Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Fred Wolf Returns

Episode Date: January 14, 2025

Comedian/Writer Fred Wolf returns to discuss his famous Saturday Night Live sketches including "Ba Bye" and "Little Women", the brilliance of Chris Farley, meeting Paul Thomas Anderson, and being the sidekick on Comics Only with Paul Provenza.   Subscribe to: Paul Provenza's YouTube Channel

Hi, I am Mark Malkoff and welcome to Inside Late Night, presented by latenighter.com. Comedian Fred Wolfe returns to discuss his famous Saturday Night Live sketches. We start off our conversation talking about Fred being the sidekick on the TV show, Comics Only with Paul Prevenza, which aired from 1991 to 1992. Now it's time to go inside late night. You know what? I was watching, we'll talk about it, but I was watching one of my friends, who's friends with Paul Prevenza, let me know that Paul just put up all these clips of you from your show with Paul, and it's fun watching you from 91 and 92, so I was just watching

some of those clips. Oh, where do you put them up? He put them on his YouTube channel. I didn't even know Paul Prevenza had a YouTube channel, but my friend, Dan, who's good friends with him, told me about it. So I, it was fun watching some stuff. Oh, Dan? Dan Pasternak. Yeah, yeah, he's told me. He's the one that, requested you do your bit he was very happy and dan was like um no paul has clips up so yeah it was really fun i was just watching a clip actually on the youtube channel of it's a cold

open where paul brands you you actually have to like i think pull down your pants and then and then he brands you and then it cuts to that and then that's the opening title that's hilarious that's uh i i'll do i'll make fun of myself all day long all day my whole life but that was was the one bit where I go, Paul, really, really? I don't know why. I just didn't know about, yeah. I didn't know where it was quite where it was going, especially for, you know, 1990,

91, but it was, you got like Steve Allen, all these amazing people were on the show, which was fun. I loved that show so much. Oh, it was, it was just comics. And it was on, it was on five nights a week, too. What was Comedy Central?

We were saying the other day, Ha, TV, and there was a little. The Ha Network or the comedy channel, it was one of those things. I love talking to people that were on television back then because, you know, right now there's like 400 channels that there's so many options. But from you being on that show, you were getting recognized constantly from being on the show, correct? I was. And I think this is kind of, it's not kind of weird, but I never, first of all, I never thought I would have any appeal at all to an audience. I never thought ahead of like, oh, I wonder if I'll get like people that want to see my act or whatever, a comedy act.

But the show, it, I've heard this about early days of Saturday Night Live too, is that they had no idea what they had on their hands. I was reading a book about how Chevy, actually, Chubby did confirm this with me that they're walking around and they had no idea why they were getting mobbed and they realized they're on TV on NBC, 1130. It was a brand new show and they didn't know if anybody was watching or not. And I think that was kind of what was going on with the Preventive show is there it is, it's on prime time, 8 o'clock. five nights a week. And I was shocked that people knew who I was. They knew my name. And they would kind of shout it out. And they start gathering. And next thing, you know, the crowd gets bigger and bigger. And I had never, ever thought that I would ever be at the center of any kind of crowd like that. And it got to the point where there are hundreds of people. And like, I'll tell you

one thing really quick is that my wife had a event when she was about 22, 23 years old. A very, a very bad one has to do with a serial killer, believe it or not. And a guy came into her apartment that had been following her for one week and he was going to, you know, kill her. And he ended up killing a whole bunch of other people. And this is a really, really bad story. But finally, a woman that he was doing this to literally kill him with a shotgun. And we're very happy about that. Goodbye guy.

But so I met her fairly soon after that happened. And so she was, you know, she had trauma, very much, you know, PTSD. and there'd be these crowds like forming around me because of comedy central and I'm on the show and I'm even I'm going who are these people what's going on here or why are they know my name what's going on and we'd be walking around and they'd be following us and all that sort of stuff and she started getting really nervous about it because she's still like PTSD I didn't know what to do like first of all I really liked this woman that was we were dating we're now married 32 years but she didn't like being with me because of that the crowd things and just when she was sort of telling me what are we going to do here, I think we need to think about our relationship here. This guy pedals by on his, look, we have like 100 people around us,

and she goes, you know, this can't keep going on. And this guy pedals by on a 10 speed just flies by, he goes, friend wolf! And my wife goes, that was, he won the tour to France last year. Like she's a huge fan of bike riders, you know? And she goes, oh, okay, well, that guy's, I'm okay we might meet a guy like that one day okay we're fine it's okay yeah yeah it was a bizarre thing

I mean I have that right basically I think she was in love with me she wasn't going to leave me there was no one I mean you're Fred Wolf I do want to mention I talked to um the late Ken Ober when you know Ken Ober we were talking about early remote control and I'm sure Colin Quinn had the same thing Ken was saying the same thing that you were saying that you know just being on cable back then I mean he was just getting you know people were just mobbing him wherever they they went um it was definitely looking back right now um just the ratings the amount of eyeballs that were on these shows i mean or get they've got way more than anything like most of network network tv is probably getting now like to consider it a hit i mean

if like a couple million people are watching you it can be considered a hit but in every single night especially being on like that how remote control was on MTV and that you were on the comedy channel who was it was uh it was kenober colin quinn and there was a woman uh forget her name oh my goodness was it kerry warner was there were two women i think was forget the and then sandler would play stud boy and then dennis leary would come on and um they had great people yeah and you're you're right about that i guess it was because i remember uh the girl i was dating way before my wife and i can't stand that woman i love my wife is uh i would go over to her house to watch MTV because I mean I would literally

trek over after I got off work just to sit there and look at this thing because it was brand new. All this stuff was crazy cool. And yeah, it was all new and it was, I guess people really were watching it. Like people our age were watching at that point, right? Because there wasn't much for us. And then it seems like Comedy Central.

I'm trying to think of what it was before Comedy Central. It was a combination of two distinct channels that both had their own audience but then they combined it became like a behemoth and I'm trying to think what it was but but for Venza was like

he was the man he uh for Venza did stand up and he was a really funny guy and he was part of that New York contingent that came out to L.A.

And they dominated once they came out. It was just a whole new fresh take on comedy and that was like 82, 83 or something like that and Keenan was part of that group. Tina Wayne's who we were talking about last time. Oh, Keenan Waynes. Yeah, you mentioned that that hilarious story. I was like, how do I know, yeah, Prevenza was going on Carson. And then it was interesting because, you know, I, um, I'm a little younger and I was one, they had this Nickelodeon show. I don't

even know if you're aware of it that Preventza hosted a kid show called Kids Court. And it, he was the, yeah, he was just kind of kept order and they would have these like mock cases, but real kids and stuff. And it was like, fair, unfair. And so that's how I knew him at first. And then, I don't even think I knew he was a stand-up, maybe. Yeah, so prolific. So funny. And definitely anybody listening, go to Prevenza's YouTube channel and check out his clips and watch Fred. The last time we were talking, we teased this. So I don't want to go too long without mention in it is the season finale of the 94-95 season, David DeCovny hosted. And it was the last sketch of the night. And I distinctly remember where I was one.

I was watching it. I was watching with my friends. I remember I was at my friend Steve McEwan's house. And it was the polar bear sketch. And I want to talk about the polar bear sketch. And then I want to talk about a well-known director who subsequently you had no idea. He's one of my, I love this guy's work, who was a huge fan of that sketch. Now, how, can you tell me, talk about how that sketch came about in the premise? Oh, sure. Yeah. So the, uh, the premise, it was, it was the five, we called the five to one piece. It's the last piece of the show. And it's about five guys at the zoo. And this really happened. I was in the news that people were going into the polar bear cage, which I can't never should do with that. But so this idea was that one by one, there's five cast members. And one by one, they go, I'm going in the polar bear cage.

And each one that goes in gets killed by the polar bear. And they still continue to go in. And it coincided with the people that were leaving the show. And that would be their last sketch that they did for S&L as cast. numbers. And it was bittersweet in a lot of ways. I loved everyone in that sketch were my favorites on the show. So I, you know, it got laughs. It did fine. It didn't destroy. And it's a five to one piece. So there are a lot of times they're quiet. It's a good place to study one the five to one pieces on. If you want that library vibe. But they still told me that they liked

it and it had a certain type of humor to it. But it was mostly that I liked it because it was sort of, you know, metaphor and symbolic and so forth. But so anytime that would happen where I had a sketch not do great, I would go into like a severe depression that would last for like two hours. Like, they're going to fire me. I'm awful. I'm so like, oh my God,

I was about why did I think that was funny? And that was one of the ones that didn't kill and was the last piece of the scene. I want to interject just really quick that all the cast members were playing themselves. So it was like Adam, uh, Sandler, Farley, Norm,

J. They were playing them, themselves, right? I think that was my, that's what I remember, at least. They weren't playing characters. So they're playing themselves. So the symbolism is there. And also, it was a hard show in terms of the audience laughter. Like the Zagat's thing with Farley and Sandler's considered classic now. That did well. That was very early on the show. But I mean, that was a tough season. There were some Dion Sanders, Paul Reiser. There were some tough shows with audiences that just from the cold open, I mean, they were not letting standbys. And now, I think last

week, somebody told me that it was like 70 people for dress and live. And they weren't letting any standbys in, almost any. And that does affect the audience. And the quietness, I mean, is really tough from an all-V-IP audience. You would actually know this because you know everything. I hope your fans know how brilliant you are on B-Zeres. Anyway, is when I first saw the Tonight Show, I went to the Tonight Show at taping of it. When I first got to L.A., my friend Blake Clark was doing stand-up on there, which I couldn't believe I was there in the audience for the Johnny Carson show. And you know a lot about Johnny Carson. I do. Yeah, Blake went on a lot, by the way. Blake went on like 15 times or something. I tried to get him on the podcast. Yeah, he was, it was amazing how

prolific he was as well with his stand-up. Yeah, yeah, and he's great. And we're good friends. He's the first friend I met in L.A., and he happened to be a stand-up comedian. I have a story about that. Blake is on a sitcom app. Like, you know, he was in Vietnam. He was a lieutenant in Vietnam, and he's still working. It's amazing. But anyway, so when I was in the audience, the first thing that struck me is when Carson came out, I had the chills, and I was in shock that I'm watching this guy live.

I'd seen for so many years my whole life on TV, but I couldn't hear him that well. It was like a very odd, tinny sound, and obviously they're thinking about the home audience. They're thinking about the 8 million watching out in the United States. They're not worried too much about the 200 people, whatever it is right there. But it had just an odd sound feel to it, and it made it seem less flashy. But then I started thinking, okay, they're doing this for a reason, but I can barely hear him. And it turns out that obviously that's a good thing for TV. They know what they're doing, the engineers.

And at Sanket Live kind of had that go on where if something didn't destroy, a lot of times the home audience doesn't know that it's getting really good laughs in the studio. But when I have a sketch die, I'm talking about silence. I'm talking about bad, no reaction at all. But I think that by and large, Saturday Live has always been a show where there's something different about it. It's not punchline driven. It's sort of attitude driven. And things sort of get by sometimes without getting a huge laughs.

They still might click somehow for whatever reason. And Polo Bear apparently was one of those sketches. Can I tell you a quick story about what kind of, It has to do with that director you were talking about. Yeah, please. Okay, so I watched this movie called Boogie Nice, and I freaked out. I couldn't believe how good this movie was. And this is before the internet and all that sort of stuff.

So I wouldn't really know much about the director. I wouldn't be able to look them up as much. But I idolized this guy because that movie was amazing. I watched it like 25 times in the theater. So a bunch of us were flying up to New York City, and Sandler, it was. his plane and he goes, Hey, Fred, you're a fan of that dude,

Paul Thomas Sanderson, aren't you? I go, wow, this guy's amazing. He goes, well, he's going to be in New York. And I go, dang, dang. He goes, he's going to be at SNL on Saturday. I go, what? He goes, he's there. He's just hanging out and he'll be there.

And I told him you might want to meet him. And I go, what the f? I was like so damn excited. I actually kind of blew it what I was supposed to be doing in New York City, what I was supposed to be working on. All I could think about was meeting PTA. So Saturday, Sandler and a bunch of us went to, you know, we'd all left by then, the show, and we went by, and it was packed. It was a Saturday crowd, live show, just a packed house.

And Stanley comes up to me, goes, hey, Paul Thomas Anderson's upstairs on nine, the ninth floor outside Warren Michael's office, and he's waiting for it. And I go, oh, my God, okay, so like I'm super nervous because I'm an idiot, and he will know within five seconds, he's brilliant. And I know a secret way to get to Lauren's office fast on 9th floor, which is like a maintenance stairway. And as I'm going up, and he's supposedly waiting for me. As I'm going up, a fan stops me on the hallway or in the stairway there. And he's a really nice guy. And he's talking about polar bear. He's talking about that sketch. He starts saying, I saw this sketch, and it's amazing. And I think you wrote it. And tell me about this. And I always try to be nice to anybody that wants to say anything to me.

But with him, it kept going on and on. I'd say, oh, thank you. That's so nice. Thank you. But I'm going to go ahead and sneak past you. Oh, what's that? Oh, yeah, yeah. That was Jay Moore, right?

Right. Oh, yeah, Sandler said that line. That's right. Oh, anyway, nice to see you. I got to run. And he just kept talking and talking and talking. And I'll never be rude to a fan. But finally, I said, dude, I got to go.

Okay. Buddy, thanks. Sorry, man. And I race up to the nine. floor and Sandler's up there and he goes, huh, what did you think? I mean, what are you talking about? He goes, you were just talking to Paul Thomas Anderson. What are you talking about?

Like, what? That guy on the staircase with Paul Thomas, he was talking about my sketch polar bear and I was trying to get past him to go meet him. The biggest nerd in the world was Paul Thomas Anderson and made me feel better about myself, by the way. But, God, dang, that was fun. That was great. You did talk to him more, though, after that.

We did. We actually, yeah. Actually, what's the movie? I came right after, right after Boogie Nice. Was it Punch Drunk Glove or was that before? I don't remember the sequence of bangs. Right. It was before Punch Drunk Glove,

Sandler had filmed it, so that's how they knew each other. Magnolia? Magnolia, that's right. You got it. So we did hang out afterwards, and I didn't want to tell him, I thought he was the nerd on the staircase.

I didn't want to say that, But we started talking, and I couldn't stop talking about Boogie Nights, you know. I went on and on and asked him this question, asking him this question, this question. And then finally he said, oh, yeah, my latest movie, I opened last Friday, Magnolia. And went, oh, yeah, yeah, I liked it. Hey, so in Boogie Knives, when he comes. I got, I swear to God, what an idiot I am. But, God, I love that movie.

I like Magnolias, but Boogie Nights, let's go. Yeah. Yeah, he's phenomenal filmmaker. really like his stuff. So Helen Hunt comes in to host the show. This is March of 1994. And the first thing you picture, because you wrote a really famous sketch that we'll talk about Bye, which, you know, people still do that today. So, but is the first thing that you pitched her before, by was the pasta maker sketch, which ended up being the season finale with Heather Lockler a bunch of months later. But is that what you pitched Helen Hunt initially? Um, yeah, actually, yeah. Um,

There's a Monday night meeting at Saturday Live when the new host comes in. And the host sits there and all the writers, all the cast, a bunch of the crew, they're in Lauren's office, and everybody sort of talks for about 20 seconds about what they're going to work on that week and so forth. And the host listens and then the host will say something towards the end there. And it's a routine ritual. And it came to me and they go, Fred, Fred, what are you going to be working on this week? And Lord Michaels had in his office a phone where there's like five or six different channels on it. And you could make them all ring by pushing a certain button that I knew of. I'd gone in and tested out this little thing where you push this button and all the ringers go off.

It's like all five lines. Ring really crazy and really loud. And so I said, my sketch is about, I think I'm going to be working on is about a woman who says crazy stuff. And every time she says something crazy on an infomercial, the switchboard license and offended people. And it killed, that phone thing killed. Spade said afterwards, by the way, that he's never said this to me before, but he said, I was jealous of you. I can't believe you got that phone deal.

He killed with that phone deal. He kills with his actual bits and comedy he's supposed to be killing with. I'm killing with stupid devices. A prop act I was for a second there. But the idea was essentially that a woman is selling a pasta maker on an infomercial, but she's saying the craziest stuff to sell it. Like, for instance, you're saying that this pasta maker could, that's a, get it for this price. And it's so easy to use even a Puerto Rican can figure it out. And when she

says stuff like that, the switch ports light up in offense, you know? And she doesn't, she doesn't realize that that is why they're letting up. She thinks they're selling pasta makers. And she's one of these people that is just completely clueless, completely racist around the board and just has the biggest smile on her face trying to sell these pasta makers and doesn't realize that that's why the board. And you have that visual with the board all lighting up. Yeah, and so, you know, she's clueless, and the person, Mike Myers, actually played the co-hosts trying to sell the Pawsomeaker, he's going out of his mind because she's saying crazy stuff. But like you said, she has no idea it's bad. We hit every single race, every religion, every type of person where she's just saying clueless, crazy stuff.

And Helen Hunt read the sketch and she said, I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to say all this stuff here. A little too much for me. But thank you. It's like Seinfeld with Mr. Belved. It just wasn't a fit, which actually, I have to say, is good for a host. If they're uncomfortable, it might show in their performance. She passed on it.

And then Mike Myers played Richard Hayden, who if I'm sure people remember that that was from Tommy Boy, that was Spade's character, right? Was that? That's amazing. I love this. You and I talked on a phone about this. I love so much that you research that and you found that out. Richard Hayden was a friend of mine in New York City. I had a bunch of people that I never saw again once we moved.

I remember, this is all before the Internet, all before cell phones. And he was one of my best friends, and actually my best friend. And I dropped his name in sketches and in Tommy Boy, yes, that was database character name. And I got to talk to him about 15 years ago. I tracked him down through other friends and called Richard Hayden and said, hey, it's Fred Wolf. And he remembered me. And then I said, hey, I've been using your name. Have you seen it anywhere?

And he goes, no, no. And then he called me back like three days later. He had seen Tommy Boy. And he said, I'm now cool to my kids. I can't believe that. He says, Richard Hayden. And he had not seen that, you know, all those years. But luckily now he has, I guess.

And there's still one outstanding one. Ronald Ford is the other name I use constantly. And no one knows where Ronald Ford is. And I want to say hi to him. He was the coolest. That was really cool. By the way, with Helen Hunt, she was nice about not wanting to do that sketch. And luckily, B'Bi was the other one I had that week.

And so she was fine. But at the end of the week after B'bye at the rat party, I just said, you really didn't like that one sketch, huh? And she said, well, I didn't not like it. It's just that it's not my thing. And that's fair. That's fair. You know. Yeah, I want to talk about B'Bah in a second.

But getting back to Pasta Maker with Locklear, who was, I guess, up for anything. Steve Corrin wrote a really funny sketch of that episode called The Flirt, which it went back and forth with Kevin Neelan. and her, and it was just really, really funny beats. And that was such a good finale. It was Janet Jackson, Heather Lockler. And then between Dress and Live, Lord, what Lauren actually asked for you to tone one of the beats down, correct? Yes.

So, you know, again, we hit everything, every race, everything we could. But Lauren called me into his office, and it had done really well in dress, and everybody was happy. This sketch was going to kind of lead off the show. But he said, well, You hit Jews twice. I said, what do you mean?

He goes, well, you know, it's better to spread it around. Let's hit everybody not pal on any one group. And I said, well, okay, what are you saying? He goes, well, the last one, maybe change that to something else. The punchline at the end, which is act now. Price will never be Jew down so low again. And that had killed in the drafts rehearsal. And so he said, take it out.

And so I'm going to take it out. I'm going to do what Lauren said. So I run down to the studio and the show is going to be starting in about 10 minutes. And I didn't know. I had to come up with something as good as that one or try to get a laugh. I couldn't. I was just pacing trying to figure out what to do and I had to run to get two cards if I thought of something. And I actually had Jim Downey and Robert Smigel come walking up and say, what's going on?

I go, Lauren wants a replacement last bit. They both said, but that one killed. I go, I know, but he wants a replacement. You got an idea? I had the mighty Jim Downey and the mighty Smiley. I go pacing with me, trying to come up with an ending. We're like five minutes. Those guys are total geniuses and I'm like their shadow.

And we're trying to come up with something, trying to come up to something, trying to come up something. And all of a sudden, this giant star, giant star comes, he calls out my name. He goes, hey, Fred, what are you going to do? And I said, I'll be right with you. I'll be right with you, John Doe. And he goes, wait, what's going on there? And I go, the show's going to start in like three minutes now. Can you hang on?

He goes, Hey, you seem to be working on something. I go, yeah, I were trying to come up the joke. And you go, oh, for that cost to make your sketch? And I go, yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you hang on a second? Because I thought I was going to lose Downing and Smigel. And he goes, how about you couldn't buy a cheaper off a drunken Indian.

What the fuck? That was perfect. And I ran the cue cars. They were laughing. Just off top of his head like that. It absolutely killed. One of my favorite beats in that sketch is Sandler playing David, Renner, who's calling to object about the Holocaust, which Heather Lachler's character

talked about, and he's like, I'm really upset, but that real reason he's calling this is to plug his dates at ballets. He's like, I'm upset of the Holocaust, but also, I'm going to be at bally's on, and then he mentions the days. Completely, that's the reason he's calling in. That's hilarious. Because in Potsamaker, I actually went off, the Holocaust actually got a hit. That's what Lauren was talking about. head of locker says this pasta maker you say is this price and this good and this easy use but we've heard that before on TV and it turns out it's all a lie like the Holocaust and

you know that was the one that Warren said well we can keep that one but maybe lose that price never be due down solo again uh Sandler got away with some great stuff really really great stuff and it's I think it's the likeability factor but man was he edgy as hell and it worked for him so well. Can I tell you something? Oh, yeah, please. No, tell me. No, tell me. Oh, just how I, uh, in lunch, Ladyland, uh, which I loved that he did with Farley dance around. Norman McDonald and myself were in that sketch the whole time. We're standing there. I'm garlic bread and Norm was, uh, what was he? And but we were, we were there in the group and we were talks, you know, we were supposed to be just dancing while they're singing that.

And we're talking amongst ourselves about how much Sandler kills, how giant he kills. And I was saying, Norm, you'll never kill like Sandler. That's what we're talking about. So if you ever see that again, Lunch Ladyland, and you see the two of us back there, that's us talking about how much funnier Sandler is and Norm MacDonald is and the entire time. I went to somebody's house for dinner, my wife and I, a few years back, and they said, you work on Saturday Night. Our favorite sketch is Lunch Ladyland. As a matter of fact, we were just watching it before you got here. My daughter here has seen that at least 100 times. She was in seventh grade, you know?

And I go, wow, wow, I'm in that. And I go, what? They really had it queued up and walked into the room. I pointed out of something, the garlic bread. They had seen it that many times, didn't know I was in it, and didn't care when they found out it was in it. It's you, David Mandel, Sarah Silverman, I believe in it. That was put up in January of 94 with Sarah Gilbert and counting crows. Really, really funny.

I was there a dress. That's why I know, because I was there when I was in high school. You know everything. know some things. This is amazing. I don't want your listeners to know that you, you just, it's insane. The retention rate you have or something like that is so incredible. I appreciate it. I wish I could do that with physics or the periodic table, but I'll take it. I'm happy with my life. You know, you mentioned that there was a famous comedian backstage for when Heather Lockler, and this would happen all the time. You'd just be at work and be during the live show or before the live show.

There could be people you just never know who's going to be walking around. When you did the bye-bye sketch, I don't know if you know this, but during B'Bai, in the audience, there was like the third row was Madonna and Tupac Shakur and Madonna's friend, Ingrid, is it Kastanza. So they were watching the blue sketch. Oh, yeah. They were in the audience? Oh, I was in the green room. I was at in high school.

I camped out all night for tickets. They would not let any standbys in for dresser live. And I made friends with this gentleman. named Bill, who was a security guy, and he got me to the green room passes. I was up there with me, my brother, Chris Hildreau, my friend, Dan Brown. And it's on nine, it's right next

to Lauren's office. It's this giant plate of glass, and it's an amazing view of home base and music. And we look out, and, yeah, no, it was, they were in the third row, and then after update, or no, as after Snoop was done with his music, with his song, the three of them got

up, and then they went, you know, when, if somebody gets up from the audience, and they want to go downstairs to the dressing room and music, they have to pass by the green room and then Lauren's office and then go down the stairwell. So, yeah, they passed by and I was like, it's Madonna and Tupac. Yeah, so you were a fan of the show enough that you literally would try to go to seat dress or air, whichever one. I was three and a half hours away in Hershey, Pennsylvania, and I was, yeah, I would try to get in as much. It was just hard.

I mean, they let people in now all the time because they want to ensure that the audiences are good. I mean, they will never let that happen again that they did during some of those rough shows like Sarah, Jessica Parker and REM, just tough shows where they would not let anybody in. And it really did affect the audience. I mean, that's, that's the only reason that they let the 70 people, 60 people in every week is because those are the ones that, I mean, Dana Carvey, and I talked to Smigle about this. When Carvey got his Dana Carvey show on ABC, one of the first things he implemented was no VIP tickets. We're not doing VIP tickets. We're not doing VIP tickets. It's because they were burned so many times. Your pal Rupp Schneider was saying that the shows have been ruined. And I remember Emilio Westiff as in Pearl Jam is a perfect example. Everyone was there for Pearl Jam. They let all the talent people in. And they actually in the cold open have to acknowledge that it's not going to go well.

It's something like, it's like the good news is this. The bad news is live from New York at Saturday night because it's just the dress and it was all vips. And it's just you can't play that. that. I mean, it's, it's really, really tough to play to that. I think that that was not, that was a really, that would not happen now. And it would be interesting in the last 20 years to see if they did not let standbys and what would happen. And I have a feeling there would have been some seasons that the same thing happened by far. That's really interesting, really smart. Yeah, that is smart to do that. Because, you know, comics are famous for when we watch our own, you know, our friends on

stage, if we like something, we'll actually like a huge approval sign is when we go, I like that one, yeah, I would do that joke, that kind of stuff. We're not cracking up. You know, no one's really laughing out loud. That's really smart. You know, that combined with, there was something else about Sari and Live that hit me. I remember when Rob said, I have a chance maybe to get on there if I wrote some sketches that were any good, I studied the, like, I literally got up off the couch and like maybe six

inches from the TV set, staring at it. I don't know why that helps, but I literally would stare at it going, what are they doing here? They're doing something different. Like, what is that? What's the move that S&L does? And one of them, as we talked about earlier, they're not punchline driven, you know, and there's no rim shot type stuff. And Lauren would say, we're not Carol Burnett, you know, and we all love Carol Burnett show. I used to love it as a kid watching it. But we're not doing that. He would say, we're doing something different. And for learned to have the trust in the fact that even though some stuff isn't killing, it's somehow seeping into the culture. It is pretty phenomenal. That's a really good move. I would say pasta

maker, it takes a minute. Belvedere takes a minute, Mr. Belvedere fan club for it to build. Whereas it's a different style with the Carol Burnett stuff. It's very quick, get to the premise and just joke, joke, joke where the Belvedere thing, it's like Victoria Jackson talking about Pepper, Petrich Farm cookies and stuff like it's like where is this thing going but it just builds up the weirdness and it builds up this world and then the payoffs and stuff now I'm really glad you went that way now by utilized I believe it must have been almost everyone in the cast because you had even Tom Davis was in it I don't know you have writers that are in this sketch and I remember if you're in the audience it was all the way back the set was all the way back to the left it killed

I mean, I remember watching that, how was that at the read-through address rehearsal? Was it pretty much the same from read-through? And how did that evolve? And how did you think the sketch went? Because people still quote it to this day. It's really nice. It's really flattering that they do. That was based on, I really am usually kind of either ignored out there or a lot of disdain headed my way when I'm out and about in the public.

I'm an ugly man, Mark. That's not true. But when I got off an airplane flight, I would swear every time the flight attendants would be saying to everybody, bye, and thank you for flying United or whatever. Thank you. That's good. And then I would pass by and they'd be silent.

And then they'd go right back to the person behind me. Yeah, you know, nice to see. Okay, great, great, great. And I noticed that when they said goodbye to me, they said it with a little more venom in her voice, a little bit more like, bye, bye. And it stuck to me, and I swear, Mark, I've kind of heard for years, blah, bye. And by the way, so one thing I do better than Spade, Spade is so much funnier than I ever would be.

But I say the bye a little bit closer to the way I envision it, which is bu, boy, but so I told Spade this all the time. I said, watch a lot of times we'd fly together before we were even on SNL. And I'd say, watch, watch, I'll get off before you, watch. Everyone loves Spade all the time. But with me, they really did do that silent thing. So I was at S&L. I had just flown in from L.A. And I said, hey, Spade, I got to do this bye thing.

I got to do something. I'm going to write it up. Whatever. When I wrote it up, it took maybe 20 minutes. That just flowed because it was my life, basically, being hated by the flight of times. He read that and he made it so damn funny. It was crazy what he put in there and the way he said it, the way he did it.

And then Helen Hunt was the perfect person to do it with because she looks like she has disdain for a lot of the people. They sold it. Yeah. It's funny. You mentioned Tom Davis. I was going to be that guy. We needed extra people.

But I said, I don't know. Maybe I shouldn't be in this case. And Tom Davis is in it. But thank you for saying that. It actually, what I liked about it, I think, is that it was a combination of something kind of slightly interesting, but also it actually did get laughs. It got laughs in the studio. And that was nice to hear.

Bye. Bye absolutely killed. And that season or the, yes, it was that season or the season after that, actually. The season after that was a little bit, it was tough. It was definitely still a transition year. They were still trying to build on the writers. A couple people like Chris Elliott and Jenny Garofalo came in, Loric Heitlinner. They were still trying to figure it out a little bit.

But there were still some amazing sketches. One of my favorite was the Travolta Cold Open. And John Travolta comes in with Seal. I still, to this day, some of my favorite cold opens and some of the people's favorite cold opens are the non-political cold opens. I get that they have to do political cold opens, and I do like them, but once in a while, you don't always, like, Smigel's like not going to phone it in tonight song with Steve Martin is like maybe the greatest cold open ever. Once in a long while, they'll do it. But that Travolta had nothing to do with politics whatsoever. And could you set this up? And was this always going to be the cold open or was this something that a cold open, like a political cold open or something topical didn't play and they moved it up. Oh, that's a good question. I actually don't remember if there was, uh, well, I, yeah, I just don't remember how it came to be, but I do know that once it came to be, it was all out. It took a lot of choreography.

Yeah, the, it's a trifle total as a host, and, you know, I've said this to you before. I've had these weird coincidences in my life, many, many of them. And this one is one of them in that when I first saw Saturday Night Fever, I loved that movie, too. I saw that one 20 times in Spokane, Washington. And I would drive 104 miles to see that movie. and 104 miles back to where I was in Montana at this point in my life. And I would try to walk like Travolta. I tried to be cool because I was the guy that got the bub by.

I wanted to be the guy I got, hi, sir, but I wasn't. But I wanted to be like Travolta. And I wanted to walk like him. In the opening scene of Saturday Night Fever, when he's carrying a paint can and you have that song playing and he's a cool stud move, I wanted to be like that.

But there he is hosting, and he's a nice guy. And he came in with two writers that are friends of his and friends of mine. They did stand up. And we all talked, and everybody got along, and it was really cool. But I actually threw out something to John's Travolta. John, he's my friend. I call him JT. I said something, we should do something with that walk, because I allowed us to walk.

And we went, oh, yeah, yeah, whatever. And we moved on. But then when it came together, it was about the very cold open, and the elevator door opens, and the feet come off the elevator, and that walk happens as. and the audience will know that Travolta is a host, so they're figuring that's the Travolta feat and the song,

Staying Alive is playing. And it just follows the feet and him as he's walking to the studio to open the show and do the monologue. And the bit, the joke is that he stops to use the men's room. And when he goes into the men's room, the music stops and the camera just waits for him to come out. And when he comes out,

it picks up again, the song plays and goes, and he goes into the studio. But I got to be the guy who walks out of the bathroom first that the cameraman mistakenly thinks it's Travolta. I get to walk like John Travolta. Then the camera pans up and sees it's me. And the camera's horrified. That's me and not Travolta.

And I'm horrified. The cameras in my face. And then it recycles back. And then Travolta comes out. And the show continues. Man, I got to tell you, Mark, that's another example where I idolized that walk. And there I am having Travolta telling me how to. walk like that and then the bathroom

of the men's room that he came out of that was actually a broom closet so we're standing in there on the live show in front of 8 million people and he's in there saying remember you just keep your feet like this you keep your feel like this and keep it be like this in the sense that you're me now go that was great that was so great that kind of stuff I didn't

need to be paid I would have paid them to be there at S&L I swear and it did kill I got to say my little five seconds appearance as John called The sketch was so funny and it's one of those things with music rights It's not online that I know of because, you know, the BG is expensive. But it is, I remember the beat where Travolta had to actually, he had to go get the restroom

key from the page and then he gets the key. And then he has to, he's late. He has monologue. I think Joe Dixot is like one minute and he's, then he's running. And then it starts that the music starts fast forwarding. And really, and it was just such a great, great piece. That whole show was at really, really strong. David Mandela at the very end wrote this piece where they all do.

a grace music good night thing for good nights. And it was just, I thought that that was maybe the strongest episode that year. Another one that you did that year was David Hyde Pierce. That would have been January of 95, I think, when you did Little Women. I still hear people talk about that sketch. Can you set it up and just talk about it? I mean, Farley was just so funny and just everybody played it very straight and very well. It was definitely memorable. Thanks for saying that. And before I said it up, let me just say, will you marry me? man. It's unbelievable.

I may have to go to Utah, but Christine signs off on it. Do we have to sign a pre-up? Yeah, I used to also tell you, listen to your wife, how she is technologically very, very adept. She's very smart. She does everything with the Carson podcast. They've been so lucky.

We both married well. Nice to know that you weren't as great at tech. I'm not, man, my bad. Anyway, so that's actually interesting you bring up. Little Women, my wife and I went and saw the movie Little Women and then walking out, I thought of that sketch, literally walking through the audience, because, I mean, walking out of the theater, because it's a pretty simple premise, but oh, my God, Chris Farley just kills when he does that kind of thing.

It's just about the people talking the way they did in Puritan, sort of New England. It's like, well, you're plum pudding ever so scrumptious, that kind of stuff. And when Farley falls to the ice, because they're all ice skating, he's just screaming like modern day teenager would. Like, oh, boy, not you war. And it destroyed. And what was kind of funny about this one, first of all, it did kill. And that was fun. That was fun to hear those laughs because Farley really brought it home, of course.

He's the best yeller I've ever seen anywhere on TV. But also, what was kind of funny about that is he destroyed, like I had never seen him destroy up to that. point. And I had two different cast members come up to me and say, I want to be the guy who screams next time. I want to be able to fall through you guys. How simple is that? You just get to scream a bunch of curse words and kill. And it is true. It was an easy sketch to do. But Farley is amazing. It's incredible. When people have that certain thing, whatever it is, you can't, like we talked once on the phone about this. Hollywood used to call it it, the it factor, because they didn't know what to call it. There's just a certain charisma, a certain tone they have, a certain

look they have. They'll be stars. And you can know it ahead of time sometimes. But Farley is one of those guys where everybody who heard him talk and saw him knew that he was going to be huge. And he was. He became huge. And I got to tag along on that thing. I got to ride some coattails. That's for sure. It was very quick. He was hired in the fall of 1990. And sometimes it takes people a while to really get over. And he did that. And I know some people like Chris Rock, not the biggest band of it, but I think overall it's much beloved was the Patrick Swayze, Chippendale sketch, which was when Patrick Swayze hosted in Farley and him were Chippendale's dancers. That was, I mean, that was only like maybe like six, seven episodes into his tenure.

And I mean, he was already really funny and stuff. But like, it happened really quick. And he definitely right away was good at that show. And I mean, I've talked to people that worked with him in Chicago, and he was just, I think you're right, he had it. I did want to mention what Ian McStone Graham had told you. Didn't Ian, he made a diagram when you, because you would write these really funny sketches for Farley. And then Ian is a joke. He gave you a diagram. And what was that? Yeah. Ian's, Ian's a great guy. A really, really good guy. And it hurt my feelings deep to you. They did this. I'm joking. But it was so true is after one of the sketches where Farley falls through the ice in that case,

Little Women, or in the case of like the George Clooney show, Farley is the one that gets wet when the whale jumps in the water and Clooney stays immaculate. It was Farley screaming that would kill and Ian made a chart. We were just sitting around the table. All of us were working on whatever show and all of a sudden I see Ian push a piece of paper towards me and I'm like, what is this going to be? And I grabbed the paper and I looked at it and Ian had drawn a chart that was Fred Wolf writing for Chris Farley. And it was

a very, it was graphs of three graphs of is Farley whispering, talking normal or screaming. The dial was set on screaming. And the next one is farly moist, is Farley slightly wet, is Farley soaking wet. And the dial set on soaking wet. And there's

one more too, which we can't say is Farley screaming what word, this word, or this word. And it was always that word that he would scream in tomboy and Blacksheet. But that was so right, so dead on, so perfect, because it's all you had to do is set the dials for Farley and he'd take the rest of the way for you. You were in a sketch in the background. You're sitting next to Lou Morden. I wouldn't know if you wrote it. And there was another Farley physical beat

which he played Andrew Giuliani, Rudy Giuliani's son, a Yankees game. I think Kelsey Grammer might have been hosting. I don't know if you wrote that or not, but he kept getting hit by the ball. The ball kept hitting Farley as Andrew Giuliani. I don't know if you wrote. that or not, but you were in it. Maybe not. If you were in it, probably not, because the writers normally have to be on call and stuff, but I didn't know if you, if you contributed to that. Pretty sure. It was Smigel wrote that. Oh, really? Pretty sure, yeah. I think it was, it probably was Smigel. I know that that episode he was there. He did an inhibited dance party. That, but it makes sense, Smigel. I mean, he just, I mean, unbelievable guy in terms of the

but you're saying he was at Conan at that point, though, but he was at Conan, but he was there that night. Yeah, and he wrote a sketch that was really, really funny. I'm just looking at the stuff that made me laugh. I remember when I was my senior year of high school, you wrote a sketch for Patrick Stewart when he hosted with, it was Salton Peppa. It was this really funny sketch. And it was after update, which is a little bit harder back then, especially to get the laughs. But it was Norm McDonald, I remember, was maybe the person that made me laugh the most. But can you set up this sketch and what was like working with Patrick Stewart and anything that stands out from that show. It's funny. I don't know if it's my memory. I don't know what's going on. The show

sort of blend together because a lot of times the sketch, you'll submit the sketch to read through on a Wednesday. And for whatever reason, it might go over, it might not go over. It might not be right. It might not fit or it might get cut or something like that. So you would end up submitting sketches sometimes three times, you know, sometimes even four times throughout the season. And I can't remember if I had a sketch on during the Patrick Stewart show. I'm not sure. if I did I don't remember that was the devil sketch it was um Patrick Stewart was the devil and it was um this sketch where at least norm told me that you wrote it I thought where norm the Patrick Stewart is the devil he's like you were going to like punishing norm and all these guys in hell but it's like

what are you going to do is there but norm and all them are like what are you going to do to us we're already in hell and he's like I'm going to turn you into a monkey and he's like well oh good luck with that that's going to be really really bad did you did you write that it's funny norm and I We shared an office and we wrote a bunch of stuff. My Lord, was he funny? And, yeah, now that you say it, wrote it, and I remember we had crazy stuff in there. Obviously, Norm could be, you know, we'd push the limits. And so we'd weed it out together.

There's some stuff that didn't pass muster with the censors and so forth. That's hilarious. Now that you bring it back to me, yes. And Norm's stuff was really funny on that. That sketch made me laugh. You're the one of the guys. You're the only guy who ever told me this, speaking of sketches that get on and don't get on and audience reaction and so forth, is when I wasn't brought back the one year after I did the guest writing stint there, they did a sketch of mine anyway, which I'd send out. Rob probably gave it to Danny or something like that. And it was called Stu Brankouts, the sketch was.

This is another example of these weird, amazing coincidences in my life, I think, is that in that sketch, Stup Rankouts, this is about two guys sitting on the steps of New York City. and just insulting people as they walk by. And a taxi driver was my favorite movie of all time at that point, and I put lines from taxi driver into that sketch on purpose. One day, a real rain is going to come and watch all this come off the streets, and you're the scum. It was one of the lines I put in there. And I wasn't there at Estnell, but Joe Pesci was the host of the show,

and Schneider calls me between dress and Eric to say, that sketch you wrote, Stoop Rankouts, It's on with Joe Pesci. It just went to dress. And guess who is in that sketch? So I had those taxi driver lines in that sketch written. I had written a year before this was happening. And Martin Scorsese and De Niro came by to visit Joe Pesci,

and they jumped in to that sketch. And they were saying those lines from taxi driver that I wrote in there as an homage to taxi driver. I had those two people saying those lines. It's insane. It was amazing to me. Uh, something happened where the sketch actually couldn't air for a variety of reasons, but you're the one who told me they did air eventually. And I had no idea that it did. Did you see it? I sent it to you. It was, um, yeah, 10 to one sketch. I think with, it was Pesci. And that was, uh, I think it was Joe Pesci and spin doctors. And that would have been in, um, 92 in the fall. And that was, uh, Pesci and Rob Schneider. And then I remember, who is it? It's two people that walk by then that start doing the insults back to, um, I I think saying well, really, right? Yeah, yeah.

Yes, yes, yes. And they start doing it back. And that was going to be De Niro and Scorsese. That's the thing. It was those two guys. And Mark, it's amazing. And then plus what else is amazing is that you are, you told me that that sketch actually did air. I love it because it did.

And I saw it. It was fun. I think it was one of those things where maybe, especially De Niro back then might have got in Colt doing a sketch. I think that they did a cameo backstage where he didn't really have to do anything. They were definitely, I think they're. for that so they might have because sometimes i mean between dress and life i'll give you an example i was at a dress rehearsal and um they were bringing sandler back he had left the showney that was coming in to

do um dip doodle what his song on update and it was a big surprise and at dress they had you actually as you were a future player they had you playing yourself a dress and the joke was is that you were doing this update piece that was going nowhere and norm's like let's now let's get a real um a real somebody a real comedian in and they bring in sandler and that was dress and for whatever reason i loved it For the live show, they took you out of it, and they just had, and Norm was just like everyone, Adam Sandler, and he played it. But I loved that. I wish sometimes they would, they would just keep things that are fun like that when they had you doing the update thing. I don't know if you have any. That was a gosh, Tom Arnold Tupac. That was a long time ago. That was 96, I believe. That was for time. That was cut for time. Just to get to Sandler. A lot of times running over or, you know, we might be 20 seconds over, 30 seconds over or whatever.

so we have to just kind of thinn out the herd there and I got thinned. But yeah, that's that's very funny. Man, when I saw Sandler there in the hallway when he came back to visit and I was still there, it was so great to see. That was such a great cast. I mean, that 90s was amazing. And the cast that came in also was great. It really was an amazing collection of funny people.

Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. They all had that hit factor. It's really wild. It is. Yeah, looking at the list of people you got to work with in the host, it is pretty unbelievable.

You know, that thing I told you where I was staring at the TV, it was like six inches away from the TV set. It's funny. You mentioned it. The show I was staring at was that cold open, Steve Martin, seeing, not the cold open of the monologue, seeing, that was what I was staring at, thinking, okay, I get this, I know why this is this funny. And then that's where I saw Farley, and I go, who the hell is that?

Dang, that guy's funny. And all he says, I'm not going to get drunk anymore or whatever it is, he says. And I go, oh, that guy's a star. But anyway, I was staring at that TV and just seeing what is different about it. It was a Jack Candy sketch that made me say, okay, no one else is doing Jack Handy sketches. This is amazing. This is great. He is, by the way, one of the coolest best way, he was ever.

He lives down in Santa Fe, New Mexico. And I go and visit him and go by his house and I sit there. For every single time I've gone by his house, I spend the first. hour just gone. How the hell are you so damn funny? I'm being totally serious. And his next-door neighbor back in the day, back in the 70s was Steve Martin before he was doing stand-up. He started doing stand-up, Steve Martin did, and then Jack Handy found out that his next-fair neighbor he talked to all the time in an apartment was doing stand-up by seeing Steve Martin on the Tonight Show before he was wearing the suit, by the way, the white suit. And so he comes back home and Jack Handy said,

you didn't tell me you were a stand-up comedian. And Steve said, yeah. And so Steve eventually helped Jack Handy get on that SNL. Yeah, Jack Handy's stuff is unbelievable. I wish, I sent him an email, and he got back to me. He was very polite, but he doesn't really do appearances or interviews too much. Certainly not something like this. Like, he's never been on fly on the wall with Spade and Carvey and stuff, and I'm sure

they've asked him. I know Seth Myers' favorite writer, I believe, is Handy. He was very nice to get back to me. My favorite sketch he wrote was this, I don't know if you've seen it. I don't know if it's online or not. It's called Johnny Canal, and it was John Malkovich hosted the show, and he plays this frontiersman, and he's pitching this thing to where it's like every city, I guess, every town in the country is connected by a canal.

He's proposing this, like, as a frontiersman. And it's just like all this map of just like everything's connected with canals. It's the most ridiculous premise, and he has all these, like, fake commercials, like, sponsored by and all these things. And it's just, it was one of those things where I, Andy Breckman told me Jim Downey helped out with it a little bit too, but I mean, that guy's mind. Yeah, no kidding. Talking to Smigel as well, they're all in, all, and incomplete all of that guy.

Spade called me for, to get Jack Henry's number to do fly in the wall. And, uh, because space says, I was having trouble getting through what's going on here. And I go, well, he's got a landline. And so, uh, that's why he doesn't necessarily answer a landline with no answer machine. He won't mind me saying this, but I go by all the time. It's a three bedroom house, I think. in Santa Fe, and my wife grew up in Santa Fe, so we're there. Anyway, we popped by, and a rat was in his house in Jack Haney's house, and he starts feeding. They're animal lovers.

His wife works for SPCA or one of those. The rat kept coming in, and finally they just said, well, you know what, we're just going to give this bedroom to the rat, and it's literally the rat's bedroom because they don't want to kick it out, they don't want to kill it, and it's basically there living in the house with them. My daughters didn't want to go into the room or the house. For real, they were too young. They were scared of the rat. But that's handy. And my God, is he funny? Oh, my God, Evan. He wrote a sketch called Scuffy the Rat. It was a VHS thing that I don't think ever aired on anything. But it was like a home. It was like a pet rat. And Andrea Martin was, I believe in the sketch. It was all taped. But that thing, Coach Dobbs, I mean, it's one of the

funniest things that I don't think that ever aired on network television. That guy's absolutely unbelievable. I'm glad that you're friends with them. I'm glad, you know, I didn't want to ask you when you were there that year. Back in 1996, this was, I can't believe, 28 years ago, New York Magazine did this cover story Saturday Night Dead. Chris Smith had access to Saturday Night Live unprecedented for three months and then wrote this cover story where there were a lot of people on the show. I've talked to them that felt betrayed by what was written. What stands out about that? I know the show was very upset with it. I have briefly did talk to Chris and he said, this is, this is what I observed. A lot of people thought it was a hit piece. The show was

definitely having some tough time. Smigel tried to explain to Chris Smith and he told me, you know, it's a transition. It's like any sports team. You know, it's like I left, um, Handy, Jack Handy left the turners. It's just going to take a little bit of time. But that really wasn't included much in the article. It definitely just seemed that it was, um, overwhelmingly that it was a dark negative piece. Do you have any recollection what stands out? Sure. Yeah. I'm, Lauren had said well before this guy came by, he had told me once about how there's cycles of anything, like you just said, sports teams is a good metaphor for analogy, is that he would say, you know how many times I've heard Saturday Night Live, no, Saturday Night Dead.

I've heard it, and I'll be hearing it again. He knew that kind of thing happened and so forth. And this guy came in and he definitely had the agenda for sure. There was no way it was just going to be a objective geek. absolutely not and I could tell by the questions he asked he he would ask each person and can I talk to you later this week or whatever and we all scheduled different times to talk to him and with me I kind of bailed that for a few minutes because every question was slanted it was just that thing so how do you feel you know that kind of thing how do you feel when

you see people getting sketches that aren't this or when you know that the sketch has something that's not really it's a little too juvenile how do you feel about that And it was just such leading questions, so obviously going to be a hit piece. And the guy just had an air about him that was just not a good one. My father left our family, and my mother was a single mother with four kids. And my father wasn't the best guy in the world. And I kind of can see it right away when somebody is put, you know, I look at them, I'll hear them talk, and I'll say, okay, you're like my dad, and I'll move on.

And this guy, I was warning people, he was going to say some bad stuff. I didn't know he was going to say that bad. It was all, you know, that was rough because it wasn't true. There was definitely at least a couple of things. I was told by people on the show, producers and other people that were not true in there, in the article. But it did, you know, it was pre-internally, I know that the show was very fearful of it. And it caused a lot of waves at the time. But it was definitely one of those things he was there for three weeks.

And then, for three months, rather, and then the show comes back and you're there the following year. And it's just like, it's exactly what Smigel basically said is we're, you know, it's going to take a while to rebuild and suddenly the following year, it's like Will Ferrell is in the building. And, you know, it's sherry O'Terry and it definitely, it just goes through cycles. Yeah, it's, yeah. And it's true. And also, like right now, I'm looking at the background of your apartment. And to me, I grew up in your city and you're in Queens. I don't know if I should say it or not.

It's okay. Yeah. And I've been to Hershey, PA, which I love. Okay, now, I love Hershey, PA. I did the tour of the Hershey plant. I could say bad stuff about the Hershey plant if I wanted to, and I could say good stuff, or I could say a mix of stuff. I actually love Hershey's bars, and that's why I went to see the tour.

I love that your street lamps there are Hershey Kisses, you know, the shape of Hershey Kisses. I could say anything bad I wanted. And that's what this guy did. He just came in with the agenda, and he was set on saying, certain things that may seem true to the viewer. For instance, the women, that women were sort of kept out of sketches was absolutely false, beyond all false. It's just insanely false, but that was part of the agenda that he wanted to get out there

is that there's, you know, we hired more women, but at the same time, they were never kept out of sketches. They were encouraged and they were super funny. And I loved the women at work there. And I was really, really sad that he would go after the show for supposedly keep them back because there's no way that was happening. It was just, I think it was just tough for a lot of people that were there. Chris Elliott would echo that.

Michael McKeon was getting his sketches on that he was writing, but I just know for overall, it was just a rebuilding season. And then you come back to the show and it is all they brought in. I think the only people that they brought back writing wise was at the top of the season, was you, Steve Corrin. There must have been one or two other people, but not many people. I mean, it was all pretty much new hires. It was McKay, Adam McKay, and they brought Hugh Fink to write for Spade.

And then they brought in Paula Pell, Cindy Cappanara. I'm trying to think of who they were, but there were Colin Quinn, of course. But they were pretty much almost all new people. That's my recollection. Were you surprised they brought you back? I'm glad they brought you back. You wrote some great pieces. when that season, we'll get to them.

But the only people I remember might have been you and Corinth that they actually did bring back. Yeah, and there's a few others, but things were sort of colliding in that people, cast members left on their own volition as part of that whole changeover, too.

And then writers that were associated with them would kind of move on and continue writing for them, the stars and stuff. In other words, it wasn't all about changing unwillfully, I guess. but I was actually walking with Lauren in Beverly Hills before that season started. And like we'd do these two hours walk.

And by the way, I love this thing. I told this to many people is that when Lauren and I would first start walking through Beverly Hills, I was always amazed that I was hanging with Lauren. But he would walk on the sidewalk and I would walk to the left of the sidewalk over tree roots and duck under tree branches to keep the conversation, let him talk. let him say what he's going to say. And as the years kind of wore on, I got a little more confident. I got a strip of sidewalk, but I never took over the sidewalk. Smart man. Yes, right? But it was so great. When he asked me if I would be the head writer, I had never done this before, ever in my life.

I said, yeah, would you give me a future player? And he said, done. I'll never forget that. And I don't ask stuff like that. And I got it. smart man to ask 100%. I did just remember Tim Hurley. He was another one. I think it was three of you were brought back. And then for update, Frank Sebastiano and Ras Ebrash were brought in. And I'm sure there's a few other people that I'm from Norm Hescock actually is another

one, I think, that maybe stayed over. But there weren't a lot, is my point. It was mostly new people that they were bringing in. You're right. A lot of new people. Real quick, a Frank Sebastian, start really quick. He was brought in. He was moving furniture in New Jersey.

that was his job. He submitted jokes, and Norman McDonald read the jokes. And I read the jokes too. Norm showed him to me. And Downey, we read those jokes, and they were so damn funny. I go, who is this kid? And we're bringing them in. And there's Frank Sebastian, and he shows up.

So now I pass him in the hallway, never met him before. And he theoretically doesn't know who I am, but I guess he did. And I pass them in the hallway and I make a joke. And if they get the joke, great. And if they don't get the joke, they might be mad at me to the rest of their lives. but as I walk past Frank, I go, I'm Frank Sebastiano. I write for Norm MacDonald. And he said immediately, without a pause, he goes,

I'm Fred Wolf getting choked by Frank Sebastian. And I laugh so freaking hard. I swear to you, I laughed for maybe 30 minutes. Couldn't stop laughing, by myself laughing. And I told everybody how funny this guy was. And my God, how do you say it that fast? How do you say it that quick and with a smile? And I wasn't pissed at all that he just, he just criniscides the head right?

He said he's going to choke him, but that was a great ad. And Ross State Patch 2, by the way, those are some great writers for update. Now, you're saying, were they brought in that year or were the year before? They were brought in that year with McKay and they were. I'm also blanked on Jim Downey because, I mean, I just remembered they removed him from the top producer position. And they did bring him back to do Norm's update for that year. So it was an amazing group of people. They brought in a bunch of new people.

Our conversation just got cut off, unfortunately, due to tech issues. Fred and I are planning on doing another episode. I'm excited to cover Fred's time as headwriter on SNL and so much more. Thank you for listening. Be sure to check out latnighter.com for all your late night news present and past. We'll see you next week. Thank you. I'm going to be.

I'm going to be. We're going to be able to be. Thank you.