Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Inside Late Night: Jo Firestone

Episode Date: September 30, 2025

Comedy writer Jo Firestone is the next guest on the new season of Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff. Jo is a comedian, actor, and writer whose late night credits include stints on the Chris Gethard Show, The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon, Ziwe, and most recently, After Midnight, where was the show's head writer and co-executive producer. She speaks at length about her experience working on After Midnight, and how it came to a sudden end this spring in what would end up being a precursor to CBS announcing it was canceling Stephen Colbert's late show and exiting late night altogether.Make sure to follow us on social media (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@latenightercom⁠⁠) and subscribe on all podcast platforms and YouTube ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@latenightercom⁠⁠ to never miss an episode!

From Latenighter.com, it's Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff. Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff. My name is John Schneider, a producer for Inside Late Night, and I'm so excited to bring you another great episode today where Mark will be sitting down and talking to Joe Firestone, who is a comedian, actor, and writer whose late night credits include stints on the Chris Getherd show, The Tonight Show starring Jimmy Fallon, Zeeway, and most recently, after midnight, where she was the show's head writer and co-executive producer. She speaks at length about her experience working on after midnight and how it came to a sudden end this spring, and what would end up

being a precursor to CBS announcing it was canceling Stephen Colbert's late show and exiting late night altogether. It is a fascinating conversation, and I hope you enjoy it here on the Late Nighter Podcast Network. So make sure to subscribe and let us know what you think of the episode. So without further ado, here is Mark Malkoff. Joe Firestone, nice to see you. Nice to see you too. It's been a while. It has. I met you a long time ago. You and your dead were doing a show and I was reached out too. I think you would just maybe, we weren't doing stand up for maybe that long at that point. But you, You and your dad hosted a show called Punderdome.

Was it 3,000? Was that the show in Brooklyn? It was a pun competition. Yeah, he still does it. That's amazing. Yeah, your dad sent me a Punderdome t-shirt. I was one of the judges, and he had me, he sent me a book about Harry Houdini, which was really nice, too.

Okay, great. That's nice of him. Yeah, your dad's the best. He does a Rodney Dangerfield impression. He's very, very good at what he does with hosting. and he's very, very likable, but it's good to see you. So I want to talk about after, talk about after midnight.

And so many, I mean, you wrote for Fallon, you were just on, found. There's so much to talk about it. How did you get hired on, on after midnight? They announced Taylor Tomlson was going to be the host. They were going to be redoing the show. How did you get hired?

You know, I don't, I don't know. I thought it was going to be, I, I think it's one of those cases where It's like, oh, you think you're not going to get the job. And that's the only time you get the job. You know what I mean? Like, I am not very, I like games a lot, and I like late night a lot, but I'm not super internet savvy.

I'm not, like, very online. And, like, they were asking what would be a good head writer in the interview. And I was, like, probably someone who's, like, 23, really good at Internet, really like fresh and they I guess ignored me and then I also think that uh uh they were like at one point they were like so what is your strength as a head writer and then I said riffing and then they're like could you give us an example and I was silent um so I just could you know what I mean Like, I'm shocked that I got the job. I think maybe what if I had,

what's, maybe what's the other deal was when I first got on the Zoom, you know, baby Dal Dixon. Of course, yeah, no, he's a legend. He started at William Morris. He manages, I mean, he represents everyone from Colbert to Kimmel. Yeah. So he was the first person to sign on to the Zoom. And his Zoom, all I could see was, like, the top of a Lincoln Town car and the plume of a cigarette, like just the smoke coming out.

And I was, I really, I just, I guess we talked about cigarettes for a bit before anyone else came on. And maybe that's what, you know, it's hard to say. If Baby Doll hadn't been on there first, I don't know. Maybe it was just a couple people needed to talk about cigarettes. That might be it. I mean, you're very funny. You're very likable. You have impeccable credits and also that performing background.

But I have to ask this question. So when the trades announced that you were going to be the head writer of this show and so many comics need jobs, like, does your email inbox just, is it just like unmanageable with a number of people that reach out to you that day or the day before that are like, can I submit or can you get me a job? Like, how, I've never been in that situation. Is that what happened? And how did you handle that?

Yeah, a lot of people reached out. I mean, there were like no jobs. It was like, I think right before the strike was announced. So there really were like no jobs at all. And I couldn't even read packets because there was the strike. So I couldn't, you know what I mean? Like, I think that they got packets before the strike. started and so they had all these packets but I couldn't read them and so I just kept a list of

everybody that reached out to me that so then I can make sure to like read their packet or it but it's it is like I guess on some level it's overwhelming because so many people need jobs and like there's this kind of idea that maybe you could give them a job but it never really quite works like that Like, it's like, yes, you could say that you want to hire them, but then you got to get eight other people's approval, and then maybe they want someone else. And so then you say, okay, well, you know, it's always like, it's, I wish it was very simple, but I think it's a little bit more, um, I wish, like, I wish it was just like, okay, I have all the power. I'm going to give you a job. And then it was, but that's never really quite what it is. There's just a lot of cooks. There's a lot of cooks in the kitchen. How many packets do you estimate that you read?

And what was the packet like that people had to write? People had to write a packet about, I think it was, they had to write, it was like based on the old show, the packet, so that it was like, right, like, the, I think it was called Rapid Refresh at the time. It's like a, the opening act one, I think they had to do some of like those kinds of jokes and setups and then they had to do some hashtag wars and some game ideas, I think is what they had to do for the packet. And how many of those did you have to read? And what was that the process? Like I would think his head writer, you would be able to like, oh, this is the funniest person.

I want this person. But how many did you have to read it? And then where did they just went up to all the producers with want to read it? I can't see Stephen Colbert being like, I like this packet, but I don't like this packet. Well, he, no, but he read a lot of them. And so he was like, he had opinions too you know what I mean like he obviously wanted he wanted he well you know I think he identifies with writers and I think he comes from a performing comedy writing background so it's like I think he knows what he wants in a room and um everybody kind of brought their own experience and has you know has people that they see where their value could come in and uh you know yeah but I think it was something like

I don't remember I have a really bad memory but I'm the number that's coming to me and I don't know if this is right but I think it was like 1,600 packets and you read all of them? I yeah that Robert Smigel said when they launched

Conan anybody that this is unsolicited that would send stuff to NBC he read every single packet I was going to guess maybe a couple hundred but 1600 for how much How many writers did you have? Was it 10 maybe?

Something like that? I think initially we got to hire eight maybe. Wow. So you're just covering, is it just that you cover up all the names and you're just, this is funny, this is not funny and it's pretty evident for, I guess, maybe certain people that don't really get the voice of the show and they're eliminated. I mean, it's kind of like a reality show in its own. But that's the thing is that you don't really, when you're starting a new show,

you don't really know the voice of the show you know so like we didn't know I didn't know the voice of the show like I knew what I thought was funny and then I knew what other producers thought was funny and then you try to kind of balance that and then you know at that point I hadn't like Taylor wasn't really involved in the in the picking of the initial room so then you know you you kind of have to I know and I wasn't super like close with Taylor at the time we got to be close but it at the time we didn't really have a working relationship because we were just two people independently hired. So then it was like, I was just kind of guessing what the voice should be, hoping that this would be it. And yeah. What were your suggestions to the producers on any changes from the

original version hosted by Chris Hardwick? If there were any differences or things that we might want to try, if there were any? You know, I don't know if I can think of like, I mean, I think it did change quite a bit over the course of the show. We got, I think that it became more about trying to make, I think it became less, because of the way we had to write so quickly, I think it became less about, like, I think that first act was definitely about the internet and what was happening in the news. And then I think as the show, like, as it got later in the,

evening, I think it would be, it kind of became more about just like getting the comedians to shine. And I also think people shined on the original show. But this was just like, the intention was just like, it doesn't need to be necessarily internet, internet focused. It can just be like, let's just make sure that they are funny. With those changes, did that come in from a friend of the show, Nick Bernstein on CBS's end? Was it Taylor? Was it Colbert? Where did the changes with the format has it evolved that come in from from Taylor? Or where did it come from? They came from everybody.

But like, and then we added a monologue. Uh, that was a new change. Like, we kind of just added, like a lot of people had thoughts and then we would try things and we would rearrange things and reorder things and then take things away. And it, uh, it was, it felt like a, like maybe the first season, every show was an experiment where you're like, I, I guess this is going to be the new way to do it. And so it was like nice that people. would watch because I was like, oh, it's not ready yet, I don't think, but people are watching and

it's funny, but it's, I don't think it's like stapled down. I mean, no late night show is stapled down within the first year. And so it's like, it just, you just need that time and that kind of forgiveness of the audience. And I think people were very generous with us. And I think we eventually figured out how to do the show. Yeah. If somebody who was going to be on the show, I'm going to pick somebody at random, like an Andy Richter. How much notice does he get, I'm guessing, like, a script or a loose script from the writers with prepared material, which I'm guessing he can use or he could go off on his own. How much notice would somebody get to prepare if you're going to be on the show? Well, I think they got it as soon as we were done with the jokes.

Could that be the day up? Could that be like three hours before taping? Was that the day before? Mm-hmm. and then they got to look at the packet, pick their jokes, write new jokes, and then, yeah. Is stuff on cue cards for them? Do they have a teleprompter if they want to use that? Yep, both, yeah.

So, because sometimes you would have people that were not, you know, trained comedians that would come, but everything would be pretty much fail-proof. I mean, that they would be, they would have the material that they could go on. So you could have somebody like that that would just go in and feel secure. and not freak out that they have to be witty or funny, that they could maybe go off on their own if they wanted to, but they have everything in front of them, correct? Yeah, well, I think that speaks a lot to the talent department

and the segment producer, Dom, and I think also just, and Alex Wells, who was kind of working with them and preparing them each game before each act, but I think that also it's, there was a set, there was like a system in place in many ways we weren't going in fresh there was a system in place from at midnight which worked and like got you know comedians and everybody to deliver and so we kind of based the whole structure of the sending jokes writing you know what i mean like how the packet is conveyed from there oh hi kitty uh from yeah that's a cat cameo that's never happened with any of my

podcast we have um yeah my cat is um beautiful cat looks like that was boo named after boo rather for mockingbird. But yeah, Boo made a cameo up to get him to sign a release form. So would they have rehearsals then with the contestants? Would some of them want, so they would do a rehearsal? And this is, you were a Paramount, which I think is like the coolest thing ever. I mean, the Broadcast Center would have been nice, too, with the history. But just like a lot, I just kind of thought that they would maybe throw you in kind of like a, I don't know, not like a major like a Warner Brothers Paramount.

But that's pretty cool being on a lot in the history of that place. Yeah, it was cool. It's like a, it feels like a kind of like a, like a rideless six flags. Like, you know what I mean? Because like you go around like, oh, look, there's fake New York. Oh, there's fake Chicago. Oh, there's a water tower. You know what I mean? Like there's a pond with coy fish. There's a cat. You know, like there's like lots of things to see if you need to walk around and, you know, and that, yeah. easily entertained. And then the plaques on all those studio doors. It's like, I remember I went over to visit one of my friends at Dr. Phil and it's like what filmed here, Arsenio Hall, the godfather that was stage 29. That's where we were at the Dr. Phil stage. Oh, really? You were there. Yeah, the godfather, Arsenio, Dr. Phil, to you. That's, that's very good. What are some of the highlights that stand out after midnight, some of your favorite moments behind the scenes or during the tapings that stand out? Um, this is a good time to have a memory. I would say that, uh, I would say in general it was like a really, really good crew and staff. Like they, everybody was like very kind and like, it was, it wasn't like crazy hours. So like, no, I don't think it was like there was not like the, as far as late night goes, it wasn't. crazy hours so it was like just like we were going to try our best with this and it was it felt like everybody's head and heart was like in the we're all steering in the right in the same direction is head writer what was that pressure like how would you describe the pressure maybe what you were

saying that people were super supportive there wasn't that much pressure but to be head writer on some shows as a pressure cooker did you feel that yeah yeah yeah i would say yeah i got like uh Yeah. I would say I felt it. I got, you know, I came away with, you know, gray teeth and patches of white hair. And, you know, I got into a couple car accidents. You know, there was a lot, you know, there's, I would say this, it's an average amount of stress. But I think it's like, that's the job. You get hired to do. You get hired to take on the stress of other people and have people get mad at you. And that is like, that's the whole job. And as far as jobs go, you know, there's other ones that are worse, for sure. When would Taylor Tomlson arrive? Usually on those shows, for late night, they're there all day. But this was a little bit different being a host of essentially, it's a game show. But, you know, with comedians, what were her hours like when she would come into the studio?

I'm not sure when she would get there. because she went to hair and makeup and wardrobe and she would read through things and work on monologue and so yeah she had a different schedule than than I did but yeah so I was kind of in this I was in this very cold room with the writers

and then I would go to this very cold room with the with the booth people and that was I would just walk different cold rooms. Who were the best contestants? People that could just show up and wing it and be effortlessly funny without much preparation. Who would some of those people be? Would you say that were contestants?

Well, everybody had preparation. I would say, like, everyone was like, there was a, like, even if they're like, I don't want preparation, they got quite a lot of preparation, I would say. But that, I would say that, like, Sears and Meadow was amazing. Lisa Gilroy was amazing. Guy Branham was always amazing. Marcel Argoeo was always amazing. Thomas Lennon, really good.

All Tompkins, Maria Bamford. Some of those people that were on all the time were... Arnon and Cherlow was so good. Yeah, they were so good. And some of them would bring in their own material. Yeah, like Kurt Brunler one time. He called his daughter on the show to tell her that he lost. It was beautiful.

It was beautiful. When stuff like that would happen. What were the test shows like? Was Stephen Colbert there for those test shows and for like the first taping? Was he hands on? He was there for the first taping, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

What were the test shows like? The test shows. I don't, I, uh, I think they were, in my memory, I'm thinking the one word is coming, I don't know, lots of games. We tried lots of games. And to the point where I was like, oh, these games need to go because we've played them too much. But yeah, I think they were, I wish, I wish at these times, if you were like, hey, what did you do today? I'd be like, I can tell you this. No, I get that. I've talked to people,

I've worked at a day job at the Colbert Report for 30 years and eight months, but who's counted? And I would be with people and we'd be with like an A-list people and stuff would happen. And I'd be like, do you remember that? And they're like, Mark, I don't, I have no recollection of that whatsoever and I'm just like I get it it's constant it's just you remember it though I have a problem with my memory not a problem it's a problem where I remember everything from the time where I could tell you who my nursery school teacher was when I was three years old and two years old and there's something wrong with that's amazing that's really amazing yeah I had David cross on this podcast and this was something from like 30 years ago or something I was like this is what my recollection of

our conversation. I went blah, blah, blah, did this, is this true? Is this true? And we went through everything and it happens a lot where things were confirmed so well. Yeah, it's a, it's for something like this, it's good for me. Like I just, we had Jonathan Groff on from Conan and I was able to recollect some stuff from like probably 30 years ago or 25 years ago and stuff. And it's just something wrong with me. No, I think it's really good. It's a really good skill to have, especially with with the late night field, because there's so much of it. It's like not, it's like you're, you get like three to four times the memories because

you have to do a thousand shows. You know what I mean? It is good to, yeah, I'm good with the memories on that, but at the same time, second grade, my second grade teacher who is not nice to me, this stuff is like, we'll just come to me. And it's like, why did you be like, you shouldn't have been a school teacher. You were not good with kids. You still think of it. I guess it's like, I think maybe what my.

I'm hoping this is a strength, is that I have the, maybe the brain of a mosquito, right? Where it's like, what's today? What's for lunch? Where are we going? Where are we go today? And then we started all over again. And maybe that's an advantage in some places. But, yeah.

So how did Taylor Tomlson reveal to the staff and crew that she was leaving? because oftentimes when somebody says something like this, it gets leaked instantly. And it has to be done in a certain way where I would think that they didn't want it leaked, that they would want the people there to know first before it got out because you can tell the staff, you can tell crew, you can tell whoever,

just please keep this quiet. But time after time, I've seen that get leaked. How did that work? it's kind of like well it's like we had this phone tree system that we'd set up during the fires

so it was like you check in with certain people those people check in with certain people and you just make sure everybody's okay and so that was you know that that being a precedent the fires were terrible but that kind of system in place kind of helped us with this situation

but yeah Taylor called me and told me and then the next morning I called my department, everyone in my department, before we went in to tell them so that they had a little time to process it. And then that happened with other departments too. The heads of the departments called their people and then just to let them know so that they weren't finding out either with the rest of the world or with, yeah, so everybody kind of knew. before there was a big meeting. Those jobs are so all-consuming. Were you surprised?

I mean, it's tough because Taylor's like this amazing stand-up. And to go out there and people are paying so much money and they're paying, and I'm just not saying for her, but I'm just saying in general, they're paying money. They're getting babysitters. A lot of them are driving and just go in on the trend. It's Taylor for her to get up or any stand-up, you want to give them the best and you want to have that energy.

And sometimes these things are, unless you're Jay Leno and a robot cyborg, for the most part, most human beings, it's very hard to be able to have the energy to do both of these things. Were you surprised when that she, that could you tell that this was foreshadowing that she might want to step away? I didn't know she was going to step away, but I think that she, you know, she really was working every single day and she was doing these road shows, which are no joke. I just got to see one at Beacon Theater. It's like, it's like a long show that's really well crafted and she delivers. Like she really, it's like, she makes it worth the ticket. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, this is a great show.

It feels good. It's like, how long was she on stage roughly if you had to guess? I don't know. That was the great thing about it. It was I didn't think about the time. And I'm like, that's a good performer. When you don't think about the time, that's good. That's powerful.

Because in like, you know, some performers, you're like, this is minute eight. You know what I mean? And that's not, she's not like that at all. And so I think it's like there's only, I think she was kind of giving it her all for every single job she had. And I think that both are jobs. You probably can't really do both. You know what I mean? It's like it's a lot of work.

Who made the decision for the guest host? Who was? I'm usually so prep it. I know that after a minute there was a, there was a somebody stepped up to guest host. Lisa Gilroy did. Yes. And she was excellent. And I, Lisa, I'm sorry. We'd love to talk to you and have you on. How was that decided? Were there other names being floated around for a guest host? That is unfortunately above my pay grade. I was just told. I was told Lisa's doing it. Call her. And I called her. And that's great. You know what I mean? I like, I think that that is to be a, showrunner to be in talent booking, that is a, those are both jobs that I don't believe I could do. Those are really hard jobs and you have to know a lot of information that I didn't have to know, which is never occurred to me that they wouldn't get another host. At what point did you, were you told that they weren't going to continue with the show? I mean, I know Taylor Tomlson kind of figured, just you're going to get somebody else. I mean, there was so many people would have wanted that gig, and I was very surprised, but how soon did you find out

that it wasn't going to go on after she made the announcement? Oh, that's when we found out. Yeah. That they weren't. Oh, yeah. They announced, when they announced that she was leaving, they announced that they weren't going to continue. I forget. I thought that. She wanted to find another host, but I don't think it was in the cards. Did you keep in touch with Jimmy Fallon during this time? Because you were a writer at the show from 2016 to 2018. It was so nice when you would show up on the show

and you'd stand up on the show. In June, they had you back and we'll talk about you're a correspondent, but did you keep in touch with Jimmy during the years after you left the show? Or how did you get called back to do the show? I'm not sure. I don't know why any of this happens.

Because you're funny and you're dependable and people love you. Okay, that's nice. I don't, I mean, I feel like it's like every time I'm like, well, that was a nice last job. But that's, you know what I mean? That's how this business goes. But I think that, yeah.

Detachment is a very powerful thing. There's so many people that we both know that are just like, I need to get the next job. And it's just like that energy is not great. It can really help you. It doesn't really help to be like. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely good to have. Maybe I'm anti-manifist.

I mean, having ambition and having goals and that's good. But yeah, there's just, yeah, there's somebody. I know you're not on social media, but that I know of anymore. But yeah, people love you. And she should play Carol, Carol Kane in the biopic. And I was reading what different people were writing in comments. No, but people absolutely love you. How did you get hired at Fallon in 2016, 2018?

Did they ask you to do a packet? Did you want to write there and do a submission to write? I did want to work there. I had worked on, before that I had worked on the Chris Getherd show, and I'd written a pilot, I worked written on a pilot for Arthur Meyer and Comedy Central, and then he ended up going to work. I guess he became, he went back to the Tonight Show,

and then the two of us that were, on that pilot were hired as well as two others. Were you on the sketch side or the monologue side? I was on the sketch side. That's so much more fun than the monologue. I mean, it's different muscles for sure. How did your meeting go with Jimmy when they brought you in before you were hired? What was that like?

I didn't meet with Jimmy. Wow, everybody I've talked to for the most part had a meeting with Jimmy. And then after they got hired, they'd play a video game with. him but you didn't have any of the video game i played video games later but not then nope you played with him uh i played we played a lot of uh what's that game called squatch squatch catch catch kit kit there yeah skid mark what is it called that's like the thing i know pacman and mario brothers no it's like the thing where you write jokes on your phone um i you know what i Quads quash quash quip lash

There we go Quiplish Joe to the buzzer you got it Now what are some of your favorite moments from being From writing on Valin Just backstage moments and just stuff that you were in I mean you played I know was it Miss Backup Ohio

You played Kelly and Conway And some other Some great pieces where you were doing remotes What stands at is some of your favorite moments from Fallon. It was like a lot of I would say like that crew is also in like the staff there

is so nice like they're just such good people and it was just like I think that it was a lot of it felt really cool to be working in 30 Rock and to be like you know

it just felt like so different from anything I'd ever done and and that like my family knew what it was and like they were like they like people had heard of I don't know it just it felt like a very cool thing it was also like a very weird time you know in general for the country and it was um yeah but I think that it was like um I ended up working there and then um stepping away and then coming back, and then I had a personal tragedy, and then I stepped away and then stopped working for a bit.

Yeah, you wrote a piece, the New York Times about tragedy that I'm sure helped a lot of people. Was that the Times that you wrote? Was that the piece? Yeah. Yeah, my best friend died, and that kind of made me not quite in this. space to do comedy and write and be around people. No, no, I get it. And working at a show like that, what were the hours like on Fallon, roughly?

I truly wish we had brain swap. I wish so badly, Mark, that we had brain swap. No, you don't because you'd be fixating on when you were seven years old in Arlington Heights, Illinois, and the school bully. is stuffing you in a locker, but we didn't have lockers back then, but it's all good. But typically those shows, a lot of times, I mean, back at Letterman Conan days, they were 12-hour days for writers. I mean, they were, unless you were on monologue, they were really, really tough. Now, who were some of the guests? I saw a photo, for example, I saw a photo of you and Hillary

Clinton and some of the other staffers that you got to work with. But who were some of the fun people that you went backstage to either say hi or you wrote bits for that stand out? I never said hi to anyone. That's kind of my policy. It's just don't speak to. Don't speak unless you need to. Like, I remember, like, sometimes you did have to go in and talk to people. And I remember one of the nicest people was Kate Upton.

Like, she was just so nice. And I knew that what we were asking her to do was, like, I wouldn't have wanted to do it like she had to dance and I was like I and you have to kind of make it seem like you want her to dance and that she's going to have fun dancing and she probably would I'm not a dancer she's maybe more of a dancer than I am and so I was like you're gonna get to dance and she's like great and she was just like so friendly and didn't mind me like shaking and quaking and that's always a nice thing when you would do products and you would show up on the show, would you ever say, you know, I might be good for this role, or would they just kind of throw you in? Would it be somebody else's idea to have you

on camera? It's start, I think it started other people had told me to do it. And then it's, and then yeah, I think that usually it was, like I think if ever, usually it was someone else's idea. I remember always

thinking like, Oh, today. Today is a day that I look really nasty. And then I thought, okay, well, we'll try it. And then, you know, it's like, it's nerve-wracking because you've got to do it in front of the rehearsal audience. And if they- Oh, yes. Back then they don't do that anymore. They had a rehearsal audiences. Yeah. So then if you didn't, you had to make them laugh. And then if you didn't make them laugh, it was, it's not happening.

You know what I mean? Because they're not, you know, they only have so much time in the show. And so you've got to make them laugh. And then you got to make sure that also that you make this show audience laugh. And it's, you know, it's not when you get multiple takes. You just have to go. You did stand up on the show twice, I believe, on the Tonight Show. It might have been more.

But when you first did it, I think it might have been 2019. How did that come about? Again, just from talking to you, it seems like you wouldn't be somebody to be like, you know what, would it be okay if I did stand up on that Tonight Show? It sounds like it would either be a representation, would reach out, or they would just be like, she's so funny, we went around. How did that come about? I feel like I am conveying a story of being like just a ragment in the wind floating.

And I do feel like I, you know, I'm intentionally trying to do comedy and writing. I swear to you, I actively love to write comedy. However, I would say in terms of steering my career or whatever, I don't think that that is my strong suit, and I'm happy to get work when I get it. But it's not like I'm like, how did I end up here? You know what I mean? It's like I understand that I got jobs, and I understand that these are jobs that are hard to get, and that the jobs are rare and special, but I just don't, if you were like, could you do that,

how do you get that job again i'd be like so really i don't think i could get that job you know what it's like very it's always it feels very up to chance what was it like doing stand-up though on the tonight show and getting to do panel and sitting next to jimmy on on the couch afterwards was it fun did you have a good time or was it nerve wracking was it both um i think it was nervous i was very nervous i'm nervous all the time though and it's like it helps though right on stage? No, no, it doesn't. It doesn't. No. It was fun, though. You did great. Now, when you came back to the show in June, and you did cold takes, which was on the street talking to people while they put their heads in buckets of ice water. Was that your creative? Did they give

you the creative and just said, we want you to be, just talk to people? Or how did that bit come about it? What was that like filming? Yeah, I got a call. It was David Young's bit. And I got a call to come in and do it. And I was with my mom. I had just moved back to New York. And my mom and I were, I think, eating cookies at the time. And then I was like, oh, I got to go into this thing. And she's like, wow, this is, wow, to Hollywood. And I thought, I guess so, I guess this is Hollywood. Would you move back to L.A.? Did you think that that was going to be a permanent Homer, did you always know you were going to come back here? Yeah.

That was your permanent move. No, I spent a lot of my income on rent, paying rent, here in New York and also L.A. I think that it was like I was intending to come back to New York eventually. I am in a relationship with someone that lives in New York, and I have this dog. I think the dog was very flexible coming to L.A., but I think the dog, I think maybe is a better fit in New York. Tell me a story, one of your favorite stories about working on the, you're a consulting producer and the Chris Getherd show because it's just, there was just so many magical moments

on that show that would just happen organically where a lot of shows, everything is so overly produced, but there was just something special about that show, but can you just tell us something that stands out? I remember we were for the, I got to work with J.D. Amato twice, so I got to work with him at after midnight and then also first on the Chris Gatherd show. And we were gathered around for the dumpster episode, which was Nicole Dresspell's idea. And it was like, what's in the dumpster? That was the whole episode with Jason Manzukas and Paul Shear. I believe we're the guests. This is like the best my memory has worked. in years. Okay, so then basically we were gathered around and JD was like

we will be getting somebody in the dumpster. Now, I think he gave us a code name. I don't remember what the code name was, but we were all kind of like appointed secret agents to keep this secret from the audience to keep this secret from

you know, like the press or whatever and we all had to kind of work together to make sure that this person was shuttled from the car to the backstage, to the, you know, into the dumpster, then the dumpster onto the stage, and yeah, and then Paul Giamatti came out at the end. That happened.

That was pretty cool. And there was one time we did a show with all, I think, like 30 dogs, and they just kept, I think we didn't realize that they would just keep pissing and shitting the whole time. And I don't, I have never, it's never. smelled worse in a TV studio. I couldn't believe what was happening on camera. I remember this guy Jersey Dave kept having to crawl out and pick up, you know, dirty, dirty wee pads come back. And I was like, this is a grown man that's doing the craziest job I've ever

seen. And that, yeah. In your experience on Light Night Fallon and Chris Gathard and after midnight what are one or two Larry Sanders show type things where if you were writing for Sanders and they were asking because for real stories because sometimes on Sanders would be inspired by you know this person or this story of like backstage at light night were there are there any that you could you'd pitch possibly that you witnessed or saw you don't have to mention names if you don't want to uh you know I'm sure there is I think the one thing that's just coming to mind and this is just a visual thing that I remember fondly is that I was walking down the hall I was running late to do something for the show

I was like trying to scrambling and you're never supposed to scramble just so you know you're never supposed to run that whatever I'm nervous or whatever okay so you're never supposed to run I was scrambling running through those you know carefully glasses whatever and then I ran past five human-sized chickens and I was like what are those chickens doing and then I realized that they were the backstreet boys

they're dressed as chickens and I thought that's you know that's never you don't want to get that every day and one time I was in the elevator with David S. Pumpkins Wow see those are some great much that's what I want to hear those things

not even come Hank's David S. Pumpkins he was in costume he was getting ready to go do a bit and I couldn't believe it I said look this is I'm experiencing this like oh here's here's one thing I remember this is a nice one okay so my mom came to the show and I was you know I'm really I'm really nervous and I just and I don't want to make any bad moves or wrong moves and then I um this I just started the show and uh we were leaving, at the end I'd have to show, I'd showed her around the office, and we were leaving, and Questlove was leaving at the same time. And he was way that down the hall. And she's like,

is that Questlove? And I was like, it is Questlove. And she goes, should we say hi? And I said, no, no, no, no, just leave. Let him, let him be. And she goes, oh, shouldn't we say hi? And I said, ah, I just don't think. And then she goes, Questlove. And then Questlove turned around, and he walked towards us. He's like, hi, how are you? Welcome to the show. It was so sweet, and he held the elevator for us, and then, like, and then on the way down, and my mom was just chatting him up, and I was like, oh, my God, please don't mess this up. And then on the way down, he looked at his phone, and he got a text, and he goes, oh, Beyonce had twins. And my mom was like, oh, my gosh. And that's how we learned that Beyonce had twins.

Historic. Write it down. Take a snapshot in your mind. that's fun that you got to do that you're your parents I never met your mom but your dad is so fun and gregarious in a good way and and so I'm sure that that he was charmed so were you relieved at all

with after midnight that you that the pressure was off because it seemed like it was a lot of pressure that the pressure's awful like most people would be like oh gosh I want this gig to go on forever just they're hard to get the money is usually pretty good but was it a relief I get to move back to New York and I don't have

to the pressures. I can maybe go back to stand up, which is its own pressure. But was there anything that you've kind of like, ah, this is actually, might be a good thing for me personally? Um, I think it was,

uh, you know, I think it's like bittersweet because it's like you don't, you know, you don't want the show to go on any longer than it should. And if people are unhappy, you don't want it. You know what I mean?

But also like, I think it was a good, it was a good, really good gig and it had a lot of really great people working there and uh i felt very lucky to be working there i think that also you know just the nature of these shows nowadays like it's like a lot of shows don't last forever a lot of shows last two to three seasons and then you work on something else and that's kind of it's not like that is unheard of and it felt like I felt like, okay, you know what?

I've been in this place before. And this is, it's not unprecedented, and it's going to be fine. Did you have any foreshadowing? Were you surprised when they announced that Colbert show was going to be canceled? The light show? I was shocked. I was in, um... I was too.

I was watching Superman in theaters. And, um, and my phone was blowing up. And I was like, what? I never get ticks. I never get ticks. a very quiet phone and my phone was blowing up and I thought

oh no somebody's died and then I got out and nobody had died but Colbert was cancer always would help people when they would say about the ratings going down I'm like you don't have

20 plus WGA writers on a show unless it's profitable and there weren't any to my knowledge there wasn't any noticeable downsizing like let's try to save expenses it was the whole thing just completely shocked me. It's really sad. But he was such a nice, such a nice man. And I know

he, on your book, which has almost 200 ratings on Amazon, your book, Murder on Sex Island, you have a nice blurb from Colbert. Now, I know somebody, Colbert gave a blurb to somebody and basically said, if you write it, I'll say it and ask, sometimes ask the author to actually just write the blurb. Did Stephen actually write his blurb or did you write it? We, uh, I think we talked about what it should be. And then he did the final, he did the final copy of it. Yeah, I wasn't really sure. But you have amazing reviews from, um, Vulture and Boston Globe Publishers Weekly. Tell us about your book. Well, I, I wrote it when I was, um, I didn't have a job for a while. And I was like, I love mysteries. I love reading them. And so I was like, maybe I could write like a really juicy, sexy one. And then as I was writing it, I realized I couldn't really make it too sex.

I just couldn't physically bring pen to paper to write sex scenes. And so I was like, dang, this is not as juicy as I wanted it to be. And then it ended up being pretty chaste, I would say. There's almost no penetration in the whole book. Spoiler alert. Sorry, sorry, sorry. And then, but I was like, oh, this will be. this will be great. Maybe I can just be a murder mystery author. And then I tried to get it published and

nobody wanted it. So I self-published it. And then we made a podcast, audio book of it, and then it eventually became a published book. I did another version of it where I sewed up a lot of the plot holes with Bantam. And then it became a book book. I don't know any other book like that, where you self-published the book. Did you try to get it published and you couldn't? And then, and then, and then, Then you, the podcast, and then that's what got you, the book deal. Well, I think more people were able to hear. I mean, it's like they listened to it. They were able to listen to it for free.

And, yeah, and I think that just, I think people were, I think it was maybe just the right time or just, it was just fun to listen. I don't know. It was just like this, I think people like the sexy murder mysteries. They love your book. The reviews and the people on Amazon, I absolutely love it. Oh, good. Is good timing with Joe Firestone still on Peacock? I think so.

I don't think they've taken it down. October 21, they put it up. Now, I don't know if you're still doing this, but you were teaching comedy classes to seniors, weekly class. This was at the Greenwich House Seniors Center. Do you still do that? I do.

We just did it last night. We do it every week. We've done it for a little over, five years now. How do you think that that's affected you? Because, you know, it's just that I, whenever I did a podcast for a long time, eight years where I was talking a lot of older people and I spent time with them, I go into their home. And they just don't, a lot of the times are so uncensored. They don't care anymore. Whereas like sometimes younger people are just very careful, maybe sometimes with what they say. But I just absolutely loved sitting down with the, you know,

with people that were in their 90s and even some people that were. you know, I think a hundred, but what, how is that affected you and what stands out about that whole experience? Like, what, what did, what have it been takeaways? Well, I started doing it because I, I was kind of jaded and felt like kind of bitter and frustrated with comedy and the whole business of it. I just felt like I couldn't navigate it and I couldn't enjoy it. And I just didn't, I just didn't enjoy it anymore. I just thought, do we stand up? It wasn't, it was, you weren't feeling it anymore, getting them up in the audience? No, I wasn't feeling. any of it. I wasn't like those like the auditions and like the trying packets and the just

everything. I just felt like I just couldn't find the joy in it anymore. And so I was like maybe I'll teach a little bit and seeing people that really like it and really want to do it and be around those people. And that was and I was living close to the Greenwich House at the time. And so then I just walked by and I thought maybe I'll ask them. And they were down and then it was like two weeks later the pandemic started so that we were doing it in person for two weeks and then it became a Zoom thing from then on, but

when did the joy come back if it has in terms of you doing stand-up and getting in front of people. Well, I really haven't done stand-up in like three years or so. I didn't know it's been three years. I kind of stepped back. Was it that the time that you did

stand-up and there was a couple that was in the audience making out? Is that, did that, was that one of your last gigs? Because I remember it really was. I'm not even joking. But I remember you going to, you didn't, a lot of times you're doing these, these alt shows in Brooklyn. I mean, you're a comedian that could go in front of any type of audience.

No. I would think that you could. No, I insist that I can't. Well, you sound like Janine Garofalo, somebody that's so accomplished that just doesn't see it, but I feel otherwise. I, there's, I really do poorly in front of a lot of different people. And I just, I think it's like, I, feel like this happens to me over and over again where I was like when I was a kid I really

wanted to be bet middler you know what I mean I just loved bet middler so much I loved what she did I loved her persona I loved all of her roles I loved that she sang I can't sing I can't really act I can't dance okay there's a lot of things there so then I'm like okay maybe I just like watching bet midler true same thing happened with musicals where I was like I want to be a music I want to be a musicals I love musicals. Turns that I just love watching musicals. Same thing happened with improv comedy. Same thing happened with theater.

Same thing happened with stand-up comedy. I prefer to watch it than be. I'm just too nervous. I shake. I tremble. I understand that. I used to do sketch comedy. I don't have this problem anymore,

but I would hyperventilate on stage and I would shake. When I did perform by myself, too, I would have to put my hands in my pockets because my hands would be shaking. I remember I saw one of your shows that, the kids shows. Oh, yeah, to just minimum. You came to that? Oh, that's so nice. Yeah, that was fun. Yeah, thank you for coming to that. But yeah, I was okay. You see, like, if it's kids, for whatever reason, they're not judgmental. Well, they are, but it's, that was, to me, that was effortless. That's how it should be if you're a performer going out there. It should

feel comfortable, but put people, grownups out there. It's definitely increases the pressure. But so, like, if you're in Clayton, Missouri, you're going to Clayton High School. You're outside of St. Louis, there is something that you said, I want to perform. I mean, you started when you were 20, you were at Westland, and you were in a sketch group called Lunchbox. So what you've really done thorough background check. So you have this, you want to do it, but it's, it comes when you find out when you're doing it, you're good at it, but it has this other baggage pretty quickly with the anxiety. Yeah, I think it just, I'm just a pretty nervous person. And I think that I, you know, I think it's also like I'm not the most confident person and I think that easily I'm like it's so easy for me to be like look at one person in the audience and see them frowning and then think the whole thing was terrible and I think that it's like I'm really it's I really don't want to be like that but I I do feel like that like I I mean Maria Banford who I think is one of the funniest people unless something changed will not audition she's like I'll do things if people offer me but I don't

audition, but like for some of these, just looking at some of the audience comments and stuff with you doing Joe Perra talks with you on Adult Swim when you played Sarah and Marina and Shrill, how much the audiences love you? Is it one of these things for gigs like this that you, that you don't audition, that they just give it to you, and if they give it to you, you can shine? But is it, is it the audition process? Did you have to audition for those? No, no. I didn't think you did. That was my guess is that they, if somebody realizes they know what they're getting with you, you're good at what you do and stuff, is that at least a little bit easier of a process where you have a little confidence where they're like

we want you for you no goodness wow no it feels pretty i just feel pretty i don't know i think it's like i think a lot of people feel like this nowadays where it's like they just don't want to be perceived i think that's like a very common thing right now and maybe with social media or whatever but it could be i noticed you're one of the only comics not on it anymore you were on instagram but you're not on anything right i'm one of the only ones out of the comedians i know they live on social media i think a little bit i think that that's so cool though no it's not cool it's really bad it's stupid it's bad because it's like you can't what you can't do like you're supposed to promote stuff that's the whole thing and nobody knows what the

hell's going on i keep trying i did this i did this thing yesterday i was so nervous about it it was this pie tasting festival and i was like nobody's going to come to this thing because nobody knows about it. Well, people came and then we ran out of pie 90 minutes in. But it's like, I think it's like you just, you know, you want people to see your stuff and and, but then also

you kind of don't. It's very stupid. For this pie tasting thing, what was the attraction? Like a lot of times with improvisers, when I get something, somebody to come to me with something that's very odd, I try to yes and it. Even if I have some anxiety, I'm like, you know what? This makes absolutely no sense

and this is ridiculous, but I try to yes and. Is that your motivation for doing that? Or why did you say it was it, did they pay you? Oh, no, I planned it. Oh, you planned it. Okay, so you got the, so you're in love with the idea and you're like, this will be fun. And then the anxiety and just all the trepidation seeps in after you're in love with the idea. Is that, okay, actually, I'll say this, is that I'm pretty good at coming up with ideas.

And I'd say I execute them really fast. They're not well executed. They're not well, I will say this, that I know this, they are not. well executed. There are so many. It's just, I'm not type A. I wish I was type A so badly. Audiences disagree because they love your show. We ran out of 90 minutes in. I couldn't, I couldn't tell you. I was like, please don't use more than one plate. I don't have enough plates. It was just crazy. I just was like, it was so, and then to tabulate the votes on picking a winner, it was insane. I had four people backstage yelling out numbers. I was like, what are we doing?

This could have been so much better organized. And so I just think that, you got to do it again. Are you going to do it again? You have to. I guess, but I think that I need somebody else that's smarter than me. I just, I think there's the thing with all this stuff is that I'm pretty good at coming up with an idea and making it happen. You need a producing partner. I need someone that's smart. I need a smart type A person that can do these things that's really smart. And I'm pretty dumb and fast. And I think those are my two skills. I get mosquito, mosquito life. Fast flying around. What would it take you to get back on stage to do stand-up? Do you think it's just that you'll go back to it at some point? Or you're just, are you over it, do you think?

Because there are certain people that are just like, I did it and I'm done and I don't want to get back. But what would it get it for you to go back? Do you ever think about it? No, well, Love Island's coming back in September, so I got to watch that every night. So I don't know. If something like Estia, the comedy seller called, you were emailed you and you with a spot tonight we really want you you would say i'm sorry i'm just not i'm taking a hiatus right i don't even know a joke i don't even know how to tell a joke and i don't know

what i would possibly say i tried i tried this one joke and it really made people sad and i thought well maybe i shouldn't do stand-up anymore there's there's people that still get up to this day that are doing material from 15 years i don't remember it mark you would be great at that you could do stand-up i bet you could do stand-up for one or seven my wife christine is trying to get me to get back to do stand-up. I haven't done stand-up in forever. So what would it take for you? Honestly, I am so nervous out of my mind.

I have the material, but like, I think I do. I mean, I just, over like time, I just, my stand-up, I would either do really well or I would bomb. There was no in-between. And I just really like doing the concept, the videotaping, I have the edits. So I started doing those stunt videos and started getting on television and making a living doing it.

So I was like, I'm going to, I have, I mean, just that live audience would, I had in my head, and tell me if this is the right process, I was thinking if I start up again, I would just do open mics for a year and not do anything. I don't even know where I would go. There are more comedy clubs now and places to do comedy in New York than ever before, but I wouldn't even know how to start either than, other than just maybe just doing open mics for a year and just getting up and just finding out who I am.

What is your advice for me if I do start getting up? I have no idea. I don't think you need to do open mics for a year. I think if people say, I mean, I think you've carved out a really fun career for yourself. And I don't think you need to be like, don't book me? Like, I think they. Well, I would, but I don't even know how to, don't you have to go to those clubs and be like, I'm going to bring seven people and they're going to pay two drink minimum and they're going to pay a cover trip.

I think you're kind of overshadowing your own contributions to comedy. You know what I mean? You don't have to start fresh. You're not starting fresh. I just have not done stand-up in literally 20 years. But you know people that are doing stand-up and you could ask. You could maybe do two open mics to feel good. Three, five.

I don't know. But don't do it for a year with no shows. That's what I was going to do. That was my whole thing. I wasn't going to even tell anybody that I was doing it either. You're crazy. Don't do that. That's crazy.

You're basically trying to make sure you never do stand-up again. Doing a year of open mics, no shows. I can't believe I'm going to be using this. is a bit but can i can i give you one of the premises i'm working on and see what you can do with and then you can help me with a bit right now i know i can't but yeah you can tell me the premise i'll enjoy that i um well well i can't i don't want to use you like that you're one of my guests okay so one of my things that i think is absolutely ridiculous is um is parents that are very protective of their kids and they're like you're not going to watch this you're not

going to do this but they have they're okay with their parents with their kids dressing up like pirates like i see that on the subway because essentially pirates are terrorists they're terrorists there aren't any you know like like whatever their kid liam and stuff okay we're not going to stay away from sugar we're going to do this but you can play pretend to be a yeah someone that that pillages and murders and that's okay that's okay but i'm just working on that premise but do you like that premise i think that's fun i think that i think that you could maybe make it about how do you have kids? I don't have kids. I have cats, but I am married. But that whole pirate thing is so ridiculous and just the whole Sesame Street thing where they did a parody of Breaking Bad about

Crystal Met and they're showing it to kids. Sesame Street. Yeah, let's watch Sesame Street. And I love Sesame Street. I know people over there. I've been over there. But certain things with parents that are like so protective of their kids, but it's okay that we're doing a parody on Crystal Matt where you could do a parody on so many other things. But those are, there's some premises I'm working on. Well, maybe there's something about how you want to, you don't have a kid, but you want to dress your cat up like Jeffrey Dahmer, but you're only going to give her, like, you know what I mean? Like, you're only going to give her purified water stuff. I had a bit and it's too dated where I used to do stand up and it used to always kill

about Ann Geddes, the woman that would dress, because she doesn't, about you address the, um, the babies up like flowers and fruit. And I would always say is it would like, okay to do this with the elderly, like grandpa dressed up like a watermelon. And, and, But that's dated. That is so dated. No, that's funny. I think you can just keep doing that. Bring her back. Maybe I'll bring her back. But thank you for giving me confidence. See, this is, this, I never intended or thought in a gazillion years. I do not feel comfortable normally opening my life up at all on this show unless it's something that's related to maybe late in a little bit. But I can't believe that this has been, you're my life coach now, I guess, for the last.

I'm sorry. I'm really sorry. That is really sucks for you. I will say, I think that you, I think that if, I think that if, I think that if you go to a couple of open mics, I think even just, I think it will give you confidence in your own. Maybe it will, but the open mic place is back in the day, or were some of the most toxic, most miserable. But I think that's why you shouldn't do it for a year. But I think it's like, you will feel good about your imagination. where you're like, oh, look at these people that are doing it, and they, they're talking about terrible things. Yeah.

I also feel like I'm too old to be doing stand-up. No, no, no, no. No. Okay. No. But I think it's like the one advantage, one main advantage of becoming older in the scene, in comedy, is just having a sense of distance and perspective, where you're like, I have a wife. I have a kid.

Yeah. I have a podcast. I'm doing fine. I definitely have the stories. And then last thing, because I've got to let you go is, since you're being my life coach, I have a book coming out on October 21st, which everyone should pre-order. It's from Penguin Random House, which I know that you've worked with. It's a dutton books. It's called Love Johnny Carson. And it's a book on Carson and the Tonight Show. I did a podcast for eight years. I've talked to over 400 people. You've had a book that came out. It's super successful. Do you have any advice for me at all? I think that, you know, stay on social media, promote it that way. That's good. And I would say that a lot of people feel, and myself included, like it's a little anticlimactic when the book comes out. Okay, that's good to know that I can prepare myself for that. And, you know, like I would go into bookstores being like, oh, am I going to see it?

It wouldn't be there. And I'd be like, okay, this is, I got to stop doing this to myself. And I think that you've got to just find a way to appreciate, not think of it like a gig, Not think of it like there's going to be a response. I think you have to understand that people take a long time to read books. And if they enjoy it, you might never see that. But that's something that you did. Do you read your reviews on Amazon?

No, I couldn't tell me I shouldn't do it. Don't do that. Stay away from good reads. Stay away. You have over 2,000 reviews on good reads. Block it. Block it. Block it.

Wouldn't that help yourself esteem a little bit of reads? No, somebody sent me one good reads review. It was, this is the dumbest fucking book I've ever read. And I said, why did you send me this? Why? My goodness, somebody sent that to you? Yeah, and that was what it was about my book. It was the dumbest book they'd ever read.

I really think that people think that if you're a public figure and you've been on television, that you're immune to feelings. I got so many feelings. It's pathetic. I got, one time we put out this Punderdome game and these four ladies reviewed it, they all whole, they were all looking nice. looking ladies all we're holding it with one hand thumbs down with the other i said i'm done looking at reviews i can't look at reviews anymore yeah there is something comforting i think if you're like a

tina fay that has no social media presence and she just says to people stay off the internet um it's tough put something out there artistically and it's sometimes so that that's your advice for me i i will absolutely i can't wait to read your book oh thank you i hope you like it yeah i i hope so i really appreciate it. It is one of those things I've been working on it for four years. And that was probably the hardest thing I think I've ever had to do with somebody that's ADHD that has never done a book before that has. It's amazing. I don't want to say I have as low confidence as you, but it's close. I mean, so I just was like, like, no one's going to like this and all this stuff. And it just like freaked out a lot for four years. People would say enjoy the process. I had a very hard time

enjoying the process. When you wrote your book, did you enjoy that process? I had the hardest time enjoying the process. Maybe if I was writing something more like that that wasn't about somebody. Yeah, I think you kind of owe it to like, there's a lot of people holding you accountable. Whereas with fiction, it's like, they're not really, they're like, okay, do what you can. Everybody has been telling me for years, I should write this Saturday Night Live memoir from when I used to go to the show and I would camp out and be pen pals with people in the cast. And it terrifies me. I tried to do it maybe 10 years as a book and I couldn't get one place to go for it but it's been so long and comedy's different i'm in a different place um creatively

and stuff well see how this one goes and then i guess yeah and then just forget try to forget that it was painful and then do it again did people in l.a have this anxiety i feel like people in l.a are just so relaxed and far removed is it a new york thing with us is there no i think they're there they're just yeah yeah this is this was actually um such such a helpful i just i never thought that like i never thought like um that you'd be like a life coach for me and i really appreciate it this was great i love talking to you it was i love talking to you it's been too too long that we've uh gotten to do this but um yeah it's just amazing how prolific you've been because i mean you have Comedy Central specials. I've been there. You had your comedy album, The Hits. You did Butterball,

Butterboy rather, your comedy show in Brooklyn for, was it seven years? Was it eight years? Something like that. Who are some of your surprise guest? Because once in a while, I would get told, you have to come to this alt show. I can't tell you who it's going to be. And then it's Gallup and Ackis comes out and does his monologue taste testing for Saturday Night Live. But who are some of those people that you couldn't tell we're going to be on the show that there were drop ends? A really good question. I don't remember any of it. But I I remember it was fun, and I love Mave, and I love Aparna, and I love Marianne and Don Will and Jordan Ashley. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of people that are great that I didn't, you know, we had some guest hosts.

It was great. But, yeah, I don't have been in the booth, beautiful, beautiful time. Pizza from Pizza Plus, love the pizza, juicy pizza. Yeah, you've done so much. It's amazing for somebody that's so. I think everybody has. That's kind of the nature of it. that's been so non-carey, that succeeded so wildly. And I know that you don't feel that you

have, but it's unbelievable everything that you've done. And I hope Fallon, they have you back because your segment went really, really well. So thank you for doing this. Thank you for having me. Thank you for my self-esteem and helping me. I wish you look. I wish you would love, Joe. Thanks for doing this. Thanks for listening. Please subscribe so you never miss an episode. On Apple podcast, please rate it and leave a review. sure to go to late-nighter.com for all your late-night TV news, and you can find my podcast at late-nighter.com forward slash podcasts. Have a wonderful week, and I'll see you next Tuesday.