Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Fred Wolf

Episode Date: December 10, 2024

Fred Wolf joins Mark to discuss writing for Saturday Night Live, his early days writing for The Pat Sajak Show, having 3 sketches in Rolling Stone’s 50 Greatest SNL Sketches of All Time, & working with Norm Macdonald.

Hi, I am Mark Malkoff, and welcome to Inside Late Night, presented by late-nighter.com. Today's guest wrote some of my favorite Saturday Night Live sketches of all time, and that is writer-comedian Fred Wolf. We Talk SNL, his prior work doing stand-up and writing on the Pat Seajack show. Talking to Fred was a big thrill for me. Now it's time to go inside late night. Fred Wolf, thanks for talking with us. This is so fun. This is great. And Mark, thanks for being so patient with a...

Oh, this is amazing. We talked on the phone the other day. I mean, you wrote so many of my favorite Saturday Night Live sketches. And then today, I was just kind of going back to your early days of stand-up. Now, you grew up in New York City, correct? I grew up in New York City, yes. I grew up there and then moved to Pittsburgh single mother, four boys. And we were kind of on the move all the time. So there was a lot of a lot of Pack and Suitcase. is at midnight, getting on a bus and getting off a bus and blah, blah, blah. How old are you when you're going to see Marks Brothers movies? You're getting on a bus to go into Pittsburgh. Are you going by yourself? And how old are you? What a cool question.

Because when my parents were still together, I was in first grade in New Jersey. And I remember I watched an Abbott and Costello movie called Hit the Ice. And first grade, I didn't know much of anything. I still don't know computers, obviously. But I saw this movie and it was these two guys. Abbott and Costello, and they were trying to get into some ski chalet or something like that. And Costello went around to the back, went into the ski chalet, opened the door, then came back out around, and said to Abbott, he goes, it's good, we can go in now.

He'd open the door. And I remember so clearly that I go, that is so funny, he could have opened the door inside. He was inside the ski chalet. He could have just opened the door and said, hi, but he came out around. And from that second on, I just was obsessed with comedy. And I wanted to do some sort of Abbottin-Costell, like a team comedy thing from first grade on, obsessed with doing it. And then I will say, I was lucky enough to do Tommy Boy and Black Sheep, which was sort of a comedy team. Oh, you've done so many movies.

So you're going to see Mark's brother movies. And then you're on a family vacation. Are you in Seattle maybe? And then your mom is just reading the paper and see there's an opening for a job in Montana. Is that how you get to Montana? Well, that's what a good question. Man, that's so great because that is how it happened, actually. They went on vacation. My parents, they got back together for about a year. And then they were on vacation. They saw an opening for a one-room schoolhouse in a town called Saltiz, Montana, 100 people. And my mother applied for the job that day, got the job. And then we eventually moved out there to Saltis and built a log cabinet in the middle of nowhere, me and my four brothers. And yeah, I was like 18, 19, years old. And actually, I'm going to tell you, so I was 1819. I grew up in New York City. So I didn't know, I didn't know how to change a tire. We didn't own a car in New York City.

And I was a logger. I was worked on the oil rigs. I drove a tow truck all in Montana. And the entire time I was there, I said, I'm saving up to go to Hollywood to do more of this comedy thing. And I went to the oil rigs in North Dakota, broke this finger right here. And in 45 minutes, broke my thumb. And they gave me work in his compensation, which I had never heard. heard of before. I don't have to work and I get money. And I go, what? And I can go anywhere I want. And I go, yes, so I moved to Hollywood and from that on, just live there in Hollywood and used that to oil rig money for like the first 10 weeks, got a job at a T-shirt shop. And then started doing comedy and I just wanted to keep, I wanted to do the comedy team thing. I wanted to write those

movies. Comedy teams were marked by something like that. It's just, that's the only one. Do you think you would have stayed at the University of Montana if your professor was nicer to you and didn't condescend? Because, you know, that was the thing. You're working at a radio station. You're the only one of the class that's actually, you're in Livingston, working at an actual radio station. It's a big deal. And you have this professor that is just super condescending. And that was pretty much the catalyst where you're like, I'm out of here, right? Mark, you're amazing. You're amazing that you research this stuff that you know. this stuff, like you're spring insomnia that you, that's the best. You're the best, for real. I break back at you. You should tell your viewers that I couldn't get out of the

phone with you. I just love talking to you. That's the story that no one, a few people know, which is, yeah, I went to three colleges. I went to Penn State. My father stole my Pennsylvania higher education assistance agency money, $2,000. Stole it because you have the same name. I had to drop out. Went to MSU and U of M. I got a job at a radio station as did DJ just because I wanted to be in show business. And I was the only one in the whole radio and TV program that did that. But then they wanted a final project for one of the radio and TV classes, MSU or U of M. I always forget which one, because I worked the station the whole time. I turned it in and this professor said, look at the clock. And I go, yeah, and he goes, what does it say?

I go, 12 o'clock, 12 noon when this was due. And he goes, no, it's two minutes after 12 o'clock. So I'm going to dock you two letter grades for turning in this project late. You're at a scene no matter what? Because when you work at a professional radio station, that's how it works. You've got to be on time. And I go, well, I am working on a professional organization. And he goes, well, you have a C in the class. So that I dropped out later that day. I said, oh, man, I got to go to do it for real because this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Years later, I was at Silent Live. And the host was, who's the host? Bill Pullman. Bill Pullman. And man, you're amazing. Bill Pullman was a host, and I was just talking to him. I had some sketched

on. We were just talking. He's such a nice guy. And then I say, what did you do? You know, we're just killing time. And he goes, ah, we got, the actor, blah, blah. I used to be a professor. And I go, where are you a professor? And he said, either MSU or you event, one of those two. I forget which one it was because I went to both.

And I go, I went there too. And then he said, I was there these two years. He named the years that I was there. And I go, I was there. And then he goes, I was such an asshole. I was so angry. I was angry at the world because I wanted to be an actor and I was there teaching instead of doing it.

So I left and I went and did it. And here I am at starting a life. I go, that's what I, I thought that, that, that I told the story about what I just said. He goes, that was me. That would have been me. I did that all the time. I did that stuff all the time. It was probably him that doc made the two letter grades that gave me the C that made me the

drop out. It worked out. Yeah. It worked out for both of you. So you get out to L.A. And your dream is to do, you know, stand up. You also have in your head you'd want to be a radio DJ. You don't know any better.

Instead of, you know, doing open mics, you actually audition. You just go without. really stand-up experience. You go to the Comedy Store did audition to be a regular. Is that your first time on stage? Yeah, first time on at the Comedy Store, I didn't know any better. So I said Missy Shore was the owner. And I showcased for her. And I did pretty well. I thought he did pretty good. But when it came off stage, one of her people came up to me and said, she doesn't want you as a comic, but she said you should be a writer for Michael Keaton. And Michael Keating, And this is before he was huge.

He hadn't done, you know, the Ron Howard movie yet. And I wanted to write for him. He's hilarious. He was a great stand of community. So that was my, you know, that was nice. And then she said that. And then I worked the door. She gave me a job at the door.

I worked three nights. She asked me to cut my hair. It was longer than this even. And I said, oh, really? Do I have to cut my hair? And she goes, yeah. And I go, oh, I can't. And so I was fired.

So you ordered a door guy. I had no idea. I mean, that's a pretty legendary. The Door people that have been there. You're doing stand-up. You're all over the place. And then you got a writing break. And this was in March of 1988 when your friend Jeff Joseph was one of the host over at the late show with Fox because Joan Rivers had been pushed out and they had substitute host.

And then this was for about a month or so, a little bit more than a month. It would alternate between your friend Jeff Joseph and John Mulrooney. And this is hard to believe, but they only would have. I had her one writer, and you were the one. That's so funny. First of all, it was a great call from Jeff, Joseph. I was blown away that he called because, yeah, he got one writer, so he asked for me, and then John Maroney, Hal Spear, was his writer I remember, and yeah, alternated.

So for whatever reason, they did this alternate. I don't know if they were giving them both, like, screen tests, so to speak or something, but then they kind of let both of them go, and they hired full-time Iraq. Schaefer, and they rehired me to write for Ross Schaefer late show. Ross was such a great guy, and he had great, great crew, great writers. But I wanted to write on Saturday Live. I really wanted to go off and do that. So I left that show. And then, yeah, it took me a while again on Saturday Live and wished I hadn't left that show. Can I tell you a really quick story about the comedy store? Yeah, I know. I love that. That would be great. Let's do it. I wanted to do the stand-up.

I wanted to be around comedians and I wanted to write comedy and try to. out on the stage and stuff. But I really wanted to be more of a writer. And so I would go on stage and try out the new stuff. And that was what was really fun for me. And doing a full tilt act, I wasn't so I wasn't that great. I wasn't a fantastic performer, but I love writing it. And it led to so many things. It led to meeting Jeff Joseph. And it was really nice that he was able to sort of see what I wrote and say, oh, I think I can on the show, he might help. And he was such a good guy but he was my first real break really and we weren't best friends we were friends through stand of comedy comedy got me everything i've gotten standup comedy did every little like literally every

show i've gotten on everything was all about stander comedy and so just the real quick story is that i try to get along with people and i think i kind of have a pretty good idea of who's going to do well in comedy and um i went to montana with my daughter during covid just to hang out with her well she She could go to high school there because it was actually open there. And I went by the local comedy club that's in Missoula, Montana. I look crazy. I get the hair and the way I dress or whatever. I know.

It's California. Come on. Right. Okay, yeah. So I was up in Montana, though, so they go home to California. I used to write that in the car. They didn't know I had a long connection with Montana. Go back to California, seriously, because I had placed on the car.

So I go to this club. This was a couple years ago. And I say, hey, is there like an open mic or something? I just want to do some comedy. And my nephew was on a bus on the way down. He wanted to come see if I was going to go on stage. And those, the comedians were so rude to me. They were going, no, no, no, no.

This is for professional comedians. Why don't you beat it? Saying words, like, beat it. And I go, is there someone here that books the club? Because I didn't want to say, oh, I've been doing comedy for 20 years or. And the people there said, why don't you leave? This is not an open mic night. And no, you don't just wandering in off the street and do comedy here.

And I couldn't bring myself to say, no, I've been doing it for many, many years. I've been on Saturday Live. I've been a performer. I couldn't bring myself to say that. And they kept blow me off. And so I called my nephew and say, hey, let's just ditch this place. And he goes, I'm almost there.

I'm on the bus. I can't hold you down. Oh, for God's sake. So he comes in and we're sitting there and we're just going to watch the show. And this lady comes walking into me. He says, I heard you're a comedy, right? And you do comedy? And I go, yeah, for a while.

I was thinking about going on tonight. Why? And she goes, we had three acts cancel. And I go, oh, and she goes, can you do 15 minutes? And I go, oh, yeah, yeah, I can. Easy. and she goes, what's your name? I said my name, Fred Wolfen, and she looked it up, and three minutes later, she said back

to the table going, oh my God, oh my God, I went on stage, and this was in front of five people that had blown me off so hard, I'd never blown off so bad, I went on stage, and I pulled out every, every, every, every, I don't know what I could say here, but you can say whatever you want. Okay, every bit I had that just connected. And I had just gone to a dentist that day, so I did Dennis jokes, you know how good they work when you were able to tie it in. Look, like, dude, the top, blah, blah, blah.

And I blew the fucking roof off. And the lady who booked the show, she went on stage. And as I'm going off stage, the audience getting a standing ovation and audience members are hugging me. I mean, I killed. She goes, Fred, Fred, wait, don't leave. Ralph, stand up. Ralphie, stand up, stand up. And a guy stood up in the audience that was dressed as Joe Dirt.

He didn't know I was there. I had written Joe Dirt was David Spade. Of course. And he dressed as Joe Dirt. And she's going, he walks around like that. Joe Dirt, we're fans of yours. Like, it was an annihilation of a. And one of the comedians that was so rude to me, came out and hugged me and in my ear said,

I am so sorry. I'm so sorry. So I said, hey, all you comedians, let's go outside. Let's go outside and talk. And so we went outside. And I go, first of all, thank you for saying, yeah, I killed. You're right. You guys didn't do that great to tell you the truth. Okay. It was easy to follow you. I just want to tell you, if you're in L.A. acting the way you acted to me, you're not going to make it in this business because you were rude to me. And if I had just been starting out comedy, I would have quit. You hurt my feelings, the stuff you were saying to me. And I would have quit. I never would have done it. And you can't be that way. And they all were really nice people. They all said, okay, we get it. We get it. And to me, that was a giant lesson. If I don't learn that,

they're just screwed because you could be funny, but you also got to be nice and you got to just get along people. And I got so upset that they were so rude and I didn't understand it. And I'm so lucky that I had a other way to go, the writing and so forth. Because I guess I don't present well. Let's put it that way. I love that story that you were so humble that you didn't even say anything. And then you did help them. I mean, it is one of those things. I will say maybe 20 years ago, 30 years ago, people, you know, definitely in comedy clubs, it was known for certain people. I'm not going to say who that were not maybe the friendliest. But if you want to work in the business and stuff, it's just not the way to go. I mean, first of all, you had the talent,

you kept the relationships and you're a nice guy. But it's one of those things. where it's like you were the one that helped try to get David Spade and Rob Schneider on that short-lived show where you were a head writer before SNL and you know and then Schneider's like Fred Wolf why don't we give him a let me see what I can do to get him a tryout so I mean it's really just you know it's a cycle it really is yeah and I met all those guys when they were like you know smaller performers I was a small you know we weren't getting any kind of TV stuff I've talked about this in the past I had five friends who I knew and told them that they were all going to be huge stars when we were just starting out.

And that list is pretty accurate, you know. And so when I was working at that show you were mentioning, it was called Too Hip for TV. And NBC, Brandon Tardicoff came into my office. He said, I heard you're a stand-up comedian. We need a host for the show. Do you know stand-up comedians that might be good hosts? And so I wrote out five names of who they should see. But I went over the list thinking, okay, are these people nice?

Are they, can I get along with their peers? And then I have to say, I gave them the list of the five names. They hired one of them to become the host, Colin Quinn, one of the five names. And the other four names were unknown at the time, but it was David Spade, Rob Schneider, Adam Sandler, and George Clooney. And they all went on to do really well. You probably heard of some of them, right? That's incredible. I mean, the fact that you knew that right away before anybody.

I'm not joking. I knew how much better than me they were. How did you know Clooney at the time? I mean, I know he was doing sitcom work and he was, you know, really funny. I would talk to people that worked with him a prankster and just, you know, charming for sure. Yeah, very charming. He idolized me. Of course.

No, we played basketball every day. There was a comedian's game and we played during the 80s outdoor court. And he's a great player. I'm a little bit better. You do have some hide on him. So how do you get to the Pat Sejack show in 1989? And I know that you, I don't think people know this or not, but you were doing kind of like the Brian McCann, Brian, Brian Stack characters. I mean, you were doing the bitter Robin, you're doing the one joke comedian.

How did that all come together when you were over at Seajack? I love your questions, Mark. I really love your questions. I applied that to Pat Sejic show, and it felt like a real show with CBS, and it was going to go against, you know, Johnny Carson and that whole thing. And I really wanted that job, but they didn't hire me. They hired eight writers, I think it was. And they didn't hire me.

And so I said, well, that's the way it goes, I guess. But then all of a sudden I got a call, and one of the eight people that they were going to hire didn't want that salary. I couldn't care less what the salary was. I'd do it for minimum wage, but nothing against him. He's doing fine now. I'd tell you who it was, but he's doing great. He's still working.

But I went in there about four days after. after they had started doing pre-production to do the past 80s show. So when they called and said, hey, you have the show if you want it. I go, okay, can I come down right now and sign the paperwork or whatever? And they go, well, it's 7 o'clock at night. Just come in tomorrow. And I go, oh, yeah, I can come in tomorrow, but maybe I'll come down tonight. You know, just sign it, you know, kind of.

And the guy, the business affair, the guy says, all right, I'll wait here for you. And I go, okay, great, because I wanted to get that signature on that thing. So I went out to my car and I had the push start. everywhere went, you know. So this car, I pushed started and I drove down to CBS, went up to his office, I signed the paperwork. And I actually said to him, by the way, I said, when I come and work as a writer, you know, a professional writer, I'll dress better than I am right now. Don't worry. And he was like, I don't know what. So anyway, I signed his stuff. And then I leave his office and all the lights of CBS are dark, except for his, his office lights still on. I go down to the parking lot and my car won't start. And here I'm trying to play big man. I'm going to dress well. it wouldn't start and I'm running in the parking lot of CBS on Fairfax, whatever is, you know, down in Melrose and 3rd. And I'm running and jumping in the car to try to jumpstart it because it's a radiance car and it won't start.

And finally, the light in his office goes out. And I go, oh, he's coming down right now. Damn it, I walked away, left my car there and just walk home. Because I didn't want to see me push down like going trash. So then I got there, just to finish it up, I go in the next day and start working. and they say, what's our first pick going to be? And I said something like, well, what about Sejac drives up on a limousine? And it's like a really shi limousine.

And they go, yeah, it sounds good. Where do we get the shitty limousine? And I go, I know where there's a car. So we ended up using my car, the one in the parking lot. Because we used it as a limousine. It's the first bit of the whole show. My radiance car. That's the story.

That's the path. What was your experience? I interviewed him once in person. It was really, really nice. But what was your experience on the Seijack show and then doing on camera, playing some characters? That guy's so nice, so dang nice. The head writer was Greg Fields, and he's passed. Former Johnny Carson writer.

He was, yes, he, yes. And Kevin Mahaloan also was a former Johnny Carson writer on the show, Seijack show. And I allies Carson, too, which I, yeah, you're the Carson, man. So you know what it's like, that guy was amazing. So anyway, somehow really he saw me doing stand-up or whatever. He said, yeah, you should do little bits on the show here. So I ended up doing like about 100 bits. And the Robin was one of my favorites.

It was Robin that was really angry that he wasn't in the Batman movies. And so it was a bit of Robin, yeah. And I did the one joke comedian on there. Yeah, stuff like that. And it was really fun. And Seajak was great. They got some amazing guess. I mean, you know, Jack Parr, I remember Mickey Mantle.

A lot of icons, would you go back? Did you work with any of them? Or could you go back and say hi to any of them? Or was that frowned upon? Yes. I would always pick out the one I had to say. Like Mickey Mantle, I had his autograph, three autographs, he played for the Yankees where I grew up, blah, blah, blah. And so I'd have to ask him ahead of time, yes, you can go back there.

And I did meet Jack Parr. It's funny, the two names you mentioned. And there's a couple others where I just had to go back and meet him, shake their hands and just say hi. And some of them would talk. And I'd leave them along by and large. But, yeah, we couldn't just wander up and start talking to the guests, but I wanted to. Did you freelance a joke or two for Johnny Carson's Tonight Show or more? I sent jokes in and they used some of them, but then also when Joan Rivers hosted, she would buy $10.

She'd buy the jokes and she bought five jokes from me, I think, but she paid $10 and Phyllis Diller paid $3 per joke. And so one time I sent them to both thinking one will buy it and they both bought the joke. What do you do? I didn't know what to do. I had no idea. I didn't tell either one. I didn't know what to do because it was 13. and I needed the money. But I got a check for 10 and checked for three. Put the check for three

on my wall to my apartment. And about two months later, had to cash it. I needed the cash. Not joking. It's amazing. You're writing for all these icons. Now, in the 80s when you had a day job, Kenan Ivory Wayans was doing stand-up. He went on Carson. I'm trying to remember if it was 84 or something like that. It was a huge deal when he went on Carson and he did well. Now, you encountered him And you, but was it both of you were like, you look familiar, but I can't place it? It was so unbelievable to me. When I went to IS 70 in New York City, it was my junior high, and I was friends with, best friends with a guy named Ronald Fort, and Ronald was divine, just amazing, just incredible.

It's just an amazing, amazing guy. And so my mother had to move, and the dead of night, we had to get out in New York City. And I never saw any of my friends in New York City again, really, by and large. So when I went to Hollywood, I worked at a T-shirt shop, and I was going out with this girl. And this tall, very good-looking guy came in to ask her out. He was very good-looking, and I was really worried. And she said to him, it was Keenan Waynes, you know. But he wasn't doing, he had just moved to L.A.

And my girlfriend at the time said, no, I have a boyfriend. And he goes, who's your boyfriend? She pointed to me to because I was working there, too. And he looks over to me, goes, that's your boyfriend? Yeah, okay. I could probably steal you away from that thing. No, but he just said, you look familiar to me. I said, yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

You do two. Where do you live? And he said, Sycamore. And I go, I do too. I live in Sycamore. You go, 17, 54. So we thought, but no, that's not it, though, we both said. And I go, what are you doing out here?

And I go, I'm trying to do standard comedy or whatever. And he goes, so am I. I just moved here from New York City. And I go, but I haven't seen any stamps. I don't know. And then he said, well, you said, from New York City, where did you go to high school? And I said, no, it wasn't there. He goes, where'd you go to junior high?

And I go, I went to IS70. He goes, I did two. Oh my God, you're Fred Wolf. You were friends with Ronald Fort. How are you friends with Ronald Fort? He wanted to be friends with Ronald Fort. Ronald was the coolest, toughest kid in the entire junior high, and none of them could ever hang out with him.

And somehow Ronald hung out with me. I have no idea why. And because of him, I was like King of the School. I could walk down the hallway. And people almost parted when I walked down there because he was a fighter. and I was a loser. I was the guy who got punched.

He would be the guy who could punch people. And Tina Wayne's all those years later saying, how were you friends with Ronald Ford? Somehow, I've been friends with some of the most amazing people. I don't know what happens or what it is, but I swear to you, there was a story to every one of them. I told you those five names, they were my friends that went on to be big. And we still talk to this day.

I got so lucky. I don't know. You had the talent, though, to back it up. I mean, you need the talent. You had it. But doing all these gigs, I know that SNL was in your head. But for example, when you're doing evening at the improv and Dr. Joyce Brothers is the host. And you're just like, okay, this is where I am right now. First of all, how was Dr. Joyce Brothers as an emce? And when you're doing things like that, does it seem like nothing? Like, I'm just kind of like stuck here. Or in your head was like, you still are grandiose dreams of SNL. I think the oil rigs was a really tough job. I was never unhappy doing any of those shows. I just knew I wasn't that good. I wasn't going to go really far.

You were getting on TV all the time. Fred Travelina, you were doing comic strip live, Caroline's comedy. So obviously you were doing well enough with the bookers. I mean, maybe you're being modest, but that they were putting you on. Thank you for saying that. That's really nice. When I met my wife, my girlfriend first, my girlfriend first, I kind of felt like, oh, I could kind of stop performing out.

I've landed something that's amazing here. And I kind of segued out of it, but when I got to start out live, I was really happy to be there. And Lauren actually offered to make me a feature player, it's called, where you can go on camera and do some stuff. And I love doing it, but I started turning down performing, but I don't know. I just never felt like I was that good, not good looking, not, I talk too fast. I don't know.

I live in my head. I don't know how to do this computer stuff, but I can write a joke, I think, and I love doing that. But that's nice if you said. I did do a lot. I actually had been on TV a fair amount. You need improvs, all that kind of stuff, but my heart's in writing. It really is. One of my friends, Dan Pastorneck, told me that his favorite routine of yours is the long shaggy dog story, the acne.

I don't know if you remember that routine. I do, yeah. He asked if you would do it, but I don't know if you do requests. Of course, I didn't know. It's so nice, of course. And Dan's were very nice guy, by the way. It was about, it was a true thing. Just when I was younger, I had acne.

A lot of kids do. I had it on my face. And I was talking about how I would get up in the morning before school in New York City. And I would check and see how I looked. And I see acne. One day I checked, I had acne. I'm just like, I hated myself and I hated the world. And I didn't want to be seen by anybody.

And I'm walking down the street, literally feeling so sorry for myself because I had acne. you know and um suddenly i see this guy being pushed towards me he's in a wheelchair and he's missing his arms and his legs and uh you know i'm just i'm just saying to myself like i can't handle this i i'm worried about acting but this guy's in a wheelchair for the rest of his life and um just then he passes me and i hear him say to the guy pushing him did you see that kid's face and so um that's the joke sorry for you yeah But I stopped telling it because I didn't want anybody to feel bad about it. But then one time I was telling it and a guy came up to be in a wheelchair after I told

that joke that it caught me called in San Jose. And he came up to me in a wheelchair and he had a voice box. And I thought, oh, no, oh, my God, I heard his feelings. And then he said, had you see that kid's face? He loved the joke and laughed and I said, okay, it's a fine joke to tell. It was a true one, yelling. It sounds like an Anthony Jesselnik type. of joke now. He does a little bit of dark stuff. But yeah, so you meet Rob Schneider in the 80s in

Sacramento. It laughs unlimited. So you stay in touch with these people. You see them around. And then in 92, Rob Schneider, by the way, he does not get enough credit. The public does not know how good of a sketchwriter he was at Saturday Night Live. The Ivy League people will say this. I mean, And the top people, he would write sketches like Ed Glossor Trivial Psychic for Christopher Walkin and just wonderful pieces that he was not in like massive headwin-Herry. That was his idea. So you have Rob Schneider and he is the one that comes to you and says, why don't you do write some sketches? You had never done sketches before.

You've never written them, like this at least. So this is actually your like, I think it's December. It's like over Christmas, 1991, you know, you're trying to put this packet together. What did you come up? Was it like three sketches? Was it six sketches? What stands at and what were your thoughts during all of this? Thanks for asking.

Yeah, I had never written a sketch before. I didn't quite know what the situation was, 10 pages. And I didn't know. So when Rob called and said, hey, you know, I'm here. I'd put a sketch and I had a show to Jim Danny, the head writer. And I watched the show. Like I just remember watching it. And I said to my girlfriend, she's my wife now.

I said, like, what are they? They're doing something different here. It's just different. something about it different. And there is. There's something great about it. But I didn't quite know how to put it together because I was used to in jokes or whatever. And so I wrote a sketch, first one I ever wrote. It was called Mr. Belvedere's Fan Club and fan of Mr. Belvedere's fan club. The guy who plays. It's one of my favorite sketches. That's right. That's the guy who the fan, yeah. Man, that's amazing. That's great. And I sent it into Rob. And Rob read it and

he liked it. He said he liked a lot. He was going to give him to Jim Downey and they gave him to Jim Downey. and then Jim Downey liked it, and they brought me out to be a guest writer off that one sketch, and I was absolutely blown away. The first host, when I was out there that was Jerry Seinfeld, and I gave it to him to read. I knew him from Stampton. He read it, and he read it, and he goes, no, I wouldn't read this. I mean, I wouldn't do this. I'll read it to table if you want, but it's not my sense humor.

It's a little dark, and I go, oh, geez. So I took it back and all that. So that was it for the first week. The second week was Tom Hanks, and so can I tell the story or about? I would absolutely love this. no, it's one of my favorite sketches, and I know a dress rehearsal, it only played so-so, and it killed

when I was, I mean, I, VGAHS, I taped it, we would, I'd watch it over and over get my friends at high school at Hershey High School. We'd quote it, but please tell us the story. By the way, Hershey High School, not Hershey PA, right? Hershey. That is, no, I've graduated from Hershey High School, worked at Hershey Park, overpriced T-shirts,

Upper Rhineland. With the Hershey Kisses as the street lamps, right? Oh, yes, it smells like chocolate when it's windy or rainy. Yeah. I did the plant tour by myself. I was driving out the chocolate world, yes. Yeah, dang. Dang, that's so cool because you grew up in New York City, though, right?

Didn't you? I got here when I was 18. I've been here longer than I've been any other place, but I was in Hershey, let's see, 6th grade until I graduated. Yeah, I was there for like six years or so. I see, I lived in five places in Pennsylvania, but we kept moving. So anyway, I gave it, so Tom Hanks was the host for the second week, and then read at the table, and it did great.

I got to say. And it got on. And the musical guest was my favorite musical of all time. I had three posters on the wall, Bruce Springsteen. And there they are doing my sketch on the flat that they did it on stage four. And he's warming up to do his first song as they're doing my sketch, Mr. Belvedere on air. And I'm watching Bruce Springsteen in the dark because they kept the lights down so I wouldn't distract. And he was doubled over laughing. I couldn't even. I mean, it was one of the biggest highlights. of my life, other than my two daughters being born. The highlight of my life is I have those guys doing my sketch and Bruce Springsteen's laughing. And after the sketch played on air, you're right, it did fairly well on air, is I had Springsteen come up to me and Tom Hanks, all these people coming to me. That was good, that was good. It was good sketch, good. And then I didn't get asked back. So the whole next year, I had assumed, everyone told me, oh, you got the job here. Because I knew most of the guys who stand up that were cast members at this point or working up to Cass. And everyone said, you got the job, you got the job. And so that summer, I figured

I had a job, but I didn't have one. They didn't ask me back in the fall. And so I went a year without working anywhere. I applied everywhere I could. I was broke. My girlfriend said, moving with me and said, you can pay the rent, blah, blah, blah. And so I just kept applying and applying and getting turned down and not knowing why I didn't get brought back there, but I kept sending stuff out. And I knew, you know, Spade, I would help them write some of this stuff for I'm going to update and Rob and Adam Sandler, all those guys. But I wanted a job there. I thought that would be kind of cool to have the job there.

And then one day, about a year and a quarter pass, and I got three phone calls in five hours. And it was the Conan and Brian new talk show, Robert Smichael called your buddy. Robert called to say, why don't you come right for this new talk show, Conan and Brian. Chevy Chase himself called me for his talk show to come right there. And I said yes to that because it's Chevy. And then Starrington Live, Jim Downey called, you know, all within a five or six hour period. I couldn't believe it. And I had already said yes to Chevy Chase.

So I didn't take the S&L one. I wanted S&L. That's what my dream was. So I will say this is eventually Chevy said, go out to Saturday Live. This show's not going to be on forever. So I did. I went out to Sire Live. And what's really kind of cool is when I first got there, when they called up and said,

okay, you're coming out to be on Siren. I have, yes. The first week, I put two sketches into the read-through, and they ate it so bad. They got no laughs at all. Lauren put the second one at the bottom of the pile, never wanted to read it. Wait a minute. This was John Malkovich hosted, so you do the first sketch that you wrote, and it just dies, and then they just skip over the second one. They don't even give you the respect of reading it. They didn't even read it. I understand. I mean, I ate it so hard. Plus, both sketches were 20 pages long, which is really long. I didn't know any better. And the next week I got a sketch on with, it actually killed at the table read. And I had someone come up to me and say, oh, man, I'm so glad this sketch did good because last week we were wondering, this is a guy they flew out here to do this job.

And that's how I knew that they, because they ate it so hard. You get silence. It's really hard. I'd have to work to get silence on a sketch, you know, at the table read. And then everything worked out after that. But I have to say the whole thing was pretty amazing. the whole thing because I was flying out for the 40th anniversary show, I'm starting alive. And someone had a Rolling Stone magazine on the plane and they had the top 50

sketches of all time. And my first sketch ever, Mr. Belvedere fan club, is in December 26 in that Rolling Stone magazine. It's amazing. I was looking at the list and then you have that and then you have Jimmy Tango's Bat Busters for Jim Carrey. And then they have the Alec Baldwin belated season greeting from January of 96. It was amazing. I mean, really amazing that they put those in the Rolling Stone magazine. I was, I mean, yeah, I can't. I mean, I started crying, you know, I got to tell you when I saw. As you should, I wish they would do attribution. I know that, you know, it's not easily accessible information who writes what, especially for back then. It's a big deal that you got three of them on.

Thank you. I mean, you're a fan of the show and you know stuff. I didn't know. You told me some great stuff. when we were talking, and it's really nice that you knew that I wrote those three. They didn't put my name on it. I knew I got in there. I'm just so, I love it, I'm so humbled, I'm so happy. I'm amazed, that's all.

I'm just amazed. I never told anybody by this, but when Tom Hanks' son came in to audition for a house bunny, one of the movies I directed, the first thing he said to me when I walked in the room, I was going to say, hey, I know your dad, and he did this sketch called Mr. Bellar, Franklip. He goes, Brock Toon.

First thing he said, read it out of that sketch and I like this guy and I cap them too for sure Colin The thing with that sketch with Mr. Belvedere fan club and I talked to one of the people

that was in it and I think I read an interview with you it did okay address but not great but they loved it so much they told you don't worry about it and they moved it up in the orders after Robert's Smigel sketch the Sopra Price is right

right before music with Springsteen an update and it killed it was such a funny funny sketch. Oh, thank you so much. One time I was walking past Lauren's office, and I saw Robert Smigel in there, and Roberts is the king, the king of all kings of kings of kings of kings, of kings of writers, of kings, of kings. When I was there, I would sit with him any time even until 6 a.m. He just worked like, oh, my God, is he good? Holy Lord, I get tongue-tied around this dude. But he was in there arguing with Lauren about something, and I thought, what's he arguing about? He was already to get my sketch up higher in the rundown. Like, I didn't know. He

wasn't telling me that. He was just doing it because he's a good man. That's really nice that he went to back with you. Yeah, really nice, man. The sketch that you mentioned that you got on the week after Malcovic, that was when Christian Slater hosted. That was that you're an idiot one. Is that it? Yeah. Yeah. He worked at a store. I was walking through Times Square and there was a newspaper headline store and I said, well, for me, they'd put, you're an idiot on the headline. And I go, hey, that's kind of a funny sketch. And I had just eaten it the week before. So I said, man, I was scared to put a sketch in that wouldn't be funny. So I made it an eight-pageer put it in and actually did really well and got on the air.

And thank God for that because, man, I felt terrible. So I thought they're going to fire me. This sketch is ate it the first week. That was John Malkovich was the host. Malcovich was the first week that you came in there. That was the fourth show. And then the thing that I don't, it doesn't make any sense is first of all, Belvedere killed. And then also, didn't you at least contribute or write the entire Sharon Stone monologue when she came in to host that time?

that was sort of a group effort, but I was in it. I was one of the people asking her questions and stuff. She was amazing, by the way, because I was such a junior writer. I was so scared. So I kind of glommed on to the host and asked him, you want me to go get you lunch or whatever. And she was great. She would ask me stuff.

So maybe it seemed like I contributed more than I did, but she would ask me about jokes and, you know, if I thought that was funny and so forth. She was great. Thank you for remembering that. John Malkovich, I couldn't even believe I was in the same room with that guy. Yeah, it was a tough show. when he hosted, the audience, I don't know if it was the audience or not. Yeah, you didn't get

anything on them. Then Christian Slater and then I think it might have been, let me look at my list. I think this might have been like your fifth show or something. It's one of my favorite sketches. It was your fifth show with Charlton Heston and Paul Westerberg where you did. And I had no idea Norm contributed to it, which is one of my favorite, which was the Heston playing the in the supermarket playing, is it Elwyn or Edwin? I haven't watched in a while the bag boy. Phil Hartman is the boss. And it's one of those things where there's music where it's, I don't think it's online because a lot of the best sketches are just because of the copyright. They're not on YouTube and Saturday Night Live can't really do much with them. But that's another sketch I would just watch over.

Can you talk about that sketch, the writing process of the sketch and just Heston and just, I mean, that was just, oh, gosh, the laughs on that thing. I love the build. Same with Belvedere. It just starts normal. And then you're just like, where is, who is this person? And it just gets, it goes to a place where you're just like, I don't know, it's just so funny and so smart and clever. I like this podcast.

You and my mom, all right. Yeah, no, yeah, no, I like it more than your mom does. But anyway, so that's not like a mom joke. I'm not doing a mom joke. It's all good. I got it. Charlton has some, on Monday night, there's a meeting in Lauren's office where the host for that week will go in there.

And you have all the writers and all the cast in the office there. and you'd tell people, you know, I'm going to work on this. I'm going to work on this. And Charleston was selling a story. And, you know, he's a legend at that time. And he was talking about Treasure of the Sierra Madre. And I was still, I was like a junior writer. I was trying to not to get anyone's way.

I sit way in the back of the room. There's about 100 people in room, whatever it was. And he goes, there was an actor. And Treasure the Sierra Madre, famous he had a line. Badges, we don't need no, stinking badges. I forget the actor's name. And from the back of the room, I went, Alphonse Padilla.

And he goes, yeah, that's right. And I remember thinking, well, give me some props. I just said Alphonse Padaya. No one house said that answer. But he was a giant star and all of stuff. And so once again, I was kind of put in my place. So we were writing, I had an idea of Bagboy, it was called. And Norm McDonnell and I, we shared an office.

And we were working on, we were trying to figure out what it was, what it was, what is the sketch? What does it go? Where does it go? We knew it was going to be dark because Norm was, I love it with Norm. And then all of a sudden, Norm just had one. line at 3 a.m. He said one line. I hear tell there's these things called duck-billed platypuses. And as soon as he said that, I go, oh, that's it. And we just started writing it. In 15 minutes, we had it written out because that was the missing piece. It made it all gel. And man, that thing

killed the table. I got to tell you, it blew the roof off at the table. Heston played it completely straight. And it starts with one of those things where he's just this incompetent. He's an older, you don't see people that are usually that old that are working in the supermarkets that are kind of like helping out as much and the first beat I think is it Melanie Hustle comes in with her son and he's like he takes the cereal and throws it on the floor to get the prize

and it's like don't worry about it and you're like oh okay and then it just starts getting and Phil Harmon keeps coming in as the boss and he's like are you crazy because he's just like one thing after another just completely like the price check on lettuce 16 bucks are you crazy

lettuce is 16 bucks And then you just reveal with Heston talking to Hartman that he not only is threatening to hurt him, but he has it all planned out. He's like, he doesn't say I'm going to use the pliers on you. He said, not only that, but he has a whole plan. He's talking about like, I'm not going to get pliers. I'm going to use the pliers on you. We're going to get that remote tool shed echo in. And he has, so you kind of see that.

And he has a smile on his face the whole time. He's like the gentlest, gentlest guy. And it just gets, oh, man. And then Sandler and Spade come in as the teenagers and start making mocking him. And then he puts them in their place. But really, you know, is this still very gentle guy. And they just put their heads down and walk off. And it was like the funniest sketch.

Man, that's so nice to hear. And I was laughing. I was probably laughing at Norms, the lines that he contributed. I don't laugh at my own stuff like that. But that was good. You're right. The recall you have on that was great. And that's how he played it.

He played it really straight, really good. That's amazing. Thank you very much. the end was really funny too because it was like a price check on him and it was like two for a nickel or something like that it was but again it was one of those things where the beats were at Heston I it's hard

I don't know how many hosts could have really pulled that up but he sold it and Phil Hartman I mean come on I mean the gold standard I mean he was as the boss and such a funny sketch did you write with Norm that year before he got updated did you write a bunch of right with him like because I know

he did for example like he did he would do these solo pieces like Jack Kovorki and he did I think that when Sally Field Host and he would did like Charles Corral, he would do these solo Andy Rooney. Did you write with him on any of those? Yeah, yeah. So like I said, we showed in the office, I believe it, I mean, what a crew. It was Norm and I, whatever, it was a connected office.

So it was Adam Sandler, David Spading, Chris Rock. And then Norm and myself also, you know, Mike Judge was coming in for, yeah, he's doing some of the shorts, yeah. Yeah, what a collection. And but Norm stay up late and we would just sit there. And Norm would sit there and Norm never wrote anything down. He really never did. Nothing was, Zach, nothing was written on paper, which is unbelievably genius.

I used to look around the, come on, he's got to be lying, but nothing was written down. He would come in like around 3 a.m. After doing a gig somewhere and we'd write from 3 to 6 and I would throw stuff in there. But then he would sit there and he would make me feel bad about myself because he would be quiet and all of a sudden go, It's the funniest thing I ever heard, and I just write it down and get credit for it now. When did you first meet with, Lorne? Is when you got your six show tryout, or is it when you got hired in 93 that you met with him and then you did some, you were doing normal material for people outside? But when did that take place?

And then can you tell the story? Was that when you first got the six shows, or was that when you were hired permanently that you sat down with Lauren? After I sent that Mr. Belvedere sketch, Downey said you liked it. And I guess to even hire as a guest writer, Lauren has to give his coordination or whatever. And so, yeah, so I was sitting outside of Lauren's office on the ninth floor and there's always a crowd outside his office, people waiting to see him. I was out there for like two hours. And I was supposed to see him at 3 o'clock, see him at 5 o'clock.

I couldn't care less. I was excited. And there was these two interns talking about having seen Norm McDonald at a comedy club the night before and they were telling each other jokes, but they weren't telling them the way I could tell him. So I go, hey, excuse me, you guys talking about Norm MacDonald, the comedian? And they go, yeah. I go, you want me to do his act? So I stood up and I started doing Norm. We were friends, you know, and I knew his act cold. And I started doing, and it killed. His act was killing outside Lauren's office to a point where Lauren Michaels opened the door of his office to see,

what's hard in noise, what's going on? What is? And someone said, he's doing Norm McDonald. He's doing Norm right now. The guy we saw that. night. You know, I'm sure Lauren was already going to hire him, I'm sure, but it didn't hurt that I was killing doing Norm. I called him right after my meeting and said, you got to call there. I mean, I just killed doing you. And Norm said, what biz did you do? Which one did you do? Yeah. So, but he was unbelievable. I miss that guys. I was driving a couple days ago and got a new phone. And I saw that I took a picture in 2020 of him. He was going to be playing a casino up in Sacramento. I was going to go see him there. I can't believe he's gone. So, but he is.

I was looking some, I don't know, meeting or something or doing something serious. Yeah, my wife, Kristen, locked on the door. I could just tell she was very quiet. And, you know, I met him a bunch of times. He was very nice. We texted. But I just don't have the friendship like you did. But just the fact, his just his work meant so much to me that like I just, oh, it was so hard. I can't even imagine you were, you were friends with him to get that news. I counted myself as lucky that I knew for as long as I did. And we wrote dirty work together, Frank Sebastian and I, and by the way, Frank wrote for Norm on an update. Oh, some of the most famous jokes were him.

Yeah, that's another interesting how he got hired over there and said, just sending in jokes. And he was like a moving truck driver sending in jokes, but jokes were so funny. I've got to tell you quick Frank's story. Please. I was walking down the hallway, and I had just met Frankie. just started working there. I think I was a head writer at this point, I think. You were. I was it, okay. Mark, I'm going to call you for all my

biography, so for real. Yes. Great. It was great. But I was walking down the hallway and I just mess around. I passed Frank. I go, oh, I'm Frank Sebastian. I write for Norm. And he goes, I'm Fred Wolfe getting choked by Frank. And I laughed so fucking hard. And I Hey, Norm, Norm, come on. You hired a one. He's a

one. He's a good one. That was a good joke. Good as well. I had never seen anybody because I, you know, I'd gone to the show and I'd met a bunch of the writers. It was so shocking to see that that you could dress like that and have the long hair and the beard and get hired. Dino Stametopoulos over at Conan to when I was going early on, I was like, how can I get a job like this? You can just wear jeans and have long hair and get, I just figured people had to dress up a little bit. I mean, they both were, you know, I mean, kept, I mean, they looked good and stuff. But yeah, definitely when you see Frank, I don't know if Letterman, well, he did work for Letterman later, I mean, because he had such an amazing reputation. I don't know if Dave would have hired him in the 80s, I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah, but what an amazing. I wanted to ask you about that norm, because, you know, Norm's update was so influential and people still talk about it, but were you still there for those first?

I don't know when you got there by show number four. Was Herb Sargent still there doing update with Norm? Because, you know, her amazing run with, you know, Dennis Miller, original writer, Kevin Neeland, but it definitely seemed when I watched the first couple with when Herb was there, it kind of helped that same type of felt. It didn't have Norm's voice. What did you observe because I don't know if Norm pushed him out or Lauren pushed him out, but with Herb, he was very territorial of that position of update.

What happened? I actually don't know the behind the scenes of it. Herb had been there since 75, I think, right? Yeah. And yeah, he would have been more old school and stuff. But Herb was a nice guy, but he didn't really. mix, he didn't hang out with us or whatever. But I know that Norm has a very distinct knowledge about what he wanted to do or what type of writing he wanted. And he wrote a lot

of his own stuff. A quick story about Herb is he was sort of a king around there. And he had such a big name. And one day he was talking to me and he said, this is when I was first there. I told you Bruce Springsteen. I lied as that dude. He asked me, he's the first guy to be on the cover of Time and Newsweek, the same week. I knew it was Bruce Springsteen. I knew as Bruce Springsteen. But he said it was, oh, I'm blowing the story. Somebody who, and he was totally serious, somebody who just had like one hit or two hits, Rick Springfield, Rick Springfield. Oh, okay, yeah.

That seems like somebody that might have been a little bit older that would get that confused. Yeah. Oh, no. So I said, very true what you just said. But I said, oh, no, actually, it was Bruce Springsteen kind of famously. And he goes, no, no, no, no, it was Rick Springfield. And I said, no, no, 1975 famously happened. And he said, you want to bet?

And I go, I don't have me money. And he goes, I bet me 50 bucks. I go, yeah, that's the money I don't have. This is my first week there or whatever. And then when I didn't get asked back, I asked people, was that one of the reasons? Maybe did Herb say something? Because he found out I was right about 15 minutes later. And he walked into the studio where I was, excuse me, the director's booth there.

And he threw the $50 down and kept walking because he lost that bet. it was Bruce Springsteen and I never talked to him again after that and so I was wondering if he put a word in against me I don't know I I I shouldn't say that about Herb Sargent but and then Al Franken too called you that the year after you didn't get hired as well I just got because did you why did he call you was it something that like it wasn't like a disagreement or something he's just like I just want to let you know what was the disagreement if you're comfortable sharing he's such a nice guy Al Franken When I first got there, I argued with them because I argue with them over something. Suddenly I go, what am I doing? Why am I arguing with Al Franken? He's like a legend here, blah, as kind of staring at the table. And I look over at one of the writers that had been there forever. And I said, did I just look like a psycho?

And she went, yeah, kind of, kind of. And so I thought, okay, maybe. And I didn't look like a giant psycho, but he was wrong about what he was saying, by the way. he was saying it was rich springfield on the cover of time and music not no but uh i thought that al franken really because he told me to shut up finally he said just shut up and i thought maybe he's why i didn't get asked back but but he called me uh during the season i wasn't there hey fras al and i just want you know it wasn't me that and we're wondering why you know we think you're really funny and that was such a nice thing for him to do and uh we've become friends and yeah

I do want to point out that at the same time you were getting your tryout, Ian Maxstone Graham was getting a tryout. And, you know, he definitely the Ivy League thing, especially back then, not so much now was really looked highly upon. You went to Brown. He did get on. It was the very last show that you were there. Woody Harrelson finale. He got the very last sketch on of the night, which was called fetal abuse laughathon. And it was Victoria Jackson pregnant. Woody Harrelson getting, I think Phil Hartman was the first. I think Phil Hartman was the last sketch on of the night, which was called fetal Abuse laughathon. And it was called fetalibus laughathon. And it. And it was Victoria Jackson, I think Phil Hartman was the last. I think Phil Hartman was the concerned father and he leaves and you know just be careful and stuff and woody harrison's just talking you know um irish coffee the caffeine and the alcohol i think they cancel each other out so she's drinking and it's just like one beat after another and it's like i think she has her her pregnant belly at one point she like in the microwave and it's like going and then it cuts i think at the end she fell down the stairs and it cuts to john lovitz me and like that was me as a child please watch the john lovitz um special this week he was gone by then but yeah Yeah, that special was really fun.

That's some of the Godfather P. I think James Kahn was in that. That's great. Let's watch the John Lovett special or whatever. But my point is, is Ian, you know, got that on at the very last thing. And maybe that had an impression of him. I'm not really sure. He's such a good guy.

And he was asked back. So he came out, yeah, those last two shows and got that sketch on. He was asked back the next year. He should have been asked. I mean, he's a very funny writer. I really like Ian. Ian's like a really good guy. Like, he's a really, really good guy.

I thought this was really interesting because it's like, you get to SNL. You're so wide in when you first get there. And it's the Sharon Stone Week with Pearl Jam. And not only are you around 8H just being like, I can't believe I'm here, but you know, Pearl Jam, they broke, but not to the extent. I mean, they were still like, you know, this band that wasn't like selling up Madison scored Garden or anything. So you're a wide-eyed.

And then you meet Eddie Vedder. And he's wide-eyed as well. And so you have this connection with him. Yeah, any better. A lot of times a record company will do a deal where if someone they know is going to break, if you get booked on signing alive, then they'll let you have the Rolling Stones or something like that. And they hadn't broke yet, Pearl Jam. So I got to go down and watch the band's rehearsal, which is great on Thursday. And I go down there and there's this group, Pearl Jam, which people hadn't heard about yet. And there's this guy, Eddie Vedder, singing alive. That voice was insanity. I couldn't even believe what I was hearing here. So I waited when they were done, he walks off stage, Eddie Vedder does. And like I said, they weren't known at this time. And I go, man, that was unbelievable. Your voice?

What? And then he came up to me, he goes, do you work here at Saturday Life? You work here? And I go, yeah. I can't believe I'm talking to somebody who works here on Saturday Live. This is amazing. I was just like a mad scientist, skateboarding to the streets of San Diego. When I suddenly I'm doing a band and here I'm on Saturday Live, I can't even

believe I'm here. And he was talking, and he was so nice, so freaking nice. And he was talking to me for 15, 20 minutes. And he kept repeating it. Like, you couldn't believe I worked there, how happy he was to be there and how he's just a mad scientist skateboarding the streets of Seattle and San Diego, and how happy he was to be there. And then a couple years later, they broke and they were giant.

And he was still a nice guy, but there was all this giant crew and all these publicists and managers. And he was like, oh, hey, yeah. And I was like, where's that guy? Where's that guy hanging out, you know? Two years, that's all it takes. They came back was Emilio Estevez, and that would have been. 94 with Pearl Gem. You did that sketch.

You did the bench one, right? How much can you bench? Was that yours with Spade? With Spade, everyone else had like the small legs and they kind of like the puppet legs, but Spade used his own. Yeah. Spade's one of our favorite guys are right for, period. But I remember thinking, is this going to hurt his feelings?

Because, you know, right, they had puppet legs. They only worked on their upper body strength. And Amelia yesterday is, by the way, probably the nicest host ever. I would think, you know, he's up there. and how much you bench was one of my favorites because every time I walked into any gym guys were competitive with me because I couldn't bench anything and how much you bench as if that should matter but anyway I love doing that one there were some people that would come in there and they would they would be so respectful of best now and they'd be so like in awe of it

and there was some hosts and I won't say their names that would come in and they would tell us what we're doing wrong or why it's wrong or whatever and you don't see them around anymore a lot of them you know they just kind of I don't know there's just so some of these people would come in and you they're like this is what's wrong with the show and this is what we need to do yeah and a lot of times they didn't know what they're talking about sometimes maybe they did I don't know but the ones who like Tom Hanks or Chris Wocken Chris Wocken is one of my favorite hosts to work with and write with and he was so happy to be there but like I just couldn't believe I was sitting with these guys and they'd actually be a laugh I actually can tell a quick walk his story I would

love that. You wrote the talk show thing for him, right? He was like, he was like a talk show host and the Kairons or he's like, that guy is like, maybe I'm off on that. I thought that was yours, but he did this thing called the Continental. It was his idea where it was a TV show that he watched growing up in Queens. It was a 15-minute TV show, I guess they used to do that back then. Yes. The guy showing you how to pick up winning. And so the camera was on him the whole time, as if it was the woman's POV that's sitting on. It was just me and walk and writing in my office. And I was like, I was in heaven. The guy is so funny.

He's amazing, of course. Every time I would seem like in L.A., Warren would call me and say, oh, Chris is in town because he doesn't drive. So I get to drive him around, you know, and hang out of them. And you go, I know you. Yeah, I know you. No, I just never remembered for sure.

But we're writing. And then I just, I'll just make this really quick. I go, hey, what if you say to the girl, I, the woman you're picking up and showing us how to pick up, what if you say, I have fallen for you and I can't get up? And he goes, why would I say that? I go, oh, like the commercial. I have fallen and I can't get up the Life Alert commercial like that

I don't know it no I don't want to say that and I go oh no all you have to say is I have fallen for you and I can't get up because I have fallen for you I can't get up I go on to just maybe a little bit more like this like this and finally he says no how many times I can say no

I'm not doing that joke no and so I go whoa and so I backed off or whatever we did that and then on Saturday we're doing the dress rehearsal and I say, oh my God, this joke, I know where it goes. I know where it will kill. And I went up to like five minutes before he was out to do the dress rehearsal of that sketch,

the Continental. And I go, hey, Chris, can I just put it in there? All you have to say is, I fall in for you and I can't get up. I know exactly what I put up in cue cards. I'll get to say it. He goes, fine, put it in there. I'm told sick of you. So I ran and put it on the cue cards.

And then on the dress rehearsal on the show, he does that line. And it destroys. And as the sketch is over, I'm standing here waiting to see what he says. He walks by me to go do the next sketch. And as he walks by him, he goes, I don't know what I said, but I'm saying it again. Yeah, I won that one. So he's a dress at work. And then he said, that would have been, I think it was January of 96.

Did you know, that was Tom Davis originally came up with that with Chris Walk. I mean, it was an established, it was based on a real thing. Did you write that? I mean, Tom was gone by that. No, Alex Franklin and Tom Day. They had written it for him, like he had done it before, but this was one of his return hosting gigs, and I got to write it with him. But it was his original idea because he had seen that show. Yeah, the actual show that it was based on in the late 50s, early 60s, in Queen.

Amazing. You got to work with Chris Welkin and so many of these people. Fred Wolf, I have so many pieces of paper here with questions that I have not got into. Will you please come back? Oh, I can't wait. Mark, I cannot wait to come back, first of all. Secondly, I don't think I drove you crazy. Talked about myself too much here.

Are you kidding me? No, no, not at all. This was, we talked the other day. You said it was two hours. I thought it was like 20 minutes. But no, I mean, some of my favorite, like the John Travolta cold open where him walking around and stuff, like I wasn't sure if you wrote that, or even the Churchill and Heston one, but I'm pretty good at spotting what your style is.

And I'm wrong sometimes. I mean, it's just like the Patrick Stewart, the one where he's the devil and stuff. It's just like one thing after another. the polar bears, which we talked about with a Jimmy Fallon writer, Arthur Meyer. There's so much stuff. I really little women pyramid of pain with Alec Baldwin, so many things I really want to talk about. So, yeah, please come back. This would be fun.

Thank you. And when I come back, if I could tell you the story about the polar bear and the, you know, the director's story, you know, Paul Thomas Anderson, Sandler said I could tell the story because he's part of it. And I'd love to tell it to you. I can't wait to talk about that. Yeah, that was the. That was really pivotal because that was the last sketch.

That was DeKovny, Rod Stewart, the finale before everybody got the acts. I mean, all those cast members and a lot of symbolism there. So Fred Wolf, thanks for doing this. Oh, Mark, thank you so much. This is a blast. A sheer blast. You're the man. You are.

Thanks for listening. Please subscribe so you never miss an episode. On Apple Podcast, please rate it and leave a review. Be sure to go to late-nighter.com for all your late-night TV news. and you can find my podcast at latenighter.com forward slash podcasts. Have a wonderful week, and I'll see you next Tuesday. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you.