Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Inside Late Night: Tommy Blacha

Episode Date: April 14, 2026

This week on Inside Late Night, Tommy Blacha looks back at his years writing for 'Late Night with Conan O’Brien,' where his offbeat sensibility helped produce memorable bits like Pimpbot and “Gaseous Wiener.” He also discusses bringing pro wrestling to late night, working on 'TV Funhouse,' and his role in Dwayne Johnson’s first 'Saturday Night Live' appearance.

from late-nighter.com, it's Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff. Welcome to Inside Late Night. I am Mark Malkoff. Today, we are going to talk to longtime Conan writer Tommy Blacha. Let's do it. Tommy Blacha, nice to see you. Nice to meet you. Nice to to see you. Nice to E meet you, etc., etc. I was at this panel years back and Conan O'Brien was there with I think Jeff Ross. I forget who else was there, but Conan was talking about packets, the writing submissions.

He used you as an example. And I found this interest, and he said there was almost nothing usable we could use on the show. But he used you as an example of there was a creative mind. But normally when people submit, it's stuff that they can use.

What was your submission? Like, you submitted twice, right? No, I didn't. I thought you submitted. when the show first was about to get on and then you did again like a like a year later or two once I think they just picked through the old stuff a year later. If I remember correctly, I'm not, I don't think I did. Well, here, here's a couple things. One, that it is a good conceptually a thing to do, I think is to kind of wow them with your weirdest. I remember Greg Cohen's pack. It was kind of like

that too. Like, no, we're not using this because it's a little bit of a mistake to be like, these are all ready to go. I don't know. It just doesn't seem as exciting or stick out. I'll tell you this. My first packet was, so I was roommates and good friends with Andy Richter and who was like hilariously said like, I guess they want to make me the co-host of this show.

But anyway, so it was kind of like, he was like out of all of us in Chicago. He like went out, you know, when this guttle butt was like, oh, this guy's taking over for. a letterman, what have you. And so at the time, you know, they said like, oh, it's, I didn't put things in a format like, oh, there's a guy at a desk or whatever. It kind of was just like, oh, it's a new late night show. So I just kind of went off the rails as far as stuff that I wanted to see. You know what

I mean? And my whole influence of being like, you know, weirdly non sequitored out by, you know, Monty Python was the first thing I saw that was like, oh, God, this is just, you know, it doesn't have to make sense. It doesn't have to fit in this form. format and also like I just you know kind of you know not quite an antisocial personality to the point of you know crime or anything but I kind of always felt like you know I just was so thrilled by seeing Amati python and things like that that were just kind of destroy you know the the regular format so I put in a bunch of shit like like that just that I wanted to see and I didn't really expect that I would be hired even at the time I was just like um uh I was an art school in Chicago and used to sell marijuana and make videos and do shit. And I wasn't really, like, I knew the whole comedic scene, all those people, you know, Kekner and all those in Andy and stuff and didn't really do a lot of improv comedy here and there. But I just more was like a social like big drinking buddy of everyone and and what have you. So I kind of never felt like, oh, this is going to be like,

oh, my hopes are up or anything like that. So it just freed me to be like, I don't know, just off the wall. This is what I'd like to see. So then it was, you know, the show started. And then I was almost kind of like, oh, it is going to be like a show with a guy behind a desk and a band. And we're, oh, okay. I really didn't.

At that time, it wasn't out there that that's what it was going to be. It just was like, you know, you know, different. Also, you just so much less information came through. You know, it wasn't like, there's the internet. What is it? Oh, we know everything before it starts. And then I guess a year into it, Marsh McCall, who took over from Smigel, said, like, oh, what about this packet? And he gave me the

endorsement. And then I just, it was great. Personally, I was in Chicago. And I had just like, I was like, what am I going to do? I can't sell marijuana all the time. I don't want to be an outlaw. Even though my life was like so nice, it would be like, I make 40 grand a year tax free in Chicago. I'm living the life of Riley. I'm playing on a soccer team doing all this stuff. But I'm like, I'm not doing my shit. I'm not being creative. I'm not, you know what I mean? Like, I got to buckle down somehow. And I was trying to make this movie get it funded and it just fell apart, which is a hard thing to do in, you know, 95. Like now like anyone, make a movie, sure, everyone's digitally easy. Then it wasn't. And I was like so, I never had a moment my life where I was so depressed. We're like, oh, this shit's all

falling apart. I don't know what I'm going to do. I really got to take stock of things. And then ring. It's Andy. Like, hey, I mean, I'm. want to hire you. And they're just like, like depression just bubble poof. I'm there. And and, and that was it. That was I believe 94, correct? Correct. Conan said that you got almost nothing on in the beginning. And Jonathan Groff said that they were getting a little nervous the first 12 week. What was going through your head? Were you panicking? What, why do you think you, because you became this person that Graf said, you were one of the funniest, if not the funniest in the room with the writers. So those 12 initial weeks, what was going on? It's like a lot of things

in life I found like, hooray, celebrate, you got it. And in my mind, you know, you think of like just all those little tropes when you're a kid like, here's the office. Ah, what now? But it's like, no, the pressure starts now. I can imagine anyone who's been drafted on a sports team or whatever is like, you know, unless you're, it's like, oh, here comes the pressure. So at first, and then fucking Andy, God bless him, was like, let's just go out to dinner. And then there was a couple times like, oh, everyone's going to midnight and like going out to dinner with Andy. And I'm like, this isn't going to fucking work. And then I almost went to this point.

We're like, well, what a great 13 week adventure in New York. You know, like I went out to New York for 13 weeks and it ain't going to happen because I just, well, I was. was like really creative and like I said that sort of I didn't know how to like fit into that that mold of writing and also just realizing like intrinsically like oh shit has to be short and has to be presentational and it was just like like tough thank god the editing was so inept back then like these old union editors because I because I went to film school so there was a couple things. I did a remote and there was like a, I just remember like, oh, this, this joke doesn't work in this remote. And I was like, oh, because the camera guy moved away because they were always like,

the camera's moving and just weird like stuff like that. And I was like, well, why don't you just take the audio and keep that shot and then slide the audio for the next question over and then you can keep the shot and then you just cut in the middle of the sentence and then it all, you know, works. And then it was like I was a genius like, who is this guy? So I was like, oh, thank God. it. There was such rudimentary, like, editing things and what have you. And I do remember the moment of, like, a couple things that I was really good at that really made me go, oh, I'm going to be able to stay. One was a bit called actual items, which I think was, like, started by Louis C.K. And basically, it was the funnest thing ever to write. It was, you get all these, like, Sunday papers from all across the country. And you just look at ads. So it was like a take on Leno's, but Leno's were real. Like, you see this ad here? That's weird.

But you'd just make up absolutely fantastical, odd things, you know, and you'd be able to put, and then you had a graphics department, you'd go out. And so I could whip those out really good. So that was like one thing I first, I kind of got in charge with and then came, you know, with a stack of them with your like post-its. And then it was like, oh, these are real. And they could be really off the wall, really odd, dark and funny. So that was the first thing like, oh, oh, okay.

yeah like oh my god half of them are mine that was like the first thing like okay he can do that the autistic weirdo can do that and then i remember it was like i pitched uh different directors directed late night that didn't work out and one of them are just like why can't we get a squib and shoot andy with blood like an action director did it and it was really like kind of like exciting and fun and i don't think that kind of was a big thing where it's like oh that opened up like a lot of like weird stuff to do. And that, that moment kind of gave me like a reprieve like,

oh, yeah, okay, let me see how I can shoehorn this weirdness. And then the, the relationship developed where like, I understood like, oh,

Conan, you can't be as, you know, like us, like, or like in my mindset, like just go off the rails and fuck the corporation. And be so fucking weird and,

you know, and kind of be antagonistic towards the audience. Because that's fun. Because that was kind of Monty Python in a way where they had a certain sort of freedom and almost antagonism towards the audience, if you will, or things like that. So it's kind of like, oh, how can I do that within reason? And then I found just in the room, it was fun to just kind of be in that. Thank God it was that kind of show because you could not get anything on, but you could contribute a couple endings to other people's stuff. There was such a camaraderie.

It wasn't like, this is yours, this is yours, this is yours. this is yours. It was so much stuff, you know, you think three to four comedy acts a show, plus some that have like multiple segments, you know, there's such a workload that, you know, when you're getting together, like, oh, I gave you your ending. So when you're feeling low and you're not pitching stuff, you'd be like, oh, I save that or I help that. And vice versa. People, you know, came on board with your stuff. So that I was good at riffing and just, you know, being weird in the room. And then often, like, I found like even through my whole career like, oh, you can you can pitch a lot of stuff that's way too weird, that's way too dark, but it still keeps the energy of the room going. You know what I mean?

When you're really like late and I found that working on sitcoms or whatever, but someone else can kind of like be inspired by that or smooth the weird darkness off of it. So it isn't this. And then it has to be like the proper show to like welcome at or else you're like, oh, this, who's this guy? just fucking stirring the pot and being weird. It's like, no, there's value in consistently being energetic, consistently plugging in. And part of that is, you know, I feel like a comedy mind's almost like a criminal mind in a way

because it's always like searching for something incongruous. So I'm always like even fucking with the format and the show while you're working on it. Like, you know, oh, fuck this or that's, you know what I mean? But still just keeping that kind of energy. alive and that's why that show was like so thank god i i landed there early it really they just made all these like intrinsic values came through and like learning how to like be in a room and writing and like oh okay you know what i mean and not you know get fucking with something to the point where it's like you're not being counterproductive you're still helping and that really

frankly is a big part of Conan o'brien's personal ethos whether he likes to believe it or not. He's tortured like, I'm sure he's hosting the Oscars halfway. Oh, this ridiculous bullshit. You know, thankless, horrible thing. But then he's often really great when he has that, you know, kind of like that spark of cynicism or whatever,

which everyone needs, which he, you know, he has and uses as a fuel source, if you will. So all those things kind of came to bear where it's like, oh, this is great. And then like, oh, I feel I can really, you know, excel here without sometimes necessarily, you know, plugging into all the regular stuff, so to speak. Pimpot was your creation, correct?

And if so, was that just kind of like a throwaway? You didn't think it had like much legs? Like it would recur? Everything is a throwaway. They get a lot of mileage out of Pimpot, though. Oh, absolutely. Well, you got to look at it like this. I think of everything like you never,

it's the kiss of death to be like, this is going to have legs and, you know, this will be, you know, this is a franchise, which is the horror of development in TV all the time. It's like,

so basically what worked about that, we had these great, whether it was like new fall characters, new spring characters, just an excuse to bring out, like, make new weird characters. And so I just always look at it like a list.

I'll just come up with new ones. And you see what happened. You know, like the gaseous wiener, how would that stick? But Pimpot was basically, really one of those things where you sit and like, oh my God, you think, but it was like one sentence where I just said, how about a Pimp robot that, I remember, brings the dynamic flare of a 70s

pimp with the old reliable sensibilities of a 50s robot, you know, with like that old, like, you know, clunky sort of a robot. And like that alone was like, which is always good. It's like, if you can have one sentence that you always go back to, like, for anyone who wrote for Pimpot after, what is it? Oh, it's that. And then like, and then they make the suit so fast, like the talented, you know, people there. I remember even his mouth was like one of, you know, those vegetable strainers that are like a, or steamers that are like an aperture that shouldn't sign. Yeah, that was the mouth. She really looked at it. But what you're saying, it's funny, like that costume then just had to be constantly be repaired.

Because it's not thought of like, oh, this is going to come back. Yeah. It's like, we just make it work. And then like Gashis Weiner was a successful thing, too, was just this crummy old foam rubber thing that got so much mileage. Then one time they made like, oh, we're going to make this manatee. That's really an asshole, but it's like a mascot, but it looks like a friendly mascot. And that costume costs like four grand or something.

But it was like this smiling manatee. So it would have been great for a minor league baseball team, whatever. Hi kids, I'm the manatee. But to come out, like, it just communically never work. Because like, just the interchange, you know, was like, oh, he's an asshole, but he's smiling. It was just like, yeah, it doesn't work. So you'd always go back there and you'd see these ragged old, constantly being repaired, Pimpot and Gassious Wiener hanging next to the pristine, super expensive manatee that's like, yeah, that just sits there. So Jim Leland, he was a manager for the Pirates, he would actually smoke in the dugout. He was one of the people.

they would catch him smoking. What were the circumstances that he, did he want to fight you or somebody on the show? What happened? This was amazing. And then Jim Leland became the manager of my beloved Detroit Tigers and is a personal icon to me. So at the time he was managing the pirates.

They were in town playing the Mets and they just had lost a series, I guess. We were at, so this was 1995, I believe, at the Roseland Ballroom Kiss Convention, right? And this was before they put their makeup on again. So another, like, amazing, like, time. So the Kiss convention, basically was in the Roslamp Ball. It was people that had just Kiss souvenirs and shit and pictures, just like a little fan convention.

But Kiss showed up and played like a little, you know, acoustic set. And we got to go meet him and stuff. And like, oh, we're going to do remote. Yeah, and, like, is that the Roseland easy. So I had this T-shirt that actually Gene Simmons had given. me and I wore it and said, designed by Gene Simmons, which I said, kiss convention, 95. I was there. And on the back it said, fuck you, you blew it because you weren't there.

Something of this nature. So we all go like, let's all go to Gallagher Steakhouse right across the street. Andy is a wife, Sarah, some crew people, a couple interns. We're all like, oh, this is great. And we're sitting over there and this guy, two guys come over to old guys while I'm sitting there and my back's to them. And they kind of flank me. And I'm like, and they were kind of drunk.

And it's like, he goes, hey, you're sure it offends my wife. And I'm like, excuse me? And then I guess it was my back was to them. He goes, yeah, you're sure to fends my wife. And they were like standing over us. And then like Andy said something. I remember Andy's wife Sarah said, yeah, he said, he swore. He said, yeah, you're fucking sure, which friends my wife.

Because it said, fuck you. You blew it on the back. And I said, you know what? Sir, I was like, I'm sorry. I'll go get my jacket or get my shirt. shirt in the van out front. I had the shirt on. I was at some, you know, rock show. Didn't, didn't realize it had a profanity on it. Fine. And then he goes, you weren't at any fucking rock show. And I was like, what? I was like so stunned. And then everyone started chiming in.

And I'm like, all right. So I get up to go like change my shirt. I go outside to the van that's in front and I get a new shirt or something. I come back in. And they're sitting over there, these guys with their wives. And they start eyeballing me too. Like, are you eyeballing me? And I'm like, what the fuck is going on? And then there's like cross chatter between, you know, everyone's getting chippy across the tables. And the whole room is like, whoa, what's going on? And one of our interns, I remember said, like, that's Jim Leland.

I was like, oh, that's, I recognize him. He's the manager of the pirates. I think he thought, in retrospect, that I was a Mets fan because they were like, just had lost and he was under pressure, whatever, and said, fuck you, you blew it. So we're like, well, they, left all kinds of chirping. I'm like, this is fucking crazy.

The matre d comes over. Oh, it's not only that, but what's great is the matrily comes over and he's like, uh, the whole meal's on us and we're like, it was a lot of money. It was a lot of us. And I'm like, that's weird. And then the next day, I see it's in the page six. It was like teed off pirate

says buck off to fan or something. And it says I like, Andy Ricker Cohn into this fight. And I was like, I still have it somewhere. I was like, oh, this is awesome. And then even, you know, uh, Jeff Ross. Oh, that's great. Everyone's happy. Then I realized like, oh, Gallagher Steakhouse, they love this shit. Of course they put it in. It's like, we're a New York steakhouse, a manager of a baseball team getting to a scuffle. I was so naive. Like I was like, at first I'm like, oh, am I in trouble? And I'm like, no, this is the greatest thing.

It's just like a, no, you dummy, controversy, what have you. Then we used to go there constantly in that guy. I'd be, oh, how are you? And fabulous memory. I think out of all the Conan writers, you might have gotten more bookings on your suggestions. Because you were very influential with one in the professional wrestlers from the WWE, then the WWF on the show. So when you get someone like Gold Dust, Dustin Reynolds, does Dustin Reynolds come in as Gold Dust? Does he come to the studio dressed as that? Does he break character? Is he backstage before the show?

Is he himself with you? What was that like? And also as a fan to be around all these. these iconic people that you, like Vince McMahon and so forth, Yokozuna. Right. Poor sweet, Mark. It's not the K-Fave that, of the 70s. Yeah.

But, you know, he came in as, as Dustin, obviously, and his wife at the time, Terry, and even had his little girl with him. And then, you know, it was all very professional, like, yep, you know, do the deal. And that's, that's, I have a little, uh, background. with pro wrestling my brother years ago and stuff. So at the time, I knew more of like the lingo and what have you. It was kind of wizened up. Like now everyone knows it's kind of sad in my mind.

But no, he was, it was great. And, you know, we did the thing. And for me, I was always like, you got to have pro wrestlers. You got to remember, 1994, 95 wrestling was still like this kind of bane of intellectualism. Like, kind of like, oh, you don't believe that stuff. Do you? Like, no, of course not. But I viewed it as like it's a subculture.

It's a great American subculture. It's like punk rock. It's weird. It's a secret world and all that stuff. Yeah, Letterman refused to have them on. At a 1230 show, he would have them on. And then he thought, for whatever reason, it was too classy. He originally was not happy to have Dwayne Johnson on until he sat down and was an amazing

guest in Davis like, oh, this guy's fantastic and really smart. But there was a little bit of snobbery going on. Sure. places. And maybe a little PTSD of the Andy Kaufman stuff. Oh, maybe. I never know. Yeah. Well, that's what I always tell people. Like, Andy Kaufman stuff, like, that was just wrestling. Like, sure, he's a crossover genius, but he did just, you know, he loved the classic tropes that was wrestling and nothing he did within that structure was any different, you know.

When someone like Yucayuna came in, does he say to you, hi, I'm Rodney? Or is he in character at all or does he let you in before Conan? He's with Mr. Fuji. Again, is he like, hi, I'm Mr. Fuji or hi, I'm Harry, or how does he act with you? Rodney's very sweet and shy and very, you know, reserved, so to speak, you know, and they kind of like, that was like, you know, pretty insular. So, and, uh, yeah, Mr. Fuji's like Mr. Fuji. Yeah, he calls himself Mr. Fuji. But, you know, different guys. It's funny. And then I end up obviously working. in there for a long time. So you get someone like Triple H, people call them Hunter, call them Triple H or they call them Paul. You just like you get several names, you know.

Can you please tell us about March of 2000 when you and Vince McMahon show up to see Lauren Michaels on the 17th floor of 30 Rockefeller Plaza? This was highly unusual for somebody that was going to be writing to sit down with Lauren, but you and Vince, what was that encounter like? well a little it was the greatest encounter a little preface it was so I was working for wrestling I knew no people at

SNL from being in the building and what have you and then I was approached to be like you should be a guest writer for when the rocks there fine so we have the initial meeting and Lauren is like I want you know some of the other wrestlers to come and maybe get physical with a chair and all this stuff

and in my mind I'm like well you know whatever you think they take that shit seriously you're not going to want them to come over and take over SNL because it isn't you know so it kind of like we're negotiating like oh how can we do both you know which I kind of wrote the opening segment which kind of helped both but so that first meeting I was like oh we should bring vinson and I kind of thought like you know even with the rock like let's bring vinson and let's have him smooth everything over and also he should have the line there's no one better to deliver live from New York for Saturday night and that'll make him happy. And it's true.

It can lie from it. It's like, okay, fine. So he comes in and he already has a chip on his shoulder. It's so funny. He's like, oh, where's that? He goes, tell me that Lauren Michaels, he's one of those chicken shit producers, isn't he? And I'm like, I don't know. I have very little interaction with the Vince.

So it was myself, Vince, Sandy Wernick was a huge agent and Lauren. Like, oh, they're going to meet and see how to facilitate, you know, what to do bringing in other people what have you so Lauren's eating right we come into and it's funny because I thought Vince was weird but in retrospect I think he was right and he's got you know like with a plate and everything it wasn't like a you know sandwich in a bag it was like he had in his you know he was eating in his office and it's like uh and Vince kind of thought oh that's a power mover or something so Lauren starts to talk I think you know this and then And Vince, it was really surreal because I'm like, I'm between Lauren Michaels and Vince McMahon.

This is crazy. And he goes, right when he starts to talk, Vince would just interrupt him, you got to eat now? Like that loud. And I'm like, oh, this is crazy. And I remember it was around St. Patrick's Day. For some reason, there was all these like cloverleaf stickers and like a big, you know, sitting on the like a coffee table. Lauren Michaels would stop and then he would say I you know we want you know some of the guys to interact and what have you and uh and then while he's talking Vince takes one of these clover leaf stickers and just sticks it on the end of his nose and then just starts to like like and then Lauren just like stops talking and continues eating so he's ignoring Vince as Vince is like kind of glaring at him with a cloverlyfe sticker on his nose and I'm like oh this is fucking so then I start talking like well I think if we can have something where we facilitate you know, you know, kind of like, my idea was like, Vince is like telling the other rest was,

this is a big opportunity for us. So you leave the rock home tonight because they're going to like blast them with a chair and all that like in kind of like, it could be comedic. We have the big show in McFolly and then you then you kind of have a little thing in the beginning and then they peel off and then the rock has the show. So I'm kind of like explaining this. And then to my horror, they're like listening to me and I'm like, oh my God, why do I have the floor? But it all It all worked out great, but it was just, oh, just, gosh, why, why wasn't I wearing like GoPro glasses or something like? Whose decision was it you or Vince or Dwayne Johnson that no wrestling theme sketches other

than the opening and maybe the monologue, but do whatever, but no wrestling? I know that that was emphasized to SNL. Yeah. Well, that was, I would say me, but also just naturally because, like, as I was trying to explain in that moment. Like these storylines they all live on in their world and also it's a big thing to be like well I'm a chair

shot isn't really funny. You know what I mean? These kind of physical alterate that kind of stuff isn't funny. So I think Loram is a little like yeah we'll have some action and stuff and it's like it doesn't cross over the way you think. So that's when I in the opening I wrote where you know it's like the big

show was hiding a chair and Vince was like what do you got behind your bat? You know so it's of like, oh, this may sense. And then Triple H could be like, you know, all right, for tonight, you get a pass, you know, I'll beat up this guy. So it kind of just, it made sense, you know, to just have, there's your rub, there you explain it. And also, like, it's almost would be a detriment to everyone, Dwayne and everyone to be like,

oh, you have to rely on that kind of shit. You know what I mean? When it's like, because even I would say like, these guys do more live TV. They're so charismatic. believe me he's not going to be an inferior host believe me it's going to work great and it did obviously the ratings were yeah

ACDC I remember oh want to hear a good AC sure one of the one of the best premier moments of my life yeah so when you oftentimes when we worked at Conan the rehearsals would be like oh whatever band is playing and you

you'd run down like we were on the ninth floor offices and then I think SNL was on the eighth floor and then Our studio was on the sixth. I can't exactly remember. Yeah, 8H, I think. So we'd just like, because we'd hear in the stairwell, like, oh, you just could go down because you're a writer and you know,

like you're and watch rehearsals of bands or whoever are planned. You know, that's just like a fun thing to do. So we were there and, you know, watching ACDC do the run through. It was myself. It was like Triple H, Big Show, Vince. I think, maybe she can't, I can't remember, watching ACDC, right? So then ACDC starts to be like, oh, any, like any, they start calling for suggestions, like any suggestions.

I'm like, a whole lot of Rosie. And then like, they counted off. And I'm just like, oh, what the fuck? There's like five of us watching ACDC. And then Vince is going like this. And I'm just, they played like three songs to the point where they're like, guys, we got to go. Like they were just like calling off numbers, you know, like, yeah, play another one.

Get a private concert. When you went in when the rock hosted, normally the Saturday Night Live writers do not like when the host will bring in a guest writer, their own. Could you feel that energy at all from the Saturday Night Live writers that they weren't maybe thrilled to have you there? Or working at Conan, was it a little bit better, do you think, that they welcomed? It was fine. It was absolutely huge because I had known so many of them socially,

just from the building, the parties, and on and on. You know, so socially and professionally, so it was fine. And actually it was a little bit pretty good for asking questions. Like, could this guy do this? Of course. You know, so it was probably the most pleasurable and easy guest writing appearance ever for a guest writer. Other than the cold open when the rock hosted was, did you have your hand on anything else in that show with writing wise? No, it was just that.

That was enough. What was the read through like on Wednesday up and then the dress rehearsal and notes in between? what was that whole experience? Like what stands out? Other cast members or anything? Well, I remember like, you know, it's a little bit of the weirdness of S&L sometimes. So that comes one of those first meetings like,

you know, I remember Duane's saying something like, oh, I'd like to do something with Mary Catherine Gallagher. He liked that character. And then it was kind of like, oh, he doesn't know that that character's on the shelf for now. You know, whatever.

Like, like, you know, just that kind of stuff. or, you know, that classic, like, oh, the first meeting means nothing. And the pitches are fake or whatever. Yeah, Monday. Yeah, all that kind of business. So it was kind of just walking through that stuff. So pretty much I was facilitating just that opening. Because you got to remember, too, it wasn't like in retrospect, like, wow, so I wrote the opening and that was fine.

It was like, you know what I mean? There was pressure and it was like dicey and like, oh, that's going to, you know, set the tone. And then I was also dealing with, and Vince came in and like, we're going to do this. And okay. And so, you know, it, uh, it, you know, it went by in like two seconds. But for the most part, you know, as people peeled off, I kind of like, you know, because I think it, you know, Tina Faye like meet with her and be like, oh, yeah, he can do that. It was a lot of this.

You think he can like, you know, and I remember like the Superman sketch. I'm like, oh yeah, he'll be fun. You know, it was a lot of this. He'll be fine, which, which is so funny that Superman sketch, which is, uh, People saw it, which was like everyone obviously knew that Clark Kent was Superman, which is just the most amazing trope where I was like, I can't believe no one ever did that. Because even, you know, 1956, my brother who's older seven years old going like, how come they don't know? Superman's just Clark Kent with glasses.

So I was like, yeah, I go, he'll nail it. How was Duane Johnson before the show? Was he really nervous? This was one of the biggest career breaks of his life. obviously he's comfortable with the wrestling audience this is very different doing characters was he nervous was he excited what do you remember um leading up to him hosting the show that night no he's the fucking rock yeah some people have that you know well also i told the people there too it's like you got to realize that these guys not only like dress in shitty locker rooms and are

on the road and doing the most outrageous shit especially at that you know time was where the attitude era and like, oh, I got thrown through a plate glass window and had to do this and dealing with the injury, that this, as even though it was this opportunity, it wasn't like an actor like, oh, God, here it comes, it's coming up. It was like, and his schedule was like, oh, you're going to be in Baltimore, you're going to be here, and then you've got to go to New York, and then you've got two days to do this, and then you're going to do that, and then you're going back here for this pay-per-view was just maniacal. It's just, you know, four, five cities a week. So this almost, and I don't want to speak for him, was kind of like, oh, this is a little deviation. but, you know, just stuff was so stacked. And the thousands of hours of live TV, these guys do. The comfort level, I think, was so much different. And that was a big part of what I would tell everyone of like, oh, God, you know, because they would deal with even actors and movies and stuff. Like, I've been in a movie, but I've never done things live and, you know, all kinds of actors.

Oh, boy, this guy's really nervous. Oh, this guy's, you know, oh, he's having trouble. And I'm like, nah, he'll be fine. He's dealing with blocking. you know, physicality, so much TV production, so savvy,

you know, that's what I, and I would always say to like almost all wrestlers, I'm like, they're, you know, they're at such a high level

of doing this stuff and a comfort zone that you can't believe. And he absolutely was. He didn't, he didn't break a sweat, period. You wrote for pretend time,

right, Nick Swartson? Yes. I just saw him do an interview and he mentioned that the, he had the opportunity to do an additional season, but Comedy Central wanted Tom Giannis fired. He refused to sell out his friend.

So this show was over. Do you know why Comedy Central would have wanted Tom, a former Saturday Night Live, who did very well to be off that show? Dysfunction, probably, some sort of, I would say. The thing, you know, and I'll, boy, I'll just say this in some big ways.

I don't know what goes. on with like Comedy Central and internal politics, especially then. Frankly, I would say Comedy Central was subsidized by South Park and daily show and whatever. Everything else that they did, like almost like I called it Playing House. We're like, oh, yeah, we're developing these shows. And you know what I mean? And they would be speculative and monkey with stuff. You know, you have a cash flow from South Park who doesn't return any of the executive's calls for 20 years.

literally. And I don't know. Tom, Janice probably rubbed someone the wrong way. I would, if I had to guess probably something about whatever. You know, and then they just kicked it around. A preposterous, a preposterous thing. I thought that was big as neck. Absolutely. And I'm sure they were just munking with something like, yeah, this is good.

If only, you know, it's just like, you know, a bizarre phenomenon of like, you know, I would think almost like, you know, you read things about weird. religious families that torture someone like yeah they're out of favor yeah it's just like whatever they just kind of get under a thing like yeah Giannis is the problem oh you know which is just preposterous what was it like working on TV funhouse Robert smuggles I think you and Andy Breckman came up with the Oprah Stedman piece right yeah that was that was one of my favorite things of all time to ever do can you just discuss it? How did you come up with it?

Sure. Well, it was this easy. So TV Funhouse, incredible, things that people say, like, tough to work in the business with, you know, animation, Robert Smigel, kids. I love Robert, but yeah. It was, it was, you could see how he drove people

like crazy, but he was like, as far as like being a writer, you know, he just defend you to the end. And the stuff that he could get away with, in terms of just his personality and being a force of nature was just fucking amazing. Especially like, so I think of Comedy Central. That's probably why they all, you know, beat up on Giannis because they were like, well, we can't.

We try to say stuff to Smigel, and then he just kind of ignores us and goes the other day and then spends more money on the thing that we told them not to or whatever. It's just, he's brilliant. He's a force of nature. It was unbelievable. So Andy Breckman, I would say like oh he wants to do

this kind of like cartoon and you know you were all producing our own bits and like and the basic premise and met him in the office and he's like yeah the premise is kind of like you know Oprah Stedman doesn't want to sleep with Oprah so he has this like kind of like

fake life as a you know a secret agent but you know it's not real it's just to avoid consummating his relationship and I was like yeah this sounds amazing and then he's like oh what's yeah are you hungry we went across the street to the tgai Fridays we were our offices were it was amazing down in time square at the time in the old tin pan alley building so it was all like so oh there's an old jazz guy who's ate with some record label that's not going to be here long and this is where neil

diamond had an office and this you know just like in these weird little offices went across the street like 45 minutes just wrote it with andy breckman that's funny here's some beats here you know you know thanks and then like went and just produced it it was like premise rift with him at tgi fridays came home here it wrote it up here it is great did it so so fun just like uh amazing what else did you write on fun house that you're proud of you know is contributing to a lot of like things like directing uh uh the thing about the uh like the sesame street parody of like the The policeman does all these weird things and pushes the train and does that. It was like just the fun of like directing all that.

And it was a long time ago. The pride was also just like working on just being a puppeteer and doing all this stuff. And I just have to tell you a couple things because they're so like legendary. So you're sitting there. We had like all the animals, right? The Anna pals. And so we had these monitors, right? So you're being like a puppeteer.

And you're sitting on an apple crate. And then I may be like, oh, I have two of them. And in classic, amazing Robert Smigel, get it done madness. They have like, we're going to have a live goose, live pig mixed with puppets, right? And we're in like this church setting, right? And so we're, Dino and I are sitting like across from each other, like knee to knee. And we have these head bands with like the microphone here. And you're watching a monitor and you got your arms held up like this.

And then you're coming in with like, okay, I'm coming in with the fake goose, and then there's a real goose with the handler and all this stuff up here and real animals. Can you imagine how hard that is? And then to come in and like, and then you're looking at this monitor and like, okay, well, I turn the goose left. It's supposed to go right. And then you're doing the voices simultaneously. So we're like locked like this. And they're like, okay, the Annapel's come into church.

And then you just invariably like, oh, I turn the wrong way because my, okay, cut, do it again. And we're just holding our arms like this. This is tiring in Roberts. I don't know. What about this? So there's this big goose next to Dino. And it keeps looking down like it's pissed off, you know, and its asses right there. Because we're underneath, like there's slats in these bleachers.

And there's a jib camera up there. So everything like the, we're like underneath. So finally we do one. This goose turns around, looks at Dino, turns its ass and just lays this huge shit, right? And the goose shit is like a, it's like bird shit. inside an egg all viscous right and it went it went right on dino's head and it just goes down and we're as we're locked face to face and i'm watching this going like as i'm like being like i'm like i'm just like oh what's happening and dino's like oh gets this stuff off and then robert's like what's

going on and the director's like what are you doing and dino starts around like fuck this i'm out here and and then i would tell the story and i would be like i go it's a story so good you don't have to embellish it and he goes you underbellished it because the fuck the shit went in my mouth and i'm like oh i guess i left that up then he came back and he had like a plastic bag and his head and i just remember him like we're face to face he's doing it again and the director's going like oh we can hear the crinkling of that bag and d was like do fucking bad he was so like angry and it was just like we did it so what a fucking great experience just that was like ambitious madness

biting off more than you can chew real TV production puppets animations smigle absolutely genius what was it like working with Gallow Anaccus before he was really famous on late world that was on VH1 that was his late night show

yeah that was another one that was so wow what a drag that why went nowhere because it was just one of these things of like even in the bill boards they had, they didn't, I would always say, like, they don't even say it's a TV show. They just had this picture of Zach and this weird hat that said, like, the new face of late night, VH1. But you just been like, what does that mean? Is that just like a ad for, is VH1 having videos? Or, you know, just,

it was in a weird place, you know, and TV, I was like changing, like, what is cable? What is VH1? Are they going to compete? How did they market it? So the numbers were like terrible, but people like liked it in it, you know, and that invariably in that kind of show, like, like, it needs a while to catch on. What happened was someone was fired or whatever. It was a great position to be in. I've been in both. Like when you're sometimes you're the first horse out of the gate, you're like, oh, I don't know. And maybe get this guy out of here. Like probably they did with John, that's the problem because they needed to do something. You know what I mean? So then when you're the second one, like, let's fall on the part.

Get this guy. And you're like, oh, cool. They're going to listen to me. You know, because, but so I came in late, right, as like the head writer. And then I had gone out to dinner once with a bunch of people with Zach. I hadn't really met him. But we got along immediately, like, House on Fire. And he was like, oh, they're wanting me to do this and that and all this stuff. And it just was like, wasn't working. And it was like, yeah, you should just go do like crazy shit.

You know, we'll do guerrilla filmmaking, like, you know, Conan, whatever. And so the greatest thing happened where at first it was like, I don't know these people and, you know, and like, what's, happening and like so Zach and I went out with like let's just go out with the camera and do shit and we went to like a car wash and silver lake and just like hey how about you get like we found some weird guy and he should just start washing Zach like in the quarter car wash while he's talking to him just just weird off the wall shit you know like fun guerrilla filmmaking and he liked it and he came back and and I remember people were like you can't be doing this and we didn't have a a permit to do this it was all like oh I don't what's going on here Meanwhile, Brad Gray had come in because Zach was with Brillstein Gray. I never knew who Brad Gray was. I didn't meet him or I didn't know the legend of him. And he was there in the office.

And we were like showing some of this stuff and people were talking. And then Brad Gray started talking. He goes, he goes, yeah, I think, you know, you got to support Zach and what he wants to do. And, you know, like going out and doing fun off the wall, things like this. If that's it, you know, that's fine. And like, the world just changed. Just like the sun came up. Suddenly I'm like, all this resistance is just disappeared.

And then it was like, what do you need? I was like, this is bizarre. And then I'm like so. Yeah. And I had come from New York and just kind of like this last minute thing. Like that's a Conan writer. He's, and they're like, yeah, he gets along with him. Yeah, do weird.

That was like the marching orders. And suddenly it was like, oh, this is great. So we just did a bunch of off the wall stuff, utilized the whole set. You know, and then Zach was like, I want to buy a shitty convertible that we drive around and interview the guests. And, sure, let's interview the Jess and the cherry picker. You know, and it was the power of music television then was like, what kind of music you want to do? You can't use Ledz Up or Aerosmith, anything you want.

And then like, foo fighters were first guests. And so, you know, it was a blast. You know, I remember just being like, I remember Poison was on. And Brett Michaels was like a super, like just charismatic politician guy. I was like, yeah, Cici, today's kind of like crazy. I don't know if we want to interview this. And I'm like, well, we'll just tell them to shut up during the interview. And then we're like, yeah.

And we just made things in easy for people and fun and off the wall. And I like the show. And it just was one of those things. We're like, what are the numbers? You know, oh, my God, 1.1. Where today was like, 1.1. I know. It's a hit, you know.

But, you know, and that was it. When you were at Conan, who were. some people that you went backstage to say hi, non-professional wrestlers that you were just like, I can't believe I'm talking to them, photos, autographs, or anybody? You know, that's so funny because I will say you kind of, you don't know anyone until you meet him. So I was kind of had this separation like, oh, I'm a fan of that person, but I don't really know, oh, they're kind of a wet fish. I don't know anything about this person, but they're great. I remember the actor Peter Gallagher was like, I didn't really have.

any opinion of him and hanging out with him and like, oh, that guy's so fun and friendly and nice. But there was like a lot of things like James Coburn. We did like a thing where I just had to take for some bit. I had to take pictures of him. So hanging out with him. And I remember being a little kid and my brother was 10 years older like in like Flint. Like, oh, James Coburn's like the coolest guy ever. So there would be like things that would pop up like that.

Like, you know, Patty Smith. That was like crazy. I remember like, oh, this was the best. What incredible. So John Entwistle was coming on, bass player for The Who, right? And he was just going to like fit in with like, sit in with the band, you know,

what they did sometimes. So I was like, wow, that's crazy. I was like a big fan. And went, went down to like, you know, see that. And his, he wasn't there yet, but his guy was there with his like big huge bass. And it was like, oh, yeah, you want to look at it? Like, we have play guitar and stuff.

I was like, oh, yeah, look at that. And he's showing it to me. That's great. And then John N. Pustle came in, nice guy, hello. And it was fascinating to see how he, he didn't really run through the songs with the band. He's just kind of like, oh, what keys are you going to do? All right, I'll just see it. And I'll pick it up when you're there.

So it's like, wow, he could just sit in there. And then so all the music during the commercials was like the best part. It was like, oh, this is incredible. John N. Mussel going crazy. So then they had him sit down at the very last part of the show. He wasn't like a guess. It was more like before the credit roll. So there's these John N. Fussel fans, you know, in the audience.

And there's this one guy. He's like, Judge, he had like a CD, right? And I swear this is not apocryphal. It's the way this happened. He's like, and he's probably in his 40s. This guy like, I want to get his autograph, get his autograph. And then like the security guy was like off-duty cop. I remember him fondly.

And just as soon as he was like, take it easy. Like, watch that guy. He's a little, he's just antsy, right? So here at the end, John N-Wessel is. shows over credits are rolling that guy's like you know by the bleachers John Ansel comes off and he's like oh he's coming to the double doors

to the right and I'm standing right there this guy breaks three and he's like dodging security John John and they're like whoa like I don't know what's going on with this guy but he wants to get like an autograph right and he's got his his Sharpie and his

CD and he comes over and also I get pinned by this guy as security is forcing us by that double doors. And John Enfussle's right there. And then this guy's like, he's like grimacing because they're like, get out of it. And he's like, ah! And I'm right on me.

He's handing this CD in this fucking Sharpie. And John Enfelsel takes it. And he goes, he writes, sorry, John Enfussle. And then he hands it to me and he goes, shall I go out the back? Then he went out the back. And then this guy, like, they take him out. And then in that moment, in my, I gave, I gave. I panned the CD off to the guy.

I wish I would have kept the CD, you know, frankly, but it all like settled. And then I just realized like, oh my God, that was John Enwistle. He had like decades of just such madness. This whole like kerfuffle that explode in front of him was like, I won't even make the list of 10,000 things that happened to him. But it was just like, it was just so funny, the wherewithal to me, oh, sorry. Were there any guess that you try to pitch pitch bits? that refused to do it.

I know that Andy Griffith, writers were trying, and he was getting kind of tired of getting a little bit upset that they kept pitching him the same bit, and he's like, I'm not doing it. Was there anybody you could have convinced? Here's my remembrance of the Andy Griffiths, though, because I was still pretty new,

and the bit was, Andy Griffith was on promoting some made-for-TV movie, if I remember correctly, where he was an evil grandfather. And the thing was kind of like, oh, you're, you've never played a bad guy. How can Andy Griffith be evil? So our bit was like,

in response to those Ritz Cracker commercials that he was doing then, which were huge, we're like, mm, like a Ritz. And we just were going to put like terrible music on. I can't remember the bit. And then we had a young girl be like,

can I have two crackers? And then just like, you know, weird music was going to happen. And he's going to say, sure, I can't remember. But it was something similar. to be produced where it's like and he agreed to it like where it was like okay we got this and we just got this shot and he's okay fine and it was like uh it was in the side green room you know he's like okay and i just got it quickly it was one of those things we're like oh thank you and because we were doing like the bit was more about in the editing and marsh mccaw if i remember who was our head writer came down and he was kind of like checking like oh see if i got it right or whatever and he kind of said uh you know could we do it again because this this this it was whatever and

Andy Griffith just said just walk away son and he backed that's and that kind of became a legendary phrase you know that we could like bag on him like any hey we should do this just walk away son so I don't remember

anyone doing anything I'm sure there was generally I do remember it sucked because there was a bit we're like messing with the bands like a band would be on and then like the our band would be jealous and they would try to fuck with them and so like bands would agree to like okay like uh you know and smashing pumpkins were on and i remember i was like you know going to produce the bit and someone's like kept putting these like ball jokes in like some kind of uncle fester picture or something and i'm like oh i don't know these bald jokes whatever and i was like kind of like ah i don't know i don't like those or whatever like yeah well okay well we need jokes we'll pitch it and then I went down and pitch it to like Billy Corgan. It's like, oh, because I'm bald.

And I'm like, but I didn't want in the moment like, yeah, I know, I'm with you because I fucking said fuck those guys. But my producer had to, you know what I mean? I couldn't do that. So I was just like, oh, but, uh, did you do it? No. Yeah, they did the, I don't think there was that bald beat went on. And he, I did agree with him.

Is there any time that you wrote a joke that upset a public figure? I know Michael Bolton and Kelsey Grammer were, we're unhappy with. with two things that happened. I don't know what they were, but did that ever happen? I don't know if he did. I did a bit, one of my favorite things was satellite TV.

Oh, sure. You know, with just, you know, any kind of channel you could think of, and I think it was like, I think the bit was like Michael Bolton in 2010, or something like that.

And it was just inspired because we had a gold record on the wall for some shit or whatever. It was like a problem. I don't know and then just had like you know Michael but with like a old guy with like a comb over like all gnarly and then like came in and said you know and then like oh how's it going and then just got like a bagel and a coffee for you know he was trading in his gold albums for and it really just was like one of those things I don't know why you know you're not pitching it like oh Michael Bolton will be on the way out or it just was kind of like it could have been anyone but uh so I don't know if he saw that and didn't like he saw that and didn't like. Like it, I don't know, but frankly, stuff like that's just funny. Like, oh, good. Conan actually mentioned it on the show with Michael Bolton and did something about Michael Bolton was a softball fan.

But he mentioned Bolton in an interview was upset with Conan. He talked about it. It was just highly unusual for Conan. Well, you know what? Maybe that, because what happens is sometimes like, oh, yeah, Bolton, he's the brunt of jokes. You know, then like, okay, here's one. And then there's like a little tidal wave.

Maybe it was the tonnage of like, why am I? you know, and because part of that was like, it's just one of those things we're like, oh, you're slick and you got that amazing voice, but you're in the, we're weird in the zeitgeist. You're not like cool per se and whatever. You just fit into that category where like you get hammered. Todd Barry's joke. I hate, what is it? I hate Michael Bolton.

When I first heard Michael Bolton, I said to myself, I owe Barry Manilow an apology. That was Todd Barry's joke. That was a long time ago. I was going to ask friend of the show, Dan Pastornak, he got you on the phone with Jonathan Winners. What was that like? Oh, dear Lord. That was just, ah. So I was just saying how like, my dad was like, it was funny because I was talking about my dad saying like, my dad was like, you know, World War II, Battle of the Bulls, combat medic.

Really straight guy. didn't give a fuck about any kind of entertainment whatsoever except like Johnny Carson and Jonathan Winners and both of them had like this dark edge you know so I was just talking about like I'd always like watch Jonathan Winners with my dad and was young and just he had these like shows that we used to get on Canadian TV he was like wacky world of Jonathan Winters he'd just be in his addict like and it was always like oh here's a pair of sisters like I'm a little kid

getting my haircut and then he would kill the barber but it was always like this like dark you know, twist. And just, and I guess Pastor Nack's brother was doing a documentary something, and he's like, so I was working on this show, uh, well, IFC at the time, some kind of, uh, show with Pastor Nack. And he's like,

uh, hey, and he goes, it's a Jonathan Winters. And he's like, you know, or I, I can't remember he said it. And he's like, hey, is this Tommy? I, I've got a, I've got an old woman in the basement. You know what I'm doing? Do you want to know? Just like saying, oh, horrible dark shit.

Just like freak it out. And also like, and also I'm on like set so I need to be. And Pastor Nack was the executive. So it was one of those things where like, we need these questions answers. And I'd be like you, hold on.

I'm doing like this. And you're just doing a bit with you. Yeah. It was just remarkable. And I'm not going to disclose. I'll say this. I'm not going to disclose the ins and outs of the bit because it was so dark. It would just be like so horrible.

Yeah, because he was squeaking. clean normally when he did i got on the phone once with him with pastor neck and he um yeah it was unusual to hear him kind of swear a little bit of jonathan winters with well you know his old background i mean he's literally institutionalized yeah he was definitely had a lot of trouble but what a what a genius that guy is last question i was going to ask do you have any chris farley stories from before he got on saturday night live from the chicago days any farley yeah i have an amazing one yeah first time first time i ever laid eyes on was at this

a house party and those parties were crazy just you know Chicago power powerhouse drinking you know what I mean it was just you know it was like Kevin Mendorf

Andy Richter Dave Kekner and he was I can't remember I don't think it was his place somewhere people were walking down this hall and they would just like crack up and they would you know go by there was a bathtub and he was and he was like making these noises like and he'd look in like he would guess he was doing it for everyone and he was in the bathtub and he had his like pants down and he had like there was like a big antenna like sticking out of the crack of his ass like he probably found an antenna from an old radio or something and he was going like this and then you'd go go by and then he just had this antenna with his ass sticking out and then he would look at you and then he would look at you and the that famous way

later becomes iconic he would go, I'm a radio. I miss that guy. He was in my dream last night. Oh, how funny. I would just,

I would just see him. Yeah, I would just see him here and there when he was on like, you know, SNL and he was like, yeah, he was just

unbelievably funny and just the you know personified that whole Chicago thing and just like you know what a what a whirling dervish you know and uh

you know what can you say yeah just special talent nice very nice man I met him a bunch of times really nice man yeah his um I read about because I'm a Detroit or I follow the Detroit news his brother's the CEO of uh Ford I didn't know I knew there's

Kevin, there's John. I guess there's a lot of siblings. But yeah, I didn't know that. That's amazing. Brothers, and he's always quoted on things now. Like, you know, yeah. And gosh, I guess Matt Walsh used to impersonate his dad. Because I guess his dad was like a big, like 500-pound guy.

And Matt Walsh. And because he said, well, Farley would do the impersonation of his dad, like, excited having to get out of the chair. Like, oh, like, because you have to try three times. I can't do it, but he'd have to get momentum before he finally, like, I stood up out of the chair. So they know, yeah. And I went to the, I was at the S&L with my friend coming out for Andy Richter's first,

first marriage wedding. But when he did the guy down at the, oh, when he did motivational speaker, you were there for the Saturday night live tapings, Christina Applegate Midnight Oil, I believe. Yep. And then he went through the. the table. And that was so amazing live because, you know,

the studio is like they're sitting bleachers set, you know, in different ways. It's not like just a symmetrical place to know one that's been there. It's kind of like, oh, okay, they're going to have this set. It's going to be this one. Here's the main stage. And here's a set over here. Here's a set over here. So, you know, and the bleachers

are all set in a different way. The most amazing thing watching his costume changes. He was so amazingly entertaining and athletic in between because a bit would end and he'd race off and he'd jump over a couch and he'd like go like this and then he'd go back and they'd just descend on him

and then he'd have his new outfit and then he'd do another thing and then boom because he was in like half the sketches so there was so much behind the scenes. It was like wow, look at that guy. After the show, was it obvious when you talked to him that he knew that this sketch was going to be historic or then it crushed the motivational speaker when you were with him.

I'm guessing you were with him after the show or at the party. What were his spirits like? I'm not going to say that pretend that I was like having a one-on-one with him or anything like that. But I would imagine, from my perspective, you're probably like, who wants to talk about that now? Let's party. You know what I mean? I think he was just forward.

Sure. It was just another Saturday. It was another show. But, oh, man, he was so special. Tommy Blacho, thank you for doing this. I really appreciate this. Yeah, my pleasure. Yeah.

Now I'm going to think of all the shit I should have said. Great. Could we do another one in like a year? Yeah, I'll do another one in a year. Thanks for listening. Please subscribe so you never miss an episode. On Apple Podcasts, please rate it and leave a review. Be sure to go to late-nighter.com for all your late-night TV news.

And you can find my podcast at Late Nighter. com forward slash podcasts. Have a wonderful week, and I'll see you next Tuesday.