Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - David Koechner

Episode Date: August 20, 2024

David Koechner joins Mark to discuss being on Saturday Night Live, auditions for SNL, starting out in Chicago with Chris Farley, & his classic Gerald sketch with host Christopher Walken. Presented by https://latenighter.com/ and check out https://latenighter.com/podcasts/. Tour Dates: David Koechner Tour Dates Website: www.DavidKoechner.com Follow on IG: @davidkoechner Follow on X (Twitter): @DavidKoechner Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dkoechner Subscribe to YouTube Channel

Hi, I am Mark Malkoff and welcome to Inside Late Night, presented by latenighter.com. Today's guest is comedian, actor David Kekner. We discuss his time on Saturday Night Live, his early days performing in Chicago, and his classic Gerald sketch on Saturday Night Live with host Christopher Walken. Now, it's time to go inside late night. David Kekner, thanks for talking with us. Pleasure, pleasure. Where did we meet before? We met at SNL. I was there for your very first dress rehearsal and your very first air show. I was there.

Really? Oh, yeah. I can tell you everything that was cut from the show. Your stuff all made it. I don't think anything that you were in got cut. I can tell you everything that did. And I was there for the air. And I remember your pal Jim Corain was there. Nice. Was Jimmy there for the first show? He was. He was. Yes. He was there for show. show one, you should talk to him. But I mean, that's my recollection. I could be off. Just because I remember him talking about how John Popper was a hit with the ladies at the after party. Maybe you don't expect John Popper, but you're a singer of a rock band. Right. Well, he's a rock star. Yeah,

yeah, yeah. Mariel Hemingway was the host, correct? That's right. Yeah, it was Mariel Hemingway. And the only two, I've mentioned this before. You know, S&L's this celeb packed show, but back then it was, you know, they were having trouble getting hosts. The only famous people I remember on the floor was Martha Stewart with Bob Morden, who produced Letterman at the time, but I think she was really the only one that was back there. Things changed. I remember by the time Terry Hatcher hosted Jim Carrey is dancing to Dave Matthews band on the side wildly, and it changed. But in that beginning, what was that like your first? What sticks out? Because I remember, yeah, I mean, I was there. I remember everything. But what sticks out? Well, I don't. I don't. I

The thing is, you know, I didn't have anything to compare it to, other than the year before was a disaster. Remember the year before that article? Oh, yeah. I mean, from a writing standpoint, and the writers and the actors were not together. And this was everyone mostly coming together. The energy was amazing in terms of the expectations. The synergy, it's such overward. It's so overdone.

But in terms of being there in the field, everybody, there was an excitement. that I hadn't felt in that studio for a while. Oh, really? Okay. Yes. And I was there the season before and the season before going to the show and stuff. Oh, you were? Oh, yeah. Oh, I talked to, I'm not going to mention who because I hope to get them on,

but one of the people that was hired, one of your contemporaries, before the show was like, all the sketches are good. We all have endings. We're all so excited. Everyone gets along. And then dress starts, and it's like pretty much any other dress. I mean, Sherry did the Donna, the prom thing, which didn't do great, which got cut, which they did the second.

week. Will Ferrell, who the audience, again, they had, there was no excitement because they don't know who this guy had. The last sketch of the night was Aquaman, a Dennis McNicholas piece. That didn't work. Oh, I remember that. Yeah. They buried. Jim Brewer had his own sketch, which was the shut up guy that got silence. It was definitely watching that, you know, Johnny Carson, I know you did the festival and stuff. 80% of what he says is acceptance from the audience. I mean, when they know who you are, you can get away with a lot. But you guys were all going. But you guys were all going. in the whatever the six of you that were high or the new newbies and just the audience just you know they didn't really get it yet it took a little time did you feel that uh i don't know if

i felt that on stage just because you've got so much of the stuff going on your head the last work i don't i can't like that how many years ago 25 yeah i can't believe it yeah i can't remember you know you remember the last later you don't remember the silences so much well i guess you do but I can't. You know a dress when something's dying and it's not going to make it to the show. That hurts. Can I mention a piece of dress with David Schwimmer, who I knew that you knew previously, that for whatever reason the audience wasn't there for. And I was going to ask you if you remember and I was going to describe it. Probably he's staying over at my house and I'm an ex-marine. Yes. I remember ex-military and you're just kind of creepy and it's uncomfortable. Yes. Like they don't know, like a guy said, you can't do that.

knows David Schwimmer. They don't know you. Why would they allow you? That was an old second city piece that usually worked, but it was too much. It was too much. In fact, one of the guys that came up to me as a director and said, we should have filmed that. It would have come across easier had we filmed it as a piece as opposed to a sketch. That was really hard. You had Will Farrell, Sherry, all these home runners that had the same experiences. I mean, that's what dress is. Even, I mean, everyone has, how did you know Schwimmer previously from Chicago? Oh, Chicago, yeah. He was in the looking glass theater company, and I had dated a couple girls from that theater company. It was interesting early on, because it was very, the sensibility

of some of the sketches were very dark. I remember that you did the voice box. You had the, the trachea thing, and you had like the dummy comedian. Oh, yeah, who was I? Was I? It was called Triumph performers, you have the voice box, and the dummy has the... Oh, that's right. I was a voice box, ventriloquist. Yes. So now we've got two jokes going on. A ventriloquist that has a voice box. That was the joke.

The show slowly got less dark throughout the season is what I saw. But it was interesting to see that progression. I don't know if you noticed that or not. As the weeks go on, all you think about is, am I getting on the show? You know, that's all you think about. You don't think about is this too dark. Is this so? And so I would oftentimes be frustrated by people who decided that they are the purveyors of what can and cannot be brought to.

table to the table read and in this idea that they're kind of looking out for me or something like that. I'm like, what the age? So that's frustrating, just a level. And some of those people were veterans either. I'm like, you don't know any better than anybody else. Plus, I've been doing stage work for the last 10 years. I know how to make an audience laugh. So the most remarkable thing about S&L is how no one there is invested in your success. It's the dumbest thing. It's, and it's top down. It's always been like that. It's, it's mature. it's passive-aggressive. It's narcissistic. I was at dress rehearsal for Anthony Edwards and you had so much on the show that week. My recollection, I could be wrong, is when you first did

Gerald, but it didn't make air. That was my recollection the first time. Was that, do you remember if that was the first time? Yes. But it didn't get to air in 95 that I know of it. Was the first one was Chris Walken, right? Or was that the second one? Right. That was January. That was the concert. the who he's a he's a security guard in a concert i think so yes i thought that that was it at anthony edwards i mean i just remember you and everything and most of everything made air just not that i remember yeah uh some of two things they had put that piece it was talked back so they couldn't see they had watched it on the monitor and plus i think nancy walls had mentioned to me and nancy and i had done second city together she said dave you look like a normal person they need they

need to have something that shows you're a different type of person that's not normal, that's doing all these things and getting away from it. Now, I had successfully done that character all the time on stage, and it always worked. So it didn't, it didn't even occur to me. And that's where we came up with the comb over and the sideburns. I believe that was Norm Hiscock, who came up with those additions. And then the one with Chris Walken, which is still one of the funniest things, was that you and Higgins, Steve Higgins, wrote together? Who did you write it with me McNicholas and um i forget her name now um she's changed her name oh oh i just had harper steel on it's harper yes yes Harper so they wrote it and higgins actually came up with the tag

so funny that thing yeah that thing worked like glass man that thing killed it yeah and i remember also during air i had to cut pieces to get it shorter so during air Lauren is doing this on the floor right so i'm cutting uh dialogue to the punch line. I couldn't believe I was doing it. I was like, well, I can't, okay, because I'm like, it's the last sketch of the night and I can't get this thing cut, right? Or they can't just go out before we get to the end. I remember poor Joan Osborne was on the show. I was going to ask you about this. It was the first time in 10 years that a music person only got to do one song or second song, which was a dress guy cut. But she glared at me for the closing night thing,

you know, up on the stage. Good nights. Yeah. She was just glaring at me. Just staring at me. I'm like, in my head going, I'm a cast member. It's not my fault. You don't have a song, a second song. It was so hard for her because they had her sing her very big hit, if God was one of us as a very first song. You know, she wants to sing something new. This thing was a hit six months ago. But again, she has the second song to do the new song. And then that was the first of like three people ever clear got a song cut as well in like one or two other bands that season, and it was never been done. I don't know what the situation was. They don't know the politics of the show. I get it. Plus, we're humans. Yeah.

I imagine she was embarrassed, too, but here's the other thing. And you probably know this. When the musical guests play, the ratings drop way down. That is why I believed that they cut ever clear second song for John Goodman, why they cut. And O'Meier, as we both know, not the most creative guy. He was in charge, and they were, and my guess is that was the West host was the one that was doing that. Certainly not Lorne, I don't think, would have been cutting music. I don't either. I like that. I don't know how those decisions were made. So I was happy. He got my piece on. I was there for both of these two when Tom Arnold hosted and you got to do Gerald, which was very funny, hospital orderly, just getting him ready. Now, this was the

strangest thing. And I want to know if this happened during the season at all. So you know what at between Dress and Live? They decide what's going to get on. And they have these green sheets, which says the air and on the side is like what got cut and everything is time to the second. First of all, Braskey, Braskey too got cut, which I was surprised because that was really, really funny. Oh, really for that one. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that got cut.

But they were supposed to do Jimmy Tango's Bat Busters, which ended up on Jim Carrey. And it was down to they had like four minutes or whatever a sign. But then update was supposed to be 10 minutes and it went 16 minutes. And during the show, they had to cut a sketch. that happened when you were there ever that you know you see the board between dress and live okay this is what's going to get in and for whatever time or whatever reason uh no that meant that means you know oftentimes you're only focused on what you're doing and so you're got you're in a tunnel in a submarine and um you're just focused on what am i doing so any of the other stuff that's

going on other otherwise i'm not paying attention to because i'm still new and you're still going how am I getting my stuff on the air and what's working, what's not, and is the show going to survive? I have to say, you know, the Chris Walkin sketch that you did kill, but I was there for the John Goodman when you did Gary McDonald in the office with the coworkers. It absolutely did as well. He wasn't there for the Chris Walken, but I can't, I would imagine it did close because that thing killed. Even to this day, I call him Jokey, Gary McDonald, Jokey, people don't understand what's going on. Half the audience gets it. Half the audience just has no idea what this is supposed to be a joke. We all know people that say no at the end of when they're funny,

right? Someone is not funny, he says something funny, it gets in a laugh. They go, no. Like I was just kidding, I wasn't trying to make a laugh. And so I've tried it so many times to incorporate it to my stand-up, and it's just, it's so difficult to do. I've had people who I'm doing the piece, and it's just eating it in stand-up, but I'll keep it pretty tight. I've had someone yell out, what's going on? I will say when you first did it at the first time on update, it did okay, and then progressively it started killing. I mean, that's what happens with a lot of the characters.

The cheerleaders, the fifth show with Tarantino, it did, you know, I think that was the fifth or fourth show. It did okay. I mean, it did well, but it wasn't like people weren't freaking out. Even Madeline Con, when she, I think that was cheerleaders too. I don't, I could be off. Maybe there was all this applause. I don't believe so.

Speaking of Madeline Khan, who wrote the sketch with you and her with the bird that was in you carrying you. Jack Handy. Oh, wow. See, a lot of people think that he wasn't around that season, but he was doing the fuzzy memories. And whenever you saw a sketch character when their name was Johnny, the main sketch, it was almost always Jack Handy. And he got a couple Johnny's in, I believe. I was so flattered that he wrote a piece for me, you know. Oh, my goodness. I mean, I was talking to Robert Smigel and, you know, I talked to all those heavyways, the top of the top, and they all say he was the best. I mean, in terms of the sketch, right? And that's the writers. Yeah. So Madam Kahn, you did that and you did the

FOPs. I can't believe. I was looking at this. You did the FOPs six times in 20 shows, which is unbelievable. They got progressively worked. Well, I mean, it is one of those things where, you know, you get the joke. It's there. And if you don't mind my saying, here's what happened. Nobody knew what they were. And nobody knew what to do with them. The next year, when I'm off the show, I finally knew it to do with them. Okay. First of all, the Fagan character came from a ad in the Chicago Tribune. There was a musical version of Oliver Twist or just Oliver Twist coming to town, and the guy playing Fagan was standing in the back of the cast like this.

And I thought, he thinks this whole show is about him. Have you seen my Fagan? Yes, the delightful play, but have you seen me as Fagan? And so I had a couple of ideas of how to get it on. one was going to be him getting a job interview and something says just let's see work experience and he wrote have you seen my fagin so that that one never made it on and then mark McKinney said I think I have someone to pair with your fagin character and so that was lucian and they were delicious together but what I realized what should have happened

they're courtesans right they're seekers of power in the court so what should have happened was like they should have been climbing every week they should have had a devious plan to take over Saturday Night Live that would have worked because then I let's say I did Norm's thing first right and then I should have had maybe a host and then Lorne and then someone you know so just below Lorne then so we you've got somewhere to go rather than just kind of hammer the same joke which one understood. I mean, that was the season of let's do recurring sketches. Yes. I mean, they were throwing characters up that didn't do well sometimes addressed just because they just wanted to see the recurring characters because the season before, there really weren't any. But I

remember one time the Phops was the monologue and they had you do dense and dense ability. I think that was Alec Baldwin. Yes, Baldwin. We were on the cover of TV guide. The Fops were on the cover of TV guide, which at the time was a big fucking deal. There were more eyeballs on TV guide in terms of like the viewership than almost any met currently any magazine I can ever, I can imagine today, certainly a print thing. Yeah, that was it was. For me, I thought, well, I've had one of the early

breakout characters. We're on TV guide. This cements my time here, you know? And then so I guess Don Olmeier didn't like the Phops. He thought they were gay or something like that. That's what I was told. Dylan O'Meer also was a power play in terms of with Lorne and was doing things, I think, just to kind of, there's never been anybody in the history of the show that had as much success their first season with recurring stuff that was an aspect. Now it takes some people

that have been on two, three years they get to get over with the audience and they haven't gotten over the first two years. It was really strange that that happened. Leading up to that, like in July, you're in Montreal with Wilfiel and don't you do the cool? Julio, the Gangsters Paradise Mime routine. Yes. How did you know that? Oh, I do. I just do as much research as I can.

And I heard it was really, really funny. So you're with Will. Does it even occur to either of you that you wouldn't be coming back at that point? And that killed, by the way, I heard. That routine killed, I heard. I think I did joky, too, that in Montreal and it killed. I found out when we were at the Kennedy Center doing a second city company of me, Nancy Walls, John Glazer. Who else? Correll was in it. Correll and his wife, Nancy, and Tim Meadows

and Adam McKay. It was a power lineup. And I found out because there had been a little snippet on one of the rags in New York that said, Lauren Michaels has wielded his mighty axe, and we will not be seeing Nancy Walls and David Keknery actually. I'm like, that's how I found out. I was going to ask you if Lorner Higgins would have called your Ken Emong or if your representation would have gotten a call. What happened? I've never heard of that. All I heard was that West Coast made the decision. I knew that Lauren liked me, but I think he could only protect a couple of pawns, and he chose Mark McKinney, because Martin McKinney was on the chopping block too. Mark McKinney, he knew from kids in the hall. They had a history together, and the audience knew who he was. Yes. He just got a baby.

So I understood that, but then I didn't understand why I was going, although I was told that you shouldn't like so and so. I can't believe that, first of all, that that happened. And then at one point does Lauren say maybe we'll talk to Conan, he was the EP of Conan, to you. Yes. Yes, it was ridiculous. Doing, um, sketches. Because they've never done it. You'd be a permanent repertory. You'd be like, um, more like they wanted you to be like Tim Conway to a Carol Burnett type thing. You would be there just doing sketches. Was that like a regular though? Yes. They didn't have the budget for it. Lauren just, you know, decided. that should happen. I think that, I think he knew it wasn't going to happen, but then he,

I think he realized it wasn't going to be his fault, right? He wanted to keep me. I actually had a meeting with Lauren, which nobody gets. When you get cut from the show, you don't get a meeting with Lauren. I did. I've never heard of this. Please, tell me. Oh, yeah. He said, Dave, you'll be fine. If people know you, don't do a sitcom, Bill Murray never did a sitcom. Terrible advice. All I want to say for people listening is a lot of people, and this has happened since one of the best things they've has happened career wise

as they leave the show and they get so much work within a couple months you leave the show you take your U-Haul you move to L.A you meet your wife you have development deals

every single year yeah you look at your IMDB page from that until now is monstrous I mean in terms of somebody that's left

the show that has had crazy longevity I mean you're like the perfect example, I mean, of that. Yep. I mean, yes.

I was able to go on and have a very good career. You still do. Well, yeah. But I always wonder, you know, had I've been able to do, here's the thing. I had already made up my mind. I was only going to stay three years in my mind. Because you signed the six contract, but in your head, you're only going to do three. Okay. Right. And you know what they say about the universe? It listens. I mean, it listened to you when you were 13, when you were in Tempton, Missouri, when you said, I'm going to be on SNL.

Yep. And then it listened when I said, I'm not going to stay here. It didn't hear three years. It just heard I'm not staying here. And then I left, which was the, I will say, even still probably the hardest thing that's ever happened in my life. It didn't make sense. It really didn't make sense. How, growing up in a conservative family, were you able to stay up and watch SNL? No. But my parents went out dancing, and I had to watch my little brothers and sisters. And so I would watch, because of Missouri, it's on at 10.30. I was always wondering that because I know your parents were very conservative. Yes, they're very Catholic, yeah. So 1030, you're able to watch the show. You know, Johnny Carson's mom especially would never compliment him to his face. Would your parents give you compliments about being on SNL? Because they did to the press. I have some newspaper articles that I'm looking at right now where they said that they were proud of you. Yes. Did they ever do

that to you? Not really. I think they thought that show is a bit too racy. I mean, my mom said she, you know, she preferred I would done something else. Now, she has no idea like, mom, this is, this is the job. Everyone wants this job in comedy. But, you know, it's okay. I will say this. Fast forward to Anchorman premiere. She gets to go and she's in a limousine with her son.

Quote, we got to walk the famous red carpet. The movie was very funny and we're proud of Dave. We couldn't believe we were there. That's Margaret Ann in the Tempton. times, which, and was there a shift? Was there a little bit of a shift when you started doing? I think at that point, they finally stopped. I was told that up to that point, they had always worried what's going to happen. But I was constantly working. That's what your dad said in print. He said that they interviewed him and your mom said, we're proud of him. This was Christmas.

You go to the Christmas first Christmas on SNL. We're proud of him. They have the photo of the three of you was smiling. Okay. And your dad said, says, Cecil, it's nice to see him not struggle anymore, but I guess in his mind, he's like, he's leaving the show. Right. You know, the thing is, what they think is struggle is the divine. Because the struggle was nine years in Chicago, which was the greatest years of my life. Your timing with everything has been absolutely perfect. It was perfect that you did not get mad TV when you got to Chicago in 87 to start taking classes. The the people that were there, it seems like the timing was just absolutely everything lined up.

100%. You're right. Yep. Well, we all came there because we were all adolescents watching the show. And so we all descended upon Chicago at that same particular time, all these incredibly talented people. Now, I like to say that most of them had one goal in mind, which was to be good. I know there's several that really wanted to be famous more than anything else. I've never been a fame guy. I know it's sounding stupid, but I just wanted to be good and have the respect to my peers. Now, you've got to be a little bit hungrier for the rest of it. Did some of them that succeed?

Were they the ones that wanted to be famous? Did a few of those actually succeed to be famous? Yeah, yeah, you mean out of Chicago? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. That's interesting, because a lot of times with the Chicago people, it's not so much happening, but there were a few people like that.

Okay, that's interesting. Yeah, yeah. You know, that's not a bad thing. I mean, to have an ego when you're a performer thinking you're But what are the odds that you and Farley are in these classes, small classes with Sharna Halper and Indel Close, and you both get SNL? I mean, that's pretty incredible. Crazy. But Farley was pretty clear right away that this guy was ready, right?

Oh, my God. Yeah, you don't compare yourself to Farley. As the Stoics say, comparison is the thief of joy. But back then, you've got to keep this meter running of like, am I keeping up with my peers, right? And I remember, like, oh, don't even put Farley in the hot tub with you. Because in your mind, you're like, I was starting in the ocean, then I got to this lake, then I got to this pond, you know, you get, you know, do you distill it down where you're, it's you and a group of peers that you can tell are kind of outpacing everybody else, right?

I mean, it's Tina, Faye, it's Amy, Adam McKay. I mean, we could go on and on with all these people that you're meeting. It's unbelievable. So you and Will Farrell both get hired the same day at SNL. Yep, same day. And that night, is it that all of you get in a limo with Lauren and like Steve Higgins and Jim Singarelli, who does the commercials and you all had to Yankee Stadium is, did that happen? And if so, what was that like?

Because even to hear Higgins in the meeting whisper, you're hired, because Lauren's talking you and you don't know, you didn't know, Lauren doesn't say you were hired. That day, what was that day like? And what stands out about just stepping in the limo with him? It was surreal. And now we're in separate limos. It's me, Will, and Steve in one limo. and then Singarelli and Lorne in a different one, right?

And so we got hired that day. No, the other thing is on my mind is Lauren said, Dave, what do you want to do about your hair? You're going to be introduced to America now. You can have a wig if you want. And then he named five people that had plugs or a hairpiece. And then so my mind is kind of spinning. They're going, oh, shit.

Is he telling me to get a hairpiece or is he asking? Because I'm thinking, how do I live this down? It's just because you're friends and family. I mean, America doesn't know who you are, but you have to go back to, you're going back to see your friends and, you know, they're going to rag on you and stuff. Oh, my God, you'll never be authentic the rest of your life. So I was like, oh, no. And it was at the end, I'm walking out from Yankee Stadium, Lauren goes, Dave, about the

hairpiece, it doesn't matter. You're you. You'll be fine. Lauren never speaks about giving advice. I thought that this was the strangest thing. You're not sitting together. The three of you with Higgins and Will are sitting at one place, like, behind the home plate, which is his regular tickets. And then is Lauren behind you several rows?

Lauren's like 10 rows behind us. Wow, that's for him to give up seats like that doesn't happen a lot. I wouldn't think, like, if he's there. I assume this was meant for Will and I to bond. I mean, you know, I think everything is just kind of manufactured one way or the other. We're just excited as hell. It's like, what the hell's going on? I think Lauren thought I was going to make it.

that's why, you know, I was one of the earlier ones hired. And then so it's me and Will. I think because I would go to dinners all the time with the host, me and Will and Sherry. And then eventually it wasn't me, right? So he would take, he'd take forecast members out with the host for dinner on Wednesday night. And then eventually I wasn't part of those dinners anymore. And you just go, oh, okay. The whole thing with the host dinner and all that politics and stuff. I can't even imagine. So did you, they fly you out to L.A. to audition for Matt TV? No, no. No. I only, I only, did we take to our auditions. And how does that get in the hands of Pam Thomas, who's an SNL producer, who was famous for Mike Myers? I mean, Lauren had never seen him perform and just on the

word, he said, okay, we'll hire him and it doesn't happen. She was married to Dave Thomas, so she knew a lot of people, and she had a great understanding of comedy. And I think she was the casting, working with the casting people for Mad TV. And then I think she sent my tape to alarmed. So you go in there and I've never heard this and I talked to people all the time about how you know, terrifying it is or, you know, somebody like Fred Armissons, like I wasn't terrified because I knew I wasn't going to get it. You walked in and what was your mindset? My mindset was I'm going to get this. You knew it. Yes. I mean, you made the decision you said that I'm going to get this. And I've never heard also somebody who did an audition, which you have to have the original character,

political actor impression, that you knew what characters you were going to do, but you improvised. You had nothing written, which has never happened in the history of the show that I'm aware of. Dumbest thing ever. It worked. But the problem is, I'm an improviser. So I'm like, I'm just going to go do it. Because at that point in your career, this all sounds so arrogant, but you're having success every night easily, on your own. You know, I had a day job with Stephen Colbert. He would always talk about the Chicago thing about how you could get up back then when he was with you, five nights a week in that stage time. To get stage time like that is very, very difficult these days. I mean, you would probably have to produce your own show

is to get that much stage time and be barking to get audience members. But the thing is, is you were so ready. Now, you figure you do Pap Buchanan and then you do for your celebrity impressions. It's Jack Lemon and Jim Carrey in a movie together. In a body movie. And you're making this all up. And there's no laughing. A little bit later 10 years, they started laughing a little bit more, but you don't hear the laughter. I mean, they're purposely. Right. I think someone warned us, you know, there's not going to be laughs. So I just shut all that out. Then why on your second audition when you come back? And of course, you knew you were going to get the show. Why did you write it out entirely? I realized that was a fool's errand to

not prepare more. So I'm like, okay, you've got it really knuckled down here. Plus, that's what is required, really. Yes. But you did know going in your audition that Lauren liked your work, which I mean, to go in knowing that is huge. And he thought highly, when you go in for your third and final and you get there, is that, that's when you find out you get the show. But is that when you see this person who, if you get the third meeting with Lauren, you're going to get the show unless you mess up. And there's one Chicago person that that happened to. I'm not going to mention who it was. But when you get there, is that when you see the person they think is British who did not get it that was going to get it? Yes. Do you know who that is? I don't, do you? No. No, I don't know. I don't know. I really want to dig deep and figure out for people that don't know, this was somebody that was auditioning that had a British accent, they assumed was British. And then they did it, Andy Hoffman finally revealed at them the meeting with the sit down with Lauren. Oh, I'm not British, right? Is that how it were? That's my understanding of it. He, no one knew who he was. I don't know where he was from. I don't know if he's an L.A. guy. He wasn't a Chicago guy. He might have been a New York guy. An African, American young man who is British, so it gives all this other flavor to it, right? So this is a unique unicorn type person. And he's got such confidence because he's doing this British accent.

Now, always are kind of thinking like, this is all he does really, but whatever. He's very charming, the guy. He was very charming and bright. I'm going to dig. You let to email me. Oh, oh, I absolutely. So you and McKay in Chicago, you get, I don't know if it's your U-Haul or you're moving out, you know, you do the two-day drive to New York. What is the conversation like with him? First of all, just to say goodbye to your friends. And, you know, McKay was going to move out with the Upright Citizens Brigade together. And he gets SNL, which is that's a whole different thing.

That's hard to, you know, get hired. But what is that when you were McKay, like so fish out of water that drive? What was that like, the two of you? Well, three of us, Tom Giannis is also in the cab. Oh, yeah, Tom. Big dudes, yeah. Yeah, he directed a bunch of second city. And I know, yeah, I've met him before, nice man.

Got a bunch of stuff on. Yeah. I forget all the years he did the show. But he was there probably like four or five. He did like a couple. He did recurring thing. The only thing I know that he did recurring was Goat Boy, which is Goat Boy. But he did write some really, really funny stuff.

Yes, you did. Actually, at the very first show, he wrote AML, which was the commercial parody. That's right. That was him. I do want to say a dress rehearsal, Colin Quinn's gangster Barbie did Far better, but they saved it for the second show. And because they tried both, but that was Tom's, that I remember that being Tom's piece. Yep.

The AMA. So it's the three of you. So like, what is that like that tribe? I remember it was very cathartic in that we were, we would talk through our previous eight or nine years there in Chicago. And some of that was celebrating it. And some of it was going, yeah, these obstacles are no longer in my way. because they're you know show business is the same everywhere at second city or other places in town

there is some politic to be played and i'm not good at that a friend of mine um jo keef said to me once dave you don't suffer fools gladly he said it's an irish thing what's hard for us to do and anyway uh i always appreciate that i'm like oh you get me like i don't i don't i'm not here to f around with people who aren't talented or who have you know egos the size of that are somehow, you know, deciding whether or not you're good enough to do something. But anyway, they're not collaborative. They're just, they're just scared, whatever. I can name you 10 people.

But anyway, I won't. But anyway, so we were, it was very cathartic and just joyful, you know, just joyful. Couldn't believe what was happening to us, right? Yeah, the three of you out there. I wanted to ask, you, you were in that tool commercial parody, which is, you know, there's missing limbs. Now, was that based on somebody you knew, actually? that was McNicholas.

That was McNicholas. Okay. I thought I read something that you knew people that were missed, that actually did that. It was carpenters, I guess, you know, a family, and they're missing limbs. Yeah, I grew up in a small town. In my dad's manufacturing plant, two guys had lost fingers. Okay. Maybe that was what I was thinking, but that was McNicholas piece.

Do you remember when Rage Against the Machine was thrown out by security and what happened exactly? I mean, I know what happened. They were told not to, you know, hang a flag upside down and they did. But what did you witness afterwards? That happens that. That they'd hang me a flag upside down. And then the stage manager went and ripped the flag down so it wouldn't be seen. And I think they did they cut to commercial and they didn't get us to do a second song?

They didn't get a second song and they got thrown out of the building. I just didn't know if you saw them. I didn't remember that. I just, I remember I met Tom Morello and Morello and Will knew each other. Yeah, Morello said, you know, there was somebody. He didn't mention Will's name. I'm guessing it might have been him. Like some of the cast felt really bad.

Yeah. Now it's kind of silly to look back that that was such a thing. But Steve Forbes was the host, and I know that the rage, even wasn't a huge fan. You got to be in two funny sketches with Steve Forbes. One was that, that, I think, was it Adam McKay, the roof, the construction? Yes, the roofers, the roofers. That was really funny with Forbes pretending, you know, being a blue collar. Eddie Money, I love Eddie Money.

And then you got to do Gerald with him, the barbershop. Was that the one? Oh, did he get cut? It might have got a cut. I don't remember, but I thought you had one with him at some point. That sounds right. Yeah, they never quite got the medicine down for that. Like, how do you mix this thing together?

Gerald has to be accidentally in control of something. That's where it works best. Because otherwise, you just walk away from him. But when it's in a thing where he, you have to actually suffer this guy. So we always make it like, so like the orderly, right? You can't just leave your hospital bed. stuck with this orderly. Then I guess the barbershop, I barely remember that one. It must have gotten cut because the guy comes in for a haircut and then now he's subject to this guy. I remember

McKay had the perfect one. It was a guy who is, his car is turned over in a ditch on the side of the road and he encounters Gerald. And then Gerald basically rifles through his life. And, you know, the guy can't do anything. Then Gerald's making Gerald jokes, which was, which is as perfect a sketch as I could think up for Gerald. And I know that I think Lauren said, no, we can't shoot that. Like, yes, you can't. Because that night there was a building. They had the Brewer walking up a building. Like, yes, you can shoot anything. So, but, you know, they'll come up with whatever excuse because they don't get it one way or the other. Did you write the Gerald demo pilot before you got SNL? Jim Carrains in it. You're in it. And Pam Thomas is an EP on it. Was that before

S&L? Yes, before. That's summer before. Yeah, whatever that fall before, yeah. Oh, that's such a funny character. I mean, so you had the whole thing pretty much, what was it like doing Braskey? And also, what was it like coming back in 2013 and doing Braskey with Will and, you know, Paul Rudd hosted and Taryn and Taryn and Thompson? What was that like? Yeah, that was so much fun, obviously. I, you know, I got to do two Bill Braskees and then that's all they did that year that made it, too. the show, and then went on to do a couple more, a couple subsequent years. But yeah, Bill Braskey was always the thing that made us laugh the hardest, and they'd always put it at the end of the show. Was it McKay? McKay, yep. Well, actually, McKay came up the idea, and we would all sit

in Norm Hyscock's room and just pitch jokes. It'd be me and Mark McKinney and Norm, and I think Tom Giannis was in there, too, and McKay, yeah, and Will. We'd sit and just pitch jokes. jokes, and they would, you know, string them all together. Was it Steve Higgins and Shoemaker that tried to get you to do the Gerald talk show and you didn't want to do it? Yes, and I should have. I didn't realize what I said was there's too many talk shows on this show. That's the problem.

They're not asking me. Like, but now that, that was my opinion. There's too many talk shows. We need more sketches. Like, you're not in control the fucking show, boy. Here's the thing. That's also the perfect setup for Gerald. you've got a guest on a show they can't leave plus there's tons of jokes for that you know

gerald go listen you've been in a lot of movies what we're going to do is what i call a switch him up i'm going to play your part in the movie and you're going to play another part that doesn't matter and just you know like that like little things like that to make them like take over their personality if you will and then make fun of them that way you know with the jim carrie episode you had and you i don't know what the dress was how much stuff you had a dress but you This is your last show, and they have you just as non-speaking in one of the Roxbury sketches. How hard was that? That was a low night.

I had address, I had probably four pieces in. That's what I'm saying. I mean, that happens. I mean, sometimes you would see even like a Mike Myers or a Carvey that wasn't in much, and they were heavy a dress, and you just never know. How hard was that? It was terrible. Yeah.

I mean, Brewer wasn't in the first show, by the way, other than, I think the monologue, he said, high and he was an extra i think in the first sketch um the cold open no one's looking out here's the thing uh they cut gerald at the trading post uh jim carey plays a native american which now you couldn't do but then he played he had this indian character he used to do so he's at a trading post and gerald is working at the trading post so now we're time jumping with the character as well i was pretty sure it was going to make it it was the they shot it under the bleachers so it didn't get a good shot for the audience. And I know that Jimmy Miller told me later that summer, he said, you know what? We were debating whether or not to do that sketch. We should have done

that sketch. Because I don't know what they did instead of it, but it didn't work as well. They don't do that positioning very much anymore under the bleachers. Because I was at shows when they would do that. And now it's like almost everything. They were doing cold opens when you were there that weren't on home base. And like now it's like forget about it. I mean, everything, it seems like, they do the home base. But to have that when the audience can't see you is, um, it's tough. It adds a, yeah, it makes it more difficult for sure. I know Norm Hiscock wrote the Turkey and High C for Danny Iello. Did you? That was, that was, that was, McKay wrote that. I was going to ask, did you have? They may have written together, but anyway, yeah.

Did you have anything to do with it just because your father had turkey coops, right? I mean, Oh, no, no, nothing to do with it. Oh, that had nothing to do with it. That was a, made me Kay laugh. Give me a. turkey synoge in a high sea. It didn't do all that sketch. I remember looking at years later and it did not do well. I mean, people still really like it. So you have two buddies that, I mean, they know you can do this. Are they helping you as much as you think that they can, McKay and Giannis? Well, everyone's surviving. Yeah. So you've got to pick the boat that's going to get in the water, you know? So you've got to go to the strongest pack mule. So that's all. I would still get plenty of chance.

chances at the table read. Some guys wouldn't get, you know, one or two sketches to read at the table. Brewer was having a tough season until Stephen Gordon got him peshy and then that's what got him solidified. Yeah. How hard was that between the changes between dressing live? Well, it can be very disappointing, right? You're just, you're, you know, you're subject to someone's whim of whether or not you're going to have a show. I think there's one other show where I was not on it at all. I forget what it was. I have it here. Chevy. Chase, you were in the cold open, but I don't think you were in much. You were in the OJ that Robert Smigel penned. I did it. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they pushed, I want to say,

for that very first show, Will Ferrell was pushed harder in that very first show than I've seen probably anybody. Oh, wow. Okay. And like, in terms of what he got and stuff. I mean, you can tell like this guy's got the shit and he's got a big bat. Yeah. He's good. At the same time, I mean, you got, I mean, I don't know. I feel like your hits, there's, again, nobody that has gone through the show with one season that has had as many hits and much recurrent as you. What was it like going on all the other late night shows? Because you're such a pro Conan, Jimmy Kimmel, Lano, Ferguson. Like, what are your favorite shows to go on and what stands out any specifics highlights? I guess Conan, because Andy's a friend. Oh, you know, they're Chicago guy. Yeah.

And then, you know, Conan kind of became a friend too. But again, like that, I wasn't thirsty enough to really to try to get on those as much as I could, which looking back, you really should have. You design a career that makes you a welcome guest all the time. When you think about Bill Burr on Conan, it's just the greatest, right? Find yourself to be in a position where you are recurring on all of those talk shows. Like, we love having this guy on because great stuff happens when this guy's on. I never looked at that paradigm enough to understand that's what you should be doing. Yeah, you should write a book just based on all your wisdom and everything.

Is your dream still to do the Dick Gibson show? the Stanley Lincoln book. That's such a big book. I don't know who would adapt it or how you would. And I think that would not be a commercial success. You never know, but that was still, is that still like something that you think about sometimes? I don't.

I think about possibly writing a Champ Kind movie or a Gerald movie. Oh my gosh, the Gerald thing. What was it like working with David Lynch? Was he familiar with your work and how? Oh, my God. That was a dream. I don't know. I must have come up.

across his radar. The audition was, you got interviewed by casting directors, no sides. You're not doing an audition. And it's called Zona Rosa or something like that, something, I forget the name was a code. And then a couple of days later, like, oh, you're in the new David Lynch project. This was the Twin Peaks reboot, right, for Showtime? Yes. And then the night before, you're given your sides, which are your pieces you're going to be performing. And there are two Fusco brothers, Fusco 1 and Fusco 2, and you don't know which one you are. So you learn all the lines. Then you get to set, and there's three Fusco brothers.

You're like, what the heck? So it's me, Eric Edelstein, and Larry Clark, and we just hung out in one of the trailers together. And we're all Irish, and we just had the, we hung out for at least an hour and a half. Then we go to set right at lunch. And then the Lynch goes, okay, okay, okay, Fusco's great, great, great. Listen, okay, Fusco one, Fusco two, and you're Fusco three to Eric. He goes, give me that little laugh you do. And he goes, that's it, that's it.

Okay, great. You guys figure out who's Fusco one and two. And so it didn't matter. The number of lines was pretty much the same. So I said, I'm the oldest. I'll just be Fusco one. And so, yeah, that was delightful. And I met two of my favorite people in Hollywood that day.

Speaking of Irish, why do you think, Lauren, I mean, out of everybody that he hired for the new cast and still to this day, Farrell, Kekner, Walls, Hammond, And then you have Quinn, McKay, Higgins. What do you think it is with the Irish? I could keep going, McKinnon. I mean, some English as well, but what do you think that the deal is, if any? I don't know. I never thought about that.

I guess I would offer that, you know, obviously the Irish are known for their humor. And like you said earlier, the dark humor. Norm MacDonald, I could keep going. I could keep going with the hires. And it's all dark humor too, isn't it? Yes. Well, what are the circumstances that you taught slash from Guns and Roses how to play checkers? we were we we our kids went to the same school and so he and i met and kind of hit it off we went to

an auction for the school they have a fundraiser for themselves and we were sitting at a table together we decided to bid on this vacation package and eight bedroom villa in um port of ire to mexico and so he actually i got out because we got too high and he successfully bid on it and then we left the school the next year because i had kids more kids and i said well i can't do this ridiculousness anymore. So it was a year and a half later or something like that. He calls me one May and goes, we had to use that villa by next June. We lose it. I'm like, what? That's yours. I thought, is he trying to get me to come up? No, but anyway, so we went down there. I took all my five kids and a nanny, of course, because we're from Los Angeles. We had a great

time for a week, and I'm ziplining behind slash in the jungles of Mexico. And then one day it was raining. And so we had nothing to do. And he and I are hanging out in the living room, he'd never played checkers. He's kind of busy doing other stuff. I have to ask, is he, to you, is he Sol or is he Slash? Oh, Slash. Okay, so he's Slash. Because some people separate that when they're just, you know, with their families and stuff. So he's, yeah, he's still Slash. So you teach him how to play checkers. Did you win? I'm guessing if he's never played before, you kicked. Yes, I won 10 time. Oh, man, I want to see you an Axel. That's the next game, you an Axel. We'll absolutely see. Before,

I want to talk about your stand-up, you're transitioning into stand-up. The SNL after parties, I've been to a few. They're very strange. In the beginning, the first couple, there weren't a lot of celebrities. I mean, I was sitting at a table

and I was a nobody, which tells you, I didn't know that that was like, doesn't happen. By the end of the year, that wasn't happening. But what stands out about those things? And everybody, when I observed,

for the most part, was staying at their own tables with their own people, and there wasn't a lot of, socialization, maybe at like 3 a.m., but not for the first, like, hour and a half, I would say. I was drinking heavily then. And so I would always be the last person to leave. At those parties till 4 a.m. Do you remember the one with, it was so surreal. My first time ever it was when David Schwimmer hosted and Hugh Fink wrote that TV theme song. So at a booth,

this is Columbus on the West Side. I don't think it exists anymore, but it was like at a booth, Barry Williams, Gary Coleman, and Jimmy J.J. Walker. And then a lot of, I think, Jennifer Aniston and Courtney Cox and the Friends were there with Swimmer. I don't think the other two, Perry wasn't there. I don't think, and I don't think LeBalt Blanc was there. That's my memory. What stands out about those at all, if anything, other than I know you said you were drinking, maybe a little too much. Was Tupac the musical guest? That was Tom Arnold. And yes, that was Tom Arnold. I remember that way, I was at that one, too, yeah. What's it, The Cure?

The Cure was Christine Bernanski, I believe. That was second to last show, I think. I don't know. To me, you know, what you do is you go, I would go check in with McKay and Nancy. I can't remember if we always got a table together because you've got Steve. Now, here you've got the most talented guy in the room who's not on the show, Steve Carell and Nancy. And then there's McKay. And then, you know, we had our group of people, right?

Like Norm Hiscock was our group. And I mean, and I think Will would always have his own table, but, you know, we probably all wind up cross-referencing table. But you usually had a guest. You had someone from out of town visiting. That's what I meant. Corell would be rehearsing Saturday for Carvey, which they taped Sunday. And then he would get to SNL to see his wife. And it was one of those things like, I can't believe he's not on the show.

It worked out well for, I think, everyone. But those parties also politically, I mean, Daryl Hammond eventually stopped going, Norm stopped going. have to go to those things, I guess, probably early on. Why did they stop? Well, if I was, I don't know, if I was on the show, to me, that's a party. It's fun. Yeah. I don't know what was political about it.

Well, I think to be seen and just the whole, like some people, I mean, I know Fallon with got advice from Marcy Klein, go to Lauren and thank him for every show or something like that. I don't know. Oh, interesting. Yeah, to me, I was just let down. I mean, because, you know, you're to let it all out because, you know, you're, you're, to let it all out because you've had this pressure cooker all week long, right? So you need a release. That's

what it was for me. And then you find out you have to pay for your drinks and your food. Everyone thinks that SNL party you go there. It's the most glamorous thing is an $8 rolling rock back then or Amstells or whatever. I think you're making $6,000 a week, which I mean compared to sitcoms or anything else, it's a huge pay cut for people don't think about that sometimes. I want to talk about your stand-up. How long did it take you going on the road and doing stand-up until you found your voice you think is a stand-up? The hell you really felt like you got it. Listen, I don't know if I have. I guess my voice now is I'm a dad. That's just the real spirit of instance of life. I'm a dad and I have a, like, can you believe all this

stuff we have to go through when you're, and the impossibility of someone learning to use a plunger? Like, please, it's the easiest tool on the planet. All you got to act like you're churning butter. But anyway, you know, when I started, I did a bunch of characters. I saw you at Largo do one of the, like, one of your characters like a big, like, I don't know, big arm. I forget what it was, but it was really funny. Was it? Did I put on a fat suit? I think you might have. It was, it was a long time ago, but I thought it was really funny getting to see you do it Largo. Yeah, I did. I would, on the road, I would do five characters and then string together reasons to put these characters on stage.

it was kind of like people like, what is going on here? Because that's not traditional stand-up. You know, there's more than one time I'd see people kind of not stick around because it's too hard to process. Like, this isn't stand-up. Like, he's changing into sketch characters. And then you realize, oh, you don't have to, you don't have to change. You can just do the character without the costume.

So anyway, in the early years, I didn't go out that. I would go up like 12 times a year out on the road. And then I would, I forget what else I had going on in life. You know, you just have. had to have to give the attention to whatever is happening in your life at that time. So I remember not being able to devote as much time to stand up as I wanted to just because I was always working, which is great too. I mean, it's unbelievable how many credit, like you don't have to audition anymore, do you? Oh, yeah. Seriously, I know that you got the one, you've definitely gotten jobs

where you did it. I know Anchorman, you had to, but you've definitely gotten a decent amount where you did not have to, but they still, you're still doing that, okay? Correct. There was a period of time where, you know, your, your boat's on the rise and they just say, come doc over here. I'm all about metaphors, apparently. I feel like they know what they're getting with Keckner, and it's so funny that they still.

Yeah, yeah. You're not surprised. There's a great movie out right now on streaming. Is it on Apple yet, Ganymead? Ganymead, 1N, G-G-A-N-E-Y-M-D-E-E-G-E-E-E-E-M-E-E. It is a queer southern gothic coming of age, coming of age horror film. How about that for a genre bender? But it's really good, and I'm good in it.

Thank you. I play a really nasty preacher. So he was on a pay service, but it might be coming to Apple TV this month. It's good. So I've been able to do a couple more dramas these days. David Keckner.com, they have that your tour dates through December. You are everywhere all over the place on tour. And sometimes you're doing stand-up.

Sometimes you're doing the office. trivia, obviously, you know, you're cemented forever. I mean, the younger people, they all know the office. I mean, it is so hard for something that's been so long ago for younger people to really. So, I mean, your audiences must be very vast, different ages and stuff that are there. Yeah, depending on the show, the night, all that stuff. Obviously, you're going to have younger people to come out to the office trivia show. And a lot of times they'll stay for the show later that night. So it's a good, good crossbreed that helps promote the show one way or the other. So, yeah, we just added that two years ago. Rob, Rob Mayer, who's been touring with me for eight years,

came up with the idea because, like, just the thirst for the office was just so great. He goes, why don't we do a trivia show? So he came up with three rounds of trivia. And during that, I just would think of, based on questions, I would come up with my stuff. When we first were putting it together. So now it's all cemented where I have certain stories I tell or we tell little anecdotes about the office or this or that. So it's a real hybrid show of stand-up storytelling and office trivia. I say it's the greatest trivia show in the country because at the end of the show, people get to come up and act out two scenes from the office to determine the winner. Also, I do a Q&A, and it's the only show I do a meet and greet for. It's worked out.

That's amazing. I really want to see you perform live. It's always fun at SNL to see your sketches. And you were within the Chicago world and stuff, like such a buzz that, I mean, how good you were. even then. I mean, you did nine years in Chicago and just how everything worked out is just amazing from when you were 13 and said, I'm going to be on this show. And then, I mean, you're still doing this working on all the time. Longevity is the name of the game and you've done it. So. Well, that's the truth, right? I do worry about what happens to future generations of actors because I think in five years it's all over because of AI. It's very strange. I mean, it's, it's everything that's going. I don't know what's going to happen. But I can't thank you enough

for doing this. How did this go? I know you do a, you do some of these. I just, I, I didn't want to try to talk about the same stuff you normally talk about, maybe sometimes. Yeah, this is great. Really? Okay. Your knowledge is so deep and vast and so specific. Plus, you're, you're, you're, you, I know you've done your research just to walk down memory relating and think about what happened one way or the other, or how you're feeling at the time. I just remember it being chaos, you know. So no, this was, this was fun. This was great. Thank you. I've always been such an admirer. So thanks for doing this. I really, really appreciate it. Thanks for listening. Please subscribe so you never miss an episode. On Apple Podcasts,

please rate it and leave a review. Be sure to go to late-nighter.com for all your late-night TV news, and you can find my podcast at late-nighter.com forward slash podcasts. Have a wonderful week, and I'll see you next Tuesday. The I'm going to be. I'm going to be. It's. We're going to be.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.