Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Hank Gallo

Episode Date: March 11, 2025

Hank Gallo discusses producing and working with guests on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart and Craig Kilborn including Betty White , Ed McMahon, and Rodney Dangerfield, as well his work on Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher, and more.

Hi, I am Mark Malkoff and welcome to Inside Late Night, presented by latenighter.com. Today's guest is Hank Gallo, who discusses producing and working with guests on the Daily Show with both John Stewart and Craig Kilbourne, as well as working on politically incorrect with Bill Maher and much more. Now it's time to go inside late night. Hank Gallo, thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. I'm fascinated with your career. I do want to start at the Daily Show because this is late night theme, and we'll go back. So you were there from the beginning.

I mean, people don't remember a lot of people, especially younger people. They don't know who Craig Kilborton was, but this was a show that had no studio audience for a while, at least a few months. And you were there from the beginning. What was that experience like? And what was your title on the show? we called me the studio producer because I was basically in charge of everything that happened in the studio

whenever a guest came in whenever a correspondent was appearing on the show that was all under my purview it was cool I mean it was fun let's face it it was a crapshoot we didn't I'll never forget A. Whitney Brown at our first staff meeting

and I had known him a little bit and he turned to me and he said, Hank, we're on a sinking shit. And I was like, great attitude, Whitney. And actually he was on a sinking ship, but the show did fine. Why did he say that? A lot of times it's interesting

when the things aren't going right in the beginning and most of the time on a show they don't go right. There's always going to be problems. Was there anything specific that he cited or you could see? Absolutely not. He was just kind of a negative person. Got that.

Listen, it wasn't a home run from the beginning, but it was a damn good triple. I couldn't believe how over he was. I mean, I wouldn't say until the studio audience came in, and that was, it's unbelievable to think about that there was no audience. They were trying to do Sports Center, and they were reluctant to do the audience, and apparently it was Doug Herzog's idea.

and it worked and it just this whole energy and it wasn't it was like less than 50 people or maybe it was 50 people around 50 that guy was so over and it was not the sport that you know he's from ESPN it was this this entire audience i just remember people in college especially just loving the the show very early on yeah well i mean let's face it craig spoke in the vocabulary of the time, which was sarcasm. He was a master at it. Unfortunately, it was his only vocabulary. You never really felt a sincere moment from him. It really worked in terms of that character. Maybe it was him. I don't know. He replicated it on the late show and certainly made it work. I want to talk about the early bookings. I know that you would greet the guest and work with the guest.

Were you booking the guests early on? Yes, I watched. I booked and produced every. guests the first five years. It's amazing to look back at the people that were on the first 50 or 100 episodes. I mean, I'm looking right now and I wanted to ask you about some of them, but it's like in terms of comedy of Phyllis Diller, you have Joan Rivers, you have Cleese, John Cleese, you have Rodney Dangerfield. What was Rodney like? He was a trip.

His people were reluctant for him to do the show because we were the new guys on the Doc, but I knew his daughter, who I had worked with on other shows, who was a wonderful woman, and I called her, and I said, I hate to do this to you, but we really want your dad. If you could put in a good word, and she did, and I got a call back from her, and she said, you'll be getting a call from his people. He's going to do it. When the night came and Ronnie's walking down the hallway, I greeted him by saying, Mr. Dangerfield, that's as much as I got out of my mouth when his wife, Joan, was walking with him and said, this is Hank. It's Melanie's friend. Be nice. And I couldn't crack up, but that's really what I wanted to do. And how was he

to deal with? He was terrific. He was terrific. And it was a pleasure. having in there. It was a pleasure. I mean, I called Joan Rivers' manager when we first started up to ask her to come on the show, and she had a new manager. And this woman said, no, it's not the kind of thing Joan would want to do. And I said, well, just let her know that it was me calling. Because I had known, Joan, over the years, I had covered comedy for the New York Daily News. I brought her on to politically incorrect earlier with Bill Maher. And I got a call back in about five minutes from Jones manager and said, all right, she's going to do it, but I have one question.

I said, okay, wow. She goes, who the hell are you? Comedy Central was still early, but I mean, politically incorrect. I'm really, was it Dorothy Melvin by chance was with her at the time? Yes, it was. Okay. Yeah. I mean, she was Jones assistant for a long time during the.

whole Johnny Carson Rivers, I don't, I'm going to call it a debacle, my words, but when it was a debacle. It was. So, um, so Ms. Rivers came on the show and I'm sure she was, she was wonderful. I mean, it's Joan Rivers. She was unbelievable. She delivers. Total pro. That woman was a total pro. I will always say that about her. I was reading a newspaper article and they were following you and Madeline Smithburg and people around the show and kill born on an average day. you needed a guess the next day and all you had was Wink Mardindale secured and you didn't want Wink on. I think he did the show eventually, but it was like basically it said that you said, well, if we have him on, I know that his wife dated Elvis, but luckily Madeline pulled out the John Stewart card, even though John, you know, I don't, back then he was known, but only, I think, to younger people, but she's like I worked with John and got John to come in.

Would that happen a lot that you would just have to go through your own Rolodex maybe? Oh, sure. Hey, listen, I went through my Rolodex. God knows how many times trying to fill it, that spot. I mean, again, we were new and nobody knew who we were or what the tone of our show was. But it was, I've got to say, it was really fun getting that show up and running. What was the logic getting Mary Kay plays to be the first guest? She, you know, she did Carson's show a number of times. Very talented actress, but for somebody, you know, like Doug Herzog knows a lot of people, you know a lot of people to put somebody, and she did host Saturday Night Live, I believe, in the 70s, but to have somebody that's maybe not identified as the biggest star or somebody in comedy, what was the logic? The logic was simple. She was available. She had a small independent movie coming out that was actually rather good. and I knew she would deliver I knew that she would lay the game on air and she was lovely

you have to remember in those days we just had to have people in and yes she was the first person who said yes but then I had a piece of tape to show to other publicists look look how respectful we were That is so true. Even early on, I know when Jimmy Fallon got his 1230s show, I'm not going to mention names, but I was told that there was a really successful A-list star and their publicist said, we want to, we want to see videotape before.

And they were set to host Saturday Night Live. And I guess the SNL people heard about that. It's all Lorne Michaels and emailed this person, A-list person's publicist and said, we want to see videotape of your client before they host SNL, just kind of like some sort of dig. It's like, you know who this guy is, but I'm just saying if it's Jimmy Fallon and, you know, he was so established for that to happen. Yeah, it just takes a little bit of time. Listen, to get a celebrity on a show, your biggest obstacle is their publicist who thinks that they are just as important as the celebrity that they represent. And they will make you jump through hoops for no particular reason other than they can. During five questions, which was Crick Hillbhorn's signature piece, he said that he would do this at bars just to kind of meet ladies sometimes.

I'm pretty good at telling, I think, when I'm watching these shows, what is real and what's manufactured. But I saw numerous celebrities that looked not happy with some of the questions. Did that ever happen? Did they know all the questions in advance? No, they knew one would be a geography question. One would be a personal history question. We wanted that surprise. We wanted a little bit of surprise.

And if you had a good sense of humor, which many people did, they did great on that. But a few people were a little upset. Who were some people, if you don't mind saying, that weren't thrilled with how that went? Oh, God. I can't even remember it. One person just that was the most memorable, and there was actually a journalist following you and Craig Kilbourne around this day and talking about the backstory was Mike Myers is on and he's plugging a huge movie and one of the questions was Canada. What went wrong? And the studio audience

pops. I mean, it's just so much laughter and it's classic Kilbourne. And they mentioned you were the one in the article. You were back with Kilbourne working with him for a half hour on all the word for word for the five questions and you were the one that came up with that line. Yes, I did. Mike, as wonderful a sense of humor as he had, had no sense of humor apparently about Canada. So he got a little flustered by that and started answering honestly about what a good country it is. It's like, oh, for the sake, just lighten up. You know, yeah he had a he had a smile on his on his face at first because everyone else is laughing and then he was going into the history uh but it was definitely interesting they mentioned also in that

article that kreskin was backstage and he was really nervous about the five questions i mean that definitely is something and i don't think it's i think it said he didn't know didn't do great with some of them and stuff i mean he can do the card trick and got that right um whatever he did with craig on air that's interesting that publicist would be okay with that or let it go, because that's kind of terrifying for certain people. Well, sure, and, you know, and again, at the very beginning, the publicist didn't know we were going to do it. I give you a lot of credit, because normally on these shows, it's beat by beat,

scripted, and the fact that you were able to do that, and still, I mean, the guest list just kept building and building in terms of star power. I did want to mention, because I thought it was a little highly unusual, just talking to to Madeline Smithburg and talking to you and other people. Craig Kilbourne was basically a comedy writer's dream because he was so hands off on the writing. You handed him something. He would pretty much read it. So I was really surprised. And first of all, would you agree with that one, too? It said in that article that he was with you for a half hour going over those five questions. How often would he be involved with the writing, if any? It was marginal.

I mean, I would go in there with a bunch of questions and basically say, are which five do you want and we would just narrow it down and then every now and then he would have a suggestion many of them i just couldn't let him get away with i mean i love inappropriate talk show hosts but some of these questions were so inappropriate and you can't insult people after you've invited them into your living room people came to expect that it um somewhat but Did you have a standards and practice person on set, or did they get everything after it aired or did they get things in advance or how did that work for something like that? The standards and practice people would always get the entire script beforehand. And yes, they had notes, especially about the headlines.

On the guest segment, they pretty much trusted me and didn't. bud in much. Was there ever a guest or publicist that asked you not to air something after it was filmed? Yes. That happened. Who was that? Oh God. I can now neither remember Peter Krauser. That was the star. He was the star at that time of the funeral home director on like HBO or showtime. I can't remember there was it what is it called six feet under is that the show it's feet under yes and he came on and he and john had a great time peter mentioned to john the following morning he had to be on live with regis and kaffy lee and john and he had a lot of fun making fun of And the publicist went ballistic.

I had to, oh my God, that was a lot of fast footwork. You need to keep the relationship. I would think so. At the same time, you have John Stewart, who has the final say. How did that go? Was there enough stuff to cut it out and still make it work? Or did it air? We redid it the next day.

He agreed to come back the next night. We redid it. What did you air that night then? Because normally it airs, you do the show and it airs that night. Well, we did a lot of times. I came up with a strategy. We could not compete with Letterman. We couldn't compete with Honin.

And they had a policy that if you do their show, you couldn't do another show. So I came up with, let's pre-tape someone. We'll tape it with Monday's audience. but air it on Tuesday. All that meant is John had to change his jacket and tie. That's a great idea. And so this way we were able, if Sandra Bullock was doing Letterman on Monday, we'd air on Wednesday or Thursday.

I was going to ask, when did Craig Hillborn was known for those tapings to, during the commercial breaks, and people would mock him later, but he would have a handheld mirror. that he would just stare at himself. Did that start right away, or was that just a progression? Oh, no, that started from day one, from day one. As a matter of fact, if I remember correctly, we had to flip this set before we started shooting because he walked in and apparently, I can't remember if he thought his left side

or his right side was the better side. But at first, apparently the studio was set up to shoot his band side. Sounds like Streisand is like very controlling of what side. So that was very, yeah, the same type of thing. But he couldn't sing people. Yes, he tried so hard. What would he be doing all day since he really wasn't involved that much in the writing or just would basically read what people would?

I'm guessing he wasn't Johnny Carson would be working from Malab. or Bel Air, wherever he was living and then come in, you know, three or four hours before him. But I'm guessing Craig, like most of the host was there most of the day. He was watching sports for a large part of the day, sporting news. We had a head writer on our show at the time who used to chide him by saying, Craig, every now and then, try reading the front of the newspaper. But that was, that didn't happen very often. it is one of those things that if somebody watched the show, they really couldn't tell.

I know that there was, if somebody's not paying attention in the news, this is going to happen. If you're comfortable talking about this, there was a world leader with a very unusual name that. Dave Letterman actually would make fun of this name just because I think for a comedy host or a comedian that the name of the leader who had the same name twice, just, you know, the rolls off the tongue to maybe get a laugh. But can you talk about this? Yes, it was Secretary General of the United Nations, Butros, Butros, Boutros Ghali. Now, Dave was making fun of Boutros, Boutros from a knowing place. He knew what he was making fun of. When Craig first saw Boutros, Boutros Ghaly's name in the script,

he thought it was a typo and that somebody had repeated Boutros by mistake. And it became something. of an argument and he kept saying I don't think I have to say that name twice and it's like yeah you do it's his name and we had a head riddle

Liz Winstead who co-created the show in the room who when Craig yet again said I don't have to say it twice or why do I have to say it twice Liz yelled

for the same reason you have to say Duran twice. It's the name. And then he got it after that. Pretty much. I interviewed a lot of comedians and, you know, they talk about sometimes that they've had a big break.

Some people, you know, it's just little things here and there and they can't point to the biggest break. A lot of the Carson comedians would say Jim, Jim McCauley. But in terms of this individual who struggled for years and as a performer without getting a break and didn't get famous until he was in his, I think, early 50s, this was the biggest break of his entire career and made him. And that was, you're doing, I was told, which is bringing in Lewis Black. Yeah.

Well, Liz and I had spoken about it. And we wanted a voice that was different from any other voice on the Daily Show. And there, if you want a different voice, that is Lewis Black. And we both made that decision. And so we brought him on. And for five years, I produced his segment. And he was just a joy to work with. He was at the West Bank Cafe all the time, just being the host for years.

And, you know, he was doing a lot of theater and stuff. But just I remember seeing him at Stand Up, New York, maybe a year before he got the daily show and just laughing so hard. And I'm like, I can't believe nobody really knows who this guy is. and then him getting the Daily Show. And now theaters around the, I mean, the country. I mean, it's amazing what, and I know you did a book with him, but just the, what he actually became. So I was an intern on, and then I was hired part time on a TV show called Spin City, which I know you booked a lot.

That was Michael J. Foxx's sitcom on, we filmed at Chelsea period. Well, they were New York acts. They were New York actors. Exactly. I could call. There was an actor. I don't think I should probably say who it was, but there was. was an actor on, a bunch of the actors were guests with Craig Kilbourne, but one of the actors

told me afterwards, um, he went on the show and got lots of laughs, but Craig went up to him apparently before the show, Craig Hillborn and was like, I heard about this story that you told about Gary Coleman. It was so funny. Can you talk about it on the show? And this, um, actor said, I can't, I can't repeat this on the air. I just can't do this. And Kilbourne said, okay, that's fine. I won't mention it. And then they're on air. And of course, what does Kilbourne do? He's like, so I heard a story about Gary Coleman. And he told the story and it absolutely killed with the audience. But he didn't want to say to talk about it.

Did that happen very often? I'll say it happened occasionally. Brand wasn't great about boundaries. And it worked out with that story. I remember that story vague. Oh, I mean, that story just annihilated. I mean, and I think after it aired, he was fine with it because it just got such a huge laugh and it was such an just completely

outrageous, outrageous story. What were your initial impressions of Steve Carell as a correspondent? I mean, this was after Dana Carvey's show. No one knew who this guy was, really. Loved him. I loved him and I loved Colbert. And one of my favorite segments on the show was a segment called Even Stephen. Yes. Based on the McLaughlin group. And here were the two, Stevens and they would basically they would argue for three minutes but my

favorite of all time was when they were arguing and Steve Carell said something and Colbert instead of you know screaming you're insane you're stupid

actually you have a point and Corell for the next two minutes basically has a nervous breakdown on air he goes you have to disagree with me i have nothing else this is all i have stephen's like i can't you made a salient point and korel just crumbles i had to leave the studio i could not be in the studio when that was because i was reduced to crying laughter at the rehearsal and everybody said all we hear is hang get them out of the studio so i had to be

backstage when they actually did it live that's interesting because you were actually known um and i had a day job at the colbert and i was known when i was there people um people that were regulars at the show um you could hear my laugh every single night i mean we had 104 seats but you were known for your laugh getting on every um a night that's interesting um yeah to chiccica improvisers that knew each other. That's a really, really funny. Who were one or two of the most nervous guest talent, Daily show

that you visibly nervous backstage before the show? Oh, God. That's a number of people. Loretta Lynn was one of them. And then she ended up having a great time. How was Betty White? Just a trip. Absolutely a trick.

Wonderful. Talk about a brilliant comedian. at one point because she was on Golden Girls at the time and Craig said to her when you go to Florida are you like Madonna down there is everybody all over Betty White

and Betty went blank and I'm standing off to the side of the stage she was pausing and Craig's about to jump in and I saw her squeeze his knee-tack It's like, don't touch this. And she finally came out of her little trance and said, I'm sorry. I was just remembering the last time somebody was all over, Betty White.

Huge laugh. I mean, the timing. The timing was impeccable. She told me a story backstage I'll never forget. Her late husband, Alan Lutton, the game show host, went to college with John Stein. The author, the first night Betty was going to meet John Steinbeck. They were invited to the Steinbeck's for dinner. Steinbeck never left his office because he was writing his Pulitzer Prize speech.

And the next time they went there for dinner, he gave her the handwritten speech and said, this is what distracted me from meeting you. that's amazing she also met the dog travels with charlie remember that Steinbeck book of course it was you know a standard poodle a big poodle and charlie apparently had been playing in the garden it was muddy he ran into the living room and put his front paws up on her skirt it's unbelievable i i know that she had her own show at um It was, because Carson was at CBS, do it local, like, 1951. I think they met in like 1951 or 1952, and then she had her own show, the Betty White show for a while. But, yeah, she was incredible career and longevity and just playfulness. And, like, if you're going to get, like, a talk show guest that's perfect,

Tony Randall is one. And she's definitely on that list if you were going to put, like, a Mount Rushmore. Being that story. My God. Yeah. Hey, listen. And here is a, that was a one. woman who won an Emmy Award every decade for six decades running.

Unbelievable. Talk about being at the top of your game for almost 70 years. Love the fact that you got to meet all these people. I know Ed McMahon was a guest early in John Stewart's tenure. What was that like? Well, I knew Ed because I had written the last season of Star Search down in Florida. And Ed had already done me a favor because I went from Star Search to politically incorrect. And when we were shooting for a week in L.A. with Bill, we wanted people who were quintessential Hollywood.

And that was Ed, and I called him, and he said, sure, I'll do it. And then when the Daily Show started, and I knew he was coming to New York, I called him again and said, we'd do our show. And not only did he do it, he agreed at the top of our show, rather than our normal rolling. He agreed to introduce John Stewart. Here's John Stewart, just the way he would have for Johnny Carson. And it was such a nice moment. And you could tell John thought it was cool.

What was the switch like with John Stewart coming in? because you have Craig Hillborden that's basically doing whatever's asked for him in terms of the producers and the writers for the most part and then you have John who is more of a point of view

and opinions and wants to do something differently. Well, I mean, John wanted to come in and make it his own show, which is normal, especially you have to understand John is an incredibly intelligent man.

He does have a point of view and he wanted the show to reflect that. I'll tell you, with him coming in, he already had a name. And so booking the show became a little bit easier. I'll say that. I looked at the guest list, and that's absolutely true.

And you did win a Peabody because of John, at least, I mean, your contribution plus John coming in. Oh, no, it was John. Yeah, but it was a big deal when he came in. There was resistance. I think it's public knowledge to a lot of people that there were some resistance with people on staff. Did you witness that? What did you witness in terms of some of the writers and maybe producers and did they didn't want to make the changes that John wanted?

Well, I mean, you know, a lot of people felt that John walked into a well-established show that worked. But it didn't work for John. So he made the changes he saw necessary. It took a little time for him to do that and to feel authoritative to do that. So it was a progression. Yes. So you were there for five years. And then before that, how long were you at Bill Maher with politically incorrect?

That was a little over two years in New York when he decided that he was going to take the show to L.A. Of course, I was very lucky. I was offered the job to follow them to L.A., but my whole life was in New York, so I wasn't going. And then just a couple of months later, I had dinner with Liz Winstead, and she told me about this new show they were starting.

And then I met with her and Madeline. In no time at all, I had a new job. Five years of employment, five plus years. You worked with the guests on politically incorrect. What was that like? I mean, that's definitely for a publicist. There has to be, I think, unless you're a Martin Sheen maybe or some other select people, some apprehension about letting their client talk politics.

What was that like? That was a big hurdle. That was a big hurdle. But as long as you get to the celebrity themselves, they were happy to do it. I mean, I got lucky. Joan Rivers, I mean, very funny. And also an oddity among comics. She was a Republican.

I don't know if I knew that. I mean, was she a Republican throughout her entire life? I mean, it was very different back then versus you had George Herbert Walker Bush, who John Stewart said what he voted for. I think it was the last Republican that he voted for. But was she a Republican? in her early last year's. I don't know if I knew that.

Okay, interesting. She was a Republican, but she was great on the show. And she didn't mind talking politics. A lot of people didn't mind talking politics. And sometimes it would be social issues. If they didn't want to go into politics, all right, then let's talk about arts in the schools.

Let's talk about any social issue you might. might be comfortable with. How often did the guests get the questions or the topics in advance? Was it at least a day in advance so they could maybe... Usually the night before so that they could think about. Did you ever see any arguments in the green room after the show with panelists and stuff that they carried it over after the show? Well, there was one right-wing Christian preacher who continued an argument with a couple of guests

from that show, one of whom, one of them was Sandra Bernard. And he didn't approve, I guess, of her. And that became a contentious

exchange. Who were some of the people that you had on standby in terms of the guests? Because sometimes you get cancellations. Who was who were your first, like, few phone calls that you know that you could maybe get that lived in Manhattan, maybe even near the CBS Broadcast Center on 57th Street where you could get somebody close to last minute. Okay, well, we had Randolph Mantooth, who was starring in a soap

at the time in New York. We had meatloaf. He lived very close to the studio. And then I had a pocket full of comics, who I could call. Who else did we have? Well, there had to be a few, but I just can't remember who they are right now. This is hard to believe, but there was an incident. Across from the broadcast center was 60 minutes, I was over to their offices. I was fortunate to go a couple times, and they were nice to me.

So you're in the green room. You're with the guests. When they're in the green room, that's their safety place. That's pretty much, you know, for the most part, off limits, even to the staff, unless there's something,

you know, it worked out ahead of time that you're going to have somebody on staff, maybe say hi to one of the guests, or they know somebody on staff they're friends with. So you're there one day and what happens? Oh, my God. Mike Wallace,

who is a hard-hitting 60 Minutes reporter. We had a guest who was making news at that time, and I don't remember why. I don't even remember who the guest was. But he came in with a camera crew, stormed into our green room. and demanded to talk to this guy. The guest got so spooked, he ran out.

He just left. And we are minutes before broadcasts, before our taping. And so Scott Carter, our executive producer, and I, had to deal with Mike Wallace, and we made him the guest. At first, he was reluctant to do it. And our argument was, you chase somebody out, you can't ruin our broadcast.

I've never heard of a show doing that. I mean, I guess it's 60 Minutes in investigative journalism, but for them to do that to another show that where somebody's going to be a guest. I mean, I can understand outside the broadcast center, maybe near the exit inside, possibly they could get access, but to the green room, I, yeah, I'd never. Yeah, and I really would like, because our green room was rhaps, Well, Hidden.

And I always wondered, who showed him where our green room was, you know? And it was like, how did you know this to come here? There might have been a mole. Who knows? Did you ever have panelists afterwards that were in tears? I mean, it could get really heated sometimes. Was it, did you ever see anything? No, no, I never saw that.

No, I never saw anybody in tears. What was the most memorable, like one or two things that you saw? all happen on the show with panelists or with Bill that just stand out that you're like, I can't believe this happened? Oh, well, if you remember the late comic, Kevin Meaney. Of course. Was on the same show with meatloaf. And I believe Senator Arlen Spector, and I don't remember who the fourth guest was,

but the OJ trial was going on at the time. And Meatloaf was convinced that OJ couldn't have done it because he wasn't. wouldn't have harmed his ex-wife knowing that his children were inside the house. And it was, I thought, a very generous interpretation. And Miloops gave up his theory on air. And Kevin, just the way he talked made me laugh. And he just got so sincere and said, you may be I. to something meatloaf.

And just the way he said it cracked the audience up. So I will never forget that. I remembered, oh, my God. Tom Arnold missed his flight from L.A. And so I had to scramble to find a comic in New York.

And there was a comic name Jeff Stilson. And he showed up at the studio and he had two pages of single space jokes. And he said, see if I can do any of this. He goes, I know a couple I can't do like this one, and he pointed to it.

And I said, oh, my God, Jeff, that's the only one I want you to do. It was so incredibly mean. But the joke was, the conversation, of course, on the panel was how far apart race relations were in light of this trial. trial. And Jeff's argument was he thought it was just the opposite. Because 50 years ago, a black man could be lynched just for looking at a white woman. And now we can cut our whole head off and nothing happens. And the audience just died. In the OJ trial, I mean, there was just so much trauma. And so, I mean, Norm MacDonald was doing his jokes on an update that were dark. And, wow. Yeah, well, the dark joke, I thought good for norm. Unfortunately, the head of NBC late night was friends with Kardashian and didn't want OJ jokes. That was Don O. Meyer.

He was friends with O.J. I mean, he was friends way after until the end, I believe, until I think Mr. O.Meyer was a 72 when he passed away. What was that like? I know what I know it didn't happen. a lot. But at the Daily Show, were there ever times that staffers, if they asked, could meet a guest backstage? And if so, how did that go? Was there anything that stands out? Oh, well, yes. I would let the mask. And then I would feel out the guests and see if they were, and I would always ask for permission. You're not going to spring that on anyone. But apparently,

there's a story that I don't remember but a good friend of mine tells me happened and I'll believe him Tony Danza was a guest and his JR came backstage to the green room hallway

with his brother in tow and said listen my brother is a huge fan of Tony Danza can he meet him? And I said well let me see and I go in apparently and say to Tony listen

we have a writer here whose brother is a huge fan of yours he happens to be in town would you mind meet again and apparently Tony's response was the writer wants to meet me fine but his brother so unfortunately

the writer's brother never got to meet Tony I worked on shows and we would have these A list people some of the most famous people. I don't remember anybody ever saying no to meet somebody. I mean, it was staff members. It wasn't, you know, somebody's brother necessarily.

But did anybody else ever, normally when people are over there, they're on, and I'm not saying Mr. Danza wasn't on his best behavior, but normally it's people will say yes to most things, something like that. Did you have anyone else that said that they wouldn't meet a staffer? No, that I don't remember, but I remember, you know, behavior. Who is difficult? Not difficult. He was, in fact, he was very funny.

But I remember Matthew McConaughey walking in with a six-pack of Heineken. And he was halfway through it already. And I don't think it was his first six-pack that day. So I'm pretty sure he was a little high when he did the show. And how did that go on air? Could you tell necessarily? I mean, I'm sure that it was actually a lot of fun. I mean, that was Johnny Carson back in the day.

I mean, not Carson personally, but some of the guests that would be drinking sometimes backstage before the show. And it could go either way. I mean, sometimes you would have these people that would get really loose and the crowd would think it's really funny. And then you had somebody like Mickey Rooney with Jack Parr, who admits he was completely, and he was intoxicated and just was belligerent with Parr. So you never know where it's going to go. But in terms of that, it worked for him. Yeah. And I got to tell you, I was surprised by a lot of people.

Sandra Bullock walked in and she was one of the most charming people I've ever met. And at one point, my assistant said, can I get you something to drink? And she said, I just want a cup of coffee. And Jamie said, okay, how do you take it? Ms. Bullock said, you don't have to get it for me. Just tell me where the coffee is. Wow. For somebody that's an A-lister, that's very rare. Yeah, I mean, but she was absolutely charming.

Hallie Barry was a sweetheart. And they both, I think they both came without their publicists. That does not happen much. No. At all. I was going to ask about your experience. That would have been before politically incorrect. I had Paul Pervenza recently on, but you were, you were booking guests when

Paul Pervenza had that, it was like the first show on Comedy Central talk show, comics only. You worked on that and people like Steve Allen and, I mean, you have these cutting edge people like looking back historic comics like Bill Hicks, who's life ended early. But it was just an amazing group of talent, some established some upcoming, but to look back on that, what was that like? That was a lot of fun. Paul was horrific to me. We had been friends for years. I had been working at the New York Daily News where I covered comedy

and he was in New York and his show was going to be going into production again in a month or two and he said you should come out and work as a segment producer for me and I said Paul I don't want to screw up your show I've never done that before

and he goes yes you have you've just done it in print now do it for TV that was the first time I worked on a set I think we did a hundred episodes in about two and a half months and it was just so much fun and he put me in sketches unreal it was a great time I'm aware Paul prevents his YouTube channel you're in one of the sketches he uploaded a bunch of of clips but Paul um yeah such a nice man. So you were at the Daily News for 20 years, and I was talking to you before about this. It's hard to imagine that you were 16 years older at the Daily News. And yeah, you said this was on the weekends and during the summer, but still to be that young in that environment. What was that experience like? Well, I was very lucky. My uncle was a big deal at the Daily News when I wanted a summer job.

He was the sports cartoonist, Bill Gowler. I got a job there working for the summer. At the end of the summer, the guy in charge of copyboy said, you want to work weekends? I'm like, yeah, I'm in high school, and I'm going to have the coolest part-time job. Yeah, I'll do it. Unbelievable.

By the time you get to University of Minnesota, you have all this life experience. So you're 16 years old. copy boy at the New York Daily News, and you have to go to Pete Hamill's home on Beakman Place, one Beakman place. But at that time, I was much older. I was 17. So you're 17, and you're going over to his house.

It might have been the first time to pick something up, and what happens? I had never been there. And one of those days, it was a Saturday. It was in August, and it was hot as hell. And this is before subways were air-conditioned. And I was zigzagging all over Manhattan dropping packages off, picking other packages up. I called my supervisor and I say, all right, I'm at Grand Central. And the Daily News was two blocks away from Grand Central.

And he said, all right, you got one more stock to make before you come back. And he gave me the address. I had never heard of Beekman Place. I was just a kid from Queens. I had to ask the cop at Grand Central. Officer, have you any idea where Beekman Glaces? And he told me to go to 1st Avenue on 49th Street and walk up the hill towards the river.

And there was this beautiful apartment building. I mean, it was not the kind of building I was used to. It was just total luxury. and I say it to the doorman, I'm here to see Pete Hamill. Like I said, it's like 100 degrees in the shade of the Empire State Building. And at this point, I'm just covered in sweat. And he goes, hold on. And he picks up the phone, calls upstairs.

And he turns to me and says, okay, she says, come up. I don't know why she says come up, but she said come up. And I said, okay, what apartment number? And he gave me that information. I knock on the door, and Shirley McLean answers it. And I was dumbstruck. I couldn't talk. I said, I'm here for Pete Hamill.

I thought I was in the wrong place. And she said, yes, Peter's in his office. Why don't you come in? And it was a marble foyer. I remember that. And she said, have a seat. And I was afraid to sit down because I think it was velvet cushions on the chairs. And I'm like, I'm going to leave a mark.

And so next thing I know, she comes back and she's got a glass of ice water and says, you look like you need this. And she goes, I'll get Peter. In the meantime, I'm still not saying a word. You're okay. And Hamill comes in, and Shirley MacLean says something to me again, and I'm having trouble answering, and Pete just says, what's the matter, galo?

Never met a movie star before? And I'm like, no. And it was like, oh, my God, this is how the other half lives. What an experience. Did you go back to his place? another time or was that just a one time one off it was one time there but then i met mrs mclean another time in the lobby of the daily news and this time she was all dressed up i don't know what where they were going but she came to the daily news lobby to meet pete and they

then they were off to some god knows you know ball or whatever and there she is in a gown and a full-length fur coat and I'm running through the lobby it's around 6.30, 7 o'clock at night and she goes, young man, young man and I turn and Shirley McClain and she goes, you've been to my

house before. Do you work at the news and I said yes. She goes, please let Peter know I'm waiting and I go up I drop what I needed to drop off and I run to Pete's office and I said

Shirley MacLean says she's waiting for you in the lobby and he says okay and he gives me the last page of his column and he stands up and there he is he's in a tuxedo shirt the black bowtie and boxer shorts

and he says give this to the editor and he puts on his tuxedo and five minutes later he meets Shirley McLean in the lobby I mean you know Who doesn't do that? Pete Hamill went on Johnny Carson's show at least six times, probably even more.

The documentary, I don't know if you saw a lot about Pete Hamill and Jimmy Breslin. Oh, my God. That was my coming the page. Yeah, I really enjoyed that documentary. But what was Pete Hemel like? I mean, you kind of have said to, I mean, he didn't he date Jacqueline Onassis for a little bit? Yes, he did. Did you meet her?

Did you ever meet her? No. No. I did not meet her, but her daughter Caroline stole my job once summer. I came home from school, and it was written in stone. I had already talked to my supervisor, and he's like, yeah, as soon as you land back in New York, give us a call, and you'll start within two days. I said, great. And I get back in, and I call him.

And he says, well, there's been a development. Pete was dating Jackie O and Caroline Kennedy wanted to know what it was like to work at a newspaper and she took my job Welcome to the world of must hires Must Hires Yeah everywhere

I'll never forget saying to Carlos who was our supervisor I said well good luck with that You're never going to be able to send her out of the building Good point How long did she last? One summer I think actually six weeks

because they were going to the cake you wrote a piece for the Daily News it was the title was called Is Comedy Genetic this was for the magazine piece Oh my God How did you find that? I do some research

So you sat down with the Stillers Anne Mera and Jerry Stiller I mean absolutely legendary comedy couple and then you have Ben Stiller who was a big star at the time and he's a movie star And, you know, I've met Ben Stiller. I think I had maybe once.

I don't think I met Jerry Siller and Mirr. I saw them perform and they were so funny together at a benefit. But I always heard such amazing things about both of them. But I think that this has a lot about Jerry Stiller. And I'm sure his wife, Ann, felt the same way. But you interview the three of them. This piece is done. And you get a call from Jerry.

And what does he say? Oh, no. The piece wasn't done yet. Oh, it wasn't done yet. Did you already, did you do the photograph? though already, correct? No, we were about to do the photos. Okay.

Jerry called and said, listen, Hank, I've got a problem. I'm thinking, oh, God, they're backing out. I said, what's the issue? And he said, we have two children. I know Ben is going to be featured in the magazine, but our daughter is also an actress who does comedy. Would you speak to her? And I said, of course.

Our name is Amy, Amy Stiller, and the cover shot of the magazine had already been planned. It was going to be the three of them. But the inside shot was the four of them. You would have thought I had done Jerry Stiller the biggest favor anybody had ever done him. And I said, Jerry, it's not a big deal. He and Anne, after that, were just so kind to me every time we ran into each other, whenever i requested either of them on any show the answer was always an immediate yes that's amazing i always was told that they would say family the most important thing and their brightest accomplishment

were always the kids you had your own show at carolines a bunch of times with these stand-up comics that were my god these were people that um some were a little bit established but you had other people that were about to blow up. What was that like to have Hank Gallo Knight at Carolines? And who were some of these people? These were charity benefits, but they still were like, I mean, it was a huge deal. I wouldn't have done it if it were not for charity. Who were some of the names that you remember and what stands out? Joyne Bayard, Susie Esman, Dennis Miller, Kevin Meaney. Brett Butler, I know did one Carol Lee for it. Yeah, Carol. Yeah. So many. It was like, I think, I think four comics every hanked out all night.

I think there were four of them. They were a lot of fun. And I drank for free. This is back when Carolines was at the Seaport, correct? At 8th Avenue and then the Seaport. Both locations. So you did both locations and you would do this. And speaking of Joy, for four years, you were with Joy Behar when you had the Joy Bayhart show.

You were a writer-producer of what stands out about it? that experience. Pardon the pun, but she was really a joy to work with. She got it. It's very rare in show business that the star had a real job beforehand. And Joy had real jobs before show business. She didn't get into show business until, I think, late 40s, early 50s. So she knew what it was like for people just to get through the day. And she was very kind to everyone. Easy, very easy to work with. Who are some of the most memorable guests, something that stands out either good or bad? I mean, you're doing live television. Oh, Larry David. You know, they were old friends. Liza Minnelli. Who else was there? Debbie Reynolds? Yeah. There's some big names. I

remember but you were there. Jane Fonda. Jane was a big fan. Steve Martin and oh my God, that was when we were on HLN. I worked with Joy on two different shows and it was HLN. It was our last week of shows because the powers that be, the new president of HLN, which was a CNN network, wanted every show on the channel to be about crying and joy just couldn't do it she just wouldn't do it and so one of our last shows was steve martin i mean maybe it was the last show he's standing in the green room with lewis black and i'm a fly on the wall and he says loo i need some sort of joke to open with and I've got nothing and they're talking about and I said

and I had worked with Lewis for so long and I said you mind if I make a suggestion and Steve Martin goes sure and I said okay I know that Joy will be thanking you profusely for doing her last show so I think you should respond by saying

you know Joy I would have been here sooner but I was always afraid you would ask me back And from the two of them, I got the equivalent of the comedy standing ovation. That's funny. And then Steve went out there. He opened with that joke. And it's like, oh, this is a Facebook moment.

I love hearing that to make somebody of his level laugh. When you were a film critic, you would, with the Daily News, was there ever an actor or an actress? personally reached out to you that were upset with a review? Yeah, yeah. Do you, is there somebody you can name? They feel comfortable naming? Okay, that's okay.

I can't name that one, but and then there was another B star whose wife, I met, I met his ex-wife, and she let me have it because when she was

still married to her ex-husband, apparently my reviewer. upset him. That is a tough thing because you have a job to do and, you know, the public is rating this and whether they should, you recommend them going. My job was, I mean, at that time, what were movie tickets? Eight dollars? And so my job, I thought, was to figure out whether or not to tell people to spend eight dollars. Did you ever have a publicist or somebody that a movie studio bribe you with money for a good review? Oh, God, no. No, no, no, no. that wouldn't have happened.

Maybe in the 50s, payola was big back then and more radio and stuff like that and just never know. But that's good with that print. You know, I'm a good Catholic kid. I know that you wouldn't say yes to it,

but, you know, I've talked to Johnny Carson talent coordinators that were bribed. Lots of money to put people on that, you know, shouldn't have gotten on and they all told me that they said no, but just the temptation sometimes

for things to be there. I have so many more questions. Would you come back sometime to be a guest? I mean, I know you were at Bob Costas later with Bob Costas. It was one of my favorite shows. You were there for, I believe, the last year. And you've done so much other stuff. I know you have a Don Rickles story in Atlantic City when you and a bunch of...

Oh, I love Don. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. What a legend. And you made them very, very happy to have, like, it was like 15 of you from the daily show that went to Atlantic City. I can't believe you know that story. Yeah, so we'll talk about that. But you're okay to come back sometime.

we'd absolutely love to have you. Yeah, not a problem. Thanks for listening. Please subscribe so you never miss an episode. On Apple Podcasts, please rate it and leave a review. Be sure to go to late-nighter.com for all your late-night TV news, and you can find my podcast at late-nighter.com forward slash podcasts. Have a wonderful week, and I'll see you next Tuesday.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.