Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - David Cross

Episode Date: July 23, 2024

David Cross joins Mark to discuss going on Letterman, auditioning for SNL, meeting with Lorne Michaels, Mr. Show, & The Ben Stiller Show.   Tour Dates: https://officialdavidcross.com/pages/appearances Listen: Senses Working Overtime with David Cross   Watch- YouTube Channel   Follow on Instagram   Follow X (formerly Twitter)   Follow Facebook

Hi, I am Mark Malkoff, and welcome to Inside Late Night, presented by late-nighter.com. Today's guest is comedian, actor, David Cross. We discussed David going on Letterman, auditioning for Saturday Night Live, Mr. Show, and so much more. Now it's time to go inside late night. David Cross, thanks for being here. Yeah, finally. I know. It took 22.

minutes. I'm so sorry. Technical stuff. That does not happen with your podcast. You actually do them in person and it's beautifully shot. Yeah, your podcast, by the way, I was in a bad mood this morning for numerous reasons and I watched you and Mark Marin together. There's nothing like old friends, comedy friends just talking about the war stories and everything. You guys were so good. Oh, yeah. That's a lot of what the podcast is now. You don't have to do any real prep, do you? Because these are your friends and it's just kind of, the stuff just kind of flows. Yeah, and eventually there'll be people, I'll just run out of, you know, old friends. And then they'll probably be a little, but I'm not that interested in that.

I don't want to have that podcast, you know. You should not just have people you want to talk to. Who are, like, some of your dream guests that you would want? Like, if you could tomorrow pick a few people, like, who would you want on? I'd love to talk to AOC. She's my representative, by the way. I live in Queens in the story. She's, oh, I could ask her.

She owes you one. She does. I would like to talk to Werner Herzog. Like, these are, I'm talking about people I don't know, you know. But it's somebody like, I don't know,

somebody that would be, we would have a wildly different ideas and viewpoints, but isn't simply a contrarian, you know, and I don't know who that would be. There are a bunch of people, but like somebody that,

no, no, that'd be, that'd be an interesting podcast as well. Conan would be good because, I mean, you did like 17 or 18 of those shows and stuff.

that your very first talk show, by the way, a late-night show? It was either that or John Stewart, the Paramount Syndicated one that was filmed on like 24th Street. I don't think I was on John's tour. I wrote on that show. Maybe it was a writing, correct. The internet is, there's so much untrue stuff. So you never did stand up on the job. So your debut on National for Network was Conan. It must have been in 94. I believe so. That makes sense. Yeah, it was, I had done a bunch of those, like, you know, evening at the improv and on the road with John Biner type things. But that was the first late night talk show that I, I believe, I'm pretty, I'm almost positive. So I want to talk about your podcast. You're going to be doing a tour in the fall. And

I counted, I counted something like, it was like 20, is it 26 cities that you're going to be going? I think there are about 40 places. And I will, uh, record or take the special in Montana and then we'll probably stop down for the holidays, you know, and then I'll go back out and I'll do the rest of Canada and Europe in the new year. So this is hard for me to bring up just because it's so vulnerable because I was such a runt kid. But the reason I'm bringing this up is because there's questions I have about it, which is the first time we met that I ever saw you, the date was Thursday. day, September 26th, 1996. This was, and I can tell you why in a little bit, why I know this.

You were, I guess, 32 when I was 20. And I'm people watching at, there was a place got off of 3rd Avenue called Around the Clock in the Village. And I was with my friend Allie. And this was, I think, 20. Oh, I know where that was. That was the like bagel place by the, by the bookstore and what's now the Japanese market by Angel Share. I think so. Yeah. It's. something, it's something like that. So what happened is, is that I saw, I saw you. And this was 24 days after you did that, what was it, the bumber shoot in Seattle? Is that what it's called? That was like the first time that you realized. I have fans. Like people were, like, you had only done one season in Mr. Show and you were like this light bulb. Like people, like you had no idea.

Yeah. I remember calling Bob going, people know about our show, like more than one. I knew nobody at NYU and I was like the biggest fan so I run out and this is 24 days after you find out that people are liking the show and I'm like into comedy. I'm doing sketch and I'm so wide-eyed. I come out and you were so nice and I'm like freaking out because I told you just had written something for George that magazine JFK Jr. with Bob. So basically I told I ditch my friend and I said wherever you're going can I walk with you and can I ask you some questions while? And he's like yeah, just come on. out with me. Do you have any recollection of this and I can fill in everything? No, none. You said we're actually, walk with me, we're going to go meet Janine Garavalo. There was a bar at Avenue B and 4th Street.

B and 4th would be we walk in and Janine's playing a video game. She's at this like sitting down playing one of those car video games. Wait, are you thinking of Ace Bar? I think I am. Where is that? That is B

and fifth, I think. Yes. There are a bunch of lunch boxes on the wall. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, we're walking there and you're saying also a bunch of other people

from there are going to be there from the state and Saturday Night Live. And as we're going there, I'm asking you all these questions. And this is like decades later. And I want to see if my memory is right. You told me you just filmed a, did a movie called Waiting for Guffman.

It hadn't been out yet. And you told me at the time that you were such a fan of Chris guest that you purposely got lost, you were right in a car with him and gave him the wrong directions so you could spend more time with him. Is that true? That's not exactly true. It's halfway. So what happened was I ended up missing just by, you know, miscommunication. It wasn't manufactured, but I missed the last passenger van that was going back to the city. We shot about 45 minutes outside of Austin. We were all staying in Austin. And then I was

standing around going, well, what do I do? And he was there. He's like, oh, I'll give you a ride. He had a pickup truck. They rented a truck. And he's like, I'll give you a ride. And I was like, great. And inside, I'm freaking out. And I get in the truck. And it's just one of the greatest hours I've ever spent. And he's, you know, we're talking. He's ripping. He was working on, not that I knew he was working on it, but what ended up being his character for, Best in Show. And he also, they had delivered to the set music that Harry Shearer had recorded for the musical, for waiting for government. And so he was wanted to listen to that. So I mean, I'm just hanging out with Chris Guess. I'm listening to the music. I'm getting, you know, it's all

the insider stuff. And then I can see that our exit is coming up. And I can, he is completely distracted. And so I know he's, unless I go, hey, man, I think that's our exit. He's going to miss the exit. And I did not say anything purposely, the leady would miss the exit. And I got to spend more time with them. So that's, it's close, but that's how it went down. And then we also, we were talking about for Dana Carvin. I've mentioned this to people that even work on Carving. They're like, you've got a fantastic memory, Mark. Sometimes. Really do. No, I told somebody I worked. to Carvey that you did some writing on it. And these are people that worked at the show that

weren't writers. They're like, no, David Cross was never there. And I'm like, the sketch that you told me that you wrote was it was a Newt Gingrich cold open for Dana. And it was like homeless people in a zoo or something or it was like, no, nothing I wrote got on. Really? Yeah. I was only there for about, I want to say two to four weeks at the most. And Bob, you know, who's tight with those guys, and we had done some Mr. show, so they knew who I was, and he's like, oh, you should bring Cross out here.

You know, he can, and there was like, Louis C.K., Steve Porell, Stephen Colbert, gosh, who else was there? Spike Ferristin and Steve O'Donnell, but maybe that they were there a little later. Carlock. I think that's where I met a bunch of those.

Ready for this? For other writers? Charlie Kaufman was a writer. Yeah. He got almost nothing on Nothing. He wrote the funniest fucking sketch that was making me laugh out loud cry about weird owl's brothers. So there's weird owl, there's regular owl, and there's weirder owl. And it was really funny. And then I met John Glazer there, and we were in a Sheridan office, and we were trying to write the sketch. It just didn't, it just didn't. It just didn't. work, you know. And I was, I was there, as I said, somewhere between two and four weeks, and that was it. And it was like a temporary thing. Like, come in and, you know, punch stuff up and offer your ideas. But they didn't want, what I don't even remember what ideas I pitched or what I wanted

right, but it didn't work. The other thing you told me is, because we were talking about Mr. Show. And at this time, very few people were aware that it was on Mondays at like, what, 1230 or something and like that, four episodes. It initially was on part of their comedy block, right? So it was Chris Rock show. That's probably how I discovered it, okay? Yeah, yeah. We were part of this, the, you know, HBO, late night, crazy, danger's own comedy block

or whatever it was. And there were a handful of shows, and I know we followed Chris Rock, but. It's a good lead-in, yeah. They get up for Emmys and stuff. You guys then were up for Emmys. Yeah, we won it. Didn't we win it? No, maybe not.

But we were up for like three, I believe, or three maybe four, but I think three over the course of it. And some of it was for music. We got one writing nomination towards the end. Anyway, they decided after our third season and we had done the fourth. Like we were about done shooting it. They said that we were going to move you to Mondays at midnight. They were like, what?

Why? That's not good. And they were like, oh, college kids watch something about college kids. And we knew, Bob actually knew it before I did. But Bob pretty much immediately was like, well, that's that. This is not going to work and it's going to die. And, you know. But at least they had Arliss.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Fun stuff. Everyone remembers that. You told me when we met the house. time also that I was asking about how you came up with characters. And he told me for Mr. Show, you said that that tofu ice cream president, whatever you played, that you had just put a hat on and there had a ponytail. That's right. And that's how you came up with the character. You just were playing around. Yeah. Um, you know, a lot of stuff comes from riffing, whatever, but that one in

particular, we had, we were in this weird, tiny little office somewhere on some lot like the Raleigh studio. It was tiny. And we had these weird little rooms that weren't even and either were like Angular and stuff. And some other production had been in there. I can't remember which one, but I went to put my computer on the desk, and I opened up a drawer to put some stuff in. And there's this hat, which we used.

It was the actual hat with a ponytail stitched into it. Like a wacky hat you might get at a, you know, silly store on Hollywood Boulevard or something. And then, you know, once you wear that hat, There's only a certain kind of person in this world who would have that ponytail and that hat. So that's how you came up with it. And also you told me at that point when we were walking over to the bar. And you did buy me a beer, by the way.

You told me when we're walking on the way. You said we're going to go, Will Ferrell's coming over with Molly Shannon and the new lady from Saturday Night Live, which was Anna Gastrider. It was two days before it was a Thursday. And it was two days before she debuted. And we get there and it's Tom Lennon and Michael Schoalter and me. And I'm just sitting there and like just, I couldn't believe it. You were like so cool to invite me.

But that experience. No, it was amazing. Also, you told me at the time, and I remember this, and then we can actually move on and talk about real things. You told me that you had all this per diem for something you just worked on and you got like a $60 pen. What was that? It was, uh, um, this movie that I had done.

And it was a long, long, long shoot up in Vancouver. And the lead actor. Steve Zahn, who I worked with since on a couple different times, who's just the sweetest, nicest guy. I learned a lot from him. And one of the things I learned, he's like, don't spend any your predium. Don't. Don't spend any of it. Just save it up. And then at the very end, just dump it on your bed. You see how much money you have. And then that's your fun money or whatever. And and I did. I followed his example. And I saved that. I don't, you know, I don't buy a lot clothes or anything like that. So it wasn't difficult. But yeah, I, so I'd save that my for DM and then

I'd be able to shoot. And it was a long shoot, you know, thousands of dollars. Very excited. Three and a half years later, I see you the next time. And this is when Janine Garavalo hosted Letterman. And I had just worked at Letterman. I was in the audience. I remember Reverend Jen was there in the audience. And she had like a costume on and like three other people having the same. They were all, so they were... Janine was hosted right, of course, yeah. Yes. I'm only mentioning this because Janine told me this. Did you know at the time that when she was hosting that she was intoxicated?

She mentioned to me she was. No. I don't... I just remember having a fun time. It was Bob and I, I believe, right? Oh, I loved it. That's why I was there. You guys in Galafinakis Network television debut. He couldn't get booked on any other late night show, and Janine gave him that, and then slowly Conan and all these others, places are like, can we see videotape of your Letterman appearance? Then he started getting booked

everywhere. He killed annihilated that night. You only did Letterman once. How did that go with him when you did it in 2000? I mean, I thought it was, I thought it was good. And I always wondered and tried not to, but couldn't help dip into taking it personally, like, why, I guess. But it seemed, I watched the tape of it. It seemed fine. I remember he asked me to, I don't remember what the entity was but to kind of say something, he was baiting me to say something negative about something. I can't remember what it was. And it was kind of weird and I didn't want to. And then I remember saying, you're putting me in an awkward position. And that got a big laugh from the audience. And I just wondered if it was, I don't know, I just never was on again.

You never knew with that. And I can tell you afterwards some of the people that were not welcomed after the show for the most minor things. It was... I mean, the only thing I can think of is because I said that thing and then it got a big laugh and I kind of wouldn't... I was avoiding the...

And it could tell he won't... That could have been it. I don't know what he was asking me. Maybe I just don't know, but... I have to look at the tape. I have a Don Giller who listens who was Letterman Archivist. I want to take a look. I've never seen it,

but I'll take a look. I'll let you know if I see it, if I notice anything. When you were doing a Caroline's in 93 year SNL audition, it started an hour late. It couldn't have gone worse. And to make the audience wait like that, Jim Downey and the producers, to start an hour late, the energy is dead. When it was going and you could tell it was just the audience reaction and everything. It was all.

Did you think in your head, though, when you were doing this, I'm losing the biggest opportunity of my life or this is, I'm never going to be able. to do this. Yeah, I think we all kind of were frustrated and you know, you have to put that aside once you get going. But the, certainly the hour that we were being delayed, you know, as it stretched from five minutes, 10 minutes to 15 to 20 was just a really, you know, hard because there's, I don't think it's hyperbole. to say that, you know, had we not started an hour late,

perhaps everyone's lives would be different. You dodged a bullet. You dodged a bullet. It was the right. Well, here's a, yeah, I'm very happy with the way things turned out, but less about me and about the other people in the troop. I mean,

really talented writers and actors in that sketch comedy group. And it was just sort of unfair to everybody. But you still met with Lauren. Was that after or before that you met with Lauren for 40 minutes? That was before. And then I had, I don't know if it was from there. Jim Downey was so gracious and nice and really encouraging. And he was great.

And he, because they had come up to Boston too prior to that. And he basically gave me an open invitation to come on and write, which is, you know, when I was younger, was, that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to be on S&L, you know, and so I went to L.A. shortly after that, very shortly after that, I got hired to write on the Ben Stiller show to come in as a midseason replacement. Came in and that, you know, inarguably changed the direction of my life and my career. And from there, Lorne wanted to hire two comedy writers just to write for the women, for women. Julia Sweeney was one of them. This was 90, 3 to 94. Christine Zander. How did you just laugh?

Bonnie Turner had loved. I just, there's something wrong with me, David. So yeah, Julia Sweeney suggested Rob Cohen and myself from the Stiller show. Rob had written on The Simpsons and Lauren knew me just from the comedy world, you know, that stuff. And so we were out there. And we both have meetings. I'll never forget my meeting with Lorne was so odd. And it wasn't bad.

It wasn't, you know, there are sometimes you walk out of a pitch or a meeting and you have a really good idea of how it went or an audition. And sometimes you walk out and you don't have a fucking clue. And that was one of them. And I was in there for a long time. And the only reason I know that is because when I came out, Julia and who else was there? There were a couple of people that I knew. I don't remember. At the time, it was the 93.

The ladies were Melanie Hutzel, Ellen Clegghorn. Those were, there weren't many ladies at that time. And I know Julia had been instrumental in getting me out there to get a meeting. And she was really encouraged. When I came out, she's like, oh, my God, that's, you were in there for so long. great. It was like 45 minutes. Nobody ever meets with them. I was like, wow, cool. But I barely, barely said anything. And my recollection of the meeting, and I've done this for other people, this is how the, I'd say, 85% of the meeting was like this. I'll be Lauren, and I'm going to,

you be me, and I'll ask you a question, and you start to answer. What do you think of alternative comedy? Well, I have to say, you know. Because I think that it's, and then he would ask me a question, I'd start to answer, and then he would just tell me his thing. It was like really 40 minutes of that. It was just, I don't know, it was what it was, but. Lovitz told somebody it was, somebody was going to be going out to a dinner with Lorne or something. And he told that person, be prepared to listen.

Because Lauren just, yeah, you're just going to hear him. And that's, and you know, and I've run into him. in various places over the years and always pleasant but you know, it was just odd, you know. I want to point out a month or two

after that you met with Ember, maybe even less you won an Emmy. That's that same year, September 19th, 93, you win the Emmy. And then SNL premieres like a week later. And I want to also point out they hired multiple people that year as writers that could not write sketch comedy.

I mean, they admit one person, Well, I'll just say it because Sarah wrote in her book, Silverman, she got no sketches on. She got one to dress. I mean, she's an amazing, amazing writer. She acknowledges at the time she wasn't ready. There was somebody else who I know who got only one sketch on. And then there's someone else that I think got one on as well. So there were writers that, yeah, they were just hired that, yeah, weren't getting stuff.

So I'm saying they could have used you. And Julia has said that was the most miserable year of her life over there. Yeah. It's tough. I do remember it must have been around that period because I think David Tell was writing on the show and Sarah definitely was and I went to visit. I clearly wasn't living here yet. So I went to visit and I came up to the offices and I went by the writer's room. It's big open. You can see. And I remember that the best way to describe it as I've described before is everybody lifted their head up because I came in with all this energy like hey guys what's up and I knew half the people there and everybody lifted their head up like there was an invisible six pound weight

that was hanging like it was slow and they were that it was and I remember that left a big impression upon me like this seems terrible you dodged a bullet as I said before that because I mean Attel would be sneaking out to do sets during the Thursday rewrites and like He would, I remember being at the show, I was in the green room that season, and at least a couple times he would leave the show early to go out and do sets during SNL, like after update, which you're supposed to. I mean, you're supposed to be there the entire time and he just didn't. Yeah. After a while, not even really care and stuff, but they should have put him on update and stuff, or like to do commentaries. I mean, he's a genius, but that would have been good. When you did Mr. Show tape, was it joyous or was it stressful? Was it just pure fun?

Like, how did you handle that pressure or was there pressure during the tape-ins? It was all those things. It was more stressful and less stressful. I know this is a paradox, but because Bob was so laser-focused on stuff. So I knew that he would observe things, take care of things that I might not have noticed or wouldn't have thought to change, but also the fact that we had. to make these decisions on the fly and figure these things out made it more stressful. So it was, I do know that we don't share the same.

He, I love writing. I love writing with them. I love writing with the other writers. But that is his absolute favorite thing in the world to do. The performance stuff is less fun for him. And I'm the opposite. I like the writing. It's fun, but at some point I just want to go and not write and then performing is really fun. I remember thinking, you know, we had our little stage set, you know, where we'd come out from the wings and those never changed. And I was always on the left, stage left, and Bob was on stage right, I mean, for most of them. But I would look over and I'd have my water and the little thing and I'd be so psyched to do it. And Bob is just not. happy, he's not smiling. He's like, and I was like, come on, man, this is when we're supposed

to have fun. Let's, let's have fun, you know. And it wasn't until maybe everything was added and done that he could enjoy the process maybe somewhat. Yeah, I mean, it was, I do think his greatest joy came in the writer's room. I get that. Now, there are a lot of people were like that. What, didn't John Hamm come to the tapings? I mean, he wasn't even close to being famous, but But wasn't he at the tapings? I'm not sure, but there's a crazy list of people. I still meet people. I still meet people.

Gosh, who? I was just talking to somebody a couple days ago. It was like the biggest thing to get into that thing. I know Margaret Cho, you could see in the audience. You could see, I think Alyssa Milano, maybe during Farton Gare. Oh, yeah, Alyssa Milano dated. Wait, Alyssa Milano, is that it? Yeah, I think it was Alyssa Malano dated, or I'm, I'm,

maybe I'm mixing her up with somebody, another actress, but, you know, like a hot young actress was dating, a guy who did some stuff with us, production-wise, super cool guy. He was in a band, and so she'd be in the audience a lot. Yeah, it became the thing to go to. But yeah, the list of people who were there before they made it is. Who are some of the others? Do you remember? I think, I know Mike White is, in the audience, and I did a terrible, terrible insulting thing on the commentary for one of the shows. I'm like, look at this guy and, like, pointed out how awkward he looked, which is terrible. I'm so sorry. Mike White, who is? I'm so sorry. I should know this. Is it? Mike White, who did

the White Lotus shows? Oh, yes. Okay. Yes, okay. We're a very, you know, talented guy. and, you know, deserves to hate me for sure because that was kind of shitty of me. I had a day job who wants to be a millionaire then later. And we were doing celebrity millionaire, and it was Martin Short. I think it was like 2001. And Bernie Brilston was there. And he goes up to Regis. He's like, I have these two young kids, Bob and David, and was talking you guys up.

I thought that was great. I really, of all the people that I wish he was still alive. and I really, really, really regret that he never got to meet my wife because he would have fucking loved Amber. He would have loved him. Everyone loved that guy. It seemed, I mean, definitely Mike Ovitz, there are people, they just, you know, business-wise, not so much. But I got to meet him then, and you just felt like you've known him forever, the warmth that exuded from that guy. Oh, he's, he was awesome.

And he was, you know, a very much, very big cheerleader, instrumental in Mr. Show and our subsequent career. Bob and I, and his son, Mike, was, uh, worked on the show for a couple of years. Was there ever a sketch that didn't do well? Like, sketches that you cut that just when you were doing the taping, it just didn't get anything from the audience? We never cut a sketch, but there were a couple sketches that just fell flat. And one, one of my regrets, I don't have that many,

but one of them was the clumsy waiter or something sketch, the, there was a sketch. It was very classic. silly comedy sketch and oh I know what you're going to say it's the one you hate this sketch right it's the one where the waiters like oh we'll pay you double or we'll pay for half of your cleaning yeah yeah it's the word thing um I don't hate it it's just it's not one of our better sketches and Dino and Bob wanted to put a clock a

countdown clock or like this this sketch will don't worry the sketch will be over in you know and a countdown clock and I was Like, no, no, no, don't do that. Don't tell people the sketch is bad. And, you know, we went back and forth and then eventually I won out, and I wish I hadn't. On the watch in retrospect with that thing there. But there was another sketch that we fucking loved so much and we could never make it work. And it was the date with the queen. And it was based on a prank. idea I had about wouldn't it be funny to have a party and then you tell one person, hey, listen, I'm going to say it's time to go and, you know, everybody's going to start to head out,

but you stay behind because there's some stuff I want to talk about or whatever. But then you say that individually to every single person at the party, right? And then you're like, all right, guys time to go or buddy uh thank you so much for coming and then everybody would stall but everybody would want the other people to go and i just thought what a funny little prank to do and then we tried to make that somebody's idea to write that up as a sketch and then we could we did these things live you know and did all our all our sketches in front of audiences before we actually shot them and we you know because you'd learn a lot from that and you cut things that didn't work and try to explain, you'd think, oh, they'll understand this reference and people don't

and you have to change it, just the things that you learn from putting a sketch up on its feet, we could never make that work. And it doesn't. You watch it on the, it doesn't work. Oh, with you on the motorcycle and stuff after? That was the transition, but the actual, the actual sketch does not work. If a sketch show, if sketch, and I would say this, just with everything, even Python, if you can hit Ted William, for at 400 that's like a miracle and you got you and python were i mean i have to say just in terms of stuff that holds up like like ted williams beyond like it's amazing yeah how you have the stuff still i mean i know that bob was like the biggest python fan and i know you were in terms of

like larry sanders there are some things that still like sometimes feel like dated and stuff but your stuff is still plays i was going to ask about ben stiller show bob has said that he thought ben stiller show was overpraised. Do you think that that's true? I love this show. I haven't looked back at sketches lately. I thought in terms of what Ben was trying to do with SCTV, I thought it was right on. I think the show was the whole was never greater than the sum of its parts. And some of the parts were, I think it's a specific type of sketch comedy, a lot heavily parody, which is not my general cup of tea. I like a good parody, but it's not where when I'm coming up with ideas, it's usually not

that or parody a genre as opposed to a specific thing. There was a feeling of, for me, I can't say this for anybody else, but there's a feeling of like, you know, who does Ben want to dress up like today? Is it Bono? Is it Bruce Springsteen? Is it Tom Cruise? and who does he want to do, and then you're fitting the piece to that. You know, it's, and it was a very disparate group of writers.

And I don't think it was, I wouldn't say overpraised, because it wasn't that praised. I mean, it won an Emmy. I think years later, it maybe, I was watching, you guys went in an Emmy and you're in the back when all of you go went up in disbelief. Oh, I was high out of my mind. I had gotten high, and so, yeah, I don't take that into account. What are your favorite talk shows that you've done? I mean, I'm looking at the 16 Conan's, 16 Jimmy Kimmel's, nine Carson Daly's.

Colbert, you did seven on the report where we worked together because I worked on that show, and then you did three to CBS. You did a John McEnroe show when he had his talk show, because 2004. What are some of your favorite things that you're? recall from going on these shows, if anything? My favorite of those, all those late-night show experiences, were specifically, they're very similar, but it was Colbert and Kimmel, because they both are really good at rolling with whatever you do,

and they're both genuinely funny, smart, caring people who are pretty ballsy. And I have a relationship with them. That goes from before they had the show. And they also let me fuck around, which I tend to do on, you know, nine out of ten of those appearances. I'm fucking with format or doing something silly. And they can just roll with it. And it's fun.

Were you surprised with Colbert that that clickbait thing that David Cross? There were headlines. David Cross walks off the Colbert late show. I know. It's such, I mean, yes and no. You can never be too surprised at how gullible some people are, but it was just clearly, clearly a joke. It was a bit. It was clearly a bit.

If you're scrolling Twitter, though, and you don't want to stop and you just see this, like, you know, David Cross walks off, Colbert. I don't know if you know this. You're at the Colbert Report when I worked there. You literally were part of changing all of our lives that worked on the show, and I don't know if you remember this, what happened is this was originally we were supposed to do 40 episodes and if the network liked it we were going to get picked up for like a year and then keep going with the show it was maybe a couple weeks into the show and it was going really really well and Colbert I think it was like on a Friday he maybe he calls us in or after a taping and it was the first time I ever saw he was very

stressed out and he's like you know we've been doing great but lately we've been there's been problems and we have to really get on it. And, you know, we did a voiceover recently with David Cross and there's problems with it. Why don't you play it? Play it right now. And then it's you doing a voiceover. And in other it is, I can't believe the Colbert report got picked up for an entire season by Comedy Central. And that was the reveal for all of us. And it was like, I couldn't believe that we had employment for a year and that they had you record that. And it was just like for everybody that we all just believed in the show so much i mean i left a full-time tv gig um and people couldn't believe i was leaving um to work on a 40 episodes but i i i knew

john stewart was producing and i knew colbert's abilities and i just really believed in it but um yeah that was one that was one of the that guy's so smart i mean yeah i mean i think all those guys behind the does yeah he's a really good really good guy yeah what are your thoughts on norm macdonald He was one of my favorite talk show guests. Oh, Norm was amazing and just a true, cool, smart, funny dude all the way to the end, you know. Yeah, he's one of the smartest, yeah. He's great, yeah. And Balzy, again.

Oh, my goodness. I mean, when he went, he hosted Saturday Night Live and did his whole monologue that they asked him not to do saying that the show wasn't funny. And he was funnier than the cast and the SPs and stuff. Iowa Oh yeah And then You know The stuff with OJ Simpson

Was just Oh gosh It was relentless Him and Jim Downey Relentless Yeah When you know I read something today

And I was surprised But it said growing up In Georgia That one of your major influences Early on growing up Was Carol Burnett show With the cast primarily With them

Cracking up And breaking character Is that true? It was something that I loved I don't know If I'd say inspiration or whatever you said. Younger people aren't going to know what this is,

but there used to be TV guide. It was a little magazine that came out once a week, and it'd be by the, where you check out at the grocery store, and I'd be with my mom, she's doing shopping, and I would get the TV guide, and the very first thing I do was flip to Calabinet Show listing to see who the guests was going to be, and they would have a tiny description of a sketch.

I loved it. I loved the, I love watching that show. I loved how much fun they were having. I loved watching Harvey Corman and Tim Conway. I, it was great. When I was a kid, it was, I haven't had anything comedy, too. I was, I was in the most comedy. Yeah, I mean, there was so, I mean, three networks and stuff, so you can watch all you can get.

You tell the truth sometimes when most famous people wouldn't in terms of Richard Dreyfus, I think, was on the view. And they asked him why he did this Oliver Stowe. movie and he said for the money. And I know that you've said that before. I mean, you said that chipmunks bought you, I believe, a house or scary movie bought you your New York place. You could move from California. Yes. And to do this. And you said, and I couldn't believe this that chipmunks paid you more paid more than all your projects, TV books and pilots combined. Yeah. For that. And for you to be

that outspoken, do you think being that outspoken has affected your career at all just in terms of people not being thrilled, certain producers? I mean, maybe I will tell. I don't think so, but I... But you don't care. No. You're a guy that wouldn't care. Like, that woman, did that woman from the chipmunks, did she ever contact you?

Or did you ever run into her after you went on Conan and talked about her? What was her name? She's one of the producers of the chipmunks. Yeah, it's just terrible. You were doing Todd Margaret in England. you were not required to even be there and they put you, she makes you come to like a carnival cruise ship for five days and wear a mascot costume where it could have been anyway.

No, no, no. It was 10 days total. It wasn't five. Wow. So any other production, they would have just gotten an extra to wear a costume like they do on movies because you had no real lines and stuff that you could even deliver. But you felt she was messing with you,

a power play or just didn't like you? They were really shied to me right out of the gate, and I didn't understand why. And it's, you know, I've talked about this a bunch, and it's, it's well trod over, but they were difficult in a way that at first you're like, are they being difficult on purpose? and then it became clear that they're fucking with me and they're and they were terrible to my to my representation and they would come back and go they're just awful and they weren't doing this to the other actors not that I know of I have no idea I doubt it

they were just so shitty and but went above and be out like like as I said in the beginning it was like is are they aware I mean are they doing this on purpose and then eventually became apparent they were. And to kind of put this in the context of it wasn't simply I got to set and they were being shitty. We had been asking for close to a year. I want to say 10 months when we heard that they were going to be doing a third and I was contractually obligated to do it whether I'd be a part of it. And going back and forth and they said they don't know. We're not sure. Maybe we don't think so he might be better da-da-da-da on and on the reason being is that i was about to shoot

the second series of todd margaret which i am a producer on as well as all the other things and i have minimum 50 people who are counting on me for employment and you know are carving time out of their lives and have families and say no to work because we're all under the assumption this is going to be this is going to go and i mean i'm in london at the time and uh had been there we were about ready i think we were we had started pre-production we were we had the first uh i want to say four scripts and we'd already started pre-production people we've got production studio and offices and hired people and again we had been asking for months and never got a straight answer.

And even sometimes they said, we don't think so. We're not sure, you know, the way the script is looking now. And then on whatever it was, I remember exactly where I was. I was in Herod's with my wife, who was not my wife yet, but with Amber. And we went to the food hall. It was like a big, fancy date. You know, we'd go to the food hall and walk around. And we were in the little front thing.

get a call. And it's like, hi, David, I have, you know, they name everybody from my team. You know, I have blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and blah, blah, blah, and blah, blah, and blah, blah, and blah, blah, and blah, blah, and blah, blah, and blah, and the phone for you. And that's only good news or bad news ever. When you get, when everybody, when your lawyer and your manager and your agent are on the other line, it's only really good or really bad. and first thing my manager Tim goes hey are you sitting down and I know I know my heart sinks and I know what it is I it's just a I just know I'm like what's going on and then he tells me there so they are doing they do want you in the third chipmunk movie and they need you to be in Hawaii I'm in London they need you to be in Hawaii for wardrobe and rehearsal I think it was like in five days or something like that oh no they give you five days notice yeah it was

like processing this information and then those guys are can anticipate my reaction and they're very upset and they're just talking about how awful they were and i'm like i can't i can't even physically do that i mean i can't how can i don't even have i don't have clothes i mean it's winter and linton i can't go to Hawaii. I mean, I can't even get on a plane that I'd have to go to, you know, amongst all the other things. And, you know, eventually we figure this thing out. The people at Fox, who produced the movie, Fox 2000 said to my guys, if he isn't there, we will sue you for breach of contract. And I'm like, I've got all these people here where we've got offices. We've been asking and they're like, I know, I know. And it was just, I mean,

It was just terrible. It was terrible for everybody. And then I'm like, wait, rehearsals, I work with, you know, I work with puppet. I work with animated things. Just what am I rehearsing? What do you mean rehearsing? And then I get the script and I'm fucking all over it. There is no, unless they did a rewrite in, and I'm being, you know, this is for real. Unless they did a page one rewrite a week prior in which my character didn't exist, now all of a sudden,

all the way through it, which of course didn't happen, then they were just lying. And I don't, there's a thing that you see it in Washington, too, in D.C. in politics. But there's that kind of person and there's the relationships that people have in certain businesses where it's all about the deal. And they're at each other's throats and you and da-da-da-da-da-da. up. But at the end of the day, somebody, quote, wins and somebody, quote, loses. And then they're kind of friendly about it. You know, both parties while the injured party is just like, what the what was that about? And they're like, you know, all right, you got us on that one. And they go back

to being friends and having lunch and stuff and palling around because that's the, how that relationship works organically, you know, is people have to work together. And you have to sell them your product. They have to buy the thing you're selling. you can't have too much animosity, but end result is, you know, some damage to a lot of people or projects or whatever. And it was really weird. It was such a, from the get-go, if he's not there, we'll sue him. Like, that's your answer? Like, he's in production. He's, we've told you this, we've asked you repeatedly. He said, I will do it. I'm happy to do it. I just can't start this thing until I know. You have, just let me know and we'll delay it and we'll,

we'll start in, you know, March or April. It's not that big a deal. And they, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. They were, they were so shoddy to me in, in numerous ways throughout the whole movie. It was, it was a terrible, awful experience. And I'm sorry to bore people with the story yet again, but, um, you asked for. Oh, I did ask for it. Did you ever run into any of those people since?

Have you run into any of the producers or had any contact? Oh, no. I mean, I don't live in L.A., so I'm not going to. That's true. And they're not going to hire me. You know, why would Karen, after what I said, I mean, I cost myself $150,000 by saying what I said on code. How so? I would have gotten a bonus, but I, whatever the legalese is in the contract of denigrated the film or didn't promote it.

You told people not to see it. Yeah. I mean, it's anyway, yeah. I want to talk to your podcast because for the longest time, you're not a podcast. podcast listener, comment, and it's like everyone has a podcast. You resist it for so long. Why did you finally say yes to it? Because you really don't need to be doing it. Well, I see the value clearly of doing it. And if I can reach a bigger audience and those folks come down to see me do stand up, you know, when I go out and tour, then it's kind of worth it. And here's

the mitigating factor in all of this is I enjoy it. like doing it it's oh i mean it's clear and stuff i just think it's hilarious that you pitch them just you know i just want to talk to my friends and and they're like you need a hook yeah that's what they said and that's after like years of them going you got to do a podcast man do a podcast you should do a podcast it'll uh you know it'll get your name out there whatever podcast that's what the kids are doing and um it's like and i didn't not do it for any you know particular negative reason And I just were like, I'd rather spend my time doing something else. I don't need to do a podcast.

It's all right. And then when I finally did say, yeah, I'll do one. Then it was just this stupid fight about, you got to have a hook, got to have a hook. The hook is I'm hanging, talking to, we're having a good conversation, you know. And then you gave them the five senses. It's going to be about, I'll talk about the five senses. And then they were happy about that. And then you proceeded not to talk about the senses almost at all during the interviews.

Well, because we didn't get to it. It would have been a, that's not what I wanted to do. And if I'm sitting there with... I get that. I just think that's funny that they're like, you need the hook and then it's in the title. I told them. I tried to not have that. You have amazing, amazing guess.

It's so good. And I'm looking right now, I was around 46 city tour that goes through December at David Cross.com. And then summer stage on August the 8, that's you and your super pals. Yeah. Have you played there before? No, no. That'll be pretty fun. It's a good lineup.

5,500 seats, something like that, big amphitheater outside, Central Park. Yeah, it's Bob and Sarah, Fred. Sarah Stalerman, Fred Armisen, a bunch of people. There are people that aren't listed that'll be there that are really good, too. That's amazing. I am so grateful we have to do this. This is my last question, and I don't want it to be a downer. It's just inspiring that you had it so hard growing up, you know,

You grew up really poor and your mother struggling, three siblings. Your dad wasn't in the picture. When you got famous, did he ever come to you for money? I've heard of certain people that once they got famous, their parent ditched them. They'd come and, you know, like, I know that John Stewart had some issues. I don't know with his dad who left and stuff. Did you ever have any of that? It was so far removed.

I didn't. The answer is no. But I was, the last time I talked to him, you know, I was a teenager and I didn't really become successful outside of like a kind of culty way until I was, you know, mid to late 30s. So so much time had passed, you know. And, you know, by the time I was, you know, making regular appearances on TV and getting bigger parts of movies and things like that. and certainly by arrested Bellman. I mean, there was so much, I think it would damage his pride. I can't believe he's on the Upper East Side, or he might be on the Upper East Side,

and George is so close to him, but so far. Yeah, it's weird. Oh, man. It's just now, it's inspiring. I mean, when you moved to Boston and stuff, you didn't even have a day job. I mean, you really made it happen really quick. I mean, you were living poor in an apartment with cockroaches. You dropped out of Emerson.

You might have spent 19, but just the fact. You haven't had to have a day job since you were whenever, 19 or so, making it happen. Just an inspiring story. I had plenty of day jobs. I mean, I would not have the day job once I started making enough money in doing stand-up. But, you know, I worked at a, in the warehouse of a place called goods, which was like a kitchy store on Newbury Street. I worked for a travel agency, a big kind of travel agency pain, and I would go to the

Worcester, the warehouse in Worcester and get load up a truck with materials and then distribute them around Boston. And I worked for a mail room and a law firm for Palmer. We have Palmer and Dodge with the cave dogs and other folks. And then I worked as a bike messenger where this completely shady sketchy thing out of stouthey this family and was all under the table stuff and you know I had these little things here and there but I was able to

I would quit them because I was like oh I've got I'm starting to get a hundred dollars hundred and dollars every third night doing stand up I mean I didn't have anything I just chose not to have a day job but it's not like I

it's amazing no just your whole arc I want to get you Werner Herzog. You tape in L.A. too, right? You do your podcast in L.A. and New York. Yes. It's so damn good. I just, um, whatever, whoever you've had on and stuff with Bob and Janine, it's just, I don't know. It's, I could, that's my nightmare is not having any preparation and sitting down with somebody and you're just so good at it. I mean, you just show up and it's, like, you and Joe Firestein, like, just making stuff up for, and I'm like, are they, is anything real in this?

Nothing was real. It was just so beautiful. It was a beautiful, wonderful thing. Thank you for doing this and thank you for being nice to me when I was 20 years old and when I saw it whenever I've seen you. You know, Janine wrote in the Mr. Show book, she wrote a forward for mentioning that when boys, I guess they'd probably be college, high school, would come up to you and Bob and literally be crying because they were so excited to meet you. Did that really happen? I don't know about literally crying, but there was certainly, there was a. a healthy amount of awkwardness, sure.

I was one of them. I was one of them. David, thank you so much for doing this. I'm grateful. I wish you the best with everything in your tour. My pleasure, and I'm glad you had a positive experience with me back in those days.

Of course. No, you bought me a beer. I was 20 years old. Broke the law. Thank you for everything. It was great talking. Thanks for putting it up with the 22 minutes of tech stuff. I owe you.

That's all right, man. All right. Thank you, Mark. I'll see you later. Thank you so much. Take care. Bye. You too. Thanks for listening.

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I'm going to be. It's. I'm going to be. I'm going to be. Thank you. Thank you. We're going to be able to be. I'm going to be.

I'm going to be. I'm going to be. I'm going to be. I'm going to be. You know, I'm going to be. Thank you.