Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Inside Late Night: Karen Chee

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

This week on LateNighter's Inside Late Night podcast, former Late Night with Seth Meyers writer Karen Chee joins Mark Malkoff to talk about her career in comedy.Make sure to follow us on social media (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@latenightercom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) and subscribe on all podcast platforms and YouTube ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@latenightercom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to never miss an episode!

From late-nighter.com, it's Inside Late night with Mark Malkoff. Hey, everybody, John Schneider, back here from Late Nider, setting you up for today's season finale of Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff, where Mark sits down with former Late Night with Seth Myers writer Karen Chee to talk to her about her career in comedy. We are so proud of all of the interviews that Mark has conducted this fall, and we're very excited to bring some more to you in 2026. So, of course, we will be back then. now enjoy Mark's conversation with Karen Cheat. Karen Cheap, thanks for talking with us. Oh, thank you for having me.

I can't believe that you are so young and loved Johnny Carson and got raised on Johnny Carson from your grandfather. You know, I wrote a book about Johnny Carson that's currently out, plug, plug, and it just came out. And there's just, it's hard. People under, I'd say 40 maybe don't know who that is or they've heard his name. But you were watching clips with your grandfather and watching Carson and Rickles? I was, yeah.

My grandpa and I are really close. And, yeah, he was a big Johnny Carson fan to the point that when we started watching, when he started showing me Johnny Carson, I realized a lot of his mannerisms when he speaks English. My grandpa primarily speaks Korean. But when he spoke in English, it was like almost a Johnny Carson kind of affectation where he, like, sometimes we'll to the H in words like white or something. And then so when I first sort of watching like clips of the Tonight Show, I was sort of like, oh, that guy's doing an impression of my grandpa. Do you have any clips of Carson that you really particularly like that stand out?

I know that you like watching with Rickles. If not, no worries. I loved watching him with Rickles. I remember watching a special that was like called Johnny Goes Home, I think. Yes. Where he goes back to. Yeah. So that is like a very standout memory because I,

I think he also talked about how he used to do, well, I haven't thought about this since so long. He used to do a lot of magic as a kid, and that was like his first performance and stuff. But I thought that was really, I thought it was so cool. I was, yeah, truly such a fan. Suddenly you're working in the same building Johnny worked at when he started the Tonight Show.

So you're 23, I believe. This is 2019 you got hired, right? At late 90, I was at Mires. How did you get hired? Did you do a packet? Did they find out about you? I know you were performing. and you were kind of a star in college and on the comedy scene,

and you were writing pieces in New Yorker. How did they find out about you? I just want to quickly say, I'm so impressed by the level of research you've done. No one has ever known about me having watched Johnny Carson already and led with that, so I'm very impressed. I'm trying to remember. Okay, I had been submitting packets to other late night shows,

and late night with Seth Myers' famous. never hiring new writers because it was like a good work environment so none of their writers left. So there was never a spot that was opening. But I had just submitted to a couple other late night shows. So I remember having packets that were quite fresh, if that makes sense. And then met a few of the Seth writers at the Golden Globes in January of 2019. And they were kind of like, oh, like they were so sweet. This is truly them being so generous. They went back. to late night and told the EPs that they met a writer who is kind of in the mix of potentially going to a different late night show. You guys should meet with her. But one of the best and kindest

things they did is they didn't tell me that. And so when I went in to meet with the people at late night with South Myers, I wasn't nervous at all because I didn't know it was a job interview. I think I came across like really balzy and like, oh, this kid doesn't think she needs this kind of thing, which is absolutely not the energy I would have had if I had known it was a job. What a gift. Did you sit down with Alex Bays and Mike Shoemaker? Is that who you met with initially? It was Alex Bays and Mike Shoemaker who I had obviously heard of and read their name in the credits of so many things, you know. And I would have, I was like only nervous in the way of like, oh, I'm meeting these people for the first time. But I didn't have the feeling I need to impress them. So I think I, I don't remember what it was, but I remember like accidentally maybe even teasing Alex Bays.

about something, which is crazy. And then a few minutes later, I remember, like, Seth walked in. And so I was talking with all three of them and being like, I was enjoying it because I was like, this is never going to happen to me in my life again. I'm never going to be in a room with these three people. I might as well have a nice chat and then go my own way. That detachment, Bill Murray talks about just being detached and in the moment and being elusive. It's hard sometimes to get there, but the fact that you got there. So did you get that meeting and get higher just based on working at the globes and they were impressed or did you have to hand in a packet? I handed in those two packets that I had just written for the other ones.

Oh, for the other ones. Yeah. And then I think they had also done their research of kind of finding stuff that I was writing for like the New Yorker or McSweeney's and so. So they had kind of done things. And then I was like, I have two packets written for other shows. Obviously the voices are different because the hosts are different. But like those were two very different hosts.

And so I was like, I'd just to prove that if I can do those two. but I really think they were kind of taking a huge leap of faith of, you know, hopefully this will work out. Every single person in that interaction for that equation to have worked out, I think was taking a huge chance and being very generous. It's unbelievable how proactive you were in terms of the Golden Globes. I don't know anyone else that got hired to write the Globes based on just tweeting at someone. What were your expectations? I mean, this was Sandra Owen. I believe Andy Sandberg. They were hosting together, correct? They were hosting together, yeah.

What were your expectations of any when you tweeted that you wanted to write for the globe? I don't think I had any expectations. I don't even know quite why I didn't. When I think about it now, I'm like, I would never do that now. That feels so embarrassing. You'd put yourself out there so boldly. But it maybe was just that I was 23 and thought, like,

no one's going to see this, you know, might as well. But then there was a person I was following on Twitter who was so kind and used to work with Andy Samburg. And I want to give her credit, but I also don't know if she wants me to like blow up her spot. But she very kindly saw my tweet. And I had also been posting a lot of like jokes every day. And then the like online stuff I was talking about like stand up things. And so I think she had sort of known of me about that. And then when I saw it was like, hey, I know Andy.

let me reach out and see if they're hiring. And so again, like, I don't know if it was Andy or if it was his team or somebody else, again, took a huge, very, very generous, you know, chance on me. And I was so grateful. Was that intimidating 17 writers all, you know, I mean, you fit in, obviously, but just the fact that you were younger and didn't have maybe as much experience as most of them, was that? How was that experience?

Oh, my gosh. I wish I remembered better. I mean, I feel I've such a bad memory, and this was 2019, so I'm trying to remember. It was like, I definitely was so intimidated. I had never done anything in that style before. So I'm trying to remember, but I think the summer or the year prior to that, I was working as a writer's assistant. So I kind of knew how a writer's room operated. But it wasn't in the style of a variety show. And, um, I do remember there being moments where they would ask for the writer assistant and I would like react. Like I thought it was me. But now. Yeah, I didn't. I was meeting almost all of the writers for the first time, I think. But everyone was so nice.

It was really cool to have my first job be with people who all knew what they were doing and really on top of it, but also very like polite and friendly. And so, yeah, I remember. being really fun, but also being so in over my head. And again, thinking like, this is the last cool thing that's ever going to happen to me. I might as well really enjoy it. Only good things happen. Where were you a writer's assistant previously? I was a writer's assistant for a show that ended up not getting picked up, which was the productress pilot. I don't know if it had a name beyond that, but it was a show that was getting developed at Comedy Central in New York. Okay. So your first day at Seth Myers or one of your first days. I think this is so funny. You're a huge fan of 30 Rock,

Tina Faye, Robert Carlock. It's a great show. So you love that TV show. You walk into the actual 30 Rock and then you see a cast member from 30 Rock and 30 Rock and that kind of like you were doing a double take. Yeah, that's, it's so true. I was a huge train of John Lutz. I still am and he was a writer at the show. And on 30 Rock, the show, he played Lutz named after himself. And so then seeing him and him being like, hi, I'm Lutz, which is what everybody called him at the show. I think I was very starstruck by him. But he's so nice and like so kind and very welcoming that I very quickly was like, oh, this is just a nice normal man, not a weird I was portrayed on the TV show. You did an interview. You said it took you about six months to get good. What were those six months like? Were you

doubting yourself? Was it intimidating? Did you have faith in yourself? Because you were writing jokes previously. You thought you were writing a lot of jokes and then you realized, I need to be writing way more than this. Yeah. Wow. Okay. I feel like you're, you're remembering this better than I am. It's a long time ago. I think, I know, anything before COVID has like left my brain. Sure. Yeah. I do remember taking a really long time to feel like I was on top of things there. And I don't know if I ever actually got good or on top of things. But compared to when I started, I do think about six months in I was like, oh, I feel the routine of it without having to double check what the schedule is or double check.

Have I done enough? Is this good enough? And I think maybe at six months and I had a good sense of like, what is a premise that, you know, would potentially make it all the way on the show versus a premise that I think is funny that might not be a fit, I guess. But I don't know, everybody at the show kind of true to its reputation was so, like, friendly and sweet and very welcoming. It starts at the top. Shoemakers is such a nice guy. And that's a bonus to have. I was going to ask, you did an interview. You mentioned that, I mean, you write in bulk, joke wise. And you said that, if you're lucky you get one to three jokes maybe in the show. Is that about right? Yeah, I think that's about right. Yeah. And I think if you get like two jokes on, I don't know if this is true for other

people. I feel like for me, I was like, oh my gosh, I did a tremendous job today. But I do think that was true for most of the writers. Yeah. So many good writers. Can you talk about Alex Bays a bit? Because Seth Meyer's called him the best joke writer in America. And I got to interview Bays. And it's like, it was unbelievable. He didn't know how to write a topical. joke and he kept submitting to Saturday Night Live to update for the two years did not get anything into updating just kept doing it and writing and eventually, you know, years later got hired and became so powerful as a joke writer. But what was that like? Did you take anything away from him learning wise? Oh, man. That's such a good question. He is truly, I mean, I fully agree with

Seth on that. He's so funny. And he's got such a good. sense of what is ripe, what, what is like ripe for comedy, like what area might be good to push more at kind of a thing if that makes sense. But I feel like Bays feels, you know how, I don't know if this is true for everybody else, but there is a kind of, in my mind, a comedy writer in a movie is someone who doesn't talk unless they have a perfect zinger. And then they're not like babbling, if that makes sense. I'm a huge babbler, as you can tell. But Alex Bays is truly like any time he talks, I remember thinking, like, that was the most concise way to say it. That was the funniest way to say it. Like, I feel like his brain is, it just operates very differently from

mine. So I was always in awe. Yeah. Were you initially on the monologue team? There were different teams, right, of writers? Is that correct? Yeah. I was, I was kind of just always on the monologue team. You, yeah, the writers were, I think, roughly split in half. And you can do other things. So sometimes monologue writers would write sketches. or sketchwriters would submit monologue jokes. But yeah, I think just to make sure there was enough material every night, people basically stuck to one primarily. So one primarily.

And then I was going to ask about a closer look. How was that put together? I know that there's a bunch of passes, correct? Does everyone just take a bunch of passes? The closer look is you're going to have to interview Sal Gentile about this. That's like he is like also a genius. who I, when I first joined, he was at the desk right next to mine. And I feel like the rest of the room was kind of goofing off a lot and like doing bits and Sal was always like truly research.

Do you think having a, they would have a test audience that would come in. That doesn't happen. I don't think any more since the pandemic, but they'd have an audience come in for, and Seth would come out and test the jokes and do a lot of jokes. Everything wouldn't work unnecessarily. Do you think that that help? Was that an advantage? Could you, now they don't do that. I mean, I'm guessing hopefully the quality is the same. Do you think that that was, in fact, helpful to have a test audience?

Yeah, I remember it being helpful. But I also truly trust that if they're like, we don't need to do it anymore, then they absolutely know what they're doing. But, yeah, I mostly just remember rehearsals being very fun because we all got to be in the studio together and see, you know, see it out loud, hear it out loud, and see what maybe we'll make it into the final show. Who are a few people that were guests on the show that you got to work with or go backstage and say hi to and take a photo with anybody that you were excited? That's a good question. We largely did not bother the guests for photos. I think that was kind of nobody, it was not a spoken rule.

Like you were definitely welcome to you, but I think no, we also didn't want to make any of the guests uncomfortable, you know, so everybody was very respectful of that. I'm trying to think, oh, when Megan Rapino was on the show, all the women, we all went in bulk to meet her. We were like, it feels like she might also not mind meeting a bunch of women who are huge fans. So we were very excited by that. That was so fun. And then I was a huge fan of an author named Jenny Offill, and she had had a book that just came out that I had just really loved. So I got to tell her that I loved her writing. But that one I was less nervous about it.

I feel like authors are less, you know, attacked in public. by fans in the way that maybe actors are. That's very cool. I think you might be the only person in comedy that, this is a good thing. Unfortunately, it was tragic, but that you got two concussions in one month. And that got you away from sports and that got you into comedy. I mean, you started going to improv shows. You started doing improv and that really launched everything.

Do you think that that is the catalyst that really got you into comedy? That's a good question. Again, you're going so far back to my history. I'm so impressed. I, that was my freshman year of high school. Yeah, you were doing soccer at Taekwondo and then you got two concussions in a month and you were done. They were like no more. Yeah.

I think, I mean, I really do think I would have found my way to comedy anyway because it's not like I was going to become a professional soccer player or anything. But it did sort of leave a large gap in my extracurricular schedule. I was like, well, I've always really been interested in doing more improv, so, you know, might as well do it now, kind of. But, yeah, I don't know. High school feels like truly an eternity ago. It was a long time ago. How did the Seth Myers that recurring? What does Karen know segment come about? Did you pitch it? Did someone else pitch it? I did not pitch that. That was Matt Goldich, who is a writer on the show, who is so funny and also a very good stand-up comic. I think he came up with it, and I can't remember if he told me about it before he pitched it. But there basically were just genuine instances in the writer's room where someone would mention something and I didn't know,

or I would mention something and they didn't know. And in both situations, either party would be very shocked at the lack of knowledge on the other side. So even when we were pitching it, even when he pitched it in the room to Seth and Shoemaker and stuff, And it was very funny, but I didn't think it would actually be on the show because it felt so internal and it felt so like only the writers, only we care because we know each other. If people don't know me, why would they care what I know or don't know? So I was genuinely very surprised, but also, you know, very grateful that it seemed to be of interest. And it was unscripted. I mean, what was that anxiety level like? Was that just exciting or is it a lot of pressure? You know, this is like all credit to Seth, truly, where I think if it were anyone aside from him, I would have been anxious out of my mind. But he is such a funny, like, performer, but also like such a supportive performer. Like he really makes the other person he's performing with Shine. And like you can tell that that is his goal. Like, and he, yeah. And so because of that, before the segment, even if I was nervous, I remember always thinking like, oh, I'm in such good, capable hands. Like, he's not going to make me look dumb. He's not going to make, like, let this not be funny. He's a funny person who's very

generous. He's not going to try and, you know, like pull a fast one on me or anything, you know. And so I feel, I felt very safe even though I did not know what was going to happen. When you would perform on the show sometimes, was that be something that you picture another writer? When you did Parasite, for example, when Parasite won an Oscar and you did a piece, was that something that you pitched and that you wrote? Or was that another somebody else? This is a good question. I have a vague memory of thinking like, should I pitch something for Parasite? And then Mike Shoemaker reaching out. Because I think I'd just been tweeting about the Oscars. Like, I was kind of going crazy online, like so excited. So I think Mike had seen my tweets and then message being like, if you wanted to, you know, you can say these things on the show. for the job that you work at, which was so kind. And I felt so grateful that he knew I kind of needed that invite.

And once he said that I felt very free to write it. And I remember another writer, Jenny Hagel was also so helpful about it. Because I think I also felt, I don't know why I felt this way. Probably just like a personal thing. But I kind of self-conscious about like pitching me on the show. You know what I mean? It's, you kind of have to have a little bit of like, I'm so great. I can take up time on a show that's hosted by someone else.

And so it was very helpful to have someone else be like, you can do it. And also here's another writer who's going to help you. And yeah, it was very, very sweet. I talked to one of the writers once on the show. And they were telling me. Who did she talk to you? I talked to Amber Ruffin a long time ago, and she was very, very nice. She's best.

Yeah. She told me, and I never heard this. on another TV show that you could even just bring a premise to Seth or just like beats and not have the thing completed. And he, I mean, skill set, he could just do it and kind of write it. But sometimes that would happen. Is that, did that happen with a lot? Or was that just once in a while? Or would you hand in finished pieces? That's what, that's what Amber told me. No, that's such a good point. I mean, I think one of the biggest perks of having, uh, the host be, of having him be the host is that he's such a good writer and he like, you know, was the head writer at S&L.

Absolutely. He has a skill set to take something like that. Yeah. Anytime you came with a sketch promise or like a sketch that you thought was finished and he's like, actually it could be ordered this way or here's a joke. And it was genuinely always very, very helpful. And I think because he came from that background as opposed to a purely performance background, there was a an intent of him being like like it didn't feel egotistical I guess it wasn't like what is something that could make Seth look amazing

it is what is something that is the funniest possible thing that we could do on the show so yeah yeah Amber's the best she's so great yeah it's just really nice was there a piece on set on late night what is a piece that you wish you came up with you were kind of envious that got on you're like I wish I would have thought of that that's so clever

this is such a good question I wish I had thought of things too. I haven't worked for late night in like two years. Yeah. I'm trying to think, I feel like anything, yeah, I mean, there were so many great, funny, weird things. Anything that like John Lutz was in. He's so, he's a funny man. He's so funny and he's so funny in a very, he makes it look so easy to, you know, just casually do a funny look or whatever. So anytime he did that, I was always like, oh, that's so cool. You're so talented. I fell that way about truly everybody, though. Like Amber, too, for sure.

Sure. To your knowledge, were you the only Seth writer that went to Harvard? I can't think of anybody else that. That's very common on comedy shows. Yeah. I don't know. We never, nobody really thought about what college we went to. But maybe, yeah, I don't know.

Yeah. Because you did comedy there. I know that you did. You were in an impromp group, the immediate gratification players. Wow. This is such a deal. Oh, I try. But when you were doing improv when you were in college, you were taking it seriously.

Because you were a history major, but at the same time, was this, your ambition was comedy? Is that what you kind of thought you'd be where you'd be? I think so. I think I always, I always knew I really liked it, but I really remember going to college with a very, trying to keep a very open mind of what I wanted to do. Because so many people had told me, like, the thing you want to do will change so many. times in college and that's a good thing. So just to kind of go with the flow. So I don't know if I had tunnel vision, but it did sort of, especially by the time I graduated,

become increasingly clear that this is the thing I wanted to give my best and first shot at. What was it like writing remotely from, you were in Korea, correct? And you were still writing for Seth, correct? Back to late night. Yeah. I, it was, it was good. It was interesting. I, so I was working for late night and then in June of 2020 after COVID had already broken out.

I basically, I flew to create because my grandma got very sick and thought I was only going to be there for like a couple weeks. And I think that's probably what I'd emailed Shoemaker saying like, hi, is it okay if I leave for like a week or two? Oh, actually, probably longer because of quarantine at the time. So whatever. I basically all is to say I only thought I was going to career for like a month maximum. And then ended up being there for over two years. And the really genuinely great thing that I'm so grateful for is that I got to keep working for late night throughout that whole time. So I never felt like there was no like struggle for work or like financially or like, oh no, what's happening

to my career? Am I giving up my career by being with my family? And so it felt like such a blessing to be able to do that. And it was also at the same time, such a weird headspace to be in where, like, there's an international pandemic going on. I'm living in South Korea. I'm surrounded by my family. I'm only speaking in Korean. And then at, like, I don't remember the time difference anymore, but like at one or two in the morning every night, I would start writing monologue jokes about US politics in English. So it was like a weird mental, you know, on top of COVID. So it was kind of crazy. But yeah, I remember that time in my life very fondly now. When you worked in the 30 Rock building, would you go over to Saturday Night Live at all? Because the studio is right down

the hall. Would you ever peek in much or not really? No, not really. It is like they are close by, but it is, like, it is a workplace. And so it's still like, you're still in your office and you're still working. You're not kind of, you know, moving around to other offices. Yeah. Yeah. It's just What was it like performing at Carnegie Hall? It was really fun. It was surreal. That was for a different show. That was for a show called Wait, Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me.

And that's truly such a fun radio show to get to do. And yeah, when I got that invite from them, I was like, this is never going to happen again. I was working on a show in L.A. at the time. And so I texted my boss being like, hi, could I possibly leave work a day early? because I to do a show at Carnegie Hall and I remember him being like what yeah go like that's a good excuse it's such a prestigious fun fun show I was going to ask about when you did when you went on Colbert's late show can you talk about that yes so that's when I was in college and I was an intern on the show and they were super great that was such a fun show to intern for and I'd been a huge fan of

the Colbert rapport and so just the idea of like getting to work in the same building as Stephen Colbert was like so, I was so starstruck. But yeah, everybody who was there was so kind and welcoming to all the interns. And yeah, I remember there was everybody was really like sweet. But specifically there's a writer there named Brian Stack who like went out of his way to memorize every intern's name. He's famous for that. Conan, that was what he was famous for.

And he is, people will say, the nicest human being. I mean, Mike Brum is really nice. I believe that. There's a lot of nice people over there. Adam Rupwager. I'm friends with a lot of people. But, yeah, Stack has that reputation for being amazing. He's so, so kind.

But yeah, that was like a true dream summer. Wow, it's so cool that you got to do that. What do you think of the current late night? Do you watch the shows? What do you think might be the future of late night if you had to cast? Oh, I don't know. This is something I've talked about with my. friends a bunch. I mean, I love late night as like an institution in a show and I think it's so

nice to have something that you can, you know, it's reliably on at a certain time every night and kind of helps you digest the news of the day. Like it's for me, but also I'm obviously super biased. I hope it continues on. I hope we continue having different shows so that, you know, there are different kind of voices and more people get to be guests on the shows and stuff. But I don't know. I feel like television is changing so fast and so quickly that anytime anybody gets any kind of job in it, I'm like, congratulations, that is a win. If you get choose between performing and writing, is there what some place that you lean either one of those or do you just like to do both? I do like to do both. I definitely lean towards writing, I think, right now. I'm, I've left late night a few years ago and I'm now working primarily as like a scripted comedy writer. And so yeah, it's the best. but I also, you know, would love to perform more.

Did you get to meet Ted Danson when you wrote for him? I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's so cool. Yeah. I remember I had a day job at the Colbert Report. He was one of the only guests. He'd be right before he did his interview, he's like, I'm so nervous. Why am I nervous? I'm like, you're Ted Danson.

But he was nice man. Yeah. Karen, thank you so much for talking with us. This was fun. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for listening. please subscribe so you never miss an episode. On Apple Podcasts, please rate it and leave a review.

Be sure to go to late-nighter.com for all your late-night TV news, and you can find my podcast at late-nighter.com forward slash podcasts. Have a wonderful week, and I'll see you next Tuesday.