember. And then maybe coffee talk, But I didn't think Welcome Back, the Tarantino thing got up until maybe either right before update or after update.

I could be off on that. I was there for it. So I should know these things. It feels like a first half of the show sketch. Like, do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I also think that there's a certain type of sketch that feels like a first sketch after update kind of sketch, you know?

Like an example that comes to mind for me is the Connie Stinson show from the Christopher walking episode, which, by the way, one of my all the time. favorite sketches that I never hear anyone talk about. Can you describe that for people that don't know it? Yeah. And can John, can you tell us who wrote it if you do know? John Schneider's always learned. Oh my God. I would kill to know who wrote this one.

I have my guesses, but the premise of the sketch is that Christopher Walken plays a talk show host, and this was during the daytime talk show craze of like Ricky Lake and, you know, Mori Povich, Richard Bay, Jerry Springer.

There were so many of those shows. So Christopher Walkin played Connie Stinson. And they're just kind of doing a typical episode of these. You know, it's like about, you know, men who are dating women who have gained weight, but they've gained too much weight. And basically, I guess the joke of the sketch is that Christopher Walken is Connie Stinson is kind of the language that he uses is that he will call them like a fat hog. Like it's like, he's just mean, but he doesn't really realize he's.

Yes. And like the guests on the show are all taken aback by how mean he is. Like it's funny because describing the sketch and make it like I don't want to make it sense. I don't think it's actually making fun of fat people. But it's it's almost a joke that I don't even. It's almost hard to say what is funny about it. But it's it's such an odd little idea. I don't know.

I'm curious if there are any listeners out there. Oh, does John have the info on that one? Yeah. So I don't have the writing credit for that one. But it is a post update sketch. so is the welcome back cotter one so they're both yeah that walkin one and john stay with us john that that walk in um episode which was january i believe of 96 am i right on that one yeah january 13 that's the with uh musical guest uh joan osborne and they only gave her one song which that was

one of the she she was public about it and an interview how upset she was and i think dave cut kekner and he was on my episode um on here was talking about how she gave him a bad, allegedly a dirty look or something like that because he went over or something like that. But I have to say that, and then the one that was Alec Baldwin and I think Tori Amos, which was either before or after, I was like, did they have found their groove that season? Oh my goodness. Both, I thought like with both of those, it was like, I feel, I felt really, really good about where the show was headed. Well, that walking episode, by the way is the only one in

SNL history to not show a goodnight's on any of the affiliates. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. That's amazing to think about. They did the Continental. I know that it was Fred Wolf. I was convinced that talk show was Brad Wolf, but I don't think it was. Talk show, but my guess would

be Fred Wolf. That much my guess. I kind of get him back, but I just remember that being super strong, but well, here's a question for you. That walking episode, I would put my money on that of all the episodes in S&L history in terms of host screen time, that one has to be up there, I would guess,

just because I remember, like, he did Continental. He did, he hosted Spade in America. Like, he was just all over that episode. Do you know the stats on that, John? Of all the episodes, which host has had the most screen time? We have another of the official stat on it, but that was one of the ones we talked about in contention with, I think Eric Idol from season two.

There's one episode where he's all over it. Betty White from season 35. What about Gabriel Byrne? Gabriel Byrne, maybe not the cold open, but he seemed to be in everything. Yeah. Jason Siddique has currently holds the modern record 34 minutes of screen time in season. Oh, wow. I would have thought of Phil Hartman.

That's so interesting that it's so dangerous. I mean, both similar utility people that they would put in. That's amazing. John, where are you currently up to in terms of the top, the greatest SNL episodes. What number are you up to your reveal? Because I want to ask our 50 to 31. So the first 20 of the I can't believe that Jerry Seinfeld is in Annie Lennox from whatever 92 wasn't that was like whenever it went 50 or something or 60. I'm like that easily at top 20 in terms of the writing in terms of that I was really really disappointed with that. I did I do have faith in some of my other

favorites that they're going to be mentioned. And I do think that even though I think it's overrated, I know that they're going to put the top Jim Carrey and the Sound Garden probably in the top 10. To me, it was a good episode. I get it, but I knew it was the writing, the actors, the groundlands especially, we're going to take over the show on the writing quality was not going to be to emphasize as much. And I was right on that. But it is a fun show, but I have a feeling. Arthur, do you have a top five or so of your favorite? Top five favorite. I mean, or strongest that you would think yeah i mean i think i once went on my friend craig rowans podcast who's another great you know he's a really good comedy writer he's uh about your

favorite episode of any show michael jordan was your favorite right michael jorne was my favorite um it was in the top 50 by the way yeah yeah really strong episode yeah i thought that that would have been up higher too but it's all good i'm trying to think what else would be in top five i mean I definitely remember Jim Carrey's being like a true standout episode. I remember you know which one I really like honestly and I think

it did make the top 50 was the Kevin Spacey episode the first time he hosted. That's not make our top 50. I could say that. The hardest thing for me. Oh, maybe I'm just thinking of I saw you guys mention it in the season 22 everything to know about SNL. The hardest thing for me in that episode and then back

to you, Arthur, was cleese and pale and geniuses getting complete silence on the total silence. And you know that these VIP people have no idea what this sketch is. Norm MacDonald mentioned, I don't want to mention who the cast members. He told one of the cast members they're doing the parrot

sketch. They're like, oh, is it funny? And it's like, Norm's like, you don't know the dead parrots get from Python and you're doing sketch comedy. But that was the hardest thing for me for Spacey, but Arthur, back to you. Well, I mean, now I'm thinking about Because I'm like, because I feel like probably, John, when you guys poll, I'm guessing that it probably skews more modern, right? I mean, I could be wrong about that.

That was my guess. You would think, however, we've released 20 so far and 17 seasons have been covered. So it's really like a large swath. There's a few modern episodes. Like he got like Gosling and Chris Stapleton was on there. We have the Stigest episode. was also on there. So, like, those are some modern ones that, like, rack the list probably from recency. But we have ones from almost every era so far.

So it's just like, there's a large, it's really segmented, but it all came together in a way that I'm really happy with. I would totally do. I could totally pick my, like, favorite episode of each season. I was just thinking back of like 78, 79. I feel like that Eric Idol episode was a really good one. I don't know if you guys remember that one. Sure. That's a great one. That's like the, I think it's the first candy slice sketch they have the madrigal which is a really cool thing do you guys remember the madrigal it's like bill murray lorraine jane and eric idol singing a madrigal like and the ship that went that took to see he and it's just a really precise performance the eric idol monologue in that episode was great um i think julia julia child was that episode yeah it's the kate bush also like one of my

favorite musical performances. But like 7778, you have their famous like April 22nd episode with Steve Martin, which like that one really front to back. I mean, you watch it and you're like, this is not only is it funny back then, but it's it still holds up. Is that blues brothers as well? It's the first blues brothers. Top three easily.

Top three easily in my. And I think like dancing, the dancing one with Steve Martin and Gildas in that episode, like the best of the, you know, the Fest Trunk brothers. installments is in that one as well. Theodoric of York, I think, is in there. So conventionally, that most people think that's the greatest episode of all time. Yeah. I'm not going to spoil the list, but certainly it's one that is highly considered. I still think top 10, Alec Baldwin, Paul McCartney, February of 93. That's way up there for me too. That's a great one. And I can't believe Smigel and Sandler's French teacher sketch for Baldwin was like way after update when it was

hard to get laughs and it's still absolutely killed. I thought Tim Meadows, even so Bobber Digest, which was Tim Meadows piece later, I mean, I thought the whole thing, the mimic, which was Franken, I think Mandel and maybe Xander, Christine Zander, and of course the Chris Farley show with McCartney. Oh, yeah. Genius. I mean, I think that was, that one was, was Franken and Ian Magstone Graham, I believe that did that one in particular, maybe Downey. I mean, that has hit footprint on that as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow, interesting. Yeah, that's a great one too. I'm trying to think what else is coming to mind. I mean, oh, you know what I think is a great one is the season premiere of season 14 with Tom Hanks and Keith Richards is a fantastic. And maybe in terms of like audience response, like might be one of the best audiences of all time. Like that episode has Phil Harmon doing the weightlifting thing. What else is in that? That was Jack Handy. Was that a Jack Handy piece? Right. I think that's I think that's Jack Handy.

Yeah, with his arms coming off. And then the monologue is always fun to see people like Odin Kirk or Conan or whoever. Yeah, that was Conan with the horse and his Keith Richards story about, have you guys heard that one? Like Keith Richards and Conan backstage and Conan just sees the famous debate sketch also. The debate sketch. I can't believe I'm losing to this gallery. Absolutely brilliant piece.

Oh, and I think Mr. Short-Term Memory. They have a great one in that. I think it's like the restaurant episode of that. And they have a funny big pre-tape because Tom Hanks is promoting big. Is that the, no, that's a different one. I was going to say that's when he was sliding into home plate, but that was a different. No, I think that's, I think that's the same thing. Oh, is that, is that it?

Yeah. It was so funny. I just remember as a kid watching that. And if you look very closely now, you can see that how they did that, how the kid didn't get hurt. But, I mean, it looked like when he's sliding into home. home that he just annihilated the kid. You know what's a weird sort of sleeper hit for me in terms

of greatest episodes? And I'm almost positive, John, this one won't make your list, but it's John Goodman, Tom Petty, and the Heartbreakers from April of 99. It's like one of their darkest episodes ever, I would say. Like, they have the Happy Smiley Patrol sketch. Do you remember

that one? It's like a kids TV show, but it keeps getting interrupted so that Chris Parnell, who plays you know the deadpan newscaster is like describing how each host of the happy smiley patrol was involved in this super intricate like psychosexual violent it's just all this descriptive imagery it's very dark and it's a it's a weird episode with a lot of new sketches like there's one where chris katan plays this kid who's in a gift wrapping store and he's like wrapping up gifts but doing a terrible job of it that was fine i remember that that's

a good one um what else was in that and then i have um i had another episode i thought was yeah yeah i was just going to say bouchemi the first time he hosted when they did denis mcnickelas piece the mad hatter and they did that job interview thing with katan that i thought that sketch is so funny i i thought that episode was was extremely um that would be a fun a fun poll to do is like sketches that bombed that are hilarious because i feel like that one pretty much died if i remember but I find it really funny. I feel like they did, they sort of had some job interview sketches back then,

like they did one in the Jeff Goldblum episode in 97 that gets almost no laughs. But I literally, I own a shirt that my friend made for me because of just a joke in that sketch. Tim Meadow shows up for a job interview wearing a jersey, a yellow jersey that says Hawaii 88 and Jeff Goldman. It's like that shirt you're wearing.

And Tim Meadows goes, oh yeah, I got this in Hawaii in 1988. they don't make him anymore and this one is not for sale and like no one laughs but i i remember going up to tim meadows at the 40th and telling him specifically about that sketch there was a sketch i wasn't there when um i think it might have been had was it hether locklear and um and janet jackson when they norm did andy runy and it completely bombed and i wasn't there but i heard backstage that everyone was laughing at the top of their lungs while the audience was not laughing like internally i mean jim downy when he got when he got called into the quote principal's office when all mire and all of them were um talking about the show they i think reg luddwin used that as an

example of something that didn't work and down he's like what do you mean i thought it was hilarious and it's bombed on air but everybody internally that was maybe something that just made everyone laugh because it was just like norm just kept going and going and just you know um it just played didn't play yeah that one's great i mean they also have the uh the bar sketch from that episode is a classic steve corin's flirt oh man it's it's such a that is that is actually i'd say top 30 episode maybe in terms of uh i love that episode it's a great finale yeah oh yeah the good night the good or the um whatever they did with the phil hart that song at the end good the sound of music thing that smigel wrote was absolutely phenomenal yeah i'll also say you guys

talking about late 90s episodes, like, I think it's becoming a little bit of a lost era for fans now because the other ones are talked about so much, either for being really good or really bad. But everything is like pretty average to maybe slightly above average. And I think that the narrative around the late 90s is just recurring characters and Will Ferrell. So I think that a lot of the episodes get blended together in people's minds. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah. So I think that's probably, yeah, like I said, I don't want to spoil the results of the the poll, but I could say, you know, just to wrap up this, this portion of the pod for you, Mark, just to tell you guys the 20 we revealed so far in case there's anything interesting on here

that you guys like. But we got Swayze and Mariah Carey from season 16. Michael Jordan, we mentioned that episode came in at 49. David Allen Greers from season 21 came in at 48. That's a great episode. That's a really good. That would be on my list for sure. Yeah, that was a good one. Then we had Anne Hathaway's episode from 2008, 47. Jerry Seinfeld, Annie Lennox, you mentioned came in at 46. Conan's episode came in at 45. That's from season 26. We had Justin Timberlake double duty from season 38. That's his five-timers episode. Shatner and Loan Justice was at 43. Timberlake and Lady Gaga came in at 42. Then we had Christopher Walken and Foo Fighters at 41. Baldwin's Christmas episode with Pavarotti and Vanessa

Williams came in at 40. Sigourney Weaver, the first episode of that new era, came in at 38, then Gosling and Stapleton. Then Alec Baldwin and the B-52s. That won his first time hosting. Seth McFarlane and Frank Ocean was 36. Lindsay Lohan Usher, that's the Debbie Downer episode, Christopher Walkin, at Rest of Development, and then Grodin was the only original era we revealed so far with Paul Simon and the Persuasion's, Jimmy Fallon, Michael Boubley Christmas episode, and then Jason Sadecas, Brandy Carlisle is the most reason one. Wow.

That's interesting. I wonder if there are certain episodes that are almost, to me, feel like they made the list because, I don't want to say solely because, but just like they had such a classic sketch in it. Like, I think of, like, Patrick Swayze as an example, because I don't really, there's not a ton that sticks out from the rest of that episode for me. Hans and Franz. They did Johnny Carson's got to upset Carson. Um, in real life. Oh, that was the one that. Chris Rock is Arsenio. They did that, um, the white trash bed at bed and breakfast, which I think was a 10 to 1 on Patrick Swayze. I'm trying to think what else. It's a pretty good episode. Honestly, 30 square dancing, cold open, which was fun. That was a really fun cold open.

pretty underrated, but that's basically the narrative that we've been talking through the last few weeks is like, how much does one moment make an episode? And you had like the Debbie Downer bringing up the Lindsay Lowen episode, which frankly isn't so great. And then the Gosling Stableton, that's the Beavis and Butthead moment. So you sort of get that like put it in here. Yeah, I mean, any of his episodes, I feel like are all worthy of top hundred at least. Like his episodes to me are like what you're looking for when you watch that show, which is

like, does it feel live? If not just like, is it funny, but does it really feel like a live show? I want us each to name a couple sketches that we don't know who wrote them and that they're on your mind. Because I know eventually we're going to get somebody internally that's going to help us or to crack the code. But the ones that some of them, these are just a few on my mind that I've always wanted to know is one. And maybe John, you do know or Arthur, sarcastic clapping family. I think I might know this. And I don't remember where I heard it because my assumption would be,

what I'm guessing everyone's assumption is, which is Jack Handy. But I think, I want to say it was Al Franken wrote this. I was going to guess Tom Davis. I have no idea who wrote it, but it was Franken. I should email him. I just, yeah, I should reach out. Email who, Al Franken? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You have his email? I do. Yeah. I mean, I, yeah, I mean, I just get bad people. I get bad people sometimes. Oh, I'm sure he would love it. He's, you know. Well, I wanted.

to ask him about a specific sketch. And he actually reached out back, got back to me, which was one of my favorite sketches, which is a ridiculous sketch, which was, you mock me, which is John Malkovich and Nita Bryant. And it's just, it's just silly. And it's, that's my favorite kind. And I knew Franken wrote it, but I didn't know if he wrote it with anyone. And he told me he wrote it with Mike Myers. He said it was the very, very, very, I think it was Mike Myers' first sketch. It was his very first sketch. And he told me they wrote it together. And we were just talking about that he couldn't have been nicer about it so um that's interesting that frank and others were the holy pardon when she's with the cast and she's talking about like television and it's like all

her favorite story the stories that she were they're all like obviously the things that are told to her there are obvious tv shows that she didn't grow up with that they were passed off his stories and then um so Seinfeld Elijah Elijah the prophet with Seinfeld doing kind of like the Elijah a groucho marks type thing i thought was i would guess me frank and but those are just some ones that i'm always to be a jewish writer yeah i was going to get i was going to get smigle but then smigle i probably had at least i mean he at least had stand up and win in that i asked smigle and he didn't take credit for it so um because i i gave him a big list because i'm a

nerd um and he knows it and he still likes me and is nice to me but i gave him a whole list of like who do you know who wrote all these things and um i don't i think he didn't mention that but stand-up, when he could, in some episodes, he would get multiple ones, but it did, I would have guessed Smigel or maybe Franken. I could be. I'm not really sure. Wow. Yeah, I think for me, one sketch I've always wanted to know who wrote this, and I wonder if you have this information, John, is the Blind Date Airport sketch from the season 26th Rob Low episode. Do you guys know that one? It's a really odd sketch. It's just sort of a slice of life sketch. And there's even really a premise to it.

It's just sort of a weird bad date. That's actually a Will Ferrell and Molly Shannon sketch. They wrote those Oh, wow. I know. I was like sitting in the office. Molly talked about that on a fly on the wall. I love that. They wrote, didn't they write the dog talk or dog? What was that called? Dog show. I think they wrote those together as well.

They might have had someone else, but I like when they would write together. Yeah. Yeah. I told the story before Will Ferrell was so shocked. It was like the week after that debuted and I saw him speak at NYU and he was just, they couldn't believe because that was so the time, it was like all recurring sketches the first half and that it got to be the first sketch after the monologue, which was really a departure for something like that, that they couldn't believe that it got in at the top. But at the top of it, I thought that was fun. But, Arthur, are there any other sketches that off the top of your hat that you want to know?

And then, I mean, there's, I feel like maybe I know this one, but the whole Kogan talk show from season 21, my guess would be that. that's Adam McKay. It's McKay. It is McKay? Okay, yeah. Because I know that there's at least one or two names in that sketch that are like guys that he did improv with in Chicago. So I just assumed it was McKay.

There's also a fun fact. There's like a Wayne's World from, I want to say like 1990, maybe the Deborah Winger episode where they say the name Tim Meadows, like a year before Tim Meadows was ever on the show. Oh my goodness. I wonder about that. You know that somebody was like Odden Croaker. somebody was around the table or something throwing. Yeah, they just needed a name.

Yeah. When you need a name, you just go with people, you know. It's happened a few times. That happened with one of the writers who wrote Riffick, Brian Kelly. They threw him in the real world sketch written by David Mandel. And they mentioned his name is a character name, which, I mean, Brian Kelly is pretty generic. But it was definitely, it seemed like a lampoon thing that they put him in. You know, you know what else I'd be curious about is the last, the 10.

to one sketch from the second Jerry Seinfeld episode where he plays a gangster. Or is that, yes, like he's, but they're dressed up as doctors. And basically they're, they're like beating the crap out of the guy that they're looking for played by Jerry Seinfeld. But then they, they don't, they still want to get information out of him. So they keep reviving him and, you know, making sure that he stays alive. and then they just keep beating the crap out of him. Like, do you know that sketch?

It's a really great catch. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know who wrote that one. Do you know who wrote that one, John? I don't either. But it's a really good visual, like him, like coming back to life, dying, coming back to life, that whole thing. I reminded me of Jason Alexander when he was beating up to Meadows, and he's like, oh, he's had enough. And then Meadows keeps coming back and lunging at him.

Oh, yes. Yeah, I know Meadows told me he wrote that one, but that's a little bit reminiscent. Yeah, you know, I remember seeing Anna Gas Tire talk. at Northwestern in 2003. My older sister Elaine was a freshman at Northwestern that year, and she was like, I guess I were speaking at this thing. And I'm like, oh, can I come? So I went to see her speak. And one thing I remember her saying was she sort of talked about the general differences between the male and female writers on the show at the time, which was just that the women tended towards more character sketches and the men were more concept driven. And then

And she also talked about the specific subset of young Harvard men on the show who would write things that were always about sharks and bears and robots and stuff. Yeah, well, I think that all changes when Tina comes around eventually and gets more power at the show. But pre-term interesting. Yeah, McNeckles would write the concept pieces when they would really work. I don't know how much laughter it got, but that Bill Pullman, when he hosted and they did The one thing, it was a, McNeculus wrote that piece about, I don't know, was it, was can't, there were actually, I don't know, it was a live camel or not, but the needle getting a camel through. It was like a Bible scripture about how to, for a rich person to get a, for a camel to go through the needle of a. Pass through the eye of a needle. Yes. That was in, yes, that was exactly those type of, and then Norm wrote that one, I think he wrote somebody told me, he wrote that tick-tac-toe thing where it's like,

He just, it's the most ridiculous premise. It's like Tic-Tac-Tto. It's like a game show like Hollywood Squares. But he's like manually like hammering in with a nail, the X and the O's. Oh my God. It's such a funny sketch. Yeah, I think Norm talked about on Twitter like a few years back, you know, when he was still around about that sketch and that he read it.

It was ridiculous. But the thing about that episode that I still can't believe and I really want to see the dress rehearsal is that AT&T Danish sketch that was the first after the monologue. just dies. And there aren't jokes. I mean, it's a groundling sketch where it's just all behavior, humor. And I'm sure it killed. It had to kill for dress for them to put that up there. And for whatever reason, Katan talked about it in his book. He said that it was one of the first things that that he did that like didn't get anything. But do you recall that sketch? I remember that sketch. Yeah. And I think that is, I mean, it has a total groundlings feel to it. It's an interesting

thing with some of those sketches because you could kind of, I just saw recently someone posted you know, Will Forte was talking about a sketch that he audition with where he plays one of those bronze street Roebuck or whatever

those guys are that just like stand there. They stand still, but he sings a song called like basically I know you'll bleep this out but I'll say it. I guess I suck for face paint. It gets to that. It takes a while to get there, but It gets there, yes. There's a really long build. That's one of the surprises that you don't see

coming. Yes. I think you talked about that with Amy Poehler on her podcast recently. Yes. So they did that sketch because I used to have access to the SNL server when I was at Fallon and I looked at, I was just going through, I would scrub through like old dress rehearsals. And I think they did that. And I want to say like the sixth episode that Will Forte was on, which would have been like Brittany Murphy. So it made it to dress. But it completely bombed. But if you watch the video from when they showed it to the groundlings it absolutely destroys like it's you know such a stark difference and that's the sort of thing where you're like it must just it must be a thing of just like does the audience like know who this person is yet you know like had chris katan been on the

show long enough for that AT&T sketch to work you know like who knows it's hard to say cackiner told me I was there for his third episode with David Schwimmer and he did this marine sketch and I was there for dress nothing and he said at second city we kill yeah always killed and it's just i think it is it's a lot of it is just acceptance and when they don't know who these people are and will happen to will feral for a while um where people don't know who you are and it's just it's it's it's much harder to get the audience on your side for something but um yeah i thought that was interesting i always love how granular we get about s and l when i'm on this podcast because i'm always like i'm always like I can only assume that the people who are listening to this are as into it as we are

because it's a very specific, very like, sort of an esoteric podcast, you know. But like, I'm like, I don't even know what a normal person understands from this conversation. Maybe they're getting at all. I truly have no idea. I don't know. Well, there's such like a base level watching of S&L where you don't even think about the people who wrote the sketches. And it really takes like the double or triple watch to just be like, oh, I see the moves.

here that are similar to other sketches and you develop patterns and start to like figure those things out so yeah um i think the people who are the most fascinated by the concept of the show love getting to hear these conversations because then they just get like a little bit closer to it i hear from people all the time that that are have the same questions we do and very strong opinions and people that just i'm no s and l a little bit but i mean i love fly on the wall they do a great job but let's face it you're not going to learn a lot and it's fun it's fun it's fun to listen to it. Maybe you learn a little bit, but I mean, I wish something like this would exist back in the day. Arthur, you were mentioning that you, when you were growing up,

and I wish I had this when I was first got an SNL with Sean Bradley's message boards. I mean, I think you both were on them, right? Did John, was that after, did you get the show after Sean Bradley was doing the first SNL site? I was around when he was doing it, but I wasn't as actively involved had I been a little bit older. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, I would I would write episode reviews for that website. I mean, you know, anyone was allowed to write episode reviews and just it was great. I never posted anything, but just to see what people had to say with the fans weren't to get as nerdy as we are with strong opinions and writers. John, who are, what are your mysteries, a couple sketches that you still, because I mean, you have this, this list. I mean, the most complete list of anybody that's not works. 30 rock of who wrote what and stuff? I mean, are there, who, what are some of your mysteries? Mine are more modern ones, because I feel like the older sketches will get determined, but there's like some modern ones that like nobody wants to take credit for that I would love

to like figure out. One is, um, so the Omicron episode, which is probably the most unique episode in the history of Saturday Night Live when Paul Rudd was set to host for the fifth time and then everyone dropped like flies and they only had like a few people left, but they decided to like go on air and make this like a canon SNL episode. And I don't know like who ended up putting together that cold open of Paul getting his jacket with Che and Tina and like all that. Like that's one for me that like because we were working with a skeleton crew, like I have no idea who put that one together. That's a big mystery for me. I think it would be interesting to hear some sort of list of the most unique or most unusual episodes of SNL. Like you know, Francis Ford

Copla comes to mine and George went. That's a big one. What else would be on there? What's coming to mind for you guys? That would be really strange. When they had that grandmother host or whatever, wasn't it? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Well, I interviewed one of the finalists from the Everyone Can Host contest and got to talk to her about what it was like to be there for the Buck Henry episode when they would come and like the audience would vote. And it was the most fascinating conversation. Wow. Did you learn anything? you're you're that really sticks to to mine uh well first of all how good john belushi was to them which was like a really uh that makes sense i could see that which was really cool um but more like that

it just like at the time like you're trying to think of the logistics of how this all worked and like she was a college student and that they had to like call her like leave a message with the secretary at the dorm to like let her know to go into the show and then um just like what they did with them all week like she basically got to watch the show from the inside, and she remembers, like, watching. It was just, it was really fascinating conversation, honestly. And then all the things,

like, all the memorabilia she got to keep. And basically a lot of it would, like, they were winging a lot of it. Like, because they had Buck and they just trusted him to, like,

go up there and talk to it. So it was like maybe the most unscripted S&L segments ever. Mm-hmm. It was really interesting. Wow. The five hosts episode comes to mind, too, just in terms of like they've never done that. You know,

the one from May 12th. the day before I was born, May 12, 1984. What else? I guess probably the, what's the thing that ends with like the giant lobsters? Yeah, the Robert Klein episode. Yeah, that's a really good one. Yeah, I like whenever they would break format.

I mean, the David Mandel stuff was always so much fun. I wouldn't say it's like, which David Mandel stuff are you talking about? I love it good nights when they do Breeze when Travolta hosted and they do the. Oh, okay. That was Mandel? yeah like the planet of the apes called open and it which leads into the opening credits where they're all in monkey they're all in planet of the apes um costume oh yes that was great any time they would depart from the format like mackay when they would do like this it was like didn't say de nero next week de nero and um rolling stones and it's subpoenaed by kenneth star or something like that yes which at the time i assumed that that was their next episode i had no way of knowing that that was a joke before denero i think ever hosted and

And it was, whenever they would, they would do stuff like that, I thought that was very cool. Yeah, totally. Do you guys, like, think a lot about the musical guests on the show, or does that not, in terms of your S&L interests and stuff? Because for me, that's, that's always been a big part of it. But generally speaking, in recent years, I just haven't found the selection of musical guests to be nearly as interesting as it was in, like, the first five years where I thought it was just incredible. It seems that it's just the presentation gets more attention than the actual. Some of the music is in terms of the visuals and the sets and things. Not for everybody.

But I just loved the innovativeness that everybody got the same set. And it was just all about the ability. It's just things have changed. It's different. But yeah, some of the music was unbelievable that they've had. I thought the peacock dock with the music was unbelievable. Oh, my God. Yeah.

Anyone who's listening to this should prove, which is probably if there's probably everyone who's listening to this has watched that doc. But if you haven't out there, at least watch the first eight minutes. Oh, greatest S&L documentary ever. I think there's nothing that compares. But the, you know, what's interesting about the music is like when I first, so I watched the show, then I went back and I watched everything. And like, I wanted to figure out like what's the best way to like take in all this information.

So in my other life, I'm also like a DJ. So I was like, oh, S&L is a great way for me to learn about older music. And I always found like it's a really good reflection of every generation of music. So oftentimes I'd be like, okay, what was popular then? Why is it interesting? And I still think it hits. Like even though the visual presentation has changed tremendously and now everyone's like trying to one up each other on the S&L stage, like I think they hit a lot of like what makes

2024 music, 2024 music or 2025 music, 2025 music. So I don't think they've lost a step as far as book. looking the right guess. They just might not be as like indie or niche as they were back when the cast members would ask for favors for their friends to come and perform on the show. Right. It's interesting. Yeah, I guess I just think of bands like

you know, in season one, the Preservation Hall jazz band where it's just like eight old men who are just sitting and playing the hell out of their instruments. And it's like this would be the weird. Oh, were they, what did they? They were at the homecoming. Oh, okay.

What did they, I can't write, because I only watched it when that aired that night, but what did they, were they, they were playing in the concert? I think they were backing other performers or playing like between sets, but like they were, okay. They were there. It was very unique. John, you were there. I was not there in Radio City, but I just had recently talked to somebody that was there. And they were talking about how when they first found out that the backstreet boys were going to be part of it, that it was just like didn't make any sense to them. What?

Well, I'll get to it. Well, it was a generational thing. They told me at first why they would be included. but then he's like I was so wrong when when they got up and everybody knew the words it didn't matter who it was he was like inmate that that's when I knew that how because I think if you had too many of those pop groups on I think that wouldn't have worked but they were to put one up there like that was just it really said a lot about I think just you know that the band and their their longevity and that everybody in the audience

the words. I don't like most people have not experienced being in a 6,000 people room a concert going on and it is like dead. And that's what was happening for this 50th concert. Maybe it didn't play on TV that way, but like the room was as dry as could possibly be. It didn't play like that. It didn't play like. And then the backstead boys came on and it like lit a fire in the room and it was as loud as as possible. And from that point forward, it just like everything was nuts. It was probably the Baxter Boys and post Malone with Nirvana were the two moments that the room was allowed to. Oh, wow. Okay, so here's my, here's my question. What is the funniest host musical guest pairing of all time? And I do kind of think there's a correct answer to this question.

Oh, gosh. I mean, I'm trying to think, um, strange. Okay, I got one. Drew Barrymore or garbage? That one weirdly works for me, but I think, Patrick Swayze, sweet, and, Salton Peppa. Oh, no, Patrick's, Patrick Stewart. Oh, yeah, yeah, sorry, Patrick Stewart. Oh, that's a great one. I think mine would be Steve Forbes and Rage Against the Machine.

Yes. I was there for that one. I was there for that. Or Charles Barkley and Nirvana is another good one. Or Trump and Toots in the May Talls. Yeah. Oh, my God, yes. Yes, that's a great one, too.

Just like the most dissonance between the host and the musical guys. Steinbrenner, who was Steinbrenner when he hosted? I think it was the time, I believe. Yeah. it was like prince's group the time or i don't know if it was prince's group or fish was pretty pretty that's yeah that's a really good one um arthur i wanted to ask you about um you've submitted to s nl before um well can you share some of your premises that you've that you've that you pitched in your packet how many did you do multiple ones to s nil so i've actually only done um before this

year just two so i did one last year and then i did one with my friends and roommate Dan Klein, but that was back in like 2008. And then, of course, you know, I think we've talked about it on this podcast. I auditioned in 2018, but I've only actually submitted a packet twice. But yeah, I did five sketches. Let's see. I have it here in front of me, so I could kind of skim through and tell you the premises. And also, if you could tell us who you cast, because the thing that I think some people

don't realize is when somebody does a writing packet, you are actually writing down. you know, Christian, if it's Kristen, if it's the current cast, or whoever it would be, you'd be right in Heidi and you're cast in everybody. Yes, you put like the most recent seasons cast into the roles.

And I think you can also maybe cast the hosts too, but to me it just makes more sense to have it be the cast. So I did a sketch about micro dosing. So it's basically a conference room. It's like a tech startup. And they're trying to think of a name

for the app. And then someone comes up with a good name and they find out that it's because they microdose and it made their brain a little more creative. And then it's revealed that Andrew Dismukes also read that article, but he misread it as macro dosing. So he

basically, and he said that he just started doing it this morning. So he's basically, he macrodosed LSD and he's in this office meeting. So that's kind of the premise of that one. Let's see. What else did I have? Oh yeah, books you can eat. It's basically it's a pre-tape commercial. Do you find that getting through an entire book is nearly impossible? I wish it was easier to finish a book. Well, now it is introducing

books you can eat. So it's basically edible books. That way you could, when someone asked you how that book is going, you can not lie to them when you say that you finished it. And then I did a weekend update segment with Sarah playing the GOP nominee for president in the year 2028. So the idea there is that just like, even if Trump loses in November, which of course he didn't, many are worried that he's already pushed the GOP to such extremes, that there's no turning back here now from the future to address that concern is the Republican nominee for president in the year 28. And then it's basically just Sarah.

She plays, she's a, what's her, I don't even know, her name is Bart Truck and she has a tattered blazer one foot wide tie American flag iPad. The game of this sketch is that she's basically. just completely insane, but is the, you know, the Republican candidate. So that was that one. Oh, I had a sketch called No Dumb Questions, which is that it's like a tour group at the Mona Lisa. And you know that thing that people often do when they'll be like, yeah, sorry, this might be a dumb question, but like, was the Mona Lisa like a real person? And then Mikey Day goes, oh, no, not a dumb question. And then he answers it. And then Sarah goes, oh, sorry, yeah, this might be a dumb question.

is the Mona Lisa smiling because she's watching sports bloopers and basically everyone in the tourist group just keeps asking truly dumb questions. So that sketch is basically just it's just dumb questions. And then the last sketch that I submitted

was a music video where Ego plays sort of a Donna Summer or maybe she literally plays Donna Summer. It's for a show called Crappy Classics and it's basically just her kind of singing about you know there's that line from um the song hot stuff sitting here calling my boyfriend but ain't nobody answering the phone this song is basically just all about her making phone calls on the phone it's essentially just me what i used to do for when i would write first drafts of rock for the tonight

show which is just there's something a little bit unusual in the first sentence and then you just extrapolate and have the whole song be about that so the song is basically just about ego loves making phone calls and she's just thinking about how much she loves her phone and her phone calls, and then you find out that she uses her phone as a vibrator and that kind of thing. I wanted to ask you, the one thing that they did mention, I've heard from a lot of people over there, is to keep the sketches as short as possible. Were your sketches pretty short? Would you stay? No. I mean, I tried to keep them on the shorter side, but they were, I felt like they just need, they need to be the shortest length that they like should be in order to kind of

still make it feel like a full sketch. I remember when I was auditioning for S&L, my audition was like, I think it was probably about seven minutes, and I know that they tell you to keep it to five minutes, but I've been on the other end of receiving packets and watching auditions before, not watching SNL auditions, obviously,

but watching, you know, auditions for other things. And something like a time limit is not going to be the deciding factor. You know, you're not going to not put Will Ferrell on SNL if he does seven minutes in his audition, you know. I wish you, it's amazing that I could see when you got hired on Fallon because they actually recorded during rehearsal. But to see your SNL audition would be fun.

John, have you seen any SNL auditions that haven't been on YouTube before? Have you ever seen tapes of those before? Well, the first thing that comes to mind is that documentary that they released, like in advance of the 50th talking about the auditions. There was a ton of footage in there that I don't think anyone's ever seen before. I just know this guy who was an intern at the show who has a tape of and he showed me this is a long time ago of just random people and the only one that got at that year was Rachel Tratch but I saw pretty much everybody I remember Andy Andy Daley who's really funny auditioned and I think I'm trying to remember who else was in that I mean I think at Ali Faranacian maybe as well I forget I remember that SNL server I had at the office did have some old auditions. So I remember watching like, I think Adam McKay's audition

I saw. A bunch of people from that season or two. Elon Gold. The New York Post even said that they thought he was going to get hired that season. Unbelievable, that guy. He got Dana Carvey. I don't know if you've ever seen any of his reels. I don't even think they're on YouTube, but they're unbelievable. I still wish that guy would

have gotten hired. Did you see Galvanakis' audition in the same one as Dratch? No, I didn't. I don't think. Not that I remember. I'm sure if I blocked it out, I would, I think I would remember it. Maybe I didn't watch the whole tape. I probably only watched maybe like 10. I remember Andy Daley doing Hunter Thompson. I remember Dratch's. I interviewed Dratch on the show and she has never seen her audition. She told me, man, I'm like, you did really, really well. I remember her doing her and Tina Faye had a show at UCB called Dratch and Faye. I saw it a bunch of times. And she did some stuff from there. And she did Callista Flockhart Padratch. I mean, absolutely slam dunk Michael Jordan. I mean, just like, oh, my goodness. You can see why she got hired on that.

I mean, I fall in always. Yeah. But, yeah, there's some great ones out there. I'm trying to think, I mean, I think I sort of modeled mine after Jimmy because his audition was just cram as much stuff into five minutes, or in my case, seven minutes as you can. And Jimmy give you any advice in advance of that audition? Ooh, that's a really good question.

You know, I don't remember any specific advice. I think I do remember when I first kind of, you know, was asking for his blessing to audition. He knew about my, you know, my freaky SNL power with knowing all the dates and stuff. And he was brainstorming that I could do something involving that, you know, in my audition. I kind of remember thinking, I don't think that's the best idea. You know, like, I kind of don't know if they're going to want to, like, hire fanboys and stuff. But I, but he was just really encouraging about it, very, like, you know, supportive. I thought I was so interesting with the documentary where they had, they talked about the gentleman who got naked at the audition.

Oh, yeah, that's, yeah, that guy, Henry Zabrowski, who is hilarious. Very funny. And Henry Clarified, they knew in advance that I was going to be doing. that. So it wasn't, I kind of thought it was a surprise that he just did that. But I guess that they knew about it. But that guy is a really, really funny sketch, um, sketch player. I thought he was really good. That's my son. That's my son, Theo, right there. He's going to have to sign a release former. This will never air. Um, no, but, um, it was really funny. I did want to mention Gallupinacus, John, too, because, um, Barry Katz, who was recently on this podcast, whom with manager of, I mean,

He got Brewer on the show. We got Hammond. He got Tracy Morgan, Jay Moore. He, on one of his episodes, said, and I believe this to be the truth. And I forgot to ask Barry about this, is that Gallifinacus, I guess it was probably, it must have been pretty Carrie Hoffman, who was his manager. Maybe he knew that Barry had some clients on the show offered Barry. I will pay you X thousands of dollars if you can get me an audition on the show.

Or to get me in the after party or something. I mean, Zach at one point was hanging out in the 30 Rock Lobby for waiting for writers and would go up to Al Franken and be like, how do we get on? How do we get it to be a writer here? Zach Galafinacus? Yes. And the writer, and I think Franken, Galifanacus said that Franken said at the time, which is this is what you had to do is, you had to do stand-up. I mean, unless you were a lampoon, it was a lampoon in stand-ups were the ones that were getting hired. And like at this point, Zach was out of school. And, yeah, I know, to look back because this guy's hosted the show.

and is like such a good host is unbelievable to think about him hanging out in the lobby like a lot of people did when they were getting started and stuff i mean it was just this giant mystery how you got hired on SNL i've been advocating for open auditions for us and l for a very long time really yeah i think it would be great i mean what's the what's the worst that can happen they just don't want their time wasted that's the thing you're going to probably get the receptionist or something like why limit the talent pool to the people that that like are have agents or like it's just to me like there's probably really really funny people out there that they're limiting themselves from bringing up you might it's interesting though

because it's probably it's probably opened up a lot more in recent years with ticot like you think of someone like jane wicklin who like ticot was sort sort of her big thing right like yeah jpals johnson yeah so that's like that right there is opening it up to people who i don't know if they would have i mean i guess it depends on if you have a rap but yeah it's just non non-traditional ways of getting on the show. I'm trying to think if there's anybody else that didn't have an agent or a manager who was able to somehow finagle their way in or, um... I mean, the only one that's coming to mind for me is Eddie Murphy.

That's unbelievable. Now, I really... So that really supports John's theory there. I know somebody that was, that I talked to that was in the room when he auditioned. And, um, Murphy, I've heard different versions, but one of them is that Murphy was actually just kept calling an SNL up and being like, you have to let me audition. just was relentless. But also, I don't even think he did a traditional audition.

I believe he just essentially performed five minutes in front of Neil Levy. He was up on the 17th floor, and it was, Neil was maybe probably one of them. There were two other people, or three people that were there as well. And he was 19. I don't think he was with Richie Tanking at the time. It became his manager. And I think you might have been right. Maybe he was the only one that got it without any representation.

Isn't that funny? Arguably their funniest cast member of all time had no representation when he got SNL? Unbelievable that that guy. I mean, the guy would have gotten famous no matter what, but just the fact that he was telling everybody that would listen, I'm going to be famous by the time I'm 20 or whatever. And then it just worked out for that guy. Unbelievable, but that he was calling up apparently 17. And that was his only audition of his career. He's never auditioned since for anything. Yeah, but you look, you think about like American Idol. Like Kelly Clarkson, Carrie Underwood, like, they would not have been on the show or on the show if you needed to have representation to get an audition at American Idol. Like, why do it this way?

S&L almost, didn't S&L almost, or Lauren almost participated? And it was like a like a comedy contest, right, where the reality winner would have gotten to be an S&L cast member. I've been fighting for this for a long time. They were close to doing that. I mean, they, I don't know if they thought it hurt the integrity of the show or what, or why they stopped. they didn't go through with it but um definitely it probably just is to protect like to just protect the time of the people who are working there i would guess like just because like i remember it's just it i think what you're saying totally makes sense john like it it would open up the

like you know what what is what could go wrong with that and then there's the part of me that used to read packets and you know when you're watching auditions and you see so many people do the same, you know, impression or whatever. Let me ask you. Let me, if you got like former cast members to come back in and judge or watch these auditions, like, then you're not really wasting the time. Like, then you're involving the family in this or people who have the experience, former head, like headwriters, writers coming on in. Like, you could have like a panel of people vet these people in order to. Oh, I like that. I like that. I like that. Yeah. I mean, I definitely could see that as a show as well. I mean, yeah. What about

SNL cast members who got on the show but never audition? Like, I feel like I heard that maybe Maya Rudolph did not audition, I want to say, but I might be wrong about that. And Mike Myers never auditioned for the show. There's only a few of those, right? Like, um, well, there's like, I think Amy Poehler did not audition. There's like, uh, you know, probably Christopher Guest and Harry Shearer and Mike McKean, and, um, yeah. Um, but like Phil Hartman auditioned. Dana Carvey but like

who else did not audition Is there anyone you could think of John that I'm like Chris Elliott and Janine Garofalo I mean Mark McKinney

probably didn't have to audition Right Mark McKinney Polly under a very weird circumstances Like now with everything being so formulaic

I don't think that there's been anybody in the last 20 years probably Yeah maybe not since Amy Boller possibly

And Amy's the last one to be made into a repertory player right away pretty much like after a few months yeah wow i didn't realize that that makes but i think she was sort of on like another level from where most people start having already done the ucb show and yeah it was on comedy central already and i mean she was in new york she was already known um yeah um but she was i mean phenomenal yeah um by the way mark mckinney i think would be my vote for most underrated cast member of all

time. He did a good Steve Forbes. He had the the Phops. I mean, he was I thought he was like pitch perfect in everything he did and knew how to serve the sketch in a way that you cast members could quite nail. Like,

some are, some cast members are just 100% like serving the sketch every time and know exactly what it needs. And he's one of them. You just never hear much about him, at least in terms of S&L, you know. Chopped up. or four, 10 to one sketch.

I think if you're defining underrated is like how good they actually were to the perception of how good that they were. I think you ought to go with like Chris Parnell was probably way better than he's perceived to have been. Is he not perceived to have been that good? It's not that he's perceived to be bad, but just that he's not like given the credit

of being like one of the greats of his era. And I think you can throw Amy in that category. I think that Amy is a top 10 cast member of all time who doesn't get recognized as one. Amy Poehler? Yeah, I do. I just feel like she does get recognized, right? As a top 10 cast member of all time?

I don't know about that. Maybe not a top 10, but like I feel like she's, I don't know, my understanding of it is that people believe she was great on SNL, but I don't know. The Chris Parnell thing, he's someone who's, he gives like understated performances and stuff, and I think you're, I would totally agree with that. Phil Hartman was not given the credit he should have gotten it all when he was a cast member. I mean, I don't think. Everyone thinks he's the goat.

Everybody does. It just took a long time, I think, for people to realize how good he was in his brilliance. But yeah, there are a few people like this. Arthur, I know that you have to go because you have a life. And John, you're married now. I have to go, Mark, but not because I have a life. Just, yes. But thank you for doing this, John.

Thank you for being here, Arthur, and I love doing this. I mentioned John to John that you were doing this. I love Arthur Meyer and you're always good. And I've been so honored that you kept your clothes on because we haven't even got into that. Thank you. I was, I think you must take the prize on Fallon of taking your shirt up more than anybody else that's ever been on that show. Oh, yeah. I mean, I've been naked on a few shows, high maintenance and shrill and Fallon.

Zappalo's commercial, right? And is that post commercial? I don't know. That's unbelievable that you know that. Yes, that's right. You always do your research. I love how cryptic it is every time. I do my research. What the hell are you talking about?

Yeah. Oh, wait, can I plug something really quick? Yes, please. ABC Parenting, which is my sort of web series thing. It's on YouTube and TikTok and Instagram. We're about to come out with sort of a second season, if you will. But there's going to be 55 episodes in the second season, and we're going to start coming out with it on like we're aiming right now the first week of September but we also have our whole first season which is online right now so check out ABC

parenting which as I might have said on John's podcast does have some S&L alum in it including Beck Bennett and Ellen Clegghorn and some other cool people like Erica Badu and Lauren Lapkis is in it oh Abby Elliott another SNL alum is in it and in case you're wondering ABC stands for anything but close. Yes. Excited. Arthur, thanks for coming back. This was fun, and we'll tell everyone this is an appearance. Awesome. Thanks so much. This is great.

Thanks for listening. Please subscribe so you never miss an episode. On Apple Podcasts, please rate it and leave a review. Be sure to go to late-nighter.com for all your late-night TV news. And you can find my podcast at late-nighter.com forward slash. podcasts. Have a wonderful week, and I'll see you next Tuesday.