Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Inside Late Night: Brian McCann

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

This week on LateNighter's Inside Late Night podcast, Brian McCann joins Mark Malkoff to talk about his time at Improv Olympic, his stand-up career, and writing and producing on Conan.Make sure to follow us on social media (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@latenightercom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) and subscribe on all podcast platforms and YouTube ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@latenightercom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to never miss an episode!

from latenighter.com, it's Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff. Hey, everybody, John Schneider here from Late Nighter setting you up for today's episode of Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff, where we have Brian McCann joining Mark on the show today. He, of course, worked with Farley at the Impropp Olympic, and we'll talk a lot about that, as well as his stand-up career and writing for and working on Conan. If you never want to miss any of Mark's interviews, make sure to subscribe to the Late Nighter podcast network feed both on any podcast platform and on YouTube and without further ado, here is Mark.

Brian McCann, nice to see you. Oh, great to be seen as they say. How are you? I'm doing good. I'm so excited to talk to you for a bunch of reasons we'll get to. So, 1987, when you graduate college, you're in Boston. Do you write on graduation the day after you head to Chicago? Yeah, that's exactly what happened.

And then the plan was to just linger in Chicago until my mom kicked me out of the house, which I knew was going to be in August. And then I was going to move to L.A. And me and a high school buddy were going to go out there and become stars. And then that fell through, and I ended up getting into advertising and still got kicked out of the house. But moved downtown Chicago and then started improvising and writing. And how did you hear about Improv Olympic in 1987 where you wound up? I was so I've told this story a few times, but I was basically, I was, if I wasn't going to be a star in Hollywood, the like a whole thrust of my childhood and everything was I wanted to be a cartoonist, to have my own comic strip. and so I set myself up in an apartment in Chicago

and I was trying to get my comic strip going and I just realized it's like, wait, I can't really write these things yet. Like I could draw, but like, and I had done them in college, but they were all sort of like very inside joke college, like, ha ha, you know, that's one of the deans. You know, like just sort of like lame stuff like that.

And so as I was like trying to write up this whole world of what my comic strip was going to be, I just sort of realized I needed some help writing, or just some experience writing, like, especially comedically. And I didn't want to jump right into stand-up because that didn't feel like that was exactly the right fit for me. And so I just started exploring what was going on in Chicago and came across this just very bizarre group. It was very early on the Improv Olympic.

And they were doing a show. I believe it was called Honor Finnegan and the Brain of the Galaxy. And I was not a theater person, really. I did some plays in high school, but that doesn't constitute anything. And so I had no idea what I was going to go see. And so it was just, you know, one of these blank pillbox sort of productions where it was just chairs and a bunch of bizarre people making this like, insane sort of storyline and I was like mesmerized by it and Delclose was the director and he spoke

afterwards and he cast a spell on me where I was like well that's the type of like ass kicking kind of old man I need to like you know inject me with the proper energy to begin writing and creating a world myself and I just got into it and I found out I was actually a good on stage, which I've always thought I was kind of a funny person, but like I was able to get laughs and they were doing shows seven nights a week. And like within a month, I was like one of the main players. Because it was so early on. It was so early on. And a great crew of people just started doing the same kind of thing I was doing. I think it was all like our, my age group or whatever people that had been seduced by John Belushi in the early Saturday night.

live days and stuff. And all these, like, really funny people started moving to Chicago and found the Improv Olympic. And it just, yeah, sorry. Please continue. No, no, no. There's nothing more to say. It just started just growing. No, it did. It just grew, like, very organically, very quickly. And it was the most thrilling thing. Like, I had no idea what I was getting into when it started. You know, I thought, like, maybe I'd do it for a month and just, kind of get some ideas about like how to write concisely. And I just found myself on this like weird forefront wave of like really funny people doing really funny things. And audiences like starting to really discover us and come out and enjoy it.

And it was just, it became like what I looked at as my grad school. And I stuck with it for, I don't know, almost 10 years. And it was like religion to me. It was like I've never felt so like at one with creativity. It was great. So 1987 when you started, your first day was also Chris Farley's first day. Is that correct? Or close maybe.

Yeah, it was super close, super close. I don't know. It was like it seems like within a week or so, yeah, probably. And yeah, which just blew me away because, you know, you've never seen anyone like him. And then all of a sudden there's this guy. And like initially I was just like, ah, you know, what is this? Just like this fat, crazy dude. Like, I don't know if he has any chops.

And he just was so surprising and articulate and gifted and just capable in ways which you would never give him credit for initially. Like I didn't write him off, but I was just like, oh, like here's a type of person. I've never hung out with and, you know, let's see what he's got. And, well, we know what he's got. But it was, yeah, he and I were on the same team right away. And, you know, those are easily some of the funniest nights I've ever spent on the planet. Did you bond with him over John Belushi? Because you're from the same place in Illinois as Belushi, and that was his hero. Did you talk about him much? It was kind of unavoidable. I mean, he was, he was, he was, he was,

very obviously inspired and just trying to live that life. And he did. But he and I, we wouldn't sit down and talk about it. Like we would seek out, like there was some, there were bars like around Second City. And everything happened around, you know, North Avenue and Clark Street or Halstead. No, I think it's Clark Street. There was all these bars and like we would know like, oh, that's the one Belushi and Acroyd would hang out at. And so we would hang out there and get drunk. And then we knew of like Acroyd and Belushi had a secret bar underneath this place on Wells Street. And we like would try to get invited there.

And sometimes, you know, after a second city show, people would go and we'd be able to finagle entrance into it. And we'd just sit there and like, I don't know, just, you know, soak up what you could. But there was no like real conversation about like, hey, like you're replicating or you're inspired. You know, it was just all happened quickly and organically. And you knew what was happening. But it was also an original. I mean, everybody we were hanging out with was inspired heavily by Belushi.

Like probably nine out of ten people I was doing shows with thought they were John Volusci kind of thing. And Farley was above and beyond. He was like the guy who was inspired by it, but then exploded in his own form. And there you could see, oh, this is not a guy who's mimicking or replicating. This is a guy who's channeling a energy and a vibe and a belief and a whole. way of looking at life. And damn it, it's hilarious.

I can't believe it happens so quickly for him because normally for standups or improvisers it takes a bunch of years. But for him it was like three years until he got SNL. It was on the main stage. It's extremely rare. Maybe him and Akroyd, but most other people took a lot longer.

Yeah, right? It was insane. It was, you know, because we're doing our little shows at the, we were always in the room of bars, you know, just like that kind of, that kind of vibe. And the Improv Olympic was unable to hold on to any specific bar for, it seemed like, more than a month. And so, like, you'd always just sort of get a phone call at some point, like, no, we're not there anymore. Like, meet it, you know, such and such a place tonight instead. But Del Close was also, you know, he was directing a show at Second City. And he, obviously, you know, he,

worked very closely with Akroyd and Belushi and Bill Murray and stuff and he had an instant understanding of what Farley was and what Farley could offer and he brought him in I think Farley just leapfrogged

the entire Second City organization and the whole farm teams and all that sort of stuff to get to the main stage and he just brought Farley into a main stage show like almost right away. I got to do some stuff at Improv Olympic, and I got to work with Del Close a little bit.

And he told me that in the beginning, Farley would be putting so much energy on stage that he really had to tell Farley to pace himself with his energy because it was almost too much. Is that what you kind of remember earlier on? I absolutely did. You know, like when we were doing improv and you're kind of standing on the back line and maybe there's a scene going on in front of you, and then there's, you know, they just call it edit where you come in and you start a different scene. I would just remember he would just like, he would flip or do somersaults or whatever just to edit the scene. It would just be like,

you know, and everybody would just sort of explode away and then be like, all right. You know, and then he would announce he loved that, he was always like, welcome to Gallagher Tenton-Awning. And he was always like one of his go-to things. He was the head salesman of Gallagher Tenton awning and like the scene would just explode and everybody would want to play in it because it was just always just like a a circus of just energy yeah he he was uh overpowering with his energy you know all eyes were on him always yeah your career's so interesting because you're one of the rare improvisers that was also doing stand-up what was it like doing caroline's comedy hour with freddy roman and hosted by richard jenny i mean you were freddie roman really

And I was not a student of stand-up, you know? So, like, my knowledge of stand-up was really Steve Martin and Stephen Wright and Bill Hicks. Bill Hicks, absolutely. But, yeah, Freddie Roman, again, you know, here's this old school, what was he, he was like a cat skills kind of comic. And I had no idea who he was or what that whole genre was, really. I was this, you know, like I said, it wasn't a student of it. I didn't, like, really grow up with it. And he just blew me away.

Like, it was instant, instant just, not awe, but just, like, massive respect. Because I was like, oh, here is the dude. Here's a guy who's lived it, who is it, who just has it. Like, his mind is a Rolodex that is so tight and so cross-referenced. And, you know, I'd never got the sense that he was, like, a real guy that, you know, it's not like we hung out and talked about life or anything. But my God, just constantly entertaining, you know, and it was one of those things, because I was just such an open, like, slate of just, like,

absorbing everything and I got to like those guys were like Richard Jenny was like a huge dude at the time Freddie Roman uh was a classic and had the massive respect of the Richard Jenny types and stuff and I was able to just I was thrust into it at a pretty high level pretty quickly you know like those sorts of situations carolines and stuff where you just got to I don't know, absorb it and just, it really showed me, it taught me the commitment that is absolutely necessary to succeed. And even if the commitment is like that strong, it's not that you're going to earn yourself an A-list thing at the top, but you are going to be in the game and you're going to be playing the game for your life. And these guys were happy, you know, and they

were funny and they were very respectful and kind to each other. And it was just, it was just a wonderful, like, endorsement of the whole career choice, which I was in the process of making, which was, yeah, I think I'm just going to try to do comedy for my life. And it's a great world, and it's a world that requires a lot of focus and commitment. But there's great people involved in it. Yeah, 1999. That was 95. And also, Alan Thick brings you up on evening at the improv. So you're doing a lot of stand-up. And you did stand-up on Conan before you were a writer twice, right? Three times maybe? Yeah, I think it was maybe three times. Yeah, stand-up, like, to me was, like, for whatever reason. I think, like, because the Chicago improv scene was so big. and then I was this guy that came from the Chicago improv scene.

Like, I guess I had a little bit of recognition. And so the Chicago stand-up clubs, like the improv and the funny firm, were very welcoming to letting me go up and do sets. And my sets were so different than everybody else's because they were kind of character-driven. Like at the time, everybody, like that 80s, and 90s stand-up world was very specifically you had your routine and your jokes and stuff like that. And I was more of a character coming out there.

And like my whole shtick was that I sucked. And, you know, like the shows, it was always filled with apologies. I was like, you know, it's, I'm going to get going soon. But first, you know, there's a bunch of stuff I got to deal with. So I was always just this like different voice. And I think people that were putting out. shows could always find a spot for me. And it wasn't like I bumped with anybody else.

So I don't know. It kind of worked. Like, I remember I got to go out and do like the very first HBO, not the young comedian, whatever there. The one in Colorado in Aspen, right? Yeah. It was like, yeah, the Aspen Comedy Fest. And like, I didn't even audition for that.

Like, it was so bizarre. Like, my improv. group auditioned for it, but they weren't really taking improv groups. And then I just got a call like, yeah, and they had not seen me as far as I know do stand-ups. Like, come on out and do stand-up. And I was like, yeah, you did the greatest heads. It was called Brian McCann's greatest heads. Yeah. So I got a kick out of. Yeah. It was just, that was like sort of a one-man show. I was, I always try to look at things as a one-man show. I don't know why. I think it just helps me structurally in my head, like, put things together.

So, yeah, I called it greatest hits just because it was just like, these are the 10 bits I like doing the most. But they had Albert Brooks out there that year, I think, Matt Besser. It's amazing. I was going to ask you, you get hired at Conan in the mid-90s, but how did your initial meeting go in 1993 when they're putting the show together? Robert and Smigel and Conan came to see you in 93 do stand-up. Did you do a packet for them, or how did that go? I did stand up like they Robert I guess he has a big

connections in Chicago but you know so I got a call that they wanted to come see me and Andy Richter was a very good friend so I definitely had him probably in their ears but they came to me and they just said they wanted me on the show but they didn't know what to do with me And so I didn't do a packet, but then Andy contacted me like a few months later, and he's like, you should do a packet because they're looking for writers, and already some guys are leaving.

I think it was like Louis C.K. or something was leaving or some other early contributors were moving on. And so he kind of talked me through a packet. And so I just sort of, I did a packet. It was just a very standard, what, 16 ideas, like a paragraph each, like what could we do on the show? And I was turned down, but they brought me into do stand-up. And then Conan loved the stand-up. And then I think I did another packet and didn't get it and got stand-up again. So they would bring me in to do that.

And then I just started sending them ideas every day unsolicited. I was like, I saw you did this last night. What if you could do that kind of thing? And so I just started literally every day sending them a couple ideas. And then they just called and hired me. Who were you sending this to it? Was to Andy or to Smigel or Jonathan Groff? No, I honestly think it was to the front desk kind of thing.

It was like the show fax number. It was, I didn't know what I. I was doing. I honestly, I was just like, well, this seems like the right idea. And like, they like my stand-up. I know that. And it took me a while to really understand like, oh, I should work on a show like that. Because I was just in Chicago and I was doing shows and I was having fun. And I didn't, and at this time, like, I'm probably in my 30s or about to be 30. And I just had not even thought of like, gee, maybe I should work in TV. Like, I don't, it was just so. It was just So I was such an idiot, but eventually it linked, like stuck in my head as like, hey, start pursuing this, like with a little like drive.

Did you know if your ideas that you were faxing and are calling and were getting to the right person? Or did you just just keep up the momentum and figure who knows? I think, I think it was just kind of a who knows. because I wasn't like communicating with Andy regularly or anything because I didn't want to bother him. But I think, I mean, I felt like they were definitely getting to Groff because I don't, I'm sorry, I don't remember exactly. But like I just felt that they were being seen and maybe I got feedback at one point like, hey, people thought that idea was funny. or maybe there was something, they're like, hey, they might have done something that I suggested. Somehow, you know, there was some sort of confirmation that there was a communication taking place.

And then Thanksgiving of 1996 right before you got the call in there, like, we need you here now. Exactly. So I was, and my wife and I were about to move to L.A. We were planning to move to L.A. in January. And that call just kind of came out of the blue. And I literally got the call and moved out to New York the following day, I think, like canceled my Thanksgiving plans, just sort of moved out there, sublet an apartment from a friend of Matt Bessers, and started working.

And it was just like full steam ahead at that point. Like at that point they were ready to put me on doing stuff that I was writing. And it was just like I couldn't believe it. You got a sketch on almost instantly the reindeer sketch, correct? That was part of a one-man show that I was doing in Chicago. And it didn't translate well onto the air. But like they let me do it. You know, like Conan loved to always talk about that show being,

a volume business and a giant meat grinder, and we just need content, content, content, and so I came in and had a fairly good or deep repertoire of characters and bits and things that I found funny. And so, and they were hungry for ideas. And they clearly had faith in me performing because they had me on as a stand-up a number of times. So, yeah, it all kind of worked. I felt I was coming in and already knew everybody from being there as a stand-up, and Andy had introduced me to the writers prior.

So it felt like very comfortable, very easy. I was instantly supported. And, you know, it was, there was no looking back. It was just like, ah, like I have found my family. I was going to the show the first year. And early on, Joel Goddard did the warm up. Then Mike Sweeney took over and really did a great job. Did you take over for Sweeney?

How did that happen? Sweeney became head writer and Conan didn't want him doing warm-up anymore. And Sweeney just let me do it. I mean, he sort of put in a word for me and just like have McCann do it. And I had watched Sweeney do it and I always loved his warm-up. He's just effortless. It's funny, man. Oh, my God.

It's so funny. So I initially I modeled what I was doing after him. I'm like, okay, just go out there and, you know, smar me and talk to the audience. And it was a muscle I didn't have, but I developed quickly in the audience. I had a big advantage because, as you said, like, they put me on right away. So a lot of people sitting in that audience would recognize me from bits or whatever. And so I had it, I didn't have that initial, like, hump to get over of, like, talking to people. Yeah, like, hey, I'm funny too.

Like, there was nothing like that. would come out and there'd be enough people that would recognize me that I think other people would be like, oh, I don't know who this guy is, but we'll give him the benefit of the doubt. So when Conan comes out for the warm up, do you whisper in his ear if it's a good audience or a bad audience or how it is? Yeah, he was always curious about that. And I think I was told not to tell them it was a bad audience. And it never really was, but later on, I don't know, like, if it was just the age of the show or the political times or whatever, but then there were certain runs that would happen

where the crowd would just kind of not be fans as much as tourists who, you know, were in New York and wanted to catch a taping of a show. Like, I remember when I was a kid, we went to L.A., my family and I, and we, like, went to the taping of a game show called Beat the Clock, which I had never watched, but, you know, like we went and were like, hey, beat the clock, you know, like. And so I felt it was like this real year maybe where the audience was just people who were in New York to do New York things, and this was one of them. And those crowds were either incredible or just very stiff.

And sometimes, like, I would really be proud of myself if I could take a stiff crowd and, like, just wheed them down and break them down and get them laughing. That was, like, always, like, a super successful, you know, like, strong feeling. But then there were other nights where it was just a disaster. And I would, I totally would have to tell Conan, like, we're in trouble. Like, was he still doing hunkah, hunker, burning love Elvis when he came out? Or did he stop at that point? No.

He was still singing when he came out when you were doing the warm up. Yeah. And it was good energy, you know, like it was because the band would come on after me. And the band, like, what's human on the planet doesn't love like a live eight piece entertaining band out there dancing and singing and, you know, like really just cranking it up? And so the band was always good to ratchet it up, you know, for a good five minutes. And then if Conan came out, like, I don't know, I think it helped him shake off any nerves. And I think it really helped the crowd just see like, oh, okay, we're in for an insane time here.

This guy's a showman. This guy's going to, like, you know, he wants to entertain and we are here to be entertained. So it was always like a very good raising of the bar and soothing out any reference. edges, but some crowds just could not be one. Your warm-up was really funny. I was invited the last couple weeks of the show, and I went to the show and the Jonas brothers were on. And I remember at the end of the warm-up, you said, okay, Conan's backstage doing blow with

the Jonas brothers, something like that. And everyone was laughing. And that I did notice after Conan came out, he did the warm-up, and then he was going behind the curtain that he turned to a producer and went like this, just saying the audience, I knew what he was talking about because I worked in. TV for years that the audience was just okay. I had thought the audience was much better, but it definitely is so hard for that person to get through the show if they're just, if they're not there, which, yeah. It's funny. Like you said, like you would think the crowd was good, but there's certain,

I don't know, you just can sense like, I guess like if you're doing a song that always works or a bit that always works. And if the reaction is like an eight out of ten, you know, you're like, mm, okay, like this is, you know, those are just good little barometers of what sort of audience mindset is out there. And so you know, like, especially if you've hinted, you know, subconsciously at some sort of ideas that are coming up on the show that night. Like if I said, like, yeah, Cohen's backstage doing Coke with the Jonas brothers in

the crowd was like, ooh, you know, then I'd be like, yeah, we're in trouble. The audience thought it was, yeah, you had the palm, you did such a good job with the warm up. I was going to ask, who are some of the favorite, who are some of the favorite guests that were on the show that you pitched ideas to for sketches that was maybe surreal that you're like, I can't believe I'm pitching to this person? The one that sticks out would be, because I, is Rowan Atkinson, who I just, I really love Mr. Bean and like all his black adder and stuff. And so he actually came to the producer he was working with Frank Smiley and said he was up to do a bit.

And so I had this idea. And it's execution. You know, like, it's always exciting to do that. And I was like, I can't believe I'm spending, you know, like tomorrow is going to be the day I'm shooting with Mr. Bean. And the idea was that he came to the show in stages, like a limousine would arrive. And it was like his shirt and another limousine would arrive. And it was his shoes. And it was just like, this guy.

It was some sort of like, he is so fancy. Sort of just like. But I remember it played so slowly. And it was like the payoff was so subtle or, you know, it was just like I remember his Rowan Atkinson said he wanted to do it. Because like, oh, this is so very British. But it didn't play. all that well for the rowdy American crowd. Like, they weren't enjoying watching a pair of shoes roll up in a limousine.

But that's great. You got to work with him. You've got to work with so many amazing people. You mentioned that you did a sketch once with Conan where it completely bombed. Did they stop tape? And post-production, did they sweeten it? Or did it air as is with silence? Oh, there are plenty that aired as is with silence.

There was one thing we did. There was some character I was always doing, like, around the office, which was just an, we called him the arrogant dumbass. And it was just like, I was just like super dumb, but super abrasively arrogant. And it was in the writer's room, and like, especially with Andy, just found it very entertaining. So it was like something that was going on for months. And so we did it one night on the show. And I was, I think we called it, I was a page.

I was supposed to be a page coming in from the hallway. And I was playing this arrogant, dumbass. And the crowd instantly, like the first line of it, like, I forget what it was, but the crowd, there was no laugh. It was just like this, oh, it was just like this, like group bit of disgust. And in my head, I was like, oh my God, like, I knew right away that they thought what I was doing was making fun of mentally challenged people, like that I was mocking, you know, physical inefficiencies. And it was terrifying. And in my head, I was just like, seven more pages to go.

And it aired? It aired. Wow. It aired. And it was just, and I'm sure you can see sweat coming out. You know, it was just like awful. And there was another one we did where I was in the audience. I always loved doing stuff in the audience.

And I was some other moron character. And I remember the crowd just was not on board with it. And at the end, you know, like they would always bump around to commercial at the end of the sketch, maybe just showing the person in the audience. I forget what it was, but it was just me in the audience, and I'm just going, I love to sing, I love to sing, I love to dance, I love to sing, I love to dance. And nobody, the whole audience is just stone-faced. And I'm just trying to sell it.

Like, I can still see the red light on the camera. And I'm like, oh, just cut, cut. Your bad at an average, though, was exceeded Ted Williams. I mean, in terms of the sketches, you did do a new character, which was, you got booed by the audience. It was like water bottles or jugs that you're paying. What was the character? It was the guy who's the I Am Not Annoying guy. And so I had two giant, you know, those water cooler plastic jugs.

You know, and it was part of that run of characters where Conan would just be introducing a new character after new character after a new character. It was like a desk piece and we'd look at 10 new characters. And so I was the I am not annoying guy. And it was just me banging those things in front of the crowd. And the crowd liked me. You know, I had done the warm up. and the crowd was on my side.

So I think they just felt very comfortable. Like that was, like the whole crowd was booing like so loudly. I'm like, I am not annoying. I am not annoying. And I'm just like banging this. And they just felt so compelled as a group to just boo. And like that to me was one of the sweetest successes of all. It was so wonderful.

It's like when they would boo Karnak, when they would boot Johnny Carson's audience, would boo Karnak on a bet. I was going to ask, what was that like? in May of 2000 when Andy Richter left. I mean, that must have been a tear fest in terms of, you know, he was such a part of the family. What stands out about when he left? I just remember there was just a real, like, behind the scenes, like, what is going to happen? And what is he doing?

And he wanted to, like, he wanted to start a new show. And I was kind of talking to him, you know, very casually about, like, what could that be and stuff? So he was still in my life. It wasn't like he exited my world, really, but the show was so different and rehearsals were so different. And it was like a real... What I love about Conan is things like that. And there was always ups and downs and weird twists and turns with that show,

not just Andy leaving, but like with being renewed and time slots. changing. And Conan was always very intelligent and calm and inventive in the way he would attack those problems and turn them into positives. And he was very open with, like, we would have meetings in his office, just him and the writers. You know, and he would open it up to discussion of like, what should the show be? Should someone come in and replace Andy? Should we have, like, there was talk at one point of like Pat Nosswald could be his new sidekick. But they didn't, they didn't mention you or Stack. I'm surprised they didn't mention or Glazer or any of the. Those names came up in those meetings, but Conan was adamant that it was not going to be him and me,

two Irish, like big-headed guys sitting next to each other. So that was shut down as soon as it left someone's lips. And, you know, Stack was probably the same thing. You know, Conan knew he needed someone to play off of. And he, you know, he found strength in just, I think it really helped boost his connecting with guests and, like, finding deeper ground to explore with guests and keep them there and, you know, find those relationships. Like, I really feel that was the growth of him, like, really developing good relationships with an enormous group of people.

So, my goal, Robert Smigel once was talking about certain guests that they would call in to do bits who would, and one person that would do almost anything, he said, was Dr. Joyce Brothers. They would put her in the most ridiculous situations. And what was the bit that you wrote for new characters? I did so many things with Dr. Joy's brothers. And every time I would do a bit with her, she would always be like, you know, I have a museum. I think it was at Cornell University.

And it's the Dr. Joyce Brothers Museum and everything I do that I've done with you is there. And no matter how old you are, you'll be able to bring your grandchildren to my museum. And they can see what we're doing. And I was like, okay. And I remember her saying to that, and meanwhile, we're backstage on a bed, spooning because it was another new character's thing and my new character was the guy that's spooning Dr. Joyce and so the curtain opens up and we're in a bed

and I'm like, I'm spooning Dr. Joyce, you know, and the bed gets pulled through the crowd and the crowd's like, hey, I'm like, yeah, that's Dr. Joyce. But like right before that house, sweetly she was just like, you know, this will be in my museum and you can come see it. Did she ever say no to a bit? Or was she always game for anything?

She was always game for anything. One time I did a bit, oh, my God, I forget what it was, but she was on the floor. And, like, the idea was, like, people were kicking her, you know, but, like, the, and it was just interns around kicking her, you know, and obviously, like, don't kick her, you know, like, have your foot land three inches away. We'll make it work with sound effects. And one intern actually made contact, gently but made contact. I remember her, Dr. Joyce just standing up and like, okay, I'm done. I was like, absolutely. But she was up for literally anything.

Jill Goddard told me the same thing. I asked him once if he ever said no, because they'd make, you'd make him look so ridiculous. But he said no, I said yes to everything. Did you have a favorite Joel bit that you wrote for him? I believe I created his Asian boy toy toshi. I remember. Yeah, Toshi was featured in many, many bits. That's his real name, by the way.

I want to say Toshi is, that's his, the guy's name, right? Yeah, yeah. I met, there was a previous Toshi. It's so funny, I have an eight-year-old son, goes to school in New York public schools. And I was at a parent event. And an original toshi came up to me. His kid is also in my son's class. And he's like, yeah, you had me, like, years and years ago.

I was like, came in. Or he came in to audition and he really wanted to be Toshi. And he's like, I remember you, like, put me in a gold speedo. And I had to, like, stand shirtless next to Joel. And I was part of his audition. And I'm like, now we're parents. together. Transition. Do you think it was necessary to have 12-hour days for the writers based on just a desk piece in one act five or whatever it was? It wasn't a lot of comedy

for 12 hours. Was that necessary? No. It wasn't, but for, you know, and I was a firm believer in that it was not necessary. But, you know, every once in a while at one in the morning, something like sort of legendary, brilliant would come out that, you know, would then make an anniversary show or something. And you'd be like, all right. But for the most part, and like when we moved the show to California, the tonight show and stuff, the hours got so much better. Like we'd all of a sudden be leaving at seven.

And I was like, yeah. I'm shocked. I thought it would be the reverse since the Tonight Show when it's more involved, that it got better. Wow. It got better. And I think it was just a financial. thing, like of having to pay for dinners or something like that all of the same. So you got your social life back.

You knew right away when you walked into that giant $40 million facility in Universal that the studio was too big, you could tell that this was not conducive to comedy? It was certainly not conducive to where we came from or what we had been doing for whatever it was, 12 years or however long. it was a completely different setup. It was a big, wide studio and very deep. And, you know, like when I was a kid and I went to go see the Tonight Show, and I think like even in college I would go out to California and I would watch the Tonight Show. That was like such a very long, narrow studio.

and I remember reading a book where Johnny Carson was like, it needs to be that. The crowd needs to be focused and tight. And so the comedian's just playing, because you're trying to play to a camera and a crowd. And if the crowd is all around you, then you lose the camera. And if you're not talking to the camera,

then you lose the real important people, which are the ones at home. And it was just, yeah, it was too big, and the audience becomes a little. too much of a part, too much of a presence and a little hard to control. Where was the strangest place that you traveled for the show? Because you went all over the country. Was it Budapest? Was that the most out? Absolutely. So I was in charge of, I think it was originally a Dino Stamatopoulos bit. Yes. It was the ventriloquire. And it was like,

for holidays, they'd bring out, you know, eight to ten ventriloquists in their dummies. and the dummies would sing kind of a traditional, you know, holiday song or the turkey and the straw at Thanksgiving kind of thing. And so I inherited the ventrilla choir and we had done a few. And a talk show host in Budapest saw it and insisted that the ventrilla choir come and be on his show. And so within a week of that call, I'm on a, like, remember I got to fly first class because the Writers Guild lets you fly.

first class or demands it, you know, for a flight that's whatever, international. And the ventriloquists had to sit and coach. And the ventriloquists were all very bitter about the fact that I'm up in first class and the producer that was going with me was up in first class. And I remember one of the dummies could not, like these guys, like, they travel with their dummies and the dummies are their children. They don't check them in with the luggage and stuff. Like, they really have a relationship with their dummies that is paternal. And one dummy was not fitting in the overhead somewhere back in coach. And so I remember there was an empty seat in first class and the dummy, they just buckled it in in its case. But like next

to me in first class was not a ventriloquist, but a ventriloquist dummy in the box. And then we get to Budapest and that was just completely surreal. Like we're, I remember the camera crew had just come back. They were like war correspondent people. I forget what war was going on in the Middle East, but the guy was just back from Iraq or whatever. And he was just so happy to be out of the firing line and just back in Budapest where he could just run around

and have fun with the ventriloquists. Alan's Weibel, one of the original Saturday Night Live Writers, was writing for, I think it's Gary Shanling Show and said that they, at one point, we're going to possibly have Sherry Lewis and Lambchop on. And Sherry Lewis insisted he says this happened that Lambchop had their own seat on the airplane. Yeah. You need to.

And I'm just like, you've got to be kidding me that this is a thing. I had no idea, but you've just, yeah, prove this exists. It's completely exists. And then, you know, I spent two days in Budapest with these guys and their children. And like, it's, it's. It's amazing. Like my child, I have an eight-year-old son, like I said, does not get treated nearly with as much respect and just love as these dummies. Lauren Michaels on Saturday Night Live will put sketches on sometimes that are not as favorite.

Like Mr. Peepers with Chris Kattan was not his favorite, but he would put it on. Now, I know Conan initially was not really into preparation age Raymond, but was Conan like that as well? This might not be my taste initially, but if the audience likes it, we're going to put it on. Yeah, I mean, and it gets back to his understanding that it's a volume business and, you know, you got you got time to fill every single night. Like, we were doing five nights a week sometimes for 12 weeks in a row. That's true. You know, and Saturday Night Live, like, would it be doing three shows a month, you know, and they would even be having trouble filling it, you know, like with all tight ideas. And so if something worked, Conan was like all for it.

It worked right away. And that was one of those things you're just fooling around the office. From 2001 to 2009, I think you, I don't know how many times you did it, but it got to be a huge staple and always got a huge evasion. Yeah. It just came out of, you know, like all sorts of companies were always sending whatever to the show, like with the hopes to get it on the air. And so one day we did receive a giant shipment of Preparation H. and nobody wanted it. And so, like, I put on a Santa Claus hat and just started, like, running around the office and sort of making up little, not, you know, like little dirty rhymes about sphincters and buttholes and stuff.

And then it was always the origin of my pieces that made it on the air were just, like, screwing around and around the office and someone going like, let's do that on the show. Let's do it. Who were some of the guests that you went backstage to say hi to just as a fan that you wanted a photo with or an autograph? Did you do that at all? I did it initially. I remember Eric Idol. Oh, yeah. At the Today Show, I know he was across the street when he was on,

or maybe it was in studio. Yeah, no, I think it was across the street. But I remember, like, going up to him and just like, hey, I love you, man. And him just, like, looking at me, just going, you love me. I'm sure he was, like, just, like, being funny. but like it really struck me as just like,

I'm not going to talk to people anymore. Like, like, because I don't know, he just. So Python, come on, you have to,

we all love Python. Yeah, we all love Python. But it was just like, interesting. Like, he wasn't being a jerk. He was just sort of pointing out,

I don't know, like, do you really? You know, like kind of thing. And like, you know, it was just like,

thanks for saying hi, but you didn't need to do that. It was that sort of feeling. And so, like, I never pursued that. I had, other idea. I remember I wanted to get a picture of Don Rickles. And I wanted to him to,

I just thought it would be funny if it, if it was like a picture of me, like saying something like that in his ear and him just like pretending I was so hilarious. I just wanted a picture of Don Rickles thinking I was hilarious. And I was like trying to run the idea by him. And I remember him just turning to one of the producers. He's like, who is this guy? Get him out of here. Did you get your photo? No. Oh my gosh. And so. Just a couple things like that where I was like, you know, I'm just going to hang back and do my thing. It was, that seems like so Larry Sanders.

I know the Lorraine Brocko also was very Larry Sanders-esque with you because you're doing, you just had done a bit and you're on the couch. She's trying to talk to you as a human being and what, what do you do? I was staying in character. Like, I think I was Preparation H. Raymond, I think. And she was a, she always got a kick out of it. And so then Conan brings me down to sit. to her. And then we were starting to go to commercial and the camera's still on. Again, you can

see that red light. And so, like, in my head, I'm like, I got to stay in character. I got a stay in character. And so she was just, you know, she said something nice to me. And I'm like, oh, really? Okay, Lorraine. You know, and she's like, oh, are you going to stay in character? She just said that to me. He's like, are you going to stay in character? And, like, the light was still on. I'm like, you know, I'm going to do what I got to do, Lorraine. And she's like, okay, well, I'm not into that. I remember in college people quoting Mick Ferguson bulletproof legs. How did that come about?

How many times did you do that? You did it a few times, right? Yeah, we did it. It was very funny. Five or six or seven times. Eventually, the censors asked us to stop because they thought it was promoting violence against homosexuals. They assumed that McFerguson was homosexual, my character.

never occurred to me, but that came about as everything. Yeah, I didn't know that. I never thought of that. I just started singing that one day in the room, like, not as a pitch, just like, killing time before John Groff got in there or something. And then I think it was Brian Stack was like, let's do that on the show. How hard was it when you left in 2012? Did you tell Conan, did you sit down with him?

What was that last day like for you? And they did the tribute to you. Yeah, the tribute was very nice. It was just, you know, I was flying back and forth from L.A. to New York, like almost every weekend to be with my daughter. And I don't know. It was just the writing was on the wall. And my now wife was also stayed in New York. So it was just, you know, I was living both places and it was exhausting.

I don't know. I just felt like time was up. and like I felt I wasn't giving either part of my life the proper energy kind of thing. And I felt my family kind of needed me a little more than the show needed me. You know, it was just like one of those decisions. So it was pretty set in my head. And it was weird, like a week before Conan, we were doing shows in Chicago. And Conan and I were just kind of chatting before a show outside, you know, just

basically shooting the breeze kind of thing. And he was very kind all of a sudden, like, saying how much he appreciated everything I had done on the show, and especially early on, how it really helped the show, like, find its footing a little bit during all the tumultuous, like, re-uping and stuff like that. He felt like having characters that he could keep coming back to, I think just helped solidify a little bit of what the show was. and like in my head as we're talking about that I'm like next week I'm gonna tell you I'm leaving it was just like weird timing but he took it like very well you know he was always supportive of things I did he was always very kind if I needed whatever like time time away

or something what Mason Ron yeah 17 years unbelievable were you surprised when you were working on the Dana Carvey sketch show pilot for Fox with Spike Verrison, were you surprised it didn't get picked up? Or did you think it was strong enough? I thought it was strong enough, but there was sort of behind the scenes stuff that made it clear near the end that it wasn't going to happen for, you know, I won't go into it. but it was kind of clear it wasn't going to happen prior to us finishing shooting it. So it wasn't like not picked.

I don't know why it wasn't picked up if they didn't like the content of it. I think it's a pretty funny pilot that we put together. But I think it was just sort of decided by kind of both Spike and Dana like now. I'm just always shocked when Dana does anything. He doesn't like leaving his home. He's told me this before. So whenever I read that he's going to be doing a podcast in studio or do something, I'm always like, wow, Dana's leaving or going to Largo every couple years. He'll do something. But I love it. And then he worked with him on a sitcom as well project, right? Was that something separate? That was separate. It kind of came right on the heels of the sketch show kind of going away. He was given by like Tom Warner. He was kind of given a.

pilot, they wanted to have him in a show like sort of a Cosby show sort of thing where he's the head of a family and, you know, like a cool dad and fun dad and funny dad. So myself and Michael Gordon, another writer at Conan, worked with Dana pretty extensively for solid month. And we even did a re-through at Tom Warner's house, like in the Pacific, Palisades. And I remember he brought in Ed Asner as a surprise to be like Dana's dad. And it was a really fun, cool evening. And I thought the show was really fun. But I think for reasons that were never clear with me, like Tom Warner just sort of passed on it. Who knows? But that's still,

Dana's a great guy. Oh, my God. The work with him was just astounding, just kind of. constantly funny, like, I had such a man crush on him. I was just like my wife would just like, his chairman. Oh, my guys, it's so funny and charming. He likes to do bits. Yeah. When you were, when you were a writer-producer,

untotally biased with W. Camou Bell, was Chris Rock as EP? Was he very hands-on? No, he was not hands-on. I think I saw him twice. And one was kind of when I was just starting. He happened to be backstage and Chuck Sclar, introduced me to him.

And he was very intimidating presence to me. Like, I remember being introduced to him and him just kind of like looking at me. And then he looked at Chuck and he like points to me. He's like, this guy's funny? And I was just like, Jesus. But I think he was just, you know, being, whatever, giving me the business kind of thing.

And then the only other time I saw him was he came in and he was just livid about some bit that had gotten on the show. And he came in and just, like, was just ripping into Kamau and the writers that created it. It was like some sort of award show parody about the Audi Awards or something. And he was just like, you cannot have a bit on a show

where you are outing people that you don't know if they're gay. You can't come out and start outing them. It was like, all done very. very humorously and like tongue and cheek kind of thing, but he was just like read the riot act. That was the only other time I saw him. Were you surprised? Was the room surprised with his reaction to something like that with his comedy being so edgy? I was initially surprised, but then the longer, like, I mean, his rant was probably only five minutes and convinced, you know, I was just like, absolutely.

Like, you know, he was just passionate about it. And it was just, it was fascinating and 100% he was right. Yeah, it was just like for only having seen him twice, you know, it was just interesting that the second time was like this super intense, you know, running a show type of guy and not coming in humorously and screwing around kind of thing. So I've always, always really found him hilarious. So it was just very interesting to see this other side of him. And it was completely passionate and completely correct.

And it made me admire him even more. Like when this is completely unrelated, but then years later when he's getting slapped by Will Smith, the way he handled that was just so masterfully and just so incredibly. And I remember that brought me back to that, you know, rant he made about these outlets. I don't know. I have nothing but respect for him. Yeah. I was going to ask, what was that like in 2021 being the head writer for The Kids Tonight Show? I don't even know if people know what this is, but I would just think that that would be so, I don't know, freedom to do a lot of things, but at the same time, maybe limiting by a network standpoint, I mean, what was that like?

That's very well assessed. It was, it was interesting because it was during COVID. So we had to, you know, the Kids Tonight Show, if you don't know, is there was like four kids that were selected to kind of be co-hosts kind of thing of a Tonight Show format, but, you know, four kids. And it was, you know, like two of the kids would be running the desk. Two other kids would be like maybe out on the street or, you know, correspondence. And they would all kind of rotate in and out of those positions. And there was a band guy, a wrecker on drums. He was like the head of the band kind of thing. And it was like a really fun makeup of a show, but it was during COVID.

And so there was enormous restrictions right away on how much time you could spend with these kids. And there was also all these like child labor laws. So these kids, like you couldn't just do a show. You had like, you get one hour with them in the morning, then they have to go to a school, you know, and there'd just be tutors that would take them away. Like, and there were people watching to make sure you were not using them for longer than an hour. So it was all very structured and it was not a way to organically build stuff. But the kids were really funny, really talented. and I think in a better environment where the kids would be allowed to just kind of hang out and write and screw around and, you know, like a regular show, I think there would really be something there, but it was just very structured.

And there was all sorts of lawyers lingering about to make sure no, like, work codes were being violated or meal breaks weren't being adhered to. But what was really interesting also was it was in the old Conan Studio. Oh, wow. Six-A. Yeah, it was in Six-A. So it was very, like, surreal to be in there doing a completely different show with, like, a lollipop gumdrop set as opposed to, like, what we were doing. But, you know, in essence, kind of the bits were similar in a way. you know like weird surreal funny non-topical sort of comedy was always the better bet

the last question i wanted to ask us you wrote this book i forget what it was called but it wasn't it deers that were hunting hunters it was like a reversal yeah that was not a book that was a video game oh was it a video game okay but you wrote it and you wrote the jokes was it your concept no it was not my concept it was a guy from simon and schuster reached out to me. And he was like, he wanted to do a parody of the deer hunting game. There was like a super popular video game, I think just called Deer Hunter. And it was like the biggest game of the year.

And it was just you could go deer hunting. And so this was, or maybe our game was called Deer Hunter. Either way, he wanted to do the opposite where it was deer hunting hunters. And so myself, him, And another producer from Simon and Chuster just sort of created this game. Yeah, they did a few incantations of it. And I only really did the first one. And I remember bringing in Amy Poehler and Tina Faye.

They were new to Saturday Night Live, but I brought them in to do voices. And I think Brian Stack did voices as well. It got some press. It did. Well, the game it was parodying, like I said, was like it was. It was like the number one video game back in the day. Brian, thank you so much for talking to us, Brian McKin.

This was fun, amazing career. You've had, I've been a fan of yours for a long time. Thank you, Mark. We really appreciate this. This was a great time. I appreciate it as well. Thank you. Thank you, sir.

Thanks for listening. Please subscribe so you never miss an episode. On Apple Podcast, please rate it and leave a review. Be sure to go to late-nightner.com for all your late night TV news, and you can find my podcast at latenighter.com forward slash podcasts. Have a wonderful week, and I'll see you next Tuesday.