Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Inside Late Night: Fax Bahr

Episode Date: April 28, 2026

Mad TV co-creator Fax Bahr joins Mark Malkoff to discuss building late-night TV’s first real challenger to Saturday Night Live, creating In Living Color’s Fire Marshal Bill with Jim Carrey, and the future stars he auditioned before they landed at SNL.

From late-nighter.com, it's Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff. Welcome to Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff. Today we talk to Fax Bar about Mad TV and Living Color and so much more. Join us. Fax Bar, thanks for talking with us. My pleasure. So Detroit, Michigan, suburb of Detroit, you're growing up. You get to the University of Michigan, and your life changes when you meet David Allen

career. Yes. How old were you? I was a freshman and I was an actor at the time. And David and I think we auditioned for a play together or whatever and sort of hit it off and started hanging out. And he and his roommate, Reggie Kathy, another great actor. And we just became tight. He had a theater company called The Back Alley,

players. And so I started working with them. Really, we were doing like these all these 60s plays where they needed a white guy to kick the shit out of all. And that was sort of my role in all these plays. But it really, it really cemented our friendship and it's lasted until now. So then you go to Los Angeles and tell me if I have this, right? Are you directing a sketch comedy show with Brian Cranston? And is that the Stephen Weed show? Yes, wow, good research. Yeah, we've been doing theater. You know, it was impossible to like break into the business when I first got out there. And so we just started doing theater, like late night sketch comedy theater. And my colleague, Sean Shepts, wrote a sketch show called sort of skewering the 70s. And we just, you know, went in drama log and sent out, you know, requests for actors. And Cranston showed up at the time, I think he had. just left New York. He was a soap opera actor and he was looking to just work out on stage. And he was like, we were like, oh my God, this guy is insane. So we cast him and he was the hit

of the show, of course. And he's also remained a friend. Is that where you met your writing partner, Adam? Yes. Adam wrote some of the sketches in the show and performed in the show. So Adam Small, I mean, you've done so much we're going to get to. So at some point, I think it was after the first season of In Living Color, you get a call from David Allen Greer and what does he say? After the first season? I thought it was after the first season that Keenan got rid of all the writers and called you and said. Yes, that's right.

Yeah, so I guess In Living Color was a mid-season pickup for Fox. And so they did 13 episodes. and Keenan got rid of most of the writers from that first thing, you know, as people do as the show continues to grow. And David called me. He knew that I was doing a bunch of sketch stuff. And he goes, hey, you should submit. So I did.

And Keenan, Adam and I wrote some sketches together. And we submitted them and Keenan had us in. And we pitched to him. And he was like, eh, maybe. Go back and come up with some more. So we went back and came back in with like 30 pitches. He was like, ah, maybe. And we came back in with another like 15 pitches.

And he was like, all right, well, these guys at least they'll pitch a lot. So we were the last hires on to that first full season of England. I just remember the first bunches of episodes having such a buzz and it became really quickly a hit. And I thought it was strong. You had some Dave Letterman, former Dave Letterman writers, some really strong writers. Why did he fire most of the people? Yeah, I don't know. It was a, I don't know, compatibility thing.

I think Keenan was trying to make the show a little less political and more sort of mainstream. And, you know, it was a Sunday night show. But I don't know. You'd have to ask Keenan, really. What was your first hit that you were like, oh, my goodness, this is going over well, something that you and Adam small work on together? Well, the amazing thing about in living color was just the writers were, There was a big giant bullpen with offices off of the bullpen.

And the actors were encouraged to come up and just hang out in the writer's rooms and kind of screw around and come up with some ideas. Adam and I had done this thing like a burn victim sketch where we would pretend to be a burn victim. It was pretty dark. But Jim Carrey came in and we started pitching it to him. And he goes, oh, my God, that's great. We should be a fire marshal. So we started just riffing back and forth and came up with Fire Marshal Dell, which was one of the, I guess, darker characters on a living car.

Was there any pushback from Fox? Because eventually that was controversial to some people and how with that character. Was there any pushback from Fox? 100%. The standards and practices got, well, Jim, of course, took things to the extreme. And so when he came out of for the first time. He looked so horrific. The standards and practices guys were like, no way, are we putting that on the air? They made him go back and, like, reduce the sort of burn makeup that he had concocted with an incredible makeup crew,

incredible makeup crew. I didn't live in color. What were the table rates like with the actors? So fun. It was a great, sort of a structure that Keenan did put together because you would, the writers would all get together and pitch like a bunch of stuff on Mondays in a room. And Keenan would say, yes, no, yes, no. And if you got a yes, you were in charge of that sketch. And it would go down to the rehearsal room and we would do like

a table read and then actors would all have notes and then you'd go and take it away and redo it. And continue to visit rehearsals with new drafts throughout the week. And then he'd call out the ones that we're going to make it to air or ones that we were going to shoot anyway. And so you were sort of with your sketch all the way through. What was it like working with Damon Waynes? You worked on the Handyman sketches? Everybody did. Everybody had to pitch, you know, everybody was required to pitch Homie the Clown's Handi Man. You know, it's like they were trying to create a group of characters that would recur. A lot of stuff you couldn't do today.

Oh my God. That show would never make it to air today. No. Who was your favorite to write for one or two people that were the most fun? Oh, David was great. Yeah, strong. You know, Jim, of course, was just a wonderful collaborator, such a hardworking guy. Tommy Davidson was so we just had a blast with Tommy.

Really, anyone in the cast. That was really fun, but those were like sort of our go-toes. What was it like working with fellow writer Paul Mooney? Oh, Paul was, well, he was very drool. And he, when we got hired, I was actually on my honeymoon in Africa. And like, managed to call from Mumbai to into my agents. and he was like, well, you got hired on in living color, so you better get back here right away,

which my wife was like not that thrilled about. And when we got back, you know, we were all the first day, I was jet lagged or whatever, and we were all, you know, talking. And I told them, oh, yeah, I just got back from Africa. And Paul was like, oh, were you exploring your roots there? Like, what was your reason to go to Africa? He was great. He was great.

He was very, um, He was very sort of reserved, but he gave great notes and he was, you know, he was a great writer. You were at In Living Color for two seasons, and I remember watching the Super Bowl live when in Living Color did a half time, they did a couple sketches. This was huge. I mean, I remember the next day, everybody at school talking. You wrote two of the four pieces, correct? Yes, we wrote Jim, the Jim Carrey background guy and what was the other one? Now, I can't remember. That was so funny because the joke basically is that just this guy in the background. They're doing a newscast and he's just trying to hog up all the attention.

Yeah, and we actually shot that sketch. Like, Jim, we were riffing about what we could do when we get on. And, you know, we had a, I think Adam brought his camcorder in. And so we shot it with me being the interviewer and Adam being the, you know, the guy was interviewing. And then Jim would do the background bit. And he just went so crazy. He was like, all right, let's do that. Yeah, it was really, really fun.

I have to ask you about 1987, how were you hired to put together Steven Spielberg's 40th birthday video Citizen Steve? And the number of people that are in this, iconic people, is unbelievable. Everyone from Robin Williams to Michael Jackson to George Lucas, John Candy and Akroy, Dan Aykroyd are the main players in this. How did that come together? What did you do in this? Well, at the time I was working for a company, called ZM Productions that did electronic press kits for, mostly for universal films that were out. And so you'd go to set, you know, and you'd shoot the, you know, a few days on set and do

interviews with the actors. And the guy who was running the company, George Zalum, we were housed at Amblin or outside of Amblin in these trailers. And Kathy Kennedy and Frank Marshall asked George to do Stevens 40th birthday film. And he came to me and said, would you like to do this? I was like, yeah, I would love to do that. Were you in person with all these people, everyone from Michael Jackson to Robin Williams, you went to them? Oh, yeah. Yep.

A few I didn't. Barbara Streisand, I think somebody else, I was doing something else that day. There were a few that I didn't do, but, you know, Michael and Robin was unbelievable that day. I'll tell you this. So Robin, Stephen Spielberg was out of town, so we went into Ambleen and got into Stephen's office and Robin was going to do Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. That was sort of a bit that he wanted to do. We were like, great.

So we go and we were shooting on 16 and 16 had 10 minute reels. You could load onto the film. So it would go for 10 minutes and then the reel was over and you had to stop. So it came in and he was sort of just, you know, very quiet and he seemed like he was just kind of, I don't know, depressed or not that. into it and I was kind of worried. And he sort of looked around the office and then he goes, okay, okay, I'm ready. Let's go.

And so I said, roll and action. And he just exploded into this character. And he just started improvising, walking around, picking up things. And we were just howling with laughter. You know, had to keep our laughter stifled because we didn't want to get on the soundtrack. And after like 10 minutes, the film goes out and they go, we got a cut. We got a cut. And he just sort of dropped.

He sort of sat there and I go, how are you doing, Robin? Was that good? And he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm good. Let's go again. And then he did the same thing again. And if I remember correctly, it might have been three takes. I mean, each one different. The guy was such, I mean, genius gets bopped around all the time.

But I think he was really there or near there. Just an extraordinary mind. Citizen Steve is on YouTube, and it features Spielberg's parents, his relatives, his then-wife, Amy Irving. So John Candy and Ackroyd, there's actually kind of like a throughline plot. Where did you direct them? And can you set this up? Yeah. So Zalum, you know, we were pitching about what to do when we thought Citizen Kane, you know, a mock of a satire of Citizen Kane would be a good structure to do because then you could interview all the people and these reporters.

would be out, you know, seeking the true story of Stephen Spielberg. And Candy and everybody, of course, wanted to do it. And Candy and Acklewood said, that's great. We'd love to do it. And we pitched him the idea. And they go, okay, I'll be this guy, Cal Dushain, and I'll be the reporter. Candy was like, I'll be the reporter. And I really shot it in like, I don't know, a couple of hours in a back room that we just.

It looked good. It looked very good. I couldn't. I thought it was like a full set, like in a soundstage. Yeah, we just sort of, you know, sort of cut it together and I shot it in a way that we could interspers it with as if they were actually interviewing these celebrities. Did anybody say no to do the video for Spielberg? I don't think so. I don't think so either.

I can't imagine. Were you there when they showed it to him? No. No, we were not allowed. It was at a restaurant. And it was a surprise, I think. So they didn't want it. It was just like, oh, we're going to throw a dinner for your.

40th birthday party and then they surprised him with the film. Years later, Mad TV, we're skipping ahead a little bit. You did a piece. This did not air it. It is on YouTube called Schindler's Lost. Tell me if I have this story, right? First of all, it's a Schindler's List sketch. And somehow, how did the script or the video get to Steven Spielberg?

I don't know. I think somebody at Mad TV, had worked on an Amblin project and was very upset. They were worried or upset or both. They were upset that we were doing this, sort of making fun of Spielberg's masterpiece. Can you set this up, please, the premise? It is on YouTube.

Sure. So one of our writers, you know, we were young and completely reckless and we were just trying to be as outrageous as we could. And one of the writers came in with this pitch, Schindler's Lost, where Schindler and his wife are driving to the train station to rescue a group of Jews. And it's the old trope of, you know, the husband won't take directions from the wife and they get lost and they never make it. And so we shot it and we had a huge budget and it shot it in black and white and we had, you know, Nazi uniforms and, you know, it was a lot of extras and it was really a very, very expensive. sketch. Quincy Jones was the guy who hired us to create mad TV. And of course, he was a very good

friend of Stevens, and he got wind of that we had done this sketch by, because I think he was flying in a private plane with Spielberg. And Spielberg, through this person that had been on Mad and then sent the script over to Amblin, like came down on Quincy and saying, what are you doing? you know, you cannot air this. And Quincy calls us and he goes, you got to help me out, man. We can't air this thing. You got to shove it. Steven's furious.

And of course, you know, I had this connection to Stephen. And I was just unthinking and stupid and young. I never should have approved that sketch. But we did it. And I don't know, I'm sure that he was upset about it. Rightly so. And, you know, I apologize, Stephen was a dumb thing to do. It never aired.

So, Mad TV, 14 seasons. You were one of the creators. How did that all come about? Quincy Jones brought you in with David Salzman and Adam. Is that basically what happened? Yes, Adam and I were coming off of In Living Color, and we'd done a couple Polly Shore movies. And I think David and Quincy had gotten the rights from DC Comics.

To Mad Magazine. To Mad Magazine. To do the television show. Ed Gaines, who created Mad Magazine, hated television. Yeah, William Gaines hated TV and would never let a show be done. And then he passes away and they buy the rights. They buy the rights. And so they were just looking for showrunners and that people were coming in and pitching.

And they liked our background. They liked our take on the show, which was to take the magazine and bring it to life. So they hired us to do it. And we shot a pilot. And on the night of the pilot, the Fox guys were like, okay, you got 12. I've never heard that. And then quickly after that, you've got 12 more. So the rest of the season, this is such an interesting time in comedy history. Because in 1995, Saturday Night Live was not doing well. The New York Magazine Chris Smith article came out. It was that summer that they did auditions.

And Lorne Michaels got Will Ferrell and Sherry O'Herry from the ground lanes. You were also looking for talent. Did Saturday Night Live take anybody that you were trying to? get. And can you talk about searching for talent? They got them all. Actually, they got Jack Black, who we auditioned. They got Will and Sherry O'Terry, Chris Catan, I think, auditioned for all these people that auditioned for us and that we were. Jack Black auditioned? Yeah. Wow. He never did Saturday Night Live, but he did a Mr. Show and a bunch of other things. But still, the fact that all these people were there in front of you. Yeah, yeah, it was, it was amazing. And we, man, we've cast in Chicago, New York, LA.

We did a national search. But we lost out to Lauren, and, you know, man, if we had to cast those guys, I think we would have been. I mean, 14 seasons is unbelievable. But I was reading an interview, and I understand this because Saturday Night Live was in a tough place, that when you started, people at the top, you really were thinking we want to take Saturday Night Live down. They're vulnerable, correct?

Yeah, I think that's why Fox felt like, here's a. chance to really to take on Saturday Night Live to come on a half an hour earlier to really take that audience. And we gave them a run for the money, but they, you know, they came back hard and said, got cast. Yeah. In terms of the auditions, who was somebody that you saw right away that you're like, oh my goodness, this is a shoe in? Of course, we're going to take this person. I would say Orlando Jones was just instantly great. Really, the cast that we had, Artie Lang, 100%, Deborah Wilson. Nicole Sullivan had never done any sketch or improv.

She was great. She mentioned that you had no experience whatsoever. Yeah, I think she had just come off. She'd almost been cast on friends, actually. Oh, wow. Sort of slumming it by coming into a sketch show, and she was extraordinary and cast her right away. So is this true?

For the writers, I think it was 12 writers that you hired, Each one in the beginning of the week would pitch like five sketches or so and then you would take the ones that you liked and assigned them to write it and then you would do the read-through? Yeah, we just used the same formula that Canaan had done. So we, you know, everyone would come in with everyone was required to have five pitches on Monday morning. We'd listen to them all and we'd call out the ones we didn't like and then they'd write them up and then we'd read them and we just kept winnowing it down. But it was very similar process. How long did it take for you to realize that the actors and the writers were kind of had different visions and weren't necessarily getting along all the time as sometimes creatives do? When did that start?

You know, it was pretty early on. We had, we realized that it was going to be really tough to create a cohesive company with just people who were meeting for the first time. And so we brought in an improv guy, Andy. Andy Daly? No. What was his name? Gosh, I can't remember. He had a big book out on improv.

He was a great improv teacher. I think he did a lot of groundlings work. And so we brought him in to try and sort of integrate the writers and the actors and get everybody to, you know, and it kind of worked. But I think, I don't know, you know, we were young showrunners. and we didn't pay enough attention to the cohesion of the company. And so, yeah, there was definitely some conflict between the writing staff of that. If you don't want to talk to this, we don't have to.

I'm not going to mention the person's name, but there was somebody at the top that was basically telling the actors, if I have this right, that the writing is bad and getting them riled up and kind of had. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Is that accurate? Yes. was that is accurate and it was it was tough it was tough yeah doing an hour of sketch comedy even saturnet live have they have the you know the musical acts or whatever the burden of doing and sketch is you know you don't have the the same characters and same sets as like a sitcom everything has to be

reinvented that's why you want to do recurring characters yeah um but it was it was a really really tough and grueling show. And we were inexperienced. And there was a guy at the top who wasn't all that happy with how we were running things. And he sort of made some trouble. That happens.

The four actors that you and Adam let go, was that the network that wanted them gone? Or was it that you wanted them gone? And how did you tell them? Boy, you know, I can't. can't remember exactly what the impetus of that was. I think part, you know, we were very much, you know, the network was trying to create a franchise that would last forever. So they were very involved.

And Saturday Night Live, they'll, they get rid of people all the time. So that's, it's, that's going to happen. Yeah, it's kind of the nature of sketch. Yeah. I was going to ask about, that you did this almost Andy Kaufman Fridays type thing with, with a professional wrestler, Brett the hitman hard in 19. Can you talk about that? And did the cast know what was going to happen? And obviously Will Sassau did, but can you talk about that?

Well, one of the things in the network mandated was that we bring in a guest star. And one of our writers, our head writer, Brian Hart, knew. Brett the Hitman Hart. Brett Hart. He knew Hart from Canada. I guess they weren't some out. Maybe they had done something from, I can't remember.

They'd worked together before. So he recruited him to come in, and he sort of wrote that sketch and, you know, oversaw the madness that ensued. Yeah, because basically Brett gets upset, and he puts Will Saso in a wrestling move, and the way the cast acts is like, is this for real or not?

And there's a little bit of mystery there. Yeah, I think it was all improvised, and people were a little bit. not sure what was going to happen next, which is a thing. At what point did Seth McFarland, the family guy, almost become shorts, kind of like The Simpsons with Tracy Allman. Obviously, that didn't happen. I heard it was a budgetary thing.

But at what point in Mad TV was that going to happen? Well, he presented it to the show to us. And we went to Saltsman and Quincy and the network to say, look, let's do this. This is incredible. This guy, we always wanted animation. We had the spy versus spy in the first couple seasons. And there was a dispute over ownership, really, of who would own the show.

And I think Seth eventually just walked away because he wasn't going to give as much up as they wanted to. Smart man with ownership. We were heartbroken, heartbroken. How did the network Fox not own the show? This was Quincy Jones, his production company, owned the show. So then, you know, Fox wasn't really, didn't have any big stake in promoting it as much as maybe some of the others. How did that happen? I've never heard of a show that wasn't established with somebody being able to get ownership like that.

Well, at the time, the business was that production companies would own the shows and they would license them to the networks. Okay. For the most part. But right around that time, there was all this vertical integration happening. So it happened to In Living Color and Keenan Way. Wayans, you know, Fox, I think, took ownership and then sold it to FX. They did for very little money. Pannies on the dollar, which infuriated Keenan and he sort of, you know, I mean, he didn't abandon

the show, but he did not. He wasn't there full time after that. Rightly so. I mean, they took a lot of money out of his pocket. So at the same, so, and I think Quincy and David were unwilling to hand the show over to Fox, the ownership of the show over to Fox. And so Fox, you know, had less incentive to promote it as much as they might have, had they owned it. I would imagine if Fox owned it would probably still be on the air. Could be. I mean, your show really pushed the envelope. Nicole Sullivan mentioned that they were doing the Darlene McBride's sketch and the audience started to boo.

Do you recall that? And how often would that happen that the student? audience would turn on the show. I mean, I vaguely remember it. I don't think that happened all that often, but, you know, it was a raucous crowd. We would bring in, like, I mean, we were desperate to get audiences at sometimes.

They would bring in, like, Marines from a base, and they'd all be hammered and, you know, ready to, like, heckle. Or, you know, it was just, it was like, in some ways the live audience thing was, was like, you know, a crapshoot, really. Yes. Who were the writers that you initially hired that you were happy with? Patton Oswald, Blaine Capatch.

I mean, those guys were incredible and went on to such, you know, great careers. With the censor, what was maybe the biggest dispute with a censor at the time? Because I know that that was an issue, standards and practices. they were on the set all the time and they were constantly hectoring us we had one sketch it was all about anal leakage and there was a product that was going to that was going to plug up like prevent anal leakage oh scott thompson it was scott thompson kids in the hall was there that was yeah right and and the network kept insisting that the that when we'd show the liquid that it would be a certain color and we i don't know we just had such a long

dispute about it and eventually we sort of just tweak the color and post to make it look more brown. I mean, it was just disgusting, really. So that was one now. Why did you leave after three seasons? We got an overall deal. And we, Dick Blasucci, who we had hired, you know, who we brought on to run the show was a very capable guy. It's such an experience, a great experience in sketch. And so we thought, oh, the show's in good hands and we went on to, you know, we wanted to create other shows and move into other territories. Did you ever go back to either visit or guest write? Did you have any desire?

We did a little bit, you know, we helped with sort of the casting for the first couple of seasons. We were there and we would, you know, review sketches and give notes and stuff. But we didn't want to be those guys who were hovering around and kind of, you know, clipping Blasucci's wings. And we just, you know, we, and he did a fantastic job. I mean, that's, we owe him a huge debt because I think he really positioned the show to last as long as it did. Who are some of the hosts that you really enjoyed working with that you brought in? Queen Latifah was fantastic.

God, who else do we have that we loved? Hallie Berry was great. Big names, yeah. Yeah. Just some of those people were so down to do whatever. They were really committed and yeah, we had a great, great run there. And then for music, was that your idea to put the music, or was that Fox that wanted the music guests from time to time? I think we, I can't remember.

I think we pitched it. And Fox was like, sure, yeah, you can do that, you know. And so we, you know, we got. And it was really just inspired by In Living Color. You know, they had some incredible acts on In Living Color. And we thought, oh, we should do that too. and it also lightened the burden of, you know, having to write more sketches. Did you take the cast, you and Adam, take the cast of Mad TV at the end of the season at Las Vegas?

Yeah, we did a Vegas trip. What was that like? Oh, man. Well, we had quite a few sort of trips. I think Fox sent us to Mardi Gras. Maybe it was on the first season to do a show there. And we're for Saturday Night Live. Not really, but yeah.

It was great. You know, we had a great time. I think we probably drank a lot and gambled and, I don't know, you know, had about dinners. Were you aware that Arty was having some, Lang was having some personal issues? He's been very public about this, which is the only reason I'm bringing it up. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's told the story on Stern many times. Yeah, that was a crazy day when he, I mean, I'm not talking out of school because he's told the story so many times.

We were, I think it was a pre-light day, or it was like the day the day before we were going to shoot. So we were getting all the sketches up on their feet and getting things lit and camera blocking. And Nicole Sullivan called and said, Artie was at my house all night. He's been up all night. He was doing Coke. I'm really worried about him. He's following me in, but he seems like he's falling asleep at the wheel, you know, at the red light. We were like, oh my God, so we, you know, I mean, I'm sure already, I mean, already was furious that we did this, but we called his manager and his agent and they came right over to the studio and we were going to, and David, I think Saltsman came over.

We were going to have an intervention, really. And we wanted to get him into rehab. I mean, it had been sort of evident that there was, there was an issue going on. and so he gets to the studio and somebody says oh you know go to fax in the adam's office you know they want to talk to you about the sketch or something like that and he walked in and he saw his agent his manager david salzman all of us sitting around he knew immediately that this was going to be an intervention he was like fuck this and just bolted and i chased after him and uh chased him through the lot and he was throwing chair and he was throwing chair and cones and screaming at me and he got to his car and opened the door and was trying to put the key into the ignition and I reached in and grabbed it and he sort of shoved me and it slammed against the car door and fell down and he was like fuck you motherfucker you know and he like ran off and I chased him down vine street um and he was just completely out of control he went into an albert's and started throwing food around.

And in the meantime, someone had called the cops, and the cops came and, you know, sort of subdued him and took him to the hospital. I can't even imagine. Yeah, put that in your memoir. How was it working with Alex Borstein? Oh, she was great. She was, you know, she's just an extraordinary talent,

and she came in with all kinds of characters, some characters that could never be done today, cultural, you know, Miss Kim would never make the, you know, would never get past anything these days. But she was wonderful. I really, really enjoyed her so smart. So, such a good writer and improviser. She's amazing. Yeah, she's really, really strong. George Lopez had a late night show, a talk show on TBS. And I know that you and Adam were contributing writers. How was that experience? I was really fun. We'd never done late night.

And so it was a new experience for us. And we were there for, I can't remember. They brought us in as guest writers for, I don't know, five or six episodes. And, you know, George was, again, just a mega talent, super involved with the writing. You know, I mean, he was tough. I mean, he wasn't a, you know, if he didn't like something, he'd let you know. He wasn't shy about telling you that, you know, go back and do this again and I need something better. But, yeah, it was a great experience.

Great writers. They're great writers. What was that like show running House of Buggin with John Leguizamo? That was pretty mad TV, correct? Yeah. Yeah, that was right after in living color. And it was great. You know, we, let's see, we went and he had been put together a cast.

I think they did it on stage for a little while to sort of put together, like to call together a great cast. And so we came out and sort of co-wrote the pilot episode with them in the cast. And then I think they wanted to go in a different direction. And so they sort of, you know, they let us go. And they...

It happens, different visions. That guy was so talented. I saw him on Broadway, like, was Amo. Oh, my God. He's phenomenal talent. Yeah. John, all praise to John Leguizamo and David Barcats. Great playwright.

Those guys are super talented. What was it like working on the Jamie Kennedy experiment? That was such a huge show. And then you worked, I know, on Malibu's most bonded with him. And I know you did some work on a son of the mask. At least you were accredited on IMDB. What was that experience like? Oh, that I think probably might have been.

It's my favorite television experience. Why? Hidden camera is it's such a high wire act. I mean, you have no idea if you're going to get the bid or not. Everything has to be planned meticulously, and yet it's entirely improvised. And so it was sort of the whole way of conceiving of how a scene would unfold and how you would try and manipulate an unsuspecting person into various. We really tried to make it to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to

create a long form, a longer form hidden camera thing. You had to create a scene in which there was some sort of a moral dilemma, where you were taking the person and making them make a choice one way or another, where the comedy would come from. And I just, it was just... Do you have a favorite bit or a favorite sketch that you remember that had in camera? One of my favorites was the one we shot in Miami. We went on the road with that show quite a bit.

when we shot in Miami where Jamie played a scientist who had, I think Matt Lawton came up with this bit. Jamie played a scientist who had invented a machine that would translate dolphin squeaks

into English. And we brought a guy in, the guy was like a total stoner, brought in to be a security guard for the day. And he was assigned to this particular machine to look overlook it so nobody would get there. Jamie's playing this scientist, of course, you know,

which is just ludicrous anyway with his whole persona. And as soon as the guy, the mark landed there, Jamie was like, I have to go do something else, just make sure that nobody messes with the equipment. And we had a trainer there and we had a dolphin come up. And there was a microphone right over the water and the dolphin would squeak. And then Adam was just upset and he would be the voice of the machine. And so the dolphin started talking, he was like, hey, how are you doing? And the guy was like, oh my God, this thing's talking to me. And so we had this whole scenario where the dolphin was like complaining that he hated Jamie, that he hated the scientist because the scientist had separated him from his girlfriend. And he was trying to get the guy to go and get his girlfriend and get the,

you know, other dolphin to come into the pool with him so that they could have sex. I mean, it was just like the most insane thing. And this guy was completely. It was just an amazing bit. How hard was it to get people to sign releases? I'm guessing that there's some really good stuff that was filmed that if somebody doesn't sign a release, I don't know how you get away with that. You know, it was amazingly easy because what we did was the way you do a show like that is you, we had an accomplice team. And they would go out to malls and public places and they would talk to people and say, hey, do you have a friend that you would like to prank?

Okay. And a lot of people go, oh, yeah. And then you'd get like, you'd interview the accomplice and get a psychological profile. This is the, this is what the person might be susceptible to do. So then we would go and we would, we would, you know, assess those, those profiles and write bits for that particular mark. But then we have the accomplice on set. So as soon as we revealed, you know, that we'd shoot the bit. And as soon as we revealed that it was all a hidden camera thing, the accomplice was the first, we would send the accomplice right out and be like, I got you, I got you. And so it, it sort of lessened the blow. And it was all fun. And people genuinely were, or generally were like, yeah, sure, I'll sign, you know, and we're on TV. I mean,

it was. No, people love the show. It was a huge head. What was it like going back to work with your pal David Allen Greer for Comedy Central for Chocolate News. Oh, it was great. David was, you know, he presented this idea and he asked us to run it for him. And we, oh, it was just great. It was like, you know, a reunion with David who's such a friend. Comedy Central just let you do your thing or did they, were they hands on with notes? Or how was that experience? They were great. I mean, they were very hands on. I, you know, I don't know. I mean, I think we, you know, I think I rubbed Gary the wrong way. Gary, man, by doing some bit that he didn't like.

I can't remember. So, sorry, Gary. Yeah, like Gary. You have done so much in your career. We've covered a lot of this, everything from the sketch comedy right into Stevensfield, Brooks 40th birthday. And then I have to mention this.

In 1991, I remember seeing this when I was in high school, Heart of Darkness. How did you possibly make this? happened this was apocalypse now they had all this footage how did you know to go to the coplas and and did you know that they had all this footage just sitting there well i mean again the same guy who recruited me to do the spilberg um 40th birthday george zloom um i was working for george at the time doing the epa's and he came to me goes i just read ellie copla's book notes and she talks about shooting all this footage have you ever heard of a documentary i said no and he goes i'm going to call zoetrope

He called him. Zootrope was like, sure, yeah, come on up. Let's talk about it. You know, we can't, they tried to cut it, I think, for a couple, for a few years. And it was such a massive thing. And I think Ellie sort of wrote the book instead of cutting the film. It was very difficult, I think, for an in-house project. I can't believe it was that easy just to get them to say, sure, here's the, it was 80 hours, right? Something like that. Yeah, they had 80. She had 80 hours. She shot it on 16. We cut it on 16. But so what, so, you know, And again, they were a little bit like, well, guys, you know, some of the footage is out of focus and we don't know how good it is. They were, I think they were just coming off of like editors sick. You know, we were unable to kind of deal with the scope of the thing. And so we said, well, let's look at a couple of reels. They gave them to us. And we strung those things up and it was like, this is gold. What Ellie shot is gold.

And so I went and wrote an outline basically for the film. for the documentary and took it back to Zoetrope and they were like, great, let's see if we can sell it. I cut a reel and went to around the various studios and eventually Showtime embraced it and we were off

and cutting. I had a great editor, Michael Greer. We started, you know, we logged all the footage and started cutting it and then I got hired on the Living Color at the same time. So I was like, I would go in and work with Michael Greer from like 6.30 in the morning till 10 on like Vietnam and apocalypse now and all this really heavy stuff. And then I would and then I would go over to the offices of In Living Color and start pitching home with a clown sketches. It was just the most schizophrenic.

What a strange time in your life. Was there anything that Francis Ford Coppola asked to be edited out of the doc? Oh yeah. What were those things if you can share them? Well, one thing was, I've shared this before, so, but Marty Sheen told a story of when he went, the first day he went to the Kurtz compound and they were going to shoot the scene where he, you remember, but he walks up the steps and there are all these body parts. Severed heads strewn around from Kurtz's madness. And he starts, you know, walking through the set and they're figuring out where he's going to walk and all the stuff.

And he goes, man, the art department did an incredible job because of these, these body parts look incredibly real. And the art department guy was like, oh, they are real. We went to a medical school and got all these cadavers. And she was like, oh my God, no way.

I'm not doing this. This is satanic. Get these out of here or whatever. And in the meantime, I think the Philippine police or military military police had got wind of this. And they came to the set. And they were like going to arrest everybody.

And somehow they worked it out and they got, they sent the body parts back and then they went to the art department to do it. So it was such, it was so amazing. And it was a testament to how far. I mean, I think Francis really, you know, empowered the entire everybody on the crew to go there, to go to the furthest. And I think they were just sort of doing what they felt was the mandate of the script. I mean, I think nobody was like, but I think it's also they were so crazy and out there and often this wild world that they didn't sort of recognize how horrific. So Copla asked for that section about Martin Sheen talking about using real bodies that out. Was there anything else that you can recall?

Well, there was, yeah, there was another thing. I'm not sure if I can really talk about this. But, yeah, I don't think I can really go. Okay, we'll talk about it after if you're all right. We'll not report it in. But was that nerve-wracking when you had the final cut and you showed it for Francis Ford Coppola? Oh, yeah. Oh, my God.

When he saw it, what was his immediate reaction? Well, at the time, I had hired an actress to read Eleanor Coppola's passages from notes, sort of as the de facto narrator of the film. And so finished the film and Francis sat there for a second. My heart is pounding. Is it does he hate it? Is he going to say, you know, we have to recut it, whatever. And then he turned to me.

I was sitting right behind him. And he goes, look, it's good. It's really good. I really think you did a good job. You did what I asked you to do. You told the story, honestly. But he goes, the narration is terrible. And he goes, if you get Ellie to come back and read her own passages, I'll give you an A on the film.

And he was so right. I mean, the actress was great. She was very good and she read it beautifully. But when Ellie read it, there was such authenticity to it. So, you know, Francis is one of the great master filmmakers. And he gave us that note. And it was like, yep, okay. And it was better.

Unbelievable. Thanks, Bart. Thanks for talking to us. Your career, everything that you've done, you continue to do. Are you doing something now with Ty Borell? Yes, we have a project with Brian Cranston, Ty Borel, which is... Can you talk about that? What is it called again? It's called Tightrope. And it was Brian Cranston's idea. And the premise is that we found an old 50s detective, like a noir detective show. and shot in the late 50s, black and white, with Mike Connors, who was the star of it. And the premise is that you digitally erase Mike Connors from the show and replace him with Ty Burrell.

And all the rest of the dialogue of the show is the exact same, but we just write jokes for Burrell to be. It was sort of Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid in a sitcom or in a half-hour format. That sounds good. When can we expect that? I don't know, because it was a film, Village Road Show and Village Road Show went into bankruptcy, so we're still waiting to see where it will land.

Okay. Well, looking forward to that. Fax Bar, thank you so much for talking with us. Thanks, Mark. Appreciate it. Thanks for listening. Please subscribe so you never miss an episode. On Apple Podcast, please rate it and leave a review.

Be sure to go to Latenighter.com for all your late night TV news. And you can find my podcast at latenighter.com. forward slash podcasts. Have a wonderful week, and I'll see you next Tuesday.