Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Bill Carter Interview: Have I Got News For You EPs Jim Biederman and Jodi Lennon

Episode Date: October 3, 2025

Have I Got News for You EPs Jim Biederman and Jodi Lennon tell Bill Carter how they navigate ‘the chill’ in late-night comedy — and keep the show joyful when the news is anything but.” 

Well, welcome everybody to a special conversation with Bill Carter. It's not a normal conversation. This is going to be a special conversation. And it is kind of a special conversation because the guests today are two special people. This is the creative team between CNN's really fascinating and, I think, growingly popular show called Have I Got News for You, which plays on Saturday nights and has a fantastic roster of talent. And let me introduce the guests. We have Jim Biederman, who has a long history in shows like Kids in the Hall, and he worked in Howard Stern.

And most notably, he worked on the British. He has brought the British show after multiple efforts, as we recall in a previous conversation, to America. It is a British show in case you don't know. And Jody Lennon, who was a performer, a Second City performer, has worked on shows like Billy in the Street and at home with Amy Sedarisson is obviously a writing force and a creative force. So welcome, guys. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks. Yeah. And we have chatted before about the show during its first year. And I'm sure you're happy to be back for a second year. Not that you

knew what to expect. So what have you learned in the first year, guys? What do you think you've learned from the first year. Oh, that's a good question. The news moves fast, to say the least. Yeah. What else have we learned, Jim? Well, you know, so Jimmy Mulville, who created the show, who owns Hattrick Productions in England. Yes. Also a prominent independent production company. So he knows the show backwards at Forest. He's been on the air for 35 years there and continues to be a top-rating show on Friday nights. there. And, you know, we've talked about how the mood just gets darker and darker and darker in this country. And the last two weeks have been very dark. And how do you pick your battles comedically? Because we should start the whole thing by saying, we are, and we don't

use this as an excuse. We are a comedy show. I mean, that is what we are. We're not a news show in any way, even though we have news in the title. We do serve a purpose for a lot of people who, unlike us, nerds, don't spend every waking hour looking at the news. So when an audience member comes in and they usually learn stuff, probably stuff they don't want to learn. And so that's where the comedy comes in. We lessen the blow, right? So how do you do comedy? How do you do comedy how do you pick your battles how do you pick your topics like i said this last two weeks were very challenging for all of us not just our show but all the late night shows how do you talk about what happened how do you what are your targets do you not you just ignore it yeah um and so

uh that's a lot harder than the first season because up to that point i would say we only had six we only had if we were on for 20 episodes last year which we were or the kind of broadcast year fall to spring only half of those shows

had Trump as president right so halfway through our first 10 we knew he had won and you know he was still he was still all

fun in games and then the second 10 right so January February to whatever we went to became increasingly more, I mean, on the one hand, from a comedic point of view, it's shooting fish in a barrel, no pun intended, but at the same time, it's, it just gets darker and darker and darker. So you really have to figure out, what am I going to say in this joke? How am I saying this joke? Who's the angle on my joke? I mean, everything becomes heightened importance of how you do it. And only a portion of our show is written.

It's a panel show. So we can present stories, we can frame them any way we want or the best way we think. But at the end of the day, it's a conversation between a group of people, which we don't control. So that is one of the pieces that's complicated too. The luxury we have is we tape for two hours and never had it down. So when people say, and we say this to our guests, look, say whatever you want, that's fine, one of two things will happen. You're going to come up to us at the end of the episode and taping and say, you know, that thing is, this is not a gotcha show, so no problem. It doesn't make us look good to make you look bad.

And the other thing is we do make editorial choices lots of times, four times. Sometimes there's things that are just too over the edge. Yeah. Sadding conversation. But I think what translates on the air is what seems like a very, and it is freewheeling conversation. And the reason it does is because it is a freewheeling conversation. We've trimmed it. I think spontaneity kind of is essential to make it really work.

Correct. We should point out for people who don't know that you have three regular cast members. you have. Roy Wood Jr. is your anchor, I guess. He's our host. Your anchor and your host and Amber Ruff and Michael Ian Black are your other regulars, all of whom are very funny people. They're fantastic. So you have, you know, Roy doing essentially a monologue to start.

And so there you have jokes written, et cetera. And then your panelists are witty people who come in with their own comments. And then you have two guests, often some sort of. a political, is it always a political person? Usually, or a journalist or somebody who knows the news. And then a comedian or someone else on the panel. And then there's a

sort of faux game element to it, which is just for fun. So if you haven't watched it, you should watch it. It's very entertaining. So particularly, you mentioned how dark it's been, Jim, and we had an assassination, which was awful. And then we had the whole business

with Jimmy Kimmel, which was clearly a threat, I guess, to anybody in comedy. I don't know if you guys felt that way, but it certainly was his point of view and many others' point of view. I don't know how that affected you guys, if at all. We haven't talked about this. How have you felt? Because we're just busy getting a show done. So we don't have time, unfortunately, to say, I don't know how I feel about it.

Yeah, it's, we haven't. checked in. Thanks for checking in now, Jim. Yeah, I mean, I can't stand her, so I don't really want to know what she's thinking. It has felt like, you know, freedom of speech is being threatened, and so that has been super depressing. But I do think that we've been doing a great job with how we've been carving out those conversations. And to your point, Roy, Amber, and Michael, last week's episode, talked about it eloquently, hilariously, what other adverbs do I have? But it's just they were really good at how they spoke about the situation. And we had Adam Kinsinger, who's a former

Republican, and who is also quite eloquent. He jumped in, he jumped in a lot. Yeah, yeah. We've had him on before. He's a really interesting guest. Yeah. Because he, I think at one point, Amber turns to him and says, you know, ever since you left Congress, you just talk mad shit, and I love it. And he says, I'm free. And we've had that other Charlie Dent. We had Charlie Dent from Pennsylvania. And he said at one point, and he was all over, it was hilarious. And someone said, how come you're not like this when you were? And he said, I'm free. And it's this, honestly, it feels a little, unfortunately, damning about our political process that the people who are in it, when they leave, feel, and these are the words they use, free, I'm out of prison, all those metaphors. They can speak openly.

Yeah, and it's a shame. That said, now put on all the other stuff on top of that, and it's a heavy weight. I think the week after the Charlie Kirk assassination, and even last week, I would wake up every morning thinking like, is that joke too far? Like, it's more so than normal. Yeah. Well, obviously, the one question that's looming over all this is the idea that comedy is going to be chilled by threats or just by self-censorship. Probably more to the case. Yeah, that may be more of the case because you have to walk this line.

What is offensive? What is an offense? And it's not, none of it was, I don't think Jimmy Kimmel said anything offensive, by the way. I think people interpreted what he said as insensitive maybe. But of course, he has the right to do that anyway. Correct. We should stipulate. But in your guy's case, you can edit it out.

You can say if one of your guests, for example, says something that you feel like is really not exactly. Usually it's Michaelian Black, by the way. And to be clear, it's not, we don't cut like really controversial stuff from the show. It's not, it's a really rare occasion. Jenny Hagel once said something bad about Pokemon cards, and she wanted it cut from the show because it would hurt her son's feelings. And so it's more things like that.

And maybe we should cut that from this episode. I was going to say I took note at the top of the show last week. Everybody was playing the same game that the late night guys did about. The phone call, oh, we have to not say that. We can't do that. They were like making fun of the chill. Yes. Which I think is a great, I think it's going back to Jimmy Melville,

he will repeatedly say to me, dictators hate comedy. it's it's a stronger weapon for them than an actual weapon because if you devalue their image and that's what comedy does um they they feel power they feel their powers being taken away and then they become then they scramble so you run that risk of doing what you're doing in the service of uh ideally democracy and then their pushback is going to be harder and harder i i i want to say one thing about where we are the context of where our show exists. We're on a news channel. Yeah. Right. Which is a lot different than being on ABC or NBC or any of those, even Comedy Central. And so to that extent, on Monday through Friday, I mean, Abby Phillips show is, I would say, much more contentious than ours.

Laura Coates-Live. Yeah, yeah. But this is where, this is that double-edged sword. Yeah, but you're doing comedy, and that's worse. Like, you're making fun of this. These people are having serious conversation. And CNN never says that. But that is the internal monologue going, well, on Abby Phillips, they talk about it.

You know, on her show they talk about, they talk, they go deeper into these conversations that we do. Yeah. We have conversations and then it's a beat of a piece and then we go on to, because again, there's so much news. And then we go on to another topic that can be just as complicated, Venezuela. or, I mean, it's wild, the amount of news that we're talking about. Exactly. And, you know, but on the other panel shows that are on CNN, because there's no comedy around it.

Intentionally. That those shows go into them deeper. And so I would say psychologically and editorially from a perspective of the CNN, we're not that different from the rest of their shows. So it's a, it's kind of very, it's very refreshing to be on that channel with this show. And then they, you know, they run repeats of Vilmar from, from their sister channel, HBO, from Friday nights, which does very, very well. And same thing. It's a panel, it is kind of a panel universe that they live in, which is, I will say, in selling the show over the last 20 years, it's, it is that thing where in England they have panel shows. We used to in the 50s and 60s.

don't. It's like it's been erased from our memory. And so, like for instance, the gameplay, which is BS, no one no points. Nobody wins anything. There are no points, count. You know, I think I told you this last time. I did a Graham Norton panel

show for BBC America, and we had Cindy Lopper, was one of our guests. And before the taping started, Graham made a joke that, you know, answer correctly because you're going to win a car, which of course everyone laughed except for Cindy Lopper. She said, really? And he said, no, Cindy.

She goes, don't joke with Americans about winning cars. And that, to me, it was like, that is the essence of the difference. But CNN's, that's their trade, you know, it's not a trade. Yeah. So it's a perfect fit. I did like when Taylor Tomlinson had her panel show. One week, the prize was the approval of her father. I mean, that's what we're all out there.

Some may say that could be worse more than a car, but I don't know. I mean, secretly, that's all. what we're hoping for. I mean, I'm still going to go for the car. I think the, but yeah, and it was also good for us to see after midnight succeed. Yeah. And because, again, you have an audience that just not used to that vocabulary. Right.

But it's very fast to learn. Yeah. But I have to say, because I've been on the Abby Phillips show, that's a shouting match. Yeah. That's discomforting to me, and I think to many viewers. You can't actually hear what the people are even saying. No, but I think that's that, then that comes full circle to how do you deal with this fire hose of news? Absolutely.

And I think that the American approach is to basically do a skirmish. It's a football match. And you just let them, until you call time, they're just going to go at each other. But Abby's so great at making sure each person, you know, She is the conductor. And so she does make sure each person completes their thoughts and gets back to somebody else, which it's really, yeah, great. But you mentioned the firehouse.

I'm sitting here thinking, okay, so you have Jimmy Kimball coming back this week. You have the UN speech telling people their countries are going to hell. You have a screaming attack on Tylenol. You have a amendment. I mean, you mean a set amendment. Yeah, that of those. And also you have now James Comey about to be indicted. You have him ordering his district attorney basic directors.

This is not at a pitch. It's unimaginable. Usually you can find the story of the week, kind of. Not under him and especially not now. No. No. And the show, exactly like the UK version, we cover the news. of the week, you know. So it is that, you know, that popery that you just explained. You know,

you broke it down. That's a good word for it, Joe. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it makes it sounds, it makes it sound like it smells better. Well, it is fall. And I just feel like, uh, when in doubt, throw some potpourri in a pot with a little hot water. And just, these are the moments that, uh, help us. Well, I want to follow. We will. I woke to just a perfect example. Yeah. I woke up to a text from Jody this morning. Oh, you were still asleep? I guess I work on her. I'm just, I'm poetic license.

I was already up vomiting. How he starts every day. Just get it out of the way. How are we dealing? Do you want to handle the James Covemey story today? Like, where do we put it in? And the conversation then with Mason, Steinberg, our head writer, in a three-way text, is, where do we put it? Like, if the show's already too much.

So we're just pitching where it can. go. And then one of the problems we have is we only have two hours to tape the show. So then it is, and you don't want to pack the show with clips and pull quotes and jokes, because at the end of the day, you want to lob out these questions or these topics so that everybody can talk about them, which is one of the advantages of our show. It's just, I can't, you know, stress it enough is just these incredible combinations of people like you know we had jasmine crockett and dave foley and then roy amber and michael talking about really tough stories in the smartest funniest way yeah i want to ask jody because when i spoke to you last year one thing you said to me

was we don't want to be too trump centric and i'm like good good good luck yeah well now that's changed When she said that, she was lying. Now that's changed. The good news is, you know, there's a whole cast of characters that surround him. And they are very rich with personalities and a strong voice. It's a wrestling universe of their cabinet. There are others. So I mentioned the chill.

I mean, irrespective of your show, because I think you, Jim, you point out the news thing, I think gives you a little more freedom maybe than. Cover, yeah, a little more. cover. Do you think other shows are going to be chilled by this? I don't mean overtly even. I mean, you guys know writers. I mean, they have to think about, will this joke get us

our license threat? I mean, I don't know if they're doing that. I really don't. I think Jimmy Kimball showed he's not doing that, right? He's come out. I feel like all shows have shown they're not doing that. Yeah. I feel like everybody's been coming back with the same amount of, not even coming back. They're operating from the same place

with Vim and Vigar. It seems like to me. I'm very curious to see how S&L comes, but I'm very curious to see how they happen. That's my next question. I mean, they, they, you would think, talk about a fire hose, their first opening sketch of this season is going to be incredibly anticipated. You know, what do they do in the light of all of this? And by the way, the week they go on, there's liable to be another gigantic development. I mean, you know, SNL does always walk that line, but I think

it also, Lauren knows when to kind of not cover stuff, you know? Yes, he does. Yeah. I don't know where that comes from, but I think he you know, I worked at Broadway video for nine years under Mr. Michaels, and I think that

it was never, you could never figure out how what his take was going to be. And it's usually correct. I think there's usually like, we don't need to touch it now. We do a lot of that stories, we can do that next week. Like this story's, we're too young in the story's, you know, growth period right now. Let's let get, let it grow up a little bit and we'll attack it next week. But like, Comey has a deadline right now. So it's like, Tuesday is that's it. So I think that, to answer the question, yeah, we've heard some people say you have to be more mindful about where you aim your joke at. But I don't think anyone, and the kind of sad but beautiful part about the whole ABC Kimmel thing is it's all about money.

It just comes down to money. And when you break it down like that, the fear of being. silenced is much less because when you go, oh, it's about the money, there's too much money at stake for all parties that they're not going to go to that place. And by the way, J.D. Vance last night claimed that

Brendan Carr was just joking. You can tell you what I love that. I love that. I'm going to say that for everything. I bring this up to Jim sometimes too. It's like when things like this happened were forced to hear news reporters or journalists talk about the state

of comedy or what a joke is, which is just the worst. It's just like when people try to break down, oh, it was a joke or this is a joke or where the joke is coming from or where it's aimed, it's awful. But going back to the money thing, look, this is Sinclair and Nextar and Tegna.

You know, Sinclair, people don't talk about this. Sinclair wanted Tecna. Nextstar got Tegna in a bid. So now Sinclair and Nextar are kind of friend. enemies in this situation, but they are very much, Sinclair is still suing Nexstar about that bit. So there's all that. Then there's ABC and the Disney Channel and the Disney World and all that means. And we talked about this earlier this week.

My advice to Disney to ABC is go in and say, hey, we have a contract for these affiliates. So you can preempt the program five times as per our contract. In one week, you will have violated our contract. track. So we're going to find you for that. Also, we agree with you. There's no reason why, you know, you should be forced into airing our stuff. So we're going to remove all of our ABC prime time material from you until you've come to your son. Boom, it's over. And what you can already see Sinclair saying and next start saying, we're talking, we're talking. That's right. Exactly. And I've been making that point in the interviews, the power rests with the network here. It does not rest

with the affiliates. They have to have that program. They take Monday night football away from that group of stations. They will be stormed. with pitchforks. So they really don't have any power. I think all the fans of the MASH reruns would be happy, but that's about it. I do want to say, though, since you mentioned Brendan Carr, you want to have him as a guest. The guy is so deadpan funny. He can sit there and say, if you can do this the easy way or the hard way. And man, it feels like a threat, not a joke. Yeah, we should get him on. I mean, since you're a comic, we should have you on, Brendan. Exactly. He's such a funny guy. But that's such a classic. You know,

when the Trump administration knows they've overstepped, when they say, no, no, it was a joke. Exactly. Exactly. So to go all the way to the beginning of the question, I think once that happened, people are like, oh, okay, fine, sure. And I feel, you know, wherever you stand politically, the minute you get cautious is the minute you start losing. Yeah. And so getting back to us, I think. think, again, what's drilled into our heads from the Brits, you're a comedy show, you're a comedy show, you're a comedy show, you're a comedy show. We embrace that because there's this, when you watch British panel shows, it doesn't matter just ours or would I lie to you or any of, there is a comic joy in these shows. You are, you love watching the jokes. You love watching the interaction. You love watching these people who you either know or don't know make each other laugh. And there's a, it's a real human basis thing where you just just go, oh, it's so much fun to watch.

And so we don't ever want to lose that. And I think when our shows really sing, they feel joyful, despite what the news is. Yes. Well, you hear a person get off a good, spontaneous joke. Yes. And it kills, not just in the audience, but in the panel. There's a real pleasure in that. Yeah.

And so we never want to lose that. We never want to lose that. But we also don't want to, you know, put on, you know, kitten mitts. And then I say about you have a two-hour taping, right? Yeah. The audience is there for two hours? Yeah. Yes.

I mean, that is a big answer. No bathroom breaks. Right. That is kind of a big answer. I mean, they're strapped in and all the clockwork orange. We keep their eyes open. What they do, everyone, the energy in the room is fantastic. They want to be there.

And they love being part of the conversation and seeing it. And Jim and I are on the floor and we watch and Mason's in the booth. And we take notes because we're about to edit that evening. And the audience leaves and they're like, I don't know how you're going to cut that down. And, you know, Jim and I always joke because Friday night, we're like, oh, when we leave the edit at, you know, some crazy hour, it's usually like, oh, I don't know. So much more. I don't know what we got. We have so much more to cut.

And so we show up Saturday morning early, but it's just, it's such a puzzle because there are so many great moments that happen in those tapings. And the audience is part of it. They keep the energy up. They are very involved. You can hear, I don't know if it always picks up on the mics, but we'll show a clip. You know, usually someone hanging themselves, basically. And you'll hear like, oh.

Yeah. or that. And I think that we don't stop them. We don't, you know, it's fine. But I think that's part of it. They really, they really want to be there. I think you're either a huge Roy fan. You're either, or Amberfan or a member fan are all three. And I think it gives them the same way it does it for our growing audience at home. And we see this on the, we see this on our YouTube channel comments all the time. I laughed so hard and I know I shouldn't be because the news is so bad. Yeah.

Job done. And you feel like you're part of a community and you're all just like what is happening. But Roy and Amber and Michael also are great at keeping the energy up. They play with the audience during the taping. Like if Michael's king of this, and Roy too, he'll tell a joke and it just kind of, you know, and he'll turn around and say, fuck you, that was funny.

And the audience gets, you know, they're right back in. So it's very playful. Again, that joyful quality is something we never want to lose. And again, the audience is there. Is it that different than a regular taping, I think? Is it like they get there about an hour before? I mean, the amount of time, the length of time people wait for a taping is probably the same, but the amount of, the length of the taping.

Yeah, yeah. So we're coming down to the last minute here. So here's my big question, which I think has been easier to answer. in the past. Jody's a Libra. I'm 5'3. Is Donald Trump good for comedy? You know the answer to this, well.

Well, I think it's more mixed at the moment. Yes, because he gives you an opponent. I mean, look, there's the whole, you know, you shoot up, you shoot down, you know, how, what, you know, all that stuff. But that language, you killed, you bombed. Yes. Comedy is a very violent. It's a sharp elbow business. Or a contact sport, not violent.

It's a contact sport. And you're in it. But if you have an opponent who it's not, he goes like, hey, what are you coming after me? It's not funny anymore. Right. But he gives you, he's an incredible opponent. I mean, I don't think he understands why,

but he's an incredible opponent. He gives you a brick wall to punch at. But he can't take it. No, but that's even better. He can't take a joke. No, it's even better. It's like, because he's a bully and everyone likes to see people take on bullies. So I say yes.

And what do you say? Yeah, of course. I mean, and he's, the character is there. It's a big personality. He's a very big personality. And, you know, he's surrounded by consistency when it comes to his traits. So. 100%.

Yep. Yeah. But, you know, on the Jasmine Crockett episode, Michael Black, who has a big bone to pick with Governor Newsom, so just to be fair, he thinks he's kind of being a bully and taking advantage of the situation. So it wasn't a popular position to take, but he's been consistent with that. And I think, same thing. You can, particularly in politics. I mean, that's it, right? Most political personalities are good for comedy, because who would want to get it?

into politics. Right. Only to say, I'm free when you're out. Somebody with a big ego, that's for sure. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, politicians are, they're asking for it. There are asking for. And this has been a great chat, guys. I love to talk to you guys. The show is,

have I got news for you? You really should watch it if you haven't discovered it yet. CNN, Saturday nights at 9 p.m. I'm just to say that. It's a great show. And especially if you're news junkies,

you can't miss it. Thank you so much. It's great to talk to you guys. Thank you. Thank you.