Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Colbert, CBS, and the FCC Squeeze [LateNighter Roundtable Podcast]

Episode Date: February 27, 2026

Bill Carter, Mark Malkoff, and Jon Schneider dig into the latest flashpoint in the Stephen Colbert saga in this month's edition of LateNighter’s roundtable podcast. Plus: The Daily Show's youth surge, Conan's Oscar Redux, and the latest on SNL UK.

Hello, everyone, and welcome on in to Late Niders Roundtable for February 2026. My name is John Schneider from Late Nider. So excited to be back here with the great Bill Carter, Late Niders editor at large. Bill, how are you? I'm very good. I'm actually in Florida, and I missed the storm, so I'm really happy about that. Congratulations. That's quite the feat.

There's a lot of people who are dealing with that right now, so wishing everybody the best over in the Northeast. and joining us as well as the host of Inside Late Night at Late Nighter. That's Mark Malkoff. Mark, how are you? My arms are sore from shoveling. Bill, I'm envious. Yeah, it's very nice and sunny here in Florida. New York City, not so much.

You know, my wife went back the morning of the storm, just got in, and there's 18 inches at our house. Yeah. Fun times. Unfortunately, I didn't have to be there. Well, we have a lot to talk about from this month in late night. So let's dive right in. And speaking, yeah, I think so.

I mean, speaking of, I mean, yes, late night was on a little bit of a break for a couple weeks, but it still feels like the stories were going on. And speaking of digging yourself out of a hole, let's talk about the FCC and James Talarico, who was going to appear on the Stephen Colbert's Late Night Show. and that turned into quite the fiasco as this was an interview that I believe was originally scheduled to air on television. FCC got involved. There's multiple sides to the story where the FCC claims that they told Colbert and his team that they would need to provide options to have other people have the equal time rule in play. Ultimately, they would tape the interview and this would end up online.

And Bill, it's the never-ending saga over at Colbert's show right now with politics. So how are you feeling now there were a couple weeks out from this whole debacle? Well, you know, it's interesting because it really was the network that messed this up, really, because the FCC basically made their point about this is the regulation we're going to put in place. We intend to do it. They didn't say they were going to do it. We're thinking of doing it. They actually didn't put it in play.

They didn't say you must do this or else. But CBS, as it did with its 60 Minutes capitulation, decided to obey in advance and your lawyers talk to Colbert. This is all Colbert's version, which is note. Colbert came on the air and discussed what the lawyer said to him. That was under some dispute later, but I tended to believe him. And they decided you can't have him on because then we have to have other candidates on, and it will open up the can of worms down the road.

it's only if there's another opponent that in an actual race that would be a factor. Interestingly, he had on the governor, Shapiro, the governor of Pennsylvania a few weeks earlier, and that didn't trigger this because that race had not officially started, even though he's obviously running for reelection. So that didn't officially start. They're really splitting hairs on this rule, which was basically done away with in the 80s, where late night didn't have to pay attention to this. It could book a political figure and not have to worry about this.

And clearly, Brendan Carr is the FCC chairman and clearly the hitman for Trump in all of this activity because he's only going after the critics of Trump, decided that he would put this out there, that the equal time will come back in effect only for TV, only for broadcast TV, because the FCC regulates broadcasting, and that would be radio, and there are literally hundreds of political right-wing talk shows that only book conservative candidates, and they would presumably be affected by the same thing. But he said, no, no, no, it's just the TV people,

which really is only the view on ABC and the late-night shows. And it just is another example of leverage. the administration does not like the comics making fun of them. They've tried to get Camel off the air. They were obviously at least adjacent to the decision to get Colbert off the air, and they're not giving up. They're keeping it up. And it's really an intimidation tactic because the network could say, I believe, very easily,

no, we're not doing it. And if you push it on us, we will go to court and we'll say, why are you picking on just these TV shows? The radio people are in broadcasting. You can't selectively regulate. That seems like an easy legal case to me, but CBS has been, you know, the ownership of CBS has been very involved in cooperating with Trump, especially because they had a deal they wanted to close before the Colbert thing. And now they have another deal they want to close in order to gain Warner Brothers. So it's complicated, but I think it really has to do basically with the showdown between people making fun of Trump and the people who want

to defend Trump and protect it from those people. In terms of Colbert's late show, you could not buy better publicity. I don't know if we'd be talking about the late show right now. I mean, I'm sure as it gets more near, they're going to be doing things that are going to get pressed. But in terms to get energy and attention on a show that's dwindling down their time, I think it only helped the show. It also helped James Tala Rico quite a bit.

Because I would say if you went around the country and asked who James Tala Rico was before this event, you'd be very hard pressed to find even a small handful of people who would say, oh, I know that guy. He's running for some office in Texas, basically. And then he gets 85 million hits because of this publicity. And he's now way ahead in the polls in the Democratic primary. He's ahead in the polls. There's no doubt this helped him enormously.

I mean, that's the other layer here. And I feel like, you know, there's a, there are people between Trump and this whole thing. But I feel like, you know, what you could take away potentially from Trump becoming president in 2016 is that he was able to galvanize people. And this is doing that exact thing. So I almost feel like there is a you should know better aspect to this where once you put somebody in a position to then. put this interview online. And it's funny because on the late show, Colbert even said, I know most of you will end up watching this online and it'll probably get more views anyways. And it just did exactly that. So that's the other layer here is that in a world where people are

tuning into late night programming mostly online, this was made such a big deal mark that I think that this is just a fascinating chapter to this whole thing, which of course we're still waiting for the end of this story with at least Colbert in the next few months. But this to me was one of the most interesting things that's happened since we've been doing this podcast together. Listen, it's made late night relevant again. I mean, it's always relevant to the three of us, but in terms of the media and people. And I'm sure that Colbert's light show they're going to go out strong. I think that his dream guest, you had two. One was Beyonce. I'm sure maybe Barack Obama. We'll see what happens. But yeah, this is just a

get momentum for the light shown for Stephen Colbert. Well, I kind of wondered about this because this move, I mean, he's only got a few months left. What's the point in a way? Except they really don't like the fact that Colbert with impunity goes after Trump. The same with Kimmel. And I think they don't care, by the way, they don't care about Tala Rico. That's so immaterial to them what happens with him.

It's just about we have to somehow exercise. our authority and shut up these guys we don't like. That's kind of what it's about. It's really not about too much more than that, except I guess there's a feeling that if it really went too far, I mean, Colbert was pretty generous to CBS, by the way, in his commentary about this. I've always like working with them. I have an issue with them, et cetera. I don't think he wants to be bounced before the end of his time. I would think that was not, I would think that was partly the motivation here. Maybe we can get this to be such a confrontation that we get Colbert off even quicker. I mean, that wouldn't surprise me. So yeah, that was my, that was one of my two

questions, which I was fascinated to ask you coming into this, which is that, you know, clearly there is the scenario here where Colbert just lights the house on fire before he departs in May. How far can he pushed this thing in your opinion? Well, I mean, I would have said as far as he wants, because they've already given him his end date, right? Can't sell by date. They've already given him that. But I don't think that they have the freedom to just do that now because they're in the middle of this other deal. I mean, I do think that's always percolating back there. It seems like the Paramount Skydance people that wind up buying CBS are so attuned to what they have to do for Trump that they're kind of, you know, enabling whatever his motivation is. I mean, Brendan Carr is such a

complete lap dog. I mean, and you talk about someone getting, what Kimmel says about him is just unbelievable, like personal stuff, really deeply personal stuff. And Colbert to an extent too. So I think this is like a street fight for them in some way. And they don't care. They would love to be able to say, I think Trump would love to be able to say before Colbert left the air, it was too much and I got rid of him. I mean, I think he'd love to be able to say that. If that happened, it would only help Colbert.

It would be overall with whatever he does next in the leverage and very echoing Team Coco where every so many people were rooting Exactly. But Mark, I think that that's not in question here. I think that, of course, that would help Colbert. My question, Mark, though, is, can, is like, what does he have to do, Colbert to potentially be let go between now and May? Because, you know, obviously, you know, that is the first question when you see these

things happen is like, well, is he going to last all the way to that day? And I just wonder if he, you know, they would prefer at this point to just like, let run and do whatever he wants because everything they try backfires on them. I don't know what you would have to do. I mean, he is very good at reading the room, I think, and who his audience is. And, you know, people might not agree with him politically. But I don't think he's, to my knowledge, ever gone as far. And I don't know what that would look like, to be honest, where they would have to take,

where they would take discipline and it would make sense to remove him. You know what, Mark and John, he'd have to openly defy something. If CBS said, no, you, in this case, he didn't do it. They said, don't put him on. And he didn't do it. He did, he worked around it, right? He worked around it. He'd have to open, I think he'd have to openly defy them in some fashion.

And that's not him. I mean, that really is not him at all. I mean, I don't, I don't think he'll do that. He's a really smart guy. And he's a very polite guy, actually, in real life. He has. I worked with him for almost four years. And we have to remember also,

He has a staff, 200 people that are going to be employed until May. Hopefully, maybe they get a little bit money afterwards. I hope they get a lot of money. But he has people that he's responsible for, and he realizes that. So I can't imagine him doing anything that would be risked that. And really, the difference between him and Conan, because when Conan was being ousted, right, there was a real precipitating event there. they told him they wanted to take a different show, essentially, to change his show to do all this other.

And he refused to do that. And they were sort of violating his contract. They offered him something else. And then they settled with him. And there was really bad blood. I don't think Stephen has bad blood against CBS. I really don't. I think he has bad blood against Carr and Trump.

But I don't think he does against CBS. Right. And he even said during this whole fiasco that there are people. from CBS and the network that are there backstage approving a lot of the things that end up going out on air. So, you know, there is so much he could do to defy an order anyways. So, you know, it's just exploring given all of the craziness that's happening. I do have another question about Colbert, but before we come back to him, since we now have, you know, an example of the FCC trying to put pressure on a late night show to either air or not air specific interviews,

Bill, how do you think this is going to come into play with someone like Kimmel, who is going to be on the air past this season, and clearly will, you know, take some of the political landscape that is, you know, occurring in late night right now. He's going to, you know, Colbert's not going to be there. So he may even get more political if possible. It's something I'm thinking about a lot. Well, I think it's interesting. I think Jimmy does not book a lot of the political guests that Colbert was very heavy with this, very, very heavy with this. You know, Jimmy still does a lot of Hollywood show business people. And he will book a guest now and then.

I think it was interesting that he hosted a Democratic event, which I think was kind of a bit of a red flag waved again in front of Trump's nose and front of cars nose. But he didn't do that in the air. I don't think he's going to be that aggressive unless he's pushed. I mean, I don't know the real nature of his relationship with ABC at this point. I think they came to an agreement after they took him off the air at that time. And he felt good about that. But I'm not sure he's fully confident that they won't cave under certain pressure. I mean, and I think about Jimmy is he's not going to back up.

He's just not going to. That's not who he is at all. So if it comes to that, he'll pull out his flamethrower and blow the place down. I mean, I think that's who he is. But I think he's got a little more leverage, a little more leeway with his network. And I think he feels confident enough. He may not book a guest in this political way that Colbert did during the election season because of this rule, but also because it doesn't feel like he has to. It's not what he's always doing.

But he'll put on any, most everybody he puts on now as a show business person who talks badly about Trump anyway. just not a candidate. I mean, I think it's interesting, don't you think, and Mark would know this from history too, that they haven't really, in the past, booked a lot of candidates in the middle of races. You know what I mean? In the presidential races, they have,

occasionally had candidates on. It really hasn't been like a big, heavy thing. I mean, they put a politician, when he's been president, Obama came on, he's the first president who was actively president and came on. Yeah, you know, I just don't think that's going to be that big a thing. Again, I think it's the intimidation factor that is more important here. Interesting.

Yeah, it definitely is. And, you know, Letterman called Kimmel the leader of the resistance. So I do feel with Colbert out of the picture, he may want to take that mantle, you know, even further next year. So that's something we'll keep an eye on. Just jumping back to Colbert, Bill, you wrote a very interesting piece over at late-nighter.com at the start of that. about the character of Stephen Colbert from the Colbert report and how, you know, who really owns this character and what's the future of a character like this? So I would love to discuss that a little bit because it's a little bit of a tricky question about, you know, it has resurfaced

a couple times in the last year as he's been saying goodbye. What is the future of this character and where might it go? Well, I mean, I so love that show. I mean, when he was a character, I mean, That was so brilliant a show. I still think it was produced more huge laughs out of me than any late-night show. Because when he was on, it was crazy funny. So I like the character very much. And I think, you know, he's like triumph in some way. Like he exists outside the world of the talk show.

He is a character. And so he could show up in various forms. I could see him, I could see Stephen doing some sort of show on a streaming network where he resurrected the character. If he wanted to, he may not want to do it. But I think it's intellectual property has come up in these disputes in the past. Most obviously in the Letterman days when NBC really wanted to keep, well, they wanted to hurt Letterman because he was coming against their show against the Tonightress.

They wanted to hurt Letterman. And they put out this, you know, threat that you better not use anything that we created for the show. And they took it seriously. Letterman made fun of it on the air. But behind the scenes, he was petrified about it. When Don Allmiter sent that letter to Letterman, he did a smiley face with his signature. Yes. Yes. And so they kept the top 10 list because, and they were right about this, that's generic. There are top 10 lists of everything. You can't say he created that or NBC owns the top 10 list. They had to call out the CBS top 10.

They said the CBS mail bag. They definitely, it's not viewer mail anymore. It's the CBS mailbag. Exactly. They still were doing what they were doing. They were still, except they backed off something. They did back off a few things initially. Then as time went on, you know, peace prevailed and they could do things.

But I think it's interesting, this character was created for Comedy Central. Comedy Central was not owned by Paramount at that point. Right. So they would have to decide who owns this, who actually has ownership of this. And I think it's, to me, it's crystal clear it should be the creator, in my opinion, the creator should own his creation. But they were worried about that. There was a serious potential for, you know, you made that for us.

We have that possession. Interestingly, you know, Conan's shows, they now, Conan's people, license those to, I forget where they play, the old shows. And they did make an arrangement with NBC because there's a whole lot of Conan stuff. You know, all the clutch cargo and year 2000 and all those bits he did, they're created on a network that could say, no, that's our intellectual property if they wanted to be bastards about it. I mean, Smigel with the puppet with Triumph, I mean, goes from NBC to different. places and yeah I don't know how we got away with it but I can't imagine I do know how I got away with it

oh okay yeah because you're Bill Carter you wrote the late shift you know everything there was an arrangement made oh okay yeah I mean again because unless you want to really be some sort of nasty person and say yeah that's your that's your that's your creation but we're going to claim in show business really is a terrible thing to have a reputation for saying I'm sorry but you did that and I and you're famous for that but you know you're never going to do that imagine all the people in hollywood who put them forward as characters in some fashion you know and then you could say no i mean you can't do that if you if you're not on our network i'd find that appalling it by the way and if you're colbert you could probably take it on the road you can do a broadway show a one-man show

of the character that they couldn't interfere with that yeah well i think that there's sort of two major options that I see here. One is that there, you know, he wants to, you know, get back into this character as much as possible and create his own program with this character, do some sort of deal with it. Because I think there is definitely some clamoring for people who watch that show and love just, you know, having someone there who can live in the world of the other side and make fun of it from being inside of it. I think that there's, there's a clamoring for that. But I probably think that the most realistic option is, you know, does John Stewart want, you know,

Stephen Colbert showing up on the Daily Show and doing that every now and then? Because I feel like the relationship is still, you know, there. I feel that, you know, you know, we've been talking a little bit about the differences between Mondays of the Daily Show and the rest of the week where he sometimes has the other correspondence on, but really it's mostly the John Stewart show.

And I think that there could be a place there for Stephen Colbert and his character. Yeah, what do you guys think of that? I mean, I can't imagine it would. The ratings, if that would be a regular thing, would be even higher than they've been going up anyway, but to have him there. I would love that. I mean, I think that would be great. John is still credited as an executive producer, right, on Stephen's Late Show.

So there you go. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's, you know, I think that would be ideal for all sides, but we'll see what develops with that. That's definitely something to watch in a future as we see what, you know, what materialize. more. Will the actual Stephen Colbert appear more on Late Night or the Stephen Colbert character from the Colbert Report? We'll watch that in the future. So yeah, let's talk about the Daily Show a little bit because we had another great feature that you wrote Bill on Late Nighter.com this month about what the Daily Show is doing with younger viewers and just looking at some of the

metrics, it is fascinating. And we're going to focus on linear television for viewers that are 18 to 49. Obviously, younger viewers do watch these shows in many kinds of ways. But just talking about with them turning on the television and watching the show, a 20% increase in the last year for 18 to 49 viewers for The Daily Show. They're the only late night show that has actually had an increase. It's incredible. Jimmy Kimmel's lost 5%. Gutfeld down 12%, Seth, down 90%.

The Tonight Show down 21%, which is really interesting. Obviously, they have a huge viewership on, like on TikTok and all social channels. Colbert down 26% Watch what happens live down 36%. So I mean this is a massive moment for the daily show. It is so impressive, Bill. Well, it's amazing to me

because if you went across anything in linear television and you said it was up 20% with younger people, it would be a massive story. It really would be a massive story. They don't watch linear television anymore. Something is bringing them back

to that show and that format. That is remarkable. And of course it's because it is in the news. It is something that is, you know, making a lot of noise. And John came back, and John came back tremendously. I mean, he's absolutely at the top of his game. He's been, to my mind, brilliant in his, both in his messaging,

his scathing attitude. But it is funny. This is not a question of, oh, I got to listen to this guy, sermonized to me. No, it's really funny. He's got it. He's got that mix down. And so it's very interesting that the show is up 20%. I think John's got to be driving that tremendously himself.

I mean, I just think he has to be driving it tremendously himself. And it really makes me think, you know, he never should have gone away because this is what this guy does brilliantly, brilliantly. And, you know, he went away just before Trump started his first term, right? And he really was in the wilderness. I mean, he didn't really do anything that grabbed people after that. And he's so talented. And he comes back and, boy, he's just back in the perfect place. So I'm, as a viewer, I'm thrilled by it.

I think it's just fantastic. And it doesn't surprise me too much that some of the young people are watching it literally because you're feeling the impetus of it. Like, I got to see what he says here. Like, I got to see this. Because Trump every week has some crazy stuff. happen. And that's why people want to see what the cold open is, right, on Saturday Night Live. And I think it's, I got to see what John Stewart says. I got to see this because he's just doing

so much that is not, not on the nose. You know, he does something that's a little, comes out at a different angle a lot of the time. And it just feels fresh to me and, and must see to me. It's like a must-see show. Mark, what do you think? I think that Comedy Central, that is, Comedy Central, right? The Daily Show. Yeah, John, I mean, I never occurred to me. I've never seen a host, a late-night house leaving, then go back to where his home was and succeed like this. It was like he was never gone. And I think you're right. I think he's done some of his best work. I could see them winning an Emmy and I hope he stays. But yeah, I think that that is, I'm sure that's the case in terms of the ratings. You know, a lot of times at 1130 people just get in the habit of, you know,

John's back and they just, you know, go there at 1130. And everyone else is doing a fantastic job as well. Desi's hosting this week, right? Yeah, she's phenomenal. She was fabulous last night, by the way. Yeah, phenomenal. Yeah, she is great. And it was great to see her with John on the Monday show.

But, you know, I think, Bill, you said something interesting, which is like maybe he never should have left. I kind of feel that, you know, him taking that break really made people appreciate him even more. And Trevor Nolan was good. I think Trevor Nolan was good. I do think Trevor Nolan was good. was good. I'm just saying this is what he does brilliantly, you know. He does. And, and, you know, if you're a ballet dancer, you got to come back and do ballet, it doesn't make sense to go out and be a tap dancer, you know. I think that there's, um, there is an aspect to this

that I really wonder technically if it's helping, which is just that their show starts at 11 o'clock. Yes. And they're the first ones. It's huge. And it's just like they're the first, he's on Monday, and they're the first ones on the air. So we're just. when we're specifically analyzing TV ratings, that extra half an hour makes such a difference for people who, you know, haven't gone to sleep yet and can watch the show. And like, you know,

that's something I've thought about a lot with Saturday Night Live is like, you know, does the show have to air at 1130? Like, is that the future of the show? You know, that's something that, you know, was been in place since the beginning

and there are certain traditions that maybe should never be broken with that show. But that is one that I'm not, you know, wholly about. Well, the reason that the daily show, particularly is it works, is that if you watch, if you do watch linear television, the news is on at 11 o'clock. That's the news.

The news starts on it. And he's doing a news broadcast. He's doing a satiric news show. That's what he's doing. That's why it's always worked very well at 11 o'clock. And why in its heyday you would hear young people say, I don't really watch the news, except John Stewart. I get my news from him.

And I mean, like, that's really what it was. It was like he's doing a version of news, which is exactly what happens at 11 o'clock. across the board in television. Right. And that's, you know, there are strategies that I think could be implemented for the other networks. Like I start to wonder if, you know, for example, like a closer look with Seth. That gets released on YouTube typically in the late afternoon, early evening before that airs

later on, you know, after midnight. Is that something that could be a segment in the news? Like, is that something that you would want to get earlier in the day where at like the 6 o'clock news that's airing nationally or 630 news, whatever it is? that they actually cut to a 10-minute closer look with Seth just to have them be there. I mean, I think that there's ways that networks may start playing with their late-night personalities who are the face of their networks. Mark, is that crazy? I mean, they have to change with the times.

I mean, we all know network television ratings that are going down and to be innovative. You have to try new things. I mean, yeah, that's a great idea. I never really thought of that, but I could see it happening. Yeah, definitely something to consider. I will tell you one thing. If that did happen, Brendan Carr's head would explode. I'm telling you.

If they had a closer look in the middle of the NBC Nightly News, honestly God, his brain matter would be everywhere. Because that guy would be like so in their face, okay? It's on the evening news and he's tearing up Trump like this. Yeah, I would see more of the local news if people wanted it. But yeah, the national NBC nightly news, I couldn't see it. But we should see. ideas. Yes, no, I like it.

It's a good at the wrong in brainstorming. But yeah, you know, speaking of someone who made somebody's head explode, Bill Maher and Trump, you know, that is a relationship that is, you know, taking some twist and turns over the last couple years where they were having dinner together. And then, you know, recently with Bill Maher's show returning, he was talking about just some of the craziness that's come out of Trump's mouth, specifically, you know, talking about how, you know, Canada is going to make a deal with China and that China should end ice hockey. And then Bill really went at Trump and he, you know, the back and forth there

was crazy. And I wouldn't call myself as a Bill Mar expert. But this certainly got my attention mark to see, you know, their relationship and how that's developed. Because he sort of, you know, he's, he's had a different perspective on Trump over the years. And I think that relationship is sort of falling apart at this point, too. It seems like it's theater to one part. But the other is just like this is a real thing and it's only good for Bill Maher show to get the controversy. And for whatever reason, I don't know why our president is, the United States is watching Bill Maher, but we all know his reactionary like that with the other host. But I'm sure Bill is like a little kid on Christmas morning when this happens. Whereas you mentioned Seth Myers does not necessarily like when he's

mentioned by the president. But someone like Bill Maher, oh my goodness. Well, it was interesting, because when I watched him doing, I happened to see him reacting to the screed that Trump aimed at him, he was taken a little back by it. Like, he was a little like way, way, well, you know, hey, the president went really after me. Like, he hadn't had quite that experience

of having go after him like that. But the thing I think is interesting is that Marr, he likes to tweak the Democrats a lot. He likes that. He likes to be contrarian like that. and so he's going to have dinner with Trump was a perfect thing for him because he can come out and say I don't know what's going on

that guy that people think is a madman I didn't see that guy that guy he was charming he was this and Trump can be like that he really can that's one of the things people don't recognize about he can be that way look what how we reacted to mom dani which really is it he thinks montami's a really nice guy he likes him as a person he has sort of that he sort of wants to be

like Trump, you know, in some way. So Mar, coming to dinner with him, he liked that. He's like, here's a guy who's a late night guy who can sort of talk to, you know, I don't have to pick on it. And then, but Marr has to be a comedian and he has to say what's going on crazy. And the thing with Trump talking about China, doing away with ice hockey in Canada, was so onkers and crazy. You have to make fun of it. I think he, and more really, if you've been watching him, he hits Trump all the time. He does. He's making, he's making jokes. They're good jokes. He makes a lot of good jokes about Trump. So it was only a matter of time, is my point, before Marr got in the bullseye. And I think one of the reasons he didn't get in

immediately, it was not just that he was a dinner guest, but also that he's on HBO, which is not a network. Trump doesn't watch anything really, but the podcast networks. He's the prototypical CBS viewer. You know, he's 79 years old. He lives in Florida. Yeah, that's very true. Well, I just thought that was a, like, it was a weird story that continues to develop where, I guess as, you know, Colbert is removed from the mix, we'll see what Trump continues to watch into next year. I'm sure he's going to be watching the Oscars, which are taking place between now and the next time that we'll get together, where Conan O'Brien will be the host for the second year in a row, rave reviews for Conan last year. And, you know, we've talked, I believe, on the show about, you know, the Renaissance

of Conan and just how people are clamoring to see him more and more. And I feel like the hype is building Mark already just a few weeks away from seeing Conan again host some sort of program. It was a grand slam. I think it was the fastest that the Oscars ever announced a host coming back. Conan is such a hard worker when it comes to the writing and the quality. I mean, this is a guy who's been doing this since he was a teenager professionally from the time he was 22.

He has some of the best writers. I just had one or two of them on Inside Light Night that are coming out. And they're very loyal to him. And people's expectations, when he has a cold open especially, that Tonight Show cold open is still one of the best, when he was running across the country, the best things I've ever seen. When he hosted the Emmys and he was going with all the different TV shows,

I have so much faith that he's going to do it again. It wouldn't even occur to me that this guy is not going to rise to the occasion. It's going to be interesting. is the 98th Oscars and then I believe they're going to be moving from ABC to YouTube in a few years. So I think we got, yeah, so we got 2026, 2027, 28 and that'll take us through the 100th. So I wonder, Bill, if this is an ABC plan of like, hey, can we get Conan for the next few years before then we make this major move? But are you excited to see him in just a few weeks? I know a little bit of the backstory of how he got the first offer.

to do this and that there was some reluctance among his, you know, his management because it's a terrible risk. If you bomb at this, it's not good for you. It's really good for you. Bill, we need to point out, Bill, that a lot of people said no, probably by the time before they went to Conan, at least a few probably. You bet. Yeah. I mean, you know, was it Bargazzi, you bombed at the Emmys? It just was a tough room. I mean, we had Joe Coy. That was really, really tough when you go out there and they do not really know who you are. I mean, someone like even like Letterman when he went out there, I thought he did much better than he gave himself credit. But it's an uphill battle with that audience.

But I think the thing is Conan hit it so out of the part. It's interesting to me that he came right back to do it because, you know, that was a high. It's hard to imagine him doing better than that. It was so, so good at that, so good at that. But he did, he agreed right away to do it. And I think he got a charge out of it. I really do. And I think he misses this.

Like this not, he doesn't do this. This is again, a guy who needs to be that guy again in some form. You know, that's that performing muscle. He really wants to do that. I think this is my feeling about it. And I think he's worked, as you said, he'll work it so much. I know he's been doing comedy. clubs in L.A.

Yes, did it stand up like a local room the other night? He's trying out his material. Trying out material. So, I mean, I think he's going to, you know, he's really thrown. I'm looking tremendously forward to it because, I mean, I just feel like, because I, and I was there when he started, literally the first time he appeared in the press. I was in the room and I talked to him the first time. So I've talked to him this whole career.

And he's had these ups and down. He's had these periods where, you know, it was a struggle for me. And I think it's so great that he's got this. in his life because he really brought something completely fresh and new to this genre. And to me, it's wonderful that he's, you know, getting this at sort of the tail end of his career, certainly the back end of his career, that he's being celebrated this way. Yeah, because there's never in the history of Light Night that I know of with one of these people behind the desk that was able to leave their show and become more popular.

I mean, obviously podcasts weren't there, but he's never been bigger, way bigger than when he was doing the 1230 show on NBC. Never. And he also did the Mark Twain thing, which was fabulous. That was a tremendous show, too. I think there's also just a novelty to it. Like, Kimmel did it for four years, I think two different separate periods. He'd be great. He was great, but, you know, he's an ABC guy. And, like, you know, you see him every day. And then to see him host the Oscars, it just felt like, okay, this makes sense.

It's like Ryan Seekrass everywhere. So it's, like, not like a novelty to see him host something. But I think when you get Conan O'Brien back on TV and you never know what's going to happen, there's this excitement that builds. And I think he's one of the most requested potential SNL hosts for many years now where people were like, oh, we just love if Conan. Like, he appeared in John Malini's Five Timers Club sketch and everyone was like, oh, we just love if Conan.

I'm going to host the show one day. So curious if you ever will. But I think that this is such a great path for him. He did do it one. Yeah. He was not at the 50th for some reason. I forget why he wasn't there, but he was not at the 50th. That's my recollection.

I didn't, no, I don't think he was up. No. You're totally right. He did it in the late night days and had this great monologue where he went down to walk in on Max Weinberg with his wife on his desk. Yeah. But yes, I mean, it would be great to have that again one day. But for now, we'll just look forward to the Oscars, which, you know,

could be the start of an incredible run for him. I hope it is. I really do. I mean, how many, Mark would know on the top of his head, how many times did Johnny do it? It was four, maybe five tops. And he, to this day, people still look at Johnny as the gold standard for even hosting the Oscars is the best. A lot of people say that, a lot of critics. Yeah, he did it four years in a row and then.

Oh, Billy Crystal was phenomenal as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we got, Johnny did it four years in a row between 78 and 81. Walter Mathau did it in 82, and then Johnny came back. I want to point out that a late-night host Chevy Chase, 26 episodes on Fox. He did very well hosting the Oscars. I think people forget.

It's on YouTube. He did extremely well. People do forget. Mark, you just reminded me, and I would have said no, that he was. I didn't remember he was the host of the Oscars. Yeah. Letterman did it in 94, and then we had John Stewart did it in 2005 and 2007. So, yeah, we'll see.

The opponent does. All right, the other thing we're very excited about between now and the next time we get together is the premiere of S&L UK, which is scheduled to start on March 21st. So we have a release date. We have a cast now of 11 cast members, but we also have news of streaming in Canada, so it'll appear on Crave over here or up here. But no news yet for any peacock or any U.S. streaming rights. But Bill, what are you most excited about as for just a few weeks? away from the start of the show. I want to see them do something that is theirs.

I don't want them to do the SNL that we always see. I really do want to see them because British comedy can be fabulous. I mean, it can be. So I really hope they will aim that high. And so don't bring a host from America over. You know, don't bring a big star over. Have a British star be the host of the show and have British jokes that we may not get. We may not get them.

You know, but that they should, to me, that's what they should do. They should own it. It's their show. I would really hope that they do that. I have a little empathy for them because back in the day in 75, they were not under a microscope. There is a learning curve doing this show when you're a cast member reading the cards and putting a show like this together. And they are going to be judged on the first show like they've been doing it for a long time.

And just to know going in as a viewer, like all the late night host, that there is a learning curve and to give them a little bit of grace. I hope that they're given and I'm looking forward to it. I think they'll do great. Who would you have host the first show? I mean, if you're going to go with somebody that's British, I mean, trying to think like Harry Styles, Ricky Jervais, I don't know, John, who would you pick? I'm trying to think.

I wouldn't actually go with someone who is British, but that's just me. I would have taken someone from the U.S. with experience on SNL for them to just go back to what the show was originally intended to be, which was these are not ready for primetime players who were there to learn from people. And then they'll become stars of their own. And I think, you know, whether it's a Kenan or a Tina, like that's something that I would have done for the first show. But there's a whole lot of British performers who've been host of Southinga Live. Really? Daniel Craig was really good. Yeah, Daniel Craig was terrific.

I remember him being really good. Yeah, it's just I think to me, I mean, because of the pressure, et cetera, and Mark is right, the scrutiny that they're under is like nothing that's what they've experienced in the beginning for Saturday Night Live. But I think that's why I want them to do something that's just eye-poppingly fresh. That's just something I hope people can do. I mean, it's easy for me to say, but I think they should have Jesse Buckley be the host. particularly because she might win the Oscar the week before. It's a really strong pick.

No connection to the franchise at large, but still something that could be interesting. They're talented and a great singer, by the way. Yeah, and look, I think that six episodes is not a lot to develop the chemistry with the cast and have them gel. And I do think that it needs to be some grace for people who are learning the process before fully judging them. but they're not performing in a living room or a local theater.

They're performing on national television, and internationally we're going to get to watch them. And there is, you know, a competitive aspect to this show. I am a huge believer in that this show makes or breaks you. And what we got in that first season was that Chevy Chase rose and Bede and was the star. And he found a place there and then eventually Belushi and Ackroyd and Gilda. Like they all found their lanes. That's what I'm excited to see.

I want to see which of these 11 have it and, you know, do they run away with it? Or are there others that just really start to take over the show? There are ways that we will see this mark in that first season. I think so. We want to know them. Six episodes is tough. If I was producing this and I'm not, I would rely even more on pre-tapes that they have on. How many do they usually have on SNL these days with the pre-tage with digital?

I would have like several up more than that prepared. You try it in front of an audience. You know stuff that's going to absolutely kill. It's very reminiscent of that, what, was it, 84 to 85 with Philly Crystal and Harry Short? Yes, that was an amazing year. And they relied a little bit more on the pre-tapes. I think they might want to go that way and just make sure that this stuff, it works. And it's a lot safer.

I'm going to say something I'm not sure, but I should have know this. But are they doing 90 minutes or an hour? I don't think we know yet, which is, you know, one of the details that's still, you know, waiting to come out. Because if they only have an hour and it's only six episodes, it's going to be hard for, you know, people. I can't imagine. There's no reason that they have to do dress at 8 p.m. and there's no reason they have to stay up at until Tuesday. I mean, they can do dress at 2 p.m. and then have all this time for fixes instead of 90 minutes to make all the, fixes. So I don't know how they're going to do it, but it'll be exciting to see what they're doing.

Yeah, we're going to have a lot of answers. I do think that S&LUK will be a test case for the future of S&LUS in that they may try things that change with the way that they operate on a week-to-week basis that the future of the S&LUS franchise may implement. So I think all these things are worth watching. Especially because at least at some point, we are going to have somebody besides Lauren running the show. Correct. That might transfer in a way when that transition happens. Tina's on speed dial.

Well, and Seth keeps traveling to the UK, so we'll see what happens there. But I do think that out of all the news we've gotten so far, it's very fun to get to know a new cast. But what I find the most interesting as a diehard SNL fan is that they announced the cast about six weeks before the show started. And it's clear to me from watching what they've been doing on social media, not only did a lot of the cast travel to New York to go see an S&U.S. U.S. episode and be backstage. But it seems like they're already getting together. I don't know if they're doing table reads and test shows. I don't know if it's like some sort of, you know, like networking party situation that's going on. And I'm sure all of that will come out eventually.

But it's clear to me that there's a lot of chemistry. They're looking to build with this cast. And Mark, it reminds me a little bit about what S&L used to do where they would have these retreats. they would invite, you know, the cast and the crew there to, you know, the writers would be there. Yeah. Yes. And I feel like S&LUS misses that maybe a little bit.

Yeah, they stopped that, I think, in 94 or 95 maybe was the last time. I think that they did that. But to have that time is so valuable. And I'm really glad that they're taking that to have chemistry. I mean, without really knowing somebody, I mean, it just takes a while, obviously. But I'm glad they're taking time. Yeah, I think there's like a summer camp or school trip vibe to this where you end up bonding because, you know, you go through the experience together and we'll see how that translates. Yeah, it's us against the world kind of thing. You want you want to band together, really.

Yeah, and it'll be fun to see what happens there. So a lot to come in March. We'll be talking about that. We have three new SNLUS episodes coming out with Connor Story hosting the show. Oh, my goodness. That's going to be massive. We got Ryan Gosling. And then. Harry Stiles, so it's going to be a busy month over at SNLUS. All the late night shows are past Olympic break, so there will be a lot of content to talk about from there, and of course, SNLUK. So it'll be a fun month for late night TV. Gentlemen who's coming up from, what is it, heated rivalry, the ratings on this thing are going to, they're going to have to be the biggest rating that they've had in, I'm guessing, like a year or two. Would you say, would you be surprised if that happens?

No, yes, I'd be surprised at him. Because I think the show is, that show is, it's an interesting test case. I mean, Stranger Things is bigger than heated rivalry, okay? I guess, yeah, that's a good point. And the kid did not do any business, really. That didn't really juice the show. But he's not a star like this guy. This guy has real star quality.

I saw the video with him of the, of them showing up to Jimmy Fallon's Tonight Show and Rockefeller Center. It was like the Beatles. Yes. I mean, I couldn't believe. how famous these young people are so quickly. Yeah. We'll say.

They have a massive female audience, massive. Yeah. Yes. And just to put a finer point on it, Finn Wolfhard's episode Saturday Live, ninth out of 12 episodes of the season, linear TV rating. I'm surprised.

You know, 24 hours plus later. What was the first one? What was the first or second ratings for this? Ariene Grande and Cher is number one. Makes sense. So that's the Christmas episode. That's obviously typically pretty high. She's bigger.

I take it back. Alexander Scarsguard and Cardi B, this last one did really well. So, yeah, it's, you know, you never know with the linear TV. But again, I don't think that the show values just that metric anymore at this point. So I just think the buzz around the show, the fact that it, you know, will continue the institution for people. I mean, there's a lot of people. I, every generation's gone through this. There's a lot of people where you just hear someone you know is hosting Saturday and alive, you check out the show.

And then you're it. You never go back. And that's what I'm sure the show is open for. for this weekend. Yeah. I mean, I think it's interesting. I hope they don't overdo it. Right. I mean, Bill, Bill, Seth Meyers said that out of the history of his show, openly Taylor Swift got more ticket requests. He never had gotten more ticket request for and probably like he did Ravelry guy. No, they're a phenomenon. That's a phenomenon. It's a true phenomenon. But I mean, for their sake, I hope it really is a great show because I think

they will have some people watching that maybe aren't watching. I hope they do a great show. Yeah, can't wait to watch it. Well, this was a blast to get to talk to the two of you today about all of these things. So, Bill, tell us what's coming up for you. Do you have any interesting articles that you are writing for Late Nighter? I'm going to have a nice conversation with Conan. Whoa, nice.

Tell them we said hi. Yeah. Yeah, I wish, break a leg, Conan. Yes, and, you know, I don't want to talk about just to ask. and stuff because I have such a history with him. I just want to talk about his feelings. As we said, you know, this is a tremendous renaissance that he's gone through, and I'm happy for him.

So I'm sort of looking forward to that. And I'm going to talk to Longman, the producer of SNLUK. If he invites me to London, maybe I'll go over. Yeah, that would be great. We can't write to read all of that, Bill and Mark. inside late night has just premiered back on the feed for another season. So tell the listeners what they can expect. Yeah, we just had Ms. Amber Ruffin, who's phenomenal on.

She's great. We are going to be doing some Conan episodes with former longtime Conan writer Tommy Blatcha. And somebody who has been at the show since almost day one, he was there for 27 years with Conan, Brian Kylie, who did the monologue, who's writing for the Oscars with Conan. And yeah, we have Saturday Night Live Writers coming up and a bunch of other surprises. So we shall see, but stay tuned. Yeah, check out the Late Nighter Podcast Network feed to never miss anything that we have going on over there. You can subscribe on all podcast platforms. And I really want to thank Mark and Bill for this great conversation today.

So on behalf of everyone here at Late Nighter, my name is John Schneider. And we will see you next time. Have a good one.