Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Barry Katz

Episode Date: June 24, 2025

Manager Barry Katz discusses his comedy clients being hired on Saturday Night Live including Tracy Morgan, Darrell Hammond, Jay Mohr, and Jim Breuer, as well as Dane Cook hosting.    Barry's Official Website: https://www.barrykatz.com/   Barry's Blueprint For Success: https://www.barrykatz.com/#Blueprint Industry Standard Podcast: https://www.barrykatz.com/industrystandard Follow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/barrykatz Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BarryKatzOfficialPage/

Welcome to Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff. I am Mark Malkoff. Today, Barry Katz, legendary manager of some of the biggest comedians, Dave Chappelle, Saturday Night Live, Daryl Hammond, Jim Brewer, Tracy Morgan, Dane Cook. We talk about all of them and more. Now it's time to go inside late. Barry Katz, good to see you. All right. I can't believe I made the cut. You did. You are definitely here. I've been wanting to talk to you for. a long time. The summer of 1995, Saturday Night Live auditions, they had a really tough two years. You had a client, Jay Moore, to get anybody on that show was winning the lottery. And you get 23-year-old, 22-year-old Jay Moore on the show. They are going to be doing heavy, heavy cleaning to this cast. I mean, they're calling it the new cast, and it really wasn't a entirely new cast. It was six people that they hire, and you have some of the best comedy roster in terms of stand-ups in the country.

So this summer, you were taking your talent, and you have this relationship with Saturday Night Live, and you have people that have skill sets that are perfect for the show. Take me through your mindset. Take me through who your clients are and what your expectations are for these auditions. well first of all um if i'm not mistaken jay more was before nineteen ninety five jay was he was there from 93 to 95 and he was still under contract they would not give him that summer they would not give an answer if they were going to keep him or they weren't going to keep him they were still compensating him for that to keep him uh to keep him um in the running i know that they wouldn't give an answer for the longest time.

Well, I'll answer all of it for you. First of all, it's an honor being on the show. I really appreciate it. You know, some things are very humbling, and people always think to themselves when they're doing their own podcast, I'm just a podcast host. I can't believe this person, you know, came on my podcast. You know, it's the opposite. Whenever you're, whenever somebody invites you on to something and invites you to share their platform, it's an honor.

And I just want to let you know that and I appreciate it. And so, and getting back to the Saturday Night Live thing, I love talking about Saturday Night Live because as much as I know and I think I know about it, I realized that I know nothing and very few people know anything about it except the man behind the curtain and he's the one who knows the most about it and that's Lorne and so and to me I always felt like he was I don't think it's a it's a stretch to say the guy's a genius and but it's his party it's the parties in his home and he invites the guest to his party and as with any party

including yours mark when you have a party there's people at your party and where people are walking around and in their minds they're saying why the fuck is that guy at this party and then other people are like oh look at that guy in the corner with Mark yeah he's he's pretty tight with mark i can understand why he's at the party and and that's the way

it is so when somebody says to me you know who's perfect for saturday night live i i would bet that out of the hundred and seventy-five to two hundred cast members that there's been i would be shocked if Lauren, you know, could count on half a hand the cast members that were perfect. You know, it's very, very challenging the show because you're dealing with, like I said, the man, the myth, the legend, doing things the way he's comfortable doing them. And he doesn't have to do anything any other way. and if you don't want to do things the way he wants to do them there's always somebody else because it's all about the systems

and I think that's one of the things that's missing with people that they don't understand is that and I think one of my boys really drilled at home to me is that every successful business there is they have systems And so you wonder to yourself, like if you go to a Starbucks and somebody writes your name wrong on the cup and they are rude to you or whatever, you wonder to yourself, oh, my God, this is like, and then they're gone the next day and there's somebody in their place following the systems. And so that's all it's about. And SNL had its systems. And you've been through this a million times and so be your viewers.

So I don't think there's any reason to go through the Monday through Saturday system because you've been through it a million times. So I had a lot of people that I thought were right for the show. What I thought were right for the show, that's just me. And I was very confident and I was very persistent. But I had no relationships really with anybody at Saturday Live. But I was the kind of guy who would just keep calling, faxing, just FedExing. I would always do everything in my power to figure out a way to reach them.

And then so they would come to my club and do showcases. And they did. And they saw everybody from, you know, Chappelle to Jay Moore to Daryl Hammond, Jim Brewer, Tracy Morgan, you name it. And some people who I thought killed, and they would be on the show, they were on the show. Elon Gold would be the person I would think that you managed. His reel is unbelievable. If people saw his reel on YouTube of his characters, it was one of those things where you would say to yourself, I cannot believe this guy did not get hired.

He was unbelievable. Robert Smigel had him on Carby, but he was one of your clients, and he auditioned for SNL in the New York Post. I was there when he auditioned. He auditioned with, I believe, Laura Kightlinger at Stand Up, New York, and had a wonderful audition.

Farley was in the crowd that night, I believe. But again, it's not up to me. It's not up to Elon. It's not our party. So when you're putting your party together, you're putting people together. I look at SML in this way, and please excuse me for saying this for the people who are watching that are not sports fans. So what's happening is Lorne is every year is trying to put together his dream team. So he takes, it's like the NBA or whatever.

You have the best available people that he believes fit into certain slots. Just like the Olympic team for basketball. So Jason Tatum, first team All-Star last three years or whatever, barely played. You know, and Derek White, who is not as esteemed a basketball. player as Jason Tatum played more. Why? Because Steve Kerr was the Lauren Michaels of that team and he saw certain matchups and certain things the way they were and how they were supposed to be. And so Lauren in my mind, and again, I can't speak for him. This is what I perceive my perception of what it was. is that, so there's a group of young people who are, who are his farm team, his kernels of popcorn that he has on the side, that he wants to see if they can navigate through the political situations, through the office, through the back and forth, through the people who try to be negative, try to be positive, and the pressure.

and he has those people, those kernels of cop popcorn, those young artists. And that doesn't affect his show. It's like that doesn't, that's not a career-threatening group of people. So when Jay Moore started on the show with Laura Keitlinger or people like that, or let's just take Sarah Silverman or David Tell, that's your farm team. That's your farm team for the Boston Red Sox, who is now coming up to the big leagues now or whatever. Sorry to mention so many sports things.

And so he has that. That doesn't affect his show. It doesn't hurt his show. It doesn't help his show. It's just a situation where it's like, these are my people, and let me see who grows, and let me see who doesn't grow.

And then we'll just take those people out and put new people into the system. And the people who grow through the system move up, But then he also hires people like Will Ferrell, who I'm telling you, I was on the set at SNL. I can't even count the number of times. I swear to you, like, I never saw the guy look up. I never saw the guy show up. And I never saw the guy show any emotion.

I never saw the guy. I'm not saying he showed tremendous emotion behind the scenes and on the. set i meant like emotion like oh i blew that oh i that what oh my god what's lorne gonna think about me oh my god i can get fired nothing it's just no care in the world about anything just like paneling i felt the same way about sherry o terry except sherry o' terry behind the scene was more like just a live nerve endings of like oh my god you're like why aren't the writers doing this why aren't they doing that and you know but on when the when the red light went on there's certain people that just crazy like sherry o' terry that red light goes on it's over you know yes there's

feral the red light goes on it's over whereas somebody like tracy morgan and i i could say this if you're sitting next to me because he would agree with me when the red light went on it wasn't always happening and as a matter of fact one of his first pieces i remember because i represented him is he had this great piece on weekend update where he he did a montage of his biggest moments on the show and they were all waving good night at the good nights and so i thought that tracy was able to stay and navigate through humility he didn't even though he was from the streets he did not he had an amazing street smarts and had a doctor phil once told me this he's the greatest advice he ever received was from his father never miss an important opportunity

to shut up and and Tracy was that guy who just that wonderful street smarts combined with naivete and made him somebody who you didn't pick on so even though he wasn't really doing great he was just a sweet lovable huggable guy who yeah it took him a couple seasons i'd say at least two seasons to really get over with the audience it the timing was right. He was beloved. That summer of 95, they need somebody to do Bill Clinton and Daryl Hammond, if you shut your eyes, he is Clinton, he's Donahue, you've shut your eyes. I'll never forget my, I could tell you so many crazy stories and I think you've heard some through third hand or whatever, but let's just take the J. Moore thing first and then I'll go to the Daryl Hammond thing

because both are, even the Jim Brewer thing. It's, and Tracy Morgan, those four stories are the, if somebody were to ask me the four greatest stories of my career, they, I think those would be four, at least out of the top seven or eight. And so, start with Jay. Let's start with Jay.

He did a show called lip service on MTV. You edit together. a reel of that his stand-up and it's sent into the show and then he does stand-up at stand-up New York you were there

Lorne Michaels is there Marcy Klein I'm guessing maybe Mike Shoemaker I'm not sure who else take me through what you what happened

well from my perspective what happened was I'm I'm you know there and Jay comes in and it sees like

he's I don't know he's like sweaty he's like a I can't figure out what's happening. I think he's either wearing sweatpants or shorts or something. And I'm like, what, I'm like, what's going on? He's like, hey, I jogged here from home. I'm like, you live on St. Mark's place where it's 78th Street.

He's like, yeah, I just, I want to just jog up here. And so, and he's dressed like, you know, you think for an S&L audition, you're going to dress, you're going to be, you know, you're going to look a certain way. He just, he went in there looking like he didn't give a show. And then he did his set. And I've always told him, and I've always told everybody, you know, let your act speak for itself, go on stage, get out of there. So he gets off stage and he starts to jog home.

And Marcy runs out and says, you can't leave. You've got to wait for, you're going to wait for Lord. Marcy Klein, by the way, who, my favorite thing about Marcy. and there's so many things I could mention one of my other stories is Dane Cook and getting him to host the show and how she reacted towards me but she always had the mouth of a sailor and she was just always swearing one way or the other and one of the things I remember of Marcy to put a pin in the story for just 30 seconds I'll never forget she said this to me she said I said Marcy must be so exciting

being Calvin Klein's daughter. It's just, you know, it's like, I was kidnapped Barry. I'm like, okay, well, whatever. It's like so, but it must be really nice being, you know, that, you know, it's so exciting. She's like, Barry, let me tell you something. It's horrible. You know why it's horrible? Every time I go on a date and I bring a guy home and he takes off his pants, I have to look at my father's name.

Do you know what a buzzkill that is, Barry? Oh, man. Never thought of that. So let me keep going for Jay. So Jay meets Lorne, whatever. They offer him the show. And let's just, I'm not going to talk about his time on the show right now because this is the most important part of your story. So what Lorne often does, and I've experienced it many times, and he doesn't just do it with Jay, he's done it with a number of people, is that, you know, business affairs sends a letter. says, hey, we'd like to extend you a free extension for 30 days while we decide what we're doing with our cast.

So they sent the first letter, Jay was disappointed. He said, okay, Barry, no problem. Then July 1st comes around and get another letter. Jay was kind of like a little more irritated, like, oh, I like to know, you know, I want this so bad. Anything we can do, Barry, I call Lorne. I said, listen, you know, he really wants to do this. He can, he's going to be great for you.

Lauren's like, you know, I understand Barry, but I have to decide what I'm doing. Another 30-day extension. And then on August 1st, if I'm not mistaken, we get another one. And that's when Jay got, you know, upset and said, listen, Barry, I can't do this anymore. You got to tell Lauren that I can't extend anymore. I said, I don't want to tell Lauren that.

I want him to know that he can, he can have, you. He said, Barry, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it if he wants me. I'm here. He can come and ask me, but I'm not going to sign this for another month. I'm just not going to do it up until the date where they start. I just don't want to do it. I believe in myself. I'm going to bet on myself. And I want you to bet on me too. And I said, no problem. I'm with you 100% figured out. He doesn't sign the extension. I tell Lorne. And this is what how fate and tragedy are like your greatest friends who's ever listening. It's like, so no sooner than the notice, I tell Lauren he's not signing the notice.

I get an audition for Jerry McGuire. The first one was for the babysitter. Now, I don't know how much you remember this movie, how much your audience remembers it, the babysitter ended up being Donalogue cast and he was the guy with the jazz cassettes. You've got to listen to these jazz tapes. This is the greatest thing, whatever.

Jay didn't get that one. And the next audition comes in for it. They say, will he come back for the football player, the quarterback? So we auditions for the quarterback for Cameron Crow. He doesn't get it. Jerry O'Connell gets it. So

then get another call. Will he come back and audition for the Bob Sugar Roll. We wanted to do a screen test with him and Tom Cruz. And so they reenact the screen test at the table, the firing scene in the restaurant where

if you remember they focus in on a glass of ice water and whatever and he does it and he gets the movie. So now he passed on S&L signing the thing. He gets this movie with Tom Cruise.

and then when he's on the set with Tom Cruise it just snowballs because he's so hot and then he gets the call they want him to do Jennifer Aniston's first movie picture perfect and the funny part is he had to fly at the end of Jerry McGuire right to New York and his first scene up was his first makeout scene with Jennifer Aniston and so right before he got on the plane he went to tom cruz's trailer and he knocked them trailer and he said tom i got to go right from here to this thing and i don't even really meet her i go right in and i have to do the make-out scene and i got information from barry that her boyfriend tte donovan didn't get it and she's pissed off and she wanted him not me and what do i do i

kiss her, do I kiss her, you know, do I do the soap opera kiss? Do I do the open mouth kiss? Do I do the tongue kiss? Like, what do I do, Tom? And I'll give your audience a moment to guess which thing he said to Jay to do, but what he did say to Jay, Jay did, which he said, listen, Jay, whenever you're doing a scene with a woman like that, you do one thing and one thing only. You follow her leave. Whatever she does, you do. And so, and then his career just took off. So it was like a situation where for Jay, that was an incredible moment for me that I remember because, you know, you have the high of going to S&L and seeing guy with such great potential. You have the low of like a situation where he may not get back. You have the artist taking control over their career with

the power of no, and then manifesting, working with the biggest movie star in the world. Yeah, he had two seasons on Saturday Night Live as a featured player. Probably, I would say Christopher Walken, Andrew McCarthy. Chris Walkin, for sure, was his biggest standout. So he would have come back that. That would have been Will Ferrell's first season, that that's when he said, I'm not going to do this. And that's when Jerry McGuire and Bob Sugar.

changed his life and you were an EP on action on Fox which was way ahead of its time especially for network television and his just his career exploded it's an unbelievable thing and the fact that you supported him through it yeah it was it was an amazing time and i've i've worked with jay for probably 30 years uh i work him for 25 years and i work with him again through this extraordinary journey of sobriety and his new relationship and marriage. And it's like, it's amazing. It's truly amazing to see the transformation that he's made as a person and as an artist. And I will say this, it's like that's one of the greatest things about being a manager as well, because I used to represent these people when they were teenagers. And like, I just had gotten a text from Louis C.K. about a

month ago, inviting me to the improv to come talk with him and see him. And I hadn't seen him in 20 years. He was my first client ever. And, you know, you're standing across from, I mean, I know it sounds silly, but you're standing across from a man. And you have the memories of when you represented people as boys. And so, but I'll transition again to tragedy and comedy. everything having new with S&L has to do with these moments that are the highest highs and the lowest lows. So let's just go next with Daryl Hammond. They need somebody to do Clinton. And he was an absolute master that Phil Donahue was still on the air at the time. And in terms of somebody's skill set as an impressionist, I'd say Daryl

and Elon Gold maybe were the two best. I mean, I can't think of many other people that audition that season, especially, that had their skill set. Yeah, so Daryl he came into my office to meet me

about management. And I sat down with him and I said, what do you want, Darrell? He said, I came from Florida to New York to be on Saturday Night Live. I said, okay, well, then we're going to get you on Saturday Night Live.

And he looked at me like the dog looks at the answering machine because, you know, who has that kind of confidence? But the one thing about me that I don't understand and I never have understood is that I've always been able to meet artists and see something, you know, that's going to happen in the future. And it's happened like over 20, I think over 25 times where I met somebody who was like living in a studio apartment and they became like a multimillionaire in a household name. And it's like this weird thing. And I don't, you know, I know this sounds like.

cocky it's not meant to be it's not no if you look at your roster and the people that you that you started with it's it's unbelievable i mean we could do a whole hour or two on chapelle when he was a teenager showing up from dc to the boston comedy club and he does no friends to to bring to do the bringer show and he's on stage and jason steinberg jaw dropped and calls you and you get on a subway downtown to the club and it's this what was he 16 15 something like He was 17. I remember, I met him before the show started. And I shake his hand in the middle of the showroom when the lights were on and people were walking in.

And I said, how you doing, man? Great to meet you. I just want to let you know I would like to represent you. He said, what are you talking about? You don't even know me. You haven't, you haven't, you never seen me perform. you don't you don't i don't understand i said you know i just know and shaking your hand it's like it's like the dead zone i can see the future and you're going to be one of the biggest stars in the world in

comedy you're going to change the face of what comedy is and and um and you're going to inspire millions of people along the way and you're going to have more money than you can ever imagine and create shows and do specials and he was looking and he was looking at me like I was like I was crazy but but yeah so I so it just happened over and over again and and you know like I always say like you know maybe once you're lucky twice as a coincidence three times as a fluke but when it happens that many times there's something happening again I say this to your audience and I say this to you. We all don't understand everything that happens or why it happens or and I still don't understand

it. I look, you know, I mean, when I met Brad Williams, you know, it was one of the most exciting things for me because I had worked with disabled kids and adults and here this guy who's four foot four comes in my office. Now I'm sure a lot of people were like. disabled comics, not a big market out there for them, but I was just, there was something I just, I met him. I was like, man, you are going to, you are going to kill it. And now, you know, when I go to his house, I feel like, it's like a palatial mansion and I go to these theaters

where P,000 are waiting to meet him. And it's just, so I love that part of it. So going back to Daryl, so when I met Daryl, he was a little bit different. than the kind of artist that I would normally work with because he was probably closer to you know 40 and I was mainly specializing and working with younger kids teenagers or in their early 20s and but there was something about him and and I said let me have you go on at carolines and let me film you doing your impressions and I'll edit it together and I'll I'll send it to S&L. And back then, there were only certain ways you could get them your submission.

This is before the Internet. So this is before you, so they would only take things by FedEx or certain registered mail. You couldn't just drop things off or do whatever. And I remember this vividly. I was an editor myself, but I would like to sit with this editor I knew named Pete Klusman. He was like a war veteran, and he had this crazy office. And it was one of those three-quarter-inch tape editing machines that you'd edit with, and then you'd transfer it to a VHS tape.

And I have to get it to S&L by the next day, so I have to get it to FedEx by 9 p.m. is the deadline. And I remember I'm editing all, you know, from like five o'clock after work or six o'clock. And I'm thinking this is no problem. And the electricity goes out in this building. And I'm running all over the place to try to find the superintendent because it's not my building to get the turn back on. I finally get it turned back on. I finished the end of the tape. And I sprint down to FedEx.

I call my assistant, Lynn Getz, who is no longer with us. I love dearly. And she held the door open for me, even though they were trying to close it on her. And I ran there, and I got the package to, and it got there overnight. And we worked on his audition. And I remember sitting down with Daryl

because I was really great at putting together auditions and writing them, even though I've never been credited for writing a script, or a book or anything but i loved helping people write their stuff and he i asked them is there any character that you have that you that you haven't done on stage you know because you just don't have the material for it but it's great and he thought to himself and he know how darrell is he has that serious look and he said ted coppel i said okay we're going to do a night of line with Ted Cople and all your characters are going to come in through Nightline.

We're going to write that. We're going to put it together. You're going to audition. So then he audition, killed, and they wanted to go to 30 Rock at a certain time, and he was getting dental work done. And back then, you couldn't communicate to people as well. You couldn't, there weren't like these ways to communicate like there are now. So it's like, I remember he got to Estinnell late, and Marcy tore me in new colon.

She was so angry at me. She's, we're walking in. She's yelling at him. And I said, please don't yell at him. He's got to audition. He yell at me. It's my fault. I'll take the hit.

And he went in and he got the show. And the first cold open on the first episode of that season was Ted Cople. and so I'll never forget the adversity with Daryl and the things he went through which I'm not going to go through because we don't have time but and now he's probably one of the longest running people there he still does the opening that Don the legendary Don Pardo used to do so that's that's Daryl and then there's two more there's three more extraordinary stories that I'll tell you one one is with Jim Brewer yeah let's get to Brewer this was very you unique time because to my knowledge, this was the only cast member in the history of the show where Lauren Michaels did not want Jim Brewer as a cast member, but he didn't have as much leverage as he always did before because they had two rough seasons. And NBC was insistent on Brewer and Jim got the show. Now, at what point in the process did you realize that Lauren did not want Jim, but had to take him.

Well, again, those are stories and conversations that I presumed were the case, but. Jim said that they were, and I've heard from internally, I've talked to people, and it's been confirmed. If you don't want to talk about it, we don't have to. No, I love talking about everything. It's just like, I love when, people talk about things and they weren't in the room when the conversations happen. So, oh, well, you know, Joe told me that this is what happened. Well, were you in the room when that happened? Were you Jay Leno in the audiovisual room listening to the boardroom conversation?

I hear you. But I'm not disagreeing with you, but I have to tell you this story. And I hope that... You know, I have enormous respect for Jim. Jim, one of the absolute funniest human beings in person or on stage that I ever, I ever was around. And there's certain people throughout my life that I have great relationships with, even after I've represented them or not. and Jim's one of those guys that I have not really had any real dialogue with that much

and I have so much love and respect for him but I just you know there's some people you just but this story that I'm going to tell your audience I just can't even believe it myself but anyway so So the Montreal just for Lafts Festival is one year I didn't get anybody in. This is a legendary story

and this is so gutsy daredevil of you, a complete anarchist as somebody that does not have the power and you got the power. Tell everybody what happened. This is legendary. And this is that, you know,

it's coming from me. So you know, this is, it's the truth though and it 100% happened so so i was i was kind of disappointed because i you know i felt like i had great people and i was like oh my god i didn't get anybody in are you kidding me so then i started calling the comedy clubs that were that you know they would feature comedians in at that time like the comedy nest the comedy works whatever and and a bunch of them said no to me, but this guy, Ernie Butler, who's no longer with us, said, sounds like a great idea. Let's do it. He said, what do you want to do? He doesn't even know me. I'm on the

phone convincing there's no FaceTime. There's no Zoom. I'm on a phone call, an audio phone call, and I'm convincing this guy to give me three nights during the festival, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday for my showcases for 18 comedians that he does not know that are not part of the festival at all. These people travel, they get on airplanes. They spend so much money to be put up and they're giving a schedule. So you are... I convinced all these, I convinced these 18 people to pay for their own way and their own hotels to Montreal. And I was going to pack these rooms with industry. Now, again, there's no way to reach people like there is now. So I took out a full-page ad on the Hollywood Reporter and Variety, which at the time were hot, but it was like $3,000

an ad, you know. And then from those ads, I got the fax numbers of every executive in town, every agent, every television studio, every network, every producer, every single person that you can imagine. And I stayed up all night long, many nights pulled all nighters and faxed these invitations to people. That's the only way I could reach them. And I started putting these lists together and it was incomprehensible to me like hundreds of people. were RSVPing for these shows and it was crazy it was just so crazy in the orchestrate

these 18 people going on and after it was all said and done I got seven development deals for my clients and no one at the festival got any development deals Brewer Chappelle it's unbelievable and the festival

was not happy no they weren't i'll tell you about that too but so i i would have to take these meetings at places just because there's you know they don't have a car i'm got a car i've got to take so we'd have to take these meetings where they were like five people in a row taking meetings in a conference room trying to you know sell their wares or whatever to the people and jim was just getting back to Jim. Jim was so funny after he'd have this thing where the person would walk

out to get him and he would be lying on the floor sleeping, on the floor snoring. And it was like there's so many things that he did that were so incredible. And so he was offered a deal from NBC and the driving point person was

this woman, this wonderful woman named Amy Walpert at the time who was working with Warren Littlefield. and there were several other people, but she loved Jim. And so that was one of the development deals that was offered by NBC. And I'll never forget the situation that happened where Chris Albrecht at HBO, I had had a bad situation with him because there's, and I'd over. overcome it, and I offered him to, for Chappelle, to meet with him and I, for specials, a series, a show, because David had like seven or six development deals with Disney, with pilots that had failed in a row.

That's why Dave's company is called Pilot Boy, because he did so many pilots. long story longer meet with HBO and Chris Albreck who was there at the time Chris for your history lessons used to be the doorman at the improv long ago and became the most powerful guy network present there was at HBO

before Netflix and so we get offered a deal all-encompassing deal for Chappelle at HBO all-encompassing deal for Brewer at NBC. Things are coming together. It's like the most amazing thing. And then I get a call from Gene Blythe at Disney and Dean Valentine's Day. Hey, listen, I hear rumors you guys are looking at these other deals. Listen, do me a favor. Don't sign anything. I'm going to send you some first class

tickets. We're going to fly you out here. I said, I just got back from there. Whatever, you want to go back out there. Come on, Barry. Let's come on back out. Just don't do anything. We've had all these deals. We sit down with them. They offer a spin-off to home improvement. Home improvement was the number one show on thing, and they offered the show, which eventually became buddies with Matt Williams, who'd created Cosby, Roseanne, Home Improvement,

and he was like Chuck Lorry back then. And the guys decided that they wanted to work together and not work with NBC or HBO. You know, Chris Albrecht, I think he probably had a hit out for me. I mean, I don't think it took me 10 years before I could do something else with him with Dane Cook, you know, and he believed that I was going to do something. And so this is what's crazy. So we do the spinoff with home improvement.

We get our protected time slot. Back then, there's the TV guide. For those old enough to know, there was no TV guide on. the TV. It was like a paper TV guy. And you'd open it up full page ad buddies. And we're shooting our pilot episode. It's killing. People are loving it. It's unbelievable. Like Jim brought his whole family in. Dave's got family. It's just it's the greatest. It's the one of the greatest moments of my life. You know, who could who could not be happy with this moment. And I remember sitting back in the dressing room with the door open, watching them celebrate, you know, how you see people laughing with their family and, you know, drinking or whatever. And the phone rings in the dressing room. And I pick up the phone. I'm like, hey, how you doing?

It's Barry. What, Debbie? And it was Debbie Klein, who was the lawyer to Jim Brewer. And she said, Barry, how are you doing? I said, oh, I'm great, man. I wish you could have been here. It's fantastic. I'm so excited, Debbie.

This is incredible. I wish you were here. It's unbelievable. What? Come on, Debbie. Stop around. We're having a great. And she proceeds to tell me that Jim has been fired.

from the show they made the decision after the show ended they met and while they're parting on the stage there they made the decision that they were going to take Jim out because they

they didn't think that he was a strong enough actor to be able to make it work and I said Debbie what do you want me you want me to get him in here to tell him she's like no Barry I think it's better if you tell them And I'm like, oh my God.

So I thought to myself, how do I do this? Like, what do I, you know, because life has this way of just teaching you how to be through trial and error. And I looked out and I saw him with his family and having the greatest time. And I just said to myself, yeah. And I went out there and I had the greatest. time with him as well and I hang and partied with them and until the end until he went back to his hotel room and then before he went back to his hotel room because day was staying in the hotel I stopped by day first and I told him what happened and what I had to do and that I was going to

fight it as best I could but I have to tell Jim and but I wanted to tell him first because I thought that you know Dave was the original person at Disney and and he's the one who supported Jim and I wanted to let him know right before I walked into Jim's place because I thought maybe Dave might you know also have some words of thoughts or wisdom or something that because he was a young kid but an old soul and he was devastated and and there was no other thing to do but for me to tell him and uh and i did and i told jim and it was the most difficult uh thing i i think i've ever done in my my life and i i i is it was horrible and um i'm going to just just tell you this so i'm just going to put that right here for a second

matt williams keeps trying to meet with dave i'm trying i barely can get them together Matt sits down with him and says, Dave, I know you don't understand it, but if I recast this, we're going to have a show that's going to go seven years. And if it doesn't, I'll write you a check for $10,000. And Dave was still pissed off, but he kept going with the show.

They cast a guy named Christopher Garton, and the show got canceled, and I got a check in the mail for $10,000 from Matt Williams for Dave Shill, pile of boy productions but let's keep going here so imagine this imagine being with a girlfriend okay she's courting you for for months years she gives everything all her love to you and you walk away from her NBC and then you go to ABC the other girl in town that's a little maybe a tiny bit sexier a tiny bit prettier and a tiny bit more influential or whatever

moves your world and then you get fired and that old girlfriend says you know what i'm going to put all that behind and i'm going to fight for you to get saturday night live and that was what was amazing about Amy Walpert, an incredible person. I'll never forget her. She was just so good and Warren Littlefield. So, and so I got everything together, Jim auditioned, and I don't think he heard that he got the show until October 1st or 2nd. I mean, it was like the latest I've ever known anybody. It was really late. He had a dinner with Lorne, and they, in dress rehearsal, the first show, they gave him one, his own sketch that got cut and he had nothing to do the first episode other than he had one line. I think he said hello, which was to Mariel Hemingway when she was walking around.

And I mean, Jim had his dad there, his family. I mean, those first 10 shows the half of the season with Daryl and Jim and they're both your clients and they're struggling to get on. I mean, Daryl, again, Daryl's first, the first. cold open of the first season there he was on he was the lead guy in that sketch so I don't to me to me like I if somebody told me

hey Darrell you could you can be in all 10 episodes and have inconsequential stuff or are you going to have the cold open of the first show I'll take the cold open of the first show yeah he was very good with the night line with the nightline piece and they did update they did update together they both

did commentaries but I remember when Phil Donahue was leaving. Daryl wanted to do a commentary as Donahue and couldn't even get that on. My point is it takes certain cast members that took a while for them to get over and Steve Corrin saved Jim Brewer with the Joe Pesci show. I mean, that Anthony Edwards episode, which was December of 95, I mean, I couldn't believe it. I was like Jim figured this out. I mean, this is clearly going to take him to the next level of SNL. And it did. Errol as well as it progressed. It just took a little bit of time. But then you have only six people who are hired as new cast members and two stand-ups,

and you got both of them. They were your clients. That's unbelievable. I mean, they took two ground lanes, two second city people from Chicago, and all these people have clients from all over the place with their stand-ups, and you get both slots. That's unbelievable. Well, I, uh,

I don't know. It's just a way it worked out. Somebody has to be that guy. So at that time, I guess I was. But that's incredible. So Jim was there. And then I always felt like they wanted, they needed something to let him go or to do something. And I remember he did this sketch show for MTV or these characters for MTV that really pissed Lauren off. And then he did an article in a New Jersey newspaper where he, you know, was, I think there was quotations around the thought process that the writers don't necessarily write for him the way he thinks they could possibly write for him.

And so once they got word of that, it was very hard. And I'll never forget they were deciding on whether Jim to get the show or not. And you just reminded me of this. God, it's unbelievable. I was always great at writing letters. I loved writing letters, passionate, passionate letters. And I sat down at my typewriter. That's right, folks, a typewriter with my whiteout when I made a mistake. You know, and I typed a full two-page letter to,

Lord Michaels passionately lobbying for him to keep Jim Brewer for a third show. And Lorne called me, and he said, I want you to call me at this number at midnight. I'll never forget this. It's like I'm, and I'm calling, and it was a hotel, and it connected me to his room. And I always had this habit of saying, you know, what's up, young man? You know, it's, you know, and I never really like had the, I don't think I ever had the kind of relationship with Lorne that maybe other people had or whatever. I mean, I always always said hello, we always talked to the parties with the show. he's amazing to me he was extraordinary to me he believed in me and my eye and the artist

he changed my life forever even though he probably doesn't even think of it in those terms or maybe he does so he said something to me and it was one of those moments in my life where it was a wonderful moment and a sad moment and he said something to me and he said something to me and it was said um he said barry i just want to say something that was one of the most amazing letters i've ever received in my life it's it's the art of letter writing is as dead it's like a dying breathe and the fact that you wrote that letter and it was so passionate i i just want you know i so appreciated and it meant the world to me so i'm thinking okay i we're in you know I'm like, whatever.

And then he just says, but Barry, I just have to tell you, it's like, I'm, I know I'm the main guy. I know I'm the head guy. I know I have veto power over a lot of things. But sometimes when you, you know, you lose the people in the room, it's hard to unring the bell. You know, and it's like, I feel like a lot of the people in the trenches, felt betrayed by the fact of the not just a show that he was doing the characters on but the article and and i tried to turn them around but i i don't think i was able to do that and again i'm all you have is what people tell you that's all you have in your your life

and i tell this to your audience as well a great example that we all have you know when somebody feels something for you or you know when somebody wants to talk to you there's there's one time where you always know when you're walking through an area that's busy doesn't matter where it is in the world. It could be an airport, a bus station, a street, a Starbucks, a mall, and you hear, I'll give you an example, Mark, you hear, you're walking, and you hear, Mark, and you're like, when you're looking around, you're like, who's calling you, Mark? And then you realize it's somebody you haven't seen in a long time, and they called your name. Because they wanted to talk to you.

They enjoy talking to you. They feel safe talking to you. And that's how you know, because let's face it, how many times, Mark, have you been walking through an airport or a station or a Starbucks and you saw somebody and he knew when you're like, oh, let's get the thing. Did you see me today? Did you? Was that you? I can see this.

So the fact, you know, when Lorne calls back, it means a lot. He doesn't do that with a lot of people. I mean, the fact that he called you up. And he basically said, I could not get the support of the writers. I mean, Adam McKay has talked about this. Jim Brewer's talked about it. It's been talked about in public that Lauren went around the room and asked the headwriters, certain key people, what they thought about certain cast members coming back.

And McKay admits he said Jim had a great couple seasons, but he thought it was, you know, he basically did what he did and it was time to move on. And traditionally what would happen is, is that a performer, a cast member, if they were going to do an outside project, would go to Lauren first and ask him to produce their, whatever the project is.

And that was not done for whatever reason. Am I right or wrong with that MTV summer show? No, it was not. And we also had a movie we were trying to get. going with Tracy Morgan as well that was challenging as well. This is before the contracts, they changed

the contracts to have three films in each contract. But the bottom line is, and before we get to Tracy and maybe Dane Cook if we have time, is the thing

with every artist out there that's listening to this, and you don't even have to be an artist. You could be a landscaper, you could make cupcakes, you could have your own hat business. Whatever it is, you have to understand what your part is in everything and what the other people's part is. And then what's the truth and what really happened and how did it happen? And the bottom line is that you have to always follow the money.

And the money is where the power is. And whoever's paying for something, whoever makes the most money in the situation, whoever is the one who has the most, they're the ones that everything flows from. So whether it was all the writers, whether he went around the room and asked everybody what they thought or what they didn't think, the bottom line is that when it comes to a person who's in charge, the show is, a reflection of that person and you have to figure out how to navigate and know how to make things work. And whether it worked for you or not, you have to look at what it is. Will Ferrell has to look at why things went so well for him. He doesn't have to look at it, but if he wants

to analyze it, he could sit down and say, look, these are all the things that I did write. These are all the things, and I hate to use the word right or wrong, but these are all the things that I did that reflected favorably on me and gave me an advantage on the show. And these are the things that I did that weren't as favorable, but they were little things down here. They didn't affect anything. And so every cast member has to look in the mirror and understand how they assessed the situation and how they figured out how to navigate to survive. A lot of those cast members, though, almost all of them, if they wanted to, could feel slighted at any point and be demonstrative with being confrontational, where the smart ones

keep their mouths shut. I mean, Seth Meyers, that the best advice he got from Mike Shoemaker was whenever you're upset at SNL of another person, and this happens. just don't say anything and in 10 years you'll probably be at this person's wedding and he said it was the best advice and there are certain cast members like brewer has said publicly that with chris katan he believed katan took an idea of his and he was vocal about it and made a big deal about it whereas a lot of the other cast members stuff like that can happen and the ones that um i feel like maybe have a little bit more self-control uh perhaps have a little bit have a better chance of

staying and having longevity. Is that fair to say? No, it's it's fair to say in life. It's it's fair to say in life. Nobody gives what you think. Nobody cares about what you think and what anybody else thinks is none of my business either. What all that matters is get put my head down and do the best I can. And if a door closes here or somebody's not going to give me an opportunity here, figure out a solution. I always say to people, and they probably roll their eyes to me, whenever they want to do anything. Like, let's just say somebody, you know, says, whatever, I, you know, I can't get a job. I've worked for you, Barry, and then I go out in the workplace and I to you know this past month everybody says they all get jobs when they work with you

and I'm not getting a job and and and it's just I can't do it I'm writing I'm emailing I'm doing whatever and then I just say to them and it just could go for anything I say if your family and friends were being held hostage and the guy on the other line said you will never see them again alive until you get a job and you send me a letter from the boss saying that you got the job, then you're never going to see them again. Are you going to get a job? Yes, you're going to get a job. So if you say to anybody who goes into S&L, hey, listen, if you can't figure out a way to navigate, you're going to, your family's going to die. You'll figure out a way to navigate. You will figure out the lay of the land and figure it out, but a lot of people, they have a lot of

confidence in their ability and their talent in many situations. And it doesn't just have to do with acting or a show like this. Anybody listening, you have a skill set, you think you're great at it, but there's more things to a skill set, just like there's more things to American Idol than the singing. There's the interviews. You have to win over the world with your and, you know, cry and tell the people the adversity you've been through and how you're getting through and you're going to the top. And you can't, you don't, it's not just about the talent. It's another side. There is a way to conduct yourself. There's a Saturday Night Live cast member. I'm not going to mention their name. I'll tell you afterwards. They're very first show. They got

in lots of trouble because a good night, they elbowed their way to the very, very top, standing right next to whoever the host was or music right in the front and any other in entertainment to have confidence like that is a good thing but at a place like that when you're a new cast member and you're

a featured player and your first show there is a hierarchy and it just like a political move like that it just did not go well for this person right away. I found it funny for the 50th anniversary that a cast member who I represented

and I still represented I think they would come on here and they would say they weren't obviously one of the biggest cast members ever I'm talking about Dean Edwards and at the very end of the 50 because it's a live show so you don't know what that's happening

so he just finds himself shaking people's hands and then he's like up to the front somehow with Eddie Murphy and then the last shot of the 50th anniversary is him hugging Lord. It was the craziest thing. It's like... I love that. And nothing can happen to him. Nobody

can do anything to you at that point. You're like... Dean Edwards beat out Kevin Hart for SNL that season and that is an unbelievable story in itself. And I want to get to Tracy Morgan. I do want to mention to people that are

listening right now. If you want a master class and comedy, I heard Barry Diller talk about many times his education was in the mailroom and he was reading all the files, the history of show business. Industry standard, if you want to work in entertainment or you were just interested in the history, oh my goodness. I mean, this is, this is, it was a treasure. I really wish something like this existed that there were podcasts back in the day that I could get a hold of information like this, especially for younger people. I mean, who gets to sit down with Norman Lear and then Ted Sarandos and just everybody Apatow and just pick their brains.

I mean, it was the most, it's one of my favorite things to do is to go back to some of those episodes that I haven't listened to in a while. And you're such a good sport to have someone like Bill Burr roast you for 90 minutes. But it's unbelievable. But I want people to check that out. And we're going to get to Barrycats.com as well. and well it's the truth and you have this amazing treasure trove of showbiz stories with so many people that unfortunately aren't with us anymore but it's an unbelievable resource so check that out but

let's get to Tracy Morgan so this is the deal so Tracy Morgan it was the year after Will Ferrell's first season this would have been 96 and they're going to be doing auditions and they do not want to see another person. You have all these people on a list to audition, and you basically tell Marcy Klein, you have to see this person. She's like, no, we don't have room. And you do not take no for an answer. This is very, very cats. Take us through it. Well, that was really an amazing time. Again, thanks for giving a shout out, the industry standard. It was like something that I, surprisingly that's Jay Moore, who, who inspire me to do that because I did. his first episode of his podcast

and there was like 500,000 people listened and it was like a shot and he said listen I want you to my third, my 10th, my 20th and before I knew it I there were millions of people and he said you got to do a podcast and I asked everybody

in the industry I knew if I should do it and they said no don't do it no there's not any manager doing something like that you cannot even fuel me even more to do it and I don't think there still is a manager doing it or whatever but I just I just always wanted to help people I always wanted to be of service and in some way and I felt as a

manager you can only help one person you know you can help the network you can help millions of people laugh or do whatever but so I wanted to figure out a way where I could be of service and And it's all worked out. Even the FedEx envelopes, the people, that alone, if they're not in the entertainment industry, if you want somebody to make sure it gets to a decision maker, put it, mail it in a FedEx envelope. That was a thing that people would write you and email you. Thank you for the tip very. It worked.

And it was little of these. Who doesn't open a FedEx? I mean, there isn't anybody in the world that doesn't open a FedEx. You've got to spend some money. but if you want to make sure your message gets read it's it's going to go there and so um but anyway going on to tracy so uh so tracy came in my office he was managed by these people at the uptown comedy club in Harlem and his contract ended and he came to me came in my office he i'll never forget he was wearing it looked like he just worked under his car he was wearing he was wearing

one of those white t-shirts that's not white anymore with like mold like those holes in it from moss he had like dirty sneakers dirty shorts he had this uh i don't know what you call that thing on top of your head with the propeller that goes around and um he said listen i live in the projects and um with my four kids and my girlfriend and it's dangerous and I want you to help me get out. And I said, no problem. I'll figure out something. And I edited together a video.

I was a great editor, like I said, of these scenes he did on Martin as Hustleman. And I sent them around, and I got him a $60,000 development deal at the WB network. And it helped him move out of his place in the projects and do a high rise in Yonkers, I believe on the water. And then I told him I thought he could do S&L when he was, you know,

didn't think that he had a chance. And I put another edited tape together, sent it to them. And it was a really great year I had, they were auditioning 16 people at the comic strip. And I had seven of them. I had seven people auditioning out of the 16. And so I got a call from Marcy Klein with Lorne. Lauren didn't say much.

He was listening on the phone. Didn't really say much. And Marcy said, listen, Lauren really appreciates everything that you've got so many people auditioning. And we appreciate your eye. But Lauren wants to keep it to 15 comedians. And we assess the situation and we determined that. There's one comedian who has the least chance of getting the show. And I said, you can't, I don't want to even hear it.

You can't do that. I've worked hard with these people. I've been preparing them. And she said, Bear, I'm sorry. It's Tracy Morgan. I said, you can't do that. I've been working with him. I've been preparing him because one thing I didn't tell her right then is that he never worked

a white audience in his lifetime. This would have been the first time he ever worked in front of a white, audience and I was preparing him in my office. There was an empty office next door to mine that they just moved out. And every day I'd have him come up for an hour and we'd go through the audition process and the bits and what to do. And she hung up on me and said, I'm sorry that you're going to have to take them off. And I didn't tell him. I kept calling SNL. I kept faxing them, FedExing them, doing whatever, messengering them. And they, and they didn't take any of the calls and it was like four o'clock the day of the showcase and marcy

finally picked up the phone and i'm like oh marcy oh thank god i'm so grateful i have pretty shut the barry and i'm like marcy come on i just i was said shut you call in here this is saturday night live okay you don't call here a hundred times messenger stuff you don't do that I said, Marcy, but Tracy Morgan, you got to put him on the show. You just have to put them on it. Barry, shut up. I'm like, no, I can't shut up, Marcy. I need this to happen.

I'm telling you, he's going to get the show. It's going to make it happen. Please, Barry, shut up. And I shut up. And there was silence on the end of this line. And for like, it seemed like an eternity. and she said he's on the show Barry I said oh oh Marcy

oh thank you so much I'm so grateful I so appreciate you oh thank you so much and there was a pause on the phone and then she said and this is how I remember it she said Barry if he doesn't get the show burn my phone number and she hung up.

And that's the way I remember it, you know, because she always was so good to me and so lovable and huggable to me, but she also with me. She had this thing where you just never knew were you. And

I love that about her. So that night, when Tracy auditions with all those other people, does he do better than, it's hard to tell sometimes because everybody says when Dana Gould auditioned with, I think it was with Sandler and Schneider, everyone thought Dana Gould was going to get it in Spade, but Dana Gould did not get it. Did Tracy stand out that night compared to everybody else in your mind? Yeah, because he was very physical

and he was very street and it was so new to this white audience that they loved it and he really killed. I mean, there were people who did really well and they went and they also got to test at 30 Rock. People like a guy named Macyo tested. Daryl tested that night. You know, on that comic strip show, I don't know why they had them, but they did. There were a lot of people on that show that

that did well, but he did really, really well. And then he ended up getting the show. He was like, I think him and Daryl, if I'm not mistaken, I could be wrong, you would know more than I could. It was him and Anna Gassiter. Daryl was the season before, so it was, um, they brought Anna and from the, from the groundlands. Thank you so much. So Tracy was the only one, he was the only one on that, thank you, that's what editing is for. He was the only one on that showcase that got the show and they thought that he wasn't going to get it.

You know, so that's fascinating. an unbelievable success story and it was one of those things where he it took him at least i would say his third season before he really got over with the audience and um once he did i think it was a t-shon shannon piece when he would uh interact with lorence and say go get me a sprite and play himself and i just he it took him and then the brian fellow sketches which was hugh think and then i um went from hugh and then it went to tim hurley he and then t-shan once early he left and he really shined and found his voice

it's just it took him a while yeah yeah and so I can't leave you without telling you the Dane Cook story I want to know this so Dane Cook I do know that he

when he auditioned for SNL he was a nervous wreck correct didn't he just didn't he leave during his audition I don't ever remember Dane Cook to be nervous. I remember him to be

distraught about things in life and how the world was and his place in it. But I've never really felt that he was nervous about anything. I mean, he was

and when he finally auditioned for SNL, which he wasn't sure he wanted to do, was at the comic strip, and he He had a fan base then. And so there was like 500 or 1,000 people outside the comic strip. It was insanity. And Lorne came in with Steve Martin to watch the show.

And Dane killed. Had an amazing time. Did not get called to do the show, though. It wasn't asked to be a cast member, which was the best thing that ever happened, because then Dane went on to do so many other incredible things. Like host the show? How many people get to host SNL? I mean...

Well, one of the things that, again, these are just stories that you can't... You know, I'm a guy from Boston. I've been working comedy clubs. I was working with the reverb for a guitar comic and a basement. And now I'm working with a guy who tells me, listen, we got to build a website. I'm like, what's a website?

He's like, listen, I'll show you. I'll show you the U.S. Army site. I'm like, the U.S. Army. He's like, yeah, that's the only one that there is. And I watch it with him. He's like, find me that guy and have that guy build my site. I said, Dan, I don't really think, I don't know, please. The guy wanted $25,000, the toughest negotiation I ever had to get him down a little bit.

he did Dane's side and then Dane said we're going to go on my space I'm like who space what space he's like revolutionary absolutely revolutionary he would personally message people back and forth the first 15 the first 15 vows and he would reach out to and answer and so and so my space was music I'm like this is music he says don't worry I'm going to put my stuff on and then you can say damecook.com at the end whatever and I was there when you know, I went to, we went to Chris Albrecht to sell the idea of him doing vicious circle and orgasm. And, and he just bet on himself. And it's like, this guy had never done, you know, more than the comedy club, except maybe a college theater or something like that. And now we've

got two shows at Boston Garden, 38,000 people we have to fill. And this guy just presses a button and sells out the whole thing without Ticketmaster ever putting it on sale for regular people. It was his codes that he had. It was crazy. So anyway, long story longer. And one of my favorite expressions of Dane when he tried to get things going and he was passed on so many times, this is why I don't believe anybody saying he was nervous or whatever. He would sit down with me and this is the thing I'd love.

love that he said to me and and something your audience should know about dame cook when i went to his house for the first time he he said i i get going to go to the bathroom barry just hang out here and i'm standing by his office and you know that thing when you're in somebody's house and you're kind of like and you kind of back into where the place is you look around whatever he had like all these posted notes all over his office. And I couldn't really see what they were. And he was in the bathroom. And I was like, let me back in here and see what these things are.

And I just take them up. I'm going to do Letterman. I'm going to do a sitcom. I'm going to do films where I'm the lead for a major studio. I'm going to sell out Boston Garden. I'm going to sell out Madison. Square Garden. I'm going to have albums that go double platinum. Like he was a manifester, but I didn't know it. I never saw those before.

I'm going to be on Saturday Night Live. And so I was trying to get him on Saturday Night Live as a stand-up because he was so hot. So I was calling because they wouldn't give him the hosting spot. And so I kept calling. I said, why don't you do the things you used to do, with like Sam Kinnison, bring him in. He'll do some stand-up or whatever. You don't have to. Damon Waynes. After he was fired, they brought him back to do stand-up.

Stephen Wright, I think, did stand-up on... Yeah, I said, let's do that. If you know, you're not going to give him a host thing, I can't get him the host, whatever. And then I'll never forget, I got the call from Marcy, and she said, this day in open, November, or whatever it was, before Thanksgiving. And I said, yeah, yeah, he is, Marcy.

how many sets do you want him to do you want him to do one set you want to do two set she's like barry he's hosting i'm like what you told me there was no chance in hell he was ever going host and whatever she's like barry he's hosting it was huge stand-ups now it's napragazi bill burr but back then for a stand-up to get that just off uh being known as a stand-up it just really did not happen maybe dice clay back in the day in 89 or 90 whenever it was but I mean it was unbelievable remember when I when I found out he got the book in I was like this guy has arrived yeah and then we got the booking for the open the premiere of the next season so less than a year we're doing this and this is what this is the story that oh my gosh I can't

when I think about this is crazy so So, well, first of all, one of the most exciting things about S&L is something that a lot of people don't get to experience. And I was fortunate enough to because it's like a, you know, when you go to like, let's say a huge casino, this amazing casino and it's like every single thing is pristine. It's beautiful. It's like this is legendary. and then if you really are working in the entertainment business they take you behind the kitchen to go a certain way and then you're going behind the kitchen and it's like god is this where kennedy got shot this is like this is like a dive in here this place so when dame the first time he did it like this is the way i remember it you know i walked with him back to where you walk out on stage and you think in your mind like you're gonna walk this is where i'm all the hosts go this is oh yes under the bleachers and then you're behind the doors the monologue doors this really nice hallway whatever so you're walking through the cue card people painting things

they're going crazy these people are like one step away from suicide they're just they're just constantly doing you know whatever then you go through all where they're building the sets and painting the sets and then you're going through this crawl space that's like picture two by fours and paneling and screws and sawdust, and you're crawling through this, not crawling, you're walking through this crawl space where you have to go sideways to get to this door and he's got the producer,

one of the producers with the headset, and Dane's right by the door. I'm just like, hey, man, have a great set. And then you hear Don Pat Pardo. Ladies and gentlemen, Dane Cook, and then the door opens and the producer closes the door. So nobody can see the door on the other side.

And then you walk out like your hope a nail doesn't catch your suit or whatever as you're on your way out. So anyway, so that was a part that I was like, holy, this is like, this is like that thing in the Wizard of Oz, you know, don't mind the man behind the curtain. So anyway, so that, I believe it's this premiere show or whatever. And it might have been the first time, so please forgive me. But this is something that I'll never forget as long as I live. So on Thursdays, they do the block and tape. And for those of you don't know what that is, they have these, every sketch has certain camera angles where the director wants.

They put the tape on the floor and you know where you're going to go for each sketch on a live show. And they have the host normally do his monologue in front of the camera crew and the sound people. you know and dan said listen barry i'm not going to i'm not going to do the thing that you know i know what i'm going to do just submit this to them and i'm going to do and they allowed him not to do it on thursday and just wait for the dress rehearsal so he gets on to do the dress rehearsal show at 7 30 and he's doing the routine that we rehearse and he has two bits at the end one of where he saw his dad naked and uh with a robe on on the at the table and it was some kind of joke where you know when he saw his penis it looked

like something going around the tower the vein going around the tower whatever something like that crazy joke like that and then he did the joke about the coming um down to after sleeping and being hungry and realizing that he had an erection and there were cashews on the counter and he took a cashew and put it on the end of his uh cash as he would say his cash and prizes and pushed it down and popped the cashew up and into his mouth so those are the final two bits he did which were not cerebral at all they were just like they were they were they were I'd say they were intelligent jokes or dirtier jokes

and I'm there watching him and halfway through he's killing so hard before he does these bits that I just decide to go around and just go in the dressing room and kick my feet up and just I am like this is the greatest moment of my life I'm like this doesn't get much better than this this is incredible

I'm watching on TV he's killing does those two final bits and I'm like because I know he's going to be running around from place to place getting his make and I'm in there with my feet up and there's this noise this bang and the door kicks open I don't know if you've ever seen the door kick open

but it just kicks open and just keeps banging against the thing three times and I'm just like what the and I sit up and it's Marcy Klein and the head of standards and practices and for those you don't know what that is that's the person who

determines what's not able to get on air and what is and Marcy again like the way she did with me she'd be like who the do you think you are do you think that he's going to get on a live show

like that I will pull him off this show Barry this is not happening it's never going to happen you better tell him that he cannot do those bits or else I am going to take him off this monologue

and I'm like Marcy I just thought that this would be great it killed you saw you got like a standing ovation I don't care this is Saturday night live you can't just do what you want to do and she

slammed the door and again one of those moments that seems to be the recurring theme of this whole interview is I'm just like oh my God this was the greatest moment of my life and now I have to figure

out how is this moment going to be solved so we can move forward into something better and I'm just thinking to myself this is bad because I've got to tell him but I don't want to tell him in between his dress rehearsal bits because then I'll have his mind for the

things so i have to wait until he gets done with the good nights of the rehearsal show and get him right away and tell him before he goes up to loren's office for the things and the way i remember it is i'm about to tell him and thinking how am i going to figure this out so he's you know empower him and with the edits or whatever it's going to be be because he knows there's going to be edits he knows things there's going to be cut and lorn uh comes and this is how wonderful lorne was and how i have so much respect for him he says dain standards and practices are are pretty upset and i'm like yeah dane i was going to tell you but I just I didn't want to ruin that it's like don't worry about it

what's up Lauren those last two bits they're very upset and they want you not to do those two closers and he's like or now those are my closers and then Lauren this is what Lauren said and this is why he he said Dane listen pick one pick one that you want to do and get rid of the other one and i'll handle it behind the scenes myself with marcy and everybody else you just do what you do but let's do a compromise just do one and he decided to do the cashew bit and uh and and then they you know the way i remember it. That was the first time he was on the show. And then that's when Lorne had a relationship with him where he brought him back for the... So after good nights in the hallway or at the party,

just Marcy then come up to you afterwards and give you a hug? Or is there a celebration, the acknowledgement that, you know, everything came together and it was a huge success? I would, uh, at the party, yes, but I was always the kind of person. who no matter what somebody could like somebody could stab me in the shoulder and i'd be like hey man it's okay i love you we're going to get through this i'll just get some stitches and everything is being okay nobody has to know about this and let's just because i just felt like it's better to handle things with love and kindness than it is to handle things any other way and so even if they don't go well for you even if things don't come together then people will always remember that you were

calm and you felt love and you gave them love i remember this old thing that i forget but it's it's like something somebody said to me a long time ago i'm sure it's written on the walls of cave And I'm sure that if we scrub our Instagrams, we'll probably be able to find 7,000 different ancient monks saying it. But all you have to worry about in your life truly is that, you know, do you bring happiness and inspiration and kindness and love to people? and, you know, and do you experience love, kindness, and joy in your life as well? And by always being positive, I think it's a great feeling because it allows you to experience both those planes equally. But a lot of your clients, a lot of your clients are not like that, so they were lucky to have someone like you to talk them off the ledge and to be around that the positivity because some

of the most they look confident when they're on that when the camera is on but a lot of those people people would be shocked i mean it's some of the the people um that they don't have that but you're lucky that you're wired like that or you've gotten yourself to that point i mean it's amazing um i would say your client your client on letterman had the best stand-up debut of anybody in the 25 years on CBS, which was Jeff Ross, in terms of an audience reaction in 1994, that fall, I've never seen somebody crush with an audience. And he was your guy. It was the 13th of some, what month was it, 13 with Jeff's favorite lucky number. And it was last minute, you're on a plane with him going over the set and you're telling him

what he should, the order of everything. And, I mean, we don't have time to get into. this but I mean just the fact that Dave Letterman wanted to meet with Jeff afterwards and I mean it's we don't have time for all of that but I mean it's unbelievable the talent that you saw that you worked with

and it's the results that you've gotten for these people. I love Jeff Ross and just again so your audience knows it's like always understand that the possibilities are just endless

And even when things seem like just it's like so bad and it's so you can't see anything possible that's going to happen good from anything, it does. You look at Jeff what you're talking about. He does Letterman. Letterman offers him a sitcom. And then I get back to my office. Again, this is the running theme.

it seems of my life. I go back to my office. I'm like, oh my God, this is like the great. This is unbelievable. Letterman offered my client. I mean, his own show. This is crazy. Dave was the biggest thing in television at the time.

For the people that are listening to the younger people, there was nobody bigger in TV at this point than Dave Letterman. And he had a deal with CBS and World Wide Pants had not had a sitcom. yet but this was this was going to be the first that's so right so here's the running thing i'm sitting there on my office 57th and broadway i'm like happy phone rings it's uh glenn padnick from castle rock seinfeld i mean what are you going to say it's seinfeld's production company I just saw the feed on Letterman. I want to meet with this guy.

Let's fly out. And so we met with him. We met with CBS and Letterman. And I remember Les Moonbezz calling me and saying, listen, Barry, I just want to tell you something. I've been in the place where you're at a lot. And it's a very challenging place. I love David Letterman.

He means so much to me. I just want you to know that I don't want to lose Jeff Ross. So just promise me, whatever you do, do it at CBS. And then he sent me, sent us both CBS jackets and World White Pants Jackets. And now Jeff decided to do a pilot with the late Kevin Rooney with Castle Rock, which didn't get picked up. and the next comedian on letterman ray romano yeah i mean and then ray of course i mean an unknown um unbelievable yeah just so your audience knows so now jeff is at a lower moment because things didn't happen but ray is at a higher moment but one of the things that i haven't even

told you is that before that happened with ray he got cast in news radio and he had the job and he went to the table read and after the table read he was fired and they hired joe rogan and then joe rogan's career launches so it's unbelievable to look at that yeah life is a series of incredible moments and just you can you can look at the entertainment business but you can look at anything any business you can figure out a way to to take something that's not as positive and make it positive it's it's incredible the things that can happen you know you don't a lot of people don't even realize this but you know car C Warner they worked at ABC they started their own company together They're over a shoe store on Ventura Boulevard.

Okay, they went to Cosby. It was a guy they wanted to do a show with. They put the show together. What did they do? They went to their old bosses at ABC. Hey, this is a slam dunk. Here you go. They passed.

Then they go to NBC. NBC's the fourth network. They become number one with Cosby. So then their next person they develop is Roseanne. So what do they do? They bring Roseanne to NBC. They say, hey, listen, we're doing this with Cosby. Here's Roseanne.

Let's do the NBC says, no, thank you. We don't. That's not for us. They go to ABC. She goes to number one. It's unbelievable. Universal Amphitheater. They had all the networks there to see her.

It was her and Louis Anderson. And she was represent Louis. I love Louis. Yeah, Louie was such a nice man. But yeah, Roseanne said some very off-color things during her set. she ended with at the Universal Amphitheater and I think she scared some people but I give I give yeah ABC

made the absolute right decision obviously I have so many more things to ask you and I know that you I guess we'll do it again will you come back oh my gosh I'd be so honored I want to mention that everybody needs to go to barrycats

dot com right now now if you or anybody that wants to perform if you want to write if you want to produce blueprint for success you're not going to do anything better than this all the information is there and if somebody has a vision if you have dreams or if you just want to be in the right direction who's going to know more than somebody that has lived this for several decades and has been on top industry standard you have to everyone has to check that out but definitely a blueprint for

success has been has helped a lot of people and I want everybody to check that out Yeah, it's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun, like just putting something together because you can't help everybody. So you've got to figure out, okay, how can I help as many people as I can without compromising myself as a manager or a film and television producer? Like I'm working on a film right now with the guy who wrote diehard, Jumanji, and Armageddon. And, you know, I want to, you know, I love doing stuff like that or work I did, you know, just television shows. specials. I love managing, but I don't want to stop helping people. So if there's a way I can figure out how to help people get through the minutia of it all and not make the same mistakes that most people make, I love to do that. But I love the business. I love everything about it. I've loved this conversation. You reminded me of so many things of the comedy and tragedy of it all. but through it all, I'm still smiling, and I hope that I live another day in this business. No, it's unbelievable, Barry. I'm so glad we got to do this. Thank you, sir.

Thank you. What a pleasure. I'm so grateful. Thanks for listening. Please subscribe so you never miss an episode. On Apple Podcast, please rate it and leave a review. Be sure to go to late-nighter.com for all your late-night TV news, and you can find my podcast at late-nighter.com forward slash podcasts. Have a wonderful week, and I'll see you next Tuesday.